New MIRI Commissioning Images from Webb - with Andras Gaspar
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 17. 05. 2024
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00:00 MIRI's Commissioning Images
01:51 Andras Gaspar and Team MIRI
02:34 What is commissioning like with MIRI?
03:19 What were the first images MIRI took?
04:22 What is dithering?
06:05 Squarespace Sponsor Message
07:17 Cat's Eye Nebula
09:41 MIRI's Full Field of View
10:33 NGC 6558 Seyfert Galaxy
11:53 Looking Near the Galactic Center
13:37 Thank you, Patrons!
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Follow Andras Gaspar on Twitter: / andrasgaspar
Download Team MIRI's Commissioning Images: github.com/merope82/JWIms
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Fantastic! Thank you for these "behind the images" insights. Very interesting.
Sure thing!
CHRISTIAN!!! Thanks for another great video!!! As a novice, I always find it interesting when all of the images are overlaid. So far JWST is working great!! I love these images!!!
Thanks man, always a joy to hear from you!
That was a great talk to listen to! Thank you for bringing it to us. Seems like every image has so much information and a purpose and a story behind it.
I work with laser scanning microscopes and I have been waiting for this level of detail on this instrumentation.
I hope LUVOIR-A gets built!
amen!
Luvoir is entirely cancelled. There is a new study being performed to plan a new telescope system which will seek to find and image exoplanets to find life
@@smallpeople172 Source?
Fantastic, Thank you Christian. As I have commented before, your coverage of JWST have been stellar. And thanks to Andres for his clear break down of how Miri works. Iâll check out your twitter.
Amazing work with the group! Thanks for bringing such professional firsthand experience to us.
Bring us all the WEBB images you can Prof. Ready. You have become the YT go-to channel for everything WEBB.
Saw your interview with Joe Scott, on my Nebula account. Learned allot about you. The two you seemed to be having a good time.
None the Less, you should consider joining the Nebula team. All the cool kids are joining.
Looking forward to more of you stuff. Thanks for the time you put into this.
Thanks! I don't know very much about Nebula but I'll look into it.
This is really incredible. I'm shocked that latent images on MIRI last for as long as 30 minutes if they're not annealed. It's good that it has the Lyot coronagraph! Even with dithering, very bright objects would surely produce artifacts that might be very hard to remove from observations.
I suppose MIRI is most exciting in its ability to produce detailed images of dark and very distant objects, so any inadequacies in observing very bright objects is forgivable :D
Having found these objects with the MIRI imager, the MIRI integral-field spectrometer can then be used to analyse target objects and learn their secrets.
Another great content not avilable anywhere else. Thank you for so much details you publish about JWST.
Very good. I love it when a real scientist becomes a real person. You can just tell how much he loves his job. Thank you !!!!
It was great seeing you on Joe's channel!!!
Fascinating and so good of you to help us all to get this data and the inside information from Andras , You really help us get the enthousiasm for space exploration. Thanks
Such an incredible insight! What an absolute joy. The annealing process to aid latent imaging is mind blowing. Thank you so much for the content.
Greatly appreciated.
So many thanks in every way possible!
Thanks Christian. Your videos r so refreshing n exciting .
Keep up the good work .
Thanks man :)
Awesome this is ground breaking-what a time to be alive
Great interview! It would be so nice to get more of this type, they are really interesting!
the panchromatic picture panel literally made me gasp aloud.
Today I learned about Seyfert Galaxies!
You're always the best đ
Wonderful job you are doing in outreach for jwst
â€â€â€đ
Fantastic !
amazing interview
This was really nice to see a little insight into backend of the project.
Thank you and Andreas đâš
Awesome stuff - thanks for sharing!
Fantastic video
Great video. Thanks guys.
great job!
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!! I'm number 4!!!!!
1:22 Gatekeeping :) lol
1:37' The central star when enlarged and magnified' looks like it has at least 10 visible spikes of material being cast off!
Luvoir A's proposed launch date is 2039 or later. đ€ I'm not sure if I'll be alive till then đ
But hopefully, it gets built đ
Well, right now I'm just glad we got JWST working :)
@@LaunchPadAstronomy oh no. I'm totally happy about jwst. No doubt. My worry is the livoir's ability to find alien life (not necessarily the intelligent life) and I'll miss it. Other than that, I'm all for jwst. đđ„ł
James Webb! James Webb! James Webb!! đ
Could you please explain how heating the whole sensor helps to erase traces of the previous image?
If I'm not mistaken, the sensor is bolometric. To erase old hot spots (from a bright object), you need to wait until they cool down to the temperature of neighboring pixels. If we warm up the entire sensor, we just add a 'thermal pedestal' for all the pixels, but the warmer parts will still be warmer...
Hi! These are blocked impurity band photon detectors and not radiative heat detectors. How latents are formed are still not 100% understood. Either electron accumulation in the blocking layer or some kind of structural variation causes it. Heating, we know, erases the accumulated electrons. There are experts who know way more about this than I do. IBC detectors have been around for 40 years, but we are still learning about them.
@@andrasgaspar3889 Thank you for your reply. Ah, it is array of special photodiodes. OK, it makes this "thermal erasing" more or less understandable: as the temperature rises, more intense thermal generation begins, and the increased current contributes to erasure.
BTW, in the last century, I worked with a InSb detector (as part of a submillimeter interferometer for plasma diagnostics) for several years. It was quite primitive, just a separate crystal. As far as I remember, at that time it was not even completely clear how detection works in this material. đ
9.482 on The Acme MK VI Cool-O-Meter.
Its like when a blind man takes your hand and says 'can't you see?', only instead of a blind man we have Christian!
ty for the video you are the best on this webb, can you make a video about the bigger meteor impact that happened last week, I know you made one like a month ago, but this other impact apparently made some irreversible damage, I am a little bit worried about our expectancy of webb's life.
Thank you! The ânewâ impact was actually the same one I spoke about in my previous video. The only new information was that the analysis was published. There were some tidbits but it came to largely the same conclusions as their preliminary assessment. Still, might be worth a follow up!
How long does it take for MIRI to cool back down to 7K after they've heated it up to 20K?
Andras wasnât sure, but itâs on the order of about 30 minutes. Theyâre doing this at least once a day when MIRI isnât otherwise in use.
Thanks for this focussed program on MIRI, we get to appreciate how the imagining processes work! đđ»
At 8:14 & after, Andras says that it takes half an hr for the decay to get over. Further he says, to get it back again the MIRI is "unnealed" by heating it up from -7k to -20k and back again to -7. So, obviously this unnealing takes lass than 30 minutes! Am I correct? I have to be, or else they cud just allow natural decay đ. It would be nice to know how quickly the unnealing gets done. Thanks.
7 K to 20 K, not negative.
@@koharaisevo3666 I stand corrected! Brain fade đ€Šđ»ââïž
Like when we see those pictures from webb , the colorful pretty ones , is that how it would really look ?
JWST works in infrared. Our eyes can't see at those frequencies, so we have to translate what JWST sees to visible light. As you can see from the comparisons with Hubble, an object can look very different in IR than in visible light.
For objects far away, the light is redshifted. Depending on the distance, it's sometimes possible to take images that reverse that redshift: we take images at the wavelengths that correspond to red, green and blue. So for distant galaxies we can sometimes reconstruct what it would look like in visible light.
g`day christian great video and guest ... how much data do they lose with the diffraction spikes (the optical artifacts on bright stars made by the style of the main mirror)can they still look for things around those stars or is that data lost (line of sight behind and/or close to those stars) like in the example of the galaxy you showed (ngc 6558).. in scale the distance obscured by the spikes could cover 100`s of light years ??? can they recover that data ?
looking forward to more interviews like this as more data gets released. please keep them coming...
cheers mate
james D
The spikes can be canceled out in post processing because their shape is predictable: it's not a perfect cleaning but it can recover a lot of lost elements, which aren't that much compared to the rest of the picture to begin with.
Glad you liked it! As for diffraction spikes, thereâs not a whole lot you can do except reorient the telescope to move the spikes out of their original location. But if you really need to see something close to a bright source youâre gonna use one of the coronagraphs, anyway.
@@LaunchPadAstronomy yes of course i forgot JWST was fitted with a chronograph ( face palm slap) it was 5 am here at time of viewing well that my excuse and i am sticking to it lol .. its also a personal taste thing for me with the diffraction spikes and why i have never owned a newtonian telescope i guess i think its a ..its not really there i would prefer to not see it thing
the JWST images are incredible and i am looking forward to years of discoveries
cheers mate
đ
When will JWST image Betelgeuse ?
Will you please tell us if you have contact with Nasa officials..
I still don't know how can I send my questions to Nasa Officials.
Some of us are mere Engineers, & not space specialists, so even some of the basic terms you use could use more definition, to help our more complete understanding, & therefore our more complete appreciation of your video. For instance:
What is "flat-field" & why would one want to establish that? I'm a photographer, & that's not a term we use. Is it related to "depth of field" or depth of focus? I'd think that everything would be focused at infinity, so none of that would apply, but then I'm lost as to the correct meaning.
"Filters" can be used in several different ways, & it would be useful to know how they're being used on JWST, & especially with MIRI.
Are they letting JUST those wavelengths through?
Or are they letting everything EXCEPT those wavelengths through?
And how wide is that filter? What wavelength range(s) does it cover?
Probably the former, & then those wavelengths get assigned "color(s)" (wavelengths) in the visible spectrum, but still, it would be nice to clarify these sorts of things.
Thanks!
Sorry! You are right, I should have explained some of the definitions a bit more. It is not easy to cover all ground in a short amount of time.
Flat field is the response of the optical/camera system to an even-lit background. It shows multiple effects, from uneven illumination due to vignetting to even dust speckles on the detectors. During image reduction, we divide by flat-field images. If the field is attenuated by vignetting or partial blocking, this arithmetic brings the illumination back to an even level. Even in high-precision photography, sometimes flat-fielding is performed.
Filters let light through AT the wavelengths they are quoted at. Wide/medium/narrow wavelength-band size is relative to the central wavelength. You can see the MIRI filters plotted here: jwst-docs.stsci.edu/jwst-mid-infrared-instrument/miri-instrumentation/miri-filters-and-dispersers
Scientists write the wish-list.
_Mere engineers_ make it happen (if it can).
Administrators get their name on the result....
Every Living Celestrial body has a magnetic pole.
All those picture so far we see could have been done by processing pictures from Hable Telescope . So far web does not deliver their scientist clames
Whatâs a flat field?
Itâs a measure of each pixelâs sensitivity, as if every pixel were receiving the exact same number of photons at the same time.
@@LaunchPadAstronomy Thanks for the content and answer, I really appreciate it.
Sure! Sorry if that wasnât clear from the conversation.
@@LaunchPadAstronomy It was most likely me getting distracted while it was explained. FYI- all my in-laws are Dead Heads of 50+ years.
You married well.
Why are the diffraction spikes in the MIRI image so different from those in NIRcam image... The MIRI image spikes looks a lot like Hubble spikes... Moreover in NIRcam Image the stars are solid but in MIRI image the stars are kind of facy and seems like the star has 18 hexagonal headlights as that of 18 hexagonal mirrors of jwst..đ. Why is this happening? Why the stars are looking so weird and supernatural in MIRI image..? đ”đ”
It's cause by the diffraction inside MIRI sensor. czcams.com/video/E-pNS5mDExQ/video.html
I think he explained that in the video after mirror alignment process.
czcams.com/video/E-pNS5mDExQ/video.html
Yep, see czcams.com/video/E-pNS5mDExQ/video.html and jump to the discussion of the MIRI image. Truth is I talked about it with Andras while making this video as well, but I decided to edit that part out for time (the original conversation was nearly an hour!)
@@LaunchPadAstronomy You have material for another video! đWe also talked about the focusing of the instruments during MIMF, which was cut. Commissioning was long!
So now what? They will release 5 or 6 photos every month or so? I was expecting more than that.
Researchers are always given a one-year proprietary period so they may analyze their data and publish without fear of getting scooped by someone else. If the work is going out for a NASA press release, the policy is to wait until after it's been vetted by peer review (the Early Release Observations are an obvious exception so they could show the public how the telescope is working).
Does this mean we're going to wait a whole year to see more images? Nope! Early Release Science observations are up on the MAST archive (see the link in the description). These are science (e.g., non-calibration) observations that waive the proprietary period so the community can look at the same initial dataset and develop follow-up observing programs. All of those datasets are public in the archive, so have at it!
In the 6 months of commissioning, they took about 140,000 images. That's about the output you can expect (maybe a bit less because the average observation will take longer because the targets are fainter than during commissioning). As Christian says there'll be a delay due to the proprietary period for General Observer images.
@@LaunchPadAstronomy I see, it makes sense. The Hubble works in the same frame? If so, I didn't knew that.
@@h.dejong2531 140.000? Ok, I guess we can check it in a year, more or less *sigh*
Yes, that policy is going to be true of any publicly-funded observatory, on the ground or in space.
MIRI is a very strange cam, i never processed images like this... but the result of my conversion of the NGC3132 MIRI image let see the gases and dust shape and relief and a crazy optical illusion of 2 human faces in the down right border... nothing interesting in the conversion of the NIRCam... my images are in my flickr and my descrips here...
Why is it just commissioning images still?
It's not. Early Release Science observations are being made public on the MAST archive (link in the description) so feel free to have at it!
So a couple of weeks after the 1st four images we now just get old calibration images. What's going on with webb now?
Why no new images for a fortnight?
Has it been struck by a dinosaur extinction meterorite type event? Lol
I hope not
Head on over to the data archive and youâll see all of the data just released!
Link in the description. Have at it!
Don't ever expect the get the most recent images. I believe the astronomer's get exclusive access to the data for a certain amount of time before the images go public. It allows them to get their science done and likely published.
Generally true for most programs which get a one year embargo period. But whatâs being released now are science observations intended to allow the community to analyze and use that to develop follow-up programs.
Has anything been seen or detected that as of this moment doesn't have a clearly defined path from the new image to existing theories??? In short, have anything showed up you can't yet explain as to it's genesis or maturation??
These images were taken to test the cameraâs performance. But now that itâs public, someone can analyze them to look for anything interesting.
I want you guys to find something you can't as of yet explain!?!?!?! It seems to me that this is an incredibly expensive to just see better images of stuff you already largely understand!!!!!!
Like I said, these are calibration images. Understanding the detectorâs performance on the ground is one thing, but knowing how it performs in space allows it to be used for science. Patience, grasshopperâŠ
If you want more about what we're hoping to see that might change our understanding, I'd recommend looking at some of the work of Dr. John Mather, senior project scientist for the JWST. He talks about the capabilities we gain through the use of these deep infrared sensors, specifically we might be able to see galaxies and intergalactic details that are red-shifted outside our observable range on other instruments.
It has just started. As for see stuff they already understand that's a very big over simplification.
@@Zeuskabob1 where did you see his talks?
I unsubscribed due to the mid roll sponsor message.
Sorry about that. Gotta pay the bills though.
You must be new to the internet
@@user-pk9qo1gd6r No, there are many other channels who choose better. Veritasium is excellent example who briefly thanks sponsor during introduction and delivers substantial sponsor message at the end which I frequently watch to reward good placement.
@@LaunchPadAstronomy That my be so but you choose were sponsor message is placed. I value my time and to project that interest it's worthwhile creating consequences.
Were it up to me, Iâd place it at the end and in some agreements I do just that. But other sponsors have their own requirements as to approximate placement (in this case, in the first half of the video.) So I placed the message as far back as permitted. However, I assure you that your choice of whether or not to fast forward is entire yours and will not affect my channel.
JWST is the đ!!!!!!!!!!!!
KNOCK ON đȘ”!!!!!!!!!!
It's not the clarity, it's the amount of data per minute. All the beautiful spectrums in the backgrounds of other targets will keep astronomers busy for decades after Webb stops operating. I hope designs for the next 15 meter infrared variant, 9 meters folded up in a Starship, is already underway.