Making a case for WATCHMEN the FILM
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- 10 years after the initial release of the Watchmen adaptation, Troy & Dave revisit the polarizing film. Does it hold up? Was it ever great? Does it deserve its reputation? Let's find out together, shall we?
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IMPERIUS REX- Episode: 87
This is from someone who has only recently begun reading the comic and has seen the movie but I always dug Ozymandias' suit from the movie bc of the whole Schumacher batsuit elements. From what I remember from the film Veidt was selling figures of the Watchmen and was a very public figure, I liked the parallel between that and how Schumacher's batman was made to sell toys bc WB felt that Batman Returns was too dark. The suit tied together the overall vibe of the commercialization of superheroes that Veidt had in the film with his public identity and corporation.
Completely agree- I feel like that was a big aesthetic choice that they referenced during promotion, and then it was kind of never brought up again. Like- it's supposed to be goofy looking, and reflect the Schumacher films, given Watchmen's meta-narrative. And since it's a movie, it can critique comic-book movies as well. Not sure how many people catch that; they just think it's a lame suit.
I have to say that Hollis Mason’s death is probably my favorite scene from the movie. It gives an amazing feel of nostalgia for something that is only referenced earlier!!
Yep. Love it. I can't believe they cut it from the theatrical. One of the best moments. Giving that left hook to Captain Axis. You kidding me?!
In terms of the violence, the movie does a flip from the book. In the book, there's not a lot of graphic violence until the end when the squid blows up. In the movie, there's so much violence but in the end, people get vaporized and all you get is Silk Spectre and Dr. Manhattan looking at a big hole in the city.
LooneyToon22 complete agree.
@@ImperiusRex Also I agree about the music for the most part but the music during the scene where Silk Spectre meets Dan in the restaurant was awful.
LooneyToon22 wasn’t that 99 Res Balloons? Come on, that was insane genius to add that in!
Rorschach's voice/actor is one of the greatest things from this movie. And the Comedian's new mask, much better in my opinion.
Pudlord Tynan no love for the leather daddy mask?
@@ImperiusRex No. I always thought the mouth hole looked uncomfortable. Imagine getting food caught in that. Bleh.
Pudlord Tynan yeah. I think I’m the comic he went full mask to hide his scar. But he never struck me as being that vain. Or maybe just to hide his identity as a gov agent. Either way, that would’ve been a really odd costume to see on screen.
@@ImperiusRex to be fair it was the point. For the people in Watchmen the heroes are viewed as psycho sexual deviants and so Comedian with the bondage mask makes sense in a way.
This movie was actually my first introduction into Watchmen, I was about 8 when it first came out and I remember being intrigued by it, but I couldn't see it, as I was 8 and the movie was R rated. But a few years went by and I ended up watching it, reading the comic, and some more Alan Moore stuff, which has culminated into a love for Alan Moore's work that still burns today.
As for the movie itself, it's actually almost too good for its own good. It's very faithful, but adds its own spins which I think were also clever ways around funding as well as serving to the story.
Alan Moore usually gets meh adaptations, but this is not one of them.
Some Okie Dude hard agree. I’m gonna get blasted for this but I feel like BVS is another Snyder flick that is too smart for its own good. Oh man... I’m waiting for the backlash on this.
@@ImperiusRex I think BvS would've been better if they hadn't crammed so much stuff in there and just focused on Batman V Superman as the title suggested. Also, Batman doesn't kill people so there's that as well.
Some Okie Dude Batman doesn’t kill people. Except in every cinematic appearance to date. ;)
Doomsday clock sucks
Dave's custom is epic 🤣🤣
I was a fan and I would still say I am. I feel generally the same as you fellas. It worried me when we walked into the midnight showing and maybe eight people were there. I guess I was expecting more people to have shown up to Watchmen.
Didn't realise that there was an 'ultimate cut'! Blimey!😮 I'll have to check it out! I really think zack snyder gets some VERY undeserved negitivity as a director! I love his films overall! ( I think a Darren A adaptation would've been something else though! ) ☺👍
bigjobs67 yep. Aronofsky would’ve been amazing, but I feel he would’ve taken more liberties than Snyder did. However, he might’ve gone full-squid at the end, so who’s to say what would’ve turned out better.
@@ImperiusRex yeah! And probably added lashings of old testament bible stuff for good measure! I love his films! All completely bonkers! 🤔😆👍
Agreed. He's great. My personal favorite is The Fountain. So beautiful. And Black Swan is a great example of perfectionism leading to madness... kind of like Pi. And obviously Requiem is amazing, but after many watches in college, I can't see myself returning to that dismal pit any time soon.
@@ImperiusRex absolutely love the fountain. Definitely up there but perhaps just a shade outside my top ten (great sound track too!). I liked Noah also and saw Mother in the cinemas! Have you seen it? 🤔
@@bigjobs67 Yep. Saw Mother in the theater. It was a matinee showing. Me and a handful of older women that dragged their husbands, thinking it was a typical Jennifer Lawrence movie. They all left disappointed. I overheard the couple behind me angrily saying "Oh, so it was all a dream!" at the conclusion. Obviously they weren't the target audience.
Out of Snyders films this is one of the better ones but again, like with most of his work, its profound meta textual material through the lens of a 13 yr old boy. It misses most of if not all the nuance and subtlety of Watchmen in favor of “kickin ass” and “hard core coolness”! Like with BvS its like asking an adolescent to wax poetic on the nature of humanity, or God, when all they can think about are tits and violence. Like you said, this film works better because the surface layer of the source material fits Snyders aesthetic, though the heart of the piece and its point seems lost on him. My biggest gripe was how do you look at THIS film and say, “Hey, wanna do Superman!?” Lol Its like night and day! Great video guys!👍🏾
Langley M Neely well put. My stance on Snyder is, I appreciate that someone with such a keen visual eye Wants to make a profound superhero flick, even if it falls short. He’s trying. He’s not just going full (Michael) Bay-hem-
I think Snyder’s 300 was great and is what probably earned him the chance to direct Watchmen. However, he should have never been at the helm of a potential “shared” DC Universe. I agree that he would’ve been far better suited for darker more independent publications. I don’t think he actually knows much about comic history or how important continuity should or should not be altered. Lastly, and I’m probably in the minority on this, but I think Sucker Punch was the perfect vehicle for his brand of filmmaking and I love it.
Damnit Dave, my eyes. My eyes! This ties with the Sin City costume for the most damage done.
LostintheSound'16SP so there’s a new high water mark to beat. Noted.
Imperius Rex oh god
Thought the movie version was over all solid, but i do end up skimming through it to the better scenes. Best compliment i can give it is after seeing it in theaters it made me go out and finally read the comic.
Doomsday clock sucks
I watched the movie before I started reading comics. Eventually, I picked up the book and read it. I get that it’s a sacred work for comic fans and Alan Moore got screwed for the rights and I tend to think that it shouldn’t have been adapted, but Snyder kinda got to me when he said he’s fine if the movie just served as a commercial for the book. Because I might not have read it if I hadn’t discovered it from the movie, so maybe it was kinda worth it. Probably not. I dunno 🤷🏻♂️
i personally loved this movie it was really underrated in my book
Our interests overlap quite a bit. Because of this y'all convinced me to check out Marvelman.
Ghostbuster Dave, you are the quick to cross boss!
Sean Bradley I understand very little of this exchange, but I like the cut of your jib, Sean. Keep it up friend.
Imperial Rexus to the maxus
This was the most underrated movie I have ever seen and it’s nostalgic
GH Dave looking like he's about to ride off on a bicycle! Lmbo I like Watchmen film & obviously love the Graphic Novel.
Very underrated channel.
great video. If I didn't knew the comic, I would enjoy it, but Watchmen change the way I think comic books, so, the movie for me misses the satire and commentary about it original medium. I don't think its unfilmible, but inadaptable.
Have you read Enigma, by Milligan & Fegredo? One of my favourite writers.
greetings from Argentina.
Anibal Berrey been wanting to read Enigma. Got it on my shelf but haven’t read it yet. Been intrigued with Milligan’s writing as of late.
I hate to say it, but I only just watched the movie for the first time in 2018 after finally reading the comic. I've always loved everything superheroes growing up but for some reason this film passed me by. I loved it the first time I saw it, but I think I would have a difficult time returning a second time since it's so long...I'm curious whether Zach Snyder wanted to do a more accurate ending but some exec or something made him do a more "film friendly" version?
Personally, I think the movie ending is better than the comic ending. But with that said, I think Snyder completely misses the point to Watchmen whenever he talks about it, and the fact that he uses it as some sort of shield from critics who hated BvS, is maddening. Alan Moore pretty much hates Snyder's views on the superhero genre.
Hahahaha i really have too much fun watching you guys just discovered your channel new sub here. Cheers from Perú !! And yeah Ultimate Cut is the only way to see it, no problem seeing it one you saw Snyder Cut! Hahaha didn’t know about the rights stuff nice one.
The ending of the film is better than the comic. Imo, it made more narrative sense.
Three years after the ten year anniversery I want to say that I think the music works as an alienating effect. I don't think you're really supposed to take the music choices seriously but to make you be able to look at the events without emotional connection. It may be sort of a reach but I think the violence works for the same reason. I'm not sure Snyder is smart enough, or verbal enough, to talk about it, but I think the ambition is visible.
Also: Isn't the point of the Ozymandias nipples to imply he's gay? Rorchach mentions it at one point in the book - I don't remember if they kept the line in the movie.
It wouldn't be a real imperius rex episode if dave didn't put on some kinky shit.
It's in the contract.
Are you guys going to cover Irredeemable? I don't think Snyder would have been a good director for it. He does covert malice well, but straight up in your face hatred and malice like in Irredeemable should be left to someone else.
The Irredeemable universe stuff has been brought up before to chat about. Not quite sure where we fit in as of yet but it is on some docket somewhere.
@@troytothemax8767 to me it fits in with the watchmen legacy of deconstructing superheroes. One of the scariest and tense reading experiences I ever had. When they reached the midpoint in the comic when a certain someone gets batmaned, I sighed a sigh of relief and put it down and haven't picked it up since because of how intense everything is.
y y I think Irredeemable started great but really lost its drive about half way through. I’d be up for discussing it, but I wasn’t blown away with the conclusion.
@@ImperiusRex I kind of figured it would meander. I mean, after that midpoint, where can you go?
I hate to be that guy but 2 more things: I feel that Irredeemable could have been to comics what Spec Ops: The Line was to video games. The brutality in Irredeemable and the redemption arc in Incorruptable had me question violence's place in comics and had me question adopting pacifism. Great art is supposed to make you think and question like that! I can honestly say it changed my life.
Second, Qubit is the closest we will see The Doctor from Doctor Who in an Avengers/JLA style superteam, warts and all. That was genius on Mark Waid's part.
I wish the movie would have been told through the eyes of the 2 cops played by Bruce Willis and Dennis Leary
Please tell me you have pictures of Troy painted blue ? !? I too seen this movie before I read the comic . Loved the movie at the Time not as much these days .
When deciding to do WATCHMEN stuff throughout the year I searched for them, but couldn't find any. I even tried to get into an old Photobucket account and couldn't get in due to inactivity. I think they may have been MySpace exclusives. RIP.
Troy To The Max This makes me sad 😞 !!
The search continues ...
Where does he get those fabulous costumes?- the joker
I always view this movie through the guise of "This is what Watchmen would be without Alan Moore's Meta commentary on the genre & medium of Superhero comics." aka the dumbed down version. Cause Zack Snyder, despite what everyone who thinks BvS is as revelatory as Jesus thinks, is Michael Bay if he read comics growing up. I never view the film as a deconstruction of a genre or a medium. If it was the ending wouldn't be as narratively logical as the film (a simple double cross of a friend) & would have stayed as fucking weird as a Space Squid. But that Squid would've been made by film producers & Stan Winston effects people & gawt damned craft services to be a critique on the filmmaking medium like the comic Squid was designed by comic book writers/artists & mad scientists.
That said I do remember an interview from when the film was coming out & Snyder said the studio wanted to update it to now & make it about Iraq, to wit he called them crazy. So at least they got someone who while debatable whether or not he "got it" at least had reverence for the material enough to make a watchable movie...unlike some of his later works. 😉
Sam Anderson it’s funny how the Energy bomb that Veidt uses called the Squid (at least its acronym is) and when it is teleported there’s all these energy “legs” wiggling off it. It’s like he tried so hard but knew the studio would let him go full-squid.
@@ImperiusRex I've never caught that. Wondering if that's just in extended cuts. 🤔
Sam Anderson might be. They’ve all blended together for me at this point. If I went back and watched the theatrical cut I feel like I’d spend the whole movie waiting for stuff not to show up.
Where did you get the costume?
Amazon I believe
FIRST!
Please, tell me Dave is gay... asking for a friend 👀
Doomsday clock sucks
Doomsday clock sucks
There you have it.
@@ImperiusRex What?