Small incident (with explication) between Wang Chuqin and Truls Moregard
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- čas přidán 18. 07. 2022
- Small incident (with explication) between Wang Chuqin and Truls Moregard.
Truls Moregard vs Wang Chuqin | MS | WTT Star Contender European Summer Series 2022 (Finals)
Small incidents in the final game!
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Wang’s Chinese nick name is “Big Head” 大头 for a reason 😂
He looks like me 🤣
Very glad you are bringing this up, to get some wider public attention. It's not about criticising one player for serving illegally (when so many shamelessly do it), it should be about the ITTF actually enforcing the rules, or removing them. It was fine when all players could shield the ball on serve, then it was the same for everyone. "The umpire can't see it" is an appalling excuse we hear from the ITTF - why do we have rules that umpires cannot enforce, that allow dishonest or accidentally play to seriously affect a match ? Enforce the rule, somehow (maybe with one of the umpires being a middle serve umpire), or remove the rule. I hope we can have some progress on this issue from the ITTF, it's a stain on the sport.
yeah... this needs some serious attention from rule enforcers.
Wang Chuqin is sometimes shielding the point off contact with his head and sometimes he doesn't
That's how Wang's nicknamed "big head" as a child, and still is known by this nickname.
@@ignatiussun3325 lmao
My biggest complaint with Wang Chuqin's serve is that he contacts the ball OVER the table/inside the white line. This is obvious in the replays.
Yes, it looks that most of his serves are played over the table. Watching his games I was surprised why a referee does not indicate this as a foul.
He also doesnt really throw the ball up anywhere high enough. Just lifts His Arm and "releases" the ball from his palm
@@theodoralambert7999 Think you are right. Without slow motion it looks like he's serving over the table but if you watch the the replay carefully it looks like only the after motuon of his arm is over the table. Point of contact is behind the line
Not really. If you see the vertical line of the tossed ball, it will fall to the floor behind white line of table
@@darekk7459you would not be surprised if you knew you did not see clearly. Comments of other people here did good explanation and that is exactly the reason why referees did not indicate that’ll foul. Referees know far more than you.
I wish everyone’s serve is as clean as like timo boll. It’s always a problem for a righty to see a lefty’s forehand serve if a righty receiver chooses to stand on the backhand side of the table. In general, wangchuqin’s serve looks good to me based on the current rules. I can also see where Truls complaints came from. But if Truls could move his receiving position to the middle… also it’s a longstanding issue of ITTF rules
You can't see the serve, but you can flick it, eh?
He’s face covers the ball
the ball definitely travelled along the side of his face and just reappeared around his neck area, this is the yoshimura serve 🤣
Coach Em Rat Thich never makes Click Bait…never!!!! Always deep insight and analysis… Thank you Coach!
You sir are about 12 IQ.
I think the TT umpires should more strictly enforce the rules. Encouraging the players to Test always the edge and get away with it, Leads to frustration. The receiverhas to make sure that the contact point is visible. If the receiver is testing the edge it is in doubt a fault.
I agree, Wang's serves were hard to see and sometimes they looked too close to the table as well. The umpire should've called it out somewhere in the match and give Wang more explanation on why the serve is unfair
that is the main problem i've noticed with wang's serve. he is definitely over the table on contact on some of the serves. sometimes the ball is obscured by his head but we don't have a clear camera angle to know if point of contact was obscured. there is no reason that ittf or wtt or whoever cannot implement more clear rules and the use of technology to enforce the rules on service.
wang chuquin is a talented player and i think he dont need to play dirty for to win the game . Apparentelly he dont learn the lesson when his own asociation punish him.
Wang's serve looks pretty normal to me.
I think the serve at 2:10 is not OK as can be seen in that slowmo.
Plus now imagine that from Truls perspective it´s even worse than the camera angle.
I´m not exactly sure of the exact rule right now, but I would prefer if the ball was visible all the time from the throw to the contact point and not just for a milisecond of the contact (if that).
I agree, if the rule exists it must be applied, otherwise it is very much subject to the will of the referee, and players can be harmed or benefited and the match can be seriously affected. But if the rule is difficult for referees to observe it should be removed or the ITTF should provide tools so that it can be applied accurately.
👍
Some of his serves are questionable, but are not blatant faults. Nevertheless, it's up to the umpire to ask the player to make the ball more visible
I can give you 3 reasons why theyre definitely blatant faults...
نام على بطنك
The service rule is poorly written and desperately needs an update for clarity.
"From the start of service until it is struck, the ball shall be above the level of the playing surface and behind the server's end line, and it shall not be hidden from the receiver by any part of the body or clothing of the server or his doubles partner"
To judge 100% that the ball is not "hidden from the receiver" the umpire would need to be psychic. Also in competitions where there is only one umpire it's impossible for the umpire to see half the time because their view of the service is obscured by the serving player.
I've heard more interesting and definite rules like "nothing between the ball and any part of the net assembly".
The vertical toss rule is also ridiculous and unnecessary and results in a pile of laughable faults. Anything from 60% to vertical would be fine. It's illegal to serve behind your body so it's physically impossible to toss the ball that far back anyway.
A camera behind players would help at least
@@mpt2129 The camera is from different angle from the receiver sadly. it's impossible to get camera from right of receiver's angle/
I think is better when a left hand player plays against right hand player the umpire should be sit the opposite side, so could see how the both players servers. Is it a easy, right?
In an ordinary stance the receiver should see the ball of the server clearly. Not only when the receiver needs to adjust his/her angle just to see the ball making contact to the racket. My opinion the umpire should have called this out. Umpire's must be given rigid training about rules of the game.
the rules arent enforced that consistently anyway, because its not feasible. if its apparent to an absurd degree, players will be called. the whole serve rules are a bit weird, i dont know how one would fix this issue
Hidden or not depends on where you view it
at least they gave each other the handshake and talked ☺️
Easy. Where is the ball at (exactly) 2:10?
The “serve” not hidden by head” is a very difficult rule to follow. Especially if you are a very quick moving player. Like shown in previous videos most Chinese players will move into next ball position while serving (step to the middle). So while the ball is in downward motion risk of being covered by head or shoulder. Not sure what to do about it to be honest.
Wcq obviously serves illegally, like many other players, both on amateur and pro level.
The umpire did a bad job for not calling the fault service, but the position of the umpire is horrible, so they often aren't able to tell if the serve is hidden or not, since the angle is nowhere the same as the opponents of the server.
good point. the ump can't see anything from his position in this case.
Bad sportsmanship on the part of Moregard. He was losing and wanted to upset and distract Wang Chuqin. Moregard is known to throw tantrums when things aren’t going his way. BTW, there are always 2 umpires sitting opposite each other at every match.
The ball is visible to the receiver depending on where he stands. The real problem for Truls is, he cannot see the service motion before contact! This however is perfectly legal.
a legal serve is when the Umpire can see iy. It the the duty of the player to ensure that the umpire sees it, from the video, do you think the Umpire saw it?
@@anilram3680 There are 2 umpires in an official game. Depending on where the umpire sit, and whether the player is right hand or left hand, 1 of the umpire can never see the serve. In this video, the umpire who called "Let" can only see WCQ's back, and how high/ curved he tossed the ball. He is in a position where he cannot determine whether WCQ hide the contact point, and he will depend on the other umpire sitting opposite to call whether WCQ serve is illegal or not. Cocky Truls thought that the umpire called the serve illegal, but he called LET in this situation, because he thought the ball touched the net. If he had called LET because WCQ serve is illegal, he would have given WCQ a warning after calling LET.
In crucial moments Wang's serve was not legit.. and the umpire made a mistake of not calling it out.. that's all that I have to say.
I wish you would say more because I love your accent.
It’s sad at this level, the finals of a star contender event, that issued of illegal serves are still present. The umpire shouldn’t of been scared to call it out, because it’s unfair for Truls otherwise, and Wang should’ve known better than to use cheap tricks in a finals. Sadly umpires these days are always too scared to call out when need be, except attitude apparently. If they were more persistent on illegal serves, these issues would be less frequent.
whatever it takes to beat this guy. Truls general bad sportsmanship is fast becoming legendary!..
Wow, that's sportsmanship. You must be popular training partner..
Small accident does not change the final result
Truls Moregard is a festival kid. Kicking the ball, raging, fooling around, talking, etc. - all his character. Super player, with brilliant hands - but mentally, he's not the strongest.
Completely disagree, the way he's turned around matches like Lim Jonghoon in the WC and more the previous tournament, shows his excellent mental abilities.
@@pedness hahaha win = strong mental ability? hahahah - no!!!!!
Perfect coaching vision - break the rhythm and play with a completely different base - pro hand + pro coach - but not so strong mental ability... 3/3 4-7 last set do I kick the ball? very strong... hahaha... hahaha
TM - he has very good hands and he can play not only in one way - really great - but mentally he is a child
@@-beno- Mentally the toughest kid I've ever seen in that case. Look at Lin Gaoyuan, who's one of the most technical players in the world, he lost in the finals because of his lack of determination and ability to handle pressure, where as Truls has shown time and again that he never suffers during pressure, he rather excels and pulls in next gear. If this is not strong mentality, I'm not sure what is.
It's not only that you win, but how you win.
unlike every other player Wang Chuquin's body is inside the white line of the table,so,high probability that the ball contact of his serve is inside that white line..because of his body structure ang height,he can easily hide that contact.
I also think ...the service is fine
I have had games where the referee has more prominence than the players themselves and they are able to take you out of the game and then you will lose. It is unfortunate since there are many players who serve illegally in theory and they are not told anything because of who they are if you are not known and you reach important finals you will pay because of the referee, without a doubt I have experienced it
maybe the rule for serving in single play should be the same as in the double play, to force the angle being smaller so the receiver is able to see the contact point even with lefty servers and righty receivers. maybe this rule should be applied only when the players differ in lefty and righty
Left handers serve is hard to see by nature of a righthander. Because the righthander is used to standing in his forehand dominant position on the left side of the table. Left hander serving pendulum is hard to see. However i think the inverse is also true. A right handers pendulum serve can be done to make it hard for the lefthander. I think right handers should practice adjusting standing position to a little more to the center of the table to counter this and vice versa.
Chinese team has very strict training. I would be laughing if you tell me that a top player like Wang cannot get the service right. Viewers from different angles could draw different conclusions so it's better to leave the judgement to the Umpire.
Moregard no puede confundir las cosas, Moregard pierde el partido por que wang fue mejor, Moregard es muy buen jugador le ha ganado a los mejore, pero es muy joven y le falta experiencia y controlar su emociones, con esa actitud no gana los partidos.
Moregard can not confuse things, Moregard loses the match because wang was better, Moregard is a very good player has beaten the best, but he is very young and lacks experience and control his emotions, with that attitude he does not win the matches.
No, se equivoca porque Wang servía de ese modo cuando lo necesitaba de hecho truls se sale del partido cuando iban 1-1 10-10 puesto que Wang le servía de ese modo
I bet if we had VAR for serves in TT a significant percentage would be deemed illegal. Without the use of technology the current rules are very difficult to enforce because of the sheer speed of the game.
the best solution is to give the receiver the right to challenge when they can't see the service instead of letting the umpire call an illegal serve. so many top players cheat from time to time throughout the duration of a match and many points are decided under 3-4 rallys. i am sure that cameras can be placed from both ends of the table and this problem will be solved. I just wish players can be honest like timo boll, lin yunju...look at their serves...both players let u see the ball clearly...Jha is another top player that serves legally all the time.
oh...and umpires calling faults is not gonna help...so what if u get a warning...players that cheat during important situations will do it again and again...just let the receiver call it when the point of contact cannot be seen..i mean these professionals have respect for each other...I am sure the server will gladly replay the point if the receiver makes a complaint...the umpire can go to the camera if the server doesn't agree..I doubt any professional would actually be proud of winning due to hiding the serve
the best way is to be clear with the rule...heck...instead of hiding the serve or can't see the contact..CALL IT FAULT when it is hard to see instead of can't see...because players use their body and head and the contact might be like 5cm away and it is still hard to see.....look at timo boll and Lin Yun ju....their serves are like at least 15cm away from any parts of their body...Look at Lin Yun ju...his serve can be seen from any angle...
Without knowing what the complaint about the serve was , you can see the ball was was contacted inside the back line over table. Maybe the referee couldn’t see that from his chair.
Tapa la pelota con la cabeza, desde la posiciòn de ambos jueces es imposible ver la falta. Solo si tuviesen 4 jueces de los cuales 2 deberian ubicarse enfrentados y dos en los laterales de la mesa. O bien un Sistema de Var como en el futbol.
Please respect the qualified umpires you internet umpires
we must understand that TT is basically a sports of "the art of deceiving"...WC was with thousands scrutiny of refs/umpires, his assoc, his being #2 in the world etc. it's a wonderfully done stroke of served that an opponent was deceived by a fraction of sec. 💪✌🤔
The rule are like that. It doesn’t matter if Moregard always sees ball or not. The main and first thing that the umpire has to be sure the service is legal. From this match the umpire was sure the service of WCQ was legal. It means the opinion of Moregard is wrong. These are the rules.
watched it in slow motion. WCQ's contact point is visible only if Moregard stood at the right half of the table, which means WCQ's serve is legal. If Moregard still can't see the contact point at the right corner of the table, then WCQ's serve should be called a foul.
Hmm not exactly. The ball must be visible the WHOLE time - not just right on contact. This was not the case in the slow motion. Regardless Wang deserved the win.
Yeah thats just wrong logic and simply not true what youre saying.
Moregard sometime cheating too. He throw up ball not enough vertical sometime. A lot of players use some cheats. Hiding ball by head - classic. ))
He behaves like a spoiled kid, infamous for his bad attitude during the game. Maybe that is should be called out because it is really effective to enrage his opponent.
It is entirely incumbent on the players to serve the ball to the satisfaction of the officials. To wit, if the officials can't see the ball, they're within their rights to call a fault.
The serve in this case looks like got hidden by the server's body while bending down to serve. Whether intentional or pure accident is open to interpretation but onus is on the server to do clean serves and leave no doubt.
I think if we have expensive machine to test for illegal clue . We should have two camera ( with zoom in capacity ) put on end of each court Each player will have a challenge call for illegal service each game .If the player wins a challenge, the player can have one more challenge . After two illegal service , the player lose the whole game . I bet if you adopt this challenge . The server will make sure even the bat can see the ball on the service. It is just the ITTF is not progressive on enforcing rule.
The only thing i can say is Wang Chuqin do a very high level serve to make it only invisible to his opponent but the umpire still define that's legal (his right hand do a very good misleading to the umpire) Just like some those grey area action in soccer and basketball
That needs alot of pratice though, it's totally different with those amateur players who don't give a shit about the rules at all
Wan's serve wasn't visible to the umpire from the camera angle seen. The law says it must be visible to both the receiver and umpire from the toss to point of contact.
Refs should have a talk session with players like in boxing before the match starts. At that time the refs should explain to the players what serves or behaviors he will call as faults ahead of time so that the players can mentally adjust and prep their serves before the game even starts. Refs should also explain the tolerances and limits hed be looking for to call a fault. So that any fault call within the match will not affect players mentality.. and if the ref does call a fault its totally the players fault by then.
Al tal moregard ese,,mas le vale a su entrenador darle unas lecciones de educación y deportividad,,en todos los partidos tiene problemas ,y busca bronca,,en mis tiempos de jugador,me encontré con varios "jugadores" que eran igual que él,en cuanto van perdiendo,empiezn a montar numeritos para descentrar al rival,,malos deportistas,,
I guess point should be given to truls
Because ball n bat point not visible to opponent
Hiding the contact behind the head
Wang Chuqin has no problem serving,but Moregard has a problem with his position . He could just move a little to the right.
I am really confused, what do you actually want to say in this video? The title say EXPLANATION! Where is that EXPLANATION? And people opinions are always different, what's the point of asking about it, however good luck 👍
not only hidden but it also looks like its from inside the table
you sir are blind AF.
Actually there's something wrong with Wang Chu's service, I hope he fix it
love u pingsunday, keep doin what youre doin
you have bad taste then.
Shielding from Wang chuqin was unintentional and in fact he had been penalised before. To give away free points in crucial games are not in his best interest.
he didn't give away free points, he got away with a ton of illegal serving
It seems to he was hiding with head if not body considering relative position from left and right handed which makes the serve illegal . If its deliberate wang chuqin might get points but lost true sportsmanship which is not uncommon in professional ping pong , umpire knows that but ignore it since they don't want to subject of backfire especially when players represent country not club. Some of the country not very gentleman in nature and even gentleman country sometimes get retaliation. I know many incidents like this but I don't want to disclose it , you will be surprised
the ball isnt visible while falling down behind the head
судя по видео, В-Ч Ц ,вообще подавал над столом и вдобавок прикрывал момент подачи.Почему судья не судил ?
Illegal, his head covers the ball a short moment before contact.
revamp the rule. don't let the empire dictate the outcome of the game
Stop blaming the opponent if you cant read the serve. Maybe have to brush up in that area. Never blame this,blame that and be that sore loser!
Shame to China and Wang Chuqin for illegal dirty tricks! They dont teach their players how to win fair and act good.
He is definitely hiding his serves. Maybe not every single serve, but he has now cringe reputation.
No respect for Wang Chuqin and shame for chinese coaches!
I think, they are trained by the coaches to do it at important scores….
The ball is not visible in this case and for me this is not in accordance with the rules.
From my point of view this is cheating.
I see more and more people from the Chinese region who make such a serve, so that the opponent can not see how the ball is played.
This should be stopped.
Muchos jugadores hacen saques ilegales y no hay quien lo controle
Service was not legal
I think this "explication" video was really bad. Mostly just repeating what we can already hear and see 😞
Wang is a professional, he hides the ball on purpose, no doubt about that. he should have been sanctioned for that.
for sure an illegal serve i hope the umpires start being more strict with hiding the ball
ban forehand serves...only backhand serves😅
that serve was hidden, totally illegal.
100% Illegal serve 50% of the time! Me being dramatic would keep complaining then if the Umpire refuse to do something I just say Ty and walk away from the match
Glad they shook hands at the end. Things go so fast in a serve it's never easy to judge although Truls seem honest and known to be a gentleman so the judge should at least remind both players of the rule and that he will observe it.
Looks like an over drilled athletic table tennis player, that plays to a recipe.
Look like hidden service 🤔😳
For me wang serve with an intentionnally hidden to opponent..
대두쉑 32강 탈락 잘했다. 트롤놈도 라켓던지더니 32강 탈락 꼬시다.
Its all the empite Fault.....
Truls has a point. It is like when you serve and blocking the ball with your other arm and the contact is under your other arm. Imagine (when you are right handed) , then you toss the ball, and you don't move away your left hand, and then the ball contacts under the left hand. And the Question is, is it legal when you serve, and you don't move away your left hand? (if you are right handed).
Service is fine! Contact point can be seen. Sorry Trulie
Only contact point is not enough:
"From the start of service until it is struck, the ball shall be above the level of
the playing surface and behind the server's end line, and it shall not be
hidden from the receiver by the server or his or her doubles partner or by
anything they wear or carry"
At 2:04 there is a frame where the ball is hidden from the camera view by WCQs head, and that camera is further on the right, thus it should be even harder for Truls to see the ball.
But well, everyone up there has serves that are at least in the grey zone, if not illegal
Table tennis umpires are a joke, probably the sport with the worst reffereeing in the world, they never enact on obvious rule violations.
*HANDBOOK FOR MATCH OFFICIALS:*
*10.5 Visibility*
10.5.1 The primary requirement of the current service law is for the server to ensure that the receiver can see the ball throughout the service, and the umpire or assistant umpire must be satisfied that this is the case. The umpire or assistant umpire should look to see that the ball is not hidden from the receiver at any stage by any part of the body, or anything he or she or his or her doubles partner is wearing or carrying, and that the server’s free arm, which includes the free hand, is moved from the space between the ball and the net, as soon as he or she releases the ball.
10.5.2 The ball must be above the level of the playing surface at the start of service. There is, however, no specific requirement for the receiver to be able to see the racket throughout service, and the server may quite legitimately begin service with the racket concealed, for example, behind his or her back.
10.5.3 From their positions in line with the net it may be impractical for the umpire and/or the assistant umpire to judge whether the ball is struck illegally if it is struck close to the end line or beside a player’s body. It is, however, the responsibility of the player to serve so that the correctness of his or her service action can be seen and if he or she serves near the margins of illegality he or she runs the risk of being penalised.
Wang hid his paddle only at the beginning. That is legal. The ball was visible to the opponent all the time
@@DavidXFu-gk9mp It depends on where the opponent stands. Notwithstanding, Wang was very close to violating the rules, including the vertical throw of the ball.
@@DavidXFu-gk9mp Read the excerpt I provided of the Rulebook. You have an obligation to the umpires to demonstrate a legal serve, not just the opponent.
@@DavidXFu-gk9mp I reviewed the video frame by frame. At 2:05 the ball is hidden behind Wang's head.
@@pappaflammyboi5799 I cannot see the ball was blocked by his head. His throw is not bad at all. Moregard is just a crybaby. I'm always afraid he would use his paddle to beat someone when he loses
Clearly, Truls was completely correct and his complaint was legit. Wang was hiding with his body on his serve. As an umpire myself. Yesterday, I was invited to the 20th Anniversary of a Local Table Tennis Centre where they had an exhibition matches between two highly ranked provincial table tennis players.
The umpire never called ANYTHING but BOTH PLAYERS at times were hiding their serves with their bodies. Most likely because their tosses were VERTICAL BUT BACKWARDS so they were LEANING THEIR SHOULDERS to hide the ball on the decent. Now, whether the players are doing it INTENTIONALLY OR UNINTENTIONALLY. ITTF should really look into this and get the umpire to be MORE STRICT AND MAKING THE CORRECT CALLS.
Otherwise, the whole sport would be put into question. Now, that umpire himself was NOT a sanctioned one so it is like speaking a complete different language and with it being an exhibition match. No one really cared. But still, everyone who plays the sport itself, SHOULD KNOW THE BLOODY RULE or don't play at all, period. This is called sportsmanship, fairness NEEDS TO taken in account.
Wang is a good player for a while. will fall soon
Legal serve.
Hidden by the head !
Illegal... The ball was hidden from the view of the opponent. You can only see the ball from the side camera
Almost every TT player obscures the view of the ball. Some are more blatant violations of the service rules than others.
Either the ITTF works to call more faults when they happen, or dispense with the rule altogether.
Truls is right the service should be visible at all times and umpire should have noticed and give him a point then Wang wouldn't do it again. But he didn't and insist there is no violation. I hope these umpires would not get such important matches let alone finals ever again. Good win for Wang but at the same time he didn't need to hide his serves at any time.
lol even Truls can't make a clean serve. so stop with that non sense.
@@jiboo6850 next to Wang all of his serves are legal
@@rakishman1313 hahaha! you funny clown.
@@jiboo6850 you funny idiot
That serve is not perfect, but not illegal. Moregard's behavior after umpire order the game to continue is a tactics to enrage his opponent, should be called out.
Yeah looks like it could be blocked , and the Umpire can't see where he's sitting at they, need instant replay! Also sometimes the Umpires have a ego problem sometimes.
Serve is legal
Wang hid his paddle at the beginning. But this is legal. The ball was visible to the opponent all the time
"The serving player or pair must not take any action which would prevent the receiver from seeing the ball from the time at which it leaves the server’s hand and seeing the side of the racket used to strike the ball"
VOICE
Second
I think the serve was legal