Bad Push Stick Design Almost Caused a Table Saw Kickback!
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- I tried to make a thin rip push stick for my table saw based on an old design in an out of print magazine. It did not go well. But I think I fixed it and made it much safer to use. Check it out! Amazon and other affiliate links are used in this description and they help support this channel.
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I like that you showed the problems and how you innovated for a better solution. The stair step is a nice tip!
It’s always best to pay attention to that little voice when it says something doesn’t feel right! That’s usually right before things go bad! Great job noticing the issue and adapting to a safer design!
Ohh I am making one of these!! I talked to a buy that has been making cabinets for close to 40 years last week. One of the first things he suggested/shared with me was his missing fingers and one eye. All of it was from the table saw... I am just starting out and it was a sobering experience to see the impact firsthand. The table saw is a great tool but it can cause massive damage before you know it. Thank you for the video and for helping us all become a little bit more safe in our work!!
Glad to see the mistakes, problems, and mishaps in videos. Editing makes everything look perfect and as we know; life is not perfect. I like getting to see how and why something wrong or bad design. It helps me to learn what to look for when doing my own projects. What not to do. Why it's wrong and how to fix it. Stay awesome.
Thanks for that!
I made my own gripper. Basically what just made but it has a 1” space for the blade to go through and it pushes the cut off piece through as well. I love the thing. Made it with scrap pine I had
Handy lil tool. Thanks for always being honest on your builds Mighty Matt.
Thanks Lloyd!
@@731Woodworks I’m new to the channel just subscribed! Love your true honest work! I’m 18 and just getting into woodworking/pyrography and I was wondering if you could make a video on how you make plans. Like do you make a cut then write it down then if you want to change it erase it and change it or do you build it then guess the measurements you made ect.
I remember saving up money for my first big shop purchase, my tablesaw. Included in my budget was a Gripper. Yeah it's expensive but worth every penny in safety and quality of cuts.
This jig reminds me why i like my Grr-Ripper so much. the lack of control at the far (Head) end of the piece of wood i feel risks the kickback.
Very cool budget design. I am with you when it comes to the gripper. Works really great. An additional safety feature that would help your design is maybe using it with the hedgehog featherboard. This would probably eliminate the possibility of kickback.
5:50 friendly reminder for everyone, do not apply inward pressure towards the side of the saw blade from your work piece like this. Apply the inward pressure towards your fence from in front of the saw blade, not beside it. You're pushing your work into the side of the saw blade until its far enough back for the riving knife to engage your cut off
I like how you made the design better and safer! Good ideas!!
i had explored the idea of some of the push block items, and a simple 2x6 piece of wood can serve the same purpose as a high end gripper, you just need be okay with the blade cutting a bit of the 2x6 piece. buts it pretty cheap to replace, and if you just use it as a general push block it works pretty good.
The MICROJIG Grrr-Ripper is a great pusher! (Best one I've found)
Shopsmith has a pushblock that's similar to that but the height is adjustable. It's made out of thinner plastic material. It has made me really nervous on some cuts.
Nicely done - I’m SO glad you show us those ‘little voice’ moments. Often times, we mute that voice and push forward. It’s extremely important that we listen, pause and then take corrective action. What you’ve demonstrated here will help many people (this girl included) to be safer in the shop. Please give Ms Amy big hugs from me! 👋🏽😊🌸
Thank you Mrs. Stephanie! Will do!
I use a similar push block with 3/4" plywood sides. The sides are sacrificial and for thin rips I will cut through the block. One side is notched for 1/4" material and the other side for 3/4" material As long as you have good fit on the fence so it will not shift side to side it will push the rip and waste pieces past the blade safely.
Seems it boils down to the end of the pusher "bringing up the rear" the piece being cut"? Eliminate the stairsteps so you have maximum contact/pressure from above and have a dowel/pin/whatever johnson hanging down a ¼" in the rear. Could make it longer with a spring. Just thinking aloud like I do. Keep up the good work! Aloha
I think I’ll make 3, one for each thickness you made and cut the relief notch at half the length
I think making one for each size would be the safer way to go. Of course you then have a bunch of push blocks.
This is what I was thinking too. Maybe a gap above the top piece to allow positive pressure on the workpiece too?
IMHO, this is where something like my Grr-Ripper does a *much* better job (as you mentioned at the end). Keeps 3 directions of pressure... forward, downward and towards the fence, as well as control the off-cut piece. The block shown here only provides forward and downward control, with no pressure against the fence or control over the off-cut.
Great video. If you had used a featherboard with the first version it would have been fine. 🙂👍
I'd be nervous even with the third version. Ideally you would make a few of these, each one for just one specific thickness of stock. That way you can support the piece over several inches without having to worry about having taller notches robbing you of some of that support.
I prefer my GRR-Ripper with the 1/8" Leg :)
What's funny is he has one shown on his table saw.
If you watch the video at the end I say I still prefer the Gripper to this but for someone on a budget this is a good option.
If it were me, I would notch both sides. If you slide the fence to the left of the blade for any reason, then the push stick will work well on both sides. Thought number two: If you build an extension to the left, much like you see on the yellow $100.00 models of push sticks, then you would be able to have the blade go under the blade which would only be able to up to 3/4" and it would clear the wood. Another word, make the push stick extension at a height of 1" and you will be able to clear the blade which would be set at 7/8". I hope this is a set of good idess. Thank you.
I love your honesty. Would you be able to do a video on how to make a keyhole jig for hanging a wooden sign or shelf to lay flush against the wall?
I'am going to use along with my micro jig, i am not happy using my push stick when ripping 5/8 strips
When making one of these the notches should be near the back so most of the push stick is holding the cut piece down. Shop smith sells one that would be a good example.
Great video, thanks. Perhaps a future build would be guard/dust collection for your sled. You are really grimacing making cuts (1:14).
The gripper is the bomb
The Gripper is my favorite tool in my shop!
CZcams videos must really pay. You've now got a sawstop ts, a cnc, a festool ms, and I couldn't tell what brand the band saw was but I'm positive it wasn't the wen 9" you started with. Good job man. Keep the videos coming
You just need to get rid of the steps and install a heel block to catch the material. This holds the stock down while cutting. :) I have to say, I really enjoy your great content.
Thanks for the tip!
I think the design can have some easy improvements. First only one notch. Second work with your fence. fit a block in the gap on the top of that fence then wrap over. The fence will give you the stability. Next the handle is too big, put a ball type so the center is lower.(think a grip of a plane). A really simple upgrade is some thin rubber feat or weather striping.
Only one notch?? So, you want to make a different jig for every single possible thickness of wood that someone might ever want to cut strips from?? This jig already only does 3 sizes of wood. I mean, lumber goes from ⅛" veneer plywood to 6"×6" or more (which of course means two cuts, one on each of two sides), and one would need jigs up to nearly however tall one's fence is.
Your first "improvement" just means making up to 9 or 10 different jigs rather than just 3 or so, just to go up to, say, 2×4 thickness. That's... entirely unnecessary.
The smaller handle is a preference thing, though a piece of foam at each step up notch would certainly be an improvement. The "block in the gap on the top of that fence then wrap over" doesn't make any sense. The jig itself is wrapping over the fence. So... I can only give you 1½ out of 4 stars. 🤔🤨
@@MaryAnnNytowl Other way around. One notch and only one jig. Think of it more like a push stick. One notch fits all!!. Part of the problem I see with this design is a lack of pressure up front and wanting to rock forward. So one notch to push the wood into the table. Not that it has to touch the table. This jig is already hugging both sides of the fence.
Second part if for this fence in particular. Just fill that gap for more side to side protection.
The third one is absolutely preference but having it in the back and a more of a block instead of a joystick would help prevent rocking while also letting you put more pressure downwards if you need to.
Looking at it now I would double up on the width and get another notched piece for the other side of the blade so you can push a wider material that you are doing strips or squares of w/e.
If you are confused, ask instead of judge while confused.
I like your Miter saw and the station is awesome.
Thank you Jeff!
@@731Woodworks I bought one of those BORA Centipedes and the top to go on it, so I have a workbench now, I got the top that has the holes in it. Before I was using the two trash cans with some old wood on top of it. Next I'm to get some of those things they call bench dogs (I think) to go in the holes, to help me hold wood in place. I'm going to get a miter saw one day, I'm saving up for it.
Hi 731
Been watching your videos for the last few years
And I must say you have really come a long way
I remember when you had the basic of tools and look at you now
I know you are a religious type and I say hey what ever works for you is all good as long as it works
From a cop to a Enterprise of wood working good on you
It's nice to see someone with a idea and a passion succeed
Wishing you much success as you move on forward and know that your enthusiasm and drive to succeed has inspired many people
I'll be honest haven't bought any of your plans as of yet but if ever the need arises that I need something that I see I might need, well I believe I'll come a knocking
Till that time take care care and best of luck on the future
Is there a philosophy of cutting thin strips on the OUTSIDE of the board and not sandwiched between the fence and the blade? I would think you could get MUCH thinner strips that way.
There most definitely is, I thought a safety RULE.
Yes that's actually the proper way to do it. Several companies (Harvey, Woodpeckers, Rockler) make jigs that lock into your miter slot to make this possible.
Check this video from 3x3 custom, they make a simple jig to cut thin strips that works exactly that way: czcams.com/video/TMBM9SLRO8c/video.html
I have the Rockler version. It works. My beef with it is I have no accurate way to set my 'depth' of cut other than to guess. I frequently cut 'spline' for flooring installers, so they can flip directions and or work in both directions from a central starting point. I cut strips anywhere from .090" to .250". I have to guess...and then cut strip after strip until I get a fit that gives me a snug fit without being too tight (think glue squeeze).
The plethora of dirt-cheep digital measuring tools available nowadays makes me wonder why there's not a Rockler-style jig available with a digital gauge. I could slide the gauge to the blade TIP, zero out, slide the gauge back a couple of inches and back out the req'd amount...knowing that my cut will be within a couple thousands of the indication on the jig. No more guesswork and likely only a test cut or two...not the eight or twelve it takes me to fit the groove in the flooring.
You can't make repeatable cuts that way
Try putting the hande in the center and cut the 3/4 notch on the opposite side and flip it to cut 3/4 stock . It would expand the hold down length. I would think would be safer. You could also put the 1/2 notch on the leading end and use it with the fence left of the blade . Just a thought
Just used my gripper today to cut thin strips for making wind spinners.
I would make 3. So more down pressure is on piece and hopefully won't lift up as you make pass by blade. Notch out and leave maybe 3/8 or 1/2" just to grab stock.
As always awesome video. Very great full for a build video!!! Not always selling stuff.
It looks like it would slide up and down nicely on the fence as is, is there a reason to cut all of the steps into it? You could put one small 1/2 step at the very back to help push, then use the full length of the push block to hold the board down. Whether you're cutting something 1/4" or 3/4", the push block can just sit on top of the wood by lifting it up 1/2".
I thought about this, and I believe you used the right term to describe it. It is a push stick, and not something that holds it down like the Gripper. Now, you modified it by cutting it further back, so help with holding the board down. A push stick really doesn’t hold the board down over and passed the blade.
With revisions that appears to be a good idea. I love my gripper, but if I could go back I would have saved money and just built what I needed to fit my needs. Cheers from Utah.
I know you add links to all the tools you use, but I want to step up my faith based work short game. Could you start adding links to those shirts as well? Absolutely love the "Man Up" 1 Peter shirt.
Matt you should make the cutouts little longer. That way you have more material pushing down on the piece that is being cut. Less chance of our lifting and kicking back.
EDIT: I made the comment before watching the whole video.👍🏼
I will continue to cut my thin strips on the outside. No jig needed. But I really like the jig making methods.
Yeah, needs more work. I think it needs a piece to hold the cutoff, and yeah it needs to hold down the small piece better too. like the gripper. I’ve seen a few videos of wooden versions of the gripper on here that I liked. The main thing I liked about them was that if you didn’t adjust it quite right and ran it over the blade, you can make a new piece and be back in business. With the gripper, can you even buy a parts for it or do you have to buy a new one.
I like that you showed the first try didn’t seem right, so you continued to tweak it until you felt safer. Always listen to that little voice.
Get the gripper, it is the safest push block. Oh and you can replace just the part you cut on your Grrripper. ;)
Shopnotes magazine is an offshoot of WOOD magazine. Those who subscribed to WOOD in the '80's and '90's got Shopnotes free. That said...you are spot on reminding all of us to ... not just hear, but listen to that tiny voice that says "This is stupid, Woody!"
I do, however, like this concept. I think I would make several 'left' side parts for each of MY common sizes. That way I could better corral my workpiece by cutting a relief the proscribed depth to about 3/4 the length of the pusher. Much like 3.0...but for a single size, giving a much better downforce. What's the minute it takes to change out one side of your block compared to catching a flying chunk of wood with your belly, face, or gawds forbid...an eye.
Thanks for the lesson or should I say flashback...lol
5:05 - Yep my mistake when I cut my fingers...it flipped up and I thought that the board smacked me, which it did...and my fingers went into the blade. OUCH!
ouch!
On the preview I noticed you had one of those free SawStop brand table saws and instantly knew I wouldn’t need to watch and make sure you were using good cutting technique. A lot of you CZcamsrs don’t have simple proper techniques that people would acquire from a half decent High School Wood Shop educator. If the CZcamsrs didn’t graduate HS they can always take the simplified adult version at their local Junior College. Get yourselves a professional vocational education and you too will start noticing who is educated and who just picked up some tools one day and started pretending for those all mighty social media likes and bucks.
Muito bom 👍🏻 parabéns 😊
Great video
Hey. I have a dumb question. I seem to organize my small shop as efficiently as I can. The one thing I can’t figure out is how to organize my screws/nails so that I can identify them and get to them easily. Any ideas? Maybe a video? Thank, brother.
I like to use small parts organizers from Ridgid or Milwaukee.
Looks to me like your blade is set too high for this cut. Also, I wouldn’t push the side of the wood in toward the blade with that other piece of wood if I were you. It could cause binding and kickback.
I would cringe cutting the strips on the fence side of the blade. That is an accident waiting to happen. You should always use the method used with the gripper. You gave a link to an under $30.00 thin rip jig.
if you moved the handle itll work better. having it so far back isnt letting you put force on the board in the beginning of the cut
Hola! 🖐What a GREAT video. For me the biggest takeaway is TO LISTEN TO THAT LITTLE VOICE a little bit more. It's always easy to say, good nothing "would have happened" when you pause and listen to that voice. You can never go back and get a "redo" after the fact. We all have that little voice but many of us, especially me, ignore it most times but "No Mas" (no more). I'm too old now to spend any kind of time in the ER, I'd rather spend it with my grandkids :D Thanks for the video. Take care and have a good one, Adios! 👊
I dig it! Thanks for the vid!
This design is meant to be used when you are using a feather board or thin rip jig, because the thin piece coming off is on the outside of the saw blade not between the fence and blade. Nothing bad about this design, it's my go to on a jobsite.
It also works better if the sides are thicker than the 1/4" ply you used.
I was thinking why cut the thin part off the fence side of the blade when he could just move the blade out and cut it on the opposite side??? Or use cross cut jig to make that cut? but makes sense that it is for very thin strips.
@@otallono sure, that would work fine if you only needed one or two strips. But if you need 6, 12, or even more, who has the time to stop, adjust the fence again to exactly the amount you need, cut one single strip, stop, adjust the fence again to exactly the amount you need, cut another single strip, stop, adjust.... over and over, ad nauseum? Do you not see the issue with that? Because that is precisely, exactly, and prezactly what this jig is for - cutting _several strips _*_exactly_*_ the thickness_ as the one before and the one before that, quickly and efficiently.
Isn't it interesting how you can just feel that something doesn't feel right? Must be experience. Good video
i LIKE THE GRIPPER. i HAVE 2
Garage workshop question! I know this is unrelated to this video, but because I see this in almost all of your videos and it's a problem I'm dealing with, I have to ask. I have a very similar garage door and I'm trying to add Reflectix insulation to the panels similar to what you've got on yours. Assuming you insulated your door yourself, my question is, how did you adhere the insulation to the existing panels? I've been using the recommended 3M double-sided foam tape, but it keeps falling off. Sorry for the unrelated question, but I'd appreciate your help.
Mine is cut tight enough to fit between the panels. I also used spray adhesive but I don't think it held too well.
To my eye, that didn’t look to be putting much pressure downwards on the stock, even once extended. Kinda like your 1/4” notch was a tad bigger than 1/4” high.
What if you created an extension like the Grrriper has to hold the outer piece down? Attach it to the top of the push block and extend out over the blade and down to the workpiece.
Good idea
That's what I was going to say. you could make it to snap in place to hold the wood so your fingers are no where near it. Great job and idea Matt!!
Make a couple slots to allow the side to slide up and down and use a couple knobs to screw into inserts to tighten it down.
The stair step pattern seems completely unnecessary. If you want a small hook on the back, just make your 1/8" notch stop an inch from the end. This will handle any thickness of material. It does not need to ride on top of the fence.
Love the iterative nature of this project. I don't think the multi-levels are necessary. I think you would get similar results with a single cleat further back- leaving most of the push block on the work piece, that way most of the force is being applied down. This would stop the piece from rising.
You correctly identified the issue, from a kick-back standpoint the notch should be at the very end. However, the farther back the notch is, the more your arm must travel above the blade and the more you must bend your torso over the table.
This is a decent push stick, but I'm with you.....it leaves me a little nervous.
Make notches on both sides in opposite directions and put the hand-dowel more centered. Then it is reversible.
If you want different thicknesses, make the notch on the other side “deeper.”
I like how you owned up to your initial mistake. :)
Ohh and ya always enjoy your vids
Where's the blade guard?
🤔🤔🤔
Perhaps thee handle needs to be more forward. Just forwarded of canter.
What kind of tripod is that for the iPhone?
DJI Osmo
If you cut thin straps from a certain thickness stock a lot you can make ones for each one. Sure you would have more the one push stick but it would be even more safe cause you would put the notch all the way in the back for each.
I just don't see the point of the stepped heels. Make just one small heel and you'll have the downward pressure you need to keep the piece from "floating" no matter the thickness
Why wouldn't you just use the bandsaw to cut the thin strips?? No kick back,more strips, and you have more control
My suggestion just put a knife at the back end so that hooks no matter what thickness you're doing and you have 100% hold down in the front bad design if you're not in the front Notch it in the back to catch your would push it through😅
It seems like it would be easier and safer to make thin cuts on a sled....
A little more tweaking and I think you’d have everyone sold on it. I like the idea of cutting those grooves further back. Also I was trying to think back in your older videos, and I can’t remember if you have ever seen some massive kick back before? If you have, how did you handle it?
Theres no point in having multiple notches, having only 1 is much safer
It's interesting Matt, ShopSmith has been selling a very similar item for decades. But their version has just 1 notch way back at the rear and the saw side is adjustable with slotted holes. 😉
I have used the Shopsmith version with a featherboard. But now I have a jig that cuts strips nicely onoutside of blade. Still use the featherboard.
Liked the video, you did not sell the idea of this type of push stick though. Did not feel safe to me. I will not make mine like this.
Just get a Grrrripper! 🤷🏼♂️
Put the handle on the front.
What box?
🖖
I'd rather have one cut in the back so the front would help keep the piece with down pressure.
💯👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I will no longer be making comments because I get spammed every time I do by someone trying to direct me to WhatsApp or another site.
I block them as soon as I see them. They are all over CZcams, unfortunately.
Appreciate the clarification, I was wondering what the heck that was all about!
You failed bud! Their design is great your newbie skill is what made it wiggle, why do people on YT interneters, always rip small strips with the fall off piece at the friggen fence side of cut? Do you not have enough time to move the fence for every cut and do it safe? I’m sure you don’t because you film everything you do, your narcissistic selfie stick sees more attention than anything and this what our failing society longs for……sad! Take the time and do it correctly and stop worrying about getting out more content! They had a beautiful design, we have a dysfunctional society who’s been mind controlled by tv and celeb culture!
Please edit your video to tell everyone not to use that thing! There have to be 10 better ways of cutting thin strips than that.
you dont know how to use it
First comment!
👊
Silly goose!
don't know what I'm missing here but I don't see any obvious difference between the mag design and your modified version.
Shopsmith has a great design on this for their fence system. Instead of the part on the saw side being fixed, it can slide up and down to accommodate different size stock. The heal is closer to the back of the push block. This keeps the stock more secure. I use a Shopsmith, and I love it. www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/images/ss_safety_kit_l.jpg