Heartstopper 2x7 Reaction! - "Sorry"
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- Reacting to season 2 episode 7 of Heartstopper! Our favorite boys are back!
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Season 1 Reactions: • Heartstopper
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This season is not sad as much as it is deeper in dealing with life. Like in Elle's painting they all have their own safe space which is each other.
You’re right about Ben’s apology being totally lacking. He didn’t admit anything he did wrong or acknowledge how Charlie was hurt at all. It was all about him and offering up justifications, “I’m a messed up person,” “I needed more time.” He also ambushed Charlie when it was obvious Charlie didn’t want to talk over DMs (stalker behavior, like these kids took a whole train to Elle’s art show and he just followed Charlie there??). Which is classic Ben, forcing Charlie to be around him against his wishes. Hopefully Charlie shutting him down will be a wake-up call, but you’ll be pleased to hear we’re not gonna see Ben on the show again, which I think is a good call. Charlie will have enough to deal with without having Ben around.
About Nick and David, I think it would probably be less hurtful just not having a dad around at all, versus having one who clearly doesn’t give a shit and makes his kids jump through hoops to get his attention.
I think Darcy’s mom is just wearing her hair up lol.
This is my favorite episode of the season. So much growth for each of our boys, standing up to their respective bullies and asserting their own boundaries and being able to articulate their feelings.
The Darcy storyline at the end is so disturbing and sadly not an uncommon experience in the LGBTQIA+ community
Nick’s “Why doesn’t he care” wrecked me. Brought me back to the saddest Fresh Prince episode with his dad 😭
Also completely heartbreaking to finally learn about Darcy’s home life. Always seems like the most joyous people are hiding the worst pain.
Thanks for acknowledging that there may not be a “right person” for Isaac. It’s something that I think a lot of Aro/Ace people hear, but isn’t necessarily true - and that’s ok.
Another great episode. I was so proud of all our bb’s.
The scene at the end where Darcy gets kicked out was actually ad-libbed by the actors, they didn't have a script!
I laughed every time you called Ben a dumb bitch, every time.
The first time I wached this episode I thought the same, it was very convenient that Isaac just found that guy... but then I paid more atention. They are in a HERE AND QUEER exhibition, so it is normal to have all kind of representation of queerness, etc. And of course Isaac would be drawn to that piece of art specifically. He was curious because it resonated with him.
Your reaction to Heartstopper has been super fun and uplifting, you have a warm energy and feel very safe, which isn't always present from straight guys. 🙂
It was a little convenient that another aroace kid was at this exhibition. However, it was an exhibition celebrating queer and trans artists so it wouldn’t be completely out of the blue for Isaac to meet someone like him. I’m pretty sure the author, Alice Oseman, is aroace as well and would want kids to have this kind of representation in her beautiful story.
I feel like it made complete sense, because it was a queer exhibition. They probably purposefully showcased all parts of LGBTQA+.
Yes... But it is convenient all the same! Heartstopper is a little didactic - which is fine. It's written with a younger audience in mind so Alice isn't going to leave Isaac hanging in confusion and isolation - which is what could definitely happen. They want to show some ways forward to readers/viewers. I don't have any issue with that but "in real life" those answers don't often present themselves exactly when we need them.
@@pollyfossil8466 How is it convenient though? Do you not expect asexuality to be represented at a queer art exhibition? The A is LGBTQA+ literally stands for 'Asexual'. Like most shows, things are convenient, but I honestly think this is one of the worst examples of it in Heartstopper.
@@ipurpleu1668 it's literally like a lesson: "what is asexuality?" I have no problem with the fact that the show wants to communicate helpful messages, but I also think it's okay to acknowledge when it's doing that. I really like the show; not everything has to be super realistic, in the sense of reflecting the fact that real life often doesn't make much sense a lot of the time.
Ben’s apology was pretty half-assed. He was still blaming his behavior on his parents and not taking full accountability. The main issue here is that Ben still doesn’t understand what he did to Charlie wasn’t just him being a dick. He was continuously abusive up until him SAing Charlie and that trauma left a huge toll on Charlie’s mental health and self worth. I loved the animation of the rainbow inviting Ben in, and the symbolism of him backing away from it.
I thought that rainbow animation was so well done! Ben backing away and denying his LGBTQ identity. I’m guessing that Ben will always be in the closet.
@@lynnhettrick7588 as much as I don't want that to happen, I think you're right. makes me sad, tbh 😢
@@the_nikster1it would be nice to think that Charlie’s words got through to Ben, but the way he backed away makes me think that won’t happen.
@@lynnhettrick7588 I mean considering that Ben won’t be in the show anymore, you’re probably right. still makes me super sad tho
@@lynnhettrick7588It’s possible, but it’s also possible that eventually he’d come to accept himself. imo it would be highly unrealistic for Ben to instantaneously turn over a new leaf after his behavior throughout this season, but you never know what the future holds.
I feel like next season is gonna be even more emotional lol…. But with lots of lil happy moments in between to keep us smiling!
6:12 I’m pretty sure they’re in what you’d call a thrift shop, so I would think a suit is probably easily bought with the change of 6 people
10:12 comments on other videos have pointed out that Elle’s piece is based on the art she was interested in during their visit to the Louvre, so that’s a nice little reference
20:20 at the very least, while the “convenient person” may be the case, it’s actually more believable than other shows that do this. Being at a queer art exhibit, there’s of course going to be someone there to give Isaac his insight
On Ben’s ‘apology’, you’ve got the right measure of it. Ben was half-assing it in order to either make himself feel better or even still get back on Charlie’s good side, rather than caring about him. For everything that Charlie has been through, to be able to stand up and reject the apology with at the same time still wishing for Ben to become a better person, just shows how strong he is and he will need that strength next season too.
The only sad and pitiable thing about Ben is the struggle with his sexuality. To be offered a chance at being a part of the queer community, invited in to a safe space (queer art exhibition), and then choosing to step away and continue to suffer loneliness is objectively a sad thing. Everything else that Ben did does not deserve sympathy or forgiveness, of course.
Poor Sahar, the random girl 🙃
If this was another show i would agree that it was convenient but considering what the exhibition was representing it was the best possible place for it to happen. It's more intentional and is a starting point of what's to come.
What you said about being specific about what you are apologizing for is valid for secular people and those of other religions. It's good advice. Regarding Christianity, my husband prays every night and when we know people who ask for prayers or good thoughts or whatever he tries to get as specific as they are willing to be so he has a really clear prayer petition. I think again, this can carry over to personal life goals. It's always better to be as specific as you can about your intentions. ❤
Sebastian Croft (Ben's actor) actually insisted with Alice Osman that Ben NOT get a redemption arc even though it meant he only gets two seasons with the show. Ben is gone for good. Which is really a shame because Joe Locke (Charlie) and Sebastian are like, besties from their time on set and really hit it off as friends. The same way that Cormac Hyde-Corrin (Harry) and Kit Connor (Nick) are besties from their time on the set in season 1.
And both are by all accounts really great people in real life, which is just more of a tribute to their phenomenal acting skills.
Bash seems like he’s a really nice guy.
@@ipurpleu1668that also comes with a lot of speculation from people too. Yes, outwardly it does seem like they don’t interact as much anymore but also unless people personally know them, we won’t ever know what their relationship dynamic is like either. Keeping in mind they might have still been close like before during filming, so it may just be pure coincidence that Ben is leaving at the same time their public interaction has changed
I don’t think it has anything to do with the actors. Alice has been saying for years that they don’t think it would be appropriate to incorporate a Ben redemption arc in Charlie’s story because, like Charlie himself said in this episode, he shouldn’t have to forgive Ben or be there for him on his journey.
David does seem to have Daddy issues. His father doesn’t even know where David goes to university.
Heres your sadness soup and you will like it 😂 that one hurt and made me laugh
I feel like I'm one of the few people who were so angry with Ben's 'apology', and it's because it wasn't genuine. In fact, each time I watch a reaction or rewatch the episode it makes me even angrier at Ben. As someone who was in a relationship like that as a teen (I'm now 40- so a long time ago), I remember those BS apologies. I would keep going back and forgiving them because they would 'accept responsibility'. I clocked immediately how Ben's apology mask slipped several times when Charlie was reading him down. Nick was right when he said that Ben never really liked Charlie, he just liked having control over him. His home life doesn't excuse his behavior. One thing I noticed throughout both seasons is just how predatory Ben is. He's always creeping up on Charlie, practically stalking him, as well as verbally, emotionally, and physically abusing him. He even does the mental abuse on both Imogen and Nick throughout the second season- but Charlie is the main release valve for his rage. Yes, part of it is a lot of self-hatred, but I believe, based on the incredible portrayal of Sebastian Croft, that he is also a narcissistic psychopath. My oldest is Charlie's age and he pointed out that if Imogen had confronted Ben alone, or if Nick hadn't been with Charlie at the opening, he likely would have physically attacked them.
I really appreciated your analysis of this episode. There is just SO much in it. I felt like the aroace person magically appearing at just the right time was the only unnatural, forced part of two seasons. Great information, but didn't flow smoothly in the story.
I'm gonna go on a Ben rant here......first, the only way he could be there is if he was IG stalking Charlie and/or his friends and had to take a 40 min train ride to ambush Charlie. Second, he sent many messages to Charlie, all of which were ignored, which a normal person would take as that person doesn't want to talk to you, but he came anyway. Third, I agree with you that the apology wasn't specific and felt so selfish, just like everything he does. If you ignore the sexual assault, which you shouldn't, he was emotionally abusive to Charlie on at least two occasions that we have seen, but you know that wasn't the only time he tore into Charlie's self esteem (he's way worse in that regard in the comics). He's a narcissistic asshole and you'll be happy to know that Ben won't be back in S3, per Alice. He can't blame his homelife. Look at Darcy's mom and her horrible treatment, but Darcy is still a kind, caring, supportive friend.
Last, I love the difference in Nick saying "Charlie is my boyfriend" in S1 and S2. When he said that to his mom, he was so nervous and unsure. By the time he said it to his dad, there was no hesitation and he was proud to say it. That one line of dialogue so clearly shows Nick's growth and confidence in himself and it's beautiful to see.
I'm glad you survived this episode of emotions & feelings. From happy to sad. You made it through. Thanks for sharing your reactions.
Oh man, sadness soup indeed! Love the long talk in the end! I love how moved you were by Tao's mum being so excited for him ☺! I cried at Darcy's situation again while watching the (full length) reaction with you despite seeing this show so many times already. It's just so accurate to how it feels growing up fighting your parents on the daily about who you are. Funnily enough my mom also has very short hair and I won't ever even come out to her (I'm an adult) but she would also just scream at me for what I wanted to wear despite being very much a second wave feminist type person (only ever votes for women etc). Controlling parents come in many forms and I can relate to Darcy so hard in this, which surprised me because I didn't connect to her like this before!
That last scene with Darcy gives me chills every time.
It made perfect sense for Isaac to meet the Aro Ace guy at the LGBTQIA+ Showcase. He was one of the Artists showing his creations there. It is literally an artist showcase for LGBTQIA+ People and Aro Ace people are a part of that community!
I’ve said it before, but thank you for being an ally. your content is all just so inclusive and non judgemental. And we need more of that!
23:55 I don't think Ben could really name the things he did wrong, because I actually think he's a nascent psychopath who thinks of right and wrong only in how it affects him. I think he's learned to pass for human and act accordingly inside the social norms of adolescents, but in this new romantic/sexual arena he is in murky waters-- he doesn't know what's normal and defaults to amoral and id led behavior. It's more than his not treating other people well; he doesn't understand that other people aren't just playthings for him that have feelings of their own that deserve respect.
I think what you were getting at is the dad was a disappointment to his kids. Nick's mom Sara is a great single mom. The dad not being a presence in David's life would definitely have a detrimental effect because David was old enough to feel abandoned by his father where Nick was younger (this is based on information I saw about their ages when the dad left).
I've also just directly seen the effects of kids growing up without their father, and it's really tough
I’m digging the X-men sweater. I want one!!
20:35 I thought it was very convenient too, but they were in a queer art show, so Isaac is bound to run into someone like him there 🤣
Thanks, Derek! 💞 #SleepyWaffles #EurosLyn #Heartstopper
Really enjoyed your comments during and your commentary after. You'd be great hosting an interview show.
isaac running into that other ace person is KINDA convinient on a surface level yes, but keep in mind it is a queer event that showcases art sooo it makes sense that he'd meet a person like him in this event, if it was randomly on the street that would have been very bad but that place was full of the lgbtq mafia so it's cool
The aro/ace artist at the exhibition is actually introduced much earlier in the season - I’m pretty sure he’s the same guy who confirms that parties at the art school are great. A nice introduction, I thought.
It's not completely convenient writing. The show is expressly showcasing the art of queer youth and they would have chosen participants based on diversity of experience.
The scene with Issac at the art show was great, but it should have happened early in the 3rd season. Issac goes through this entire process over the course of basically an episode. I think Issac's story needed, and should have had, the time to breathe. It's one of my only complaints from this entire season.
My hope for Isaac is that now he's learned his closest fit, his journey toward accepting and moving forward (the euphoria of letting go of the expectations) will be the highlight for season 3.
@@chrisprescott9396 it still happened like five minutes after his conversation with James and like Derek said, 'that's convenient.' I thought the same thing while watching. It was the perfect time/place for it to happen, it just felt rushed. He could have discovered 03.01 and spent the next 7 episodes figuring it out and we could have had a second to breathe.
To be fair, it felt like Isaac was struggling with these feelings all season long, looking uncomfortable around couples and uncertain with James, asking Charlie about what his crush on Nick felt like and it not looking like Charlie’s response resonated… I think the kiss with James just confirmed something he had already been suspecting.
@@normaladjacentThat’s how I see it too. From S2E1, we see Isaac trying to figure out how he feels. He studies the other couples.
I’m assuming that S3 will be a lot like Vol. 4, plus more Isaac exploration.
Your face when Isaac lit at the Paris Squad had me in stitches it was so out of character for him that it really hits home how much he's struggling. I adore how much you care for him and want to comfort him. I feel the same. Also, did you spot the Tara and Darcy sillhoutte on the wall at the art show? 👀
Darcy’s mother has her hair pulled back in a bun.
Hi Derek! Love the shirt!
Great reaction, good feelings ❤
E7-E8 made me cry a lot for Darcy and Charlie. Elle looks amazing in E7-E8!
I think I just googled that a coin can be up to 2 pounds. So a handful of change might be a decent amount.
Alice Oseman and Sebastian Croft have both stated that this episode was the end of Ben. Neither of them felt a redemption arc was right for the character so we won’t see him again. I’m guessing we will see a redemption arc for Harry based on the things that happened in the previous episodes this season. I really wish they had kept Ben on the show though for the next season. He would’ve been the perfect character to cover the topic of gay teenage suicide where he tries to take his own life, successful or not, because of parents who wouldn’t accept him. It would’ve been a very powerful message for this show seeing the fallout from that with Ben’s parents and Charlie/Nick/Imogen
There’s already going to be a lot of heavy stuff with Charlie and maybe Darcy too.
I definitely don’t think it’s a necessary storyline. We will cover a lot of similar/the same topics with Charlie. There are a lot of shows that have Ben-like characters with storylines like that, which usually end with a redemption of sorts. It’s better to look at Charlie and give a voice to people who have had their voices stolen from them, like Charlie.
Also, Ben is the OG antagonist for the AO Universe, right from the very beginning with Alice’s first book, Solitaire. It would have felt weird (especially for people who love the books) to give Ben a redemption. And now, the character is set-up for Solitaire (leaving Truham for Sixth Form and his history with Charlie) if they ever want to make a movie or something for it.
Unfortunately, closeted gay teen suicide (attempts) have been severely overdone in media. While it is no doubt something that does happen, Heartstopper doesn’t really need to incorporate one of those storylines just to show the reaction to further trauma.
@@ipurpleu1668 I wasn’t hoping for a redemption for Ben. I was hoping for a a gay teen suicide and show the impact of that. There wouldn’t be a redemption because he would be gone, but there would be after effects. It would have been nice to see that with an Alice Oseman spin. All the other LGBTQIA+ topics she covers, she does in a very different way than other media, in a much more empowering way.
@@ipurpleu1668 I haven’t read Solitaire, so I was unaware that Ben was a character that appears in that. I guess that kind of dashes my hopes for Solitaire to be incorporated into Heartstopper if Sebastian Croft is not returning. I had been waiting for it to come out on Audible in the US and it finally has so I will eventually be listening to it.
If you don't cry at the finale do you even have feelings? Or is my depression just worsening? Lol
Always appreciate your comments, though don’t always agree with all of them. You were kinda wrong about Imogene Technologies (now one of my favorite characters) so maybe “random girl” has some possibilities! Andrew’s a nice addition.
Prom is actually short for promulator.
20:41 Yeah... Alice got sole writing credits for Season 1, but there was a story consultant employed for this season. I don't think Alice would've made that so obvious/clunky had she written the Isaac aro/ace storyline by themselves.
I fully agree Sahar is a pointless character. She’s introduced in the comics just to have a fourth girl in the hotel room in Paris. She’s in a lot of group scenes from that point on in the comics, but she’s never more than a background character.
I mean it's pretty clear she's going to be more than a background character going forward. To me her utilization in S2 is a lot like Isaac in S01. Mostly there in the background and some scenes to establish them and the start of their dynamics with other characters but doesn't really get a storyline exploring them more until the next season.
Bash really is a good guy and Hates his character Ben!!!
This has become just another gay soap based on and filled with trauma, angst and depression. As we didn't have enough of these. Eastenders, Emmerdale, People of The Valley, etc, etc etc. Can we please have a sequel or extension or whatever of RWARB... PLEASE LOL
just a suggestion, if you don’t like Heartstopper, don’t watch it. Millions of us love it and deserve it.
Very weird way of looking at it. Yes the characters are dealing with hard things and big topics, but Heartstopper never relishes in it and it always balances it with queer joy and solidarity. Real life people have issues and baggage and trauma they have to work through, why wouldn't stories also explore that complexity?
Like if you're looking just for rom-coms like RWARB then, you know, go watch and read rom-coms?
You do know that Heartstopper was always about trauma right? Heartstopper is literally a spin-off of Solitaire which introduces Charlie Spring has the main character’s little brother who just came home for a stay at a psychiatric hospital after attempting suicide. Charlie’s story for the beginning was that. Heartstopper was made to explain how Charlie gets there.
This is actually a pretty wild take. Heartstopper is always going to be about queer joy and focus on happiness. Yes, it will feature sad or tense moments and story arcs for characters but the main difference is that this show is going to treat topics gently and always angle toward the positive. Queer people have be treated far worse in terms of drama and angst in other tv shows and that’s why we might have an initial knee-jerk reaction to any issues characters face but Heartstopper is, at the current time, the exception not the rule.
RWRB has trauma and angst as well. To think that these also wouldn’t be extended if we got a sequel (or if it was a series instead) doesn’t make much sense.
@@gem3614 Thank you for your suggestion. Not needed really because I'm not watching it. It took me about 20 minutes to make me rush to the end of the season and confirm my believe that these producers rely on queer masochism to make money. Yes, there are millions who want it and of course deserve it. Enjoy
The reactor missed was the significance of the painting by Caravaggio at the "Louvre" titled "Supper at Emmaus." I think this happened in episode 5 of Series 2.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supper_at_Emmaus_(Caravaggio,_London)
The camera lingered on this painting indicating it was important to the story. Indeed, it's very important to Elle's character. Elle herself was clearly very enamored with this particular painting. It's a brilliant Trompe-l'œil masterpiece. Unsurprisingly, it's full of Christian symbolism. It depicts the moment when the recently resurrected Christ reveals himself as Christ to Cleopas and an unnamed disciple before vanishing. The painting usually resides at the National Gallery in London, and I'm thinking the picture gallery scenes were shot at the National in London and not at the Louvre.
Anyway, Elle's painting, which I guess she submitted to the Lambert School of Art as part of the application process, is a reimagining of the Caravaggio. We see Elle's painting in episode 7 of Series 2. In her painting, Elle has substituted herself for Christ, and her painting is a trans metaphor for her transition from boy to girl. The boy died and was resurrected as a girl. Charlie and Isaac knew Elle before her transition and after. Their eyes were "opened" after a fashion, so they assume the roles of Cleopas and the unnamed disciple. The three people who are part of the queer community are seated at table. Tao takes the place of the standing innkeeper. Tao, the nominally straight friend, isn't part of the queer world per se, but he's part of the safe-space triad formed by all the figures. Truham's art room, aka Charlie's safe-space, substitutes for Caravaggio's inn. (Actually, I think Tao really has to be viewed as just as queer as the rest of them given his relationship with Elle.) The artistic influence on Elle doesn't stop with Caravaggio, though. Elle also incorporated elements of Tao's "landscape" design, episode 8 of Series 1, with the tree etc. into her painting.
It's quite interesting to have this level of symbolism in a tv series. Usually, I only see it in serious films. So, yeah. Anyway, I do get what Elle's saying with her painting, even if I find it a tad OTT.
As far as Harry and Ben go, I take a different tack than most, apparently. Everybody has behaved boorishly, and we've all said and done horrible things at one time or another. If the opportunity presents, why not give someone the room to grow into a decent human being? If their regret is sincere even if non-specific, what's the harm in forgiving them - and meaning it? Also, from the standpoint of Charlie's mental health, it would've been beneficial for him to forgive not only Harry but also Ben. It's a "Star Wars" lesson: Let go of the hate - because that's what it is. Otherwise, the effect is unnecessarily corrosive on your being, and how does that help you? The real problem isn't so much Harry as Ben. Harry is an easy case because he was just being an immature unthinking loutish jerk. Ben, as we know, has real issues, and he was practiced in what he did. He really needed a lifeline! By not affording him one, Charlie left Ben in his damaged state. I think Ben is just as eff-ed up as Charlie, actually. I guess what I'm saying is I regard the final interaction between both Charlie and Harry and Charlie and Ben as unsatisfactory because it didn't really resolve any of their respective issues, especially the issue between Charlie and Ben. I understand why Charlie feels the way he does and did what he did, but I don't agree with how Charlie addressed things.