12a Rotary Race Engine VS Stock Turbo Rotary 13b - Which one is faster?
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- čas přidán 17. 03. 2021
- This is a battle you have all been wanting to see. Crazy bridgeport 12a vs a stock t2 13b. 8500 rpm of pure vintage NA goodness vs modern boost. Whats your pick??
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
I could listen to that bridgeport idle all day
Me too
Almost want to get a ring tone of this
You do, until you try and daily one in heavy traffic lol it's a beautiful note though
I have one with delorto 48mm carb. A blast in time attack.
Me too I so want one in my. 87 b 2000.
I'd take the 12a. In my biased opinion, because i've owned 4 of them lol
i wanna see a transmission video. Pulling Mouse's trans, and taking it apart to see what happened. loving the channel
I can do that!
I noticed that you’re stuck in 3rd gear. Same happened to us driving an endurance race. They are not worth rebuilding because more modern Miata transmissions with slight modifications will work better. I wound up installing a turbo tranny and made a custom dive shaft. Also, in road racing, using 15” wheels we don’t use 5th and 4th only got occasional duty so we installed a 4:77 diff. Now the car accelerates better and use all gears. Any comments are welcome.
For the record, very common problem with selectors wearing out, have fixed mine by filling the groove with weld and filing them flat again.
@@bruizey7319 sounds right good job
@@nickbetegh3649 I've never raced, but I would think you'd want to shift less for a faster time. Which do you prefer and why? If you don't mind me asking.
12a Bridgey is my weapon of choice. Well done!
Thanks man!!!
Haha, my old S1 RX7 used to get stuck in gear like yours did. It was actually easy to fix it was just a small plastic cup/bushing on the bottom of the gear shifter where it sits in the linkage/selector. It's a common issue they wear out easily. May not be the same with your's. But you might want to pull the shifter out and check out the mechanism.
Man, This channel is so down to earth and awesome to watch. Some of the best content on there. Cheers.
Alot closer than I anticipated!
With such a large arsenal of rx7s and engines in the shop have you had any consideration of doing a full PP na setup? That would be a super enjoyable series to watch
If I can convince a friend of mine to let me raid the super secret parts stash. That might just happen
Had the 13b turbo and port together and loved every min of it
Love the rays shirt! Been working there since i was 17.
Great video I like the comparison!
Thank you sir!!! Gonna need one of those fresh camo hats you got now. been wearing my gray one out haha
great video.miss my 86 and 88 would have loved my t2 motor in a 79-85
Great vid mate!
Hey you might be from my home town. Dad picked up a 1985 GSL-SE this weekend. I should be coming up to pick it up soon. Will have to pick you brain on these suckers :)
Cool video bro!
Awesome comparison video! Very well explained without any fluff or lame music....well done! BTW; what do you think is the best year trans for a street ported 12a? It's in my '72 Triumph Spitfire.
Thank you sir! How much RPM are you spinning? what year trans is in it currently?
gotta get that pinion swapped out with Kia sportage front diff.
Realy cool bro keep the good work
Thanks man!!!
i watch these all days as if im gonna ever have the money lol
Very cool comparison and video. I'd go for the white car, stock interior and better for day to day driving.
Haha!!! I could definitely agree. It's got its perks being quiet and smooth for sure
Brrrrahh Brrrahh Brrrrahh Brrrrrahh Brrrahh. I can listen to that all day. Thank you
Awesome video like always! But was wondering to turbo a 12a or 13b swap pros an cons video maybe??
I can make a video. But I have never done a turbo 12a myself
I'd be very interested in a video like that
Love both cars bro❤🙏🏼🙏🏼👍👍👍🔥
Love the video man. I think I’m definitely a full bridge kinda guy, loved the sound. Also where the hell do you find a repu? I’ve tried looking online but haven’t seen anything, how much do they even cost haha
They are super rare, and when you do find them they are rough. Rusty. I got mine from Louisiana 5 years ago
@@RADPotential not so rare in cali, but go for around 15-20,000$ in "fair" shape
That n/a top end!
Steering wheel mounted go-pro really shows the difference between rack and pinion and recirculating ball steering in a straight line :-D
Haha right though!!! ✅
Dudes making me wanna pick up a project rx for a little bit of a challenge
Get one man!! Great cars for the money! Easy to work on!!
SWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEET I can't wait for my mini to get out the body shop.. 300 or so hp n fully done up..I can't wait to make some vids of it all done
team all motor for sure, dont use boost to make power if you dont have to. but damn i love the sounds from the turbo car lol. could we get a clip of it running with no bov? i bet it would sound awesome.
i love more silent braps , or more stock is my preferance
Would also love to see a bridge porting tutorial vid. Did you balance and clearance your rotors for that build?
Nope. Just a bridge. I have a bridgeport porting video on an S5 FC. If you look back on the channel. It's a white t2
Thanks!
Wondering if you could post a short video of the sound of the fuel pump. I have an 85 12a gsl that seens to run out of fuel in the carb towards the end of 3rd gear. Previous owner put a new pump in but it doesnt sound like a normal pump whine. I can tap the key to start and hear the pump make more of a clicking noise for a second.
Are the factory pumps good enough for a bridgeport or do i need to change it?
Id switch to a rotary vein style. Not a pulse style like the oem one. If you have a holley their holley blue pump would work, if you have a weber try a Carter pump I think its the 4070
How much do you think a 12a rebuild would cost if I did the labor myself?
Nice cars !!
Hey man, I just got a 12a swapped miata. Your videos are a huge help, is there any way I could ask you some questions?
Yea man. Shoot me a message on Instagram
My fun car is a 1984 Mazda RX-7 GS (12A) Auto Trans 101 horses unmodified. I love this car. She needs pads & rotors (I might replace myself). Any suggestions?
I would find some stock replacements, or get a set of blank rotors from R1 concepts/some other aftermarket supplier. I would stick with street pads. no sense if its just a stock car. Be aware for the front rotors you will have to have new wheel bearings installed into those rotors if they do not come with the races installed.
Yes more rotary!!!!!
Let me get the link to that walk around on the 13b front sub frame
My driver is a stock 85 GSL-SE, 190,000 miles, still runs great. Only problem is my heater core started leaking. Bypassed it but huge mess on the pass. side floor. Have to figure out if I can pull the dash to r&r it.
Heck yea man!! I have done a heater core or 2 in my day and that's not fun!!
I love the silver one.
Would you consider a 12a housing and rotor hybrid with the Renesis large exhaust port plates build.¿
That could work. Custom header. Would probably make some cool noise
Hell yeah seen a first gen and been thinking about it ... but the engine was a running block a few months ago so I’m like would it be worth it? Since the car was running and running 12a can go up to 5k in VA and Cali .... hmmmmmmmmmmmmm only reason I ask is because I own an 8 And doing a build on the side to swop into the car that’s already a running block and trying to think of another decent project ..... it would be interesting .... do you have an Instagram?
If so my instagrams zuruikitsune_rx8
I might sound stupid in saying this but is it possible to turbo charge a bridge port 12a
Yep!!!
I think if gearing was equal. I think it would have been closer. In an sa/fb I personally go 12a. The classic 12a sound belongs with them.
Yea I agree. You can really tell the gearing differences. I'll work on that and come back to it. I'd love to do a stock 12a vs bridge 12a comparison soon
@@RADPotential That would be a good comparison.
Hey rad have you considered putting a holly efi sniper kit on anything. I thought I heard you mention it in one of your videos.
I am doing the install in a month. I have another car scheduled to come through stock 12a. 2 barrel sniper
Can't wait to watch that episode! Thanks for the response!
Is there any chance we'll see 12a turbo conversion content at some point? It would certainly be a larger project, but like you said, turbo 2 engines are becoming cost prohibitive and some of us just have a weird liking for the 12a
I could do a 12a turbo, but its a pretty simple idea. Just smaller exhaust manifold and run an efi setup for the 12a
@@RADPotential I'd love to see it. I've been sourcing fc parts to eventually go EFI, but the stumbling block continues to be finding an intake/throttle body setup that doesn't break the bank
12a's are becoming expensive too , in the long run a TII set up is worth it because 13 b parts are cheap af compared to 12A's
It's funny because both your cars would be faster if you swaped trans and rearends with each other. The turbo would benefit from longer gears, and the mouse could use the shorter gears.
Oh and I would take that bridgeport personally. It sounds dope.
Bridgeport baby, need those braps
Gotta put those mustang's tails between their legs at stoplights haha
1) Bridgeport idle
2) I don't care for that the turbo sounds. This is just a me thing, but I've always been more accustomed to superchargers...
3) hours/days/weekends/months for an engine swap to get the same horsepower as a Dremel would get you in a period of a day (if you know what you're doing).
Also just a me thing, the 12As are cooler because everybody swaps out to a 13B anymore. And I get it, it's done for the aftermarket support, but for me? I don't need 400+ hp. An FB RX7 is my DREAM car and dream cars are not exactly things you want to wreck. Bring that 12A up from the stock 108hp to the 200-250 ballpark via intake, exhaust and some porting and you have a car that will be PLENTY of fun while not being too inherently dangerous. Hell, even 140 would be plenty fun. My Escort ZX2 had 138hp for a 2400 pound car and that thing was FUN, RX7 would be even more fun just due to rear wheel drive. NOT DANGEROUS, but FUN! You don't need exorbitant power for the streets.
That sound A12A produces is intoxicating
Best stop light presence ever
Im sure you've already gone over this, but what exhaust setup is on the silver car?
It's a RB dual primary header to a y pipe into 2.5 inch. All the way to a 2.5 inch steel core packed muffler, 5 inch OD can. Much like the RB rotor muffler but super cheap. That's it.
@@RADPotential do the headers really change the sound that much? Im running the stock header 2.25 inch to a high flow cat, 2.5 all the way back to a steel packed magnaflow 4" round straight through. My car has way mellower tone than yours
That cat convertor is what's doing it.
Can you do a vid on timing. I have a 13B street port with a weber that I'm trying to tune and wonder how you set the timing and tune it.
Videos are already made!! Look up 12a and 13b electronic ignition setup
@@RADPotential okay, I'll have a look
@@RADPotential Okay, I'll have a look
Dude you can fit 235/45/13s easy in the rear on a 8 inch rim, I have bolt on flares on my s1 rx7 but no guard work done, nankang ar-1s semi slicks they are hell cheap! Get some, the grip is unreal!
How about the FD transmission on the 12A. Seems like a good initial combo for the RX-3 SP that I have
That would work. The pull style clutch is somewhat of a pain but not hard
@@RADPotential Would love to see you get a turbo set-up from a 1st gen. GSL (from OZ or 🗾) and see the whole process. I know someone that can make cold forged high or low compression rotors just let me know!
@GbbJunkie Yes! Still running trials and accumulating data though. Hot forged to start and then eventually moving to cold forged. Could be a game changer for all of us 12A afficinados.
@GbbJunkie people already make housings, just expect to pay upwards of 10,000$ on an engine.
Can you do a video on mixing a rx8 engine with a gsl-se engine. That combo is suppose to bw killer with more exhaust flow. Also pp port video, for example is it possible to semi pp port a 6 port 13b???
Sure. I can give some thoughts.
@@RADPotential all good! Im currently building a 84 gsl-se into a track day toy..wide body, gutted...etc. im in-between getting rid of the stock injection and adding a webber....always decisions! Keep up the RAD Work!💪
Thanks man!!!
That's a dream engine for my FB. Mazdatrix used a similar setup in their old RX8 racecar with a turbo. Put down consistent 450whp+ and like mid 300's for tq. But I want NA. It would be so sick.
Bridgeport. All the way. I think. In my opinion. If you're going to have an Rx7.
It should sound like that! 🇵🇷👍
Just awesome......
Not a rotary guy but that N/A one def looks like more fun. N/A always is a blast to drive. Can you boost the bridge port motor?
O yea. You can boost a ported engine all day!!
@@RADPotential I’m guessing it would destroy that other one after that? In the piston world the artificial displacement motor almost always wins for a lot less money but it seems not so with rotarys? Sounds like it’s running out of breath up top? But if you boost it can you rev it higher without hurting it? Is there anything you should do with a booster motor or is set up the same? Sorry for the ignorance but I know very little about killer Doritos.
In the rotary world, the more air you can get the better. that Bridgeport pulls much harder 7K RPM plus than the non ported smaller turbo engine. now if you put a bigger turbo on the stock engine, then yes, it will pull harder up top.
With boost its a balance of porting and turbo selection to achieve your power goal IMO, much like choosing a cam/heads for a piston engine to accompany a power adder. Going turbo lets you keep a small port(CAM) and make the power with extra boost. you can rev a boosted engine just as high as an NA engine if its balanced, and you have enough ignition to support the RPM.
@@RADPotential cool. Thanks
I’m a sucker for NA rotaries, just can’t beat their rev-happiness and instantaneous throttle response.
I’m slowly piecing together bits for a semi p-port NA 13B. Hoping to make a high-revving 180-200hp street engine at the end of it all that I can swap into my car, once my dead-stock 200K mile 12A konks out - whenever that happens.
haha that 12a wont quit. just dont ever take it apart.
@@RADPotential - Compression is still strong and all! Gotta love 12A’s. I’ll strip it down when compression starts fading and probably give it a thorough going-over and rebuild to be my backup engine, but not until then.
I will take the NA for that smooth smooth revving...
nice
motor bridgeport , color white😁
What if... You put a K03 turbo on a stock 12A? 🤔
Certainly you can reach 200-250bhp on it at a relatively low cost and get some quite good torque across a wide RPM range.
I would love to boost a 12a just to say I have done it. But maybe once I have EFI on this one lol
I’d take the T2 for the street, bridgy 12A for race as that’s what regs allow in most UK series!
Heck yea man!! It's crazy how close they are!!
Build a turbo one and have a recorded bridgeport idle sound that plays at stop lights :-)
Do you have a video of how to do a 13b turbo2 sawp on an fb??
I have a video on how to do a 13b swap. The efi and stuff will be additional
What state you guys from
NA all day my vote is for the bridge port 12a
Awesome rx7
thanks man!!
when my trans jammed and wouldnt get first or second it was just a roll pin sliding out of the selector fork
I wish you guys would provide the link to the video you "point to" instead of hiding it inside a MOBILE specific format.... I only watch CZcams via my Chromecast, and 98% of the time anyone says "link up here".... there's nothing, because it doesn't show anything, and if you don't put the same link in the description or comments, well, it's not there.
Now that my rant is over, it's a tough call, I love both... and seeing neither are a Series 2 and I can't just pick that, if it was my only car, I'd take the turbo 13B, if it was my 2nd car, I'd take the Bridge seeing as I miss my own Bridged 12A on Webber's, Series 2 GSL in Havana Brown....God damnit I should've NEVER sold it.... I'll never get
12a natural aspirated looks faster.
Is the white turbo car yours or did you borrow it?
It's a local friend's car. Just borrowing it for a few weeks.
@@RADPotential nice reminds me of one of mine being white and on BBs wheels
Those are BBS vert wheels cheap and sick haha!!! The SA look so good on them
@@RADPotential yeah nice set up. I have some 15x8 bbs rs reps, again cheap as haha
what state do you live in by any chance?
Tn
I want a set of those wheels so bad
Which ones?
I can imagine him shouting rotaryyyy poweeeerrrrrrrr
I'll do it in the next video I film
Bridge turbo yeah
What kind of gas mileage would you get on mouse?
20-23
@@RADPotential mpg? Is that mixed Highway/city?
That would be my average mixed driving. Pulls here and there, and some highway. Driving out to the Tail of the Dragon, I got closer to 25 solely highway. Worst I ever saw was 12, running it hard hard
Are you going to deals gap?
Unfortunately no, Justin is getting married that day
@@RADPotential bummer.
Im very lucky and happy to say my coworkers wife has a 1984 12a rx7 she got for 3200 and put 2000 in rims and tires. He wants to sell me her car, for cheap as a "fuck you" hahah. So im thinking trade out my mazda 3 2005.
The stock final drive ratio is unsuitable to the Bridgeported rx7. At least a 4.88 or higher will better fit power band of said high revving engine.
For sure!!! Changes are coming!!!
I see that XJ in the background
The ultimate daily driver. 2wd 4.0. Auto 300k miles
Need to do a 4w4 swap and a small lift. The lift gate doesn't go high enough
@@RADPotential that swap should be pretty easy. Doing lifts isn't bad but definitely depends on how much rust your fighting! Just make sure to PB blast the rear shack bolts a few days in advance. They were the biggest pain for me
Seems like the turbo was faster!
Should o let you friend drive his 13b and your drive your 12a to really see the different next to each other
Just hard to find a safe spot to do it. Not real keen on street racing
there is a saying, "people buy horse power but they drive torque "
i like both cars but i would prefer the turbo one as a daily driver
For sure!!! Ita definitely more comfortable to drive
"lets go break some transmissions"
-me, going off for some street pulls
in the ol' shitbox ya either grind 2nd, or the tires go SKRRRRT
I told ya it was gonna break lol
Fd first man
Ok I've decided my build. Bridgeport turbo lmaooooo
1:10 DINK
Grey just needs rear gears 476
I doubt you'll break a transmission with only 200 horsepower
ΟΚ.
my rx4 coupe i had in the 90s had a rx7 5spd which would get stuck in 3rd! they are junk
6:20
you can rev it out to 8 you know? they keep making power way past 9
Both of these engines aren't balanced so it's really hard on them to rev them that high
@@RADPotential i rev my fd to 10 all the time i’ve put 85000km on my 13b rew engine its a stock oem mazda crate motor im about to ditch the oem twins for a new garret ball bearing turbo
@@Phil2stroke terrible idea with an unbalanced/not side cut rotors motor and steel apex seals! Guaranteed when that motor comes out (and it will as goes with all FDs) the housings are going to have major chatter and I’d be willing to bet your rotors have smacked the end plates more than a time or two.
@@brianskotch2922 10 months later your right my FD did blow up it took 40 000km it broke a apex seal on the rear rotor no chatter marks though and only re rear rotor and rear housing was damaged the rear iron and mid plate was fine being rebuilt as we speak! im using machined RX8 rotors for the rx7 apex seals thats 128012km by the way! With a bit more than 40000km of hard abuse and honestly it was great! it kept running on one rotor and i got it home!
Racing beat strut tower... I want
Its a rare part to find lol.
@@RADPotential trade ya got a set of weber 36DCD's :D
Oooooo. Tough decision but nahhhhh...haha
@@RADPotential How about a carboard template of the racing beat strut tower mailed out :D
Screw a turbo motor, 6-port turbo the world!
I did that in my FC. It was a ripper!! Go check out those videos on the channel!!
@@RADPotential You’re the reason why I did mine and also Aaron Cake! I have videos on my channel showing it off so much fun. I don’t know how on earth you got away with it on 9:7:1 rotors! I think 6-port turbos are going to be the new thing soon!
Yea for sure. Just boost anything that is rotary. Parts are getting hard to get haha. 😪
I was only on waste gate and a baby turbo. So it wasn't a huge stress. And if you really think about it 9.7 :1 is still reasonably low compression on the grand scheme of things
na everyday bruv
It's the stop light presence. Flexing on muscle cars is fun haha
That 12a needs a 5.38 gear. And a turbo 2 trans.
Rx8 trans and a 4.88 would make it a ripper
@@RADPotential i guess 6 speed would be nicer
I had an 82 with the original diff go slightly above 155 mph always beating a friend 911 turbo wale tail. Now I have another 82 full Bridgeport with 4.44 and a torsen diff. Roads are too congested, fines too high so top speed does not matter much at present.
Re-gear the mouse and I bet it takes the turbo car everytime
I have a gslse axle I could stick under it for a quick test, hook it up no brakes and do the comparison again.... may do that when I do the swap to the new chassis.
13b turn up boost to 14
13b without turbo got 180 200
Biased, 12a
Mouse is slower and anyone can Bridgeport and slap new apex seals in
Somebody needs a trans rebuild lol
Just need a whole new one :)