Can A2 CofC Holders Fly OVER Buildings and Cars? CAA Interview - UK Drone Rules
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- Hey everyone! In today’s video, we are talking to Callum Holland from the UK CAA to discuss what A2 Certificate of Competency (A2 CofC) holders can do whilst flying their drone. One question Geeksvana gets more than most on this topic is whether or not you can fly over buildings and cars or if you have to maintain the 50 metre separation rule due to the uninvolved people inside…
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Sean Hickey, founder of Geeksvana and main channel presenter is a UK registered journalist who seeks to provide accurate information on what is an often misquoted and misrepresented industry and hobby. Sean currently holds certificates from the UK Civil Aviation Authority, including both the A2 Certificate of Competency (A2 CofC) and the General Visual Line of Sight Certificate (GVC). Flying all sizes of multirotor aircraft from the small DJI Mini 2 to larger aircraft including the DJI Inspire series for both hobby flights and commercial work.
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I like the comment... and I paraphrase, “those rules are there not for when everything is going well, but for when things go wrong”.
I will definitely use this.
I agree!
Thanks Sean, very useful information.
Hey Tony! Thank you.
Good to get some clarity on the subject. It does come down to common sense in the end and just plan your flights well
Hey! Yes indeed, planning and then taking the risk sometimes. Impossible to mitigate away all risk. Looking forward to your next flight!
I fly commercially and I simply stick to the 50m horizontal rule for buildings and/or people.... regardless of the situation. I just think that sticking to this gives the simplest way of addressing this...(regardless if I think people are in buildings/cars/boat's etc). Having said that, Honestly most of the work I do is with the mini2 and we own 7 drones which includes air2's and 2pros so I guess the truth is sub 250g drones (as we all know) stops this grief!
Hey Austin! Yes, I have to say I pretty much do similar. Although that can change for factories or very large buildings but often we are able to get them to warn staff etc.
Hopefully we get a little more wiggle room on A2 commercial flights...
Perhaps the Mini5 won't need us...
@@grahamniven I’m considering undergoing cryostasis until the Mini 5 comes!
As a newbie, I’m practising by going for walks (having left my drone at home), looking at something I’d LIKE to film. I then look at where I’d launch from, my flight path, vlos for height. It looks like I have to fly from a lot further away so I can do a ‘poi’ shot of the top of the building(s).
Problem with 'use common sense' is that we've seen police try to apply a jobsworth interpretation of rules. Those audit people may be fools for causing issues unnecesarily but have shown this is a problem. People can be flying entirely safely but open to accusations, fines and confiscation. It's not very helpful to leave it a total grey area, rather than at least give some generalised guidelines.
Hey Ben! Thanks for taking the time to comment. I do think that overall you can pretty much remove 99% of the Audit channels drone use as any kind of indicator of police reaction to them. There are many other reasons why they get the responses they get and it simply, in my opinion, is not how average hobbyists are dealt with. Not saying there are not issues and my email inbox shows there are, but the Audit channel drone use is an exception in my opinion.
👍🏻 sounds good
Ordered a mavic 3 had virtually all other dji products including inspire. Now worried I've bought an expensive paperweight! Let's imagine it's January 2023. Where and how can I fly out of the box? And where and how can I fly with a2 cofc?
I like beach and sea and back garden etc
question - i currently use a mini 2 for mapping for work (mainly construction progress). ive got insurance and the operator and pilots registration. lack of capability is making me want to upgrade to a Mavic 3E (circa 930g with RTK module) . it takes a ton of spare batteries, and wind performance isnt great even at 60m agl so there are lots of missed flying opportunities. Based on the comments from the CAA guy in the video, would the A2 C of C cover me for this type of work as long as any people beneath were in a building or car? interested in any views on this.
Hey making my way through your videos and they are extremely helpful so thank you.
I will say, I am getting progressively more confused as the laws are changing so its getting harder to know what to do next.
I want to fly up to 2kg, and CAA recommended I do the A2CofC. I am in northern ireland, is there an online course you recommend? I see lots of different ones online but would appreciate if you could point me to the most common and how I will get the certificate etc to be legally covered. Is it a user ID (like operator ID) that is recognised on some government database?
I think it’s mostly common sense I think! 🤔 good video👍
When I got arrested and the interviewed by the CAA,they asked how far I thought I was from said object or person etc, I will tell you that it's very difficult to judge.
When you're looking at the screen, things appear closer than they actually are, when you look up to see where your drone is, its further away from the building than I anticipated.
So, when I put my videos up on my CZcams channel, it looks like I'm closer than I actually am in real life.
It's a very difficult thing to judge the distance from things, but yes, common sense is key.
Hey LONE WOLF FILMS! Thanks for taking the time to comment, I really appreciate it. Yes, judging the distance to objects from an aircraft you are remotely piloting which is constantly moving, is not the easiest thing. As so often with these things, it us usually only when something goes wrong that it us analysed...
@@Geeksvana I agree, I do operate with the parameters of safety at all times, the last thing I would want is to damage or injur.
It's great that your channel exists to be able to convey the laws and guidelines to those not in the know.
It's something I need to do more of on my channel.
Keep it up buddy, you're doing great things for the community as a whole.
I’m completely new to droning, etc. it’s been weeks. I passed the Flyer ID exam this week. Re the distance thing…you can ‘measure’ it on Google maps (in a web browser, not the app) using the Measure tool. As in the planned flights can be pre-measured in Google maps and saved like ‘journeys’. I’m meaning like measuring an ‘as the crow flies’ line one the map from where you will be shooting from to the target. I think the DJI flight app save the co-ordinates of where the drone is when we play it back(?).
It’d be useful if gps location was saved in the metadata of our photos. Same, I want to be able to ‘pin drop’ a map as I fly. 🤔
Any news on the article 16 by law
So, 50m from uninvolved persons under a2cofc, but under BMFA article 16 it’s 30m down to 15m take off or landing. Article 16 you can’t make financial gain from flights but the drone still has the possibility of causing the same damage to a person if a collision occurs. Suggests article 16 pilots must be more skilled pilots and less likely to collide with a person at closer distances … I don’t get it ? Why the double standards .
In safety terms, the Article 16 Authorisation is different because it can only be used when flying from an area mainly used for leisure and you cannot fly outside the bounds of the leisure area, (park etc). So, the argument is that you can see people and risks more clearly. Whereas with the A2 CofC, you can fly from any congested location, so it is deemed you need to have a greater separation. That's the argument at least.
Also, Article 16 is of course an Operational Authorisation rather than a certificate granted by the CAA. So, for instance a GVC holder has their certificate from CAA allowing them to fly under an Operational Authorisation with some companies achieving a 5 metre separation. So it is also down to the excellent work by people like Simon Dale at FPVUK for negotiating, and in fact renegotiating, an excellent Operational Authorisation on behalf of his members.
Hope this makes sense on a Sunday evening 😂.
I am a building surveyor and I inspect roofs of buildings that are fully occupied. I use a sub 250 drone. What on Earth risk am I causing to the occupants? The 50m rule would mean than roof inspections are banned!
50m rule is only for larger drones being flown in congested areas by A2 CofC holders. Sub 250g drones still have their zero separation.
@@Geeksvana That's what I thought but Mr CAA did not mention this in his "commonsense" lecture. Shame that if I want to upgrade the drone I am stymied for surveying work in London unless everyone in the 50m vicinity goes down the Underground for 2 hours.
Common sense.
As rare as unicorn poo amongst the masses and is subjective.
I personally think a tall row of dense trees between a drone pilots flying area and even a kids play park 25m away is enough to satisfy the common sense rule.
The playpark is fenced in with a 4 foot fence.
I'm sure others will disagree and I hope they do, it will prove my point beautifully.
Yes precisely. I have asked the same question to several training companies all of whom accepted sufficient tree cover can be enough protection. Subjective is certainly the word.
I am a commercial drone pilot and want to use fixed wing. Does A2 cofc allow me to fly fixed wing drones as I passed my gvc on rotary not fixed wing. Whats the weight for fixed wing using A2 cofc as there's no c rating for them. Even though article 16 allows me as well.
Hey Ali! The weight limit for the fixed wing would be 2KG under the A2 CofC at the moment. Basically the fixed wing aircraft would be treated like an legacy drone. Do remember that you cannot use Article 16 for commercial flights. I know you will know this but it is one of those things I remind people on. Hope this helps.
I tend to use article 16 more than my A2Cofc and common sense. I don't want people in my videos unless I've been asked as a favour to include them. But as a hobbyist most my flying is done with just the rules as much as i can and common sense
Hey Nick! I find Article 16 helpful only when my take off position is a leisure spot and not being able to fly outside the volume of the park an issue. But I do find it useful for the DJI FPV Drone...
I think it would be useful to clarify the rules now for a drone that weighs over 250 gms but under 500 gms. The Mini 3 Pro with a Plus battery weighs in at about 290 gms I think. What exactly is the position on this. Is it ok to fly over fly the front of a building or a car when no body is standing there (i.e. not "intentially" over flying a person)? If some body appears at the door of course the flight course could be altered so as not to "intentionally" over fly a person. I would also like to know how many drone incidents have been reported in the UK that have been reported as the result of damage or injury to a person or property (as opposed to just incidents that just involve a member of the public complaining because they think the flyer has broken the law). I have passed the A2 CofC and being member of the BMFA have third pary insurance for £20million. I think it would make sense for all serious drone flyers to take out insurance (even though cyclists, skate boarders and scooter operators as well as dog owners, all of which are capable of inflicting serious damage and even death to un-involved persons) do not have to!
Hey G Williams! Thank you for taking the time to comment, it is good to hear different thoughts and opinions on this. In terms of the rules between 250g and 500g for A2 CofC holders, this is pretty simple. You are able to fly with zero separation of uninvolved people, just no deliberate overflight. So certainly, you would be able to fly it over buildings etc where there is currently nobody standing etc. As you do not need to maintain any separation, it would be in my opinion safe to do so.
@@Geeksvana hi Geeksvana can you please clarify holding a a2 cofc and a drone weighing 900grams i have to keep 50m horizontal distance, does this mean i can overfly if im 50m above the person or does the 50m cyclinder rule still apply ?
Nothing wrong with my "sensor" if you don't mind!😀
😂😂
Just when I think all is crystal clear like a mountain stream, it turns out to be a muddy puddle!
It has that feel to it doesn't it. I think of all the rules that need a relook it is the A2 separations. Especially if we are not going yo see C label drones for a long time, if ever.
@@Geeksvana it's sometimes confusing for my one remaining braincell when I am flying! Mini 2 = common sense. Air 2s (now sold for a Mavic 3....arrived today, got fed up waiting for C marking before I took the plunge!) would be either Article 16...or A2 CofC, depending on circumstances! But keeping wits about me when flying different drones under different rules is an odd thing, always questioning if I am breaking any rules and making sure I don't!! (if that makes sense!)
Sounds very similar to me flying anything heavier than sub 250g 😂
Which organization would you recommend to take A2 test for non-UK resident? I am visiting UK and would like to take the test. There are so many answers in the google result and hard to compare.
Bit awkward to involve a whole block of flats' residents! They are coming and going all day long and then there are the endless pedestrians walking by and being nosey. This is Central London where I work, not in the Highlands. I'd be better handing out hard-hats to them all. I wonder how much 2000 would cost.😎
Hey Albion! Yes indeed! It is a tough job to complete when you need a better sensor than a sub 250g drone...
I like how he mentioned the doors. I guess we have to mention the pathways around the buildings. The zoom on these cameras is so insanely powerful that we can be ‘quite a way’ off. As a beginner, my main error, I realise now is flying directly towards grey buildings. Within seconds, I can’t see the drone. I now know to fly to the side/higher up on my approach, so I see the drone against the blue sky instead. Forgive me, but I’ve only flown a few times! Mini 3 is so quick that I’m at the target in no time. Thus ‘too close’. I saw on my screen…a guy on a balcony squinting at my drone in amazement. THEN I regained VLOS by seeing him, and the drone between us!
Very useful info but I fear it may have clouded the issue. It doesn't matter if the CAA looks at incidents on a case by case basis (including the use of 'common sense'), the police and the public will not.
I can carry out an exhaustive risk assessment that shows I've covered all eventualities if I want to fly closer than 50m to a building and, although there is no requirement to do so, I am sure that the CAA would take this in to account if an incident occurred.
The police and the public, however, will not. A2COFC very clearly states the distance that qualification allows. As insightful as this video is, I can't see it standing up as evidence that you're allowed to do what you're doing.
If this is an accurate reflection of the current legislation, the CAA need to issue an official addendum stating so.
Hey Dan! Thank you for taking the time to join the conversation, I really appreciate it. As the regulator who issue the Certificate known as the A2 CofC, the CAA have the right to invalidate that certificate as they can with Operator and Flyer ID. So their thoughts on what constitutes a safe flight is also important.
In terms of police enforcing this, we have shown in our other videos with the NPCC Counter Drones Team that the national enforcement policy is very much in line with the thoughts expressed by Callum Holland in this video.
So in my personal opinion, the existing guidelines and enforcement are aligned. However a challenge at the moment is as you discuss in your comment, how we get this information to those officers on the front line who currently have little knowledge on the topic.
Get a sub 250g drone, then all of this goes away. The Mini 3 now is so capable, for the hobbyist prosumer end of the market you really don’t need anything more. At the high end of the commercial market the game changes and then it really is a different situation with ‘heavy’ potentially damaging drones.
I strikes me as strange that at the moment a newbie can pretty much go out and buy a sub 250g drone and fly it as close as they really like to uninvolved persons with no experience, yet anyone who has an A2C is obviously better trained, more confident and proficient, yet they have the 50m restriction.
Absolutely the Mini 3 is a beast! Although sometimes there are shots and jobs you need something a little bigger for... Agree on the difference for sub 250g, the thinking is they are so small they are low risk but close to people can still hurt 😬
@@Geeksvana get a finger or worse in those blades 250g or not and Ouch…big OUCH ;)
Relate this nonsense to cars on the road. Do we have to drive 50m from every other car!
Hey Marty! Thanks for taking the time to comment. I do often think that part of the issue with drones and finding a reasonable level of regulation is just how new the technology is. If someone wanted to bring the motor car to the UK for the first time in 2022, I could not imagine how they could find a way to do it. You make a good point.
@@Geeksvana Because I earn part of my living from flying a drone, as a building surveyor, I worry that the powers that be will eventually kill it off or make it so expensive or onerous as to spoil the tech. The recent newspaper article about paedophiles flying over schools is not helpful. .
Absolutely Albion, I agree. Although the feeling I get from government and regulator at the moment is to isolate the illegal use of drones and permit more legal flight. Cost however is a concern I agree with.
It shouldn't be legal to fly drones over built-up areas.
Hey Tom, what concerns you about it?
The police have shown they are void of common sense too often on a lot of the audit videos
In my opinion, those videos do not reflect normal experiences of dealing with the police. For a range of reasons.
@@Geeksvana while I do agree and my personal experience has been slightly different so far, the police still have a ways to go on the common sense side to be fair, but so do some of "us" it's a constant struggle of evolution eh
If you fly commercially and stick to the 50m rule then you ain’t doing building surveys. You must be just doing weddings.
Hey Marty! Remember it is only uninvolved people. So if you are working on behalf of the building, you can involve those people fairly easily. Also, the other option is a GVC and Operational Authorisation.