Ed Sheeran Won. What Is The Lesson?
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 6. 05. 2023
- In this livestream, I discuss why Ed Sheeran won his lawsuit for his song "Thinking Out Loud" vs Marvin Gaye's song "Let's Get It On" and what the lessons learned are.
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The real lesson is the Lawyers always win đ°
Yes. Those hyenas even I like hyenas.
Exactly
Don't paint such a broad picture... 99.5% of lawyers don't even do the trial work you associate with "bad lawyers"... the majority of doing research and background work, and doing right by their clients... and are good people!
Exactly!!! Lawyers created over 8 years of paid work for themselves...what a joke!
Real reason is plaintiffs had zero case.
Ed found over a hundred songs that use the same cords and even songs that came out years before the song he was accused of copying and thats how he won. He said this in an interview.
he didnt so much just find the songs, he took his guitar to court and played the same cord patten and sung a few lines from the all with out changing cord patten. nothing beats a practical demonstration.
Itâs because there is only 12 chords⊠if you copyright chords no music could be made⊠now like 60k songs come out on Spotify a monthâŠ..
Itâs amazing to grow up in a time when this level of music theory is delivered for free by Rick, regularly as a commentary.
Sheeran's lawyer told jurors he found 80 songs that contain the same chord progression as âLetâs Get it On,â with 33 coming before the Gaye song was released in 1973. Sheeran was actually sued by Structured Asset Sales, owners of a third of the copyright on the Gaye song. In the end, owners of the publishing rights for
both songs won, as both songs received a major increase in exposure.
Probably as big a reason to do these lawsuits, as anything.
It would take a lot of listens on Spotify to cover the legal costs?
yes marvin gaye and sheeran needed increase in exposure
Not SAS here.
@@michaelfarkas2257 ha ha ha ha
Adam Neeley brought up a good point in his latest video on this. Ed was writing within a genre, the pop soul ballad genre, hence why it sounds similar to other songs in the genre, if he used conventions outside of the genre, then he wouldn't be writing in the genre anymore. I feel like blurred lines lawsuit set a dangerous precedent for music in that now they can go after songs that have a similar feel or are in a similar genre.
I agree and that is a SERIOUS copyright issue - AI being trained WITHOUT any permission of the owner of the IP - both music and say fine arts.
My opinion compeletley
In my opinion, and I have zero legal training outside of a decent education in English reading comprehension and logic, this Ed Sheeran case was much closer to infringement than Blurred Lines ever was. I personally donât believe either should be considered infringing, but I could at least SEE the connection in Sheeranâs case. That said, the real dark horse in every case is the jury and their ability to be swayed by the attorneys.
@@bdr518 I feel like with an uneducated jury, a poor deposition by the defendents, a judge that rules out important evidence, and a dose of some unethical lawyers and experts, you could have a court find that the Earth is flat - and then have that as precedent that everyone else must fight against. This is what happened in the Blurred Lines suit.
It should be the case that the jury must have reached some level of education in the matter at hand, third parties should be able to put forth arguments for the court to consider (at their own expense), should be tried by a panel of educated judges, and lawyers and experts should be peer reviewed for meeting standards.
@@bdr518 Funny that you use the expression dark horse as that was another frivolous lawsuit that hinged on being able to copyright a descending minor scale and Flame won, another dangerous precedent.
Thank God these crazy lawsuits weren't around in the Doo Wop era. EVERYTHING on the radio was the same four chords. And it was GREAT! Congratulations, Ed Sheeran!
The fact is certain chords go together to work properly and considering there are only 7 notes in the music scale it is inevitable that there are going to be similar compositions popping up occasionally.
Twelve notes đ It just might be time to buy the Beato Bundle to freshen up...
â@@UserNameWasCensored 7 notes in the scale,twelve notes in the octave
well put
Yes, remember "My Sweet Lord" by George Harrison and the song "She's So Fine". and that lawsuit that pursued?. I personally didn't even think that they were that similar at all! Didn't get it at the time, still don't.
â@@tonytrickschromatic SCALE ??????? 12 notes man. 12
Awesome vid again Rick. I've been playing since 1973, and learned the to play guitar the same way, using records and tapes. I had a voracious appetite for learning music, my teachers were Bob Dylan, Peter Paul and Mary, Gord Lightfoot, Pete Seeger, etc, etc. After 50 years of playing, I can join in on pretty much any song in any key and people are surprised as though I was performing some kind of magic or something. The long hours of ear training have become a tool in my kit as it were.
On another note, Imagine the law suits when they discover how many songs are based on the 12-bar blues! Or how every pop tune for over 2 decades used the same 4 chord progression C-Am-F-G.
I don't get the argument that Ed Sheeran's song takes revenue away from Marvin Gaye's.
That's like saying; "Wow! Now that Ed wrote this song, I don't need to listen to Marvin's any more".
It's completely asinine.
You cannot copyright a chord progression any more than you can copyright the alphabet. I'm glad this precedent has been tried in court. Though I highly doubt it will stop the frivolous lawsuits, after all lawyers gotta eat as well, and at they end of the lawsuit, they all get paid regardless of the outcome.
What does not make sense is our ears don't lie. The Verve's Bitter Symphony should of never lost to the Rolling Stones, as when hearing the 2 songs in question they sound nothing alike. What is worse the Verve sought to do it right on the part that they barrowed. Here, in the Gaye/Sheeran case, the songs sound the same. You music guys claiming that they are technically different notwithstanding, well if that's true then I could do this with any Hit song Id like to copy, Just use a single different note and call it a day because, technically its not the same anymore, right? Dumb, dumb, dumb. We know when something sounds like something else as in a type of genre and we also know when something is the obviously the same song with a slightly different package. C'mon. This is going to be great when AI makes these imperceptible note changes and reissues the entire Beatles catalogue from some New Great Corporate Group. I have a feeling some of you then will cry foul, But when this happens you guys are the ones that allowed this to happen by setting this required definition of different as being as little as you described it needed to be. When that day comes I am going to laugh and think to myself, "Ed you sly devil you." technically they arent the same, LOL.
If they disallowed songs from sounding similar, entire genres would die! There's a reason why copyright is for melody and/or lyrics.
reminds me of the "The" Ohio State University trying to copyright the word "The"...frivolous and only made lawyers more money
Style is based on limitations. Music is based on repetition. - John Hartford
This is basically a free course that covered more than what my old instructor took about 6 months to cover when I was learning music theory. Thank you Rick and the internet for making these type of videos that will hopefully help so many musicians trying to learn music and they won't take as long as I took a couple of decades ago hahah Cheers!
Same
Blues Traveler has a song with lyrics that start with, "Just another I, IV, V, about as cute as can be and danceable, but I don't really care." They also use Pachbel's canon chord progression for one of their biggest hits, Hook. Every chord progression has been played and they absolutely should not be protected. There are only a limited number of options.
yes, and Hook is literally a song saying "hey I can sing about any crappy thing, and as long as I have a pretty good hook you'll like this song" The fact that it's a for real hit is so meta, lol.
that's an ai lyric
The most important thing with your song writing is sincerity. If you can fake that, you've got it made!
Rick would be an excellent expert witness on music theory in court. It could be a lucrative side hustle.
As things progress, this may come to pass.
More money for interviews yeah
He's too emotional and at 61 he's a good 10 or 20 years too old to be up to speed and versed on popular music trends in 2023, anything pre 2000s would be more his forte, maybe early 2000s but like I say he's at least 10-15 years too old
@@benadams1661 popular music trends in 2023? It's all garbage compared to the past, nobody needs to be versed in current trends lol
â@@benadams1661 what's on the hitlists is completely irrelevant in this context. It's about what can be copyrighted and not. That boils down to lyrics, beats and chords, and understanding when it crosses over from being generic public domain to being a unique intellectual property. Also, we only have 12 notes in music. That hasn't changed.
Saw the sale and bought the bundle recently. I'm excited to fully delve into it with summer, currently am self taught on guitar, bass, and drums for about 3 years while starting lessons for guitar this past year through college. I'm enjoying the guitar courses so far, and found the PDFs helpful
If a chord progression can be copyrighted, than every single song ever created could potentially have a copyright claim file against it... including the Marvin Gaye song as I'm certain there were songs written before "Let's get it on" that used the same exact progression.
Right. In pop music, simplicity is almost always the common factor. Using the same progressions and rhythms is inevitable.
Oh yeah. Name those songs. But you won't.
The verse of True Love Ways by Buddy Holly, released in 1959 (I think this is the earliest recorded pop song that uses I iii IV V progression
The Beatles - I Feel Fine
Elton John - Crocodile Rock
Rod Stewart - Have I Told You Lately
are other examples uses the same chord progression: these pre-date Let's Get It On
It's more the fact that the songs sound so similar look at photograph by ed and amazing by Matt cardle they are identical
Pachelbel's estate would have had a field day.
As a songwriter I am glad Ed Won. As you said Rick, you can't copyright chords, and beats, only melody and lyrics.
I too am a songwriter and a pianoplayer. That being said, Ed Sheeran said he couldn't write a song without using those chords used in 'Let's Get It On'. If that's the case, he's obviously plateaued out as a songwriter. He's nothing more than mediocre as it is with most of the trash being heaped upon the younger generations. Genre has nothing to do with it and if it does, then Sheeran could be a little more original.
@@gpiano88 Writing a pop song without using the I, IV and V chords sounds rather difficult. Those chords define the major key and western music as a whole buddy
@@calle9766 I don't buy that at all. It is rather limited and inhibits creativity. John F. Kennedy once said; 'Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth'.
@@gpiano88 It is limited, and it does inhibit creativity. But thatâs modern pop music and itâs building blocks. Endless Country and Rock nâ Roll songs have been made on just those three chords. Not to mention the 12-bar blues wich traditionally only uses those three chords. As a modern pop songwriter Ed is very limited in what he can do when it comes to making a hit record. Modern pop is mass produced and thatâs just the reality of it. In todays standard there are only 6 possible chords (since the diminished chord is very rarely used nowadays) for a pop song. I donât like it but repetition is bound to happen and you canât copyright chord progressions, what you especially canât do (other youtubers have talked on this) is copyright the functional harmony behind a chord progression
James Jamersonâs bass line is the main element that makes the songs sound similar. But for some reason no one has ever mentioned it. Jamerson didnât even get royalties for his original performance.
He was a work for hire. Sold his rights to the music to composition.
â@@uprightdoublebass sure. Still, over time it has this feeling of exploitation. He died poor. He had to buy a ticket to attend that 25th anniversary event for Motown. Now, we are all aware of the relationship that he and the rest of the funk brothers had with the label, but at some level you'd think that even if Barry Gordy didn't mind exploited a few golden geese, Smokey might have felt a twinge of survivors guilt, maybe... Or not. Really, all we can say for sure is that the music business is ugly.
Bass lines and rhythms arenât copy-writable is my understanding.
Now I really have a hankering to hear "Eddie" by Styx. I know it was written about Ted Kennedy, but it should have been written about music theft pirate Eddie Sheeran. Maybe Styx will play it in concert...as a middle finger to Eddie.
@@brockmiller574 Any business has ugliness to it. The story of any of the brilliant musos, James Jamerson et al., should be told or made public.
Ed Sheeran was a major influence on the Beatles.
How so? Are you trying to be funny? Ed Sheeran wasn't even yet in diapers when the Beatles first hit the U.S. scene.
You must be fun at parties.
Glad they went with Hey Jude for the song title instead of Hey Dude though
@@Mucving Who must be fun at parties? Hint: I NEVER party.
đI love that movie, too.
As a formally trained and educated music guy, with rock/jazz blood, itâs great to see you break it down from a music theory perspective. Keep up your great work.
Same beats .technology can take over .đSo why r you fighting for your human life? just go with the flow... đ
No money in your pocket. Robots don't need credit cards.
@@eleanormedina6703 Ha ha đ Ha you read the book 1984? If not, you need to. You might see where going with the flow leads you.
@TheBella2u read it in middle school.
My boyfriend in college was full on anarchy guy.I dumped him.Cute as hell but ..loved attention.
22:58 As someone who has always struggled with pitch, one of my proudest musical moments was when I heard a song on the car radio, and then got home and played the bassline from memory. Such a cool feeling, especially for me.
(I donât have poor pitch for lack of practice per se. When I was first learning music my dad would play two notes more than an octave apart and I struggled to hear which one was higher. I tune my guitar using harmonics because I still sometimes have a hard time tuning it by fretting the 5th fret like all my friends do. Itâs not anywhere near as bad now, but I used to take more than half an hour to tune my guitar up.)
Nik Kershaw is a great one for writing songs with unusual chord progressions and he has key changes everywhere.
Yea, known for money making hits.
@@WhyTheHorseface Yeah unfortunately his prime was a time when there was a lot of talented artists. The Riddle is a great song though and reached number 3 in UK and Ireland. The Riddle had to compete with Stevie Wonder "I just called to say I love you", Wham "Freedom" and Chaka Khan "I feel for you" that just shows the level Kershaw was working against.
By comparison, "Thinking out loud" by Sheeran did reach number for 1 week, and had to compete with Meghan Trainor "All about that bass", Cheryl "I don't care" and Gareth Malone's All Star Choir "Wake me up". By far inferior competition for the number one spot.
@@WhyTheHorseface Also musicians love The Riddle, little girls love anything by Ed Sheeran.
@Julie Morris - That, combined with bloody unusual and disjointed lyrics that made no sense...
Near a tree by a river
There's a hole in the ground
Where an old man of Aran
Goes around and around
And his mind is a beacon
In the veil of the night
For a strange kind of fashion
There's a wrong and a right
But he'll never, never fight over you
I mean, seriously?
@@davidanderson4091 Still a thousand times better and more interesting than the absolute drivel below...
"When your legs don't work like they used to before
And I can't sweep you off of your feet
Will your mouth still remember the taste of my love
Will your eyes still smile from your cheeks"
RE: copyright and the late Gordon Lightfoot (RIP): "In April 1987, Gordon Lightfoot filed a lawsuit against Michael Masser, alleging that Masser's song "The Greatest Love of All" stole twenty-four bars from Lightfoot's 1970 hit 'If You Could Read My Mind.' According to Maclean's, Lightfoot commented, "It really rubbed me the wrong way. I don't want the present-day generation to think that I stole my song from him."[83] Lightfoot has stated that he dropped the suit when he felt it was having a negative effect on Whitney Houston, as the suit was about Masser and not her.[84] Ultimately the case was settled out of court and Masser issued a public apology.[85] ~~~~from Wikipedia entry on 'The Greatest Love of All.'
In this instance I think it likely that Lightfoot would have won the suit had it not been settled out of court.
One of my colleagues was on that trial. He was the tech guy for the trial team. Lawyers call that the "hot seat guy" On a computer in the courtroom, responsible for displaying the exhibits, deposition testimony, graphics etc + All the work of "herding cats" with the lawyers the night before (long nights) to make sure we've got everything we need for tomorrow. I heard Ed was very kind, generous, involved with his legal team & appreciative of the hard work they did. I think a victory legally and of character.
Great that ear training is mentioned so much
Getting familiar with the various intervals is so key here
I remember reading where Donald Fagan said there's nothing wrong with a simple melody as long as you have some interesting harmonies behind it. So it seems like music sounds the same because, as Rick has pointed out, people are using the same chord progressions over and over and never going outside those boundaries.
One of Rickâs best videos in a while. Good point, that in the end itâs up to the jury to decide if the songs are the same or not. And great examples of the music theory and how important it is to write melodies and chords that are unique, whenever possible. Well done!
The problem is the world consist of billions of people. You can sit at home, making a song all by yourself and there's a good chance it has (unknowingly) many similarities to songs you have never heard off on the other side of the world. There's no "unique" checker when you do something. This is true for almost everything in life. You might come up with a joke all by yourself, thinking you're very clever and then you see someone has already posted the same joke on twitter many times.
I was a business major and watching this video is like taking a course that I know Iâm gonna fail because I donât understand 90% of what Rick is talking about but Iâm gonna sit through it anyway because itâs just so fascinating. Even though I donât understand it đ
If you keep watching, listen to music, and have a basic understanding of some music.. it probably will start to make sense though.
I understand it almost perfectly, and Iâll tell you what...In short, as a composer, it is harder than H-E- đ đ (double hockey sticks đ) to write something completely original.
@@tidalboxer Yeah, humans are like AI. If you feed information in, and there's some links between pieces of information, our heads figure out how it works. Crazy, huh. :D
@@PianoMan-hx3ev exactly!
I have enjoyed music all my longish life and only now am I beginning to realise how little I actually know.
Hey Rick I have followed you for a couple years and love all you do. So I purchased your ultimate bundle finally. I am a mediocre guitar player with very good rhythm. Glad to be apart of your program. Brett Roy
I know some classical musicians that have no sense of rhythm even after years and years of learning.
Regarding AI you stated so well the sort of thing Iâve been saying. For example, AI never would have written Beethovens Ninth. Not only the addition of the soloists and chorus in the 4th movement, but the opening of the 1st, switching the 2nd and 3rd movements around, no break between the 3rd and 4th movements, and more. This piece was so ground-breaking that it arguably ushered in the Romantic period in music.
And of course other great rule-breaking composers: Debussy, Stravinsky, Schoenberg. AI would never have gone where these artists went.
Honestly, this happens periodically, I remember when RHCPâs Dani California almost went to lawsuit 17 years ago against Tom Pettyâs Mary Janes last dance. Tom took the high road though, saying itâs just pop music, we all borrow from each other.
It happens quite often for Sheeran. He's settled 4 suits out of court admitting plagerism outright and has been sued 3 other times. He's a ripoff artist. But he keeps making millions.
Tom Petty wasnât so âpettyâ after all⊠đ
No~!~ There's no ~HIGH ROAD~ when you copy even PARTS of songs~!~ PERIOD~!~
For that matter the great Gilbert O'Sullivan ( Alone Again (Naturally!)), (and Claire)
amongst several other great songs of his,, shouldn't have sued those rap groups, even though they only used small samples of his songs in their songs?!?!?!
Stay away from other artists works!!!! PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Elvis Costello said essentially the same thing re: Olivia Rodrigo.
Of course, Tom took the high roadâŠheâs seen the inside of enough courts in HIS career (over the forced change in labels from Shelter/ABC to MCA, then over âDamn The Torpedoesâ release - in which Petty actually had to declare bankruptcy!) and wasnât going to subject any other band to the same thing. What went on with Sam Smith was NOT Tom Petty, but Jeff Lynne who sued.
One of your best videos.
I wish I was given the advice of the significance of training your ear as a guitar player and musician when I was a kid
Well, I'll just say we feature Thinking Out Loud into Let's Get it On in our in our sets. They go seamlessly. The Vocal melodies aren't identical but the progressions and meter are.
Yeah, and thatâs a great service to the professionals that need some tunes to kill time. Itâs 6 minutes total, and thats good for a 1-2 hour set.
đđœđđœđđœđđœđđœđđœâ„ïž
@@supercussion6590 Indeed...folks find it entertaining as well.
4:50 no it's not just the lawyering, it's also dependent on the "ear" ability of the members of both juries.
the irony here is that an average person wouldn't be able to tell similar chord progressions in different songs. To them Sheeran's song most likely sounded even more different. And that's kind of cool. When you become a musician and get to learn how to deconstruct what you hear - music loses its magic that is still there for other people.
Should we send Ed a Beato book?
Only a copy of the relevant pages
Only lesson is that 4 chords cannot be copyrighted or every Pop artist would be suing and counter-suing each other
I am an IP atty and a musician. Copyright is very problematic, this case is just another example of the real issues with it. It's hard to apply, people are the least educated about it, and not many go to trial, so there is little guidance.
I listened to your earlier opinion of the two songs and found it puzzlingly Definitely according to the law, these songs are different and this is a good ruling. Chord progressions are not subject to copyright, just like arranging standard shapes are not subject to copyright either. Thank you for going into this more deeply to explain the actual music theory.
AI will never take over music. Copyright office has already ruled that AI created works are in the public domain because an author must be a human. All the next lawsuits will be people proving they didn't use AI.
He should get legal costs here.
Very well thought out
BS!
A.I. has already taken over music, movies and Art.
Nah, itâll be proving that a human _directed or guided_ the AI and that makes it human. And that seems reasonable.
Counselor, can you please clarify - does this case create a precedent? Or will the next million song copyright infringement lawsuits have to start from scratch, without reference to this case as authoritative?
Youâre doing great Rick. Glad to see your business growing đ
I don't have any sort of knowledge of music and this is probably one of the reasons I appreciate your videos. I feel I always learn someyhing new.
Thank you for extending the Beato bundle again!!! I will have the 100 by next month. I am praying that you continue to do this for 2 more months people like me who can only save about 10 bucks a month lol!!! I thank you very much!!! PBWYA TDJ
Thank you Rick for clearing it up on who brought the lawsuit. It is important to have all the facts. I appologize, i didnt have all the facts i should have had before my post last week.
I used to whistle what I thought was an original melody when I was little.
Years later I realized it was Fanfare for the Common Man.
Somehow it got stuck in my head, maybe from ELPs version that used to play when a football game went to commercial.
Wasn't my song tho.
You are such a great professional and person offering opportunities for people in all art areas †I really appreciate this
04:20 "...they have a completely different melody and completely different lyrics!" EXACTLY! I wrote a comment on this subject on a Beato youtube video a week or so ago and explained that I met Hal David (renown lyricist for those of you who may be unfamiliar) as the result of writing a winning lyric for The American Song Festival many years ago. Hal explained to me at that time that a "songwriter writes the melody and lyric or the lyric or the melody". The songwriter MAY orchestrate or arrange the song but it's all about the MELODY and the LYRIC when you're writing songs. That's what you copyright. Nice job explaining, Rick.
Rick youre the wise middle aged man we all need. I bought your book and ear training and its really helped. I would have never learned about these things without you. You have done alot of videos on jazz but can you do a video of the elements of r&b?
It would be interesting for him to use these two songs to break down the common elements of a Motown smooth soul feel
@@shayjohnson5830 lol I was being nice
â@trteeerryfse-wy2ww he acts like he is 45, so that counts.
@@davewielhouwer11 He's more open to good new music than a lot of people half his age
@@shayjohnson5830 Huh? If you eat right, see a doc regularly, and avoid malls and schools in Texas you can easily get to 90 years old. Rick's _starting_ the last _third_ of life.
Excellent Question, Rick: "How do I know what I don't know?" Listening to others, especially outside of your comfort zone., whether it be a different genre or culture.
Don't be ridiculous đ
Ears and the ability to listen well are a musician's greatest asset.
Best thing that happened to me as a song writer and guitarist was playing with a player that was much better then myself. He showed me so many things u can do to make a very simple song sound interesting and many other things. I wish I started playing with better players from day one.
Love the videos Rick!
Pop songs use the same progressions because they sound really good. And songs that sound good sell lots of records.
It may be that the main reason for using them is that they sound particularly good. But more likely it's a matter of familiarity, and simplicity.
@@smallworldbigworld-yi3xw No, it's for the way they sound, they create a mood when played in certain ways, music producers are all over this.... It's formulaic...
That's why it's called 'pop' music.
False. Songs that make money are by definition bad.
@@LesterBrunt Explain?
I tell my theory students that the chords in a major key are like the basic ingredients to any baker's recipe: Flour, eggs, milk, butter, baking powder, sugar, etc. So this is like a baker suing another baker for using the same ingredients
Lol thinking the same thing but not specific to bakingâŠ.just cooking in generalâŠ.
Good video, I started on drums and picked up guitar in high school and learned by ear as well and then learned tab. I had a Beatles tab book and learned so many chord progressions in there and odd chords you can do on guitar. I've always tried to write songs in odd or variant chords to get that extra bit of weirdness in my songs. I just released a self produced album on streaming "Black Heart Sweet" and it has the best songs I've ever written and all the songs are different from each other. Fans tell me no one is writing and recording like this anymore. Hopefully the next generations will pick up playing and writing. Your channel is helping I'm sure. I love watching your top ten/twenty videos with my kids.
Hey Rick, Great content as always. I am curious as to what device/app you are using for the whiteboard in this video? What a great idea. :)
I know a lot of things are written on guitar, but bass lines can be the foundation of a song, such was the case many times. Can you do a song writing video about bass?
đ€
Queen song: Another one bites the dust is good example bass song.
Meghan Trainor seems to know a lot of stuff about bass
@@SheetFiber đ€ź
I would like to order your book, but I am blind. Iâm trying to figure out if I would be able to use it. I have screen, reader, technology, and things like this on my computer.
Would love to hear your view on Men at Workâs loss for their flute interlude in Land DownUnder. They copied a small amount of a crap song and made it better reharmonizing it. Iâm totally confused how they lost
yes I'd love a deep dive on that one as well. so sad about Greg Ham!
That one pisses me off. It was inspired by a song taught to children as a nursery rhyme. He doesnt use the same some. Its different notes and a different rythm.
And again it was a greedy corperation that sued after buying the somg the the estate of the deseaced artist
Video games went through a similar conundrum a few years ago with Fortnite and its dances; the result was that while you can copyright a full choreography (maybe like Riverdance, the entire Thriller video, etc) you can't copyright dance moves like The Robot, Moonwalk, and so on.
A powerful statement as to why you must buy the Beato Book. Might even save on lawyer fees later on.
Everytime I get a chord progression like this I use/put in some passing chords and or suspensions to avoid this very issue!
Same here!
And of course that also makes it sound better. The advantages of knowing some very elementary counterpoint!
Excellent video a great ad for your book đ
Honestly, it sounds more like Van Morrison's "Crazy Love" from 1970 than it does "Let's Get it On". Even the melody is similar.
Ed said that was his inspiration.
Great theory lesson @rick
Love your channel Doug!
Yo Doug! đđ
The one that upsets me the most is The Rolling Stone's manager winning the case over Verve and took the money for 20yrs on sample infringement, rubbish, they sampled it sure and argreed on the 50/50 but it blew up and they took the lot.
pop music. It's purely about the money and not always the "make money with your music" kind of money.
UPADTE: a couple of years ago, TRS reverted the copyright of the song back to The Verve. Willingly I might add.
@@MentalS6k UPDATE: that's what it says and the only reason it was willingly is because he died and it was his sons decision.
I always say that thereâs only a certain amount of chord progressions and especially if youâre in pop music. Only certain combinations work. So youâre gonna get people relating each other. If youâre creative enough you can make a different song though. Purple Rain and Tori Amosâ Hey Jupiter have exactly the same chord progression. I think she even admits it. But the rhythm, lyrical spacing, and overlapping melodies make it into a totally different song.
And if Ed and his team were better musicians, they would have changed that section..there's no way they didn't recognise it as overtly Marvin Gaye in affect
Love your videos. Do you have a book, and is anything from this video by any chance in the book?
Just to pick one out of thin air: Hard Luck Woman by Kiss, written by Paul Stanley and was to be recorded by Rod Stewart. HLW sounds a good deal along the lines of, released in â71-â72, Maggie May and You Wear It Well.
Uncannily so but i thought it was actually a Rod song ripped off by Kiss previously ? How wrong you can be ? What a can of worms thiis could open if lawfare ever got fully deployed at some future point ?
Your videos are always so insightful.
According to Wiki The Beach Boys' Surfin USA was originally credited to Brian Wilson, then to Chuck Berry, then to Berry/Wilson. Even though the song has always been owned by Arc Music, Chuck Berry's publisher.
Love it! Although I fell asleep watching your video B)
Funny... I've always loved music and i played flute in my junior and high-school bands. The problem was i could never remember the theory ...failed it every year. It would frustrate my band teacher because i could play my parts perfectly. I memorized where to come in and i sounded out all the notes. Id practice for hrs. Loved it but i just couldn't read the actual scores. He told me i had perfect pitch and i never even under what he was telling me. Now in my late 50's i can still pick up my flute and sound out a song i like. I can hear if something is off and show you how it should sound but i cant tell you what the notes being song are or what notes they should be i just go by what i hear. The sound.
I think we must be twins as I have perfect pitch too and am still teaching flute at 64 .
Legit question: Why do folks pronounce it âFLOUT-IST?â Is that really proper or is it âflut-ist?â
@@mikegillettify -Iâm the UK we refer to it as being a â Flaw-tistâ not a flauw-tist or a Floot-ist - we are and always will be , Flaw-tists. Itâs from the German - the design of the modern flute with keys was created by Bohm and is referred to as the Bohm system . Itâs been developed over the years and we now have a regulated scale called The Cooper Scale where A = 440 mgz . This meant that flutes were standardised ( finally) and could all play in tune with one another which wasnât possible until the Cooper Scale was agreed upon .
Thatâs very simplistic btw - flutes are extremely complex things , the positioning of the holes , the length of the head joint , the embouchure hole we blow across , it all had to be worked out with complex maths and physics and even chemistry because the materials used in flute making resonate at differing frequencies . A solid silver flute has a brighter sound than a solid gold one .
From a proud Flaw-tist !
Based on your last video I did not think he was going to win. I was surprised that he did.
I thought Rick was being a bit cynical, as how most other cases that have even less in common with other songs end up paying something, he was guessing that this was also going to result in a loss too. As he explained that it shouldn't, but likely would.
He was focusing on a narrow area, the chords. Blurred Lines case is a bad ruling that suggested chord progressions were subject to copyright. I gave this case a 50% chance for Sheeran. His melody was different though, so that helped.
What's sad for Sheeran is that despite winning these allegations tarnish his reputation.
His future mashups should be older songs with even older songs. Marvin Gaye and Mozart....
LOL that was just his opinion!
Slippery legal team. Maybe?
I don't think he should have won.
On the premise that his music is an essential copy, most of the songs he does are. They're not covers or remixes but rip offs.
i wasn't sure why in that video he felt the need to show that the melodies could mesh well together at a certain point, there are a lot of songs where you could splice the melodies together like that. and since Ed's melody was so diametrically different, it was like, what's the point. i think many were influenced by that demo even though it was not even a valid commentary on this case.
Back when I was in my early teens, with no musical background. I self taught how to play the piano, had a friend who was good at guitar, he taught me the basic easy guitar chors, since I self taught piano, jumping on guitar was an easy transition. Then somehow, I self taught my self to play by ear, my tape cassette tape had a great workout, play, rewind, etc.. then I would get what I thought were the chords. This was pre internet times where you couldn't go on the net to get chords for free. I dont play much now but those were the best times of my teen life at school.
Does anyone know if this info is in the Beato Book by any chance?
I agree. A song is a song , it has its own soul, spirit, harmony and melodiies, even if chords and progressions are the same as other songs.
Yep... a billion songs are G C D, maybe with an Am in there.
@@robertcooney1938 yet only a few dozen work. And that's the point. Chord progressions are just a foundation on which the house is built. But you wouldn't call just a foundation - a house.
@@wrmusic8736 totally agree. Vocals, harmonies, a nice bass line, a good groove that locks in with the drums. Some lead guitar and piano. If you change all those things up, it's unique and if it's unique. A tambourine can always make the difference. Iggy Pop used jingle bells on his biggest hits.
The main takeaway from this video is if Ed would have bought and read the Beato Book he would never had ended up in court. I think Iâll send a copy to The Lathums.
And it's also difficult to somehow, someway NOT inadvertently take fragments of melodies from existing songs. Two examples off the top of my head : Bebe Rexah's "Me Myself and I" uses melody fragments from Scatman John's "Scatman" song and One Republic's "Apologize" uses melody fragments from Celine Dion's "Titanic" soundtrack hit "My Heart Will Go On".
I love Adele's "Easy On Me" [and Ricks analysis of that production], every time I listen to it, though, I hear the preeminent "Stay With Me Baby". it's a major part of the allure, for me. It's [like] the same thing!
The Music Professor has just done a little look at Handel's Zadok The Priest (in D / Db) which for the first couple and some other bars uses a motif from Bach Prelude in C , (identical I think if shifted up a key).
Your whiteboard lectures were the first time any music theory made sense to me!
Regarding AI, yesterday I decided to try to play with Chat GPT and song writing. It actually did an okay job (1/4) songs were okay. All followed a very traditional song structure. Where it did better is if you fed it a few lines. Where it was good is when I fed in all the lyrics to a song I wrote and asked for it to improve the song. While I did not love all the suggestions it would be useful if you were stuck on a verse or two.
I did the same, and the results were extremely trite. Might give a basis to expand on, but little else.
There are a lot of songs that sound similar but are vastly different. How many times have you started listening to a song and when the vocals come in it was a different song than what you thought.?? Maybe Iâm getting old or maybe because Iâm a drummer and listen to the beat more than specific notes . The good part is it makes it easier to string a few songs together when we are playing in a club.
When the trial was underway, you posted an analysis of the two songs and explained exactly what was copied and what was not. Your presentation was spot on. I was not the least bit surprised that Ed won his case. If his lawyers had been knowledgeable, ethical and competent, they would have advised him that he can NOT win this case in a jury trial. Makes me wonder if they knew this and took it to trial just for the money, knowing they would lose.
i can't count how many songs i rejected to continue to make because i felt they sounded too familiar. in hindsight it was stupid to do so because you can't assume to create something that never have been done before. there is so much music out there. no matter how you start something it might have been the starting point to some other song out there too. thats normal. its the same with movies or books... its hard to create something without having similarities to hundreds of other works. sometimes inspired, sometimes you unknowingly have the same ideas.
The problem with this particular suit, is that it could've gone either way due to the jury.
It was a Circus Not a suit.
Ed even brang his guitar to make it clear.
If Suit really wanna find a true they must check- jury must get access to the Archive records of creation that song. And check when the Music was stolen from Marvins song.
The Judges did nothing to really find a true. That's a shame.
You're making me think of that comedian that did a bit called the "Pachebel Canon Rant", about all the songs with the same chord progression at the classical piece. đ đđ đ
Over the last few weeks my singing/songwriting teacher/partner and I have been playing a game. During the hour we pick 4 random chords, from *any* key and then write using those chords as a basis. It's a great way to get some really interesting and intriguing composition, and avoid the standard progressions.
Something I think a lot of folks forget in the music industry as a whole (and I'm surprised actually you didn't mention early on) there is nothing you can come up with that hasn't already been created by the end of the Renaissance era in music. *Soap box warning* this is what happens when the corporate business of art becomes more important than the individual expressions of artists. Btw, love your videos đ€
Agreed
Maybe for chord progressions.
But creating original melodies isn't rare at all. Same chords can be fingerpicked in tons of different arrangements. Solos are usually pretty unique as well.
I don't believe that everything has been done.
Stay away from other artists works!!!! PERIOD!!!! What if someone cloned YOU???
What if they only cloned your face?!?!?! Would you be ok with that??!??!?? I doubt it!!!!!
I've been a musician (guitarist) for 45 years, I strictly focused on Larry Carlton, and Robben Ford. But even though I worked extremely hard on Carlton's guitar style, working out many of his classic leads,, I almost never play them but instead, I developed my ear and harmonic
sense,,, and people LOVE my guitar work!
They would tell me that they would get chills/goosebumps,, when I play. Which is
EXACTLY how Larry Carlton affected me!!!! My point is,,, music is endless,,, and
the reason why is, because of the endless combinations of tones/notes,, and
where you put the ~rests~ makes for endless song melodies, not to mention,
the endless chords, and keys!!!!
Pop music is NOTHING compared to classical music, or jazz compositions!!!!
That's very narrow minded and Eurocentric. How does Indonesian gamelan music, or Boards of Canada sample-based tracks lose the title of "new" due to Renaissance music?
What we should all learn and take away from this is that itâs all in the beato book.
Thinking Out Loud has a cool walk down part at the end of the later verses.. another thing that differentiates it
I agreed with the verdict in the Blurred Lines/Got to Give it Up lawsuit. I remember the first time I started hearing that song on the radio and it instantly reminded me of the song Got to Give it Up. I was even at a waterpark one time and the speaker system throughout the park was crappy and hard to hear (with all the ambient noise of a water park) and all I could hear was the bass line and I kept thinking "surely they aren't playing Got to Give it up, they just played "Call Me Maybe" on this station" so I went to another location where I realized it was Blurred Lines. Anyways, I also agree with the jury in this lawsuit between Lets Get It On/Thinking Out Loud. I understand the similarities but it was nothing that EVER struck me listening to the song. It wasn't until the lawsuit came along that I even noticed a similarity. The bottom line is that you can't own chord progressions and similar melodic opportunities that present themselves with certain popular/common harmonies. So many songs use similar or identical harmonies. Get over it.
For years, jazz musicians wrote "contrafacts." Essentially, these were melodies that people like Charlie Parker wrote over existing chord changes, such as "the Rhythm Changes," named after George Gershwin's "I Got Rhythm." Nobody got sued. Now, if we want to move it to the present day, I actually saw a video where four different country songs were put into a DAW, and they were the same key, tempo, and had the same chord progression. You could literally switch from track to track with almost no difference, or even have two tracks going at the same time. I'm amazed that Nashville hasn't been buried in these kinds of lawsuits, if people think progressions and "feel" are fair game.
Hey Rick, what i learned from this video combined with your video about âAIâ is that i could do a slightly changed Marvin Gaye song and record it with a âAI-computer-robot-Marvin-Gaye-voiceâ and then i would be a famous musician, songwriter and superstar in 2023? đ
You wouldn't be famous, but you might make a lot of money. Your "AI" would be famous, I guess.
Fun fact...there are 40 Taylor Swift songs that use just two chord progressions.
Which is EXACTLY why Taylor Swift sells billions of everything having to do with herself and meanwhile some of her fans hear about artists outside of HER sphere of influence and relevance and go, Miles WHO? Monk WHO? Occasionally even, The WHAT-alls? Look, Iâm not a musical snob (there are some hits of the last 25 years or so I like and appreciate) but I think if you donât at least do some musical exploration, you wonât have the overall enjoyment of music you might. (And itâs my personal opinion, right or wrong, that certain people are successful in the music industry/business because to them and their âhandlersâ itâs really more a cold-hearted bottom-line moneymaker than it really is an art form that happens to sell quite well.
A men brother
She should sue herself.
@@jasonnstegall Because people
still equate commercial success with good music. They are completely brainwashed, the idea to listen to non popular music is frightening to them.
Fair play to her
That Painting/Painter ROCKS!!!
I put a humbucker in a Tele . Added another three way switch to split it or run any combo of pickups. Put in a tailpiece with individual string saddles.
Fantastic on songwriting and melody and riff writing - perfect share on writing and creating originality. I don't believe its all been written already - not my view. Excellent advice on the informed musical humanity that will always lead the AI. You are great Rick Beato!
I remember George Harrison losing with My Sweet Lord.đłđ°đŒ
Harrison lost because My Sweet Lord was literally the same music as He's So Fine, it just had different lyrics.
@@wabbit1699...exactly. The 2 songs were nearly carbon copies of one another...just different lyrics and instruments used.
Always a pleasure to see this version of a music master Al Pacino. Very difficult or impossible to copy you with AI. đ
Ther's always like, a Gazillion comments on Ricks channel. So, although my lil comment will probably never cross his eyes, but G to D is a perfect 5th. going from D to G would be a Perfect Fourth. Yer still THE Man for all things music. Yer humble subscriber...
Oh man, if people could copyright a chord progression... I don't even like to think of the consequences imagine the great songs we wouldn't have. It's weird to think about what music would be now. Just a quick example, imagine if Nirvana had never written Teen Spirit.
They did accept ripping Killing Joke off with another song. But in a respectful rip off way??
Whether you like his music or not, everyone should be happy that Ed won.
Maybe you should listen to the music and not the lawyers. Even my neighbors seven year old kid said "That's Letâs Get it On" when he heard Thinking Out Loud.
@@fuglbird Just because it's similar doesn't mean it's plagiarised
@@fuglbird perhaps your neighbourâs seven year old is tone deaf? You would understand how sensible this verdict is if you listen to â4 Chordsâ by Axis of Awesome. Chord sequences and arrangements canât be copyrighted or weâll be embroiled in endless legal cases and musicians will lose out.
And all of us who love music.
what is he using to put up the live whiteboard tablet???
You have the studio of Dreams man . Good for you :)