Do Not Use Rockwool To Soundproof Walls
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2024
- FREE Soundproofing Workshop - www.soundproofyourstudio.com/...
Many people come to me saying they will use Rockwool to soundproof their walls. First, this is not really necessary. Second, if you build a normal wall with Rockwool it will only marginally improve the sound isolation. In this article I will argue why the cheapest insulation that provides adequate climate control for your location is the best choice for your wall.
1) Soundproofing Is All About Systems
When we build a soundproof wall it is soundproof because of the sum of its parts, not a single material. Many people believe that adding Rockwool, which boasts enhanced acoustic properties will help improve the STC rating on their wall. The truth is that is will mostly hurt your wallet without adding any noticeable change in sound isolation.
Below is a diagram of several different wall designs.
Notice that the wall to the far right has the best sound isolation. This is due to the wall construction not the individual parts. To prove this interesting point, the wall the third from the left has an STC of 40. This involves the same 4 layers of drywall, wood studs, and insulation, however by moving the drywall to the two outside walls and leaving an airspace in the middle the STC rating improves by 23 points!
My point is that the insulation is important, but not a huge game changer when it comes to soundproofing. What matters most is having some form of fiberglass insulation in the wall and building it the correct way so that you have a mass spring mass system.
2) Safe N Sound Does Not Have an R Value
So the first thing that we need to do when properly insulating our walls regardless of soundproofing is to get the right R Value for our climate. Below is a chart for the USA for different recommended R Values depending on the region you are building in. Now this would be important for a stand alone structure build in your backyard, roof insulation, or any wall that touches the outside of your home or garage.
For example, my studio needs insulation on all walls and in the ceiling for walls that touch that outside. According to this chart, I could use R38 in my attic and R13 to R15 in my walls. We actually used R30 insulation for my entire studio build, so be sure to confirm with your contractor what is best for your specific build.
The key point is that Safe N Sound is meant for interior wall construction only and does not have a tested R Value. This means is is created for sound control, but not holding in heat and air conditioning.
This is a huge flaw for many builds and is one reason I don't recommend Rockwool Safe N Sound to my soundproofing clients.
3) Using Other Insulation Could Save You Hundreds of Dollars
The truth is that Rockwool is more expensive than most other insulations on the market. Now if you are not building a double wall or a wall using a hat channel system then by all means use Rockwool. It will help some with sound reduction. However, if you are building a true soundproof wall system then the Rockwool is a waste of money. Let's look at the costs comparison.
Rockwool Safe N Sound - $0.95 per sq/ft (Home Depot in 2023)
Owens Corning R13 Kraft Insulation - $0.55 per sq/ft (Home Depot in 2023)
You save $0.40 per square foot which can add up. If you are building a 300 square foot studio with 10 foot ceilings then you would spend:
Rockwool Safe N Sound = $1,045
Owens Corning R13 = $605
That is a savings of $440!
Most people want to save money where they can during a big construction project. This is a place where that money could go towards another purpose. I always recommend spending more money on mass when you can. So putting that savings towards another layer of drywall would be far better spent than on Safe N Sound.
4) Conclusion
Don't get me wrong, Rockwool is great for acoustic panels it just really doesn't help in a soundproof wall system. If you are building a wall in your home and you are not soundproofing that wall then use Safe N Sound. However, if you are building a recording studio or any serious soundproof room I do not recommend wasting money on Safe N Sound insulation.
0:00 - Intro
1:28 - Soundproofing Is About The Whole System
3:31 - Use Correct R Value
5:40 - Rockwool Is Expensive
8:30 - Conclusion
FREE Soundproofing Workshop - www.soundproofyourstudio.com/workshop
FYI - my personal experience. In process of building our house, I went ahead and put in safe n sound between the bathroom and our bedroom.. and only put fibreglass between the den wall and the same bathroom. It may be technically not much of a difference, but the actual experience of it day to day is huge. I can hear someone talking or listening to music in the bathroom from the den.. and nothing at all in the bedroom. Wall thickness and open cavities between walls is extremely similar and the same drywall was used, but the audio experience is very different... there could be many explanations, but the 30% cost difference is well worth it. I do not know of the cost to build in other parts of the world, but here in Canada, the difference in cost is a rounding error on a build.
Great point! What you did makes sense, but you did traditional wall construction. I don’t recommend ROCKWOOL when you are using soundproof wall designs.
Yeah safe and sound worked crazy well for my soundproofing. Lawn mower right next to wall is so muffled. Sounds kind of eary not hearing traffic anymore. Old construction
Rockwool is a great insulator, sound deadener, and fire barrier. It’s like a miracle supermaterial yet very traditional.
I'm in Canada too, NB, and doing a new build. Haven't drywalled yet and was thinking to use Rockwool between bath and bedroom walls and the long wall in my Master has a hall and bedroom behind it. I'm also going to use putty pads on the receptacle boxes too. So you think the Rock Wool is worth it? Thx!
Depends on your cost analysis. But you probably only want to drywall once. And now is the time to do it. All I can say is I wished I did it everywhere between rooms and not just bedroom 😊.
The point you miss here is a very simple one. Mass blocks sound. The more mass you have, less sound will be transmitted through the wall. Rockwool has more mass than fiberglass. Case closed.
Thanks for watching. You are right about mass, but the mass comes from the 5/8 drywall not the insulation. The insulation is meant to damp resonances in the wall.
I've used Safe n sound in a typically 2x4 wall and it is dramatically better than fiberglass. Foam outside walls and safe n sound on the interior wall is not overly expensive but a dramatic improvement. If you have put it in you know the difference.
In a typical wall it is better, but not noticeable in a soundproof wall.
@@soundproofyourstudio I am glad I read the comments on this video. I am getting ready to redo the subfloor on my 2nd level (old home problems) and wanted to reduce noise transfer between floors as well as add a layer of insulation since I have 2 climate zones (minisplit on 2nd level). Everywhere I had looked took me to the rockwool sound, and I know I'd have to double up with a product that has an R value. Sounds like for my needs I'll stick with my original plan.
Rockwool Safe'n'Sound and Comfortbatt are the same material. The Comfortbatt is 3.5 inches thick which fills the entire stud cavity depth and thus provides better thermal insulation. The Safe'n'Sound is not as thick, at only 3 inches, which provides a built-in air gap in your wall and is why it's rated only for sound and not thermal. Fiberglass usually comes in 3.5 inch thickness and would not have an air gap. If you're building only one wall, then Safe'n'Sound with the gap should perform better than fiberglass with no gap because of the air spring that you mentioned. But if you're building a double wall then you're actually paying more money for less insulation if you choose Rockwool Safe'n'Sound over fiberglass.
Good point
Air is not a sound insulation, it's a thermal insulation IF it's air that doesn't move (trap between vapor barrier). For soudproofing, you want mass. That's why MLV is so effective. Rockwool add mass while fiberglass doesn't add much. I've done the experiment with doing a full room with fiberglass and redoing with rockwool. Huge difference. Fiberglass, I can hear music and person talking and even understand. Rockwool? I hear hmmmmm
This is correct and I also came to add, the density of Safe'n'Sound is also a little bit higher. Not a huge amount, I think it has 20% higher density amount. So yes, that along with small air gap vs. Comfortbatt is material in sound deadening. However, only Comfortbatt qualifies for the 30% Energy Tax Credit! (U.S.)
I’m having a studio being built and I was looking to get Owen’s cornering 703 for insulation but the cost is too much as is the rock wool, will the r13 reduce noise bleed as well?
Yes, use the R13. Insulation only needs to be fiberglass to work in your wall system. The R value depends on your climate needs.
You really do not compare Rockwool to OwensCorning here. You basically say that it is expensive which is what we all know already. If you really were comparing the difference then you would build those 6 example walls in a room and test them with the Fiberglass insulation or mineral wool. My own experience with Rockwool is that it has superior sound deadening qualities when compared to Fiberglass in regular walls and floors. I also thought that it was odd that you did not compare a simple wall with insulation with 2 layers of drywall. That would be, by far, the cheapest that you did not test and what many contractors do in quality apartment buildings.
I don’t focus on soundproofing apartments. I help people with recording studios. Do what you want man. I’m just making my point.
Owens Corning has their own mineral wool product called Thermafiber, fwiw. I can't find rockwool locally but can get thermafiber and they seem similar
that's because pink insulation is designed to be pack loosely. To benefit from the Rvalue insulation effect, it requires that it's as fluffy as cotton. But to get it to be sound dampening you have to pack it down tight and the Rvalue deminishes.
Trust me, you would have to get 2x batons of fluffy pink stuff or 1x baton of rockwool to fill the same gap.
Hey man, love your videos. Im glad I found your channel before I start my studio build... I am building a recording studio in my basement. as it sits now the 2x4 framing is up against the house, so concrete floor, and concrete walls surrounding. would you recommend building a double wall in this scenario, or could I get away with decoupling and using 2 sheets of drywall on a single wall system?
Are you thinking iso clips on the concrete walls? I like to build a wall off the concrete wall to decouple in this scenario.
@soundproofyourstudio was hoping I could get away with one wall in this case… I was thinking ISO clips on the frame that’s there. Then 2 sheets of drywall. So the frame is technically up against the house but the drywall would be decoupled from the frame…. If that won’t work then double wall it is..(Sidenote, This might be a dumb question but if mass is key, why not use cement board instead of drywall??)
(Another sidenote, in the case of a double wall build, would it make a difference to use safe n sound on the second wall while keeping regular insulation against the brick)
Hey man, thanks for the great video!
I live in a flat where neighbours complained of noise few times, and I have an acoustic-sized electronic drumkit, meaning with normal sized, hollow drum shells.
I did audio tests pre-and-post filling the entire kick drum with 2 huge blankets & a heavy bike lock, and I got about a 3dB reduction in noise.
I got noise complaints again and was thinking of filling the kick drum, as well as other toms, again, but with better materials. I thought of Rockrool immediatelly as I had heard a lot about it, but unsure it would help after seeing your video. Any idea/alternative suggestions? Thank you :)
Rockwool is great at sound absorption. In a kick drum it could help. I would look at soundproofing your room rather than muting your drums.
Don't listen to this advice...
This is the difference between Academic Theory and Real World Experience/ application (Wisdom wins out against education)... for the cost of using mineral wool insulation your benefit is very noticeable (I agree that "Rockwool Safe 'n' Sound" is a marketing gimmick, but installing the densest mineral wool you can afford will make a noticeable difference)... and on top of that; it improves your homes fire-safty.
It doesn’t noticeably improve isolation in your double wall system. Still a good product though. Just more expensive. That’s all.
@@soundproofyourstudio I disagree... what it provides is "noticable" (now if that difference is worth the extra cost to you "I agree that value judgment is subjective"). 🤔
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I built a "soundproof addition" onto my home so that my elderly father could move in with me (double stud walls separated with a 10" air gap and one layer of ⅝ on both sides.)... and a few months after he moved in I decided to go back in and add R15 Rockwool to both walls (just had to open one side to access both walls, I wish I had done that from the beginning "it would have saved me some $$$")... it "sounds" better now. And it was still cheaper than using MLV, Double layer of ⅝, and Acoustic Caulking. I know/ agree that each of those additions would have made "more noticeable improvements" but they also required "more specialized skill to install" and the increase in cost to pay someone with those skills to perform the work/ or to do it myself, were cost prohibitive for my budget vs just hiring a standard framing sub who has experience building stud walls with insulation and ⅝ sheething).
I'm not an Expert in "sound" (or whatever academic field this would pertain to), maybe it's a case of scale (like for a studio/ room it isn't noticeable enough to justify, but on the scale of an addition it is)?
I used Owens Corning (mineral wool) Thermafiber for sound and fire R15 for 3.5 inches thick for interior and exterior walls.
Thanks for watching
What if I need to soundproof the ceiling between the basement and the main floor living area? Is installing Rockwool insulation behind the ceiling tiles (which are already removed due to water damage) recommended? Just trying to find solutions to recording studio noise in basement, while ceiling tiles down are already down. I don’t have a whole lot of money to invest. Thoughts? Btw, I sound a deal on some Rockwool, for about .50 per sq ft
Your best bet to a to decouple the ceiling using hat channels and acoustic clips. You can use Rockwool. It won’t hurt, but it is not what makes a ceiling soundproof. You need two layers of 5/8” drywall, hat channels, acoustic clips, then insulation bats in between your ceiling joists. You also need to make sure all your lights are soundproofed as well using putty pads or boxes around them.
Makes lots of sense, thank you :).
You're most welcome!
hey, thanks for all the videos - they are indeed helpful. any chance for you to give a recommendation of the Owens Corning R13 Kraft Insulation, which they sell in Austria? if thats too much of a hassle, nevermind! i just figured you'd find a product quicker than a complete noob haha
It should work just fine
@@soundproofyourstudio i mean can you recommend an alternative product which is sold in austria?
Please give me some guidance. I have 2 21" horn loaded subwoofers in my basement. I mix music at very loud volumes, so I can feel the music. The issue I am having is my neighbor 70yds away will no longer tolerate the bass sounds he is getting in his house. What can I do to help mitigate or absorb these waves or redirect. I have been doing some research and I believe that properly making some sort of panel designs and bass traps. Also, while setting up my subwoofers in a cardioid placement, I am hoping to help with the situation. What are your thoughts?
You need to sound isolate before you sound absorb. Bass traps are for acoustics in the room not sound leaving the room.
Keep in mind I just stumbled across this channel, but do you cover flooring in any of your videos?
Yes I do!
To me it seems the best value without losing space is a what is called a staggered stud wall. For example, if a 2x4 wall, use 2x3 studs alternating 16" OC on both sides of the wall. Itll decouple the studs as well provide a nailing face for 5/8 drywall as well as provide a space for insulation (take your pick)
Yeah it is a good compromise. The decoupling is just not as good so your soundproofing will not be as good.
This is what I’m about to do in my basement. This a situation where the safe n sound makes sense or would I be better off going fiberglass and doubling up on the drywall?
@@TheyCallMeLloyd07 safe and sound is more dense than their comfortbatt product and denser than fiberglass. If you're diy then pick safe and sound
Hello, i just happened to come across this video after researching rockwool insulation. I work online and i need to soundproof my home.
The walls are concrete, the floor is tiled with louvers glass windows.
I need some advice as to what materials i should use, please.
I would really really appreciate your help please. Thank you.
Sure, fill out this application and I could see if I can help you: www.soundproofyourstudio.com/Step1
I use Owens Corning Fire and Sound. The R value is 15 for a 3.5 inch thick batt. I have performed experiments with R13 fiberglass batt vs the Owens Corning product. Despite the nearly equivalent specifications for STC improvement within standard gypsum walls and NRC specifications, the Owens Corning mineral wool insulation provided a 7 dB greater reduction of noise transmission through the wall, at low frequencies. (
Interesting! Well the point is that the soundproof system does the isolation and the insulation damps resonances in the wall. It really isn’t adding much to transmission loss when you look at the wall as a whole.
@@soundproofyourstudio Perhaps not over the complete range of audible frequencies, but I am doubting that, since it certainly increases the the sound transmission loss of the wall assembly for frequencies less than 500 Hz, the range of spectrum of sound that I needed to attenuate. This appears to be another example of the worthlessness of STC ratings. The STC procedural specification for windows states that the STC figure is not intended to be applied to sound from music systems, machinery, transportation, etc., and the transmission loss vs frequency curve must be considered. Then there is the addition of the A-weighting to the data, prior to publishing the curve, evidently to increase the STC figure. I advocate prohibiting STC ratings, requiring publishing of the sound transmission loss vs one-third octave band center frequency curves for all products and building assemblies.
I’m planning to build a mobile recording studio, which will need thermal insulation and sound absorption for live recordings. Any recommendations for the exterior walls of the recording booth? Thanks.
I would need more info on the design, but mass is key so make those walls as heavy as possible. 2 layers of 5/8 drywall or an equivalent mass.
Mass spring mass was very interesting to learn. Do you have more videos on this topic so I can get more information?
Thank you. Liked and subscribed
I have more information on soundproof walls, but should do a video just on the mass Spring mass system.
@@soundproofyourstudio awesome that’s a video I’d love to see!
Rockwool is marketing the hell out of Safe n Sound, and that marketing has been very effective. I am in several home theater groups, and every time soundproofing comes up, people will recommend Rockwool for soundproofing, even though experts have been saying for years that fiberglass works just as well inside a wall cavity.
Yup good marketing.
Rockwool insulation's R value is 3.0 to 3.3 per inch compared to 2.2 to 2.7 per inch for Fiberglass. While Rockwool is noticeably more expensive it does provide far better insulation value than Fiberglass, by almost 30%. Rockwool also has a higher STC rating (45-52) than Fiberglass (33-39). It appears that you are skewing your results to justify the lower cost.
Rockwell is a better product for many reasons but it doesn’t improve isolation over cheaper options is my point. So if you want to save money in one area, not using rockwool may be a good option.
I used Safe & Sound in a box like structure to dampen the sound from my very noisy dust collector. It made a huge difference. Probably reduced the db by at least 80%.
Awesome! It might do the trick I. Some situations, but I don’t use it for higher level sounds or low frequencies.
Which one would you recommend for an isolation drum booth I’m planning to build in my basement?
Use regular insulation for your isolation and rockwool for acoustic paneling
@@soundproofyourstudio one last question.
My basement is all cemented. Should I make a subfloor and build the booth on top of it or just leave the cement floor alone? Thanks
Thanks for the video. Very informative. I believe you misspoke when you said, “doesn’t have an r-value” at least twice. Building materials have R-values. A sheet of glass has an R-value. I think you’re just trying to say that it’s not indicated on the packaging, not officially rated, and it would not be OK for an inspector if used for attic and exterior walls. It does have an R-value of about R12. So in specific use cases, like interior walls, or in area where you didn’t care whether the inspector cared, it will indeed work just the same as fiberglass but would be more fire resistant, reduced toxic fumes, etc. It is not wallet-friendly though!
Great point and thank you for the correction. Yes, I meant the r value is not advertised on the packaging.
The R value of rockwool is actually better than fluffy pink. In Canada there is R value rating on rockwool.
Question about wall assembly and decoupling. Presuming a "single leaf budget" - I would be working with single leaf exterior walls made of wood. I understand that studs 24" OC will deliver slightly better results than studs 16" OC primarily because of reduced coupling (less connections from interior to exterior). Now, to extrapolate that to a pole barn or post frame construction, if the "studs" were actually 6x6 posts spaced 8 feet apart, should this further decoupling result in a better single leaf wall?
The real question is how will you decouple the drywall from your wall. Single leaf is fine but you need acoustic clips and furring channel to truly soundproof your wall. Otherwise, just build a wall and not worry about soundproofing.
@@soundproofyourstudio Right, but compared to traditional stick frame construction, would I have reduced sound with fewer connections as in this case? If it's a few STC points better for the same cost, that would be nice.
@@bobsondugnutt7526 I am also in the midst of starting a post frame which brought me to find this video for our bed room and bathroom. Did you find any answers to your questions since then. Thanks
@@SPCUL8R To clarify here I am not a professional builder or engineer.
For my case I'm looking for a big open room and the only way that works with my budget is for them all to be exterior walls. After talking with several builders in my area, one suggested that for single leaf construction, a staggered stud wall system would be arguably cheaper and would last longer since it would be on a concrete footing rather than in the ground. Also there are sound isolation lab tests for this design. It can be used as the main wall in a duplex due to the level of sound isolation.
In my opinion post-frame would accomplish much of the same thing due to the level of decoupling (assuming true exterior girts and not bookshelf girts) but the exterior of the walls would probably have to be sheathed with wood and fiberglass insulated in order to best contain the sound. I don't believe fastened metal sheathing + some sort of foam for air sealing/insulation would be as effective for sound mitigation but I don't think those experiments have been performed anyway.
Hope this helps. Calling around for local builders until you find one who is genuinely passionate about improving his/her craft is a good way to go. They will take the time to hear you out and offer better suggestions for your region and budget.
@@bobsondugnutt7526 I have been on the phone quite a bit as I'm trying to make the most cost effective,but efficient building possible and that's what led me post frame construction.
From all the builders I've called only a couple have been into any kind of building science. Probably because I live in a place it's not cared about a lot. Smaller town Alabama. But the ones I have talked to the spray foam guy was the only one who's thoughts matched my own research. The joists will be 4x6 and with closed cell being sprayed directly on the metal sheathing once up I should still have about 4" of dead air before you hit the sheetrock. We'll be using 5/8 sheet rock on 2x6 shelving on the inside. So I wonder if this will leave a nice air cavity and be enough material on each side of the air cavity since closed cell is quite dense, and the 5/8 sheet rock is heavier duty as well.
Slightly off topic but, as an engineer I would much appreciate any comments. Our main level hardwood floors echo--a lot--voices, and other normal sounds. We're not willing to add more rugs and room absorption options, but we have an unfinished basement with 'Silent Floor' joists fully accessible. We're considering putting Rockwool Safe'n'Sound or other material in between the floor joists in the basement ceiling. The batts would not touch the bottom of the subfloor perfectly even when pressed up, I suppose. In your opinion, would this help the "echo factor" upstairs? Suggestions appreciated.
Exact same situation and doing this myself right now. My main priority is to reduce sound from the basement getting up to the first floor especially because we're building out a theater area and, as our kids get older, expect the basement to become a lot noisier. My thought was mineral wool in the voids between the joists and then sound isolation clips to mount hat channel/drywall furring to and, finally, a single layer of 1/2" drywall on those channels (don't have the room or need to do two 5/8"). Not sure if this is the right choice, I'd love to skip the clips and get the ~2" back and lower labor and materials cost
It depends if the floor is conducting sound and amplifying it in the cavity or if you need some acoustic panels on your ceiling or walls.
Adding rockwool or another slag wool product will add a nominal amount of potential damping to some of the footfall noise. It will not significantly impact the RT or reverberation time of your room.
Environments with a high level of harder surfaces will need to add some softer surfaces or acoustical finishes to your space, specifically ones that have a high NRC (Noise Reduction Coefficient) or SAA (Sound Absorption Average) Rating. There are acoustically rated gypsum or plaster boards, or site built acoustical panel systems that minimize the aesthetic impact of the treatment in the space. Hope this helps.
If you are not going to do a double wall system, what is the best fill and cover design IYO for a single wall to get as good as possible results?
Sure, in that case I would use acoustic clips and hat channels and two layers of 5/8 inch drywall with green glue in the middle.
And for insulation? Would you still use standard pink or a Rockwool product in a single wall? It makes sense to me that pink would be used in a double wall construction and it is what I have seen in every studio I have worked in when you have a chance to see inside the wall build. However, not being assigned an R value is ultimately due to not being tested for one since it's intended use doesn't require it. But it does have one, it's just unknown. The lack of an R value doesn't tell us that it wouldn't perform in that capacity. And it is more dense. Thanks for your help with this question. @@soundproofyourstudio
you could also put sonopan + 5/8 drywall, it's more effective then 2 drywall, doesn't require greenglue (less messy and way cheaper since you need 1 or 2 tube per sheet of drywall) and perform better.
Be sure the non-Rockwool recommend products is as non-flammable as Rockwool and 100% inorganic as well. otherwise you run the risk of fire spreading rapidly and if any moisture gets in you get fungus in your walls. This you won’t get using rockwool As it is completely inorganic and inflammable.
Good point
I have a Duplex I renovated and tried several methods of soundproofing the party wall between the two suites. one day I went in, ripped out the drywall on one side, I then had 2 back to back 2x4 walls with an air gap like in his diagram, my tenant was on the other side with only 1 layer of drywall seperating us. When he talked it was like he was in the same room as me, almost no soundproofing.
That night I filled both wall cavities with safe and sound, being careful to fit each batt perfectly and maintain my air gap between the walls . The next day I came in to board the wall on my side. I was completely shocked when my tenant talked on his side, the safe and sound had made practically zero difference, it sounded almost the exact same. Once the first layer was boarded on my side it almost completely drowned him out.
my take away from that was that insulation is not a game changer, what seemed to be a game changer for me was doing multiple layers of drywall with green glue in between (an acoustical air gap layer) I ended up doing 2 layers of 5/8 drywall and I couldn't hear talking at all. A few years later I renovated the other side and did 2 layers of 1/2" then 1 layer of 5/8 drywall with greenglue. That wall is super soundproof. A blender on full is barely audible.
If I were to soundproof any walls going forward I think I would do 3 layers of drywall with greenglue. 3 layers of 1/2" just keep price down a bit. this should give you a fire rating too, but just to be safe you could finish the last layer with 5/8 type X so no inspector could argue otherwise.
I also did a wall with resilient channel and 2 layers of 5/8 which probably worked better, it's just rare you have a wall not being fastened into with anything like cabinets, wall mount tv, shower surround or something. greenglue and multiple layers is just simple too.
I found it really interesting in his diagram that layers of drywall on the inside of a party wall actually decrease soundproofing.
also always find it funny that safe and sound has no R value, stuff looks identical to their R-14 batt insulation. pretty sure they just shaved off half an inch and then marketed the crap out of it
Great example of what I try to say over and over. I wonder if green glue is even necessary. Try three layers of 5/8 or 5/8, 1/2, 5/8 and I would be curious if you got similar results.
guy.. where I live rockwool is cheaper than fibreglass.
...you know what else is cheaper and falls under "good enough" for the vast majority of us, including most home studios..? using it in a regular wall cavity instead of spending twice as much $ on lumbar and insulation (of any type) to build a double wall/doubly insulated with an air gap in-between...
.. I mean sure, if you have the available space and budget to do the double wall thing then go for it - but thats really only necessary for a wall between the studio mixing room and an isolation booth...
also.. seriously, don't try to spin a double wall as more affordable option than rockwool for the masses in standard wall construction. which still works very well all things considered...lol...
Does it though? I challenge you to put a full band with a regular wall with rockwool and tell me it is soundproof.
I did say "good enough for most of us" . most of us are not using rockwool inside regular wall construction and expecting it to soundproof the room 100% from a full band, and thats not how its marketed either... to that point, Ive still heard the sound from many bands through a proper double wall build too...
but yes. if you want as much soundproofing as possible - double wall construction is the way to go and I acknowledged that above when I said it should definitely be used for a wall between the mixing room and iso booth (band room)... but its also significantly more expensive and comes at the cost of smaller rooms. the extra cost and compromise in available square footage might not always be the best choice for small home studios/podcast studios/or home theatre... and certainly not worth it if what you are after merely some more privacy between rooms..
Excellent advice and I am so glad I did the calculations and watched some of your other videos before I had started my indoor studio. I did not go with rock wool and went with the R13 on a split double wall. I am glad I did not make a mistake. Thank you for all the knowledge you bring to CZcams.
Great to hear!
Hey I’m really confused about the r value. My understanding of r value is it’s a measure of thermal insulation, what is the relationship to r value and sound proofing a studio? Why did you go with an r-13 instead the rock wool safe and sound?
Can I use firespan 90 on 2x4 walls??? Or rainbarrier???
I suppose you could but a thicker insulation would be better
I think what may not be considered here is how the fiberglass slumps and compresses vs how mineral wool holds its shape and fills areas completely. The main difference is not the material so much but more its construction/ density. It's easier to do a good job with rock wool.
Good point! I just want to make sure people know the rockwool is not the reason something is soundproof or sound isolated.
how much db it's adds insulation ?
Insulation is part of the system as a whole. You can’t look at just the insulation alone as a major factor in isolation.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 🎤 *Soundproofing is not just about insulation; it's about the entire wall assembly, including factors like decoupling, mass, and air gaps.*
02:20 🏠 *Rockwool Safe and Sound is not suitable for exterior walls as it lacks an R-value for proper insulation.*
03:56 💰 *Rockwool Safe and Sound is more expensive than alternative insulation materials like fiberglass, which offer similar acoustic performance.*
06:44 💲 *Choosing a cheaper insulation option like Owens Corning's Craft R13 can save you a significant amount of money without compromising soundproofing quality.*
09:00 🛠️ *Rockwool is excellent for acoustic treatment and panels but not the best choice for soundproofing walls in a recording studio or soundproof room.*
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Thanks
I have a question, so we just moved to a new apartment new build, it's next to a Union Pacific train station. So we can hear the train honk the horn on top of the hour. I wanted to know how I would be able to reduce the noise best way possible. Like what type of products would be best to cover the wall in to reduce the noise as much as possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated 🙏
Any advice for those who live in Brick/Concrete homes?
I'm from India where homes in the city are 100% built out of concrete blocks, concrete roof, concrete everything (And a bunch of pane glass windows).
That is great! You have a way better outside isolation shell. Just build a new wall and ceiling on the inside. Put insulation between the walls.
@@soundproofyourstudio Any ideas for temporary/removable walls? Changes to the construction aren't really permitted in most homes (urban locality/apartment/rented homes etc)
Mineral wool is overkill for soundproofing. But keep in mind it handles moisture, fire, and insects a LOT better than fiberglass. For some of us the extra cost is worth it.
Good point
I saw a teston CZcams confirming the GLASSWOOL has better sound absorption qualities then rockwool (makea sense since ita much "fluffier") But, rockwool is much more heat resistant in a fire situation. 🔥
Fire safety is important and is something to weigh into the equation.
I'd love to know:
Where did you search up Rockwool Safe n Sound at Home Depot for $56!!! If this video came out 2 months ago on this date here in the North East RockWool Safe n Sound is $82!!! even more so a roll of R13 Batts are also $82! .71 cents a sqft vs $1.38 a sqft. Safe n Sound is pretty much double the cost, but if it was $56 like you show I'd buy it in a heart beat!!!
Yeah it must have been on sale!!!
Rockwool is on strike in 🇨🇦 ~4 months to get :(
what should be used?
Any insulation. The point is in your iso walls use whatever insulation works for climate control. Rockwool is just overkill
If you care enough about fire safety, Rockwool is the least flammable out of all insulation.
Fair enough. I do care about fire safety. Are you aware of fire stops?
@@soundproofyourstudio Yes, I know of them. And honestly, regular fiber glass insulation is not far behind on fire resistance. The paper on the fiberglass doesn’t help. So you won’t go wrong either way. I would just steer clear of foam insulation. But if you do everything else right, have fire stops, good wiring, etc… you should generally be ok. Great video on sound proofing walls! I learned a lot!
@@TheStephenBakerJust so you are aware you don't need to use paper for fiberglass installation That's a laziness thing. That and most sound Insulated walls are fire rated drywall often doubled up. If you haven't left the building 1 hour after a fire has started you'll probably have already died from the smoke. If there's a real fire risk rockwool vs fiberglass isn't enough justification. You'd need an actual fire block wall at that point. You also need to consider that the engineered floor joists will only last 1 hour before collapsing anyways so beyond the fire rated drywall the rockwool won't save your house if your joists aren't gonna last just as long. The engineered joists are glued together and begin to melt at very low temperatures. I'd save the money get fiberglass, solid wood and a concrete fire block load bearing wall instead imo.
Rockwool does have an R value, it’s just not certified as it’s for an interior wall.
Yes, that was my mistake. Just not an advertised R Value.
It worked amazing for me
Glad to hear
I'd like to mount Rockwool onto a piece of wood or Styrofoam... but I'm concerned if it's safe to be breathing next to. Is there something safer?
The goal is to remove my sauna door and replace it with a door on wheels that can be pushed in place or completely out of the way!
You can wrap Rockwool in cloth. Not exactly sure what you are trying to do and if you even need Rockwool.
So Rockwell is the best for sound if you don’t care about temperature
Nope
What material is the best in It’s place? Or even what material is better in it’s place?
Video summary [00:00:00][^1^][1] - [00:09:58][^2^][2]:
This video explains why rockwool safe and sound is not a good choice for soundproofing walls. It covers the physics of soundproofing, the difference between soundproofing and acoustic treatment, the importance of R value for insulation, and the cost comparison of rockwool and fiberglass.
**Highlights**:
+ [00:00:00][^3^][3] **The misconception of rockwool for soundproofing**
* Many people think rockwool is essential for soundproofing
* The video challenges this idea and shows why it's not true
+ [00:01:21][^4^][4] **The physics of soundproofing**
* Soundproofing is about the system as a whole, not just the insulation
* A mass-spring-mass system is the best way to isolate sound
* The type of insulation does not make a big difference
+ [00:03:21][^5^][5] **The difference between soundproofing and acoustic treatment**
* Rockwool is good for acoustic panels and reducing reflections in the room
* It is not very effective for soundproofing and isolating sound
* Soundproofing requires a proper wall design and decoupling
+ [00:05:01][^6^][6] **The importance of R value for insulation**
* Rockwool safe and sound does not have an R value and is not meant for exterior walls
* R value is important for climate control and energy efficiency
* Different walls and regions require different R values
+ [00:06:36][^7^][7] **The cost comparison of rockwool and fiberglass**
* Rockwool safe and sound is more expensive than fiberglass insulation
* The video shows an example of how much money can be saved by choosing fiberglass
* The video recommends cutting corners on insulation and not on soundproofing
Cool
Thx
Thank you too!
its not that it doesn't posses R-vale characteristics, because it clearly does, its that rockwool chose not to have it rated for an R value to save on cost, regulations, etc
Good point
Exactly! The difference in R value might even be marginal.
Rockwool works well for acoustic panels, to dampen reflections. Acoustic panels is not sound proofing.
Yes you are correct
There's some big factors you're leaving out immaterial of sound. Rockwool is expensive, yes, but it has numerous advantages over fiberglass besides a little sound difference. Rockwool is fireproof up to 1000 degrees, it doesn't smoke when heat is applied, it's water resistant if it gets wet, it's easier to handle, and rodents don't like it. Those are all pros that fiberglass insulation doesn't have. Fiberglass will shrivel up under water, it will smoke and catch on fire, it's itchy as hell, and rodent's absolutely love it and make nests in it. So while the sound difference might not be huge, there's really no comparison as to which is the better product overall and why it commands a premium over fiberglass. For me, I'm willing to spend the extra 40 cents per foot to keep my family safe and possibly prevent my house from burning down. I know this video is about sound, I get that, but it might be something you at least touch on as a difference.
Good point
Just kinda yappin huh? I ended up remodeling my house by literally gutting everything and building the inside from the ground up and puttining staggered studs with rockwool on all interior walls and you hear almost nothing from other rooms.
It works well for voices but not drums or bass guitar or studio construction.
Let's compare **Rockwool insulation**, **Rockwool Safe'n'Sound**, and **fiberglass insulation** in terms of their **R-values**:
1. **Rockwool Insulation**:
- **R-Value**: Rockwool insulation has an R-value ranging from **3.0 to 3.3 per inch**.
- **Composition**: Rockwool (also known as Roxul) is made from rocks and absorbs sound waves effectively. It is fire-resistant, durable, water-repellent, and resistant to mold buildup.
- **Applications**: Rockwool can be used in walls, ceilings, floors, attics, engine compartments, and machinery rooms.
- **Soundproofing**: Due to its density and porosity, Rockwool is a great temperature and sound insulator.
2. **Rockwool Safe'n'Sound**:
- **R-Value**: Rockwool Safe'n'Sound has a density of **2.5 lb/ft³** and does not specify a R-value, since insulation is not its primary purpose:
- **STC (Sound Transmission Class)**: 45 on 16" for center wood studs, 52 with 24" for center steel studs, and 50 when installed between floor joists.
- **Noise Reduction Coefficient (NRC)**: 1.05 for 3-inch thickness, which is better for sound control.
- **Composition**: Similar to Rockwool, it is made of mineral wool and offers sound absorption and vibration reduction.
- **Applications**: Suitable for walls, ceilings, floors, and attics.
- **Effectiveness**: Effective for soundproofing.
3. **Fiberglass Insulation**:
- **R-Value**: Fiberglass insulation has an R-value ranging from **2.2 to 2.7 per inch**.
- **Composition**: Made of glass fibers, it is commonly used for thermal insulation.
- **Applications**: Used in various construction applications.
- **Comparison**: Rockwool has better insulation than fiberglass, making it more effective for both soundproofing and fire resistance.
I use Rockwool insulation in cold Boston for my exterior walls instead of fiberglass because it has a higher R value, is fire-resistant, and also reduces noise from the outside in the city more effectively than fiberglass insulation.
Right on
Flammability and Carcinogenic properties?
Sure that is something to think about too, but unrelated to sound isolation
@@soundproofyourstudio it is related to price factor
Cool
Thanks
This video is great!
Glad you liked it.
The problem I have with CZcamsrs saying not to use mineral wool soundproofing insulation is that while you insist there's no difference I have experienced the real world difference when it comes to NOT spending $60,000 on building a room inside a room and double drywalling both sides. R13 provides near zero sound difference to not at all and the proper safe and sound difference is stark. And yes I know you are going to say, "in a lab they found this so your wrong and blah blah blah. I'm talking real world and I don't live in a lab I live in the real world and I've installed the stuff. it's not the same by any stretch.
Okay if you use regular walls and do not use a soundproofing system then yes rockwool will perform better. But when you use a soundproofing system that doesn’t cost 60k it doesn’t make enough of a difference to justify the cost.
@@soundproofyourstudio You are literally building a room in a room. a 2x4 where I am is $4. A bundle of r14 fiberglass is $78, a bundle of r-14 rock wool is $88. 4x8 drywall 1/2 inch is $17, $30 for 5/8 per sheet. For a 10x10 room that's about $350 in lumber for the walls alone (which you can't put together because you haven't bought the nails) 10 grand for drywall (not mudded or taped or screwed to the wall because you haven't got any of those materials) plus insulation. There's no way you aren't paying at least $35,000 in materials alone before even discussing treating the floor plus labour isn't free even if you do it yourself which will take longer so count paying yourself whatever your wage is. To soundproof a room the way you are talking is going to cost that much minimum.
Plus you just reduced the value of your home because of the square footage you lost which isn't going to be desirable if you resell unless it's in a commercial studio and you sell it to someone looking for that.
Decoupling is important.
Sure is
I have a question about the decoupling; I would greatly appreciate any help either of you could provide. I am currently building a studio (drum room, primarily) and I am doing my best to copy Wilson's project that he built in his back yard. Except my build is on the ground level underneath my house that is built on stilts. I actually have two questions: 1- do I insulate both the outer and inner walls or just the outer wall? 2- when adding the two layers of Type X drywall how do I account for the gap from the concrete floor to the bottom of the drywall? Or do I let the drywall rest on the floor? I wouldn't think resting the drywall on the floor is the right thing to do. If I leave an 8th or quarter inch gap from floor to drywall then there will be a gap for sound to enter/escape since the drywall will not be fastened directly to the bottom plate of the wall. Thank you for any help you can give me.
BS. I've built 21 panels with Rockwool and my room sounds AMAZING.
Panels are acoustics not isolation. I’m saying don’t put rockwool in your walls unless you want to have the benefits of mineral wool, but added sound isolation is not one of them. Rockwool does absorb sound for room reflections.
At 8:31 you just contradicted your entire video and made the case for rock wool sound proof. Think about it for a minute and you will see why. (One minute later) if rockwool can reduce acoustic reflections then it reduces the overall deadness of your studio, even if it is in a wall and not on the surface. Going through drywall doesn't magically nullify the effect of the rock wall in the wall. sound waves penetrate all surfaces to some degree, internal surfaces reflect, if it hits rockwool and it has a higher absorption than fiberglass then physically it reflects less. Agreed, not as effective as just hanging on a bare wall, but it still is doing the physics you mention. The comments of real world experiences in this video testify to the value of reflection diminishment. Moreover you neglected to mention that sound proof as a definition depends on the context or use case. Are you trying to prevent reflection or transmission, or both?
I did not contradict. The system as a whole is what matters. I am literally trying to save people money. You of course can use Rockwool but you won’t see a noticeable difference. Plus Owens Corning pink actually does a better job in the low end below a 100 hz according to JH Brandts independent testing.
This is an example of why to be careful of influencers that rely on likes. Rockwool Comfortbatt has Rvalue and acoustic insulation also same material different brand is Thermofiber fire and sound guard. Fiberglass is a horrible insulation product. Fiberglass is only rated for 15-20 years and falls apart and loses insulation value, holds moisture and produces mold when wet and is flamible.
Influencer haha never thought of myself as that title. Anyways, yes blown in cellulose is a much better product for green purposes, but most people are on tiny budgets and this is an area where they can save some money. In a perfect world we would all pay top dollar for amazing products. Then soundproofing would be easy.
What a waste of my time watching this video, your title should be Rockwell is good but if u want a cheap option 😂
For many people budget is a big restraint. It doesn’t help with isolation any more than cheaper alternatives.
You're actually a little incorrect. Just because you haven't found the R value of "Safe and Sound" does not mean it has NONE!
As a contractor, I had to know the difference, so I actually SPOKE with their tech department about 6 years ago. Because one of these products is "slightly" thicker, it is a better choice for thermal insulation, while the other is 1/2" less thick, but better for sound resistance. This does cause it to have a "SLIGHTLY" less R-Value, but, it's the better choice for "sound proofing".
Because othe OTHER, "Comfort Batt", is better for temperature contnrol, they post its R Value of 15!
The teck explained to me that; the "Comfort Batt" is is a full 3 1/2" thick completely filling a 2x4 wall cavity, and that 1/2", gives it a slightly BETTER R-value.
Whereas, the "Safe-N-Sound" is only 3" thick. This is to provide a small 1/2" air gap in that same 2x4 wall cavity.
By not permitting the rockwool to touch BOTH opposing wall surfaces, any potential sound transfer would ONLY be through the studs, and NOT the rockwool insulation itself, unlike any that might occur with the Commfort Batt.
He said the ONLY real tradeoff is 1/2" material, and that if you live on a noisy street EITHER would be acceptable, but the customer would need to decide which benefit they prefer!
I have NO idea why they don't just list the R value of each, but I think he said it's about R-12 or 13 for the.
Ahh you completely missed my point! But thank your for clarifying the R Value. You are not soundproofing by adding safe n sound in your walls. True soundproofing requires decoupling your wall system, making it airtight and and adding mass. Simply building a 2x4 studs wall and throwing in Safe n Sound is not going to do that much.
@soundproofyourstudio You did a great job on the graphics, but it seems you're completely discrediting ANY benefit of Safe n Sound, even though the difference is significant!
Several of your own commentors have stated this, and I also, can attest to it!
A "double" wall, although superior over a single wall, in MOST cases, is not an option or even needed, either because of cost or the decrease in room space. And unless you're building a theater, or live next to a racetrack, is not usually needed!
@@timrick2 sure but this is not for your average home with minimal needs. I work with drummers and people who want to crank their amps up. It is misleading to tell them just stuff safe in sound in your wall and calm it a day. We are in completely different markets.
Firstly, I really appreciate your detail and thouroughness in your videos!!
And,... I agree that we may be talking about different applications, BUT, it's your thumbnail that seems to be misleading.
In big bold letters, it says "DON'T USE ROCKWOOL to sound proof"! Not, "IS ROCKWOOL THE BEST OPTION FOR SOUNDPROOFING"! And THAT, is going to get the attention of ANYONE who has previously used Rockwool, and is wondering why we shouldn't have! Based on the comments, and myself, it worked!
But then, you go on to say there's NO R value, and that's simply incorrect. @@soundproofyourstudio
I totally agree it’s not worth the money. Look at the published density Thank for this video hope people listen
Glad it was helpful
its is carcinogenic for a less db improvement
The point is that the expense doesn’t add to isolation. If you want a cleaner product then yes rockwool would be a good one.
TL;DR rockwool doesn't make much of a difference compared to fiberglass but is way more expensive
Agreed
My god.... 3mo later and rockwool is $79 per bag. 😂
Must have been a sale
Rock wool is less toxic end of discussion
Fair enough
Im not trying a place for a concert.
Right on
Rockwool works fine agains air sound
Right on
disagree strongly with the premise of this video. Using quality materials simply works. The failure is only using rockwool. If your wall is composed mainly of 3 materials then all 3 materials need to be of quality. Now lets upgrade our 2x4s to metal studs. We can use 6" steel studs
now we have upgraded 2 of our 3 materials and our stc rating has skyrocketed all the way to 52! with the use of 16" spacing and 5.5" rockwool. Yes we have already achieved over 50stc without exotic materials or complicated assembly... just plain old quality materials
Now lets upgrade our 3rd material, the drywall, from a standard 5/8ths gypsum to soundbreak XP.
Now we have an stc rating over 60!!!
Notice we didnt need to build a room within a room... we didnt touch mlv. We didnt have to apply green glue (although something is recommended around outlets and such)
No complicated wall assembly. No staggered studs. No double dry wall. no resilient channels. no overly wide spacing between studs. No complications at all really
all we did was use quality sound rated materials
Some people may not have liked the use of 6" studs in my prior example. So lets take a step back and go to 3.5" metal studs
3-5/8" steel studs, 20 gauge (19 mil), 16" o.c.
Insulation: 3-1/2" glass fiber
side 1: 5/8" SoundBreak XP Wall Board
side 2: 5/8" SoundBreak XP Wall Board
This is a VERY basic wall assembly, and we get 50stc just by using quality materials... and thats with glass fiber . when you implement the safe n sound once again stc skyrockets
do you see the importance of simply using quality materials? insulation is just one part of the assembly but a crucial one and its ignorant to tell people not to use sound rated insulation to save a tiny amount of money.... and you used a 30ft room with 10ft high ceilings in your video as an example. That's bigger than the vast majority of peoples rooms they are trying to isolate.
a much more realistic size would be something like 22x16x9.
thats 684 sq ft. and i would actually argue thats still above average size for most rooms. The money savings are minuscule
I don’t agree with not decoupling the walls but thanks for sharing your insight.
IT WORKS perfectly between my neighbours and me...................glasswool and rockwool
Thanks for watching !
Rockwool is for sound studios, guy making this video has no clue what he saying just clickbait for views
Thanks for watching
I finished this video so damn confused. I feel like he kept saying its best-in-class, don't buy it.
Amphetamines
??
Waste of time watching this video
Sorry you felt that way
This is not soundproofing. What you are talking about is sound deadening . You can't soundproof with drywall and insulation alone. Stop it.
Please explain…. Isn’t 100% deadening the same as soundproofing?
@@paulk9534 It is the same thing... Don't know what the commenter is on about!
Thanks for watching!
@@Kshitijj It's not the same thing. Real acousticians no the difference, like John Brandt. These CZcams hacks pretending to know don't use science to back up their claims.
@@Kshitijj Look up John Brandt. He is a real professional acoustic engineer.