Philips B2G81U vintage radio restoration . Simply years ahead now !!!
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- čas přidán 26. 05. 2023
- A project I have been working on for a couple of months now , this Philips valve radio is approx 65 years old ,lets take restoration to the next level and make it last another 65 years !
- Věda a technologie
This is like reading Practical Television back in the day. One learns so much, thank you. Valve screening explination was facinating.
The good old Television magazine, now long forgotten about, must be getting on for 10 years now since its demise.
Great video, Television magazine finished in 2008 finally I'm pretty sure,15 years ago now!
@@HughTVDX I had an advert in the last few issues as the editor rang me to say they were going bust and I wouldn't get paid so I suggested some free advertising .
A great pleasure to watch someone that knows their stuff.
Many thanks for that.
Michael it is wonderful to see a life times worth of skills covering valve, transistor and microchip technolgy being used by a super-skilled craftsman solving problems.
Sad that in the past every town would have had guys like you maintaining usable sets instead of the modern "throwaway" gear of today going to landfill.
Thank you so much for sharing your skills.
The capacitor/resistor formula was very usefull!
all these skills are going to be lost one day , as you say were in a throw away society and the people like me who do this sort of stuff are all getting older now .
the capacitor mod as a dropper was genius , never seen that before . and it cuts down the heat. my bush am radio is like a small room heater
The watless dropper is not a new idea, it's been around for a long time now, there was a Thorn TV set in the 60s that used the same principal to supply the valve heater chain, can't remember the model now, it could have been 850,950 or something like that.
Jobs a gud un mate ready for another 70 odd years of listening pleasure 👍👍
No reason why it shouldn't last another 70 now.
Thank you Michael, enjoyed watching an old time electronics professional.
Nothing like the old days for repairability, if only we could turn back time.
You, Sir, are a very clever man.
Thank you for sharing
Thankyou for that .
Wonderful effort Michael , the valve screening I have to confess was all new to me.
Only for pleasure, you couldn't do a job like this for a living.
@Michael Dranfield 😀 It always impresses me that you got the highest marks in the City and Guilds . I took the same exams and got credit passes and because I've been out of the trade since 1997 I have forgotten most of it ! . I can still do ohms law and capacitive reactance at a pinch !
Keep the videos coming...
That's the plan, maybe not as long as this one though next time!
@@michaeldranfield7140 The contents good so a long video is a bonus. The final finish is superb by the way.
I used to fix up and repair AC / DC sets just like this one years ago as a schoolboy, I really dont know how I have made it to 66 years old considering all the shocks I received in doing so 😊.
Same here but I dont tend to get shocks now working with modern equipment and I also use isolation transformers .
That was amazing. An you are right, nobody else does what you do. Great job!😊
Many thanks for watching
Excellent work, thanks for posting.
No problem , many thanks for watching , I wanted to do this project for a long time , another item to tick off my bucket list !
Love the channel. And great memories of growing up in the 70's. Really stunning how much tv's have changes. Getting to get my head around flat screens, but totally amaized how you work on these old sets!
I grew up in the 70 s repairing valve stuff so doing this video was a trip down memory lane for me too, more chance of repairing an old item than something made today.
@@michaeldranfield7140 Got a 32 out of a skip, had it broken down cleaned, totally in bits. Just got it going again. Although still a killer, not so much on these two flat panels wants to punch the arm off, unlike the old sets you're sorting. Can play about with an lcd screen lol
So Impressive Michael really fascinating to watch you
No problem , many thanks for watching .
I also did the same City & Guilds Colour TV course as you Michael and the EEB Practical Exam during the 1970s... It was refreshing to hear you say "My maths isn't that good" because mine wasn't either! I did struggle with the calculations (the common formulas in electronics, and there were quite a number of them, that had to be memorised) plus having to use a bloody Slide Rule didn't help me either! I had one of the very first Electronic Calculators in the 70s and my 'Course Tutor' wouldn't let me use it during exams ☹ had to use a Slide Rule or plain pen and paper! 😭
I had a calculator in the 70 s but back then you were not allowed to use them in school and it fell out of my blazer sleeve during a maths exam so I ended up bottom of the class .
Absolutely loved this build from start to finish 👍🏻🇬🇧
Many thanks for that, took a couple of months with my limited time and 85 video clips to make the video.
Excellent job Michael and great to watch 👍
Many thanks for that , glad you liked it .
Great job, I have made PCBs like that for various projects
its quite an easy way , I too have done this on a few projects .
I learned a different method of replicating a circuit board today thanks for sharing knowledge, plus it’s kinda fun !
Glad you liked it , I have been doing boards like this for a long time now , its quite an easy method .
Well that was a fascinating trip Mr D. thank you for an unusual restoration.
Absolutely Brilliant Michael 👍
Many thanks for that .
Super job save the old radio beautiful , thank you 🇮🇹.
took a while but got there in the end, many thanks for watching .
Personally, I have almost zero interest in AM radio, but I do appreciate your skill in reviving this radio. Well done, Michael, a very interesting video. Went down well with a cuppa T
I'm not much of a radio listener either, I find it very distracting when I'm working but this was an interesting project and something I had thought about doing for a long time.
absolutely fantastic video. I've used that method to copy boards before but I've never seen people doing it online - it must be a north England thing!
It works very well as long as you don't miss any tracks.
Beautiful resto Michael!
Many thanks for that.
Brilliant restoration!!
Many thanks for that .
A project that will live on and inspire, top job.
Many thanks for that, took quite a while to do this project, so will be some more shorter videos next time!!
Great video Michael, that turned out so well.
Took a while and 85 video clips, try something a bit easier next time!!
Very nice result, superb job!
Took a while but worth the effort.
Great video Michael, learn't a few tricks from this one !
Keep them coming !
Cheers, Baz
No problem , many thanks for watching .
A lot of work done there! Well done.
yes , its not something I do every day !
I really enjoyed watching this extremely interesting and educational video - thank you for sharing it with us. If only they made radios like that these days, the sound is far better than a modern radio and it's well worth the effort undertaking the restoration. You are very skilled to be able to undertake a complete restoration like this.
Such a great pity there are hardly any AM stations left in the UK still transmitting but it was a very enjoyable restoration .
Great job Michael, not bad for your first time 😉
Many thanks for that ,going to do a quicker video next time !
You sir are VERY impressive indeed, and really know your stuff! Nicely done.
this was awesome project
another item ticked of the bucket list !
Great job there Michael
Many thanks .
I have witnessed a miracle. Well done.
Its a project I wanted to do for a long time now , glad you liked it .
Nice work there, buddy! Really enjoyed the video, thank you.
Many thanks for that and watching ,.
This actual receiver appeared in New Zealand back in the day, Philips being one of the larger sellers here of receivers. It was classed as a AC/DC unit because for quite some time areas through the country weren't on the National Grid & Power was supplied by a local business from their DC system. By 1975 i'd an after school job in a Repair Shop, the owner could see i was already obsessed with electronics. That's when i 1st met one of these sets. It had suffered heat damage from that huge wire-wound tapped resistor & was a bit 'interesting' to work on on account it wasn't isolated from Mains. Would have been good to have added your updates to it too...
Makes two of us then having an obsession with electronics , the mighty Philips company is now largely gone and most stuff now displaying the Philips brand is nothing more than badge engineering .
That looked like so much fun to do. You restored that in beautiful condition 😊.
It was very enjoyable indeed, took a while to do though but we'll worth it.
Great video, so many very helpful ideas and information. Thank you.
Best radio video I have seen in a very long time. Brilliant.
Many thanks for that, I thought this would go down well, don't know anyone else who has done such a project.
@@michaeldranfield7140 you very well may have started a trend. 👍😊
HI Michael I just found your video and I like it, you are very god in tinkering with radios, and I am going to cep on locking at your videos, nice work 🙂.
I have always liked playing with valve radios ever since I was a kid , I wouldn't say I'm a big expert in them , I just love doing them .
A true labour of love i am speachless.10 out of 10!
85 video clips and 2 months to complete, not a job you could do for a living!!
Remains me of when learned to make circuitboard tracks with a waterproof felttip pen and
etching it in a solution of 1/3 hydrochloric acid, hydrogen peroxide and water.
Thanks for your videos, Cheers from Finland
Been making Pcbs with this same method since I was a kid, it's a tried and tested way but I have only used ferric chloride.
Your maths is good Mike, your just an engineer haha 😉 Absolutely awesome thanks a lot, well done epic work 🤟
Just an old engineer now , stuck in the past !
Ive been in the service game for years and also being familiar with the EF80 , but never noticed the screening disk in the bottom. That really takes me back as that's amazing as that's how I first started making CCT boards with paint . Amazing job well done brilliant video.
A lot more to valves than meets the eye and far more forgiving than transistors when something goes wrong.
@@michaeldranfield7140 Totaly agree.
I have worked on many valve radios and amps. I also never noticed the little disc in the bottom of the EF80 just shows you learn something new every day. I agree about valves being more forgiving than transistors when things go wrong, it must be that transistors are filled with magic smoke, and valves are completely empty being a vacuum. lol
@@michaeldranfield7140 Transistors only have a 10% tolerance hence they blow like crap with the slightest of faults, one simple mistake cost me a set of 10 darlington transistors in my sony str-db940 amplifier.
Very nice work Michael 👍
Many thanks for that.
Very nice Michael. The average person has no ideal how much work this is! 👍 I was surprised that you didn't cut the waste off first before stuffing though.
its very time consuming , however I have heard that if you boil the old cap in water the inside pops out very easy .
Marvellous video Michael.
Many thanks for that , glad you liked it .
A great video. Very informative and fantastic work. Thank you.
No problem, many thanks for watching.
I'm slipping-it took me six days to finally get around to this demonstration of your radio restoration skills-great job Michael!
This is a job you do out of passion , you couldn't do a restoration like this for a living , it took about 2 months with my limited spare time , many thanks for watching .
Also see: Jim Burns What David Tipton does to a cabinet, Jim does to a chassis!
Very enjoyable video, great project. You're going to need some sort of local transmitter/audiosender to have anything to listen to soon with all the MW/LW transmissions going off. Maybe a little Bluetooth receiver board inside to receive audio from the phone or an FM/DAB to Bluetooth device?
Just a thought the capacitive dropper, would it be a idea to add some sort of a safety circuit in case the capacitor became leaky and over ran the heaters.
Getting a problem now with radios, virtually no stations left, they do come alive a bit more after dark with foreign stations though. I did consider some sort of protection in the beginning but in the end decided against it as capacitors when used as a watless dropper always seem to fall in value than go short circuit.
Recreating the new board was a very interesting process. I like the way your method preserves much of the old look and feel. Very enjoyable! ---Mike
Fiberglass pcb is much more durable than SRBP and can be heater to a much higher temperature without damage so its an excellent choice for a pcb and it made an interesting project.
I have a couple of these sets, one is a Stella badged version, both work, but as yet unrestored. I like the idea of using a capacitive dropper, not only will the set run cooler, it will also use less electricity too!
I still maintain that the Bush DAC90A is one of the best AC/DC sets ever made, although introduced in 1950, they were still in production at the same time the Philips set was made.
I like the look of the Phillips over the DAC90 but I do have a couple of the Bush sets in my collection, a 90 and a 90a with different valves.
@@michaeldranfield7140 Yes, the original DAC90 was released in 1945, with all octal valves & a huge dropper resistor in a asbestos lined coffin, these sets ran so hot that the top of the back burns away, the cream versions used to develop stress cracks due to the heat from the dropper & output valve.
The later DAC90A released in 1950 was much improved with the introduction of the miniature U series valves that ran a lot cooler, also the dropper dissipated far less heat.
Also the wave change swapped position from the front to the side where the tuning knob was located on the earlier model, this was to eliminate the hand capacitance effect when tuning the set. These sets were massively popular sold in huge numbers & remain the most common collectable valve radio in the UK.
What I don't like about the Philips set & others of the period, was the introduction of the PCB, as your set shows that the board cooks with the heat from the valves.
This was even more of a problem with TV's that ran at higher temperatures, especially colour sets, I remember replacing many valve holders with longer pins to stand them off of the PCB, this was cured once valve & hybrid sets went to solid state, I remember the Thorn 2000, the first solid state colour set from 1968, another British first!
@@markpirateuk On the subject of Thorn sets I have now added a 3500 to my collection but not got round to looking at it yet . I have done a few of those DAC90s over the years and there a nice easy set to work on , mine are all brown though , I think the cream one is Highley collectable , SRBP has always been a bad choice for PCB , fiberglass is far better and can he heated to much higher temperatures without damage , might do a video soon on SRBP vs Fiberglass.
That's a piece of art micheal,
your very creative. I like how clean and tidy you drilled those holes.
I do know that it takes a lot of determination to want to be able to know about how to make these things.
This is a project I have wanted to do for a while now , finally got round to it .
Well done sir! Thanx Ken from gpt ms
No problem, many thanks for watching.
That's exactly how we started off making prototype PCB's for pre-amps and for VHF FM Pirate transmitters years ago ! Thanks for sharing Michael .Great quality and content as usual CHEERS
Works well , this is a technique I have been using for many years .
Epic, well done. Don't think I have ever seen anyone remake a PCB for a radio. I thought of Letraset for the capacitor marking (when you do the next one). I was half expecting you to produce a 3D printer and make the Philips badge.
I have used letraset before for making pcb s and it makes a good job, never thought of it for the capacitor though, making a new pcb for a radio has been on my bucket list for a while now.
the board chars 'cause they run the ucl82 so hard, at or even just over the maximum dissipation limit, which makes it prone to developing grid current!(its a good idea to reduce the value of the grid 1 resistor, and increase the cathode bias resistor) those ceramic caps almost never fail, never yet come across a bad one, the resistors do drift high but in most cases wont make any difference, ... as for the sockets, i had a 'related' model of these with all sockets bad, and replaced them with modern production types with no centre screening 'thing' , and was no problem at all ... one variant of this chassis uses a 800 ohm high impedance speaker directly in the anode circuit of the ucl82, and this one runs it at even higher anode current but anode voltage lower, again slightly over max. dissipation, worst being the anode voltage is a fair bit lower than the screen, which is supposedly not a good idea for power valves! these speakers are very commonly open circuit but one of mine was ok ....at the moment ... 'replacement fibreglass pcbs for these would be a very good idea, even more so one for the pye p115u 'piper' as these fry even more, again they run the output valve far too hard and those pcbs are usually in far worse state, even crumbling into pieces, the valve sockets in these also crumble, it was a known 'issue' with them,
Im going to have a look into this , I did have a quick look on the internet for the UCL82 which suggested the max anode voltage should be 170v but going to have a look at my valve data book to be sure because this would explain the high dissipation in the valve, the diagram gives the anode voltage as 205v .
@@michaeldranfield7140 yep, many things did run acdc valves at higher anode voltage, but lower anode current, philips was one notorious for it, the valve data depending whose data sometimes states 200 ish volts usage
You're an absolute wizard Michael
Very well done and an excellent video as usual. Many thanks. Ken
Making pcb s is something I have done since a small boy, I suppose this method is considered very old fashiond by today's standards but it does work very well.
Very very VERY nice! 🙂I'm into electronics for over 20 years and still learning from video's like yours.
I've been doing electronics for the best part of 50 years now and I'm still learning too!
Thank you for making this video. I didn't know how the screening worked on those valves or that the PCB became conductive, and what a low fuss way to make a replacement. Superb video and fantastic channel, keep up the good work.
Fibreglass makes a much more durable pcb material and can be heated to a lot higher temperature without risk of damage.
Could you leave me all your knowledge and experience in your will please Michael? I have been a total elecronophile ( I've just made up that word, it means a 'lover of electronics' ) all my life and have never done anything about it. Fascinating. Keep your delightful videos coming. - Johnny
Hoping to live a bit longer yet to pass on some more tips on CZcams!
i have 2 of those, one complete and good state, one rough, plus several 'related' models, same innards, different case
I have an old chassis knocking about but seemed to think that was a FM version ?
@@michaeldranfield7140 there was a MW/FM thing, b3g85u, i have 2 ,maybe that one? used normal acdc valve lineup, also just about overruns the UL84 !
Like the mods. I have just got a Bush VHF61 working. I relaxed the negative feedback by reducing the the 100nF to 22nF. Slight bass boost and equal at 1 kHz C68. It was broken anyway. C56 5uF made 250V polyester to EABC 80 FM ratio decoder. Plenty of space so why not? EL84 coupling capacitors also replaced.
think I have a VHF61 somewhere , at the moment there are still a few stations on FM but virtually all gone now on AM unfortunately .
What an awesome job. Great job making the printed circuit board. I just subscribed to your channel. Thank you for this video. 🙂
No problem, many thanks for watching.
Great job Michael, that set looks new and loved the upgrades ! Took me back to when I used to make my own pcbs but have never done it for a valve set.
I first started making PCB s as a kid , don't do it so much these days but its still good to keep your hand in .
@@michaeldranfield7140 Same here, back in the 70s whilst at school ordering stuff from advertisers in Practical Electronics and Exchange and Mart etc. The ferric chloride used to come in a plastic bag in the post ! Tracks were made with transfers or Dalo pens then I discovered photoresist aerosols and boards !
Champion job mate
Many thanks , I thought this video would go down well .
During the mid sixties I made some pcb with varnish. I had the chance to buy nitric acid to make the firsts. They took only 5 miutes to etch!
One of the reasons I favour nail varnish it doesn't dissolve if you leave the pcb too long in the ferric chloride, I find if you warm the ferric chloride first you can reduce the etching to 12 minutes, whereas cold would be 20 mins plus.
great job
Many thanks for that , took a while due to my limited spare time though .
Interesting - I recall trying to strip a similar board and finding Phillips had crimped the leads on the copper track side so they would not pull through!!
Some of the parts on this board were bent over making them slightly more difficult to remove , nothing crimped on here though .
Some PCB programs (KiCAD, etc) let you scan in and overlay old PCBs. Then redraw some tracks and a new PCB with SMD resistors and caps can be ordered, and arrive all placed. Get 5 and and BG281U owners have an easy restore job. Just as well I rarely do restores, as this is sacrilige to many!
sadly all this new technology is above my head , I'm too old fashioned to learn about designing pc boards on a computer .
@@michaeldranfield7140 There is the high chance nobody would buy a board after spending such effort!
You need a Dranfield badge - to make it your work.
That would be a good idea but my skills don't go as far as 3D printing.
capacitive dropper is a good idea for these😉 plus, they work reasonably well on 120v mains with the main heater and surge dropper shorted out, you could arrange a capacitor dropper for the whole set , not just heater, and it'll still work ok .with useful reduction in dissipation in the ucl82!. that black cap on the bottom is extremely unlikely to give trouble as only a few volts across it in use, some versions do have a later poly 'mustard' type like you fitted instead of the black pitch paper one, and some of these later ones are even mounted on top of the board, theres holes already there for it
you are quite right , the black cap is a cathode bypass capacitor and I did test the old one and it was ok but I just decided to replace it in case it went Leakey in the future.
@@michaeldranfield7140 very unlikely at that small voltage, even so, the cathode resistor is far lower than any leakage resistance, i'd have left it for originality, same with any waxy cathode decoupler or ac tone feedback cap...
Brill video m8, you could use copper tape for the screen trace you missed.
Yes you are correct, and I do have a roll of self adhesive copper foil but never even thought about it at the time.
Brilliant video Michael. Maybe adding a cathode bypass capacitor of around 47uF across R20 would boost the bass response too.
Possibley so, I did wonder about by passing the cathode resistor, not sure why they did not do this in the first place, but then Philips did do odd things.
great restoration , i would like to be abel to repair my old car tube radio's like the philips NX 624 or NDK 624 , greets from Belgium , Carl
Please keep that resistor somewhere inside the radio as a backup. You may need it.
I do keep the old parts when doing a restoration as its a part of the history .
some later versions have short spindle controls but a plastic 'extender' which a small push on knob then fits onto from the front , so almost impossible to contact anything even if the knobs are pulled off, and in these the dial is different with it 'captive' , non removable, engaging with the tuning gang via a peg and hole, these ones are direct drive , no reduction gear, so more difficult to tune
Didn't know that , all the ones I have seen have the two grub screw arrangement, I do have another radio like this somewhere but it has a different cosmetic look and its badged stellar, I think the Philips is more attractive though .
@@michaeldranfield7140 thats likely the model i have , very thin knobs, edgewise tuning control at the top right of the speaker grille thing st113u this is one with high impedance 800 ohm speaker directly in the anode circuit, almost always found to be open by now ...
@@michaeldranfield7140 there were many brand and cabinet variants that used this chassis or the high impedance speaker version 😉 their first? pcb model, 161U was awful, hardly any track area around the valve socket pins, my one had pretty much all joints dry ! and pain in the bum to get the pcb out
👍
Many thanks for watching.
Great idea using a capacitive dropper. They're commonplace nowadays. I wonder why they weren't used in the past. It could be down to cost, but I'm not sure. What do you think?
I think you are right , capacitive dropper is common place because capacitors are now so cheap .
Brilliant vid Michael. Extraordinary insight into the design of valve holders ! Watched your vid with Ojnoj on Sunday last j what a storage regime you have ! Absolutely amazing , heaven knows what treasures lie undiscovered in there, but your rebuild was pure class, well done .
We had a nice relaxed night out the day before sitting outside the pub till 12 pm ! I have a lot of treasures in here but cant get at them !
Fantastic video Michael as always, does the radio receive the news from 65 years ago. 😀
Cheers
Dave.
Sadly not, there is only a few UK stations still using AM and I can't see them transmitting for much longer.
A nice restoration. About it receiving stations though, Isn't there only like 2 stations left in the UK still using MW and LW? BBC Radio 4 on LW, and TalkSport on MW? And if you wanted to hear music on this radio, you' have to have your own low-power MW/AM transmitter.
Unfortunately this is right, sometimes after dark you can get a few continental stations , I have seen the low power transmitters but its not the same .
Very nice indeed, thanks for excellent video and concerns for safety. Are the RF coils the MF filters? What is the MF frequency 447 Khz or something else? Where was the tuning capacitor?
The tuning capacitor was still fastened to the front of the metal work , I didn't remove this item , the coils are the intermediate frequency coils , cant remember the IF frequency off the top of my head but its marked on the back of the chassis rail , I think it was 470 Khz.
Kindly make a video on changing if in philips tube radio giving knowledge which if belong to which side or valve. Thank you sir
What about going with the vacuum tubes made from 1957 which have a H+ of 12V and a B+ of 12V and use a LT700 center tapped loudspeaker transformer and run it of a 12V Wall Wart and will cut the heat down and stop the electrolytics drying out, if they Philips had used the Phillips/Raytheon vacuum tubes then it would be the size of transistor radio.
I think the tubes with the very low anode voltage were made for car radio use and while anything is possible this would have required a lot more modification .
Hi Michael
Loved your video. What a lot of work but well worth it . I just wondered if you could do a video or explain the watt less dropper you fitted. i followed the maths to the point where you calculated the capacitor to 2.9 uf. Now i understand that the phase would be reversed ( but on a heater chain would that matter ) .But dividing the capacitance by 2 lost me. I know you say that maths isn't your strong point but could you explain in laymans terms. i also repair vintage radios and think this method of dropping volts to the heaters is most preferable to a hot resistive dropper. and would like to understand the theory better so that i can also employ this method.
Many Thanks
Paul Dickinson
The exact formula for calculating the capacitive reactance in an AC circuit is much more complicated than just 1/ 2 x pie x f x c , you will find it by looking on the internet , my method just gives a pretty good approximation with minimal maths .
dangerous Radio without Main Transformer and U-Type Tubes. Risk of electric shock is very high!
This is why I work with isolation transformers.
Out of interest, do they use metric fasteners?
I dont know but I would think not .
@@michaeldranfield7140 I wondered at they were based in the Netherlands. I guess they had a UK factory back then.
you can get fine point 'paint' markers that'd be better for doing these, google 'edding 791' and 'edding 792' , as the original 'dalo' etch resist ink pens seem to be no longer made
I will have a look in partners where I got the other pens from, Dalo pen was my very first introduction into pcb making but could be a bit of a pain at times when too much ink cale out.
@@michaeldranfield7140 i have one original unused dalo pen left 😉 but these edding ones seem to use similar type ink so likely would work ok, although havent actually tried one yet
Someone in your audience could 3D print a badge, seeing how it’s no longer a Phillip, may I respectfully suggest a;
“Dranfield Phillips”
a proper and honest badge for your revised, re-engineered radio.
An excellent idea but I don't do 3Dprinting myself.
What! Tidy up you’ll never be able to find anything. When I’m forced to tidy up it takes ages to find anything 🤷🏻♂️
I know what you mean!!