Greenhouse update (Nov). Insulation, geothermal heating and cooling, and more
Vložit
- čas přidán 17. 11. 2019
- This is a Greenhouse we are building in Springville, Utah. We purchased a Kit from Greenhouse in the Snow and have added various fans, vents and shade cloth from greenhousemegastore.com. Its November and we are gearing up for cold weather. Insulation and electrical are finished. Geothermal is almost finished. Sneak peak of our Aquaponics. Lots more coming.
You mentioned you will put chicken wire over the box for the geothermal pipes. You should use 1/4.inch wire mesh to keep mice and other critters out of the pipes.
I have some experience growing indoors and what I would recommend is smoothing this surface inside and painting white or even better, adding mylar foil. This will reflect the sunshine better so your plants will be getting more light.
'some experience' lol... my guy 😏
Very cool! Thank you so much for taking time to make this video! I am very highly considering putting in this greenhouse next summer!
Very nice job! Love the Greenhouse in the snow videos and what he has done with his greenhouse, cool to see others following and incorporating their own ideas. If I ever get out of the suburbs and buy a few acres, I would love to do something similar. Thanks for sharing.
Very cool guys? We have been looking at the kits. Nice to see you guys pioneering the way. Looking pro :)
I'm really happy to see this video! I'm about to move back to Indiana from California, and plan to stop in Alliance to see Russ's Greenhouse in the Snow in person. I can't afford to build one at this time, but I love living vicariously through people like you who are doing it! Thanks for posting!
Build one with scrap windows
Great video. Very awesome sunken green house. Good job
great video and nice greenhouse! thank you for posting!!!!!!
Good to see this, we will be building one next year, using hempcrete on the north, east and west walls. We are off the grid and looking at Snap fan for direct solar connection on ventilation, but have not figure out the blower fans as they use so much more power. Hoping the hempcrete will be part of this solution as it acts as a thermal battery to help keep it cool and warm. Cheers!
Love it! Exactly what I'm hoping to build. Thanks for sharing!
Wow that’s looking real good, it has plenty of room and great insulation, it’s real cool
Awesome greenhouse you have going there!
A lot of great ideas to design from. I have a setup that’s works well in winter also
Awesome! No heating needed? grows all winter in neg 20F temps?
Nice. Thank you for the tour.
Thanks for the update
its awesome looking, good job!
Looks great! There are also cold hardy citrus Yusuf, cumquat, etc
Fantastic build! I’d be scared of flooding where I live though.
Very cool! Thank you for sharing! Subbed!
Excellent Bill outstanding
This is amazing I wish I had a geogreenhouse!
Nice! I worked in HVAC for years that's a great blower there.. it'll do alright 🤙
Exciting to see another utahn doing this!
Thank you for putting your location!! Majority of these videos don’t say where for reference based on their climate!
Looks awesome
Very nice a little complicated but complicated good when you're gardening if you know what you doing huh but yeah I like it looks like you're doing a great job I'm making one myself a lot smaller but same principles
Good use of thermal mass.
Nice one 👍
good job mate
thought about doing one of these here in kentucky but we just get too much rain to have an underground anything. You dig a hole here and you have an instant pond.
I'd love to see how your greenhouse is operating now! I have a prediction that you will be able to answer by now, which is that the water table may keep the temperature in you geothermal pipes at a constant temp in the 50's, rather than build up a "heat battery" over the course of a few years, as it seems to do in Russ's greenhouse. That might keep the greenhouse a bit cooler in the winter than you expected.
I'd also like to know what kind of soil, and at what height you planted those fruit trees. I hope they are doing well!
Awesome ❤
Very interesting! I’m all excited about geothermal greenhouses, cool in the summer and heat in the winter, ripe subtropical fruit in a cold climate, what’s not to love!
Klaus
I still wonder if the mass actually works on that oranges-in-the-snow idea. But the old man insists you get ground-temperature-average out of those hoses if they're at least as long as that magic 230 feet and buried 8 or 9 feet.
I'm just not sure I'd do in summer what they do in summer. I think summer mode for my greenhouse would be mostly idle, and I'd grow beans and such on trellises outside, and keep most/all of the sun off it. I'm debating whether to move the citrus inside and outside, seasonally. But I can see keeping that space cool in summer with shade more than with big blowers. I know nothing about the root system of such trees, but I'd definitely look into moving them outside in the summer, or only letting the sun in where I had my indoor grove, and shade the rest of it.
To me, the purpose of the greenhouse is to grow things in the cold.
And just about everywhere that guy had aluminum siding, I'd have earth, I think.
Very nice🎉
My greenhouse in northwestern Utah County has about a 3 ft deep hole in it, and it filled with about 2 feet of water late last winter (circa feb 2023), with all the snow and rain we had. Mine won't always have this hole and the floor is at ground level, but I imagine by now you might have added a sump pump to keep the water seapage under control...
last Winter was very unusual. I didn't have any problems but we were very wet with the Spring melting and moisture that never ended. Sump would be a good idea if the problem persists.
I saw that Greenhouse in the Snow video and I also want one, but im located in South Texas i use shade cloth lol
i dig it.
way cool!
Are you going to farm fish to utilize the nutrients? If yes, you can run the air lines into the ground to help keep the temp regulated on the large tank. Just a thought.
I am in Springville, could I come by and see this?
Looks good.
Instead of covering the berms with siding you could run three rows of horizontal shelving, at an angle, to grow your favorite table vegetables.
It may increase the temperature slightly. So, if you are having excess heat issues, then maybe not. However, in my opinion the benefits of an increased rhizosphereic profile are worth it. Maybe through in some mushrooms?
The pond is really interesting. Never heard of such a thing. You kinda made yourself a spring. What are the rough dimensions/area?
Amazing and neat work. I see that you have two blowers, one to pull in fresh air and the other to circulate the inside air through the geo pipes. What is the power rating, CFM and brand of these blowers?
Looks amazing!
I was watching the old guys video. He has a tube up top to gather heat and moves under the greenhouse for a thermal bank. I don’t see this in your design.
This is fantastic even if Its out of my budget. Would you please share how much the greenhouse and insulation cost?
Was a unit like this cost. Nice stuff
Greenhouse in the Snow says you should be able to do it for $25K. I have a lot going on so I spent more.
Would love to see an overview site-map to see how you planned out the dig to place the geothermal pipes. Share your work?
I'll try to put something together to show this.
@@trailbreakfarms I'm looking at starting a greenhouse farm in Arkansas. I would love to email or call you about pros, cons, new tech?
Very cool! I haven't seen very many people post videos of their kits built. Russ truly has developed quite the system. It's on my list to go take a tour and see it in person. What will you be growing in this space? Do you have any kind of backup in case the electricity shuts off? That's my biggest worry. It gets to -35 here for weeks at a time. Having the power go out in winter could potentially kill all the plants. I would be curious what your electricity costs run with the greenhouse in full swing. Thanks for posting
Growing area is 17 x 72. My plan is Vines on the North Wall Grow beds on north and south. Trees and shrubs and ground cover in the main area. Mostly tropical fruit. Regarding back up, I am going to put a solar unit up next year but our power has been uninterrupted. I have thought about putting in a back up heater that runs off a propane tank in case of outage. Right now I'm using geothermal and a back up electric heater to keep it at 50 and above during winter. My next video will show how I heat and cool the GH during winter.
❤
badass
Love it but i hang mylar on the back angled wall to increase the natural light in the winter
A high gloss white paint could help bounce the light down
cool =D
Awesome. I have watched all your videos. I have a question where is the end of the cooling tube loop in the vacuum room go.
Ed greenwald
The tubes that come out in the vacuum room stay underground for about 60 feet and come out of the ground outside.
We have been in the countryside for three years. Now we will be moving to an even farther, wilder place. But on our channel we show history from the very beginning - we invite you if you want to see the countryside in Poland.
I would love to know what the noise level is when the fans blow. I saw a video of the original Greenhouse in the snow and am very impressed with the system. I would love to live in a Greenhouse that could maintain a fairly constant temperature.
You can't hear anything from outside. When inside, the Winter fan is quiet but the Summer fans are a little noisy. The blower for geothermal is not very loud either.
Thoughts on greenhouse front be south facing....though the sides east n west...
I’m curious to hear more about how that water issue is going
Water has stayed atleast a few feet below the Greenhouse. We ended up picking up a lot of water in the trench where we placed the geothermal so we put in a new trench heading downhill from the pipe trench and that has picked up a lot of water and places it in a pond where it can slowly percolate into the ground from below. Cool pond. It doesn't freeze during winter because it has a constant inflow of new water.
I think I would have concsidered substansual ridge vents that could be opereated in the summer instead of relying only on powered ventilation
So you have poly on the "North" wall and you have metal in the "East, West, and North wall"?... Cool. Tx
Thanks for the great advice. I am considering this setup for our 80 acres in humbolt county ca. Did you consider a cold sink below your growing plain?..say 4 feet lower where you can stand and have access to plants.
This GH gives me plenty of access to the plants as is. Cold Sink is an interesting idea in that it gives colder air somewhere to go away from the plants but with this GH I've managed to grow during winter without a problem.
Is the frosted plexiglass, or whatever the above material is, does it allow enough sunlight for the plants? Also, in Nebraska, do you need a well permit, from the state for the geothermal well?
So you have two geothermal earth tube systems? One that pulls air through your yard for fresh air. From where? And how does it drain condensate? Then a second system that recirculates the air. Where does it drain condensate? As you can tell from the graph on your video, most people come here to learn about your earth tubes and it would be nice to know more..
Love citrus in the snow greenhouses. You are close to us here in Moroni. Do you allow visitors?
First off, thank you for the videos! I was wondering the dimensions of your greenhouse. Including the entrance portion...
The dimensions of the greenhouse are 17 wide by 72 long. The entry room is 12 feet long which makes the main growing room 60 feet long.
@@trailbreakfarms Good luck with your avocado chances man! 5-15 years to produce fruit and 50/50 chance for the plant to even produce, those odds suck! lol
@@gg-gn3re your attitude sucks... lol😏
Damn man you sound just like Mr Grow It!
Great design but does it have to be entirely plastic??
Any update video during snow months.
The airflow pipes aren't water tight so it will be inter to see if the water level rises enough to block them. I wasn't sure exactly where the corrugated pipes were placed or at what level
I'm thinking in my build
I'll lay the 4 inch pipes on a slope so they can drain to as many buried 55 gallon plastic barrels as needed to be 4 ish feet below the lowest pipes so any water can be pumped out
There has to be a better way than how it is being done?
Do you guys get bears? I'm at 7800ft in Colorado and pondering what I can build that works but keeps them out
nice design! I have watched an old man's similar passive greenhouse design, which uses geothermal heating and cooling. is there any online guidebooks on how to install and use the geothermal heating and cooling system in relation to the greenhouse? thanks
I found CZcams to be the most helpful. There are a lot of helpful resources here. This is why I started making these videos. I've found a lot of helpful feedback.
Search "Oranges in the snow" and you'll be taken straight to the guy who's carrying the flag.
Would love to see your pipes layout in your yard i am a bit confused about the pipes in west , in the vaccum room .and about the exhaust outside what's its purpose and how is it connected?
I'll do a video showing pipes
Very nice build! Just curious if the wood post / metal knee walls inside would be better in concrete? I don’t know much about this type of green house construction so I have a lot of questions. Lol
Definitely better in concrete. I have a really hard clay soil here that holds up really well. If it was sandy, I'd need a whole lotta concrete.
@@trailbreakfarms Yeah we have a lot of clay a foot or two down below the top soil as well. Thank you for replying!
Wonder if you thought of aircreate for foundation and even the ceiling- back wall as it has a R-6 per inch ?
I am not familiar with aircrete. I'll look into it.
Sounds like a good idea to look into
nice idea. looks like it will work.. foam is ruff on the in side though. did you run your foam under ground or just to the top of the ground..
Foam on side wall was sprayed on. Goes to the ground. We also used some foam and liner along the ground prior to backfill.
What is the insulating material you used? I hope it's not polyurethane or some other plastic. 🤔
Did you have any issues with water coming in below grade? Thank you , great video
So far its staying below grade. I've dug a small little trench thru the Greenhouse that ties in with the deep pipes used for the Geothermal so I should be good either way. But its been fun to watch. Maybe an extra source of water and heating/cooling.
@@trailbreakfarms thank you sir, my wife and I looking into installing a geo green house this
How have the sheets held up to the snow? Seems like they would buckle in...
Does surprisingly well in the snow. Snow slides off in a hurry.
Very nice. Thanks for sharing. How many total feet, and what configuration are your underground pipes? You mentioned 7-8ft depth, I think. Did you use pipe w holes, or solid? Thanks again
GH is 72 x 17. Pipes are solid because I have groundwater issues. 8 feet deep. 12 pipes in trench. 4" diameter. Main pipes run 230 feet.
Did you run the air tubes in sand, gravel or just dirt? Also, do the air tubes require any cleaning to prevent bacteria or mold growth? Do you run any filter system on the tubes? Very nice greenhouse!
we have a high water table here too, maybe even higher than 7'. My concern is water eventually seeping into the air tubes and creating mold, and thus creating an unhealthy air quality, for humans, in the greenhouse. I suppose the alternative would be the different geothermal style using fluid-filled tubes. What do you think?
interesting idea. I'm not familiar with fluid filled tubes.
Did you have to drain the terrain around the greenhouse to avoid water infiltration during heavy rainfalls or snow melting periods?
No I've got it so the water drains away from the GH
What DREAM greenhouse to have. Will you ever consider solar?
yes this Greenhouse has Solar
I would test for radon gas?
This is incredible! What happens with it being dug out like that when you get torrential rains? Any issues with flooding or mud saturation?
I built it so that water flows away from the Greenhouse when it rains.
@@trailbreakfarms I noticed you didn't build as deep into the ground as you might have. Think of that same glass, but the glass meeting the berm at the top. If it's not letting sun in, I want to see earth coming right up to it, to the maximum extent possible. Maybe yours is the compromise build that'll keep kids from climbing on it. But it seems like you'd want to max out the advantages of earth shelter everywhere the structure is opaque.
So at the bottom level, you'd be something like 10 or 15 (more?) feet below the top of the berm abutting the north wall of the build, because you're digging down a few or several feet and you're piling the debris on your north a few or several feet. And yeah. You're giving water much better places to go than your construction. The value of a good excavator is not to be underestimated. .
@@harrymills2770 I backfilled after building the Greenhouse so that the dirt comes up to the Polycarbonate Windows. I could have dug deeper but shade becomes an issue on the main growing floor so its about 5 feet below grade, but the backfilling makes it 6 to 7 feet deep (runs east to west).
Is there any way to make these wider without losing the benefits of the geothermal and insulating benefits of the ground?
yes I think you could. I think as long as you were below ground, circulating air, and had the appropriate amount of tubes/circulation you could do it.
Good morning! My wife and I are looking at greenhouses.. we see this type and another that uses water batteries for heat temp control. Did you look into that type as well? If so- why this type??
we use geothermal and fans for heat control.
can i have a link for the kit? alliance nebraska?
Did you say this was a kit, and do you have the plans? I want to put a geothermal greenhouse In my yard.
Greenhouse in the Snow out of Nebraska. He says it at the very beginning.
Did you use 2 layers of plastic and have a blower blowing air in between them?
no. the blower I use pushes air thru the geothermal tubes.
Turning out nice. Hopefully in Utah the angle of the sun isn't such that there's still good light in the winter below the berm.
The Berm is on our north side. We did build the GH into the slope (runs East to West) but not enough slope to affect sun light. We peeled it away on South side.
I just had my greenhouse destroyed by 80mph winds. Do you think this type can withstand high winds? Is it anchored?
Thank you. Love your videos!
yes I do. The Greenhouse sits below ground and we backfill dirt up to the bottom of the South Window as well as up the north wall. 2x2 metal tubing goes into the ground about 2 feet. Sits in concrete. I think it would do very well. We've had some pretty good wind gusts here and it is solid. Sorry to hear about your Gh being destroyed. The good news is you can take everything you learned and put it into Greenhouse 2.0!
@@trailbreakfarms Definitely. I have already talked with the greenhouse in the snow company. I am thinking of doing it! I am happy your videos are out on the web. I wish I could find more people with these greenhouses to get more ideas. It is so much digging!
Why did you choose not to build the back side into a hill using the earth to insulate backside? Or northside of the house.
My Property rises slightly from West to East. Definitely would be best if you had South facing so you could build into the hill. Also would be best to build on South side of a structure so you can exchange hot/cold air between structure and Greenhouse. The South side of our shop is in the shade for a good part of the day.
يا جابر، إنا أهل البيت لا يقاس بنا أحد، من قاس بنا أحدا من البشر فقد كفر. يا جابر، بنا الله أنقذكم، وبنا هداكم، ونحن والله دللناكم على ربكم، فقفوا عند أمرنا ونهينا ولا تردوا (10) على ما أوردناه عليكم، فانا بنعم الله أجل وأعظم من أن يرد علينا، وجميع ما يرد عليكم منا، فما فهتموه فاحمدوا (1) الله تعالى [عليه] (3) وما جهلتموه فأوكلوه إلينا، قولوا: أئمتنا أعلم بما قالوايا جابر، إنا أهل البيت لا يقاس بنا أحد، من قاس بنا أحدا من البشر فقد كفر. يا جابر، بنا الله أنقذكم، وبنا هداكم، ونحن والله دللناكم على ربكم، فقفوا عند أمرنا ونهينا ولا تردوا (10) على ما أوردناه عليكم، فانا بنعم الله أجل وأعظم من أن يرد علينا، وجميع ما يرد عليكم منا، فما فهتموه فاحمدوا (1) الله تعالى [عليه] (3) وما جهلتموه فأوكلوه إلينا، قولوا: أئمتنا أعلم بما قالوا
GREAT VIDEO! I'm just wondering why the North wall leans in, as opposed to being vertical...is there a structural or thermal reason, or is it something else? I live in Southern Arizona and want to build something similar, but unlike most people up north, I am mostly concerned with mitigating the summer heat without depending on the GRID... BTW do you have a source of steel frames like those you used on this build? Thanks in advance!
I wondered that as well when researching. Its structural for this Greenhouse and the design works well for many reasons. I like having some shade on the back wall during summer but full sun in Winter. I like growing on the back side of the Greenhouse during our outdoor growing season. All in all, its a great design. But I think a vertical wall would work great as well.
@@trailbreakfarms Thanks very much for your timely feedback! I understand why the back wall should be shaded in the Summer, especially here in Southern Arizona. One more thing to think about...
I'm thinking it's tilted in to help reflect winters low sun angle into the plants
@@jimh4167 Good point!
If you watch the original CZcams of this style called…citrus in snow…the farmer who designed it said that leaning side was supposed to be north facing. That means the thickness is better thermal insulation against the coldest side that loses the most heat in winter, helping keep it above freezing to keep things alive
So the geothermal won’t keep it cool in the summer without the fans? Did he figure out a way to do a self-contained geothermal set up? Thanks
The geothermal, by itself, won't do enough cooling in the Summer. We added a shade cloth, fans and a misting system to help us stay where we want to be. We have some other things we'll try out including more tubes. Once the trees and plants are fully grown, that'll help a lot. We'll keep you posted.
How long is the greenhouse? Do you need permits?
in Utah I needed a permit because I have electrical in the GH. 72 feet long.
Do you have any temperature data that you've collected yet (inside/outside temps, etc)? Not just the temperature coming out, but the actual temp inside the greenhouse.
I ordered an Acurite Weather Station that just showed up and that will help me monitor temperature and humidity remotely. We've been watching the temperature when its gets cold and we are staying 46 degrees and up with temperatures dipping into the teens. We can get pretty hot if the Sun comes out so we run fans that pull from the geothermal pipes when it get up to 85 degrees inside.
@@trailbreakfarms
You should have some sensors in the ground so you can compare the in/out temps with the mass temp. It will highlight why a few long tubes are not as efficient as short tubes.
@@JohnGuest45 Can you provide any links so I can study the difference between the long and short tubes?
@@terimiles5699
Hi Ted,
i`ve been trying to steer folks away from long tubes for years but they keep installing them for some strange reason. Take a look at this webinar presentation by Shannon Mutschelknaus who shares my views on long tubes. czcams.com/video/zEkAohPgtNI/video.html
He`s on the right track but there are big improvements to be made if he can think a little more outside the box
what are the three angle bend degrees on the tubing roof framing? thank you
I don't know the angle bend degrees. You could contact "Greenhouse in the Snow" (the maker of this kit) as they would likely know.
I'm hopeful we can order one of these kits in the next year! I'm curious on if you may know the answer to a couple questions that I can't find the answer to...At 4' deep are you able to grow full size fruit trees (mangos and avocados are what I'm thinking of in particular), or do you need to get dwarf varieties? Is it feasible to dig deeper if you don't have to worry about a high water table to grow full growth fruit trees trees, or is that I'll advised?
definitely want to stay above the water table. yes buy dwarf varieties and prune them as needed.
@@trailbreakfarms thank you for the feedback!
Gonna suck to change the poly
Any comments on the potential toxicity of the spray-on insulation?
I hired a professional to do the insulation. They wore protection and masks as there are likely chemicals and vapors that are not healthy during the process. I returned a day later to paint the insulation to avoid the potential for any "off-gassing" which may or may not occur during the life of the Product. The insulation and the below ground nature of this Greenhouse help a great deal in reducing the amount of "energy" used to heat or cool this Structure. Without a doubt the process is not always 100% environmentally friendly but my goal here and elsewhere is a net positive carbon footprint.