...and other mini painting myths
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2023
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I am painting miniatures for warhammer 40k, age of sigmar, marvel crisis protocol, D&D and much more! Whether it is superhero miniatures, heroic characters or space marines, I will paint them! If you are looking for some sweet miniature painting tutorials or warhammer hobby content in general, this is the right channel for you! - Jak na to + styl
Duncan Rhodes: "...And I took that personally"
Zumikito knows what’s he doing in order to get people to watch his videos. Rather than relying on talent and being a good content provider he’d rather Call out a well known figure painter and there techniques The cheep tabloids do it all the time. Shame he felt the needed to take this route 😢
Tbf he is right, it does depend on the colour and how thin your going. White can take me 5/6 layers and flesh with highlights, shades etc is close to 20/25 layers if I count blending. 😂
Hi Duke it’s not so much what he says in the video it’s the screenshot (2 thin coats is wrong).
Like I said if he feels he needs to have a dig at fellow painters to make content or get people to watch his videos that’s a real shame. I know of a few CZcamsrs who help each other by announcing each other’s channels and even sending them products to make videos of. Something this guy should think about
Rhodes is and has always been overrated. And is still a gw shill
@@ericdaglish490keep crying
I like my food the way I am...always salty.
9:52
The only technique from that list that I'm familiar with is "dry stroking" but I have a feeling we're not talking about the same thing.
Or as Archer would say "just the tip " RE.tiny VS bigger ( brushes)
Wait before I watch, did I click on the wrong Zumikito video???
Watching Duncan’s videos on his website, I kinda like how “2 thin coats” has just became a sort of meme for him. In his actual videos he’ll explain how long each step will take and how many coats will be necessary, particularly in regards to painting dark over light colors, actually talking about the properties of the paint as he’s applying it.
But, I guess the catch phrase was just so iconic that it’s taken a life of its own.
Maybe that's why his paints are called "two thin coats." So that even when he uses many or just a single layer of paint, they will always be using "two thin coats" XD
😄@@leethax100
Inquisitor 1 : He has committed Heresy
Inquisitor 2 : Has he cast doubt on the word of the Emperor?
Inquisitor 1: Worse, he has cast doubt on the word of Duncan!
what a dork
@@sharkenjoyer says the guy watching a video about painting miniatures in the first place.
@@ThePigeon5734 Ok knight in shining armor, go protect someone else
@@ThePigeon5734 yo what did they say?
@@sharkenjoyer Leave the guy alone, it was a pretty good joke.
That thing about two thin coats is honestly great to hear. I feel pretty validated in my "no idea how to thin paints well so just thin them a tiny bit then spread it around a lot" approach. Thanks Zumikito, a lot of self-doubts have been cast-off.
There's a difference between a professional and highly detailed paint job to a way for beginners to started.
Duncan has always been about entry level to not overwhelm them on the intimidating hobby.
First of all, he had to follow GWs rules. And since GW doesn't produce some very vital tools for painting, he was forbidden tonuse them.
I always remember when I was young, people at school would often proliferate the myth that top painters use a brush with just one hair for tiny details. In my experience when a brush's bristles fall out to the point that there's barely any left the paint just forms a bead about halfway up the bristles and no paint moves to the tip, so the idea that having a brush with a single hair would be anything other than shit seems pretty unlikely to me.
The famous "one hair brush" that only people that never painted in their life recommend me
@@ssenrak8117 if anyone ever provides me with evidence of a single hair brush that can work the way the myth implies I'll be super impressed.
I had a modified brush with a baby hair attached for painting eyes (now use a sharp pin) but otherwise the closest is a rigger brush.
I'll be real with you, painting that model looks like an absolute nightmare.
Whenever I see an STL pop up with 27 ''belts'' looping all over everything I close the tab, run away from the screen and burn the house down for good measure.
A LOT of digital sculptors try to set themselves apart from others as having the most detailed sculpts. All kinds of crazy belts, straps, textures, pointy bits, antlers, claws, scaly plate armor...
No thanks bruh. I don't need the headache of painting all that, and being worried that dropping it will destroy my hundreds of hours of work for a toy soldier I push around on a table while making funny noises. Not every model needs to be a shelf queen.
Duncan : "I've never wanted this. I've never wanted to unleash my 2 thin coats"
I think there's a persistent myth that there is a magical technique out there, that will turn a beginner painter into a master. There isn't. Skill and time still make the greatest difference. A skilled painter will still do something spectacular with a limited toolkit, and given enough time, a less skilled painter will become more skilled, and start to paint better.
I think a lot of people try and compare their painted miniatures to something like any of the ‘famous’ CZcams painters and feel discouraged with themselves, so they try out a million and one painting methods to try and find the ‘fix,’ instead of just enjoying what they’re doing.
Honestly, modern contrasts and washes can turn any miniature into something that’s acceptable for 99% of Wargamers out there without any real technical skill. I have *zero* artistic ability, but I still think my miniatures look great for my skill level.
I love how everyone takes shots at army painter but after watching a lot of your vids, I got better results with my army painter paints. The best advice on paints I give is to get some practice minis and learn how the paints work. then you can do anything really
Army Painter paints are the only ones I use, and I love them. I wish they had more rattle cans to cover more colors, but I'm extremely satisfied with them otherwise.
@endersblade some of my best and worst paints are from army painter. I don't know if it's bad batches, storage, or shipping times in hot containers. They would get less hate if they'd sort out the lack of consistency. I avoid them because it feels like a gamble what I'm getting. But the ones I still have are terrific
Also Duncan: so you have chosen death
"Finish is a relevant paint quality."
I varnish everything, so I can mix whatever paint ranges I want.
Always worth a watch, buddy, love your work!
Dude just declared war on Duncan Rhodes
Christ, no, he is such a nice guy, don't spread misinfo now 💀😬
It's too late to back down Zumi, Begun the brush war has
@@ZumikitoI’m just joking of course 😂
Like others have said, "two thin coats" was originally meant to drill a simple concept into beginners: it's better to apply more than one thin smooth coat of paint, than try to cover on the first pass with thick goopy paint." That is all. At the time it was actually very needed advice! One of the primary stumbling blocks for beginners is simply not understanding how paint works. It's natural to assume to slap them paint on an object and walk away, like coloring in the line with a crayon.
I'm a complete noob to the hobby and my painting sucks at the moment. I keep getting that look (e.g. on space marine shoulder guards) that looks too streaky. It's like the brush strokes have remained when it drys. It's really frustrating.
Two Thin Coats method was EXCELLENT for me when I was a beginner painter. Following Duncan’s videos, it really was one of the best techniques to get me familiar with working with miniature paint… 7 years later and I usually dip out of the pot with a wet brush… I’ve got my style down for a proper consistency, so no pallet is required. . Improving your skill is the most important and learning new methods to achieve that 💜
Myth: NMM looks good.
It's a 2-D painting style that will inherently look good in a photograph but looks weird as hell on a 3D figure.
Every time you shade a mini, you are using a 2d technique. NMM is just extreme shading
Army Painter is my go to, because it's accessibly priced, widely available, and fits my painting needs. I'm a normie painter - I make pretty good looking minis that will never, ever win a paint contest. =D And that's fine!
I can understand why a pro painter would want something better, in the same way that a professional race car driver would want something that drives faster than a Honda Accord. But for the masses... an Accord is comfortable, affordable, and perfect.
I'd say for a total beginner, it's even more important to get a good quality paint. An experienced one can work around the weaker properties of the paint or make it work in specific areas suiting it.
While a beginner has no idea how to solve the problem. It's already hard enough to paint, we shouldn't make it more difficult with tricky paints.
And I mean difficult as in getting the results we imagine and/or see on box arts or from professionals.
Army Painter paints *are* good quality. I have no issues mixing them, coverage is solid, and the colors are fine. The flow properties of their speedpaints are excellent.
Perhaps we don't actually disagree. What do you consider a "good quality paint"?@@doctorgorgomel
Myth #1 - That I am a good painter.
Myth #2 - That I know what I'm doing.
"Assemble first, base last" is one that I've run into. Sometimes you'll get better results painting things in pieces and assembling later, maybe even basing first. Not always, of course, but that's the thing; each project has different needs.
2 thin coats is valid because of the fact that it is a widely repeatable metric for "put a smooth layer down" does it work for every paint? no. does it work for most? yes. do you just need to use a little bit of brain power to figure out which ones do and dont? yes.
I see no Heresy. Proper respect was given to the Church of Duncan while showing your personal view on the Faith of the the Brush
Great video as always, Zumikito!
I actually really dislike the trend of extreme contrast and highlights on everything. Not everything needs a bright edge highlight. I think it looks weird and unnatural a lot of the time, and mostly prefer just subtle highlights where it makes sense.
I guess in these enlightened times, it's safe to come out of the closet....
Hello, my name is Phil and I'm a one coat painter.
My favorite myth is "don't use metallics in your wet pallet so you don't contaminate other paints".
Always used it. Flakes never passed through paper. Never contaminated other paints, even when I washed the brush in the same water cup.
I hear you and if you watch Vince venturella, Sam Lenz to name a couple I follow,they put metallic paint on their wet palettes and I also like you have never had any issues, I think many who say that have never done it so will never know.
Like a lot of mini painting “rules” this own also depends. I wouldn’t be putting Vallejo Metal Colour (that specific range) on a wet palette, that stuff hates water with a passion.
@@vajwjdjsnfjjddhsnanwut? What do you think the other 30% of 70% rubbing alcohol is? Water and alcohol mix fine. VMC is water based acrylic with alcohol mixed in as a surfactant. The reason metallics "hate" water is because it thins down the medium that the pigment is suspended in. And, frankly, I've used metallics from a wet pallette. It changes the behavior as it takes on water and evaporates alcohol, but it's still usable, especially if it's fresh.
This mini has an unreal amount of contrast 🤣
i've never used 2 thin coats. it's also why i do a lot of dry brushing
Been doing this the whole time. Straight out of the citadel pot, work the paint. no need for a palette anymore. Results are battle ready and decent.
The "two thin coats" stuff grinds my gears. So does slap chop though...
Great vid as always!
I keep telling my girl that it isnt the length of the brush that matters, it isnt even the diameter of the shaft. Its all about a nice quality tip. 😎👌
I actually enjoy painting with acrylics, and use just about any acrylics I run into. It doesn’t even dry consistently and smoothly and when painting things like power armor or a dreadnought it actually gives it a really nice worn look to the metal. If applied in many very thing coats on smoother surfaces it turns out smooth and nobody would even notice.
So glad I found your channel mate, your style is similar to mine and it has been the perfect video to start moving on from being a beginner after getting some minis done I'm happy with
I would love to see you crank out more content just painting cool minis and talking through your techniques. I could watch for hours!
The shot at Army Painter is just *chef's kiss* pure poetry
Awesome !!
Also, metallics play by their own rules. Sometimes it's just better to forget about thinning metallics altogether. Some explicitly tell you NOT to thin them down, but for those that don't, don't thin the paint. Instead, just put the paint on your palate and wipe away the excess, until you've got enough to paint on your surface.
Back in the day when almost everything was metal, I actually quite often used inks on bare metal to paint things like armored knights or robots.
Lol thanks for the laugh of the day, totally hilarious...albeit true. Keep the content and entertainment coming please.
I enjoyed this. So, subbed.👍👍
I mean you don't really "need" to prime polystyrene minis but I always do anyway. If your painting metal or resin models you will literally have to or it will just rub off.
"two thin coats" isn't literal, it's just good advice to stop new painters from painting straight out of the bottle and ruining their minis, I frequently use paint far thicker than that but I know what I'm doing.
I noticed plastic primer sticks well (melts into plastic, basically) but then paint doesn't stick to primer any better than it would to naked plastic. Paint chips off just as easily but reveals primer underneath instead of plastic lol.
I have a bunch of differently primed and unprimed models and I haven't noticed much difference in how well paint holds (it rather depends on miniature material). My metal orks are the most problematic and priming them with tamiya spray didn't help in the slightest.
I've also seen old GW painting guides where regular paint was used to "prime" models (what we now call basecoating).
I call the whole priming thing a scam
I like how you question the norm and this shows that you have experience, knowledge and experimented with different techniques. Painters who follow the norm because it is the "best practice" but never tried a different approach will never understand why it became a practice. Technically two thin coats is introduced for beginners so they can easily correct any mistakes but at the end of the day, if you understand the different results and techniques, you don't need to follow it as bible truth.
Keep on making these great vids!
2 thin coats was made by games workshop as an excuse for their paint's shitty coverage. You're way better off just adding a bit of flow aid to games workshop paints than applying them twice
i always just brushed on a first layer of base coat . that was my priming . never used any actual primer and never had problems
that hydrophobic joke just got you a like and subscribe. I love it
Never used a primer in my life and used the method here forever and it always worked for me.
I would 100% count using black or white paint as your base coat as priming.
a myth that i just learned about "Guide hairs" i had never heard of them until Trovarion's recent video
Duncan Rhodes: “…. Look what they have to do to mimic a fraction of my power.”
Well about contrast, in your example your have a high contrast NMM and a low contrast fabric... so there is a high contrast difference between the helmet and the fabric, so it IS high contrast globally :)
As someone that's only ever used Army Painter I feel like I've really been missing out
I'd say there's one exception to the "paint brand doesn't matter" myth (Army Painter paints are still bad for anything more than basic tabletop-level painting IMO, fight me), which I think deserves its own mention:
_"White paint is white paint, the brand doesn't matter."_
Whites are the one time where it absolutely DOES matter, at least if you care at all about the quality of your paint jobs. Most white (and to a degree, offwhite) miniature paints, even from many otherwise reliable brands (Vallejo Model Color and Scale 75 come to mind, GW/Citadel is probably the worst culprit though), run the risk of leaving visible chalkiness and texturing that will bring down the quality of any paint job, if you use them for anything but drybrushing. AK 3rd Generation White (my favourite), Pro-Acryl Bold Titanium White, Kimera "The White", and high-quality artists' titanium whites seem to be the ones people settle on as safe options.
Omg dude, you absolutely setup a 'just the tip' pun and let it sail by. It was like the double fake out
“I was there… I was there, the day Zumiko spoke out against The Duncsteror.”
- Squigismund
Somewhat building on the brush topic but also expanding it a little:
You do not need expensive brushes or other equipment. Look outside of the mini painting hobby space for similar products and you will find more affordable options with same or even better quality.
Duncan's GW-era videos were mostly aimed at people who wanted to paint their minis and get them ready for tabletop with minimal work but decent enough results. In other words, either total newbies who never held a brush before or people who are more gamers than hobbyists. The catchphrase sure did become a mantra down the way but it's kinda effective in the way that school hammers down mnemonics in your head to memorize things. You barely see any detail-clogging, figure-burying, bulge-forming piles of slapped-on paintjobs from even the greenest of starters because every forum and platform hammers the mantra in. Sure, you will later abandon that in your career as a painter but goddamn did it help my first few figures A LOT.
"Do you want your food to be always just salty?". Yes, when IT"S MY NUTS.
I think that the point about high contrast is really mostly a question concerning a painter's own personal preference, some people like their minis to have it and some don't
I came from a classical painting and scale model painting background, and learned all of that before youtube, so we didn't have many buzzwords.. but my favorite style for minis has got to be the 'not quite dry brush stippling' method. Sort of what Artist Opus shows off a lot, only I mix normal brush strokes in and often use a normal taklon brush for it.
But the biggest thing is to learn all these secret techniques, not to duplicate them, but to learn little tips on how to use a brush, paint, or mediums. Like it taught me if I add a little stippling motion and remove most of the paint from my brush while keeping it still moist (often with flow improver/paint retarder), I can provide nice soft, interestingly textured blends to my normal brush-strokes as needed. Then I can use the edge of the brush (like from edge highlighting) to capture sharper edges as I go, and use a more soft dry-brush for larger areas of uniform color that I want subtle gradients.
None of these are purely any technique with a name, but they're examining what a technique gives you and folding the aspects of it into your normal work, where needed. And seriously kids, try a flow improver and paint retarders instead of water to thin the paint. It simply works better in every way, it's not expensive, and it's even easier than using water. I don't mean avoid water, but just that you already have water from rinsing the brush off. Using flow improvers and retarders add qualities to the paint rather than water, which takes away from the paint, making it adhere worse, look worse, cover worse, and everything else.
I painted a bunch of minies without using primer, hell I never used a primer in my life, and they turned out great! I just pushed some vallejo game colour on my palette, made my brusha lil wet, scooped up paint and went to town. Im steadily paining my board games and they look good enough! My friends say they look cool while we play so I choose to belive em. I just learned not to use wash type paints as the first colour.
At the end of the day all the "prime it, put on 5 different layers, glaze shade, edge highlint" seem a little... unnecesary for models that are not too big/too detailed.
I have the same approach for painting as I did for drawing when I started. I have an idea and I will keep trying to recreate it until my fingers fall off. I find that the best way to develop my own style.
Re: Primer - it also depends on the material, metal will pretty consistently need primer, plastic & resin will depend on the exact variety of plastic & resin.
Although also worth noting - primer also increases the LONGEVITY of your paint job... so while you might not need it to stick paint on now, some of us who say took a break when we were young adulting & then started the hobby again 10 years later are happier than others.
Contrast is always EASIER to develop a good paint scheme, since contrast gives a guaranteed 'helping hand' to observers to pick out details. This isn't debatable, it's straight up science on how human eyes work... more people will be able to distinguish between 2 details if each detail is in highly distinct colors. This isn't saying you can't have a good no/low contrast paint scheme, but it WILL actually require more skill to distinguish details that contrasting colors could have helped you with, because you need to actually add back contrast thru some other means than color distinction.
I will also note I'm not sure Zumikito quite knows what the word 'contrast' means here... there is no such thing as a 'low contrast red', or a 'high contrast gold', contrast is the aggregate difference between 2 colors, not a quality of any color itself. And given what the concept is referring to, NO it is literally impossible that painting a mini with lots of contrast makes it 'all look the same'. Because 'looking all the same' is literally the opposite of having contrast.
Not needing to prime your models was surprising! Will you ever do a video only using INK on your models and no acrylics? 🤨 (Love your content by the way 13/10)
That sponsor is sick
I have trouble priming models with a spray can. Since I use cold galvo on steel with welding I find myself way to zealous with a spray can. So thank you for the tip of painting on primer. 😊
Great video and i must say i dont use the two thin coats range or kimera or even speed paints, i use Ak, Vallejo, Army paints, citadel, mix and match to my hearts content, my minis get thin coats more than two and i put metallics on my wet palette with no problem. My motto is " your last mini is just practice for your next mini" , they are yours paint them as you see fit.
I always thought “two thin coats” was a suggestion, not religious doctrine. Great vid!
Vallejo's Mecha range of paints are designed to be used on styrene without a primer.
Funnily enough, on my first five minis I used Abaddon Black as a primer as I thought that's what I was supposed to do! I only found out later when one of the models had paint coming off it. It's really not too bad though.
That first myth: So you just primed it with your brush instead of rattle can/airbrush. :P
@Zumikito Would you be willing to share the colors you used for the Ultramarine at the end? Mainly the blue / blues, but also the other colors. Or is there a dedicated video?
Remember, class: "Just the tip".
One perfect coat~
I understood "do you really want your foot to be always just salty" and was confused.
My best looking minis are ones that wasnt primed + have 1 coat...
Primers are like, THE most misunderstood concept in miniature painting. It's sometimes infuriating how poorly it's misunderstood (and how much paint companies make the issue worse). But you're absolutely right, for plastic models, it's not really necessary. In fact, so much so that paint companies formulate a thicker paint (often by adding urethane for extra strength) and call it a 'primer'. When that's absolutely not a primer. That's just a base coat. Modern plastic really doesn't need a primer. Just to be cleaned, like mentioned.
Primers are for materials that paint doesn't normally stick to very well, like metals, nylons or other high-energy surfaces. They contain solvents that dissolve organic contaminants and etch into the material to provide a layer that normal paints will stick to. All of them are toxic and have solvents and need to be well ventilated. Even metal has tiny pores that it can seep in to if you can dissolve out the oils and other stuff in them. And these paints are very tough, most are impossible to strip off a model (which can be a good thing), leaving you a primed model if you strip it.
Painting myth: airbrush paint needs to be the consistency of milk... It can be any consistency as long as it fits you usecase.
theres definitely a thing with too much contrast all over. theres a couple of amazing painters i follow on instagram, they are super super talented, 1000s of followers, award winners, ill never be able to paint like them. but when i look at their models everything reads as metal. im in awe of the technical skill they have executed the model with, but the metal looks like metal, the skin looks like metal, the horns, the cloth, the rocks, leather, hair, everything reads as a metallic surface because every surface is highlighted from black through to near white.
9:13 so I'm not the only one who cracks open GOLDEN caps and need to glue them together :)
He should donate the hair from his biceps 💪 to locks of love
Primer is also important to reduce chipping. I would always recommend priming with a matte primer. For best results you should also varnish them
I sometimes prime with a brush
That mini, looks abit like the black wing lair paladin armor from wow when I was playing it in early 2000's.
Priming,in my experience,is not for paint to stick on the model but to stay in the model and be stronger against scratch or peel off
it 's just beautìul
Some models you can paint without primer, it just makes it easier if you have it. But regarding primer, brush on primer exists and works just as well as spray primer, which is fine if you're just painting one model or if the weather doesn't allow for spray priming.
for over a decade I used apple barrel and got really good with it
Omg I thought you disappeared, my fave painter in the hobby
I almost don’t thin my paint I use only the moisture of my wet pallet to do so and one code is most times enough for a good result.
"I used one thicck coat but spread it.." oh so a thin coat then.
Says you don't have to prime then proceeds to prime black with a paintbrush...
When I started painting a few years ago, the official GW tutorial videos said you can "prime" by brush, if you don't want to use a can, just by painting Abaddon Black on plastic.
And yeah you definitely can, it just takes like 3 layers and is a huge pain to do.
I find it very hard to use 2 thin coats of White Scar/ Corax White, as it becomes 5 to 7 thin coats. I dilute less with whiter colors
if you can find the word Primer on the chaos black spray PAINT, get your eyes checked. It is paint. A primer was a must when minis were made of metal.
Man just picked a war with Denmark 😂
What is that first model? I love it
Ah yes, using black by brush to give a primer... like old fashioned way. BACK IN MY DAY
I still do.👍
Smelly primer users unite.
Man that stuff was awful
man its good to see you mate, missed your videos, I know you are busy on Twitch but I don't have the time to watch full streams or stuff, if I could make a humble request, please do more videos here :)
No worries, it's my intent to keep CZcams as my primary platform! It just takes longer and there is more work associated with it
@Zumikito can't even being to imagine the work that goes into it mate but your videos are amazing, you are a master at your craft in both painting and editing 🙂 also thank you for replying mate it means a lot 🙂
I love Army Painter products.
Their base paints require a bit of extra knowledge and work before using, but they are fine paints.
Entertaining video. Maybe a video on those mythical techniques as an April fools?