Spear vs Sword and Buckler Nick vs Mike Sparring
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- A sparring clip between Nick and Mike of the AHF, the spear is a revival rubber tip head on an oak shaft, sidesword is a mixture of Hanwei parts into a custom sword.
- Sport
Him: *spends the big bucks on a fine sword, and takes many hours of practice and training, reading from masters of old.*
Me: yeah, I got a pointy stick and I’ll win
Spends a lot of money to buy a sword and train with it.
Some peasent: kills him with a sharp stick
This is why you also buy a heavy duty horse, armor him up, and a lance. You're a knight or you're not
@Beemer063 In unarmored sparring at least, it's just plain not as fun as fighting with swords. Spears are effective because they're simple, swords are fun because of all the techniques that can be applied.
Even more simply many experts of the past considered the quarterstaff one of the best weapons a man could use, so you don't even need to sharpen the stick to make it effective.
Doesn't count, spear dude's clearly more than just proficient with the spear. I wish I was as good as him (nobody over here does spear seriously)
I love all the angry comments about how this isn't "fair". The point is that many armchair swordmasters believe that even without a shield, a sword has an advantage over this "peasant weapon". You see them constantly say things like "all the sword user has to do is parry and get past the point". This shows what happens when reality ensues.
+TheChiconspiracy Swords are good but are not good at choping but need a saw motion. 1v1 sword can be good but in real life 100 swords vs 100 spears the swords would have a minimal chance at winning. Want proof look at top great armies in history Romans, Greeks, even asia spear men was your main unit.
+Đỉnh Trương thats what i said.....
Caerere Romans used swords for a few centuries. Mid and late empire, Romans used spears. They solved the missile weapon trade-off by using the plumbata darts, which had much further range and were lighter to carry than the pila. Additionally, this allowed them to carry the hasta as the primary weapon again, which is superior in many ways to the sword against the increasingly well organized, well equipped, and better trained enemies pouring into their borders.
Caerere You're confusing the Macedonian style pike phalanx using long two handed spears with the classical Greek Hoplite. They are as different a weapon as a greatsword and a dagger. (That said, Phyrrus inflicted far MORE causalities on the Romans than they did to his army. The reason his victories were untenable was the fact the Romans could REPLACE men far faster.)
I'm referring ONLY to infantry clashes, NOT utility against cavalry, and the historical record supports my claim. When late republican/early imperial legions are pitted face to face against spearmen who are NOT barbarian rabble, they do NOT simply bulldoze them like a lot of sword wank fans think they do.
At the battle of Corinth, when a VETERAN legion tried to go face to face with the MILITIA hoplites, they were completely ground to a halt despite having driven their cavalry from the field. They had to surround and flank them to win the day.
Hannibal showed what happened when his Libyan spearmen, most likely armed and operating like Greek hoplites, pincered in the Romans at Cannae and many other battles. Despite being vastly outnumbered, the Libyans not only held their own, but proved to be more than a match for the legionaries they faced.
The Batavian revolt is an even better example, since we have an auxiliary infantry unit armed with spears yet with very similar training to the legion. They absolutely massacred two legions sent against them.
The late Roman battle of Strasbourg is a perfect example of why the Romans switched to spears. Despite being greatly outnumbered, a small but flexible and highly disciplined Roman legion armed with SPEARS and throwing darts, supported by archers, massacred a huge German force (which did have longswordsman and axemen), DESPITE losing their cavalry right away in the battle.
The middle and late roman empire did NOT turn to spears simply "because of cavalry" as you imply. Enemy infantry FAR outnumbered enemy cavalry even until the later stages of the Western Empire. They simply found better solutions for missile weaponry (longer ranged and able to carry more of them) that allowed them to return to the primacy of the spear with the sword as a backup.
spears were main used swords were secondary, the roman sword was to short to compete with spears.
This little spar here goes to show an experienced spearman is a poweful opponent that should not be taken lightly.
+NecroBanana It really shows that a swordsman vs a spearman is a very lopsided fight. You could put a spear in the hand of an untrained peasant and they would still defeat a decent swordsman. Not saying the guy in the vid is an untrained spear wielder at all (he's one of the best I've seen) but even if the person with the spear had been marginally ok with a spear, things would likely go the same way thanks to the fact that someone with a sword and buckler can be hit several times before even getting into range to use their weapon.
Stephen Church Actually, this fight does not determine that. They are far too equal in skill to make conjectures as to who would win, the novice with a spear or the master with the sword and shield. So yeah, it certainly does not show that.
You don't need to make conjecture about this particular fight. The results are clear. Skilled spearman vs skilled swordsman the spearman will win most of the time. Looking at history and the treatise from the Codex Wallerstein to the Gladiatoria will tell you that a one on one duel between a spearman and swordsman give a huge advantage to the spearman no matter their skill level. It's not because spears are better than swords it's because the a spear is meant for one thing and a sword is meant for another. The range of a spear will always give a big advantage to one wielding it over someone with a shorter weapon in a one on one duel because they can hit the other person while staying out of striking distance. It's like gun vs sword. Assuming the fight takes place in an unconfined space, the person with the gun will win simply because they can hit the other person and the other person can't hit them.
+Stephen Church Depends on armor.
Lol
The sword fighter is ALWAYS trying to close the distance. But this video highlights just how difficult that is to do. 1.30, a small strike with the sword, but a heavy cut/hack with the spear connected with the swordsmans head, enough that it wouldn't be realistic to continue. There is no holding back, charging in is fine, but trying to do so without getting impaled is a nightmare. The speed afforded by the leverage of the spear is great. With fighters of roughly equal skill, the spear dominates.
@Pud Pete If we gave the swordsman a shield the video would be called spear vs sword and shield, not sword and buckler. I think you assume we were trying to make it a fair fight, or that fighters historically could do the same. There are actually a lot of scenarios where a sword and buckler could meet a spear or similar pole arm. For example in civilian life the buckler was commonly worn with a sword for self defence and staffs, spears, capped staffs which are effectively spears, as well as partizans and other pole arms could be faced outside cities as well as in them against militia, town guards, bodyguards etc. On the battlefield the sword and buckler was a common backup combination for all kinds of soldiers from archers to close quarter infantry. This video is an exhibition displaying one possible encounter of two different weapon combinations. As for what most people know would win in a fight, we find this a long way from the truth, as even skilled martial artists get it wrong all the time, because without exposure or experience to a wide range of weapon types (which only a small minority have) there is not a huge understanding of how different weapons fare against one another.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing in battlefield the shield was more common than that small shield!
also just dont forget the weight differences too! a regular spear is around 1,5-2kg and the longsword is around 1-1,8kg!
also a sowrd&shield is deadly combo withjout any disadvantages but with spear&shield is not too effective in duel! even you just have more disadvantages because your attack angles is more limited also the power of the spear or any polearm weapons!
@@gipsymelody1268 please you would tell me who will use spear&shield in duel, besides Achilles VS Hector?
@@byroneacheight7743 Achilleus was not a demigod also blessed by the styx river with the power of the invulnerability? 😅😅🧐
@@gipsymelody1268 No one use spear&shield in duel against a swordman realistically. Why do I have to kill my advantages?
So basically, the guy with the longer sharp stick has an advantage?
There's a reason spears have been around since the dawn of time and the most used weapon in history.
only if the guy with the superior weapon sucks.
Yes, the guy with the longest stick win.
winrate = length of your weapen + skill (no units)
Basically, the spear guy (Mike, I believe) played to his advantage. The range.
Sword guy (Nick) won the few times he played to the spear's disadvantage - close distance.
All it takes is for the spear to miss one strike and the sword can easily win if he is fast at exploiting the opening and moving in.
As long as the spear-wielder doesn't strike, he's at an advantage and will guarantee a stalemate. The swordsman's best bet is to counterattack, as running in to take the initiative would probably result in him getting impaled because of superior spear range. So to me it looks like it's all about the speed of the spear-wielder's first strike. If fast enough, he'll win; if slow - the swordsman can punish him for his mistake.
(That is, assuming both combatants are of equal skill)
Now I'm no expert fighter with swords and spears, I'm just a boxer. But this is the conclusion I've gotten from "examining" the two weapons and this individual duel.
Nope, I am the sword user here, and can tell you from the impacts that they were far from weak, often stopping me dead and really feeling it despite the rubber tip. The thrust is not the only method of striking with a two hand spear, which several masters describe as using the same principals as staff. Single hand and two hand spear are quite different. The impact power of blows afforded by the long weapon and wide grip is formidable.
i just want to ask how real the weapons what you use guys? i have some real weapons like katanas, knives, crossbow, big dagger, some axe even multiple wood cutter axe! so the point it has real weight or not what you guys using? because i know well how a real weapon is heavy! but really so a human being cant just throwing like a sponge and in many of these videos i seen...
even i seen manytimes how they using a halberd or pole-axe so ridicolous way like it has no 4-5kg and a very inbalanced weight!
@@gipsymelody1268 All every training weapon we use is full realistic weight and balance. Often we have input with the makers and have them based very closely on surviving originals. Occasionally we will use an underweight tool to allow safer training of certain heavy hitting types or for when wearing less protection, but this is not the norm. I am posting from our club channel which is now where all content is posted. To give an example where we use a mix of different weight trainers, original halberds were often around 2kg (based on a lot of museum data). Now the halberd is one of the weapons which presents the most risk for safe training today, and so we have a range of training tools, from 1kg light and safe tools, 1.5kg medium weight, and 2lg full weight, and we use them all for sparring, at different levels of contact and protective gear.
I can't begin to express how much I love spears. They're often incredibly overlooked by people today, with everybody solely fascinated with swords. A spear has reach, speed and is incredibly cheap to make. It's one of the oldest and most effective (close combat *and* ranged) weapons known to mankind. It really deserves more love from more than just the HEMA community.
in my 41 years of watching tv and all the movies were everyone had swords, i got bored with the weapon. but when i saw someone with another weapon it looked so cool. with the resurgence of european martial arts, i'm starting to see why the sword was a personal defense weapon and the spear was the king of the battlefield.
They used swords on the battlefield. Swords and daggers were used for close hand to hand combat. The roman legions primarily used the short sword rather than the spear. Spears were cheaper.
the only army in history were swords were equally used as spears was in the roman army. in every other army in the worlds history spears outnumbered swords.
BuckandOden Every effective, pre-gunpowder infantry to ever walk this earth predominantly used some sort of spear-like weapon (spear, pike, halberd, billhook, etc.). To my knowledge, the Romans were the ONLY infantry that used a sword as a primary weapon for any length of time, and even that was relatively short lived. They started with spears, then switched to swords for a few hundred years, and then switched back to spears as cavalry became more frequently encountered on the battlefield.
Mike Mac Hmm, "the only" =) Rome had the most dominant infantry in history before firearms.
But yes, spears were more common, but most infantrymen that had the means would carry both a spear and a short sword for in close fighting. But to say the sword wasn't a weapon of the battlefield is silly.
i didn't mean "literally" no swords. just a figure of speech.
If swords are so good, why is there no Sword 2?
Spear, Spear 2 (Pike), Spear 3 (Bayonet on rifle)
Checkmate sword bois!
(This comment is satire I’m not crapping on swords for real or anything)
Sword 2 ( claymore ) sword 3 ( zweihander)
@@danny90099 you forgot sword 4: Hellfire missile.
No wonder, the spear was the main weapon for hundreds of years.
Thousands.
*thousands
@@ki-td5yb humanity's ol reliable
We need a cyber spear so we can burn Israel to the ashes 🔥🔥🔥🇮🇱
Even a rifle if attached with knife literally become spear
Am writing a novel with fencing and Melee combat. Thank you very much for expanding my knowledge on how it looks
Looking forward to read the published version
@@zed9095 thank you, maybe another year. 140 pages through rn. Its been a ride
Two lessons from this video:
1. If facing a spear with something shorter than a spear, endeavour to let your mate go first.
2. If using a spear, wear heavy gloves. Seriously, it looks like those fingers got chopped a fair few times. I wonder how many of those blows would have caused a nasty wound, or cut something off had it been a real blade.
spear is useless against a bigger shield, just step inside and slice your opponent up
James Howard That's implying your opponent lets you come close by really committing to that strike. Your opponent can just as easily step back and out to gain more distance and/or switch grips to adjust for tighter fighting.
Staying in the spearmans guard is definitely what you need to do, other wise he's just gonna control the flow of battle and keep at his range but saying the spear is useless against a shield is ignoring how flexible a spear can be.
James Howard K go try and do that against a guy with a spear and see what happens...
@@jameshoward9283 Unless you're using a modern see-through polycarbonate riot shield, you will either have to blind yourself or expose your legs. If the former, you have no way to anticipate stabs at your feet. If the latter, your head is exposes, and spears can be moved nimbly enough to actually threaten both of these during your approach. Overhead spear thrusts can also angle past shields fairly effectively.
Yeah in fairness sword guy got in a couple of hand hits that I think would have ended the fight without serious hand protection, but in some scoring systems points are not awarded for the hands since it's hard to adequately protect them if people are gunning for them.
"Being a CZcams commentator I am an expert on this subject. I can safely say that the guy with the buckler sucks. He should just parry the spear, cut it in in half, or grab it, and then stab the other guy. Trust me, I've played countless video games and watched many movies throughout my life." -This comment section.
I saw a conversation like that unfold yesterday. Guy kept insisting swords were better than speara in duels and kept trying to pull up some historical justification for it. I just wanted to tell him, dude it's a fucking fight, you can't read a book to predict the ending.
@Colin Cleveland I was on my way to buying a spear with a rubber tip and a nice German blunted steel Messer before this all kicked off. I'm so ready to get back to training.
@Colin Cleveland My gambeson is so thick I don't really have to worry about anything but my throat.
Spears a
Spears are just that good. People don't understand it...
A lot of armchair experts in the comments.
whowantsabighug Indeed. But all we can do is continue to try and educate those willing to learn, and try not to feed the trolls.
@funky booty cheeks doesn't he know there's a few frames where he's invincible in the roll?
I just think the sword wielder wasn't spining and fliping enough.
@@Nikos3000 amazing song choice
the sword weilder kept giving the spear wielder a distance advantage instead of closing the gap.silly video
You need to throw the pommel of both sword and buckler to end him rightly.
The guy with the sword and buckler needs to learn foot work. Or how to throw the pommel so as to end him rightly..
+Nikita Onassis SKALLAGRIIIIIIM!!!
+Nikita Onassis The funny thing is I bet it was a joke the first time around, too.
Joking right?
And you thought Fire Emblem was lying about the weapon triangle huh? XD
The other guy should have brough an axe:)!
Or with the latest games, a Bow. But definitely not a magical tome, that's just as bad as a sword.
Great, now i want to see an axe wielder against this spearman
dragon glass are useless - Stannis, Dragonstone
Not if you have a Dual Katana!
This clears up a good part of why dueling cultures retained the spear so long for individual combat rather than massed and bunched battles. (excluding phalanx and pike formations ofc.)
Virgin sword VS Chad spear
The spears advantage here comes from it's reach and the speed given by the leverage of wide two handed grip on a comparatively light weapon. Swords however by the late middle ages and renaissance had become relatively cheap and commonplace. They are also more versatile. You can carry one at almost all times with your hands free. Staffs/spears were not commonly carried except for cross country travel and guard duties. Swords can be used as a variety of ranges, indoors and also a fashionable item.
Hey my spear is very fashionable Good Sir 😉
Going up against pole arms must take skills and guts.
***** Try dinner table.
the best technique in doing so is to get inside the radius of the weapon.. thats why the only time the sword scored a point was when he charged the spearman after the parry
megadeth22885 Not the best but the only way. The only way to beat the pole arm is to close beyond the point. But doing so against a skilled spearman is an absolute nightmare.
of course.. because that spearman can just as easily pull the spear back and move that point back faster than you can close in.. jumping backwards while doing so.. going up against spearmen even with a sword and shield has always been a nightmare.. thats why where most people love to collect and study swords, i actually prefer polearms
besides.. if you need a weapon and you trained for years with a sword, and broke yours its unlikely youll be able to find or make a replacement so easily.. but a spear?.. grab a kitchen knife, break the handle off a broom and grab some duct tape
megadeth22885 Polearms are fantastic weapons there is no doubt. But its a little like comparing pistols and rifles. Swords were regularly carried for self defence and are therefore something you would have access to daily. Even the simple staff was normally carried when travelling. The sword is not the best tool for many jobs, but it is incredibly versatile, as well as a statement of fashion, wealth and power.
Let me tell you something right now, if I was the buckler dude I'd get the fuck outta dodge. That's a terrible matchup lol
+Sir Caco D. Mon Yep, without a doubt. In this situation, first best option would be to run. Second best option, throw the buckler at them and go open offhand, and hope the buckler can hurt them or create an opening. Going against spear is one of the very rare occasions where having the offhand empty is better than having a buckler. Still better to run though.
+Academy of Historical Fencing That's good thinking. With a free hand, you can try and grab the shaft to close in with the sword.
+Academy of Historical Fencing or having something like a longsword
+elgostine Longsword isn't great against spear. Half swording helps a little, but its still very difficult.
+Sir Caco D. Mon With your free hand you can hold the white flag
Spear OP please nerf xD
hey that's what I was going to type :P
Got there first :P
I'm so upset that these guys only do classes in england, if there was one near ny i would do it in a heartbeat :P
Basic Fencing will have to do :(
Agentleprichaun We are in England and Wales, but there are clubs and organisations all around the world, where are you?
I live in Carmel New York, in America. I have some experience in basic fencing as I said before, in case there are any requirements.
Agentleprichaun Few clubs require any kind of previous experience, though sport fencing will give you a good foundation in distance, timing and body mechanics. Go to the HEMA alliance forum, they are a collective of US HEMA clubs, they should be able to help you find a club nearby.
Thank you very much for your assistance. I've found a place quite close to me, I will definitely join. But what are the prerequisites to joining, (payment an related things)?
Agentleprichaun You will have to check with them as every club is different.
Don't take a sword to a spear fight. ;-)
If you have a sword and shield the spearman is a dead man lmao
@@marcelo-oc6rs No, not in the slightest. The Spearmen still has the reach advantage, and the second the swordsman lowers his guard a bit he's gonna get skewered.
The Rusted Blade but What if the swordsman has a gun? Don't take a Spears to a gun fight
@@eh2587 What if the spearman has a missile
Dont take a gun into a missile fight.
@@therustedshank9995 sword and shield is a generally more advantageous combination in a duel than just a lone spear . It's not a complete perfect advantage, but generally against a shield you want a shield yourself, they nullify a lot.
Love the captions between sequences, really helps me tune my observations and really learn something, thanks Nikos3000!
If I were forced to be a "gladiator" in an open arena, I'd take a spear over sword. They are a lot easier to use. However, if I were indoors, or in a tight area, I'd take a short stabbling weapon. The Romans did pretty good with their gladius, because they were so well protected they could press in and get close.
Hollywood has a lot to answer for. For thousands or years spears were king of the battlefield but in a few years of Hollywood movies 99% of people believe a spear in an inferior weapon and a swordsman is cool and wins. Not only that but you can just cut the head off the spear yeah? Nope. Amazing how these script writers knowing nothing can change perceptions and truth so absolutely. A lot of people believe Bruce Lee was a champion fighter rather than an actor. But at the end of the day it is up to us not to buy everything tinsel town sells but to research and test.
Even if you could cut the head off a spear, I mean... "Oh, no. The pointy metal bit is gone. Oh, well, I'll just club him to death with this staff."
@@immikeurnot i was just about to say that, take the spearhead out of a spear and you still have a quarterstaff, which can destroy static sword blocks and kill you even through armor because of the massive blunt force
I would like to point out that Bruce Lee was in fact a legitimate martial artist that found a way to make money off of it. His fighting in the movies was different than that in real life.
about a year late to nitpick but Bruce Lee is factually/literally a champion martial artist, and a fighter respected, witnessed, and spoken for by other legitimate career fighters of the time
@@sheogorath979 ... you generally tend to avoid static blocks in the first place.
The buckler is pretty much useless in this situation, it would be much better to just throw it to the opponent, use the free hand to grab the spear and the other hand to strike with the sword.
The Emperor Yep, you will see us give the exact same assessment throughout the comments. And if you check a more recent video on our club channel, you will see how much more effective the open hand is than the buckler in this particular scenario.
The Emperor I was thinking the exact same thing. Spear has far too much range and flexibility for a buckler to be effective, better to just control than try to protect.
Sick move, bro. But yeah, you`re right, this is not Dark Souls pvp and buckler is totally worthless.
Чё Бля HA! I'm a big dark souls fan. True tho
The Emperor How would a parrying dagger work in this case? It's pretty useful for trapping long and thin things.
While the spear has the clear advantage from what I have noticed it seems that aggression is the key to defeat a spearman. Notice that when the swordsman charges he has a better chance of breaching the spearmans attack range and he is left vulnerable. This would be an even more effective tactic if he were using a round shield or any other shield that offers more protection. I love this.
Agreed. The buckler is no good, he needs a larger shield (or full plate armor). This would make the fight fair, as a sword is really just a shorter spear where the staff is reduced to a hilt, making the blade longer (enabling cutting), forcing the weapon to be shorter as it would be too heavy otherwise. A sword is in my opinion never complete without a shield or armor.
The cultural significance of the sword I think comes from its sportsmanship. The many techniques and outcomes of a sword on sword fight is worthy an audience, as opposed to the rather straight forward nature of spear on spear, or mace on mace.
....I know this is a year old but if you come charging at me with a sword and I have a spear I WILL NOT just stand still I will continue to back up and maintain the distance along with walking you as hard as I can with the shaft. There’s a reason why spears where more commonly used
Without a large shield or decent armor you are not charging and succeeding against a competent Spearman. An ideal combination to try and deal with a Spearman is a sword and a scutum shield.
Funnily enough if a spearman had a shield as well they would be the one at a disadvantage because they sacrifice a lot of speed, maneuverability, strength, and range just to use a shield. If both parties wore armor then again a spear would be at a disadvantage because it would lack the striking power you can achieve with the pommel and cross guard on a sword. A spear was a peasant's weapon not just because it was easier to forge but also because it didn't need other gear to be used well. A sword benefits greatly from a shield just like a bow benefits greatly from horseback. A spear is just the best weapon on it's own, but it doesn't get many upgrades from pairing it with gear like armor and shields
now imagine the spearman having a falx at the hip
looks like alot of Butthurt Katanatards and Swordaboo's in the comments have witnessed the POWAAAA of the Spear master race.
yes thats right, you've been lied to, Hollywood has made you believe the Sword is the best weapon when in reality it's ALWAYS been inferior to a 5-8ft spear.
The Spear is
-Faster,
-Has way Higher penetration
-Has more wallop
-Is more stamina conservative
-Harder to counter/see coming.
-Has more reach
-More accurate
-More convenient in a combat formation
-way Easier to use
-is way cheaper.
-and can be thrown
The only 2 real advantages the sword has is it's more convenient to carry and is less likely to get stuck or disarmed,
and infact, you can just carry both, pull out your sword once the superior spear is lost.
A sword is like a pistol, a sidearm which is potentially a EDC or as a backup weapon.
But the Spear is like a Rifle, it's the *KING* of the battlefield, it always has been, since the
Origins of Paleolithic Man
(in fact, the Spear is the first weapon *E V E R*, i mean we had clubs and rocks before it but they're more Omni-purpose tools, a spear is solely for killing, as far as 500,000BC officially and predicted to have been used up to 5 million years ago we have been using spears and Man would have definitely have gone extinct without it, It Turned the almost Harmless Man into an Apex Predator capable of hunting ANYTHING from birds to whales and going on par with Lions and Bears especially in numbers.
Depicting Paleolithic man without a spear is like Depicting a Hermit crab without it's shell, it's a fundamentally essential part of its life and survival.
Infact we've been using it for so long, that we've actually EVOLVED genetically to be naturally good at using them, why do you think our Hand-eye coordination and ability to percisely manipulate and throw objects is so good compared to apes.)
to Modern day.
(what do you think an M16 with a Bayonet on it is?, and yes they do use them, in fact as recently as the Iraq war in 2004 A Royal army Battalion commenced a Bayonet charge and only had light losses.)
Great points....but remember...that bayonet charge was against Iraqis😂
Yet how was it the Romans with their gladius were able to dominate spear wielding tribes?
Especially if you have a horse
@@gerardjagroo teutoburg forest
Thats it i am geting a Spear, i am hyped, Jesus your a good salseman.
I think this is just the perfect content for me: Cool realistic fights with a very good rock n roll song and intelligent comments with slow motion on the scene. Thanks!
I gotta say as someone with admittedly very little knowledge on the techniques of these kind of weapons aside from Hollywood, this was educational as heck to me. I’ve heard some people say the spear is historically shown to be a better weapon and that most real knights used spears instead and it had me wondering why. I figured that the range is obviously a benefit but otherwise I figured it’s probably harder to block with and I’d imagine a skilled enough swordsman could probably get around it easily if they’re fast enough. But for one, I had the dumb realization “oh yeah, spears don’t HAVE to just stab. They slice too” and also rushing right past isn’t easy at all and that range REALLY gives an edge. It’s incredibly clear the sword user has a very obvious disadvantage and the spear clearly works as the better weapon... swords still cooler though imo
Another thing is that spears are economically speaking much more efficient. It only requires a long piece of wood and a small amount of pointy metal on the tip, while a sword requires a lot of resources and time. Also training someone to use a spear was much more easier than training someone to use a sword.
" Swords are still cooler" Speak for yourself you damn noble, the spear is the hero's weapon *tip my horsehead (I'm joking of course. Swords are neat, but I like spears better)
While doing HEMA for a little bit, in my duels with the spear I found that staying back and probing worked best. That way you can pin the spear with your sword and free hand and move in. This of course won't work all the time and most likely has an easy counter by the spear man if he catches onto what you're doing.
Also, this comment is just my personal strategy when facing a spear and is not meant to be a criticism of the swordsman in the video.
Also much harder if the apear has a long blade.
Curiously we had a re-enactor who used this style a few years ago, as a result of their group not ever aiming for head shots for safety due to open face helmets. It resulted in him taking a tonne of head shots as the buckler couldn't be moved quick enough. The principals of defence with a weapon are always to parry as far from the body for a greater arc of defence.
I love watching different weapons spar against each other. I think many people get caught up in learning to use a weapon against itself, and don't spend enough time practicing against other weapons.
Cool to be able to learn from watching you guys, and the music totally rocks!
This sort of mixed weapons sparring is what interests me in HEMA the most. Sometimes I think we spend too much time worrying about studying historical sources and instead should just focus on this sort of free sparring.
Are we recreating a historical martial art? Or are we evolving it?
Every club is different in their approach. For our students, they never see the original source material unless they choose to research it for themselves. All they get is our instruction for typically up to half a lesson, based on our research outside of class. We typically have at least half of our two sessions a week based around sparring. We consider it vital to fight under pressure on a regular basis, as without doing so, your understanding of timing and distance, and body dynamics will rarely develop.
HEMA is a wares chain...
Welp, that was pretty definitive. Spear pretty much wins against everything, doesn't it? You just can't compete with that reach and speed.
Spear might have some range, but let's see it's range against a bow. :)
Limely Not really comparable weapons, since their purposes are too different. A bow would completely and utterly fail at spear range. Any weapon will fail at bow range, that is until the archer runs out of arrows.
Then he better hope he's a good runner.
Alberto Sáez >both are using thrusting weapons
Nigga what? Swords have always been slashers as their primary role.
Alberto Sáez It appears so.
Like I said, slashing weapon. Stabbing is a function of all swords, but it's just not as good as the spear. Swords are definitely better for slashing than spears though.
Yep, accurate observations and very similar to how I explain it to students. Whilst there have been famous primary battlefield uses of the sword, it has been a secondary weapon throughout most of history. It is also as much a status symbol in many times as a weapon. It is also easily carried, universally useful against a range of weapons and opponents and agile and fast. A spear though for example, takes a fraction of training to use.
Awesome showcase of skills from both fighters
"Outweighed can be outplayed, but outreached is unbreached"
"Outweighed can be outplayed"
Really? imagine what would happen if someone with a Sword fought a fully armoured Knight with a Poleaxe, do you think that Knight could be "outplayed"
@@jaydenlobbe7911 Really, yes, if you think for a moment. What he's saying is that while you might be able to prevail against a stronger, heavier opponent through skill and speed it become difficult to impossible if their weapon is so long that you can't get close enough to hit them before they've killed you. Sword vs. Spear? Dagger vs. Rapier? Wakizashi vs. Naginata? If there aren't weird environmental conditions the one with the longer weapon has a very serious advantage.
I think that the most sensible to do in a real fight would be to throw away the rapier and run from the spear. Also the buckler is worthless in this situation. Maybe a bigger shield and a longsword would fight the spear more effectively.
***** you got me there m8
No, the most sensible to do is throw the rapier and shield to your opponent and run away to find another spear or just go hide. Throwing the shield to your opponent can delay their reaction a bit to give you advantage in running away :P
*****
So, are you saying i'm like that of the good fighter of old and strategist for seeing merit in throwing the shield before running away to see other means of defeating my opponent?
*****
no shit, anyone not blind can see the moon, and we can see sun as long as not straight at it.
*****
I know what you mean, i just having fun messing with you...since you seem too lazy to write a bit of a more common friendly explainations.
Anyway, i stand with my statement that that's the most sensible thing to do when facing a low odd like that, because the most sensible things doesn't need to be extraordinary, it just need to be sensible...unless you can show why it's actually not sensible to do :)
look at these experts in the comments...
Are they experts? I am not and i want to know bro.
@@everthon2457 no
@@peedrinker3575 thanks
Amazing stuff going on here, will you post more? Btw: What's the name of the song.
wonderful video. love this stuff.
why a buckler? get a bigger shield if the other guy has the range advantage.
Because in real life you fight with what you carry, its not a video game. This is a representation of what would happen if these two weapons met, a buckler was carried in daily life, a shield was not, and fights aren't always fair.
but by the time rapiers and bucklers were the norm, spears were not. If you bring a shield the size of small dinner plate to a spear fight you will lose. I know this is not a video game, but this is a simulation of something that would likely have not happened.
Joey's Singing Channel For a start this is not a rapier, it is a sidesword, a much earlier weapon. The spear was popular in this age. Additionally this fight resembles not a battlefield one but one in civilian life, hence unarmoured opponents. Spears were commonly carried by militias and town guards, bodyguards and in various other variations such as half pikes, partizans, and staffs. Many English staffs were metal capped and spiked making them a two hand spear.
A buckler is bad for a spear fight yes, but not many people realise that. This video displays it. It isn't about choosing your best weapon for a scenario. The buckler was commonly carried with the sidesword and just into the rapier period for self defence. The spear and variations could be found in a range of contexts, and has significant advantage over them, being a much more fearsome battlefield derived weapon. I have read a number of coroners reports that detail such an occasion, and some manuals, such as Meyer (1570) even show how to fight against a spear with the sort of sword shown here.
fair enough.
HEMA Instructor Nick Thomas Hello Nick... I asked this question in another video comment section but it seems even more appropriate here: i understand that a sword and buckler (perhaps a larger buckler) would fare well against spears (or pikes) in armoured/battlefield combat? didn't the spanish utlitize rodelero infantry for this reason (but they were weak against cavalry and later, firearms)?
Where can I learn to use a spear or sword or any of those lmao would be pretty cool to learn
I now understand why range is so important much better!
Good video!
You have been extremely patient with people who are aggressive in their posts. I commend you on that.
I would love to see other variations on other weapons vs spear or even quarter staff.
the superiority is shown. u switch from leg to head in half a second and a sword cant do shit like that or against it.
hey man.... i was wondering what song this was in the background, and who did it.... i like it.
Sounds like soundgarden but I'm also curious 👍
Sasquatch- What Have You Done
Some other good songs by Sasquatch: Knuckle Down, Money Man, Yetti, Pull Me Under, New Disguise
I like the beginner stuff, could you do a video of the spear vs sword and buckler where the spear man throws in combination rather than just one strike or thrust at a time ?
That thrust at 3:37 was precision. Well done!
My thoughts:
Spears pros: good in long and mid range(will always have a long reach advantage), easy to use.
cons: bad in close range and indoors.
Swords pros: good in close and mid range, most balanced
cons: depends on your skill level.
cons: gets shit on by polearms
the con of swords is they get destroyed by low skilled spearsmen
People who defend the sword as the ultimate weapon does not comprehend why Spears were used as a field weapon in China and Japan in its day, when Japan was united as one country by Oda Nobunaga it was not done with a sword, but with the spear a VERY long fucking spear mind you.
Wars in China fought between dynasties and warlords were not done with swords but with spears, it was only Europeans who thought little of the spear but those who adopted it used it to great extent.
An army with spears will defeat an army of swordsmen twice its size this is how tactical advanced the spear is and yes there are MANY battles that have been won exactly like this.
There is a very good reason why the spear has remained the ultimate melee weapon since mankind learned to walk on two feets and hold stuff in their hands.
Sword is shit a spear fighter would have stung you 3 times until you get closer
@@s_9089
Exactly, tercios used spears with guns and a few swordsmen to amazing effects.
It's amazing how quickly the spear can move from aiming at your feet to aiming at your face. Just a tiny movement of the hands.
Awesome fighting, awesome soundtrack
Spear is a far superior weapon if you had the choice
As long as i watched no chance for the swordsman. Its rush or die situation.
Substandard Gamer Kiba Or you know... you can just run away tiring him out.Spear is heavy
Omega Squad Veigar
Not really but spears can be thrown anyway. So do run.
Precisely, the swordsman dancing around in the spearman's kill zone is bound to get taken out. He needs to commit to an attack as soon as possible and hope to the Gawd Emperor he's faster than the spearman. Very dangerous situation to be in.
rush b cyka
@@326inminecraft spears aren't that heavy
what sources do you use to teach your students
my groups fights so diferently
Those lightning quick spear thrusts. Respect to Nick for getting any hits in this match.
that was cool anyway! I love this kind of stuff, I actually do modern fencing and I did medieval fencing and also kendo and kenjutsu. So nice work!
sword and buckler got DEMOLISHED, damn.
It's no coincidence that spears were the primary weapon of most infantry for thousands of years
However, they are decent against pikes. Not as good as longswords, though. But why do you even care if both combatants have armour. I think that's where rodeleros and the like truly shine.
Did not imagine, no chance for sword and buckler. Good video! :-)
Phenomenal soundtrack, by the way…saw C.O.C live quite a few years ago in a TINY venue down south…it remains one of the best shows I’ve seen.
There's a reason why armies carried spears instead of swords. Not only it is economical but the range advantage is ridiculous. I used to love the sword when I was young. But then I realized how awesome spears are.
I would have presumed that the fundamental strength of a spear is it's reach, and to counter that would be to get in close as fast as possible? The guys with the sword is playing straight into the spear's hands?
That also increases teh odds of being stabbed. And if you're two-handed the spear, tighten your grip and use the shaft to parry.
John Eusebio
But wouldn't closing the distance between the spearhead and the opponent render all but the shaft of the spear useless, and allow for a presumably quick take-down?
Gandlersfake The process of closing the distance is pretty dangerous and not recommended.
And the spear user can just pull the spear in, use the shaft to block (which the sword can't cut through easily), and can attack either with the blunt or sharp end by tightening his grip.
Understood, thanks!
John Eusebio "... closing the distance ... not recommended." except by every military treatise of the era ever written. Riiiiight.
I'm not a master swordsman, and i've never used a buckler, let alone against a spear, but i have to wonder whether it would have been better to try and bind with the sword on the outside of the spear's shaft, pushing it to the inside angle so that the line of thrust is directed away from you, then slide up the shaft with the buckler, holding the spear aside and downward, while you aim for the head with swing or more likely thrust. It looks like you were trying for something similar a few times, but it's hard to see exactly.
I think its all pretty cool guys keep it up. My question is what kind of jackets are you using for protection ?
spear op, please fix
GM needs to nerf that Spear.
sorry if this question seems stupid, but would a halberd be used in the same way as the spear? I noticed that even when you miss with the spear, the motion when you retract it would be able to hook or cut something on its way back if you had and ax head or a spike.
-i have no experience in this just a thought after watching the video. great video.
alain tonolete Mostly yes. Under many surviving systems all pole weapons to be used in two hands are taught alongside one another, such as staff, spear, halberd, partisan etc.
What song is playing in the background and who is it by?
Indeed and that is precisely it. The sword is shrouded in romantic appeal, when few people would say a spear is quite as 'sexy'. But as you say, when the spear dominated the battlefield for so many thousands of years (upto and including the bayoneted muskets). it's speaks volumes.
Pointy stick > sword
¿Could someone explain me the advantage of holding the spear in that position (0:51), with both thumbs facing each other?
I`m curious. Doesn`t open hand and sword work better against spear?
Why did the swordsman give the Spearman his range advantage???
Unless you sneak behind your oponent or teleports next to him, you start a fight from range.
Jonatas Silveira Baldo
True , but with a shield the size of a pea , I don't think he can do that
Too much open space.
what would you do?
the spearman is experienced, so rushing in head-on isn't an option cause he does that and gets speared. The spear has a shaft that's heavy enough that you can't just knock it out of the way without getting shtabbed and bucklers are shiet against spears.
Slow motion replay is great ...action is too fast to appreciate the movement at real speed.
Yes indeed, it is a completely different fight with a shield. But as I have said before, people didn't carry shields as a daily item of wear, but they did carry bucklers. So in this fight the choice would be sword and buckler or sword and open offhand.
Hey guys; I'm new to this channel.
Do you guys do videos covering the reasons and usage of the varies Stance / Posture per weapon?
I've never seen Spears being held with its head lowered like that and it really sparks my interest. I also want to say that the footings looks phenomenal!
♪Rainid♫ Thanks, but please do subscribe to the club channel I am posting on now. We have moved over to that so that both instructors can post to the channel, rather than have a personal account. We have recently started a series of video lessons that will include postures/guards. However I am not sure we will get onto spear for a while as it is not a core weapon of our club.
As to using low guards like that, I can answer that here. When you use a weapon with substantial reach advantage over your opponent, they are forced to seek an engagement with it and close with you. But if you keep the tip away from the, by raising the point for example (with something with strong cutting ability), or lowering it, they cannot engage, but you can still strike freely.
Some of the first things you typically learn in swordsmanship of many kinds is to keep the point towards the enemy to threaten them and keep them at distance. Even at advanced levels this frequently still applies. But you also learn that methods such as this can threaten even more, whilst robbing them of any chance of closing.
I think it would be more fair if the swordsman had a larger shield. It is just too easy for the spearman to just poke straight through with that tiny little shield on his hand.
+BlueonGoldZ Of course, but it's not supposed to be a fair fight, it's supposed to be a demonstration of the title subject.
Academy of Historical Fencing Pleases do a video where the swordsman has a larger shield.
The Spearman would still have an advantage, although they won't be able to just effortlessly destroy the Swordsman like we see in this vid
You always think that a man with a sword can easily close in on a spearman, but this guy seems to defend himself pretty well!
+GorrilaJohnson People always think that until they have actually tried it. When fighters are of equal skill the spear will win almost every time, and even when the swordsman is better than the spearman, the spear usually still has an advantage.
+Academy of Historical Fencing there are multiple occasions in the video where it would be useful for the spearman to hit or parry the closing swordsman with the butt of the spear, like he is trying in the last encounter, but often he can`t because he is grabbing the spear at the very end for more range. My question: Is it a viable strategy to sacrifice some range of the spear for this scenario? I mean you could carry a longer spear after all...
+Beowulf210290 With a short spear like this, no, because your lead arm would be in striking distance at wide measure. With a longer spear, yes. But it depends if you have a bottom spike or not. If it is just wood, they it isn't all that useful, it will be at close range where you can't get much momentum and the rest of the spear will make it unwieldy. Best thing a spear user could do when rushed into that distance is draw a knife/dagger, which he should almost always be carrying.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing in my mordhau experience the upper grip is only useful when you are surrounded and need to start swinging and blocking wildly, then its VERY effective. in a straight up fight where i dont need to worry about my flanks more range is preferable.
I train with a large array of weapons and the rapier and derivatives were in fact used with large bucklers also all the way up to substantial round shields (rotellas). There is no doubt that the large the buckler/shield the better it is for the swordsman, but in this fight we were representing a fight with a buckler of a size which was very common.
Is that a way hat you can learn to fight with a sword, a rapier, a sear, etc. like X fighting classes?
Some good Stoner Rock on this video.
just lose the buckler and grab the end of the spear brutha!!!! Having said that im sure either one of these guys could probably destroy me in a sword fight. Im sure this stuff is a lot easier said than done. Great choice in music. Fun video to watch.
steve bledsoe trust me, that's how you get killed. You don't want your wrists near any form of blade in combat. There's a reason people accidentally die from "cutting"
boi I can test it out with you. a thing can thrust between your leg and head repeatedly in half a second and u wanna grab it lmfao. I can just attack your main thigh vessel with spear and the moment you lean down to grab it your head's gone
Can anybody tell me the name of the song? It's really great
That is the core strategy of all sword vs polearm combat, attaining it is another story.
1. don't move forward when hit by spear. always move backward so spear user can have free hit forever.
2. if you made big mistake moving toward spear user. STOP, think then retreat.
3. always use dinner plate as a shield against dangerous pointy weapon with much longer reach.
4. Do not under any circumstances throw away your useless dinner plate and grab opponent's spear with your hand.
6. end him rightly.
8. Ensure you leave your defense wider open for a spear thrust
i say one is a hell of truth. one battle, i hit him and he stepped forward, i stabbed him in the heart. he dropped his sword and lay down on the floor to catch his breath
or just shoot him because we aren't barbarians
chinese said spear is king of weapon
These spear vs videos are really eye opening. You guys ever thought about uploading some basic spear lessons/tutorials like you have with other weapons on your page?
Thanks, yes we have and we'd love to, but time is always an issue. If we were to put any more instructional videos up anytime soon it would be rapier or longsword related as that is most helpful to our members and subscribers. We will also get some equipment review videos done too. I can't see us being able to do spear anytime soon. We rarely practice it in the club. The main reason for using it is to give our members experience against fighting a range of weapons.
What establishment are you guys with? After seeing this, I think that I'd like to come by someday and spar with you guys. I've been looking for someone who could possibly rival my techniques with weapons (particularly the sword, spear, bo staff, and nunchaku).
Maybe an actual shield rather than a buckler would have made this fight a little more balanced.
or just use a bow
It would have made the fight more balanced, the Spearman would have to put in a little more effort
Before even watching the video you know who must win if you played Fire Emblem. Spears/Lances beat swords. Swords beat axes. Axes beat Lances. This is just coming from a video game (A really fun one), but I would like to know if that is accurate.
Always hard to say 'one weapon beats another', more appropriate is 'one weapon has advantage over another', doesn't mean a better fighter couldn't win with the lesser weapon. The problem with that equation Is context. Do the combatants where armour? Do they have shields? and other questions. As a rule polearms to best swords, sword against axe a difficult one as again there should be things like shields involved. Axes beat Lances? Not generally no. So many generalisations here though as we're covering a vast scope of weaponry. You need to look at a specific time period and context to be able to consider the effectiveness of one over another.
HEMA Instructor Nick Thomas He's making these accusations based on the logic of a specific video game called Fire Emblem. He's joking (I hope) lol
ChamorruWarrior I was. Thanks for noticing, I thought everyone was getting dead serious with me. That is also fine though.
Number13teen Well it was a serious question in the first post. Does the fantasy of a game reflect the reality of life? It's a valid question.
HEMA Instructor Nick Thomas Actually removing all of the video game themed comments I have previously made: Is the weapon triangle stated before (Sword over Axe, Lance over Sword, Axe over Lance) Somewhat accurate to extent?
Nice to see you know your stuff good sir, If I may ask where are you guys based?
Good video,but who did the music?
A rare situation where I would rather have two rapiers.
Or a rapier + shortsword.
That's bullshit, Musahsi was only beaten by a stick so the spear is superior.
I swear bucklers are the stupidest defence tools ever. Useless.
Then you know nothing about bucklers. See the response to a comment below for more info. If it was useless, they would have fallen from favour very quickly.
HEMA Instructor Nick Thomas Well, to my untrained eye it looked like the guy with the buckler got his ass completely handed to him in 9/10 of the clashes in that video. Proof is in the pudding.
Dilandau88 He did, because he is against a spear. You should never form a conclusion because of one particular example anyway. What this video shows is that the spear dominates the sword and buckler. To take from this video that bucklers are therefore useless is to ignore all other evidence of the fact that they are not. Certain weapon combinations have a substantial advantage against certain other weapons in a particular setting and context, this is one of them.
Bucklers are for CIVILIAN defense, you don't carry around an assault rifle with you, it's overkill and way too bulky, you carry a pistol. Swords are similar to pistols easy to carry around, and if you want something more than a pistol you maybe can carry around a glock which is similar to a sword and buckler, but your certainly not going to carry around a shield or a spear for that matter.
A spear is a weapon for war, you can't walk around town with a spear (literally it would be illegal you'd get your ass thrown in jail, even back in the day) but you can walk around town with a sword and buckler quite easily and go about your business. Anything is better than nothing and a buckler does pretty well for what it does. But its like a modern firefight one guy has a glock (sword and buckler) and the other has an assault rifle with kevlar body armor and tons of spare clips, sure the guy with the glock can win but hes at a pretty big disadvantage.
^ well put
First of all, nice videos. I was wondering if you have any experience with how the longsword performs against sword and shield/sword and buckler. If there are video's, that would be great to watch!
Where did they get/order/make this rubber tip? I want one.
This one came from Revival in the US, Purpleheart armouries make something similar.