Another Faulty PCM? Let's find out.
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- čas přidán 29. 05. 2023
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@WrenchingWithKenny @snafuperformance2136 @traditionovertrend2704 #wrenchingwithkenny #wesselmotorworks #keepwrenching - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I’ve learned after many years as a mechanic that people usually think the problem has to be the hardest or most expensive instead of starting with the easiest and cheapest first
It appears that if you work on a vehicle once, you've married it for life!
Eh, it makes it easier when you work on the same vehicle over and over again. As a mechanic, you get to know it. Plus the customer gets to pay the bill over and over again.
Only until you change them, because it's rarely the same problem
Hell no I'd have em sign a waiver on particulars
It's people that are not to Brite and you worked 2 yr ago and think it the same problem so you will give them a discount on the job 😅😅😅
People think they will get a free repair after 2 yrs that is why they it.
Retired now. Spent 42 years in the industry, 32 of those owning my own shop with employees. Anytime replacing a larger failed electrical component , fuel pumps,starter,alternators,pcms etc. I would always include a new relay for the component my estimate. Often an electrical component will draw more amperage than it should through the relay before it fails. Then, later, on down the road, the already tired relay gives up and dies. Then the customer questions the first repair. I found it was cheap insurance. 😊😊
We as technicians learn so much from our failures.
Yup, if you aren’t messing up, you aren’t wrenching
Yea, generally no communication would lead to a fuse or relay, electrical problems are tough. You got it Ken 👍
Great job diagnosing once again Kenny, that has got to be a happy customer. The other shop would have gotten them for the PCM and the relay, if they figured it out.
Dodgy shop would charge for the PCM but wouldn't mention the Relay to avoid suspicion
Computers are generally the last thing I would blame for an issue, they're very reliable. I don't know how many people I know that have replaced some computer in their vehicle and the problem didn't go away. It's not that they never go bad it's just that they're very. very reliable. Keep the good stuff coming Kenny.
What's more reliable? a vehicle without a computer or sensors.
@@petesmitt In my world sensors, I'm pretty sure you disagree. We'll just have to leave it at that.
@@johnnylightning1491 exactly with relays we can bypass the issue inturn finding out the clause otherwise it's corrosion or bad ground , splice in a wire etc. With clearing codes obviously it will help further the proper diagnoses
Experience pays...Great job Kenny!!
Good video Kenny! I was always taught with everything in life you start with the simple, basic, sometimes silly stuff first. A friend of mine worked in a BMW dealership. They had a car in with a weird issue with the rear differential and drivetrain that had all the ‘expert’ techs scratching their heads. They were going to charge the customer for a whole new rear end setup ($ Ouch) until a mechanic with 30 years experience took a look at it, sighed, opened the fuse box and replace a fuse and a relay. Problem fixed. Back to basics is the first and golden rule!
We get this in electronics. Customer saying "it won't switch on so must be the switch". I say, what about the other 10,000 components it could be 🙄
Or a cold solder joint. Or a few cold solder joints... 😉
We've all been down the rabbit hole, misdiagnosis always can get you down but it happens to anyone who's twirled a wrench a time or two
Always love a lucky relay, everytime I've been burned by something the next time another comes in it pays to have been burned once 😁
You kissed it Kenny.
Keep
It
Simple
Silly
😂
Your style of trouble shooting is so logical.
No crap-Had a guy the other day phone in on the tech line I work. Ambient air temp DTC on a F150 (we see this a lot on these) . Hi option Ford's have the AAT in the right outer mirror rather than the grill area. Customer tells the tech/shop owner that ever since he worked on his vehicle a few months ago his AC isn't working properly. Tech does some inspection and finds the mirrors have been replaced and like we see often, the wrong mirrors that doesn't have the AAT sensor in them have been installed. So this means the customer is lying. Tech/shop owner, understandably is pissed, and tells the customer he needs a mirror and that will be $400 diag time and don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you on your way out. I can empathize as the customer was trying to pull a fast one. If the customer had been nice and upfront, many techs are scabbing a AAT sensor that is used in the grill into the mirror circuit and letting it hang under the door panel with no problem and proper functionality but this customer was a a hole so eff him and he can buy a mirror. Experience, as this shop owner had plenty of, indicates that some customers are better to just show them the door and let them go on their merry way.
Good find good fix. Thank you
You're good!
It's great you pass along those lessons learned!
Experience is a tough teacher.
Excellent diagnostics 👍straight to the point.
I liked the video. Learned to not go crazy and check first before loading the parts cannon.
I’ve had a couple relays stick on on my can am . Lights on and light switch off
My brother Kenny, this was such a good video. Bless you for making your video a tutorial to include the use of the test light and checking fuses and relays.
Good afternoon Mr Kenny hope y'all have a wonderful day
Nice work Kenny, thank You for sharing another great course in The Kenny University.
Much Love and Hugs
Great find Kenny always learn something from your videos.
Enjoy your videos. I'm Not New to your channel but I'll remember to keep you posted.tks again.
Good call. All the best from Tassie Australia..
You should always check the basic things first.
Sometimes you have to just rely on your gut instinct, other you need to really dig into the problem, but in the end more often than not it's a back to basics. Power, Fuel or Air, as my dad taught me when I was just getting into the industry.
Some mechanics would have diagnosed a bad engine snd chanrged the customer to replace engine. Sad
I just clicked on each and every Amazon link....and watched all the commercials without skipping!
Keep wrenching...
There's no replacement for experience. That's why I love software that offers the most common solutions for common problems of every specific vehicle. No reason to spend any more time than is necessary diagnosing.
After enough time the same problems tend to repeat themselves on each individual vehicle. Amazing just how many shops misdiagnose or just plain suck at fixing vehicles. That's why everyone should research their own cars so you can DIY at least the diag portion of any repair. Nice job. Keep em' coming!
am having this problem now just realized watching your vid i did continuity check across fuses but did not check voltage . thanks for the heads up
Experience is the best teacher. It makes sure you never forget the lesson.
Nice job. Very efficient diagnosis.
Very nice!
That was a good lesson for sure, you can chase your tail on something and turns out to be a simple relay .😊
Got the same scanner. Its just sitting in a drawer in my box now cause the shop just got a badass launch. I keep it hooked up to a tv in my box to show customers whats going on realtime. 4 band scope! And its 100 percent wireless. I just plug it up to a car and stand in front of my box from any bay in the shop.
Seeing more and more about bad relays, makes you want to have one laying around the shop. Good job.
I bought a vehicle that was written off by insurance & stripped everything off it left my place as a shell (no doors,boot lid etc.) so I have containers of relays,fuses complete wiring harness & I have used so many of the parts the thing has been invalueable.
Your channel is doing well!
Hey Kenny thanks for another great video very educational I had a neighbor with a 2005 Infiniti Q45 he took it to a shop they threw $900 worth of parts at it and it still wouldn't run they don't have a scanner he should have called me first I went over there yep out of gas that's all I was wrong with it it was out of fuel that's an expensive lesson have a great day thanks
Yep I've ran into relay problems with GM's too. Most of the time the contacts were dirty, and dusty (Calif Desert) pull em out, and re-insert em, problem fixed. After of course verifying the female spade terminals inside were not scorched or burnt etc lol.......
Ford's a/c systems have weak low pressure switches too. I worked for a Nissan Forklift Dealer a couple years, as a (now Certified Nissan) field tech. Servicing and repairing every model lift out there besides Nissans. Take a break from car wrenching. Well, my service van was an E-350 diesel, had been abused by other techs.
So, my a/c goes out, blowing hot. I go right for the low pressure switch, bypass it, and yes, I need a new 1. So, I tell my supervisor I need a new switch from Ford. He's was an asshat, & says "Oh it's not that, probably needs to go to the shop, and you will lose the freon changing the switch"......Which I replied, "Bro, I worked for a Ford Dealer, over 6 years, I think I know what I'm talking about, NO freon will be lost either jeeeze" lol
Pissed off, he tells me to go get 1 from a local Ford dealer. Which I do, swap out the switch, VIOLA , A/C blows popsickles once again !
Yea I hate when people do that crap as well. Customers half the time arent honest either. Detective work.
That was interesting a lot of people always go straight to the last repair as they do not kmow any better & try to blame a part you previously had changed alluding to you using cheap parts.
I had that problem on my 2002 F150 and it was intermittent. I checked the codes when the relay was working and got a P1000 which is thrown if the battery is disconnected, the codes have been erased or the PCM lost power. I knew the first two had not happened so that gave me a clue to change the relay and fixed the problem.
Years ago before I started watching youtube auto repair videos, I had a crank no start condition in my vehicle. A mobile mechanic did the hammer on the fuel tank trick and "fixed" it - I had him do the fuel pump. That afternoon when he was finished and the truck was all better, I went to leave from work and had another crank no start. I called him, he came over and swapped the fuel pump relay with the ac replay and voila! Imagine that.
The bad PCM a few years ago, probably put a beating on the relay, and it finally went bad? Usually the high current starter relays go bad more often than those, but they do go bad? Great fix, Kenny.
I had the system relay on my Harley go bad where it wouldn't start. I got lucky that my local parts house had one
Yeah I've been here before. Wise cracks at the auctions would pull stater relays so the cars wouldn't start at auction time so they could get them cheaper. I got stuck with more than a few of those but at least it was just a relay.
Great video thank you
Thank you for commenting & watching the channel. Keep wrenching 🔧
Good diagnosis.
Experience is everything my friend.
Thanks for sharing God bless 🙏
Good troubleshooting
You need to get some of this stuff Hosa D5S-6 CAIG DeoxIT 5% Spray Contact Cleaner, 5 oz also follow pine hollow auto diagnostics he is amazing when it comes to electrical issues
Thanks
My universal way to fix all fussy Fords (and dump trailer hydraulics) is to bang on the relay panel cover with the back of my screwdriver. My 91 e350 was having what I suspect was a fuel pump relay issue. Fixed it permanently with a few whacks. But it was also having goofy shifting problems and that's why I dumped it. I had an OBD1 code reader and it wouldn't connect to the PCM! Now my 99 F350 is having similar issues shifting funny. P1715 code despite replacing the solenoid pack. Screwed up shifting. My fuse panel under the dash were all brown and crusty. Replacing them all didnt help tho. Previous owner put a Jasper trans in it and then likely dumped it. Digging thru the glove box I just found 3 random relays... hmmm where did these come from??? Wondering if I need new electrical panels or a new PCM... found mouse nests in the tool boxes so that's not a great sign but a possible clue... I'll be digging into what you were showing us next. Thanks for reminding me to never give up as I'm 100% sure it's something stupid or simple god knows how many mechanics have overlooked now. Me, the shade tree mechanic in his driveway will figure it out. We almost always do.
best thing to do is turn the key on while outside the then move the automatic seat back then get in because you do not know if custmor is a short person and they need a closer view
When you said Ford...that explained the problem lol.
👍
Finally this customer should come around that you don't run a dodgy shop.
The amount of "sinch you worked on it" BS us mechanics deal with is insane sometimes...the stories I could tell of my 20 or so years in the industry would make anyone wonder if certain people had brains!
The second generation Ford truck series & expeditions fuel pump relays are problematic, and you have to replace the whole distribution box, or resolder one on the board.
It’s good you showed this. Those relays do go bad sometimes. Better to replace the relay than a $1000 part and then still doesn’t work. Dah. Am I missing something here or does this guy kind of know what he’s talking about?
Old school mechanic with tech savvy can't go wrong
Yes I had something similar on my 1994 F350. It has the mechanical diesel but electronic transmission. I spent $500 on the 6" thick Ford power train control manual, ODB I code reader, didn't get anywhere with that. No codes nothing. Finally just decided to ditch the high tech tools and manuals and just use my Inspector Gadget common sense. That's what it was. A $5 relay. The official Ford diagnostic procedures don't get you anywhere with this stuff.
Hey Kenny quick question. I have a 2002 Chevy Suburban that the headlights don’t work properly on. So basically what it does is the Headlights only work when the truck is not running, or the key isn’t on the On Position. So basically they only work when the truck is off and on the Accessory position in the ignition. I have tried Headlight Relay Fuse. I don’t know what else it could be because the bulbs work when the truck isn’t running. They turn off after you turn it to the On position in the Ignition. Please help with any suggestions on what to look for. Thank you.
A Fjord, I"m dying here, LOL.
The Ford vehicles saw the commercial and are now questioning whether they want to keep pushing on.
Hey Kenny, you have a part number for that relay? I had to swap one for a fuel pump and nobody seems to recognize the number on the relay. Thanks
Would this be the same for a Ford Diesel 6.0l?
Some of those Ford relays are redesigned that are that size
had a friend with a jeep crank no start. they told him bad pcm. 2 weeks and a new pcm now they told him key/security module. got it back with 4 new o2 sensors. wtf???
I've never heard of O2 sensors causing a starting issue.
@@TheFrenchPug Not really the same BUT. I saw a Durango go in for 02 codes. Dealer replaced the pcm, then was unable to program the security on it. The government municipality gave up on it and sold it. I bought it, and figured it out. The 02 sensor issues was 1 bad sensor heater and a broken wire on another 02 sensor.
The not being able to program the key, for some reason the fuse powering the skim module was blown🤣
@m ph That's pretty incredible! More impressed that you figured that out, though. It doesn't make sense I'm my head as to why O2 sensors would cause that. Seems like it would start and then fire off the codes that there were problems instead.
@@TheFrenchPug They can't cause a starting issue. O2 sensors are bypassed any time the PCM is operating in open loop.
@@TheFrenchPug They didn't in my case. The Durango drove in with 02 sensor codes. Dealer said needs a pcm. They put a pcm in but could not program the keys. Was towed out by the municipality and sold to me.
Remember in the early 90s when the Ford engineers thought it was a good idea to put the ignition module on the distributor? Or another place that produces heat from the engine, the shop I worked for kept tons of them in stock because it was the #1 reason newer Ford's/Lincoln and Mercury's were towed in for dying on the road! One I remember very well was a Brand New Lincoln (top to the line) died a few hundred yards from the Dealership he just purchased it at! When I towed him back to the dealership I told him what it probably was and sure enough it was that module! (He stopped at our garage to thank us for getting to him fast AAA can be slow when Busy) He wasn't happy at all!! I know they fixed this mistake a while ago but still who in their right mind would bolt a module that needs to be cooled to the distributor? Ford made us tons of $$$$ on that Brain Fart! Except when it was still under warranty.
Well Kenny do you have issues like Chevy Door light switches go bad door closed but not reading closed I have we had a tail gate on my dads Tahoe do that from factory almost a year or 2 after we bought it I had to start slaming the tail gate just to get it to say closed once it failed completely we had the door switch failed we replaced it at GM been working great ever after that contacts even from factory can go bad on relays or door switches tell me your story of door switches in cars please kenny in a video please
Ken, the depth of your knowledge, the sophistication of your diagnostic equipment and the complexity of the systems you fix is nothing short of miraculous. The car companies are doing people a huge disservice by engaging in such wizardry. The are digging their own graves. Electric Vehicles will simplify the transportation industry if they can just figure out how to get R-A-N-G-E. One of two things is bound to happen. Either: 1). The way we think of the power source is going to change, i.e. Instead of stop to charge a battery, we will pull into a service station and swap out the battery or the entire pwr system in seconds. or 2). The powerhead will be a fuel cell capable of using several kinds of fuels making electricity which will power the whole vehicle. I worked in advance engineering and saw Fuel Cells first hand, I believe that will be the future. NOT BATTERIES that blow up, catch fire pollute in mining, producing and discarding. I love gasoline engines, but I can see the future of EV. I just wish the current presidential administration would let the market dictate the time and terms instead of ramming it down our throats in everyway imaginable. ben/ michigan
The CEO of Toyota has stated that the new designed nitrogen combustion engine will make EV cars obsolete. The only thing that comes out of the exhaust is water. To charge up the EV cars with the electricity it takes comes off of the grid that is powered by fossil fuel still and takes a long time. The nitrogen vehicle can be filled in 90 seconds. I think that is too cool. These oil co.'s are going to be shaking in their shoes. Check it out on google, it's very interesting. I'm sure it will be years down the line and the oil co.'s I'm sure will slow it down as much as they can.
Great video! 2007 Honda CR-V that would overheat occasionally when at a stop idling. (Wife's car) I could never duplicate the issue. Was not fan relays. Finally happened when I was with her Turns out the a/c clutch relay was occasionally sticking on. Not even dealer had part. Had to order it in. That was over 3 years ago and never had problem since
I am new to your channel and doing a little binge-watching as a Diagnostician myself, may I ask a favor to help your tech viewers who don't have as much experience as yourself. Earlier in the videos your scanner showed 13 modules, after the repair there were 15 modules which show that Snap On does not populate dead modules as some scanners do. May I pls ask that at the end of a video after a repair, can you do a post-scan to show how many modules in total are installed on the specific model and possibly scroll through the list of module names Sir. About 3 videos prior you had 10 modules and a scroll bar as not all 10 were viewable on the screen. As you can imagine if one of those strange non-popular modules were faulty, we may not know this model even has it depending on the scan tool used.
The previous shop misdiagnosis sounds like a SCAM, first bit of diagnosis, PWR & GND to ECM, DEAD, not a bad ECM if it has no power, cheers. Looking to subscribe after watching some further videos, so far so good.
👍👍
"You Learn by your Mistakes." It's nice when you can go to CZcams or the internet to Learn from the Mistakes of Others. Kenny's mistakes may guide how you approach a specific job, but when you make the mistake yourself and it costs you your time and your money, it really sinks in.
I had the same problem with a 2006 honda civic hybrid. Bad ecm.
I was trying to help someone get there engine to crank....I think its the fuel pump....they said. I told them fuel is useless to a non-cranking engine.
Every penny counts
It's never the relay for me. It's always the $300 ac compressor! 🤦♂️😂
That's better than 2k for the evaporator coil
Have you ever dissected bad relays to see what failed in them?
Sometimes it is the contact points in there, normally carbon build up, so they don't make connection.
@@jthonn Or pits on the contact points, from arcking while switching high current. Sometimes these can be repaired for a time by gently resurfacing them with an ignition-points file or fine-grit sandpaper.
@@michaelbolton2741 Yep, at least long enough to get you to the parts house, or put a non essential one from another spot until you can get one.
Well that was a easy 500.$ ......
The problem might be its a ford
Why did I know you would say the car was either a Ford or GM and not a Honda or a Toyota...
Seems like where he lives, nobody drives those vehicles.
I've noticed you like to use CZcams as your scratching post to discuss things you do not like that customers do. Otherwise you record very educational videos that I enjoy.
As for carrying a tool in your back your back pocket please don't. 😅When in automotive school back in the 80's I learned of a man with a long skinny screwdriver sticking up out of rear pocket, sat back in vehicle, punctured his kidney and bled to death before he could get help. Lesson never forgotten.
As soon as he said it was the same problem you just fixed, you should have asked him if he wanted you to throw another computer on it, as its the 'same' problem.
Maybe if you have worked on as much shit as I have had many corroded fuse box .