Can I Shoot 1 MOA All Day? (Bloke/Polenar Challenge Accepted!)
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- čas přidán 13. 05. 2024
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Bloke on the Range Challenge Video:
• Enter The 1 MOA All Da...
Bloke and Žiga have challenged us - and you! - to shoot a 1 MOA group on demand, with a non-benchrest sort of rifle. The idea is that a whole lot of people will happily insist that their regular hunting rifle will quite easily shoot 1 MOA all day long. Well, will it? Prove it! One minute of angle is a pretty impressive standard if you aren't talking about 3-shot groups, called flyers, do-overs, and mulligans. So let's see if I can meet the challenge.
I'm using my 8.6 Blackout Fix with Gorilla 300gr subsonic FMJ and a Burris Eliminator 6 scope.
Want to show me up? Grab your phone and your rifle, hit the range and film your own attempt!
Complete rules:
docs.google.com/document/d/12...
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One of the things (there are many) that I admire about Ian is his humility as a shooter. He’s a good shot, not a “great” shot. And he never claims to be. He does more shooting than most people, has quality skills, but remains humble about it. That is very much a rarity on the internet.
He also attempted the challenge under field conditions not from a sandbagged bench. So that adds to the challenge.
Exactly.
Think how many of the "pro" shooters on the internet use their 15th try of the day, to SAY they can do it?
I’m the guy that Ian ran into just before he shot this video. Yes Ian I weighed my.300WM and it’s 14.8 lbs dry so I used my dads .308 (epic fail) and my Ruger 556E (better but still failed as expected). I’m down to my son’s .223 and my .300WM. Stay tuned and thank you for being a good person in real life). Jerry in the Green Tacoma 🇺🇸
Don't sweat too much regarding the weight limitation and still try the challenge. Also it's not about people failing or succeeding, it's more about starting a discussion, getting some data and having fun 🙂
I know you can shoot a 5 gal water jug at 1000 yds with that 300 WM. Must have been dust in your eye.
@@PolenarTactical. My rifle weighs in around 25 pounds so I’m definitely not worried about weight.
@@PolenarTactical so the challenge is 10 rounds, 1moa, ~1" at 100yds, correct? I'm headed out this weekend, will try.
@@RichardCranium321Doesn't have to be at 100 yards, I think Block shot his at 50m but it has to be 1 MOA. There might be a minimum range. The rifle has to be in your shoulder, no bench vices etc. 2 initial shots allowed to warm the barrel up I believe. Check the video on BlokeOnTheRange to be sure of the rules.
If MOA stands for Misses On All, then yeah, I can shoot 1 MOA all damn day.
"I wanna know if the problem is me or the rest of my equipment". Truer words have never been spoken, because we usually know the answer when we ask ourselves that question haha
To be fair, looking at the improvement from the Fix to the Hecate, it does look like a lot of the problem maybe was the equipment... just not all of it.
Most shooters cannot even see 1 MOA vs 2 MOA at 100 yards, without optics. Most shooters are getting up in years, and our eyes are not aging well. For that matter most red / green dots are over 1 MOA in size, 3 to 5 being common for a GOOD one, and as much as 15 MOA is not hard to find..
I'm positive you could get much better groupings with that PGM by using a rear rest and maybe using a more optimised ammo. Ammo was a big factor for my Savage .308 bolt action - when i found the right stuff my groups shrank down by almost half
Have to agree, a rear rest would certainly help.
Seating depth / distance off the lands is one of several factors that can have a huge effect on many rifles, so absolutely.
Rear rest not allowed in Bloke's rules for this.
@@owensmith7530well that answers that .
@@owensmith7530 actually rear rest is allowed
Im gonna try this with my Lee Enfield No4Mk2 once i zero my scope.
Handload the rounds, you should be able to do it unless the bore is very worn out. Great rifles. Miss them.
You have about a 10% chance. That is not a 1moa gun.
It's completely possible depending on the rifle. I've had 2 sporter mk3's and they both were around 2 moa which I consider pretty good considering the military acceptance standards for those things
You don't even need to zero the scope, just hit paper aim at any fix point
What type of scope mount does your No4 have?
Impressive, very nice. Now lets see Henry's 1 MOA rifle.
Wouldnt be surprised if Henry can do it iron sights
@@ronenton4037 he absolutely can
@@ronenton4037on a MP5
We need to establish a community standard for accuracy claims. Something like x-moa is always done with 5 consecutive shots no more than 30secs apart at 100yds with group holes measured center to center. This video demonstrates well how one of those 3shot groups may have been 1/2moa. Or a 5shot at 1moa. But the 10shot, now it’s 1.6moa. Speaking the same language would be helpful for all!
This is one of Mikes points. 3 shot groups aren't and 5 shot groups really aren't either. You have to up them for any meaniful data, to the 9-10 shot size. In fact he has videos on just this thingy and from those the comp was born
Definitely not helpful for the rifle manufacturers. Their sub-MOA claims and warranties with lot of small print are ridiculous...
@@somersethuscarl2938 agreed I think we just need to boost the idea until people with the power (like Ian) dictate what the standard is. If we had a bunch of big names all agreeing on what the standard is, firearms manufacturers and other people claiming “moa all day” would be forced to follow suit. Also the moa gold standard might change lol
@@andan2293 amen. They deserve a break when people shoot Walmart ammo and claim the gun is t accurate, but if you’re shooting premium ammo well and are at 2moa vs their sub minute claims, something needs to be done
It's 3 10 shot groups overlaid by point of aim. Will give you a statistically significant data set and the actual cone of fire of the rifle. Anything less is not worth the ammo. It's pretty much the accepted standard for prs or other competitive shooters
You've got to understand what most people really mean by "shoots 1 MOA all day", which is "I once shot a really small 3 shot group so my rifle's super accurate."
Or "I shot a 5 round group and tossed out two impacts as flyers"
When I hear stuff like that, it make me think to the time I was shooting about 1-2 moa groups with my M1A, even though I don't get anywhere near that with anything else and only did it once. Though I am just getting serious about shooting.
@@Asome3333e1 I can shoot MOA occasionally all day long. I just have to disregard the 80% of groups that aren't MOA and keep the number of shots in each group low.
Worst thing about this is when they fail to replicate the result and just use the excuse: "this rifle is far more accurate than me"
Well if you're testing your systems accuracy (which includes you) this is a valid test......but if you're just testing the rifle+ammo...you need a dead solid position,...and multiple 3 to 5 round groups.
If you just fire 1 shot and then stop, then you have won
So we need the moving paper strip behind the target from Bench Rest competition...
"You are technically correct. The *best kind* of correct."
@@salvation122A one-shot group is technically not the required ten-shot group.
>Shoots one shot
>with .55" boys
> "Looks like I failed"
Fully rationally, I am aware that subsonic ammunition through a _thing-that-reduces-the-sound-pressure-level_ (let's not anger the automatic filters!) is indeed much quieter. But the _poof_ vs *BOOM* is still really striking. And at some level a bit hilarious actually.
as a person from not-the-usa, i'm curious - i'd assume the U.R. was quietened in post (or while recording?) by some margin, but idk about the much quieter rifle: that sounded soooo nearly silent (i could hear the hits but not the travelling bullets etc) - is that also the result of production or?
In the UK here we mainly have smaller bore but the worst noise is sonic boom crack, if you stay sub sonic then just the propellent gas is much easier to deal with.
It's harder to get fire arms here but I'd say it's more common to have a quiety thing on the front than not. A lot of people shot .22lr with them on the front and that can get very very
quiet
@@sjs9698 I assume it's just the standard camera microphone throwing in the proverbial towel. It will simply compress or clip really high pressure sound levels.
Pay careful attention to how long the sound reverberates/echoes and compare that. It lingers for much much longer with the second gun. Listen to the tone too. One lacks bass range completely while the other has a deep rumble. One doesn't distort the sound recording while the other clearly causes distortion. Those aspects of the respective sounds tell you how much they differ in loudness.
I’m a fish & game wildlife biologist. One of the game wardens I know well was trying out to be a police sniper. He got 1.5 moa and ended up getting the position. I can do 1.55 moa with my 338. I’ve been shooting long range my whole life and I’m very proficient. Most people who say they can do 1 moa are bluffing.
That is Blokes point, oh and 3 round groups aren't. I can do 1.8-2.00 with my .338. The rifle is much better than I am, in better hands it's well within 1moa, i freely admit i'm not
Our SERT snipers have a 1MOA over five minimum standard among other testings.
After five shots, it's more of a test of focus than ability.
Yes, the best shooters I know are capable of zen-like concentration...dullest people I've met in law enforcement.
@@JD-tn5lz a lot of it has to do with what situation you are in. I can get into a zen like trance when I am out in nature alone. I’ve made some incredible shots hunting. Though in a police sniper role I would do very poorly because I would be super stressed. My mildly autistic traits allow me to get into a zen state out in nature. In places with lots of people I am much more stressed.
In my experience in the military, when doing rifle quals, so many physical variables factored in. On good days my grouping would surprise myself haha. Cool comments guys, I enjoy hearing from shooters with varied backgrounds and all that jazz.
Yeah, I could talk all day about the 1918 Mk 2 Lithgow Lee-Enfield and the Tasco scope, but I'm pretty damn sure that while I could drop any animal at that range I could not put the entire magazine into a 2.5x2.5cm square, especially as there was no bipod. We're all the heroes of our own action movies until someone is watching.
Just goes to show, almost any modern rifle is more mechanically accurate than the majority of shooters.
Good run on this though! Even holding 2MOA is hard!
The moment when even the most highly skilled shooter fails most often is the moment he realizes he "may just do it."
I'm no super high-speed low-drag precision shooter, but I know a few and have met many.
They are capable of the most concrete focus you've ever seen.
Dullest people I know😆
I think an experienced shooter using an anchor of a rifle should eliminate the human factor and the distance eliminates the transsonic drag and wind influence. I just do not think rifles are mechanically capable of holding 1 MoA "on demand".
@@MarcinP2 That's kinda the point of this challenge from Bloke, too many Fudds claim "1 MOA" when they talk about a statistically too small number of rounds like a "5 minus 1" (aka "that fifth one was just a flyer") when talking about accuracy. An uninterrupted 10 round group with no "that one didn't count" is closer to reality.
@@Guysm1l3ywell, let's use a little perspective here. No, not to denigrate Bloke or Ian, but...
A five-shot standard has been a standard for a very long time. Reasonable or no, there is a purpose.
Most, or at least many, "Fudds" are sportsmen, not cosplay fantasists like most modern shooters. Few modern "non-fudd" shooters have never pulled a trigger with sights on living tissue.
Holes in living tissue is the core idea.
Paper is training and development material; a testing item to work in a load, rifle, and shooter for the real work of shooting. It isn't the goal of a sportsman, it's just a slim part of the process.
Once you go past five, and great if you can, it's no longer a strict physical test of mechanical ability, it's almost entirely a mental game at that point. Everything is going well, now you have to keep extraneous thoughts out.
All if this to say, that five-shot ragged hole will demonstrate to a "fudd" that he and his equipment are prepared to go harvest.
I know labels are convenient, but they're also lazy, incomplete, and usually inaccurate.
@@JD-tn5lz Found the fudd!
Elmer in his fishing vest and gout won't need less than four or five MOA to harvest a deer, granted.
But someone actually serious about being a good shot should completely ignore all that fuddlore. A five shot group is the equivalent of never working out with more than your starting weight, you won't ever improve.
And it doesn't matter if your target is paper, a buck, or a blue helmet. Having "worked out" more with longer strings of groups gives you better stability for that critical first (and often only) shot.
fast forward is like anti-bullet time
Its not fast forward, thats just Ian cycling the bolt normally.
"Put up or shut the fuck up"
i love this so much.
Ahhhh. The MOA challenge. I'm sure every viewer could contribute something to this topic. I could probably write a few pages.
I'm going to summarize a few points. The more shots fired into a group will eventually open up the group. Getting TEN shots within 1 inch of one another would be an outstanding accomplishment given all the factors involved.
I'm happy to hit within 1 inch of the point of aim (100 yards). Read that again.... Within 1 inch of point of aim....... that's actually 2 MOA. If I hit a deer/coyote within 1 inch of where I am aiming.... mission accomplished.
2 MOA is really good if it's consistent rifle accuracy but people that dont shoot a lot or dont know any better with give you hell in the comments. Everyone claims they can shoot sub MOA because they dont realise how hard it actually is :)
@PolenarTactical I just viewed the video laying out the ground rules. I certainty won't make any outlandish claims. I'll follow the rules and do my best. This should be a fun exercise.
It begs the question 'how expensive is it per country to shoot 1 moa?'
I LIKE THIS QUESTION
(Shoots 1/2 moa all day long from imaginary rifle)
Absolutely free in the UK 😂😂😂
Huh, thats weird... Everyone on my forum says their AR can shoot 1MOA with a 2MOA red dot and M193...! All day long, even! They've never posted a target photo in their lives but I'm sure they're just itching to this time
"AR can shoot 1MOA with a 2MOA red dot"
- If they can place the dot consistently on the target, size doesn't matter. Just like in ISSF/olympic shooting: shooters don't see the "10" yet they hit it - by consistently placing round, black part of the target in the dead center of their peep sights.
With traditional open sights it's similar story - target is wider than the front post.
To clarify: I share your skepticism regarding those claims, it was just that technical detail I wanted to talk about.
(By the way, I've seen what medium-top level shooter can do for fun and giggles with HK416 (civilian equivalent), good HPBT ammunition and no magnification. Years of practice go a long way).
Ive gotten great results with a red dot sight, but as anyone whos tried to place a fuzzy irregular glowing shape consistently on a target can tell you, that is a big "if"
I'd say it actually easier with good open sights, as you can consistently place the target on a consistent part of the front post.
Same as every Taurus owner has “thousands of rounds fired no malfunctions”😂
Well, look, obviously they COULD post those target photos, but think how boring it would be: just one big half-inch hole right on the bullseye. They're doing you a favor by not posting 'em, if you think about it.
@@trioptimum9027 I would never be able to live with it, they're saving my life really
Thanks again Ian for bringing us something different to make us all happy that we are not the only ones to have accuracy issues due to the solar flare that have been accruing lately.
laser range finder
langefinder
this is a technical term now :D
It's harder than people think. Most people claiming to shoot moa or have set ups that "regularly" do it are only shooting 3-5 rd groups.
We shoot 20 in F class and do it all the time at 300 and 600yds
@gregchapa6112 you would be the exception not the rule, ya dunce.
@@gregchapa6112 Granted and very impressive, but F class rifles weigh far more than the notional limit allows. The point of this as I understand it is to show the people claiming their ar/smle/sporter barrelled M70/etc is 1 MOA all day may not really understand the magnitude of their claims and to encourage discussion about what a '1 MOA rifle' actually means.
We come for the historical accuracy, not the shooters accuracy. Thanks Ian!
Come on, its a fun challenge and FW always gives us Plenty.
@causewaykayak, I think you misunderstood. He’s saying it’s okay if Ian can’t shoot the 1 MOA group
@@pb7087 Thanks. I stand corrected.
FW is always a good watch and very well mannered.
This is for BRAGGING RIGHTS! 😂
We all come for Gun Jesus.
Can’t help having to take your head off the stock each time you work the bolt
It's kinda a feature of shooting a bolt-action rifle, if it's a surprise you might want to look at how the guys shooting in the Olympics deal with having a single-shot 😉
@@BlokeontheRange Not with a No.4 though Bloke - you showed that.
If aim is 1 MOA, it doesn't matter, provided that the scope is good and mounted properly. The errors come from other sources. Cartridge mostly and barrel and chamber heating up.
Seein those groups from high performance platforms makes me feel a lot better about my Remington 700 in .30-06 and its 1.5" groups.
For me to put 5 shots into an MOA is a task and is to done with sandbags and a good trigger and no muzzle attachments.
Check out the Hornady Podcast „Are your groups to small“ and „Are your groups still to small“
Also mean Radius is a much better way to define dispersion.
Thank you for only shooting one moa. They've become increasingly scarce after the Covenant glassed Reach.
Ian is always shooting with wonky weapons at comps just for fun... It's nice watching him actually go for true precision...That was a tight group all day, nice shooting Ian, the true gun Jesus... Amen
You need to take Erik Cortina up on his KYL Challenge + Texas Plinking 1000yd Challenge
F-class rifles can do it with 20 round grouping 😅
But would be interesting to see Erik try the challenge because F-class rests and bipods are not allowed... i think we can ignore the weight rule because i would actually like to see his submission
@@PolenarTactical I've only seen him shoot his F-Class off a rest and a rider. No tripod. I'd give his 6.5 Needsmore series a watch. They do a lot with factory barreled Rem 700s especially rifle #2 with the stock trigger, stock, and a harris bipod. The factory ammo episode has some interesting take aways.
czcams.com/video/5HC77Lo1_qE/video.html
I'd really like Erik to participate to see what he does and maybe even change it up a bit like 1 shot p/day over 10 days. Maybe you, Bloke, and Ian can get him to meet up with Cousin Henry at Eagle Lake and run Speedway.
Fantastically honest video. As per usual with you, no BS
I'm sure you're aware of this, but aiming for a high contrast area (such as a line/ cross) will very helpful to stay consistent on the aim point.
(I'm assuming you're lining up the optic's line with the paper's, but I always preferred a solid X myself)
We were always taught to shoot for the lower left or right corner on a paper silhouette when zeroing.
I think my best performance was a just below 1 moa with sniper's rifle (I forget the actual name, sorry), but that was 4 years ago and I only fired 5 rounds for the group.
- I was not a trained sniper.
I used to shoot a lot in training, but I've chosen another more quiet path now^^ I do miss the range days, I often ended up winning bets, usually the younger blokes trying to impress.
a great very interesting video and rifles Mr.GJ.have a good one Mr.
thats one thing i love about. he is totally.honest
the equipmemt can do 1 moa, lets see if i can as well! its great to see
@Ian: congrats and thanks for trying the challenge and even more for doing it twice in Arizona's desert heat. It sure's an eye opener, that every ambitious hunter/shooter should try.
A few hints: a slower cadence with loading single rounds (Bloke style) and the use of a rear sandbag (fuddly or not) might lead to better results. Letting the barrel cool down with an open bolt between the shots should improve the results as well.
I'm really curious, if Henry and Josh will try it and what their results might be.
Greetings from Germany!
When i was in the beginning of developing loads to my SSG08 in .300wm,
4x5 shot groups, with 4 different powder loads averaged .85moa, and when i removed the target from the carboad i had for background, there was a 20 shot group, that measured 1.2 moa.
On a good day with my current hunting/target load it averages .3-.5 moa grouping.
Nice job ian
PGM Ultima Ratio is amazing ! Like the Hecate II.
Hey, at least you tried! And I completely concur with what Ed Hopers said. At least I think that’s the name it says/said? I couldn’t zoom in and I don’t have my glasses. lol
Very nice video, do you think you can review the Dillinger m1911?
Let me suggest a different target and sight picture. I was at an old fashioned range where you shot for 15 minutes and then a break to check targets, etc. I had a number of rifles to zero and I didn't want to fire 10 rds and then wait 13 minutes. So I shot 4 rifles at a large bullseye target, but I didn't aim for the middle. I aimed one at the top of the black, another on the left side, right side, and the bottom. My crosshairs allowed me to get a consistent point of aim as the vertical crosshair (on the bottom aiming point) also lined up with the vertical row of numbers for the scoring rings, and the horizontal crosshair was aligned on the bottom of the big black circle so I had really good contrast and was able to maintain a perfectly consistent sight picture on a point, not in the middle of even a small bullseye. I give credit to the rifle and that consistent aiming point. I shot a one hole 10 shot group at 100 yds, 5.56mm, 5x Leupold scope. I've never shot that good before or after (haven't used the same sight picture for general shooting. Anyway, give it a try. Not practical (or necessary) for hunting most shooting activity, but I'm convinced it is the best for getting a zero.
Have you ever done a video on the: Kynoch Schlund Double Trigger DA revolver? I recently came across one in my research but it didn't include any technical information on the weird trigger system.
Question: Ian, have you ever done a video on the Anzio 20mm rifle?
Sometimes its all about the right ammo
Might try this with my restored No1 Mk3 or maybe my 1896/11
Yikes. This makes me feel really proud about my used $1200 20"stainless DPMS. My 10 round personal best to date is 1.43". Always trying for tighter!
People dont realize thats a good result, especially for any semi-auto rifle! From my experience ARs are also the most capable accuracy-wise from all the modern semi autos. probably because of the DI system or something because most piston guns that i tried, were less accurate
So basically, we're having a contest to cut through one more aspect of range BS.... love it!
Maybe we need a prize for the most lame excuse. Lol
You're supposed to shoot an initial two rounds to warm the barrel up before doing the 10 for the challenge. Wouldn't have helped Ian's first attempt but might have made the second attempt a lot closer to 1 MOA.
I have rifles that can easily shoot five shot groups under an MOA at 100 yards, off of sandbags, in a dead calm. Ten shot groups off a bipod with me behind the scope, never going to happen. Still fun to try.
Sandbags are legal...
What was going on with the mag on the Ultima?
Fudly and lame sure does sound like a sacred cow to me.
That is a good test of a rifle.
Something that is always underused in long range precision shooting is maintaining the same cheek weld between shots. Every small thing you do to reset your shooting position is a new variable that can throw off your consistency. Maybe not always possible with left handed shooting but settling in to a shooting position that you chance as little as possible during a group can make a massive difference.
I took my best shot at it too. Super tough standard to meet in every which way. 👍
Dont shoot any more after decades but I remember it was cool to shoot right handed bolts from a bench left handed. No problem as opposed to unsupported. Ah, the old days. If you got a decent set of bags, both guns would probably cut it. An unsupported back and a bipod never worked for me. I once had an out of the box Savage heavy barrel tactical type bolt gun with H414 hand loads and Speer .308 match bullets shot .250" at 100 yards The only thing I did is fire lap the barrel. It stunned me. I used to have a lot of fun working up loads and doing everything I could to make a gun shoot well, This gun actually pissed me off Two trips to the range and I was done. The gun gave up its best with a minimum of foreplay.
I like the editing on this video👍 maybe better than your grouping(s). nice job ian🥰
When I checked the zero of my AR (JT Machining lower, CMMG LPK with a GI trigger, PSA Freedom upper with a front sight post, stainless 1:7" FN barrel, Magpul MOE forearm, midlength gas system, with a gen 1 Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6 LPVO) I was getting 3/4" 5 shot groups with my blemished bullet reloads and old, Chinese steel knockoff Harris bipod. I hope it's less than ten pounds.
Question. Do the experts think that Ian always shooting different rifles might possibly work against his accuracy in a test like this. ??
HE GETS 100% for Honesty. 🏆
Very good. Thanks for the "honest" attempts.
That's gonna be tough with fmj ammo and no sandbag for the rear. I've got a gun I think could do it and be under weight but I've honestly never shot a ten round group with it. It usually shoots half moa or under for 5 rounds. And i mostly bang steel at long range so it hasn't shot many groups after load development. I've never weighed it either and it might be little over but I'm not sure. I've got a couple other guns that have a good chance but are definitely over weight. And that's all assuming a bag for the rear.
There's a lot more to OnE MoA aLL DAy than just a rifle that will do it. You have to set yourself up to shoot well. Square behind the rifle square behind the target, natural point of aim (if you close your eyes and relax then open them are you still exactly on target), bring the rifle up to you don't be crunched down low as possible, control your breathing, and most of all The Holy Rear Bag of Tight Groups.
Some of those you mentioned are fundamentals of ISSF-style target shooting. There are books written on breathing alone.
I agree, he wasn't squared up behind that rifle, and it doesn't matter if he's a left handed shooter.
Rear support for the rifle is not allowed in Bloke's rules for this.
@@owensmith7530 Yes it is allowed, it's just frowned upon.
@@juniyananajukyu You won't see anyone in the Olympics squared up behind their rifle (though they are using slings) ;)
You shot out the Peg Game board on your target, Mr. McCollum!
of all my guns, the only 1 that will run 1 moa is my 1969 glenfield model 25 in 22lr. Only out to 100 yds though. I bedded the action, recoil lugs etc, lapped the scope mounts, free floated the barrel. Granted the newest weapon I own is a cheap m4, even that is 20 years old now. I'll film it next time out at the range.
I have never been able to shoot off a bipod as well as I can with sandbags (Uncle Buds). Bipods bounce the rifle under recoil. Not having a rear bunny eared bag is a handicap.
Sandbag and rear bags are allowed
@@PolenarTacticalMy impression from Bloke's video is sand bags at the front are allowed but not the rear. Bloke didn't use one and said "from the shoulder".
@@owensmith7530 If the bag isn't between your shoulder and the rifle you're good to go. It's quite clearly specified in the rules :)
I like how the Fix gave you a very nice triangle-shaped group.
Ok now I want to do this in H3 and Operation harsh door step... Just to see if a I can do it and 2 how different flat and VR are for shooting.
It’s really rare to be able to do this with factory ammo. The only way I’ve been able to do. It. Consistently is through handloading. Handloading is the answer.
My rossi .22 lever gat pulls sub MOA groups like a laser beam (i only hit the paper once and shot the rest in the dirt)
Ian just went "I can't do it, France save me! Give me strength"
Damn if my one rifle was back together I’d love to give this a try. Sadly I’m waiting on a new barrel for it.
Ian, all you need is a stock Remington 700, hand-loads, and a few sandbags. :D
Off the bench is one thing, prone with no rear support is a whole different kettle of radish.
I know you detailed that shooting mat in a video, but I can’t find it. Who makes it? :)
Just considering what 1 MOA is makes it pretty nuts. 100 yars (91ish meterss iirc?) all in a circle where the bulletholes wont even fit without overlapping. It's an insane bar to reach.
It’s 1 MOA center to center, not edge to edge
@ForgottenWeapons Otherwise, we'd be saying "My rifle can shoot (1 + bullet diameter in inches) MOA all day long!" 😀
@@mrkeogh Hold my cannonball and watch this!
MOA actually means "Minute of Angle" and is a measurement of angle off center from the shooter's point of aim. Hard to explain without visual but the thing is that 1 MOA is an angle and at a distance of 100 yards it makes a roughly 1" diameter, at 200 yards it's 2", at 600 yards it's 6" - that's why it's convenient to use it as a measure of accuracy, because accuracy of a rifle is a cone that extends out of the muzzle towards the target. The further away from the muzzle you go, the bigger the cone of spread.
You can imagine it like a birdshot spread from a shotgun, just less extreme.
Thank you for listening to my TED talk.
My predictions for this challenge:
Somebody will do it indoors with avgood PCP air rifle.
Henry from 9 hole reviews will do it with handloads and a remi 700 outdoors.
All the other wins will be rimfire indoors or rifles way over the weight limit.
My $700 savage model 10T, my handloads, and my $250 vortex diamondback tactical yield me .4” groups on good days, easily under 1” ALL DAY
There are group measuring apps? What a time to be alive.
My AR can do 1.5 with the right ammo. But been shifting my efforts to rimfire lately and 50m distance so I will see what I can do once I get to the range.
Attempting this challenge will probably be a shocker to all those that have been thinking they have a 1 MOA rifle by shooting 3 and 5 shot groups. Actually a more comprehensive test would be to get 6 targets. Shoot five 5 shot groups on different days with different weather conditions over a month using one same target behind the other 5 each time to see the cumulative results of the 5 groups. That will show you the real accuracy of you and your firearm.
Yes, it will be a shocker but i suspect most people wont submit their fails 😅
The issue with 5 round groupings is that you can still get lucky. I was able to get two 5 shot groups under 1 MOA with my CZ600 Trail but with shooting 10 round groups on multiple days with same ammo, i was able to get best grouping at 1.4 MOA and the others were even worse.
Me and Bloke both noticed this with the CZ600, it has "issues" with fliers for some reason and it just doesnt want to group tightly. Nothing wrong with that, 2 MOA is really good also but if i would only be looking at my 5 round groupings and tell everyone that this rifle is sub MOA, i would be deceiving people.
It's even worse with 3 round groupings...
This nice Poteka Mk27👍
I never knew ian was old tymye black n white movie fast on the action
Dude! I did this yesterday with my slingshot ... lefthanded.
I shot 1" groups at 300 yards on a perfect day with 6.5 creedmore. It was only a 3 round round group and don't think I could do it again. It has a fudd monopod on it.
5:26 he was talking directly to me and i felt it, lol
Deploy the rear monopod and keep shooting.
😊
I did this the other day with a 17 HMR but I’m here to tell you… If there was even the slightest puff of a breeze that would be the end of that. If it weren’t for two shots, I could’ve covered the group with a dime-that is such an amazing little cartridge!
I have done five rounds groups at 100 in less than an inch all day with my bolt action 308. Never tried ten round groups. Challenge accepted. I will also try a gas gun with match rounds and see what happens. Might be a new fun thing to try every range trip.
10 round groupings are quite hard but can be done.
Would love to see the result :)
I'll have to give this a try next time I get out the range. I have a rifle and cartridge I think could do it. Whether I could keep it that consistent is another matter. In casual shooting I can muster about 1.5MoA.
Do it, it's a fun challenge :)
Just a question is there a chance of you making a video about the AK-50 not that it’s finished?
1 moa with 10 shot group is a world of difference than 3 or 5 shot groups. Sure I’ve shot plenty of 5 shot 1/2 moa groups, but nut sure I can hold sub moa for 10. Shot a one ragged hole 5 shot group with my friends match 308 in his underground 100m range so probably could have met the challenge that day, maybe
Roger your "maybe"!
You get to a certain point and you start "choking"!🤪
Happens every where: Bowling, golf, tennis, billiards, poker, etc!😳
Ah .... as the Bloke will bang on about three shot groups aren't
I have used ARFCOM's MOA All Day challenge for years. It consists of a single sheet of notebook-size paper with 5 aiming points spaced out across it. The rules are simple. Shoot one 5-shot group at each target. No do-overs, no alibis. It must be 25 shots fired in a row, and all shots count. Measure all five groups, center to center, then average them. If the average is sub-MOA, you qualify.
I honestly think one 10 round grouping is harder to to sub MOA than five 5 shot groupings. I do a lot of testing like this with different rifles and it seems that going from a 5 round group to 10 rounds, the size almost doubles. So if people/rifles are averaging 0.7 or 0.8 MOA on 5 shot groups they will probably fail on this challenge
One thing that i didn't test properly but i bet it would help is to wait at least 3 minutes during each shot so you dont heat up the barrel. Because with 10 consecutive rounds just the change in temperature can introduce vertical stringing
Isn't subsonic ammo usually used for short range?
Should have a similar challenge with battle rifles and iron sights only. Lets see what rifle everyone uses and what they can do
If owned Iron sights...I have rifles that do not come with any.
1:04 Does the "reasonable weight" imply not too heavy or not too light. Asking because I'm unsure how the weight generally affects the accuracy irrespective of other variables.
Later on in the video he says there's a weight limit so, it implies not too heavy. Probably limits the type of gun (more powerful caliber = heavier gun) and the type of attachments you can put on there.
Weight has an effect on stability. A 20 lb gun on a bipod and bags will move less than a 6 lb rifle in the same setting.
Heavy rifles are easier to shoot accurately.
Weight generally helps with a rifles rigidity. A lot of a rifles weight is in the barrel profile. Generally speaking (all else equal), a thicker profile barrel is more accurate than a thinner one, rigid, doesn’t heat up as fast.
@@saybrowt ah the patton technique: if your rounds rip apart the target, you can make a case where one hole is supposedly 2 or more holes.
I did a 15 round group a couple months ago with my lithgow LA101 in 308 that was .865 moa measured with the ballistic X app, but I was on a bench with a rear bag. I probably couldn't do it prone with no rear rest, and I doubt much of anyone could on the first attempt.
The rules say "from the shoulder" only. Bloke did it from a bench, but with no rear bag, Ian did it prone. Have a go and upload
@@somersethuscarl2938 All I was using was rolled up tee shirt in the back and one of those cheap little screw up and down front rests that lives on my bench. I just read the rules and I met all the requirements but didn't film it. I'll see if I can get out today and do it again on camera. I'll even use a bipod to make it sporting.
@@someguy325es Jolly good, looking forward to old stick
Rear bags are allowed
Also dont worry to much about the rules. We would love to see more submissions and to see what kind of rifles "make it easy" and which ones struggle
@@PolenarTactical After a Wild Bloke turned up was waiting for the Wild Polenar to be spotted. Far easier to see the difference in the wild between the Bloke and Chap, it's the plumage you know, but it's much harder to tell the Wild Polenar apart 🤔
I am hoping that the 8.6 BLK ammo was a significant part of the problem. I got a similar pattern (as opposed to group) out of a Fix with Gorilla ammo.
There is a reason most published target images haves crap all over it. The box of ammo, the ruler, a dime some empties... it's to cover the holes they don't want you to see.
Mono pod may not be cool but a rear bag should be a requirement. I wouldn’t count either of these rifles out until you add that.
You need that guy from Backfire tv there.
nice triangle though. lets see you do one pointing left now LOL
It's important to keep in my mind that maybe both the equipment and the shooter are capable of 1moa but the shooter is not used to the rifle in some way. While it's a massive step down, my buddy has a different scope on his pcp air rifle than mine but we have the same rifle and I tend to shoot larger groups with his gun for whatever reason.