Is this the best defense in the NBA?
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- čas přidán 28. 11. 2023
- The Orlando Magic have the second-best defensive rating in the league right now, which has spurned their hot start. In this enhanced segment from the Thinking Basketball podcast, Cody and Ben break down what makes the Magic defense so good, including their size, transition effort and great play from Jalen Suggs and Jonathan Isaac on that end.
-Full episode-
CZcams: • Do you believe in Magi...
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Twitter: @elgee35
Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
Stats courtesy:
www.pbpstats.com @bballport
www.basketball-reference.com
stats.nba.com
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Footage in this video is owned by the NBA and its partners. It is intended for critique and education. - Sport
Regarding Issac most of us Magic fans are assuming he’s on a minutes restriction due to all the injuries he’s had. I’m sure they’ll play him more once there’s some confidence in his health
the fall in the celtics game scared everyone on the court, the entire team looked scared. Which shows how much they all care for each other but also how important Isaac managing his body is as the season continues
I'm shocked they didn't mention that considering he was injured for almost three seasons
I think you meant orlando residents, theres no such thing as magic fans
Isaac was leading the DPOY race before his injury in his sophomore season, this man is one of the most naturally talented defender I've ever seen
they often miss stuff like this that’s off the court and context like this as they’re so focused on what they see on the floor. it’s kind of the niche of this podcast that sometimes they miss something but the ethos of analysis permeates
Isaac and Suggs are absolute menaces on D.
Incredibly fun to watch defense like this.
Pause
If Issac ever gets fully healthy imagine a lineup with both of them in the starting five with franz, palo & carter
@@bob_WRLDleague isn't ready for SG Franz 😤
@@monchochpweird ass kid
@@bob_WRLD theyd be winnin it all
I think they might want to have jonathan come back slowly to make sure he won't gat hurt that quickly again
JI has def earned more minutes but is being slowly ramped up due to the devastating injury history. They are being patient getting his minutes up. Coach Moseley has already said he’s a DPOY type player.
Isaac was leading the DPOY race before his injury in his sophomore season, this man is one of the most naturally talented defender I've ever seen
the game clips built into these podcast segments are absolutely fantastic
Love getting the game footage edited on top of the podcast. I am now consuming the same stuff twice. Can't get enough!
This magic team has been so much fun to watch. As a Magic stan, it’s been a long time coming
It's been great seeing Suggs develop -- he has always reminded me a bit of Lonzo, if Lonzo also was a football player growing up. Just an elite athlete and competitor.
The Magic trying to unite the nations through basketball. 🇮🇹🇩🇪🇺🇸🇬🇪
Jonathan Isaac's name dropped. I haven't heard anyone in NBA media say his name in like 3 years.
He’s been injured
99 defensive rating is DISGUSTING!!!
If only the sixers had him when Embiid rests
As a Bulls fan, I can't help but feel like a part of this team's success. Good job Orlando 👍🏽
I'm jumping on the Magic bandwagon, still a bulls fan but damn we are ASS
@@lukaout9548why continue being a fan of a sorry ass team.
Yes Weltman fleeced y’all in the Vooch trade. Thanks for Dell, Franz & Jett!
Haha good sport. I feel the pain bro. You’re a victim of a poorly managed team at the moment. Dealt with that in Orlando for a. Long time
The visuals on the screen really help see what youre explaining. Its dope af. 🙌
Joe Ingles is a guy I follow (because I’m an Aussie). Jeez he has a habit of ending up on pretty good teams. Coincidence?
BBIQ, at least for Jazz and Magic. It's like he has all these athletic tools around him, and he's just really good at maximising them.
It's like a reverse Draymond, where instead of elite reactive IQ on defence, he's just good at stirring the pot for his teammates.
@@blackjacktrial He fits in perfectly with the second unit. Joe has great vision and we are such a good cutting team he just finds the open guy. Not a surprise a guy like Moe is having such a good season, hes just feasting in the paint.
1:46 I’m a big Anthony Black fan. I’m a Hornets fan so I studied up on AB a bit last year when Charlotte was expected to draft him around 5 or 6 in a lot of Mocks. I thought he and Jet Howard would be great for the Magic this year. Jet hasn’t really been able to get on the floor but I’m glad to see Anthony Black playing well and contributing on both ends.
I hope Isaac becomes fully healthy and durable. This Magic team is gonna be so good if that happens. Only thing they're gonna be missing is a true point guard.
A Healthy Markelle Fultz?
I know people outside of the West Coast didn't watch fultz a lot in college, but if he ever gets healthy trust me you have an all star talent.
Great convo guys. When it comes to Issac's playing time, I agree his offense makes him a liability that other wings are not. Ingles, the Wagner brothers, and Paolo are just outright better at generating easier baskets right now. Another factor is probably Issac's injury history. When a player has missed two-plus years of time, it makes sense to bring him along very slowly. Still, it would be nice to at least see him play somewhere between 20-25 minutes consistently. Would love to get a sense of what he can do under a slightly heavier workload.
Keep it up the great content.
if anyone forgot, Magic beat Celtics back to back last season in the Garden
I love this current iteration of the Magic. I hope they can keep this pace up. Since this success is based on defense and efficient offense, I think it is
Honestly this is just a real team, once you get that synergy and chemistry down it opens up alot of defensive and offensive opportunities
Yes best defense and their offense is improved greatly now. They play at such a very high level being such an Unselfish team..the ball movement is very underrated.
YOUNG Orlando Magic ready to back playoffs atmosphere this season 💪🔥💪
It's like a perfect help the helper flying rotation on defense which demands a high level of communication and trust in one another, very impressive!
Just wanna say just found this channel this is fire. I literally watch every vid i can find
I can get behind the Magic's young defensive identity and how sustainable it can be even for playoffs. Will be curious to see if Isaac finally has a full enough season with the squad to prove he's part of the long term plan or some other teams instead. But even then the length and versatility from the guards and whoever they have at the big spot sets a high floor for their defensive play. Black and Suggs defense at perimeter are like an off brand Shaun Livingston and Marcus Smart (or Jrue).
Great content
Even when Issac was injured I was talking about how great a defensive talent he is. Was hoping the magic trade him so another team could profit from him. But glad he at least getting some acknowledging for what he can do.
Magic won’t need to trade him when they are currently second in the east
@@Bojomojobanks well that's obvious. I was referring to the previous years when he was hurt
@@Bojomojobanksnot for long
His value was very low when he was hurt. Compared to his upside it made sense to keep him. At this point they need to lock him up. Even with his injury history. By the playoffs he’s going to be playing 25 mins a night.
JI will play 25 mins during the playoffs! He’s much better offensively, but dude hasn’t really played in like 3 years. Look up bubble Isaac. He can do more, but for this current team he’s not asked to do those things.
Would have been interesting to see Chet there. Suggs, Black, Wagner, Isaac, Chet...tough, switchable defensive line-up.
They can barely score with Paolo. But a team having the league's best defensive and worst offense would certainly be interesting
worked for them when they stomped the league leading offense pacers!@@michaelahurt
I've watched more Orlando games in the past two seasons than any other team. I'm glad they are playing well. The transition game is what I enjoy the most. Especially when they hustle back on defense.... who knew that effort actually equated positive results
One thing about magic is they are young and hungry they are number 2 in the east right now it’s amazing
pretty soon number1 where the belong!
Thank you. I literally built a 2K team based around this and it is 100% true you just have so much length even though you might not have the height the length alone gets you steals and blocks.
Isn’t Length the same as height ? Well in context to what’s being said I think he means them the same here.
@@NouNou25That's what I thought too.
You’re always coming at me with these questions Thinking Basketball, I’m not for the interrogation bro
This guys voice just makes the basketball break down sound so much better
Damn I was hoping you would talk about how they shut down the pacers. I think that’s a recipe that other teams to slow down teams like the pacers.
Injured Markelle Fultz wasn't mentioned who is another great defender.
EPIC. LOVE ME A GOOD DEFENSE
Go Hogs! was bummed to see the Magic fan base criticizing his draft selection (though i get it, with many guards and poor team 3pt %). so glad Anthony Black was a leader at Arkansas as a freshman and a real class act. Glad he is adapting well and quickly
Im a heat fan but watching a occasional magic game has been fun
the comments seem to be getting it right when they say JI is getting a minutes restriction. As a magic fan I will take what i can get because just seeing him back on the court after a huge injury feels so good
Issac been one of my favorite under rated players for a while. I'd love to see him in Memphis
I was wondering how their record was so good this explains a lot good for them
Same here lol
8:25 I think everyone knows he is an elite defender, but 99 defensive rating? i mean what the actual fuck
That Orlando court is beautiful
I’m gonna say this bam needs a video.
I hoped for this Video.
Alright...im sold on the magic ❤❤❤❤
One thing to consider about Isaac is that he’s only guaranteed 7,6 of his 17,4 Million. Considering other bigs have been better offensively the Magic might want to keep playing them and save money on Isaac
I’ve been saying this for a while: the Magic and the Thunder are the models for what future NBA teams will look like. It’s like if you took the Warriors’ small ball, and kept all of those same skill sets, and then simply just made all of the players 2-3 inches taller or made their arms 3-4 inches longer
Well said. Also I love that both teams are taking their time to develop their players, building their teams the right way. No super team trades or free agent additions bs lol...
How about a fusion of the Pacers and the Magic?
I'd probably settle for Hield being traded to Magic, Maybe Fultz + Denver's '25 first with Fultz going to a third team maybe sending seconds back to Orlando?
To counter the offensive issues this team has with spacing, I really want to see JI play center in the world's tallest "small-ball" lineup
I hate to say it because I am a huge Fultz fan and I like WCJ, but I am a little worried when they come back into the rotation... MoGa (Moe + Goga) has been playing very well for us and although Black isnt a great scorer by any means hes FAR from a liability based off of hustle, IQ, and instincts. Then we have Suggs who is playing with as much confidence as I;ve ever seen from him....The only thing I ask is JI plays 60 games (probably wont happen so ill take 50 - hes already played more games this year then the 3 years prior combined). Even if its at 14-17 MPG
They have insane lengths and wing defenders that can play small ball center they would be problem for some team in the playoffs
The fact that this team can be a 50 win team and have no crazy offense is wild
It's also about matchup..magic match up really well against Boston.. However magic lack offense.. They don't have a go get me bucket guy in their lineup..And often young players struggle offensively in first few playoffs unless there is vet who can take pressure off of them offensively..
wagners disagree with u! and theyre champions!
Where’s a Twolves video?
I had Suggs as #1 trade chip before the season because he didn´t really fit in. His development over the last 3-4 month has been insane and he became their #1 perimeter defender while also being a solid combo-guard on offense. I don´t even want them to trade for a "star"-player. I rather see them developing into a solid unit
Well said!
0:06 AYO PAUSE!!!!! 😂😂😂
On the word versatile?
@@noelramirez1551obviously no
That's what she said last night
Suggs can be a proto-jrue holiday and isaac looks reminds me of covington
isaac is unlike anyone nba has seen before is why hes so valuable..covington who??
Why the radio silence on Minnesota? Even with the #1 record they can't get a video?
JI is on a minutes restriction. And he's currently out with an injury
0:06 Ayo Pause
I remember seeing a lot of people writing off suggs because of his size coming in, glad he is proving the doubter wrong
You need to check your memory or read better people.
He's a 6'4" 200 pound point guard. Size was one of his selling points.
The guy projected as a Jrue Holiday/Kyle Lowry type because of his build, attitude and toughness. The only real question was his shooting and whether he was a true PG like Lowry or a combo guy like Jrue. (The Lowry similarities are why everyone thought Toronto would take him)
@@michaelahurt i think the writer had him profiled as a sg which is why he thought the height would be a problem if the shooting didn't pan out. Which at the time was funny to me cause of the clutch shooting he demonstrated at Gonzaga
He did miss December last season with an injury so it took him awhile to get back up to speed till the 2nd half of the season. At that point was hearing rumblings about his court performances looking like Marcus Smart or Jrue Holiday. Limited playmaking, good enough offense but will use their size and versatility to defend guards and even tall big wings. Which is good player to have with a young team who needs that defensive identity.
Thank you for covering Orlando, it’s the low amount of coverage there getting
Suggs, Chet, Timberwolves. MINNESOTA KNOWS DEFENSE!
JI doesn’t play more mostly cuz of injuries
yay Magic but where my timberwolve love at
Best Magic team since Shaq & Penny
imagine if raps chose suggs and magic landed barnes instead to go with banchero, wagner and isaac on the wing
They 100% would've picked Scottie if the Raps had taken Suggs. Thing is then they probably wouldn't have chosen Franz and gone with a PG @ #8 instead.
They also may not have gotten the #1 pick the next year. So that lineup would likely never have materialized.
Minutes restriction is why Isaac’s minutes are so low. Trust me when I say every Magic coach, player or fan would love for him to play 30+ minutes. The team defense would be far and away number one.
LETS GO MAGIC. SUGGS WILL LOCK DOWN YOUR FAVORITE PLAYER'S FAVORITE PLAYER
JI isnt playing as much because Coach Mose is letting him bounce back after injury last year. easing him into it.
Magic are one of the more well-coached teams i've seen. Their dexensive intensity reminds me of when doc rivers was starting out.
Anthony Black and Jalen Suggs were top football recruits too. That's why they have that dog in them loll
"Extremely big and long" was what she said
This is what detroit is expecting now to their team
They are bringing Jonathan Isaac back slowly. Not playing him a ton of back to backs. His minutes should go up gradually through the season.
I'm 99% sure that the Magic are being cautious with Isaac. Everyone knows his injury history and last year when he came back, he got injured again.
Can't Jonathan play the 5? If he's inefficient shooting etc, use him as a rim roller.
How are they generating so many turnovers?
When you look at their defense they are great at three things:
1) Rebounding
2) Forced Turnovers
3) Opponent FT%
Obviously the first isn't going away and the last will regress to the mean, but how real are the dead ball turnovers (i.e. not steals)
Cause its not like they have some crazy shot profile or elite rim protection. Its really the FT, TO and not allowing offensive rebounds
you missed some bruh! THey lead the league in deflections and are top 5 in steals and number 1 in 2nd chance points after steals and turnovers! thats the reason why!
What don't you understand JI came back from a major injury. Regardless how he performs we want him for the LONG run. And playoff contention.. not him blowing his knee out again on a meaningless play in a meaningless city on a meaningless game where we up 12pts already. We don't need him playing more we need him playing. Period.
The only thing Isaac defends harder than the other team is Police Brutality.
And here I am almost forgetting Magic team exists 😂
Better remember now
They have been slowly picking up big and tall talents. It took awhile and netting them a top 1 talent in Banchero is a boost. But as Ben noted the team is big and has length. So they aren't going to get punked easily off screens and switches.
Issac plays not so much because of is injury history. He would play more if not his body would constantly betray him. When you look at him play, you see the defensive player of the year.
Isaac's knee ligaments are broken so he can't be more than a bench player. Sad as he was my second favourite player from the Tatum draft. I wish my Celtics tried to trade for him when he was down and out but there's still time to get him I hope.
yah he def would make yall contenders and yall would need isaac to get thru the magic!
The best defensive nba team would be one of the worst Euroleague
But y'all ain't ready for that convo tho
Nobody gives two shits about European basketball that's why all their best players play here in the NBA
The Heat needs a power forward. I want Jonathan Isaac if the Magic doesn't appreciate him.
Isaac is on an informal minutes restriction because he’s so fragile idk why the guys didn’t mention it
@@Jrage14 Oh, I know. And he would be competing with Banchero for minutes, since he doesn't like to play center. (And Orlando has three capable centers!) He'd need more playing time to develop his offense, maybe 24 minutes this year.
goga bidatze
saw someone describe this defense as a light skin version of the raptors 🤣
No its the wolves. And I'm definitely not just saying that because I'm from Minnesota and happy to have a solid team for once
Orl feels the same way man let’s just both be excited
I really believe the Magic are like one more decent piece away from being a playoff-caliber team. The East is still too top heavy for them to have a serious shot at the chip, but they're a surprisingly strong team and it feels like they're really starting to gel as a squad.
bro what, they are about to be 13-5...they are already a playoff caliber team🥱🥱🤦♂🤦♂
@@beanhoudinithere’s still 60 games to play
@@beanhoudiniHe probably meant a true contender who can go to the finals
he literally said playoff caliber team and the east is too top heavy, stop defending this casual@@to3sted248
Probably need a better center, everything else is pretty solid.
Isaac is nerlens 2.0
isn't there this one other defense
Get rid of Isaac . No way if we get to take off 17 mil of the books for the next year and a half that we wouldn’t do that.
Send him to the Hawks please. We need him.
If you actually pay attention as journalists. Isaac is just back off of missing 2.5 of 3 entire seasons.. he is not physically ready to play that load. He will start when he is physically able. He is the highest paid player on the entire team. But to not be able to do a simple research as to why escapes me.. he is simply on a continued minutes restriction as they bring him back safely due to all of his injuries.
They gottantrade fultz and issac for some veterans or a center
no need were stacked homie!
Isaac needs more minutes!
Idk but I know who's not. My rockets after last night 😢
Do u even watch basketball or make some exploration about the team you're trying to talk about? Isaack doesn't play more than 20 minutes not because of his offense its because he is on minutes restriction, because he has missed the last 2 years with injuries to different body parts and the team is taking a carful approach with him now
The best defense in the NBA is also not coincidentally the best record in the NBA.
Isaac should be starting center
He's been injured for like 3 years he's slowly coming back to playing shape