How Divine Madness can Reveal Mystical Truths - Plato | Ficino | Bruno
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- čas přidán 28. 11. 2023
- Plato is perhaps the greatest philosopher of all time. He is renowned for his wide-ranging philosophical dialogues which laid the groundwork for all subsequent western philosophers. Despite his keen use of logic and argumentation, Plato also praises a form of ecstatic knowledge brought on by four forms of divine madness of mania. Indeed, he views this form of knowledge as superior to even philosophy itself in allowing the soul to grasp the eternal truth itself. What is this madness which leads to true genius? In this episode of Esoterica we explore Plato's conception of the 'mania' and the inheritance of this concept in Renaissance Hermetic philosophers such as Marsilio Ficino, Cornelius Agrippa in his famous Three Books of Occult Philosophy and Giordano Bruno.
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Recommended Readings
Plato: Complete Works - 978-0872203495
Dodds - The Greeks and the Irrational - 978-0520242302
Ustinova - Divine Mania: Alteration of Consciousness in Ancient Greece - 978-0367594268
Hanegraaf - The Platonic Frenzies in Ficino - www.academia.edu/1170518/The_...
Krallice - Diotima - krallice.bandcamp.com/album/d...
#philosophy #plato #mania
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Thank you for making this one. I enjoyed listening to it so much and hung on every word that it felt like it was an hour long. This divine Love, these " The frenzies" is our inheritance and I'm just blown away at this video.
Thank you again and please keep up the good work. Would you please consider doing a video on what the mystery schools taught specifically, sacred geometry, breathing techniques or mental state (like Love) to be worked with and use of psychedelics in the spiritual training process. For example, Moses and the burning bush 🔥 , as well as Paul walking in the desert on the road to damascus? 🙏🏽 🙏🏽
You're doing God's work here (universal mind, holy spirit, etc..)
❤️
I've been watching your videos for about 3 months now and after this video I will certainly start supporting what you're doing. Everyone else hould do the same as well. You're doing a great work here and please keep it up!
Sorry for the Re-upload, folks! But, when a massive corporation claims a 200 year old painting as somehow their copyright - it isn't and can't be, clearly fair use - it can threaten the whole channel. So, here we are. Thanks for all your support!
That's just weird. Well, a pox on them.
A curse upon their house! 🌠🕷🕸🏴☠
The inner workings of youtube copyrights is its own form of esotericism
So diviiine haven’t seen a video in months and just looked up the channel to see if Yeux were still producing content.
So grateful for this re-upload
🙏👁🙏
That's nor ideal for thou sire, but myself and many others possibly missed this first time and boy is it a good one, so alls good in the hood.
What a blessing that you're prepared to share your fantastic, well rounded knowledge like this.
Anyhoo, ownership is theft😂😂😂
Philosophy+mysticism+religion+science when seen in a combined/interdisciplinary feild you get magic.
Magic is controlling the energy within, mysticism is allowing the energy to control you. Prana/Chi exists. It is the energy of consciousness. The choice is yours what you do with it when all the dams break and it flows.
You get ART
@@marijasvetozarevic6911 the true craft
I have not watched this video yet, but as someone with “bipolar” (as this culture has it) I really appreciate your care for this topic. People do not know the beautiful catharsis of madness. It is wisdom on the brink of being lost. Thank you for keeping it alive.
We are legion.
We all lose our minds in the end. Don't fear this, plan on it. Excellent video Doc!
Accepting death is the beginning of life.
As a professional schizophrenia haver this topic is quite relevant to my "life".
I really appreciate the respect you've given this.
same here, watching this is like looking at a breakdown of how my psyche works. which is deeply needed lol. i see Humans & the World Archetypically and these philosophers are the only people I.ve ever heard to experience this.
@@zhalanteluster5681 yes. And dancers , artists musicians I guess / not all obvs 😁🎶 mind you some football players are like watching ballet
OCD and epileptic here, so I also relate to this. Alongside schizophrenia, both are linked to hyperreligiosity, which can be extreme in some cases (have you guys seen the movie Saint Maud?). The comments section of an esoteric video is an odd place to plead my innocence, but I don't obsess about religion... too much. Also, I try to stick to the strange and mystical side of the coin (fist bump Doctor Sledge) rather than the self flagellating, heavy guilt trip stuff.
I haven't even started the video yet, but I appreciate y'all.
People with schizophrenia are the must intelligent people. I encourage you to watch an episode of the underbelly episode on this topic with an individual who broke my soul
I had an acute episode of schizophrenia at 26. Still have it daily all day. But i see it as Divine Madness now that has brought me countless riches in spirit.
It’s Christmas & I’m spending it alone. I’m listening to this while I’m seated inside of a Chinese restaurant, and around 11:00, I think of my older brother.
My older brother is a paranoid schizophrenic, & the times I’d listen in on his manic rants, his hallucinations, and talks… he would go into such intricate rants. He’d create diagrams, puzzles, riddles. He’d create his own formulas, endlessly. He’d sometimes write on walls and our mirrors. When I’d have to clean up, I wouldn’t really pay attention to them. Just scattered numbers & letters. It’d fascinate me how he’d come up with these things, & what they all meant to him. He’d become heavily involved in various religions, he was even baptized as a Mormon (I still chuckle thinking about that.) He’d read into Taoism, introduced me to Aztec deities, Hebrew texts, just countless philosophies & multicultural beliefs … he was so smart. Even his rhyming, poetry, writing. You’d think he was a scholar. Unfortunately, he fell into a world of substance abuse & homelessness. His paranoia really prevented him from venturing into a route of education. No one quite understood his words. He was insane, to the world. To me, to our family, he was our scholar. Our poet. Our rapper, our philosopher.
Where is he now?
Ahh omg, I'm a philosophy student at uni and I'm kicking my feet in the air like a twelve-year-old rn. "Phaedrus" is my absolute favorite dialogue; love characterized as divine madness is staggeringly accurate, in my opinion. True love, supported by the virtue of σωφροσύνη, is passionate but delicate, maddening but holy, and "seeing the idea of beauty itself in another person" (which doesn't have to refer to their looks) is just the best description ever. It's great
If Plato's soul was so pure, why was the PHYSICAL beauty of male youths who still can't grow a beard so disturbingly important to him? I hated being "gazed upon" by men like him when I was an athletic gay adolescent.
@@joejohnson6327 I don't know about Symposium, but in Phaedrus phisicality is not the point - eros is romantic, sexual love, but Socrates advises to control oneself and practice temperance when it comes to desire, but the biggest focus lies on the mental experience of love.
The classical world was very obssessed with the male body, though, and pederasty was normalized, which is awful. I'm sorry that you went through objectification like that, gross af
@@joejohnson6327 Detaching the physical component of desire allows the mind to be carried away by it to wild places. Such lust for what beauty represents; an aspiration towards the ideal instead of something to be consumed. This is only possible once the carnal element is neutered from discussion. As stated by the other here, temperance is the key to this realisation. I am viscerally desirous of women, yet through the conquest of the lower lusts of the self, the eyes are open to higher forms of perception and reality.
This is my opinion as a similarly handsome athletic young man, though fiercely heterosexual, who is following the path of semen retention and celibacy. I am 19 and have withheld from all forms of ejaculation for almost 500 days. This has contributed to a markedly changed mentality on women, beauty and that of men. Beauty is a pure ideal, and those possessing it can - though certainly not always - represent a higher ascension towards ideal purity (ignoring the pollutants of a flawed soul). It is something to strive towards, a physical embodiment of a greater concept. But this is the difficult aspect, to perceive and approach such a representation of an ideal from an equally idyllic stance. You must remove the pollutant of lust in order to understand the meaning of true beauty, and how to actually comprehend, perceive, quantify such a meaning.
The physical beauty can be admired in ways other than physically.
The physical beauty must be admired in ways other than physically. This becomes apparent especially after long meditations and prolonged semen retention. Once you can consciously overcome this barrier, I promise you, you will understand what Dostoevsky meant when he said "beauty will save the world". Beauty is the most clear and apparent manifestation of the ideal. And it is ideals, romanticism, the aspiration to something higher, this is the purity of the divine. This is what Man must guide himself by - the overarching devotion to ideals - and this is what will save the world.
Do not confuse this.
They way you put it down...is staggeringly accurate describes the way I feel about one woman. She is rather "voluptuous" yet I deem her to be the most beautiful being in the world. And bring next to her was...sigh...was the only thing ever to cherish. Yet I am not and cannot be with her, due to circumstances of sorts. Sorry, not to pour out my heart and sorrows to you, it's just that your statement, it's like it gives me courage to be, many people though I was a fool, with some issues, who knows what they meant. I secretly believed they were may be a touch jealous. But anyway. Thank you for having posted that, it gave me strength ( although brought on those sad droplets).
Take care now...
@@sergiysavchenko-ud5uy aww, I hope everything works out for you! Plato (through Socrates) described the yearning of love as the soul growing wings - it's painful but beautiful and enriching. I really recommend you read "Phaedrus", it made me understand myself more, too
Came to revisit Plato, stayed for the prog black metal.
I can't stand metal music, but some of my favorite humans live by it.
Paz y luz 💫
Ancient teachings from Tinnitus of Thalmus.
Well done! We're all mad here, to some degree. Especially those that strive to be "normal" or suffer from herd instinct. They are truly doomed.
Devine madness is the one thing I will contest in this era is a true and enlightening gift while simultaneously being a wretched curse. To be blessed is to be shunned when one’s mind is opened to universal truths. A man gifted with divine madness is truly stranded ALONE on an island when surrounded by men who will consider nothing but the logic indoctrinated by the institutions they so cherish. Even to find a human willing to listen with an open heart that may not fathom the universes teachings is outside the comfort zone. To stumble on such a meeting of like minds in secret would be my only wish. Connecting with the “Gods” disconnected me from my family and peers. Yet this madness they perceive as negative showed me the madness of the masses. Patterns and geometry are how the universe tries to connect with common man. Thank you for giving insight it does give me starting points to know now I’m blessed not crazy.
I feel like I can actually weigh in here. I've studied somatics for 5 years, which is the study of the mind body connection. So my primary focus is Contact Improvisation dance, but part of it is also learning Tantra, learning about the nervous system, especially the vagus nerve, and our senses of interoception, proprioception and gravity-perception (weight, momentum etc). Just learning this stuff has actually rivaled my use of psychedelics and honestly, I haven't felt the need to shroom in years because, although shrooms were very therapeutic, I've found movement to be much more so.
And it doesn't stop there--yes, I've had some pretty wild extra-sensory stuff happen to me through dance, or tantra. Now, here's the crossover. There was a phenomenal book released around 2020 called The Immortality Key. The author finds pretty extensive evidence that not only was a hallucinogen served at Elusis and the feasts of Bacchus--more than likely the Eucharist of Christ was a hallucinogenic drink. AND IT DOESN'T END THERE! People of the same time period were really, really into ecstatic dance, to the point where the Library of Alexandria actually had a dance department.
These things were all deeply, deeply interlinked. There's a reason why it says "The Body is the Temple" in the bible. It really truly is. It is your access point to something much greater.
I agree now with the temple part, when intoxicated I literally cannot hear my soul like it's being suppressed. Then when I'm sober Its like there's intense sorrow felt for putting myself through low energy activities all while being guided by something to stop my bad habits and that's what I call my soul.
this information is just so beautifully conforming to my spirit its so therapeutic to just sit back and embrace the fact that my soul knew this the whole time..
@@esotericdarkangel4971 I'd love to know more!
"How divine madness can reveal mystical truths " .. explains my ( and apparently other people's) last 3 years . # nailed it
THISSSS Lmao. It's funny...but in a literal way...a Survival way lol.... Thank you so much for this comment king, you've summed this experience up Very well for many of us lol
All I saw was satanic madness revealing mundane truths.
Let Justice prevail on sharing knowledge without the tentacles of corporation attempting to drag the ship of learning into its abyss. That said, a return to an early beginning is quite edifying and inspiring in breathing new life into fundamental learning. 📚🎉📖 🌌 🚀🌟
It's bothering me the more I think about it. Every dystopian novel comes to mind. Keep the masses poor and ignorant.
Re-reading Jaynes Bicameral Mind and this is a topic of interest for me and really relates to it.
“The free thinking of one generation is the common sense of the next”
I think logic, intellect and learning can support intuition if applied correctly. Theory/practice has been my means of striving for enlightenment and has worked thus far to improve my life and happiness.
I awoke spiritually in the 1980s, my mid and early 30s. Don't ask me why or how, I certainly am not worthy of such experiences. A door opened up. I walked through.
I am not an intellectual this lifetime, though, I have studied a great deal on my own. I suspect that you don't need an intellectual understanding of mystical experiences if you have enough understanding to control the terrors of experiencing such power in your soul. It was terrifying, but my curiosity got the best of me. In the end, I am glad I had the courage to live this life.
It comforts me that so many wise men have found the same doors I have.
Love of God, the ONE, is a kind of madness, it is a good madness but it may propel you to places you would not willing to go if you had complete reasoning control of your soul.
I love Bruno's Heroic Frenzies. He understands.
Man. What a great episode. ❤ thank you so much for not neglecting us practicioners. Ever since my time in PRS I have taught philosophy, magic and math are interrelated. Yet academia only has space for math and philosophy. Thank you for talking and covering those who also use the arts. ❤❤❤much love. Thanks for what you do.
It's a joke among my friends that magicians made up reasoning logic and philosophy for those that had no experience.
Funny - that sentence obeys the laws of logic, strikes them as reasonable and is an (ironically) philosophic statement
Equally many logicians have experienced madness trying to reason everything so both paths given enough effort lead to madness of some sort ;) Logically that would mean human brains aren't logical nor reasonable? The mystics win?
I think most logicians well understand the limits of logic these days. Logical positivism hasn't been a thing in nearly 100 years.
The lens through which I look at this divine madness stuff is with a mix of Eastern philosophy I've picked up over the past year. Bankei's Unborn, Lao Tzu's Dao... some things only really reveal themselves when one opens oneself to paradox, seeming paradox at least. There's a great filter where many stop dead in their tracks muttering to themselves that they must be mad.
The difference in personality from then to now is palpable. I still love your old content, but I love how much more of your personality shines through in your new videos.
Keep up the great work, Dr. Sledge!
I’m drinking this stuff up. Grew up Southern Baptist. Man what a trip these last few decades
I've wanted a deep dive into Platonic mania, given my history of psychosis
I am by now beyond words. It's as if you d give all of us free lectures on Masterclass level and on doctorate intensity whilst, through the reference to black metal, being wholesome a f . How...why!! But any ways ..thank you so much. By far one of the most important channels out here
Xoxo
What a great episode!
Dope channel, great work doc!
Finally another video on Plato!
Bravo! One of your best! Thank you.
Excellent depth and breadth... as always.
Another brilliant video. Thankyou for the work you do Dr Sledge
One of my favourite topics you’ve ever touched on, very happy to rewatch :) excellent video Dr Sledge
Really enjoyed this! Outstanding dive into mysticism, Philosophy and Logic! 👏🏼
Great episode! Loved the Krallice plug amidst this encouragement of investigation into the sublime truths and occult philosophy.
I was just thinking about this concept. Synchronistic re-upload. Many thanks!
Hi 👋 My name Evanna. I am 37yo in Australia. I have always loved mathematics. Ancient Architecture and Geometry are my special interests. I have had an interesting 2 weeks... I had chronic CTS , causing severe pain in my hands. I am profoundly grateful to have healed, however learned healing is not a straight line. I experienced Kundalini awakening and my nervous system was "re-wired." This sent me insane for a few days. I was fluctuating between elation and pure enragement. I took up hula-hoop "magic" / dancing again, wrote poetry and practiced singing. I am learning suppressed energy can become dangerous, yet it would be irresponsible to act on every primitive urge to use it. I'm not sure this even makes sense. I just wanted to say this video came at a perfect time for me. I have been a subscriber for some time and really appreciate the way you carefully yet generously deliver this information. 🙏 ❤
Your suppressed energy being dangerous diatribe, I couldn't agree more. Its the classic ways we make our shadows what they are.
Thank you for the re-upload, otherwise this would never have popped up in my feed
Just discovered your channel and wow, what an absolute gem! thank you for these great videos.
Very insightful! Thanks for “connecting the dots.”
love you work!
This channel is always great
I’m glad you had to republish this. I didn’t watch the first one, and would not have listened to this material if it hadn’t popped into my feed today. You have given me at least five different rabbit holes to run down. Thank you.
Wonderful channel. Thank you.
I thank you so much. All good blessings to you
I love this presentation. Thank you so much for your work. Wishing the best of everything to you and yours.
That Krallice track is quite invigorating ❤
Total banger of an episode Dr. Sledge 🎉
I love both those albums!
Fascinating, Thankyou. 😎🎶
Incredicble work, Dr. Justin Sledge.
No wonder I love Plato.
Thank you, very enlightening.
This is indeed remarkably similar to my own personal experiences and I get the impression Im not alone in this. Thanks for providing grounded coherent insight as always, also the music recommendations:)
I was thinking so deeply about Divine Madness before you reuploaded this 😂. Life is strange
SAME.
Hello to all from the Damien Echols following clan, some of whom Ive had the pleasure of meeting. So many people at our gathering agreed that this has been a channel we have been following and recommend to others.
Don't know if it's possible but I'd enjoy being in contact with Damien!
@@TheEsotericaChannel he has a patreon and might be able to be reached via that platform. If he holds a livestream soon one of us can try to post to his comment thread.
I have reached out to some people connected to him but I am unsure how quickly the message may be conveyed. Someone else in the group with stronger connections may see this and push it along....
If any is on Damien's patreon and can make the connection I'd be grateful!
I’m reading/translating Plato at school right now so this is great!
worth rewatching, great episode, very valuable information to keep in mind when studying the occult or philosophy, especially in an age so saturated with irony and cynicism
Your content is amazing, truly interesting
Wow! This is exactly the type of stuff I’m studying right now. 🙏
Love this!! Thanks for this thoughtful and rigorous analysis. I had never heard of Plato’s writing on mania. Also I really appreciate your thoughtfulness about neurodivergence!
Such an interesting coincidence. i was just in Rome, visited the Campo di Fiori where the statute of Bruno, shown itv stands, in memory to this brilliant man who died tied to a stick in a fire on this very place. ❤🔥 ..I sure hope he does indeed rest in peace while we sit here and enjoy his thesis!
I wonder if Plato thought of ecstatic states as being necessarily in conflict with rational argument and reason. It's been a long time since I've read the relevant dialogues. We tend to take it for granted that the two are incompatible or in competition with each other. It seems to me this is an unexamined assumption of our own age. Reason and ecstatic ways of knowing complement each other and inform each other. It seems to me Plato knew this well.
To my surprise even such a rationalist-scientist as Bertrand Russel was respectful of mysticism (of Plotinus in particular), so I think that not everything is lost there)))
Your comment prompted me to revisit a bit Russell's philosophical autobiography, My Philosophical Development -- specifically the essay it includes by Alan Wood (not to be confused with Allen W. Wood).
Towards the end of his life Russell was also a passionate critic of the Warren Report.
Thanks for the Krallice recommendation!
i practice every day to your videos, you're great
The problem is modernism. They don’t want to listen to us who have been initiated by unexplainable experience(s). They are too proud. God - thou architect, bless the man who produced this video.
You seem super humble.
@@joejohnson6327 I love you ❤️
I am so GRATEFUL to have found this today as I travel back to see family for the holidays & have spent the last year feeling in have lost my mind & it has been perfectly described as the last of the four manias. It came out of the blue one year ago & has tormented me almost every waking second since! I am not crazy. I am being guided. 🙏
Thanks for the reassurance that I wasn’t going crazy during my ascension journey. It was divine madness indeed! Cheers brother!
Thank you very much for this overview. I see some similarities in an experience I have gone through and it offers some consolation that thousands of years ago, respected people described something very alike. I would of course be keen and happy to help reconstruct how such kind of divine madness could have occurred, but I have, alas, not been able to record it all when it happened. Thank you again for your content!
Thank you.
Thanks for the re-upload; I wouldn't have stumbled across this excellent channel otherwise. I'm a (very amateur) writer of fantasy fiction, and this is exactly the sort of material I've been looking for.
Thank you very much!
very deep value to this video for those who can read between the lines.
Well said!
Krallice! I got into that band after studying the symposium in college!
quality content as always
Im bipolar myself and manic episode opened my mind to mysticism. This is certainly no joke. Awesome video!
Being influenced by both sides at the same time is where the Divine troubles of perception begin.
Awesomeness!!!!!
Thank you for making this one. I enjoyed listening to it so much and hung on every word that it felt like it was an hour long. This divine Love, these " The frenzies" is our inheritance and I'm just blown away at this video.
Thank you again and please keep up the good work. Would you please consider doing a video on what the mystery schools taught specifically, sacred geometry, breathing techniques or mental state (like Love) to be worked with and use of psychedelics in the spiritual training process. For example, Moses and the burning bush 🔥 , as well as Paul walking in the desert on the road to damascus? 🙏🏽 🙏🏽
You're doing God's work here (universal mind, holy spirit, etc..)
❤️
Another great one - thanks for that!
Obviously, what we find here, in Plato, is the root/seed of that salvific knowledge informing later Gnosticism in its countless iterations.
Thanks for the topic. This one is a pet project of mine.
I got 5 minutes into this and knew something was off. This isn’t a criticism at all, your work has been fantastic from the start, but you really have developed in confidence and delivery in your videos. You’re an absolute pro. Even though this was an reupload, I really appreciated it. Thank you
Thanks!
Much appreciated
Savonarola, ‘the firebrand’. Excellent. 🥁
Sorry to hear about the copyright nonsense...but I'm glad to see this one again, as it's been a while, and is a very worthy topic to be revisiting!
I wonder if an interesting conversation might yet be had on how a parallel set of concepts arises in Irish medieval thought, particularly in narratives like Buile Shuibhne, often translated as the "Madness" or "Frenzy of Suibhne," a king who essentially gets PTSD (and the relevance of this to modern people with PTSD has been written about by my friend Erynn Rowan Laurie), and who then eventually becomes a poet as a result of his condition, and dies in the company of a saint in an odd situation (his original madness, to an extent, is caused by a saint's curse as well).
At some future date, I'd love to have some scholars of Hermeticism and other ancient/late antique/medieval philosophical ideas that are of a more esoteric bent get together with scholars of medieval Irish and see what might come of it in terms of cross-pollination. Some of the works drawing on apocrypha in Irish culture are just phenomenal in terms of their content...I think you'd have a field day with In Tenga Bithnua, for example. ;)
Dude! Diotima is amazing, it has no off switch! Absolutely off the chain.Thank you very much for that, any other records you wanna recommend you just fire away!
thank you
I experienced the mannia and the frenzies all in one afternoon and evening. Seeking and diving deeply into the unknown and most possibly the unreal, reality raised its beautiful head and I was baptized in living waters in the afternoon and than transferred to an eternal seat in view of the throne of the living God that evening. Alas, asked by a couple of Kingdom Preists?, to return to earth, It was my decision, I didn’t want to. They offered a scenario that might comfort me more, and Than I felt totally embarrassed that I was even contemplating saying no. So I quickly said yes, was taken to a future event, and than returned to my earthly body. I did not know my mission, but over the past 50 years it’s all fallen into place and is going very well, especially for We the People. We’re very near the end of tribulation, which I believe started when She lost in 2016. Great videos. Thank you.
Crazy video!
Appreciate the Krallice recommendation 🤘🏽 madness leads us all to black metal eventually.
salam from Persian enjoying your work my Brother
I really need to buy Agrippa's books. Buddy of mine owns them, he also loves Bruno's work as well.
The world is divine Madness that's why the world is the way it is people need to wake up to the fact that the news is old it's what we do today that creates the news tomorrow we need more good people in the world who don't want to make people go mad
I really need to start recording my dreams more often and regularly. I have moments where I feel myself elevated, opposite to the "falling" sensation when falling asleep. Usually accompanied by gods, voices, and symbolism that I've kept some recollection of in my own personal book of shadows. Is it simply dream nonsense, daemonic possession, or divine madness?
Idk buts its cool
yesss the krallice shoutout🤘curious to know if i’ve listened to encenathrakh as well
7:01 thank you i need to hear that ive been able to shake the ever looming threat of death and thought of the after life. Curiousoty, fear and hope is what i feel
Speaking my language. Thank you
14:31 a good point about purofication is that the process is physical, only so long as it takes a person to comprehend the process and nature of purity. From then, it is a singularly mental purifying, only limited by a persons irrational urges to create physical correspondence.
Def excited to watch this one (later when I have time to really enjoy and pay attention)!
I've always felt there was a thin line between being "mad" and just "oriented differently"
Or how some have said it, knowing so much that you become out-of-touch
Knowing the depth of corruption of wildwestern society can be quite the torment.
I studied with Sayre at Notre Dame. He caught some grief from his peers when he started talking about the 7th letter. He was also a forerunner to early AI philosophy.