2015 KTM 250 EXC-F Engine Top End Rebuild (Four Stroke)
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2018
- This video shows how we rebuilt the top end of a 2015 KTM 250 EXC-F four stroke. The bike had done 190H and we replaced the piston and rings.
KTM Piston Kit: 777300071001
Wiseco 78mm Ring Compressor: RCS07800
KTC Ceramic Scraper: KZ4-12 - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Just finished my first top end rebuild by working alongside your video. I really appreciate your help, guys. Take care.
This has got to be one of the best Mechanical videos on CZcams
Thank you! Just did my top end at 182h in my Husqvarna FE250 -2015 after watching this superb video. You really gave me confidence to do it myself. I had to adjust one intake valve, in my bike all schims were 2.16mm so changed one to 2.12mm.
Nice work again! 4 stroke engine rebuild is much more complicated. I can feel the cheer sound in the end of the video is from the bottom of his heart! LOL
Great work! Wish I had this level of professionalism available where I live. I need to open my entire EXC-R 530 2008 motor to change some parts and to do a preemptive maintenance. Almost making a pact with the devel to find someone I can trust to do that for me.
An Absolutely fantastic video! goes into detail about everything even down to the torque bits without too many cuts in the video.. great stuff! All you tubers cut out a lot of stuff, play loud ass background music so you can’t hear what they’re saying and overall not give much info about it so this video is the best video I’ve seen by far! Great stuff guys. Thanks a lot! ❤️
Just for the record here, I was able to remove the head off my '15 250 SXF without removing the entire engine from the frame. I did have to loosen the top 2 subframe bolts to make more clearance from the throttle body. A little shimmying and it came out the clutch side.
Thanks for the detail in this video. I wouldn't have had the confidence to do this job without your guidance.
Thanks!
Good to know. Maybe there is more clearance with the 2015 SXF frame allowing the head to be removed.
For anyone doing this repair on their 250 - 350 with these year models, if you take out the bottom and front engine mounts and just loosen the swing bolt the engine will tip about 5mm which is just enough to get the cylinder head out!
Cheers! 👍
@JonathanBourbonnais it should work on your bike, It will be tight but it should work! 👍 did the job myself aswell and almost got furious when i realized i couldnt get the cylinder out 🙈 so after doing some thinking I thought it was worth a try and to my surprise is worked! 😂
Very nicely explained. Excellent video, but what a nightmare compared to a 2t overhaul. That old piston didn’t look all that worn out. If the compression reading was down a bit, just putting a new set of rings would achieve the same result I think. Unless the cost of the piston is not much, and once you are that far down into the engine, then I can see the logic in replacing the piston as well.
Yes I was surprised at how little wear the piston had after 190H. But considering the amount of time I think it's worth replacing the piston with the rings. For many people this would be once every 2, or 3 years...
Great video, meticulous as always. I'm sure glad I made a switch from a 12 RMZ450 to a 17 TE300 :). 2 strokes are so much easier and quicker to work on!
Ohh amazing bike, enduro monster
Been trying to decide whether to do the top end on my YZ250FX before putting it up for sale. Nice to see a good run through.
Thank you so much for doing this, it's helped me tremendously on my '15 Husky FC 350. Knowing going in that I needed to remove the engine made it seem less daunting. Getting the rest of the parts in today and tomorrow, it's been fun wrenching and doing it myself. Local dealer / mechanics couldn't work on the bike for months.
Colton - I am just getting ready to do my 2015 FC 350 as well. Did you have to pull the engine per the video? Any other advise?
@@ericwarnat52 Yes sir, engine has to come out. I was able to get the job done by myself but an extra set of hands would have been nice. I used a ratchet strap to keep the engine still on my table. Keep patient and follow the manual. Chain tensioner was a headache for me.
Thanks for the vid! Really interesting!
Thank you! You are an inspiration. Thanks to you I encouraged to disassemble the engine and perform the change of piston and valves. I am a faithful fan of yours. From Argentina I send you a big hug !!!!
cristian bosio - Thanks for the kind words and pleased that you found the video helpful.
Excellent. Felt like I was right there watching. Production values we good too for a garage setting. Maybe a bigger light box for seeing into frame areas where work is being shown? Still, really good! Thank you for slowing down the process to capture the video.
Thanks for the feedback and pleased you enjoyed the video. I do have a light box, but didn’t use it during the rebuild filming. Wanting to keep things as simple and quick as possible as it adds quite a bit of time and we needed to finish the overhaul in one day...
Tokyo Offroad really well done!
Very Nice as Always!
lol I love all the expert advice from keyboard legends! I thought you did well & a great video to teach the uninitiated, there's always areas to speed things up especially if you don't do these jobs every other day however your video overall was well done.
Outstanding video. Thanks for posting.
So satisfying to watch. Great work.
Very nicely explained video! Thank you for taking time to film, edit and post this video. Liked and subscribed.
Underrated video. Very well done and thanks for sharing
Glad you enjoyed it!
Beautiful video great work helped me out a lot!!!!
Very helpful and we'll explained, lucky for me (having an older 250 exc) I had plenty of room to do it in the frame
Nice clean work. Great video.
Great stuff, thanks for sharing.
I had been debating whether to get a two or four stroke, this vid has helped make my mind up!
crpm73 so it will be a two stroke right? :D
Ádám Szabó Yup, I’m definitely not a masochist!
A 2 stroke cylinder with 190hrs will never look like this, it won't get there.
Don’t get a tpi lollllll
Great video! I have this exact bike. Super.
Fantastic video. I know guys say 2t is so much easier but after building Harley tc motors a 4t seems so great to work on
Watching this makes me happy to have a 2 stroke 😁 great video as usual
Great tutorial 👏 I have an 2018 model +100h by now, I will check the clearences specs before changing piston+rings , maybe I will just replace the rings, is it recommended?
Brilliant video very detailed and well explained. Would love to see a bottom end rebuild done by yourself 👍👍
Thanks. Yes, one day I'll do a bottom end rebuild video. It probably won't be for a while though as they do last a long time.
Tokyo Offroad how long is a long time? Thanks in advance 🙏🙂 edit: seen your comment stating 500 hrs 👍
Great video. Really appreciate the detail of your information. Excellent. Wondering if you did a compression test and or a leak down prior?
Thanks for the positive feedback. No, we didn’t do a test. The bike was running fine before the rebuild so I doubt there is much difference in compression...
@@TokyoOffroad Then why bother doing a top end rebuild so early?
Great how to! But I wonder if you could answer how to choose the right size of the piston A, B or C ?
Great video why did you take the ignition off?? You could of just undone the plug from the ECU. Much easier.
Great video !
Great in-depth video. I've done quite a few 2T and 4T full engine rebuilds and just top ends. Two things I would have done at 190 hours. I would measure the cylinder for runout. Even if it looks good it may be at service limits. Second, I would have replaced the timing chain. You had the engine on the bench. a timing chain replacement would have taken another hour at most.
Thanks. Yes both good suggestions. The overhaul in the video was a friends bike and we were very constrained for time as he lives a long distance away and we need to do everything quickly. It's always good to measure the cylinder even if it looks good. I did make a 2-stroke cylinder bore measurement video which may be of interest: czcams.com/video/VnVosSuFY-E/video.html
In general though, the KTM late model cylinders tend to wear very little and last a long time if good cold start procedure is used and the air filter kept clean. If you don't have the ability to measure the cylinder bore then carefully inspect it. If no significant damage and the crosshatching is still clearly visible it is usually OK to continue to use.
Since I have to remove the engine anyway in order to change the piston. Do you think it would be easier to remove the engine first and then disassemble the top? I was thinking it would be easier to remove the engine first and then disassemble the top, but getting the piston to top dead center could be difficult if I don't have the rear wheel to help me. What do you think? Awesome video btw!
Did you need to replace the sealing for the generator cover as well?
Another great vid Mark, thanks.
I was actually a bit surprised that you were using engine oil on the threads of the higher torque bolts like the cylinder base and the head, etc. I though that would affect the torque settings?
Was that a requirement in the KTM manual or an old trick you use for some reason?
Thanks! Pleased you enjoyed it...
Great instructional video, thanks!
Thanks for the video, I've been looking to buy a KTM 350 XCf, I have my eye on a 2015, totally bummer the motor has to come out to do a piston swap.
Now to research if the same is true for the 2017 and up models(that's if the 350s need the motor to come out too). OR keep saving a while longer and buy a 2020 300XC!!!!!!!!!
Your vids are superb!
Have had a 2011 exc 250f, briljant bike! Miss it :s
Great video! Thank you!
13:43 why is there a similar rectangle on the side of the piston? Is it an indicator?
If you are referring to the little square right next to the piston ring.. it's got a little piece that stick in there to hold the ring in the right spot, stops the rings from rotating within the cylinder bore
How did you know which poston size to order before stripping the engine? Really great videos though 👌
Crazy how short that stroke is ... it really amazes me sometimes with what they do
THIS PISTON AND CYLINDER WAS LIKE NEW?
You guys are cool!
Tx for the video, do you think if I buy all the tools you have that I could complete this job! Just now realizing what two stoke appreciation means lol, this is a bit more complex. I would def want someone around that knew what they were doing. Is there a book for this?
Yes, the KTM repair manual covers all maintenance tasks well and is clear and easy to understand.
Just to let you know, that you may consider using shorter extenders, or no extenders if you can when torquing down bolts, as the extenders affect the torquing.
So long as the torque wrench drive is held directly over the fastener there will be no change in torque if an extension, or long socket is used. But yes, it becomes more difficult to effectively do this if a very long extension is used as there will always be some slop. Certainly something to be aware of while using a torque wrench.
Any tips on cleaning the gasket surface when refreshing the top end?
Great video! I will be doing mine soon.
Wouldn’t it have been good to do the cam chain at the same time as the engine is out the bike?
Certainly if the bike had been ridden hard and raced it would be a good idea to replace the timing chain. The bike in the video was used for trail riding, with all the hours low stress. It ran well with no strange noises. But it is a good idea when the engine is apart to check the timing chain for wear and replace if necessary. If I make a new 4-stroke engine overhaul video I'll be sure to include that...
Just curious as to why you didn't replace the cam chain? I've usually done that when you hit the 100hr mark or even sooner since they can wear.
i've done over 360hrs on my 450 and its fine.
Tokyo, great vid, thank you! I’m in the middle of my 2013 350excf, the head and cylinder come off with engine in place! Also, on the 350, manual states torque sequence on head gasket of 10Nm, 30Nm and then 50 DEGREES not Nm. I asked local dealer shop and they suggest a 50 degree wrench excursion on the last torque. Any comments? Are you certain it is 50Nm? Your last torque looked like more than 50 degrees to get to 50Nm...you may be overtorqued or I’m about to be undertorqued. I agree with earlier comment, while head off, check valves, guides and seats. Mine had three bad valves, three bad guides and pitting on seats. My piston was far dirtier at an estimated 250 hours (2nd owner...not 100% on hours). Perhaps bad air filter mount at some point in bikes life. Thank you again, I welcome informed comment on final torque of head gasket.
Yes, the 2015 service manual for the 250 EXC-F states a tightening sequence of 10Nm, 30Nm and finally 50Nm (not degrees), with the threads oiled. I don't know about the 2013 350EXC-F and don't have a copy of the service manual for that. If you're unsure I'd recommend that you discuss with your local KTM dealer. Sometimes information in the manuals is not correct so it's a good idea to check if something doesn't seem right. But regarding 50Nm torque, it's perfectly reasonable for an M10 fastener.
thanks a lot
awesome rebuliding film
Very good video 👍
Excellent VID as always... But don't you also have to check ring end gap?
Thanks
For KTM OEM piston kits, KTM only specifies maximum ring end gaps in the service manual. If you're using an OEM cylinder (not replated) and OEM piston kit I don't think it's necessary as KTM control the tolerances tightly. However, if you're using a replated cylinder, or aftermarket piston kit you should absolutely check the piston ring gap. I recently made a video about 2-stroke ring end gap, details are different from 4-strokes but still may be of interest: czcams.com/video/aC-K9r_-lIc/video.html
Brilliant video, thanks
Great job. Brazil.
my honda xr 150L intake tappet valve clearance is .08mm and exhaust is .12mm(standard).. i brought it back to my dealer for a tune up at 12k km odo. they adjust the intake to 0.10mm and ex 0.12mm . any disadvantage for not following the standard clearance?
Great video
Nice video great work
Why is there double the cooling ports on the intake side?
Great video, please tell me how do you decide on the piston size, before disasembling the top end? I need to do the top end on my KTM 300 EXC 2016, done 140h, it will be a 1st piston change, and the problem is that the dealer is 5 minutes away, whereas the bike is 1000 miles, and I would like to buy the parts now and then get to the bike, not go there, disassemble it and come back for the parts. Thanks
I would go with the same size piston as original. If you want to be certain you'd need to measure the cylinder bore and compare the measurements to the specs in the manual. I made a cylinder bore measurement video here (for my 250 2-stroke), which may be of interest: czcams.com/video/VnVosSuFY-E/video.html
To gain the extra 10mm culd you not just undo the 2 bolts under the engine and let it pivot down on the swingarm bolt? With the angle it would drop 5mm surely thats enough to gain the 10mm at the top? Not picking as this is a great video its just i want to do mine and dont want to take the full motor out.
Also am i right in thinking this motor is the same as the 2016 husky??
Very well done. Thanks.
This is why the Honda Unicam engine with a wide aluminum frame is great, so easy to work on!
Moto ReLeif - The KTM 450 and 500 engines (SOHC) are also very easy to work on. The top end can be overhauled with the engine in the frame.
when installing the jug rotate an revolution just to be sure
All that to do a top end on a 4T?! Thank you for making this video as a reminder why I'll never own one again. Congrats on banging that out like it was nothing!
Some of the steps, especially removing and installing the engine in the frame, would be difficult to do single handed, so recommend having a helper available. I personally wouldn’t base my motorcycle purchase choice purely on how easy it is to work on, but it should definitely by a factor to consider, especially if you intend to maintain your own bike and ride it for a high number of hours. Yes, 2T are a lot easier :-)
Tokyo Offroad How long did that take from first bolt out to starting it back up?
Jake T those guys are always trying to justify why they prefer high maintenance over low maintenance.
Thank's for the video, every thing is very well detailed :)
How do you chose the size of piston without taking the cylinder off ? Is there a stamp on the cylinder on the 4 strokes ?
I will do the top end on my 12 Berg TE300 soon but I didn't find any stamping on the cylinder.
I'd like to know the answer too. Ive heard of different cylinder numbers depending on the factory tooling.
BcK good question
As far as I'm aware, it's a refresh, so standard piston and rings
Hi based on What did you choose to use the piston size 1 ? Thanks
You can just retitle this vid "2 stroke appreciation"
LOL. Yes, it’s a lot more work than a 2 stroke. KTM single overhead cam engines (450&500) are much easier to work on and do not require the engine to be removed to do a top end overhaul.
Roflmao. Yeah sohc are a lot easier for everything like valve adjustments, etc
I have also a 350 exc but with 550h on it. Done nothing, even not checked the valves. Runs good tho
@@TokyoOffroad 400 hours on my 500exc and I'm thinking about replacing the piston and rings. It doesn't burn any oil, runs better than a 2019 I test rode last summer but it seems like good preventative maintenance.
CdnX690 - Yes, I’d recommend changing the piston and rings even if it’s running fine. I know some guys are getting crazy long hours on 500 top ends, but I think to keep the engine running fresh and minimize cylinder wear I think it’s important to to overhaul the top end regularly.
Hi
I did not hone my cylinder because I do not have the tool and just put new piston kit on it. Replaced all the valve seals also. Noticed a thin blue smoke when I rev high the bike after rebuild and after spending 2 hours on it. Im thinking that is because the cylinder was not honed.. Can I still hone the cylider and put it back togher even I've already riden the motor after few hours?
awesome instruction video. well made gents....
great video Tokyo. .. one question : how many hours between oil and filter change? that piston really seems in good shape! Thanks Paolo
Paolo Giuffredi - Oil and filter - Oil and filter were changed every 15H
So you eventually have to take the whole engine of, Isnt it easier then to take of the timing chain and stuf after you took it off?
We wanted to see if it’s possible to take the cylinder off with the engine in the frame. We found out it is not possible. The same is true for a 350. As such if doing this again we’d take the engine out and do the work on the bench. Note that if you have a 450, or 500 it is possible to overhaul the top end without removing the engine. Yes, we knew that the service manual shows the engine being removed from the engine, but it says to do that for 450 and 500 also. I like to try and see if things are possible for myself. In this case it didn’t work out, but we did learn...
Great job oh, very good instructor video. Just to let you know next time you don't have to pull the engine out if you take everything apart on the right side, cylinder head and lower assembly comes out from the left side.
Overtime the timing chain extends. On my bike (FE350 with 280 hours), when the chain is fully tensioned the cams are not both exactly leveled anymore. I estimate the cams to have about 3º offset - this seems to be causing backfires. The timing chain must likely be worn. On a 350 the cam sprockets are supposed to be adjustable but I can't break the bolts loose without a special tool that maintains the cams in place - I don't know where to find the tool (where do you buy special tools?) and it's said to be twice the price of the timing chain. QUESTION: Can you replace the timing chain safely without changing the sprockets?
This is why the maintenance cost of a 4t is higher than a 2t.
Wooooo!!! Yeehaww!! That was exciting, watching you crank on them head bolts!! It's 50 degrees past the 30nm!! Not 50nm.... holy cow!! That was fun, very entertaining!!
Page 187 of the 2015 250 EXCF Repair Manual details the head stud tightening torque sequence. Stage 1=10Nm, Stage 2=30Nm, Stage 3=50Nm. It does not specify a degree amount.
Where did you get the 50 degrees past 30Nm information from? My 2013 KTM 500 also had the same three stage torque sequence stated in the repair manual Stage 1=10Nm, Stage 2=30Nm, Stage 3=50Nm
@@TokyoOffroad good ol interwebs. I have a repair shop so I just use online programs that have info for all bikes. In this case 50 degree and 50nm turn out to be almost identical, close enough that considering human error it's good enough. I was mostly just poking fun at how people get silly with how precise one must be when torquing. As if there machine will be flying astronauts to Mars.
@@nwfadv7086 - Oh, I thought you were poking fun at me because you thought I'd screwed up the tightening torque. If you regularly work on KTMs I highly recommend that you get the KTM repair manuals. They are clear and easy to understand and typically contain all the required information to repair/overhaul anything on the bike.
When would you do the 1st top end? Mines at 50hrs of practice days and racing at sportsman level? (No green lane riding)
How relevant would this video be to a 2008 250exc-f?
This is awesome. Do you plan to do your bottom end on a 250 2T? Incl crank balancing?
Bottom end overhaul on my 2T probably won’t be necessary until about 500H (I’m at 230H now), unless I blow a crankcase seal, or something else unexpected happens.
Hi. Im planning to buy a 2015 ktm 350excf. The meter reads 413.5 hours, and the owner said he hasnt replaced anything yet. So its bone stock basically. What should i get rebuilt if i buy it? Thank you and i hope you get this.
I got 250 hours on ktm 350 excf. Would be time for rebuild if so what type. Top or full. It’s quite expensive and mechanic gave me quotes from 3200 to 5500$ for top and full without looking yet. Probably doesn’t every single component. Any advice on bare minimum I should do. ?
What brand of silicone sealant did you use on the valve cover gasket? What brand of liquid gasket did you use at the crank case seams on the base of the cylinder?
I used ThreeBond 1215 Liquid Gasket Gray on the engine case joints and ShinEtsu 1 Component RTV Silicone (clear) on the valve head cover gasket
Very instructive. I have a Husqy FE 250 2016, pretty much the same engine I think. Learned a lot on your video. Thank you very much.
Thanks
You did nice job 💪
awesome tutorial !!!
Cool Video chaps but a few pointers, maybe re-move the studs from the crankcases to allow you to remove the head without removing the engine.... if they are tight remove them when the engine is out and clean the threads so that it can be serviced this way the next time you remove the head..... never put matched metals together ...do not use the old piston to push the new one in, use the wooden handle end of your mallet and tap it through the piston ring compressor until the skirt is protruding or push it through with your thumbs... then locate the skirt in the barrel and tap it through with the handle of the mallet......do your valve clearances on the bench whilst the head is off... no need for paint on the cam chain you have cam marks... if the chain jumps on the crank sprocket you will get confused.... always double torque your head bolts go around 2 or 3 times until they are all settled at 10n/m or 30 n/m or what ever because if you are using stretch bolts you end up all over the place, just good practice.....All the best
Thanks for this detailed video. What type of paint do you use to make the little marks on the cam chain? Is it a specific paint thats ok in an engine, or just whatever?
Andrew Evergreen - I used a generic paint pen. Paint is soft (even when hardened) and its such tiny amount I don’t have any concern about using it.
5:44 i like that ktc wrench.
I have on mine 2017 almost 400 hours, engine never opened runs great.
Still running good?
@@KyTaundry still runs great, I rebuilt the forks though.
@@robsonenduro3316 awesome man, I'm collecting a 2007 model this weekend, so alot older than yours but a perfect bike for me to enter the KTM realm having rode Suzuki RM125's 😎.
@@KyTaundry welcome to orange :)
@@KyTaundry 500 hours now, still run good.
honestly if you are going to do a piston change just take the swing arm, subframe and the shock off, its so easy and makes it so much easier to take the engine off.
Hi. Question. To replace the oil seal behind the generator, do you need to split the motor or can it be done by removing the generator only from the side. Oil is leaking into the generator housing and effecting recharging.
When you would position the piston in the lower dead center you can get the cylinder off with the engine in or am i wrong ?
Chain guides and the "jug" bolts are too long too from what it looks like. Funny how all these people whining about doing this compared to a two stroke. Try taking a V8 engine apart that has 4 timing chains, balance shaft chains etc. This shit is a 2/10 for difficulty to be honest. Buy a service manual and follow it.
Great how to video. One question, if the engine had to come out to remove the head cover, then why did you reassembled the entire engine out of the bike? Did you actually managed to fit the fully assembled engine back on the bike?
No, you can remove the engine from the frame with the head on it. As I mentioned at the start of the video, I wanted to see if it's possible to overhaul the top end on the 250 with the engine in the frame (like you can on a 450, or 500). We found it can't be done.
@@TokyoOffroad thank you for explaining. Yes that does make sense, I guess I got myself confused. I have my 2018 500 exc approaching the time for a top end rebuild too. I was pleased to see your comment that the whole engine will not have to come out on my 500! Would you be interested in doing such a collaboration video at some point in 2021?
You would probably be able to remove the cylinder if you left the piston at bdc?
The issue was we couldn't remove the head because the clearance between the top of the mounting studs and the frame wasn't enough. With the piston in TDC it is still below the head (inside the cylinder), so doesn't affect the amount of clearance when removing the head. If we'd managed to remove the head while the engine was in the frame the cylinder would have come off easily, even with the piston in TDC, as the cylinder height is relatively low. I think the only way you could do it is to remove the mounting studs, but it would be very difficult to remove the internal studs with the head and cylinder installed. As such removing 250 and 350 DOHC engines really is the only practical thing to do. SOHC 450 and 500 are much easier to work on and the top end can be replaced with the engine in the frame. I previously had a 500 EXC and replaced the top end a couple of times...
Awesome job, you know the 525 engine? is difficult like this to maintein?
FEGTTTSDH - I’m very familiar with the 400/450/500 SOHC engines. They are a joy to work on. A too end overhaul can be done easily with the engine in the frame. So much easier that working on the DOHC 250/350s
Is there no small end bearing on the con rod? In the video it seems you just install the pin. @ 22:31.
Yes, the four strokes don’t use roller bearings in the small end. It’s a plain bearing (piston pin is installed directly into the conrod).
When you do a top end on a 2 or 4 stroke, do you have to get the cylinder wall honed?
For nikasil plated cylinders honing is only a requirement after replating and is performed by the replating company. At home I would not recommend honing a cylinder during a top end rebuild. Certainly if the cylinder is in good condition and cross hatching still clearly visible all that is required is to carefully clean the cylinder and reassemble. If one spot has some light damage you can carefully use some scotchbrite in a cross hatch pattern to clean up the damage and then clean thoroughly. I always aim to try to not use abrasive materials this leaving the cylinder bore size as close to original as possible. If on the other hand the cylinder bore is excessively worn (no cross hatching visible) I would recommend sending it out for replating. If this wear happened over a short operation time it may indicate an issue (leaking air box, dirt air filter, poor warm-up method, pre-mix issue)...
@@TokyoOffroad thank you for the excellent explanation. Great videos, very well done.
I did exactly this but instead of notching the wheel I matched white dots by spinning flywheel now after rr assembling my kickstart and e start are unable to turn engine over.. kickstart solid and e starter just clicks
sounds expensive. bent valves?