I Was SCARED To Say This To NASA... (But I said it anyway) - Smarter Every Day 293
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- čas přidán 2. 12. 2023
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A big thanks to the Jim Way, Executive Director of the American Astronautical Society
for Inviting me to Speak: astronautical.org/
A big thanks to The University of Alabama in Huntsville for Hosting:
www.uah.edu/
Dr. Jason Cassibry is my PhD Advisor:
www.uah.edu/eng/faculty-staff...
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This talk was given at the von Braun Space Exploration Symposium:
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What Made Apollo a Sucess? NASA SP 287
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Saturn V Quarterly Reports:
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Artemis III
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Warm Regards,
Destin - Věda a technologie
Preparing for this talk was a humbling process, as these systems are so complicated! I'm grateful for the countless conversations I had with people from all over the country in preparation for this talk.
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2:22 That is how enginers are demoted , That is why EEVblog DAVE ended in a basement :D :D That is how I ended up in the smallest and most difficult office to find in my company :D
SpaceX amount of refill rockets is ridiculous and its beyont time that people other than Thunderfoot or CommonSenseSceptic called this out.
Huh?? Jesus! what’s going on here.?!?
You nailed it. My name is Trevor, I’m an atheist, and Destin, I’m 100% sure you know what I meant by that. Well done.
You never know with the internet, but I say “a hearty a-political well done”. 👍
My comment was a result of the one before, where someone seemed to not “fallow” what the message was, and now I happily see most of us get this. The “Destin”s of the world are how we got to the Moon in the first place. Hopefully our current generation lives up to the old guard’s standards and possibly surpasses.
I have to say you possess amazing communication skills!
You are incredibly talented at presenting complex information in not only a fun and humorous way but also bringing deep and thoughtful insight into topics that otherwise people would be hesitant to talk about or even get into.
But it's not just Presenting, but also reading the room, reading the body language of the person you are interacting with, listening with an open mind, and ultimately finding that connection with that other person even if you disagree on a range of topics, Even if you have fundamentally different worldviews your ability to find that connection no matter what never ceases to amaze me!
I have to say, I'd be proud to see you in a real position of power in the industry. Even if politics isn't your thing, I totally understand. But if it were up to me, I'd absolutely nominate you to be the head of Public Relations or something for NASA.
Your Professionalism, candor, skill in communicating effectively and dealing with people from all backgrounds and walks of life are all traits of a great leader. And honestly you are someone who I'd be proud to see in such a role of leadership.
Destin, I work at NASA-JSC. Several people sent me this today. Your message is being heard. I will say that the redundancy and testing are still there, but Apollo took incredible risks that we cannot afford today. You are 100% spot on re: not relying on technological miracles. Some of the artist concepts make me wonder if all my work is in vain.
NOTE: My opinions are my own. I do not speak for NASA.
"... Apollo took incredible risks that we cannot afford today." This attitude is why NASA is a failed agency, crippled by cowardice. I recall the scene in the movie "Apollo 13" where the sniveling creep from Grumman is told, "I guess you'll get to keep your job, then." SpaceX is going places. NASA is a federal jobs boondoggle, not a space-faring agency.
Well, how many rockets will it take?
Anyone get the sense Artemis is overly complicated and filled with compromises like the shuttle was?
"Took incredible risks"
This sounds like something that is said and repeated.
List the risks taken that are too risky today.
It's not really that they took risks, but that they ignored them. Then the Apollo 1 fire killed three people. So NASA learned from that, made hundreds of changes to the spacecraft and the procedures. They mitigated the risks. When Apollo 13 suffered an accident, NASA was prepared to deal with it and get them home.
NASA forgot those lessons during the shuttle program. They started to ignore risks again. They knew the SRB o-rings were a problem, but went ahead with the launch for political reasons and killed seven people. They knew that foam hitting the wings was a problem, but failed to mitigate it and killed seven more.
We don't need to learn these lessons the hard way again. We should choose to learn from past mistakes, get things right, and avoid killing people. We can't just hand wave away problems. The number of launches needed to refuel starship is a problem, but not an insurmountable one. At least SpaceX has demonstrated the ability to reuse a booster more than 15 times. So those launches could theoretically be done with a single rocket.
On orbit refueling has yet to be demonstrated. It will have to be practiced a lot before Artemis 3.
One thing Destin didn't mention is the FAA. They are delaying SpaceX's test campaign. Of course they have good intentions, because they don't want anyone to get hurt by it. But Artemis can't afford to wait 8 months between Starship tests. The FAA needs to put starship reviews and launch licenses at top priority, so they get done as fast as possible. Starship might be able to launch 100 times on cargo missions before a human ever gets onboard. (The fact that a private company is planning to use the rocket whether NASA does or not is huge paradigm shift.)
Despite that, further delays to Artemis are a good sign, because it signals that risks are being dealt with and not ignored. We just want as little delay as possible.
Destin, you say you were scared, but the importance of the message dictated you speak up. You prepared, you read manuals and reviewed other materials, you interviewed people who knew what happened in the past -- and held on tight to your courage and conviction -- and gave a presentation that hundreds of thousands of people are excited to see! Win-win-win all around. So proud of you!
Scared, but still talking the facts..I believe it's called courage.
What he didn't says is that if you are going to use a Starship derivative to land on the moon there is no reason to have SLS/Orion involved on that mission, use a Dragon capsule to deliver them to the HLS vehicle in earth orbit. A fully refueled HLS can get then to and from earth orbit. The >billion dollar SLS launcher can be used for other missions where it accomplishes something useful, like a deep space mission.
@@k53847gos doesn’t have the range to get to and land on the moon and return to leo
@@k53847 That's incredibly simplifying how complex Orion is. Real life isn't Kerbal Space Program you know. Starship HLS is designed to be very barebones and can currently only fit TWO people. It can't even return back to LEO.
Seriously good work, great performance! In your element Destin 😑👌 You can just tell, like you said @lisawyzard4122
I am no rocket scientist, but as someone who has spoken up about problems in the workplace only to be fired later, thank you for helping to place a greater sense of value in communication. Not just for those who would speak up, but for those who need to listen.
Try deodorant
@@allahdoesnotexist3823 troll. Nobody take it seriously.
@@allahdoesnotexist3823 man you are SO FUNNY! HAHA.
cringelord. 🤦♂
Well said. I know it's a crappy experience but you should be proud because not everyone has the courage to do so.
This reminds me of Feyman's take on the Challenger disaster:
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I had a general chemistry lecture series in college given by a man who was a great fan of Feynman. His explanation of the scientific method has stood me in great stead in the 50 years since, in particular in being struck by all the unscientific offenses made in the climate controversy! Feynman's friend the late Freeman Dyson has spoken well on the climate and is well worth reading. He is a man of great depth and breadth of knowledge and experience and puts his points well. His books are available through the usual outlets and used book stores. Even if you are weak in physics.
@@tobyw9573what was his explanation?
In decades of working in Engineering I've worked with only one engineer that would hand me his design and ask me to tear it apart (a sort of pre-design review - design review). We'd later meet up in a glass walled conference room and discuss it. Often it would get quite animated. I later found out that my coworkers thought we hated one another as they took notice of our sometimes loud discussions. What they didn't know was that after those meetings we would go out to lunch together and yuk it up. In 30 years he was one of the very few engineers that had no ego and instead did whatever it took to make the design better.
That’s a great story. I wish more people were as confident to ask for someone to review and destroy their work to find flaws and make it so much better. I think more people should take that approach since it can lead to different ideas and discoveries. With this approach it forces the designer to put their best effort at the start as opposed to someone who’s overconfident and too certain of themselves.
Awesome, more should be open to criticism.
My engineering company has a process where after we make a plan, we are required to call in 3-6 "retired" guys from the company who completely tear apart everything in our plan. I think it's something more companies need to have, it's so incredibly important to have people pick apart and look at every little piece of your plan.
I worked one time (one to short of a time) with a engineer like that, great smart guy who died to young
Wow brother. That’s next level!
I was a former engineer on the Orion propulsion system working on Artemis-1, 2 and 3. All the folk in our branch used to always joke that Orion was always two years from launching but I don't think it ever really clicked for us just how big of a communication issue was going on, I realize now that a lot of us were just so compartmentalized in our work and not actually seeing the bigger picture of what we were trying to do. So thank you for getting this out into the open Destin. It's important for us to be getting that negative feedback so we can achieve more and be better engineers.
Of course the people in management realize this. It's a feature not a bug. The politicians funding you look bad if you announce you'll need several times more funding or several decades to get to the moon this way (and their political goals forbid cheaper alternatives). So the top people make sure the schedule says soon and just keeps slipping.
Nice to see somebody admit it
We have never been to the moon. Stop lying to people. People are waking up. NASA is a joke.
Or also it exposes how if a thing slips so under our control think about the problems infront that may happen after the mission is halfway through that we wont even knkw wouldve been a problem until we got to the spot where it was harder to solve problems. Its a lot ahrder to solve the problems here before they arise when theyre om the dark side of the moon but its not easy to catch all these problems. If theres already schedualing issues at a minimum.
SLS - the “Someday Launch System” 😂
As a mechanical engineer, one of my functions was to create documents for field repair of some of our products. Once I was done with the initial writing I would give it to someone for review before it was released. What I DIDN"T do was give it to another engineer or someone who was responsible for the assembly of the product. I felt that they were to close to the product and would easily miss things that I left out, because they could do the repairs in their sleep. Instead I chose a single mother home owner who could use simple hand tools and was an intelligent person, but was an office worker, not someone who built and tested things for a living. She never got through a document without me having to make some sore of change or addition. But I knew that if she could do it, any field technician could as well. I am retired now, so any writings that I do I have my wife (retired teacher) or son(s) (one is a PHd in English, not very mechanically inclined, the other an Auto Technician, who has more trouble shooting skills than anyone I have ever met) review it before I release the document. I think more people need to swallow their pride, and not be ashamed to use others to verify their work.
I'm currently replaying and studying a number of videogames from the 90s because I want to start making one of a similar type myself, and I immediately noticed the importance of that myself. So many of these old games are really hard at the beginning and I remember giving up and losing interest in them very quickly because of that when I previously tried 20 years ago. I now have more experience with these types of games and I can get through the difficulties with brute force and persistence, but it's really not fun.
Once I have become familiar enough with the games after some 10 to 15 hours, those really hard and frustrating parts really are not that difficult to replay again. But when you give them to a new player who has no familiarity, they are much too hard.
And I feel certain that these sections had only been tested by people who had already played with the game mechanics before for many hours. Those issues should have been immediately detected by anyone testing them with no prior experience of the game, and would have been trivial to fix.
Software dev is just like this. Other people can spot mistakes in your code way faster than you can.
I have seen many assembly/repair/operational manuals that were obviously written by soemone who knew the product inside and out. Total mistake, as you say, when you know it well it is easy to assume others would see the 'little things'.
Retired embedded systems software engineer here. Single best CZcams video I have ever seen.
My experience as an engineer is that there is a communication blockade at middle management. I call this the "impermeable layer" inside a company. It is a combination of the fear of embarrassment and fear of loss of power. To overcome this problem, engineers need to learn to communicate themselves. If you are kicked out of a project for talking the truth, you probably wouldn't like to be part of it.
Exactly! One of the reasons SpaceX works so quickly and successfully, is that they have people from different departments and different management levels working together. It stops one department doing a load of work on something, only to find when they pass to the next department, what they were working on isn’t viable or affordable.
It's the layer above your reporting manager (usually a principal staff engineer who transitioned into management) where things start to appear...rather beaurocratic let's say 😅
It sounds good saying that, but it boils down to "Just get fired bro", not so easy when of you're wrong, which you may be, your family is going to be without an income, you can lose your house. It puts the burden on the employee who depends on the job. The emphasis should all be on managers listening, as if they do that the cost to them is 0.
Exactly. Think of the engineer who talked about the problems with Ocean Gate, and got fired.
This is how it is everywhere. It’s a business professional problem. Childish, really.
You’re absolutely right about being kicked off, too. You wouldn’t like the project, team, or both.
Professional management power-plays and shutting down others because of embarrassments or whatever it may be is wrong and could cost companies MORE money.
If your ego takes precedence over the team’s goals, you should be exited from the project.
I'm an engineer. I have 40 years under my belt. Every single engineering problem in every single company I've worked for, especially the government (who I work for now) had its root cause in the lack of communication. It's always bothered me, I've always spoken out about it, and I've been fired because I called out some executives for their lack of it.
What you've pointed out here is 100% correct, and I hope they all listened.
FWIW, my uncle, the man who got me interested in engineering at age 9, worked on the Apollo program. It's a small world.
They might have all listened, but that does not help them ride that different bike, and 99% of them will give up trying after the first few falls, much less the months it took you without your job on the line. ;-)
PS, did you try crossing your arms and putting your hands on the 'wrong' hand-grip? (I think it might be easier to learn that way.)
@@you2tooyou2too The problem with that is you don't get the arm extension and movement you need for good control.
This reminds me of the first time I rode a three-wheeler after years of rising a motorcycle. I almost ran into a wall because I tried to steer it like a motorcycle.
As an engineer, getting fired is part of the cost of doing your job. No matter what, you have to hold the safety and general health of the public paramount. Bad engineering kills people-chemical engineers can kill people, computer engineers can kill people, mechanical engineers can DEFINITELY kill people-and those problems you raised are the source of bad engineering. You did the right thing.
@johnmoser3594 I was fired from my last job for fixing issues I found with my boss' code. It was a good thing though, as the result was a new job with a better contractor, two tiers higher, with a significant increase in pay. As well, my old boss and the director were demoted, other's fired, and I believe the company fined.
Does he remember how they made the radiation shields for the Van Allen belt? The Artemis mission needs it
I once overheard some collegues talking about a test that kept failing. They could not figure out why, so they deleted it. I was like: "I hope you can hear how wrong you guys sound".
Watching this a second time, I remembered what an OHS Consultant told me what a lot of his work entailed. A company with a work injury problem would employ him to suggest problem fixes. He would go to the factory floor, ask the workers what the problem was and if they had any ideas on how to fix it. He would take those fixes, write them up in "Managementese language" and present them with a bill for consultancy. His point was that management's reluctance to accept that workers knew their job better than others, led to a breakdown in communication which hampered problem solving.
Destin, I work as a researcher at Purdue University, alma mater of Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee. The focus of my research is in space mission architectures. Multiple people (from my lab) sent me your video this week.
Rest assured that, in academia, your words will also be used to carry out more in-depth investigations about the impact of the Artemis decisions and alternatives for future missions.
Thank you for your bold presentation.
Hey! Really random I know, but is there anywhere I can find out some more about what you do? I’m really curious 😂
Seems Destin just wants up to go back to the 1960's especially with his hypergolic fuel comment. Hypergolic are not efficient Toxic and difficult to handle and we are innovating with starship seems like yall just want another SatV and Apollo with 0 innovation
It just blew.
@@user-ng8iv6fh6b
And what exactly is wrong with backup alternative, however not efficient and toxic it may be? Innovation - sure! But if I was in that rocket and all innovation blows up (and it does for whatever reason more often than you think) I would love to have some 0 innovation, not efficient toxic, difficult to handle hypergolic fuel on board to save my a**
@@bv1970 Lol bro what do you mean blow up? Falcon 9 is the safest rocket to exist on earth with a turn around time of just 5 days for a relaunch of a F9 booster. How much safer will a Starship be after all of the protypes are finished there. Starship will be like landing house on the Moon remember we are going back to the moon to stay and build actual bases on the moon there will be many starships landed on the moon before they send actual humans bro. Space X has the best Aerospace engineers in the world bud i think they know whatthey are doing
Destin,
I’m a 43 yr old principal data engineer in Huntsville. I’ve followed your channel for a little over 2 years, and this was the best video I’ve seen. My mom works on the ARTEMIS program as well. I’ve worked with everything from an IT side, but I couldn’t believe how much a lot of your logic tied into the same problems we have. Just here I’ve worked RDEC, LOGSA, MDA. If you ever have a few minutes to talk, let me know!.
BYW, the tractor pull video and the metal stamping video were some of the best I’ve seen.
The tractor pull video was fantastic. Tell your mom I appreciate her and her colleague’s efforts, and that I’m rooting for y’all. And I’m not just saying that because I have a soft spot for Huntsville!
Tell your mom that I am really looking forward to Moon mission! I wasn't alive for the Apollo missions and I have dreamed of the day when we return! I hooe it is soon!
Looking forward to the collab / interview / video that is the follow up to this comment!
@@blakerh thank you! Will do!
I'm here because the Common Sense Skeptic mentioned this video in his. This was so well worth the watch.
What video? I love channels like this. I'll check the channel out
Me too!
They are 👎in the bj😢o as the rate marker they
@@hypeflexington7081 Part 4 of the Space Race video series they recently put out.
@hypeflexington7081 the newest video "Billionaire v. Billionaire Supercut"
I saw your face pop up on thunderfoot and was scared for a second. I'm so glad that you were able to articulate these things in such a way to get such high praise.
Keep up the amazing work!
I doubt he likes to be associated with Philip I like to burn books E. Mason
lol same!
Philip I like to burn book E. Mason is not someone whom you want to seek approval from. He is no better than people he criticised.
@@Wingedshadowwolf Thunderf00T is not someone with much credibility , though. His approval might be more of a scarlet letter.
If Thunderf00t is criticism, grounded or not... why are you scared of it, while the whole purpose of this video is to convince engineers that the feedbackloop that enables selfregulation doesn't work with only positive feedback. The only reasonable fear would be that you loose your (political) piggybank because of criticism reaching the general public, and you are only on the project to benefit from stuff you learn on sideprojects. Ie. your maingoal was/is never your maingoal to achieve. Destin never revisitted these issues, while polishing up the hard work at Nasa with his next video's. The most ethical goal left to do, would be to figure out at what point it's optimal to (public) fail the maingoal, and save the science from the bonfire.
I’m not engineering literal life and death systems for a living, but as a software engineer this really resonated. I think this may be the single smartest thing I’ve ever watched on CZcams. Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud!
Absolutely. Destin has voiced something that has been plaguing me for years, and he's done it so well. I really hope he follows it up with another shorter video based on his typical template, because so many more people need to appreciate it.
I've worked in nuclear, payments, insurance, telecommunications, medical, and half a dozen other domains. The communication issue persists across technical, non-technical, executives and general staff, in government, academia, and every form of business new and established.
Some ways I've tried to make my point (though I'm going to steal from Destin in the future!):
* Shout to the cheap seats. You make a system change? You make sure every stakeholder far and wide can understand as easily as possible whether it affects them.
* Siloes are made to be emptied, their contents transferred. Don't sit on information, or questions, or concerns, it's just going to rot. Don't let your pride, or fear, or uncertainty, spoil the entire silo.
After 25 years in software, I've experienced the exact things Destin described. It's far too common for there to be simple communication failures, and there are too many organizations where they're more concerned with maintaining the hierarchy and status quo than they are with knowing the truth. It can be very frustrating.
Companies are like complex systems; if one thing is wrong, it can have a significant impact on the system as a whole. I've sat in too many meetings where I knew the topic (or the people) was problematic in some way. Unfortunately, even when you speak the truth, there are occasions where powerful people don't want to hear it, and then all you can do is watch the system slowly fail.
I really hope the people at NASA took Destin's words to heart.
I'm also a software engineer, but to be honest, I think KISS (which is part of what Destin pleads for) is way more entrenched in software engineering than it is in mechanical engineering. This is probably due to the fact that most if not all of the software we write has to be mathematically correct, meaning we have to be able to prove the correctness of every function we write, which in turn results in as little complexity on the individual function level as possible, because we have to understand it to perfect it (leaving aside ML which in my opinion is whole other topic).
Mathematical perfection cannot be achieved in real life engineering. This is due to the fact that there's indefinitely more variables in real life systems (for example worksmanship, material quality, environmental factors etc.) than there is in computer systems. This leads to engineers having to pick their battles because accounting for everything is impossible anyways and this is where things can go wrong. Because sometimes this focus on specific aspects turns into obsession so that resetting the focus or reevaluating the problem goes out of the window. It's hard to stress enough how neccessary a fresh perspective can be in these kinds of situations.
@@B20C0 _"...most if not all of the software we write has to be mathematically correct, meaning we have to be able to prove the correctness of every function we write"_
Where do you work?! 😳
Ok, I'm kinda poking fun, but what do you mean by "prove the correctness"? If you're just talking about writing tests, I've seen the exact scenario Destin described on numerous occasions, i.e., if the test doesn't pass, delete/change the test.
The real problem is that we're often chasing some arbitrary (i.e., not truly necessary) deadline, so as we scramble to meet it, we often cut corners instead of pushing back and saying, "We can't safely do what you're asking by the date you're asking." It's the famous triangle of time, scope, and cost. Funny how famous that triangle is yet how often it's ignored.
NASA Scientists hate this one weird trick...
Haiyaa
@@kunalarora9116I'm sorry to hear that
What is that?
NASA space exploration gone wrong!
@@kunalarora9116what she commented? Your home address and full legal name?
The whole Lunar Gateway idea looked ridiculous at first glance, and even worse under scrutiny.
Whenever I see something in a government agency that is more complex or complicated than it needs to be ill ask myself "who benefits financially from it being this way"?
SpaceX
@@jgcondron Ah yes, SpaceX, the company with a fixed price contract (I.E no re-negotiating for more) worth $3 billion are definitely the main beneficiary here.
It's definitely not Boeing and Lockheed who have so far gotten about $25 billion *each* from NASA, and continue to get a combined $4 billion for each year Artemis drags on.
@@lazarus2691 Of course SpaceX stands to benefit, because once the project deadlines inevitably slip they will almost certainly get a renewed/new contract due to the revolving door they already have in place between them and the agency responsible for granting their contracts. Don't let your veneration of SpaceX cause you to ignore the obvious.
@@gas33z SpaceX have been working with NASA for 18 years now. In all that time they've never once renegotiated the price of a contract after signing it.
When they went over budget on Crew Dragon they ate the loss, rather than asking NASA for additional funds. (Unlike Boeing with Starliner).
Maybe this time will turn out the exception. Or maybe not. I don't know. But neither do you, so you saying they're the ones benefiting when they haven't yet done so, and may never, is pure conjecture on your behalf. At least I have historical precedent on my side.
This is not a condescending talk, this is a pep talk. It is incredible how you communicate your message. "If you loose your job because of the hard questions you ask, good for you!'. That is tough but the truth. If you don't ask the hard questions people are going to die. A strong message indeed. Thank you Destin as always, a very good video and a brilliant talk.
I hope there is a change in the organisational structure that can work instead of good people taking personal risk for the program.
Losing your job based on principle will follow you all of your life. If you keep a job, but abandon your principles, this will also follow you all your life. Being followed by your demons is not how you want to live life...
@crystalfire6677 Are you smarter than a fifth grader, nasa's big risk...
Admitting china and India use contradictory Moon cgi.?
Stage production Nasa only sends a monkeys mind into
space with Dunning Kruger's who corroborate their cgi BS.
At least it's on the record as being put forth.
@@DESOUSAB Yeah right, imagine you hesitated to argue a problem and in the end it took a life, man that would be devastating for your life as well. Be honest and fight mishaps even if means loosing your job.
I love how the video timeline, described from 14:30, actually describes the presentation. That the presentation started with personality & low complexity, then ramped up the complexity and lowered the personality, and finished with a return to high personality & low complexity. Destin actually modelled the behaviour in his presentation to NASA.
Yes, that was brilliant and especially for *this* presentation. It really forced the audience to engage at multiple levels.
Otaaaay
That was the most meta part about his presentation, great presentation that described his presentation to talk about his presentation.
The moment he showed that in the presentation, it was very clear that's how the presentation itself is going to go.
Thanks so much for putting a picture of the crew in your presentation. It seems like for many this is nothing more than a vanity project, remembering the crew is the primary mission is an absolute must. What an interesting and informative discussion, thanks so much for posting!
I worked as a bicycle mechanic for almost a decade and the guy I first trained under was honestly the best within a 200 mile radius of our shop. He still had me test ride and give feedback on every bike he worked on after he deemed the repair complete. If I thought something was off he would address it and explain to me either how/why he had failed to catch what was causing the particular issue or explain why what I had noticed was within acceptable parameters for that particular work order. There was never any negative emotions associated with feedback. We would always check each other's work and took pride in collectively doing the best job we could possibly do. That experience taught me so much on what I wanted my working relationships to look like. It doesn't matter how good you are as an individual, you will always be best as a collective with a unified goal. That only works, though, if you're humble enough to say "Hey, new guy. Tell me what you think about this"
This talk is so meta… Destin is giving the audience a rundown of how his talks work, while he’s giving a talk to them. Awesome. On so many levels.
Not the point, though.
@@numbereightysevenOfc it's not the point, just a really cool observation.
Did you catch the machiavellian aforethought as a fisher of politicians, demonstrating his acumen in the field?
Me thinks an office could be getting the eye
i just watched a 1 hour talk. and it felt like 5 minutes, not once was i bored or got lost in the words, incredible
you are right, I had no idea the video were that long until I saw this comment, It felt more like the standard 20 - 30 minute video.
Me too, Destin is incredible
I almost didn't watch it because of how long it was, but I 100% agree. It did not feel like an hour, nor was I bored at any moment during it. Destin is an incredible speaker and this was a great video.
Same here. I hesitated in the beginning because I saw that it was about an hour long. And it felt like it was over too soon and kept me longing for more! brilliant.
U just got boosted by thundef00t my man.
Bravo for speaking out.
I watch Destin when he pops up in my feed but I didn't remember seeing this video until Thunderf00t released his the other day giving Destin Kudos for saying what we're all thinking. A lot of people can't hear Thunderf00t 's message because of his approach to a topic but Destin did this brilliantly. He insulted almost everyone in the room and got away with it because everything he said was true and he laid it out in plain and simple language. They know there are major problems with the current Artemis mission plans (and they know he knows they know it).
The million dollar question is, what are they going to do about it?
Not the best boast, in my eyes... I don't find his approach scientific... He arrives to each video knowing he'll tear it down to the best of his ability... He really doesn't ADD anything ever... And a lot of the stuff he says is just blatantly wrong or half-truths... - In my opinion he could be a WAY better channel...
Boosted? More like Philip I like to burn books Mason is just clout chasing on a far more successful creator with actual credibility . Destin have milli0n more view and follower than that hack who calls himself thundef00t .
@@xLunday Unlike Philip Mason who lies and misrepresent data to further his views, Destin is a person with credibility .
Boosted? Destin have millions more view and follower than that hack who calls himself thundef00t . More like Philip "I like to burn books" Mason is just Clout Chasing on a far more successful creator with actual credibility .
I worked for a high tech firm that built amazing products for markets that bought billions of dollars of our stuff. Then, over time, we became a company where people were afraid to tell the truth. Nortel no longer exists.
I wasn't expecting to watch a whole 1-hour lecture, yet you managed to keep me thoroughly engaged. Hope you really made a difference back there
Same here
Same here also. Really made points we should all take into consideration.
He is a very good CZcamsr.
you have a lot more patience than me...I only lasted about One minute
it appeared to me to be just Click Bait
Plus I noticed he's begging for patreon bucks as well and if he's just a click bait patrean begger why would NASA
care what he has to say,..cuz I sure don't
same here!
Destin, this is by far my most favorite of all your videos I have ever seen. I have new level of respect of you after watching this. I enjoyed every second. For those that did not spot it. This was a Masterclass in asking very hard questions in a gentle way. You expertly framed it as a communications issue with no finger pointing. I have been a consultant in strategic IT solutions for more years than I would like to confess and asking these sorts of hard questions, without offending, is not an easy thing to do. It was so brave of you to stand up in front these people and say the things you did! One thing I have learnt over the years is that keep things simple and "if you think it, say it". Don’t be afraid. Great Job!
Agree with you. There are many hard technical problems, but pretty quickly the challenges start getting hard because of the exponential complexity of the system and the number or people involved. There is a reason that KISS is a real rule, and if you don't follow it you'll be the last S. There's inspiring (you don't need to do), there's leading (you should also be able to do), and there's communicating (which feels like it's preventing you from doing) and all of them are needed to solve big problems.
I really was amazed by how well Dustin brought the audience in, established himself, amazed them, then shamed them, and built them back up. That takes skill (comes with experience I guess). They should be scared, they are sending people into space and spending billions of $, but they should be proud too!
Well said my friend! Destin made a very powerful presentation. I wonder how many of those present have now read document SP287 "What made Apollo a success" ?
I’m work in aerospace engineering and I can tell you straight up that almost anytime I’ve encountered any failure with design, testing, manufacturing, etc. it ultimately ended up being a communication issue. It’s always extremely frustrating because it’s the most avoidable type of issue in hindsight.
Destin, I am a dad and I took great inspiration from what I think is the most important point and conveyed it to my two teenage sons. Criticism is GOOD (cosntructive), asking questions is really good GOOD, and not being afraid of risking the consequencse to stand up for your assessment of a qualified gut feeling that something is off - or plain wrong - is best - I am glad you didn't chicken out on this one and I am particularly glad I could use this as a constructive example to show what I mean when I tell my kids: You gotta speak up, ot no one will know!
Destin out here taking social risks for other people's physical risks. What a legend.
This seems a bit unfair. Most of us have careers that we've worked very, very hard to build. Very few in the engineering world (be it hardware, software, etc) have been in situations where there was a difficult political element to improving the product. Some step up and carefully do the right thing, others play it safe and stay quiet. Destin did the former. I sincerely doubt he would ever equate the risk he's taking with those of our astronauts.
Going to guess you're having a bad morning.
I’m so proud of him. His talk may have worked already. The US government accountability office announced a few days ago that Artemis 3 is likely to be delayed a few years mainly because of the exact issues he mentioned, the HLS refueling issue.
It almost seems to me, that with this magnitude of incompetence, that the powers that be just don't care. They know they have so many problems, that no one person thinks they can or actually can turn it around. I worked at KSC during the early phases of this program and heard even non-technical people for one of the major contractors talking about these issues all the time, BUT, they were not on the design team, did not have the ear of the program manager, too far away from NASA HQ and were too late in the stack process to be taken seriously. In other words, it was all ignored common sense.
☝This comment is what I came here to say
More people need to be brave like Destin. Competent and courageous just like him.
I can’t believe I watched and understood a talk given to the smartest people on earth. I’m a farmer with ADHD and can’t sit in a 15 minute meeting without getting distracted. You prepared yourself in a way that very few can and I was engaged the whole time. I needed a teacher like this growing up and today. The world is a better place with you and 51:56 this channel. Thank you for sharing the whole message!
Well said. This is a top CZcams channel by a great person!
Hey man, also a farmer with adhd. We are some of the smartest guys on earth man. We have alot of time to build knowledge, and that turns our adhd into a super power. Idk about you but im constantly learning things while im farming. Embrace your genius friend.
I'm the exact same, can't stand videos longer than 15min... stayed the whole hour and even watched through the ads... fantastic video
Hey man, back in the day farmers with whatever goin on were who built NASA.
You are a champ doing rocket science too, god only knows what the next decades will bring!
I choose not to believe in ADHD. Doctors don’t know much about anything. Pharma don’t know much either. Lifetime of Meds can’t be healthy
I'm no engineer, I'm at best a tinkerer, but there is some real gold in this. Especially the "Back to the future" thing. We can make small tiny changes that influence massive things in the future! Loved this. It's so empowering and motivational!
@57:00 I know that feeling - flying RC planes, as the plane is heading back toward you, you instinctively expect the ailerons to work as they would when you and the plane face the same direction. But the left wing going away is not the right wing coming toward you. It takes a few hours of flight for new RC pilots to start getting used to it.
this is EXACTLY what the internet is at its best. No trolls in the comments (or I just didn't scroll down far enough), just thousands sharing how you have lifted them, inspired them and encouraged them. Bless you for doing what you do and sharing sharing that with us all.
Somehow I'm seeing this comment 1 minute after you made it. No trolls in sight. Awesome community or youtube finally got something right
In a way, the sentiment in your post is kind of the problem Destin was talking about with communication. Communication does not need to always be pretty. It can be messy. If everyone who dissents feels like they are going to be called a troll for dissenting then you end up with the problem he outlined. Destin wants the negative feedback. Not all negative feedback is trolling.
CZcams now hides more of the trolling and negative comments - again, based on an algorithm of what it deems to be positive and relevant to the video's content or what other people will agree on.
This is to try and promote a more positive experience on CZcams, for the creators and the community. But they obviously haven't seen Destin's talk on the PID control loop, where you need negative feedback! Although, in my opinion, a lot of communities (especially Reddit) have a bit of a hive mind, where someone will be ridiculed and bullied if they have an opinion different to a majority's, so I kinda get it.
Destin, worked for NASA recently and raised these questions. You're spot on, politics play a huge role in every architecture decision. Only the most bold leaders are willing to stand up to the politicians and say the hard truths. They're out there, some in the right places, some buried under bureaucracy.
There's definitely a balance between "tech push" and "flight proven". A tech advocate said "The problem is, as it stands right now, you can't fly a robot in space until you've flown that robot in space." But the other side of that coin is, as you said, relying on "this has never been done before" mission-critical components like cryogenic fluid transfer on-orbit.
The question is: How do you balance these two wisely? By letting people raise their concerns (both ways) in a professional manner, and actually listening to them.
I moved from engineering to management and meetings I’m in now ale full of politics and money, and although I was embarrassed I got to convey problems that I predicted. Not without my boss kicking me in my leg. (Once:) Communication, yes
"standing up to the people who literally fund your organisation isn't easy. IT also doesn't change anything ususally. dealing with politics is slow hard and tedious work. . Especially since you BOTH are completely dependent on public support.
At least the stupid SpaceX hype has created much more support and public interest into space flight. So getting out of it to save money isn't the most popular option anymore. Ir definitely was wehn Apollo ended and the Shuttle program was castrated into near uselessness.
To be fair to politicians, it is their job to do something out of mutually conflicting goals. But if you don't tell them anything about those goals, they will never know or assume about them incorrectly.
Is this communications issue related to DEI?
Ofc politics is involved. If you dont play politics you dont get a budget. And no budget no program. Its that simple.
Hands down, this channel is what we need more of in the world. Thank you for teaching and captivating people around the globe for years and more to come. You are a Saint of knowledge and teaching that will be solidified in history for intriguing the minds of the world to take what you've done further. 1 billion out of 10 human being right here. Protect him at all costs!!
Excellent work brother, well said in a risky environment. Expect an uptick in views, you're in a thunderf00t video for all the best reasons. I'd never expect anything less from you.
Dude, you rock! I'm an old engineer and I watch your videos with great pleasure. I have to say this is your absolute best ever and I believe to be the most consequential. You moved the cup. Lives will have been saved because of this. I wish you all the success you deserve.
i agree
That cup metaphor was really clever
I don't know why I often forget how awesome he is. Its like every time I remember and come back hes like 10x more awesome
This was so so good. Thank you for fighting the algorithm and posting the full presentation.
Seeing as this has almost 1 million views in a day, I don't think the algorithm is a problem.
@@dyanosis a testament to great content
Such authenticity in a world of short life spans propelled by 'shorts' is truly appreciated. I am not a good engineer but your videos have taught me to strengthen the parts of me that I know are good. I think that is what I want for myself and I definitely want more of your videos.
Made it here from Thunderf00t's new video and... Really glad I did. Thanks for the talk.
You should stop watching Thunderf00t.
@@remliqa Nice thought experiment channel.
Halfway between braindead and educational. I learnt the hard way to only ever watch that channel by accident, not regularly.
@@remliqa Not a chance. Tf00t is awesome. When I see people who cut him down, they're usually musk fanboys or religious people. In other words. Ppl to ignore their opinions
@@tommy605The guys is a hypocrite who is bad as the people he criticises. Scott Manley despises him and probably Destin too if he knows him. He cherry picks data and literally spread misinformation to criticize field he have zero expertise in such as his hate boner for NASA, battery and EV tech and of course everyone favourite lolcow, Elon Musk' venture . Many of his video on those topic were embarrassingly bad and have been debunked by more reputable channel such as Engineering Explained .Remember when he accused a Nobel laureate of being a fraud? Or when he think people store hydrogen in it liquid form for HFEV an small scale storage? Or him lying about Space X, there are many of of those oops moments.
Even when he is given easy target such as the EM drive or Chernobyl series inaccuracies, his penchant for arguing in bad faith ensures that he missed the mark on them. His lack of integrity is why he doesn't deserve the praise his fans lauded on him.
@@tommy605I seems my previous takedown of Phillip E. Mason got yeeted by youtube for unknown reasons , again. Let repost it into multiple chunks to see what words triggered the yeet algorithm.
As a former Quality engineer for a supplier for the Artemis program, this brings a lot of clarity to some of the issues we ran into. This is definitely my favorite SED video.
I finished the whole hour and I’m kind of shocked. The message here is bigger than just Artemis and the way you convey it is important. Thanks for this!
It was interesting how he mentioned an Apollo document Artemis people should be familiar with. I am not surprised that no one has read it. I just finished the book "Homesteading Space" which covers Project Skylab, and guess what no one read the findings from that program either when ISS was being developed. NASA made the same mistakes on ISS, when it came to some of the interior design and locations of equipment, airlocks etc. It was really an interesting book.
You're absolutely right. It is INCREDIBLY important.. in all walks of life.
Exactly. This is what influencing is really about.
Amid the glut of gee-whizzery, grifting and plain ignorance surrounding our return to the moon on line this is easily the most important contribution to this effort I’ve seen happen here, where schmucks like me come to pass the time. Thank you man, this was brave, and refreshing, and honest and basically everything science and communication should be. Sustained applause!
He says "keep focused on the mission". But what really is the mission here?
I often feel that the entire goal of the undertaking really is all about demonstrating new technologies.
Getting people to the moon is not much of a mission goal. Getting people to the moon so they can do something there would be. Otherwise, this is all a technology demonstration.
Civilization needs you more than culture does.
I'm so excited to see your future content.
Interesting. Care to expand?
I think you really nailed the negative feedback problem in the current internet ecosystem. CZcams dislikes are the most direct example to everyone watching this video
I would have never thought I'd hear a comparison between youtube dislikes and a feedback loop for a PID-controller, but it is true 😀
@@blackkissi i wrote my comment before he mentioned the controller, to be honest. I was already thinking about it and it came naturally after that
You absolutely nailed it!
Hey, it came from the same dude that ran away from public discourse and tried (probably would still be trying if they were a thing now) to push NFTs on YT and is the brains behind some of the worst decisions at YT. YT's CEO saga is the exemplification of "out from the frying pan and into the fire".
@@snarkyliveno it was to protect political messages that mass amounts of viewers disagree with.
I love the Destin managed to get his dad at least 2 maybe 3 rounds of applause for his dad from some of the greatest minds in aerospace just by saying "this is my dad' 😂
His dad has more "NASA experience" than most of that room lol
@@zequilomogamer'Greatest minds in aerospace' no longer impresses anyone smart. NASA has been politically and socially corrupted for decades now.
Also it's just beautiful and respectable to see them having such a good father-son relationship :)
It's almost like that Spongebob scene where Spongebob appears on stage for a second and everyone applauds.
I know , so very cool !
I'm here from Common Sense Skeptic's HLS series - mad respect for taking the harder right over the easier wrong, calling out BS.
46:28 after boltcutters: *GO OUT AND PUSH REAL HARD* 🤣
Great talk, Dr. I am an old MD, trauma surgeon and health systems manager and today I learned a lot of interesting things suitable to be applied on risky procedures and plans. I’ve got smarter this day.
A lot of good advice for MANY occupations and processes.
Your Dad must be so proud sitting in the room watching you do this!
You are awesome Destin!
This needed to be heard, I hope that you had an impact!! These principles go way beyond just space missions. This advice can be taken for many many different things in life. Thanks for having the guts and the thoughtfulness fir doing this.
not accepting negative feedback is what made a certain CEO a literall paste for fish to eat near the wreckage of the Titanic
Didn't expect myself to go through the whole hour-long video, but man was your talk captivating!
The way you carry the presentation, throwing in humor in places to bring the tone back up in serious moments, and the hard-hitting points you bring, especially that one about time travelling, where we don't think about our actions as having as big a gravitas as it does on the future. I think everyone in the audience appreciates this talk, even if it meant rubbing them in the wrong way.
Also, I can't stress how grateful I am to see someone with enough qualification to be in that room, delivering a speech of this caliber to an audience of the smartest minds, bringing up the truth in this world where everyone prefers to talk less. You truly are a gem in the society of science, man!
This video has also inspired me in many ways other than to just be more open in communication, thanks a ton!
❤❤❤
As a federal employee in an aviation related capacity, I applaud you speaking about the ELEPHANT in the room! This talk applies to everything, not just NASA! There are too many "yes men" and not enough critical thinkers in government/management especially!
I lost a job after my negative feedback. Trying to do the job correctly in light aircraft maintenance.
A lack of negative feedback = chernobyl.
Dont be negative if you need promotion.
Thats corporate.
@@dashmeetsingh9679 Whats your point? The point was simply a system that doesnt allow negative feedback leads to failure. The same thing is true with the chinese communist party. This is part of the reason communist leadership structures always fail.
@@asgardian6638 Communism or Capitalism does not mean no negative feedback. But it gets built into system.
Incase of communism it happens at really fast pace, due to nature of how communism is usually achieved(personality cults of revolutionaries).
In capitalism when organizations starts to grow big, disagreeing with boss's vision of hypergrowth at all cost necessary, will stop one's career growth. Hence individuals, stops giving their negative feedback.
In comment section, I wont be able dwell much more than this. As it will involve some long explanations.
Hope I was able to convey my thoughts.
@@dashmeetsingh9679 Ok you're not understanding me. In chernobyl the reason the plants melted down is because they are afraid to give their superiors any bad news (negative feedback). The same is true in china. Thats really all i was saying. Yes thats true in capitalism to a point, however in communism they're afraid of being killed for bad news, not simply fired. I dont know why you found it necessary to make this more complicated than i was saying though. All i was saying is yes, just like this video, no negative feedback was the reason for the melt down. Thats all, and its true...wow that we had to go through this.
@@asgardian6638 ah! context is important. LoL
I'm a 72 year old grandmother. I love to learn something new every day. I loved this video. I can apply this to so many thing. I can learn to speak up when things are going the wrong way.
Sigh unzips.
@@kcufhctib204 ???????? WHAT
@@kcufhctib204 But he didn't know a thing about the 2024 Atlantean event coming to everyone's neighborhood soon...It will be all over before 2025..
World population, perhaps 2 billion..
@@marcgottlieb9579 lol
@@marcgottlieb9579 sounds like a generous number. Thought we were gonna end up at 500 million.
I would have never thought I would watch a 1h+ lecture on Christmas morning. One of the best presentations ever. Critical negative feedback is super important. I would say to all, start using this in your own field. If you are in charge of something, make sure the whole team knows that it's ok to give negative feedback. When the atmosphere doesn't allow negative feedback, people may hide important info or cover their mistakes because of fear.
I was thinking how inspiring this could be to many other fields, not just aerospace. Generation after generation tend to dismiss or ignore the experience of the previous generation and end up “reinventing the wheel” instead of improving it.
same....
Same
Watching this Christmas evening, but same
I would like to hope for the best, but tradition and inertia do not add optimism. Those who move to the top of the management pyramid are primarily people whose minds are mainly focused on diligently following the instructions of their superiors, flirting with the public and pandering to their expectations. The system is ossified and strengthens itself from generation to generation.
The "how many rockets?" with the rick about to burp voice cracked me up.
My favorite part of this talk is how every time you say "...that's very interesting!" you can replace it with "...that's very stupid". I think all of your audience knew that. You say that preparing for this speech was humbling for you. I think most of your audience left that day more humbled than you were. Great job on this
Thank you Destin. This inspiring message comes to me just when I need it. I'm an aeronautical engineer myself and I have some very bad news to give my team tomorrow. Just like your example I will be faced with managers with a schedule they want to keep, and technicians whose work did not meet the standard. The safety issue implicated will make this discussion very tense and it will only be resolved if I don't back down, meanwhile I have to give them what they need to understand and make the new plan work. Your approach will prove to be helpful to at least one more aeronautical engineer out there. This is one of your best episodes IMO.
Please let us know how the meeting goes and how they receive your feedback 🙏 maybe make them all watch this video first 😂
Very nice words. Good luck tomorrow.
Good luck!
A nice trick is to end your explanation with a call to action that focuses on finding the solution. Such as "I know we have a great team here, I'm looking forward to everyone's ideas on the solution."
Good luck and God speed.
@@calebpurvis6195 you're right, I did just that. Meetings almost wrapped up but without the follow-up action decided yet, so I kept people in their chairs until it was decided
I needed to hear this. Not an engineer, but negative feedback is just as important for me and my team. Didn’t realize I’d been avoiding it for years until I watched your talk. Thank you.
Negative feedback is your friend, but sometimes difficult to hear.
I think there's 2 problems. First main problem is that people often get upset if their viewpoint/opinion is challenged which causes people to want to make waves. No pun intended there. Second one is that many people don't know how to challenge someone's opinion/viewpoint/design/etc... in a nonconfrontational way. Best way I've found is if you think there's a flaw then instead of just pointing out the flaw instead try asking a question. Example: Let's say someone thinks the carburetor on an engine is broken but you think it's fine. Instead of saying "no the carburetor is fine" try saying "is there anything at all besides the carburetor that it could possibly be?"
@@shadowprince4482 Effective and accurate communication is a skill that needs to be trained as most things in life.
@@shadowprince4482 The leading question is an incredibly powerful tool. Another tool I like to use "playing dumb" to get the other side to explain there whole reasoning. (because often there are hidden assumptions driving decisions and it best to make everyone aware of them)
Opened my eyes, thank you this was very appreciated, appreciate more knowledge even at my age 87.
Dustin. Well I have worked in nuclear power plants for most of my life. A lot of our work is procedure driven along with meetings and appropriate paperwork. I see a lot of things occur in your job as it did mine. I found your lecture to be quite interesting and I'm glad nobody got hurt on the bike. 😊
I’m a healthcare IT program manager. I deal with risk and bureaucracies every day. I understand the problems that you were pointing out. I’m sure they were a ton of people in that audience that were relieved that you finally said the truth. Although it seems like this was just one talk, I bet it will have a rippling effect to really assure that our program to the moon actually works and happens. Thank you for doing extra work and due diligence.
he did them a huge favor. he made it ok for them to talk about specifically relevant stuff they may have been too afraid to broach. sometimes (maybe most times) you really need a neutral third-party to clear the air
The fear is that if they talk about it, they will never have a chance to work in the industry.
The worst part of industries is to point out best practices. The HRs would blacklist resources that criticised companies before. They take it as a red flag no matter how competent the resource is.
The politics that play on highend jobs plays a big role in who gets which title and responsibilities at the end.
This is why he did break the ice and did a huge favour to them by simply coming in and rattle the hive. Ofc someone would be behind this and these things do not happen on it's own.
The point of this video was to make stakeholders realize about engineers perspective so stakeholders do not rush about things they do not understand.
It's good to have 3rd party coming in and create questions that are healthy. Take this as highend, well planned and well thought consultation that would reflect throughout this mission now.
Unfortunately, the additional unspoken truth is that Artemis is a contract generation program as much as it's a moon program.
The value of the contract dollars lost, were anyone to take Destin's advice seriously, will forbid any changes or simplification.
Congress decides the architecture just a tiny bit less than NASA. Try changing anything which removes a contractor in any Senator's district and watch how fast you find yourself working on cropduster engines in Iowa.
@kryptonite365 a 3rd party isn't (shouldn't be) really needed if the first two are being honest and being adults about it. There shouldn't be any egos bruised if there is intellectual and emotional honesty. The fact that Destin had to give this talk is very telling. It's good he made them squirm. I've seen what happens when ground combat missions are planned based of careers and egos. Headstones get added at Arlington. The families would rather not have shadow boxes full of medals on the mantle
That took balls of steel and a heart of gold. You left me gobsmacked. Destin, you do a wonderful job of making us smarter every day, but the communication skills you demonstrate in this presentation, with the nuance required for this specific audience and context, are absolutely over the top. The message you give is profoundly important, likely to many lives; and you nailed it.
I almost just skipped over this video because I thought it would be all talk, but it was quite interesting. Glad I didn't skip it.
Here due to thunderf00t. Thank you for doing this.
Why are you proud of that? The guy is a hack
@@lodiped ad hominem much?
@@walrusdestruction6845 Yes. Very much so. I don't intend to discuss. This was indeed just an attack. Very observant of you my dear intellectual lmao
@@lodiped Yea and he gets lazy in Musk videos. Still, such people are needed.
I am not a rocket scientist but listening to this was one of the best spent hours of my life. Thank you.
I didn't think I'd sit through this whole video but I'm so glad I did. This was great, I hope all those folks in the room with you took your insight and words all to heart.
I just did the thing where I watched it without looking at the duration so didn’t realize how long it was until about halfway lol
It is a long time I'm watching you ... this is the most important video you did. For every engineer in every project.
Thunderf00t sent me here.
real engineering is much more than just drawing stuff, it's thinking things through fearlessly 🙂
As an aerospace engineer, and someone that somewhat prides myself on effective communication and effective project management, I'm blown away. I believe this will go down as one of the most impactful talks in NASA's history. Just incredibly well structured, and spectacular use of very accessible, real-world examples.
As a young engineer, I thank the brave people like you who make me want to change the world. Your speech in this video truly spoke to me and promise you that although it was uncomfortable it was not in vain. Thank you man
You solved declining EROEI?
It ain't easy to change a world, filled with old farts that hate change...
As an engineer myself with some work experience, I wish you a lot of luck!
Old farts? Hmmm...so bc destin is relatively young, his perspective is correct? Truth is not the perview of any generation. Comments like that only create discourse. You're elders do hold wisdom you may want to consult.
@@kidcasco1966 "You're elders..." Ok boomer, what's the solution to declining EROEI?
@@kidcasco1966 Sure, I agree that senior people hold a lot of wisdom.
I'm in my early thirties, yet I contact my parents the second I have some questions they may know the answer too.
That being said! I've worked with some semi retired 70+ years old engineers and scientists, who just refuse to quit their jobs. Those people where very respectful towards young people, and their ideas. I've also worked with a ton of 50 to 70 year old colleagues, they're usually the worst! They always think they know best, are disrespectful towards younger colleagues, and refuse to even test or try out new ideas.
So yes! I believe that the current senior generation in the workforce, was kinda spoiled during their lifetime. Which reflects in an increased amount of ego, getting in the way towards progress!
😱YOU BROUGHT THE BACWARDS BIKE!😁😁😁That was literally the first video I saw from your channel about 6 years ago!
I think it was that video that sparked my interest in engineering. Back in JH, my teacher played your video of the backwards bike at the end of the year and I just loved it. I didn't know until recently where the video was, and I hadn't thought much about it until I watched this video that randomly popped up on my youtube feed. Thank you so much for making this channel!
Also the way you did your presentation (in this video) was executed very well, I love how you were able to present the information in such a way that it's extremely difficult to disagree. Additionally, I love how you didn't shy away and keep quiet about the issues that needed addressing, unfortunately not enough people speak out about things, thank you so much for being honest and plain about pointing out the problems despite what the consequences could have been
(100% subscribing)
Thank you!
This is an absolutely fantastic talk, which not only deals with the problems within engineering and businesses today but with society itself. Fantastic work and a way to see the problems with each other that we encounter when we are too afraid to discuss a problem or topic in todays society. Great work Destin.
My Ex's dad worked on a part that failed during the Challenger launch. Him and other engineers actually had voiced concerns, but weren't listened to for some reason.
I think being able to effectively communicate can't be undervalued.
Being ALLOWED to communicate is even more important.
@@harrybarrow6222not just allowed, but hosting an environment in which people can feel comfortable enough to voice their concerns. And not just doing that by saying "please feel comfortable to say whatever blah blah blah"
Amazing how 7 Survivors of the Challenger Shuttle Psy-OP didn't bother to even change their Names.
Look into it. Only 1 of them is unaccounted for.
Feynman's second book ('What do you care what other people think') talks about this, and his comments during the investigation of the Challenger disaster.
Concerns had been voiced but were not listened to, and you're pinning this on the ones raising the issue rather than the ones ignoring it?
You can invite engineers to a conference, but it takes the right person to make them listen. Well done Destin!
Listen AND talk, I think the major takeaway here is that a lot of the people who have gotten into their various positions have learned when not to talk, but sometimes they don't talk when they really should.
I think they did listen. The talk was a month ago, the US government accountability office announced a few days ago that Artemis 3 is likely to be delayed a few years mainly because of the exact issues he mentioned, the HLS refueling issue. His talk may already have worked!
Thank you for sticking to it and sharing your knowledge and let us follow your curiosity in science , Love from Sweden
This is maybe your best CZcams video. It certainly is top on my list. The intermingling of your message with your personal life hit the spot. Not only did I get the message, but I feel like I really know you now. And I’ve watched a lot of your videos.
This man right here. This is who I want to be when I grow up. A man full of knowledge, yet humble enough to understand when to listen and when to speak. Not speaking like a fool, but speaking with a life time of experiences, and an authority that has been earned.
Destin, you are a inspiration to a generation, and I pray that as I step towards my adult life soon, that I can one day meet you with my head held high. Not meeting you as a fan, or random onlooker to the fishbowl of youtube, but someone who has created substance with their life.
Praying for you and your family, I hope you have a wonderful Christmas season.
You and we all will get there
Keep it up there man
I also want to meet him
Less the praying part, (just my view), I totally agree. Shoot for the stars, and keep picking role models like this. I think you’re on the right track. 👍
Dude, I am just partially through watching this and I am moved to write this. I am an engineer (long retired) and have recently run for our Town Council. I ran on a simple concept I called "Dee's C's". The are 1) Communication, 2) Collaboration, and 3) Commitment. I think you can see where this is going. Most of my career was based on solving difficult problems that seemed too difficult to solve. So I adopted these concepts into my problem solving process. (There is a 4th "C" for Community. That said, I think you have quite literally hit the nail on the head. I'd love to discuss this with you at some length, but this is not that venue. I hope I might get a chance to expand these concepts.
There are a lot of engineers who fail at this stuff. I know a lot of people who are drawn to engineering can be awkward, maybe loners... as an old engineer myself I see a lot of them struggle when it's time to join the workplace. The days of the lone engineer solving complex problems are long gone, you have to learn to work with people--and I really feel like your first C--communication--is the most important and I see a lot of people stumble there.
I go out of my way to make junior engineers feel welcome and to let them know that I want to hear what they think. I come from (and work on) submarines, and if *anyone* comes to you with concerns, YOU LISTEN.
By quite literally I take it you mean effectively made a point that the metaphor of hitting a nail strongly applies. Lol. To me it's sad the informal usage you used has made it into the popular American lexicon. Anyway, I wish you success in politics!
@@sisyphuscranerigging7792 so I used to be sorta nitpicky about this usage of the word too, but I have my BA in linguistics from the UW, and I took a class in historical linguistics where we learned about language shift and there is a really common phenomenon that happens with words that mean "literally" where they end up becoming synonymous with "to an extreme degree". For instance, the word "very" comes from the latin "veritas" meaning truth. The same thing happened with the word "really". There are a ton more examples in other languages as well. But when I view this usage of the word "literally" in this light, it no longer bugs me. It just becomes an interesting feature of language change in motion.
very similar to my concept I call "Dee's N's"
Using Starship as the lander is absurd. At least 16 launches, refueling in orbit without pumps, and a tall lander with a high center of gravity and a small footprint that will land on an unprepared site. Just idiotic.
I have also cast my aspersions on the tall conical shape of the HLS in comparison to the ostensibly squat spread of the Lunar Module. My assumption is that the COG is a lot lower than one would assume.
Thanks for this Destin. I'm sharing this with my students from now on when it comes to understanding context and communication in large, complex engineering projects.
I've been saying this for a decade as a software engineer:
- Make it simple, then bulletproof it with redundancy and tests.
- Don't let guesstimates prevent you from building the right thing.
It's nice to hear the same is true for other engineering fields as well.
We're all in the same boat.
Incredible talk, Destin. Thank you!
It's true for ALL systems, mechanical, electrical, and even work guidelines. I always push back against complicated systems designed under the premise of "well if everyone does what they are supposed to do then it will be fine" that is such a hard NO always design work policies with the lowest amount effort required to do the right thing and assume people with screwup every step along the way but still end up where they were supposed to but had they done everything right the process would have taken a literal minute instead of 30.
BTW I originally had work policies instead of work guidelines but when I re-read it, I read it as work politics, although still accurate wasn't what I intended so I reworded it.
It's called MVP
46:35 I have the same exact reaction whenever Elon or SpaceX say they're going to catch the skyscraper sized booster out of the air with oversized tongs 😂
I just watched this and i think that was a brilliant talk. Too often we get caught up in politics especially in the Government sector and keep quiet and refuse to call out idiocy that burn time, resources and dont add to overall efficiency or safety. Sometimes those things are just there to CYA but end up causing more problems. After watching this I've decided to make it my mission to ask those hard questions and question those ineffective, inefficient processes that i see everyday. Thanks for this!
I have no beef in this, but I watched all 1:05:19 and I learned what an amazing storyteller you are and it gave me joy in my day to see how excited you were you to deliver truth to this room. I’m proud of you, and grateful you shared.
Thank you for the kind words
This!!!
@smartereveryday most people with a brain knows that basic science tell us that human space travel is impossible and only driven by the fantasy of it.
It's easy to show using basic proven science.
That was without a doubt, one of the best lectures I have ever watched. Your father can only be beyond proud of you.
If every person in that room didn't learn something from your lecture, they are NOT Smarter Every Day.
You might not have made friends but you've saved lives
@52:87, the question put to the engineer was " Better now " not " Smarter now". these are very different.
fantastic video , it will cause a huge amount of change and rightly delay the mission by 2 years.
My Dad worked on the Saturn V and finished his career working on ISS. He would totally agree with your message. He spoke up and had to find new assignments because he spoke his mind. He was frustrated with the Shuttle Program knowing what was accomplished with Apollo/Saturn V. Will be interesting to see what happens.
I grew up in Huntsville!
Except it was all a cover program for money laundering.
i generally think politics have to much say in securitythings (guessing it was) in stuff like for example space programs. Politics should have no wote in anything involving stuff like this. Just "sc. nice to have/do" nothing else.
Your dad is a liar
@@jvsyoutube3298 Destin is referring to the fact egos and personal agendas get in the way of group decision making in organizations. It happens in businesses as well as projects like the Apollo Program and the Artemis Lunar mission. This is not referring to Democrats vs Republicans.
The entire current management structure is tied to priority adherence to the instructions of higher authorities. And the career interests of the nimble bosses are directly tied to playing spectacularly for the public and indulging their impulsive desires. People who think about business are the losers, people who play in line with the expectations of the public and their bosses are the winners.
My father was the chief ground systems engineer for the Titan program. As a kid I overheard soooo many midnight meetings held between some of the great minds of that time as they were struggling mightily to solve the issues confronting the quite literally "do or die", height of the Cold War ICBM development program in the struggle against the U.S.S.R. As you spoke, memories began flooding back of those times, the global significance of which only became clear to me some decades later.
I congratulate you on making what I consider a meaningful contribution to the future of the Artemis mission. My father used to tell me that when engineers can be convinced that the solution to a given problem not only already exists, but that it has ALWAYS existed, and that they accordingly only have to discover it; their chances of not only finding the solution, but also finding it in a timely manner, are algebraically increased. Subscribed and Thumb's Up.
Beautifully put, thank you for sharing ❤
I'm sure this is a comment that will be lost in a sea of comments, but you indicated that you'd like to hear what we say so here goes. There should be someone to say something like this at every major project kick-off. I recently retired after a 35-year career with a major defense contractor, and I second you thoughts. The largest, most costly, and easiest to fix problem that I saw was over-engineering. I found out early in my career that if you are fighting to make a design work, it's probably the wrong one. Instead of forcing it to work, back off and rethink the design before you commit too much to it. The right design is almost always elegantly simple, easy to extend, and easy to fix. One of the problems I saw was a tendency to be on the bleeding-edge of technology. Engineers anxious to use the latest shiny toy without asking if it was the right thing to do. Enjoying you channel!
15+ launches for one lander? Ain't gonna happen!
You more eloquently say what I try to instill in my development team. Focus on the end result and not just the cool stuff that comes along just because it's fun. I'm looking forward to reading SP 287.