Holden Colorado Shudder! What went Wrong?
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- čas přidán 13. 02. 2024
- Rod and Trevor go hunting for a TCC Lockup shudder in a Holden Colorado RG with a 6L50 6 speed transmission. Another in the series of What went wrong?
To check out our website goto:
automatictransmission.com.au/ - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Ive been waiting a while for someone to bring forward something about the cause in detail, its good to finally see what is going on in there. Cheers guys
I just love watching your work on automatic transmissions. First, find the issue and upgrade the new parts. A real professional team at work.
Thanks for the kind words!
Watching from the states, amazing video and explanation on the 6L50! Great for consumers to be guided through these complexities.
Glad it was helpful!
And people always seem so surprised when they get the bill for not servicing their transmissions.........There's a lot going on in there. Top work gentlemen.
Holden has the first auto service scheduled at 140,000km, mine started shuddering at 84,000km. Mostly highway use for work, no offroad use and lucky to have towed a small tinny a hand full of times. Many people in the same boat as me if you start looking on colorado pages
@@jasongrant6939the service interval for the autos has been “revised” by Holden to the 72,000km or 75,000km interval depending on what schedule your car is on
Mine started at 43k and I had the transmission fluid flushed but the gearbox was out before it hit 60k. Jason is right about the servicing interval. "Fill for life transmission" was the service department managers comment. No warranty either.
That's the most attention I have ever payed to any video. I have one of the formerly mentioned vehicles that's had 2 torque converters and is causing chaos again. Rocket Rod, we'll certainly be in touch
TCC shudder is becoming common on everything, because the fluid is thinner, and more slippery than before, and the friction modifier blend oxidizes out faster, because these units are all clutch to clutch shifted and the regulation valves are moving continuously in their respective bores.
I have a 2014 Colorado LTZ 4wd. Lots of very heavy towing since brand new. No problems 180K trans serviced by dealer 3 times so far. After 2014 a different transmission was fitted to Colorados and this clearly has been less reliable for many. Great that you are able to fix the problem properly. These are excellent reliable vehicles that are very capable. Money on the transmission is very well spent especially when you look at the cost of a new vehicle these days.
Transmissions were ok on the early models. Wasn’t until the updated model that they had the common shudder problem.
I think they started having that issue after 2017 woth the facelift and updated torque converter
My 2015 model has trans issues now after 250,000kms. It’s been serviced 4 times now. It’s t pitty wholesale automatics it’s over 1800km away. I wouldn’t trust the local auto shop to fix it properly 🤦♂️
I guess my Colorado will be coming for a visit, great video guys I’ll definitely be in touch
Great informative video boys ,well explained. The reason why wholesale Automatic Transmissions has a great reputation in the industry.
Glued to the screen and autos always fascinate me with their complexity.
Your cooler and Nonad valve body upgrade was the best money I spent on the car .
Good to see how much autos have changed over the years, not as easy to work on as the old trispastic. Keep it up rocket.
Thanks for the video...great work guys
Thanks for watching!
Wish you guys were here in the U.S I'd be on the way to see guys. You obviously know what you are talking about. I have a 17 Colorado with a 2.8 liter diesel in it. Love the truck minus the transmission. I've had the same issues when towing with it. The shudder and at one point a millisecond lock up in tow haul mode going up hill. As soon as the transmission gets warm from towing it all starts. Shifts really smooth if your not towing and just normal driving but when you start working the transmission it all comes back. Took it to the dealer and had the thing flushed out and a TCM update but it all came back. Initially it started just driving it around while not towing anything. Thought it was all cured until I started towing with it after that. Like I said it all came back and worse. Anyway great video. Wish I knew of someone here in the states I could take it to with your knowledge.
Awesome video, especially liked the vacuum test, thanks
Glad you liked it!
That was so informative Rocket, you guys really do know your stuff very educational to someone like myself, thank you so very much for that, looking forward to the next one,
See a sneaky Snatch hoodie walk in too, miss you from those old trips too
Glad you enjoyed it
Great video boys, very informative. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, will do!
Damn good video lads. It’s good to learn one thing everyday
That's interesting. I was a mechanic working for Holden. They were stating it was a torque convertor fault. We where only instructed to fit new ones.
I wonder if they new the route cause and didn't acknowledge due to costs???
Very well explained guys.
Glad you liked it!
The over pressure from the worn valve will normally blow out the discs on the pressure switches to the TECHM too.
Excelent video on what can go wrong and what needs to be fixed.
Remember. We can’t multitask ON PURPOSE 😅. Don’t let our women ever find out that we actually can. Great video, boys 😊
It would be great to know what readout you were looking at on the road test. Can I see this on an OBD 2 reader? Great video and info.
Thanks guys how funny my MY18 Colorado is bringing looked at tomorrow by someone i won't say but on the Northern Beachers Sydney haha for the same problem only done 77 thousand great video
Gday, how did I miss this upload, very interesting really, I’ve never seen inside a torque converter before and there’s more in there then I thought, great informative video mate, cheers
Glad you enjoyed it
Great video lads, I'd hate to know the cost but to upgrade
What year Transmission? I have a 2017-MY18 with 133000 km wit no shudder at all yet. I bought a cooler from you a year ago and asked at the time about transmission upgrades but there weren’t any. Cheers for the ongoing R & D for us Collie owners. I’ll be calling tomorrow to get pricing on the upgrade. Cheers Gaz
Love your work, finally a proper explanation to this problem, i have a 2018 colorado, 200k km with a cooler on it, its not bad but definitely doesnt behave properly considering i mainly use it to tow, what kind of money am i looking at if i send you the trans and converter out of it to get all the fixes done and your upgraded converter?
automatictransmission.com.au/shop/extreme-plus-rebuild-of-holden-rg-2-8l-diesel-colorado-colorado-7-and-trailblazer-6-speed-auto-includes-torque-converter/
Nice work.
Thank you! Cheers!
I’ve had your twin oil cooler setup for over 80k and not 1 drama. On my second oil change and tow a 3 ton van around. Nothing over 85 ever. Cheers
Love these videos. It's so good to get to see the innards!
My Triton has a factory ATF cooler, but I'm always very conscious of ATF temps and monitor them when driving via obd2.
What is the general opinion on what constitutes "too high"? Mine measures at two locations, the carter and the oil pipe. I've only seen it reach 104c before, max. That was 2nd gear up a really steep hill with the camper trailer on the back. Generally it's 80-90c.
Cheers for the content. Keep it up!
120c is to hot. 104 is ok.
Yes but the OEM cooler not a very big. I still run a secondary transmission cooler downstream. I tow a full van though. Such a difference.
Dmax and Colorado same vehicle?
Good info., looking to purchase a Colorado so even better info.
Glad it was helpful!
Holden dealers are carrying out a triple flush before replacing any parts. Most of the time that seems to work.
I have the 2015 Rg and this wasn’t an issue. What changed in the the facelift models too start having this shudder?
Interesting: I have a relative with one in Trinidad and the company stated it was a torque converter issue. Changed and over time, it did the same. He had it to a specialist who changes dome valve body components, among other things I can't recall.
But what I was wondering is, many of the US users in forums stated the issue came down to the dexron6 ATF the company uses and by using a specific one (Mobil 1 HLVP) it stopped the shudder. I can't explain it.
The dealer are trying the oil change here as well, unfortunately they are having hit and miss success depending on the condition of the lock-up please in the torque convertor and the valve set.
Good job as always Rocket! Just curious.. if the valve body is worn then wouldn’t the opposing surfaces inside the housing also be worn? It just seemed to me that only half the problem is being solved by changing all the valves.. but I’m not a gearbox specialist just a mechanically minded guy..
That is very true in many circumstances and we would ream the bore and oversize the valve to suit, this is very common with the Ford Ranger 6 speed autos and a few odd valves across other makes and models. However the valve bore in the Colorado seems to remain largely unaffected and the vacuum test was perfect with the new valve.
Hey Rod.. I work FIFO I can leave my 2018 Colorado Auto sit for 3 weeks some times.. I idle the car for a good 5 minutes before I drive off for the first time.. but when I put it in Drive and start to roll forward it can take a good second to build up drive and finally start moving.. it's fine after a week.. maybe 2. very much more prevalent after 3.... 140k on the clock has always seem to happen.. only ever noticed this in the Colorado
Can be the same pressure reg valve that we mentioned in this episode bleeding oil back from the torque convertor into the pan. Letting the car run for a few second recharges the torque convertor and you are good to go. Unfortunately no quick fix but no harm being done either until the shudder starts then you will to rebuild and upgrade.
Hey Rocket, nice in depth video on what the actual problem is as Holden are just doing these so called triple flushes to cover the issue until your out of warranty and they kick you out afterwards.
I have a question mine has 111,000km but never experienced the shudder but flairing would this be the issue for that as well?
Very difficult to tell without driving the car but we would need for details on exactly when it happens, you can email this information to rodney@askorto.com.au and I will investigate for you.
I have the vehicle you described and the shudder issue, have had it back to the dealer/stealer and each time no fault found and for me is getting worse. It's still in warranty till the end of the year but they choose to do nothing, the truck itself is great for what I do just need to sort the shudder out😢.
Great job fella's what sort of $ to have this sorted, might be worth the road trip
I have exactly the same issue
Look up class action against GM. As a ex warranty clerk for GMH , you have a legitimate claim.
Hi Rod, something I would like to understand is why were are not seeing the same consistent issue across all gearboxes. I definitely acknowledge there is a fundamental issue with the valves as I am part of a number of groups where people are having issues anywhere from 20k up to 100k and beyond. I have a 2017 trailblazer, so just after the pre-facelift when the issue started to rear its head. I wouldnt say its had an easy life. I have towed caravans on the very limit, have done what I would consider somewhat serious 4wding enough to push the car to its limits with lockers as well as a lot of beach driving. I have had the TB tuned, bigger tyres and higher lift basically everything you would expect to considerably put more stress on the transmission. The car has 182k on it and have had a few issues but never a transmission shudder, which I am very surprised. I have done 2 transmission services on it and installed one of your coolers at around 90k. Given the history of the car I thought it would have been a prime candidate for the shudder. I have considered it is maybe shear luck, but I am stumped as to why it hasnt developed the shudder, other than possible inconsistent QA/QC of the valve hardness given the wear you are seeing in other gearboxes. Do you have any thoughts on why this issue is seen in basically soccer mum cars with low kms versus high km hard driven cars?
This a great question and I believe, and this is only my personal opinion but changing the oil from what was originally used and adding a cooler would make a difference. We know that Holden is changing the oil to be different from what was originally used but I don't know in what way. The early models didn't seem to have the problem and for the most part the torque convertor is the victim and not the cause. It can be the valve as seen and we will certainly see a lot more of these as the years go on. It's also pressure management and we know that the only sure way is to do a valve upgrade set, billet torque convertor and we HIGHLY recommend the oil cooler and aftermarket full synthetic oil. There are many that have no problem, in fact most don't, you mostly only hear about those who are. We have not done a case study to what the common factors are to those who do and those who don't, but we all know that we will see more as the years go on.
Low pressure on the clutches? Just a guess before watching the vid.
Great video as per usual. Ive just had this happen to my colorado and holdens current warranty fix is to tripple flush the fluid. Are you able to explain how this could possibly fix a mechanical problem like any of the ones you mentioned in the video?
It certainly can't if the damage is already done and I have no way of knowing if they are adding any sort of additive to the oil to reduce shudder. I can't comment on exactly what they are doing or even what the hell a triple flush is. We do full flush transmission services but as a transmission specialist a triple flush doesn't sound like a correct terminology for what they might be trying to achieve.
To me changing the oil three times(and running it in between) means they really want to get all the oil out of all the nooks and crannys. But that just tells us they think the problem is the oil. The oil can only be contaminated by worn or failed parts or cooked from overheating in my mind. It's definitely made the shudder disappear for now. But just feels like a temporary solution to a more serious problem.
Holden say its the torque converter which fails though Holden attempt to flush transmission hoping all clutch particles from burnt TC clutch hasn’t caused fowling down steam. However, flushing waste time since problem originated from TCC valve. Holden known for replacing both TC and transmission. Don’t be fooled by flushing as cure, but more about avoiding TC and trans replacement under warranty.
Rod, do you know if Holden/GM has updated these valves on more recent 6L50 transmissions? I had the shudder as well on my 2019 ZR2 diesel colorado and GM is replacing the whole transmission with a new unit
No, the valves that we use in our heavy duty Colorado builds are custom made to suit. They are not genuine.
would you guys sell these in a kit? live in qld sadly
We're have you guys been.
Anyway when are we going to see more of the rebuild of you land cruiser and We're still waiting to see some 4x4 trips
Oh you will see more soon enough! We are getting a few development programs sorted out so I have some free time to start filming again.
I just had the torque convertor replaced for the shudder....good to know for next time
get the valve body looked at, there is a valve that should be replaced when the TC is done. Holden do not give two plucks and just do the TC. Valve replacement changed my ute.
Thanks for the information. I’ve got a 2.5 diesel Chevy Colorado doing exactly that. I am in Thailand. Can I buy the valves from you??
Yes, but you going to need to remove the transmission and upgrade both pump and valve body valves. You will also need to rebuild your torque convertor.
Awesome video thanks do you have a shop near Newcastle nsw
Email me on rodney@askorto.com.au and let me know if you have any issue and history of the problem.
I had my whole auto replaced because the clutch that does 3rd, 5th and reverse had shat itself, does that sound right guys.
Without seeing the transmission our self it's a little hard to diagnose what exactly went wrong with your transmission. Your issue is not that common but can be caused by more than one component. I would assume that when they removed the pan of the auto that is was found to have excessive ware.
Amazing vid. I am at 75k and have had the shudder for about 5k klm. What would the price be for one of these rebuild? I am in Lilydale.
It's hard enough trying to get warranty to sort it. Being an Ldv t60 (but I'm 99% sure it's the same auto as the Colorado)
So you have the same problem in the 6 speed LDV? And yes it is the same Colorado engine and auto so it does make sense. Being in Lilydale I would bring it in and Ask for Trevor to take it for a road test but he is away till next week.
So the LDV runs a 2.8 DuraMax?
My 2020 Colorado has that same shudder sometimes and I definitely feel the torque converter slippage between the lower gears as you push on off the mark, I usually back the accelerator off a bit to not put too much pressure on it so it can shift up better, but yes, it is a P.O.S of a transmission.
Your upgrade sounds expensive though, but what choice do we have when the manufacturer dumps a bad design on us. I don't think my car has any more warranty either.
Even if it did, what would they do anyway ?? Replace the torque converter or that valve for a short term fix until the car well and truly runs out of warranty, then they can tell you to go get stuffed after. What a disgrace. No wonder Holden went out of business.
When the valve in the front pump fails can this be picked up when they look at pressures with the diagnostic tool?
It is possible but as the transmission normally needs to come out in every case so we just upgrade the valve set and torque convertor regardless.
@@WholesaleAutomatics I would have thought the faulty valve would be indicated by a reduced or increased pressure, I thought the valve body distributes the fluid to the correct location to engage the correct clutch packs etc. If the problem is reduced pressure is there a pressure switch within the TCM that would provide this information to the diagnostic reader.
Unfortunately the TCM doesn't register pressure, only slip if it is in excess. The trouble is that the lock-up is supposed to slip from time to time, a lot in fact so the TCU has a tough time picking right from wrong. If the valve is ever the cause the TCU runs out of pressure rise and even if maxed out, still not enough to apply fully.
great job guys,have that trouble now on my 2019 Z71 they are going to do a band aid fix i think , have been chasing the cause for while now so informative , need help ?
Just remember that it's not always the valve but the valve set and replacement torque convertor fixes the issues regardless.
@@WholesaleAutomaticsjust curious mate, how much does it cost to does it cost for this job to take place? @ valve set replacement + new torque convertor. I don’t own one of these, but I’m thinking of buying one in the near future, and this seems like a common issue that I should be aware of lol
Depend om if you are doing the job yourself, removing transmission etc, email me at rodney@askorto.com.au and I will ask all the questions to get you a price.
When does the shudder occur? Highway speeds? Uphill? Underload?
Normally at cruising speed when lock-up engages and disengages. Light loads can add to this.
What price am I looking at to get this upgrade?
Your shop is about to get swamped with calls from Colorado owners, probably questions from legal companies too due to possible court action 👍
automatictransmission.com.au/shop/extreme-plus-rebuild-of-holden-rg-2-8l-diesel-colorado-colorado-7-and-trailblazer-6-speed-auto-includes-torque-converter/
I had 07 ve sv6 about 230.000km and shudder auto I was quoted $5000 to rebuild didn't have the money didn't want but sold it to the wreckers
Yep have a 2010 sv6 240k just started doing funny things never serviced and was quoted 7k for rebuild.... not slipping and random hesitation to go in 1st when stopped, noticing a vibration going uphill now also
Why doesn't this issue present itself in the 6L50 VE commodore? Is there a difference?
Not the exact same as while there is a few differences the same valve set also suits the VE Commodore.
Just wondering if the guy in glasses has been to the doctors about his shoulder twitches?
Yes he has and it's in his head lol. I'm the one in the glasses and I wish I could make it stop but nope!
Can you please advise.. The new valve has longer landings has the corresponding bore where the new style valve goes into have the longer landings ?
In almost every ase it is always the valve that just shows the wear. The landing seems to stand up a hell of a lot better than the valve does.
Appreciate & Thanks for your reply.
Can you just replace the faulty valves with the new improved ones??, is this a gearbox out to do this?
Rob
Yes you can, but if you already have the shudder then change the torque convertor at the same time as the transmission has to come out to install the new valve set.
Thanks again for your advice. You are champions
Rob
Do you guys know what changed between models that caused the issues?
The torque convertor certainly changed but our new valve set suits both. The older convertor is in fact a little smaller as is the bell housing. Strange seeing that you would think the later convertor would be more capable and problemy is from a fuel efficiency point of view. The older valves do not seem to have the same problems also.
Can u guys do a vid on the Y62 box please
Yes we will as soon as we get a chance.
Do you do change over transmissions ?
In many cases yes.
Interesting that another automatic specialist in SEQLD believes the issue is the valve body and provide an upgrade kit.
The valve body only has a few valves, all the major valves are in the pump assembly. You watched the video and saw what we found.
Whats the cost for the full kit? , i have a 2016 Colorado
automatictransmission.com.au/shop/extreme-plus-rebuild-of-holden-rg-2-8l-diesel-colorado-colorado-7-and-trailblazer-6-speed-auto-includes-torque-converter/
What would a reconditioned box cost , with the mods
Here is the direct web link to the upgraded transmission:
automatictransmission.com.au/select-your-vehicle/holden/colorado/rg-2-8l-turbo-diesel-with-6-speed-auto/?make=Holden&model=Colorado&series=RG%20-%202.8L%20Turbo%20Diesel%20with%206%20Speed%20Auto
Where can i buy the upgraded valves from ?
Here is the direct link:
automatictransmission.com.au/shop/holden-colorado-2-8l-6-speed-6l50-reprogramming-valve-set/
Hi Orto, what would i expect to pay for such a job?
Depends of if we are doing the remove and refit of the transmission including transmission upgrade or if you are just sending the auto for upgrade or you are just after the parts. Email me on rodney@askorto.com.au and I will get you sorted Michael.
Is this the same box as the Craptiva ? His auto refused to move at 175k km i said go back to Holden
No, it is a completely different transmission. The Colorado is rear wheel drive in transmission orientation but has transfer case so 4x4 while the Captiva is front wheel drive.
@@WholesaleAutomatics 👍
How many dont have a problem?
Who knows exactly, you won't know until you are in the transmission looking at the possibilities. Certainly some of the worst case shudders seem to have but that can also be because the torque convertor is showing signs of being damaged. We have seen them with no valve damage and have also seen them shudder with replacement torque convertors where no valve upgrade was done. I don't know of a single case of shuddering once you have done both a valve upgrade set and billet torque convertor. Remember the pressures are also increased as part of the valve set to make sure we are covering the least explained cases.
Whats the cost of these upgrades?
You have three options: 1st We do the whole job including removing the transmission doing all the upgrades and reinstalling the transmission, 2nd You send us your transmission, we do the upgrades and return to you (this is the most popular) and 3rd we send the upgrade parts and you do the job yourself if you are handy with the tools, this is really only an option for someone that is either a mechanic or is confident working on their own cars. Email me at rodney@askorto.com.au for more info.
so can someone send this to all dealers that sold colorado,s, so owners have a better chance for warranty work, also ive asked about fitting one of your coolers & my dealer believes I dont need one, who do I believe
I sell oil coolers so from your point of view I'm jut a salesman. That being said if you tow or have kitted out the car with extra weight then yes it's a must have but if not the oil cooler will always make your auto last longer although problem won't help with the shudder.
Dealer just wants to sell more parts to you and the cooler prevents them from doing that by extending the life of the fluid and transmission, especially if you push your car hard towing or off roading a lot. If anything, it will increase the reliability of your car. I own a 2.8 Colorado zr2 in the States, and we have the same shudder issues with our 6 speeds as well. If we continue to use factory fluids, we cut the recommended change intervals in half, or we swap to something like Amsoil's Signature Series fluids, add a cooler, and we don't have any more problems. Tripple billet converters are also commonly installed as well. I personally have a cooler and highly recommend it. Temps are much cooler and never reach 200F (93C) any more. Our trucks are setup where 270F (132C) is the max allowed temps, damage is occurring well before that. I'm a heavy equipment operator, so do what you will with this info
the service interval for the autos has been “revised” by Holden to the 72,000km or 75,000km interval depending on what schedule your car is on
Not that that will fix the problem 🤷♂️
Single sided plates are a failure
So complicated.
Looks like GM doesn’t make anything better over your way then here in America. I’ll stay with Toyota.
From a mechanic
What a stupid idea isnt heat a computer killer
Makes as much sense as putting an electric fuel pump in the petrol tank
Engineers. Thinking that they ar clever
complete witchcraft I tell ya! ;)