Pre-AI Nikkor Shopper's Guide
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
- Given a choice, is there a reason to prefer a pre-AI Nikkor over an AI or AIS series? Occasionally, yes. Here's what you need to know.
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When Nikon announced the "AI Update," I had ALL of my Nikkor lenses upgraded. It was the best investment made, since I (probably) couldn't afford "Real AI" lenses in the future. The "usual suspects": 24mm f/2.8, 35mm f/2, 55mm f/3.5 Micro-, 85mm f/1.8, 80-200, f/4.5 Auto Nikkors.
I always enjoy your teaching sessions. I have older Nikon bodies and lenses and love them. Thanks
RS. Canada
Hope this is helpful in this discussion about early Nikkors.
Nikkor lenses of that era had engraved letters to indicate the optical design formula. These letters were codes indicating the number of elements in each lens.
U = Uns = 1 element
B = Bini = 2 elements
T = Tres = 3 elements
Q = Quatuor = 4 elements
P = Pente = 5 elements
H = Hex = 6 elements
S = Septem = 7 elements
O = Octo = 8 elements
N = Novem = 9 elements
D = Dece = 10 elements
yes, in fact that was the topic of this channel's very first video: czcams.com/video/Bzfw8kY84ro/video.html
So many beautiful lenses. Thank you
Another well-done video! Thanks.
I love the 50/1.4 SC, picked one up at an auction a couple of years ago with the factory AI conversion for $50. Fantastic results with Ektar.
Great video Brian. Don't forget about the Nikkor-UD Auto 20mm f3.5. Recently snagged a good deal as the lone bidder. Very dense, great weight and balance in the hands; and awesome rendering straight out of camera - pairs nicely with my D3 (a pre COVID steal). It'd been AI'd from a reputable source.
Hi Brian, thank you very much! I purchased a Nikkor-O.C 2.0/35mm in near mint condition from Japan. I‘m looking forward to the delivery. It is a non-AI version, but that‘s fine, because for my Nikon Z6 I have the Novoflex adapter, which accepts non-AI versions as well and the Nikon FT2. Best wishes, have a nice day! Ralf
awesome channel.. I sold my D7000 a year or so back.. regretted it immediately.. I kept some of my old lenses and I use them with a convertor. I'm going to have to buy another D7000 and some nice lenses in this crash. I miss that camera
Thanks Brian!, good info and that 135 you have looks almost brand new.
The Nikkor-Q.C 135/3.5 is one of the best classic lens deals around. I think I paid maybe thirty or forty dollars for that one.
@@BriansPhotoShow I have the regular 135 2.5 nikkor Q and use it on my D700. It is an amazing lens
A number of years ago you could readily find conversion rings for old pre-AI glass. It's definitely more difficult to find those rings today. Nice video 👍😁.
Yes, I think a proper AI conversion definitely adds value today.
Two comments. First, I have the QC 135mm f/2.8 and it's very sharp even wide open, though it has noticeable SA and CA wide open. Agree on the big and heavy part. Secondly, I found the S 50mm f/1.4 soft. The 50mm f/2 beats it all the way up to f/2.8 in sharpness. Wide open it's just a big instagram filter. I prefer the f/2 and keep the f/1.4 for the really artistic shots.
hi Brian great video.
my favourite MF Nikkors are the 28 f2.8 ais , 55 f2.8 Micro, and 180 f2.8 gold ring ais.
Those are certainly some fine lenses.
I had hoped you would cover long tele primes. Great video. Thx
I would if I could but the 135 is the longest NAI lens I own.
Just found your channel,👍. I'll take that undesirable O 35 off your hands, it would look nice next to my OC.
I have a 50mm 1.4 sc ai converted from Japan now mounted on my all black immaculate Nikkormat ft2. Perfect.
That's certainly a nice combination.
Nice review! Tip: don’t place your thorium lens in the sun, the heat can cause issues with the grease. You can use a LED lamp from IKEA like the Jenso to de-yellow, much safer.
I did some testing of N.C. 2.8/24 on a Sony a7r2
Lens is incredibly sharp in some central area, dropping toward edges
There are also noticeable CA
Great flare resistance
Thus I believe it is better suits b&w film
I converted a 50mm f2 auto H to use on my D700 , and holy shit the rendering. It's been referred to as the japanese summicron and I see why. Love my 50 f2 nikkor
hello Chris , what type of modification did you made ? AI conversion ? I have also a D700 , what type of setting are you using with it ; manual , aperture priority ? thanks for your help . danial from france
@@danielbdbe I basically took off the aperture ring and cut it down enough that it would fit with the Ai lever. I use it in manual, or aperture priority. It will meter as center weighted but if you go into the settings you can set the center weighted as average or 12%.. etc
Chris Emerick thanks Chris for your reply. I bought also a 50mm f/2 auto Nikkor HC . I found on the web the modification by filing the ring . But where to find the exact position of the ridge compare to the aperture ring or the metal prong ? Daniel from france
Ezra McCampbell hello Ezra could tu please let me know where did you buy such factory ring conversion ? Thanks Daniel from France
My 24 mm was a favorite lens when it was new, a pre AI, scalloped version. When I recently went to full frame digital, I mounted it on my D750,and found dreadful flare problems. My shooting style has probably changed since I was a kid and I must not have shot so much 'backlight' in those days. The lens is optically clean and clear and images that do not suffer from flare are sharp and clean. Apparently the coating on these early models was a bit inferior. The optical formula for the 24mm has never been changed and I've since bpught a used 24mm autofocus that has no flare issues. If you are shopping for a 24, you might avoid an early version. My serial number is No. 283105, but when the coating was improved is anyone's guess. It would be interesting to know if there are similar flare issues with other pre-AI lenses or whether this is specific to the 24.
Sounds like you had a single-coated pre-AI version. The multi-coated pre-AI versions are marked with a "C" after the "N" around the front element.
I got a 5.8Cm f1.4 along with a battered Nikon F body. (So I didn't pay extra for it.)
It's a basket of aberrations, but on an APSC digital body it's equivalent to an 87mm lens, and a GREAT old-fashioned portrait lens.
Sharpish in the middle, softish everyplace else, it tends to de-emphasize skin imperfections.
something to note, I recently got a small collection of nikkor lenses with a Nikkormat camera. all pre-ai lenses. they all work great with an adapter on my Sony mirrorless A7R3.
Lucky fish! I bought a used Nikkormat EL in 1978 and built my collection of pre-ai lenses. Now I use these lenses on a Fujifilm -X with adapter. The couple of AIs I own I also use on my Nikon D700
I own a single-coated, pre-AI 55mm f/1.2 that had a pretty good workbench conversion done to it. Wide open it's still sharp in the middle albeit very hazy (sometimes Dehaze in Lightroom will help this, but not always), and stopped down to f/2 or slower it's one of the sharpest lenses I've ever used. Bokeh is pleasant, but not exceptional (although wide open anything out of focus is *really* out of focus), and all around it's one of my favorite lenses. I had hoped for a multicoated version...but for $125 I could not say no....
I'm looking to get one of these lenses converted to AI to use with my fm3a, is there a certain version you'd recommend?
@@EM-ve9bh Since this comment, I have purchased a 50mm f/1.2 AI-s. I have found it to be superior in almost every way to the older 55mm (rounder aperture, more flare resistant, lighter & smaller, slightly sharper at wide apertures), and the prices for them are extremely reasonable ($400 USD or less on eBay). Unless you particularly need a 55mm for some reason, I'd suggest spending a bit more and getting its newer equivalent instead.
Hope this helps.
Some pre AI 28mm 2.0 can include a radioactive lens, and are getting pretty yellow with time.
Pre Ai are the Vietnam War photojournalist lenses of choice.
can i convert my pre-AI 105 to an AI is it difficult or
subbed!
your video is very informative. thanks!! Based on few videos i watched, i understood that if we have non-AI lens mounted (via a speedbooster) on mirrorless camera like Panasonic GH5, we will not be able to read the aperture change in the viewfinder. Is that correct?
I have no idea. I don't use mirrorless cameras or speedboosters.
Many tests of pre-AI single coated or uncoated lenses are performed on digital cameras. This shows their shortcomings. On a film camera their optical compromises are less evident, or add something to the image. Clean examples of pre-AI lenses are increasingly difficult to find, and still attract relatively high prices.
I expect prices will be trending downward in the very near future.
@@BriansPhotoShow why do you think so?
@@AD98. I'm no longer convinced of that. Although prices of hobby and collectible items generally crater during a recession, this is no normal recession. I suspect cabin-fever impulse buys have been fueling the market of late, and with the Fed printing money like there's no tomorrow, there's likely to be significant inflationary pressure. Of course not even top economists understand and agree about what's going on, so it's really anybody's guess at this point.
My feelings about the 85mm 1.8 are exactly the same. Didn't like the color saturation. Really muted. Was bummed. Then took some night photos with it and loved the rendering. Vintagey, cool bokeh, and sharp.
Yes, my experience exactly.
I’ll go with Mr. Oshita san story on the formula.
I went with a 50mm F2 pre AI just because I prefer the scallops on my F2 cameras. I like the vintage looks and they have a very practical feel in hand, classic Nikon. IMO they make the AI/AIS lenses feel cheap in comparison.
Sure, the scalloped pre-AI's feel great, but I wouldn't say the AI /AI-S feel cheap. I have both versions. Solid lenses. Greetings Nikon-bro.
I'm coming to the Nikkor vintage lens party a little late so forgive me if this is a total newbie question. I'm starting my collection and using the lenses on a Z6 with FTZ. For Pre-AI lenses, does it matter if they have been factory AI upgraded or not? I’ve watched numerous CZcamss where they say to look for an AI upgrade. In fairness to those videos, some of them are several years old and predate the Z body era. Unless I misunderstood, the Zs with FTZ adaptor are golden and have the widest range of compatibility. So what advantage do I have, in my situation, to look for the AI upgraded Pre-AI lenses? Specifically speaking when the lens formula across Pre, AI, and AIS is the same.
Mr Brian Grossman. I want everyone to know that you are very sincere and so am I. I am Korean. I would love to meet you someday. I am your subscriber. Christopher Lee.
Should you ever visit Israel, we'll meet for lunch and talk about old cameras!
Thanks for the video Brian :) I found 55mm 1.2 on Ebay selling with Nikkormat FTN. Do you have one? If so, would you recommend?
Everybody loves the 55/1.2 but I don't own one.
Brian, could you please do a separate video on the 55mm Micro Nikkor’s? I’m looking at getting one but for the life of me, can’t make my mind up about which version is ‘best’
I'd be happy to only I don't own one. I do very little macro work, and my AF 60mm f/2.8 serves me well when I need it.
A great, informative video. I have a set of AI-S lenses that I love, but I think I might like to add some Pre-AI lenses to my collection as well. I have a question about focus throw. AI-s lenses are known for having a short focus throw, while AI lenses have a much longer throw. Where do Pre-AI lenses fall?
It varies, though AIS lenses usually have the shortest focus throw for any given focal length. For details on a particular lens, see this chart: www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/specs.html
@@BriansPhotoShow Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
There seems to be some people saying the P Nikon 105 won't work on digital. (I have Fuji, and a bunch of vintage with adapters with no issues) Would like to know...
I've used the pre-AI 105 on my D700 with no issues.
great video to come buy. Subbed!
what's your opinion on the 55mm macros?
I don't own a 55mm macro. I've got the AF-D 60mm f/2.8 Micro which is an awesome lens and has good manual focusing feel, unlike most autofocus lenses. To my knowledge, the 55mm Micro lenses are highly regarded, though the 2.8 more so than the 3.5 I think, but don't hold me to that.
hi - i have a 55mm 2.8 ais and its probably the lens i have used the most. i use it for 99% of my product photography. it's a superb lens at any f stop.
hi brian, got theFD 35 2 from your recommendation months ago, cant be more happier. now i plan to get a 28mm, pick from
ais28 f2 and 28 f2.8(crc version), I mainly shot street photography, what would be your recommendation?
In 28mm, I would avoid the five-element Series E and AF versions. I had the AF version and was never really impressed. Of all Nikon 28/2.8's, the eight-element AIS version is generally regarded as superior, though I'm not sure how it compares to the f/2.
thanks I would pick a ais 28 2 first
Brian you've mentioned that you predict prices to go down in regards to the older nikkor gear, I'm wondering if you could elaborate on why?
Thanks for your valuable and informative videos.
I clearly wasn't thinking about mirrorless adapters when I said that, probably assuming that the incompatibility of NAI lenses with DSLRs would have an effect over time.
@@BriansPhotoShow I see, well mirrorless has definitely been a disruption in the industry!
The NAi lenses and nikkormat bodies remain fabulous value. It's just buying film that's getting hard 😪
In your opinion which Pre Ai 35 mm should i get? spending around 100-200 dollars
Perhaps you can find an f/2 at that price, though if not, there's nothing wrong with the Nikkor-S f/2.8.
What about the 18 or 20mm in old Nikkor glass, does it exist and is it any good?
I don't do much super-wide shooting and the widest Nikkor I own is the AF-D 20mm f/2.8. Ken Wheeler a/k/a The Angry Photographer claims that Nikon's best 20 is the f/3.5 version.
Nikon did make an 18 and 20mm . I have the 20mm ud I believe is the letting . Its Latin that stands for the amount of elements in the lens . It was a work of Art at the time it came out . I like the lens it’s a good one if used to it’s strengths. I’ve found it best for nature and landscape. I’ve used it for closeup wide angle for wild flowers in fields with closeup tubes . It’s not a 52mm but a 72mm filter thread.
Thoughts on the Nikon 80-200 4.5 AI?
Never used one. Wish I could be more helpful.
Ken Rockwell states that the 105/2.5 was best.
Great stuff Brian. May I ask why you say it's "a buyers' market"? I'd have thought that the relentless move towards mirrorless and cine stuff heralded a revival in demand for these optical gems, and thus far higher prices. I've never been any good at business though...
I suppose one could argue either way. Mirrorless demand puts upward pressure on prices, but a general global economic slowdown exerts downward pressure.
I was wondering the same. But, given that any make of older 35mm lens can be used with adapters, I’m not sure there is any specific demand for Nikon lens they way it used to be. I’m seeing some old Pentax Takumar lens selling for more then they used to, same with Canon FD and both those mounts are obsolete and not used in any digital camera.
@@EdwardT9 A quick look on eBay at older Nikkor lens prices will instantly disabuse anybody of the notion that they are (a) not in high demand and (b) they are cheap! High demand for them continues unabated, and has been pushing their prices up over the past 6 years or so.
@@AntPDC I was thinking of prices further back then 2015 or so... 90s early 2000 when my fuzzy memory says preAI lens seem to cost about what they do now. If they were cheaper 5 years ago, they were bargains!
@@EdwardT9 No kidding! It must be said, however, that many of the old Nikkors were, and remain, spectacular performers. I cannot speak for pre-AI Nikkors, but the AI/AI-s lenses I own perform brilliantly on my D810 and D7100. Today I shot a picture of a garden ornament upon which a fly had settled. I shot that image at a distance of 25 feet, and my 1988 Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 IF-ED AI-s resolved hairs on the fly's leg! Impressive. No wonder the mirrorless crowd are gagging for them!
How do I know if it’s been AI’d? I bought a 105 2.5 Nikkor-P ai Nippon Gogaku.
If not, will it work in my F5 film camera?
See my video on AI conversions: czcams.com/video/c7ePWjBplk8/video.html
@@BriansPhotoShow excellent explanation, thanks. I’ll await my lens delivery and compare to your video
What do you think about Nikkor Q auto 200mm F4 nippon kogaku ?
I've never owned one. I've got the AI version which has a different optical formula.
@@BriansPhotoShow yes, i heard that AI version 200mm f4 is a nice lens. But if compare to 135mm pre AI, is 200mm f4 AI l good enough ? For B&W purpose
@@hwidi7546 the ai 200mm f4 is one of the sharpest lenses out there. Sharp wide open, crazy sharp at 5.6. beautiful b&w. Bonus it's a lot smaller & lighter than the pre-ai
@@ryanbeer5262 thank you for your opinion 👍 it will be my next lens to buy
Prices did not go down 😭
On the earliest non AI nikkors the C is not multi coated it’s single coated.
The earliest AI Nikkors lacked the "C" which only appeared in the early 1970s to indicate the introduction of multi-coating.
i want the prototype thorium 1.4 35mm PLEASE :)
Actually, I believe all the pre-AI versions have a thorium element.
@@BriansPhotoShow i bought one... :))))
The old Nikon F and FM allow you to use these non-ai lenses as they are.
Note the FM will allow you to attach non AI but the meter system will not work properly.
The info regarding the 28mm 3.5 is wrong. Originating around 1960, it went though several formula alterations, sharpening its performance. In early/mid 1970s, it was redesigned to increase its rear element, which removed the vignetting which had characterized the lens. This mod appears in the last pre-AI version and made it a high quality performer and very inexpensive.
I did not know that. Unfortunately, Mr. Oshita omitted that information when he wrote the "1001 Nights" entry about this lens: imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0012/index.htm. I simply concluded that, given Mr. Oshita's effusive praise of the original version, plus the fact that it maintained a 6 element in 6 group configuration throughout its production run, the optical formula remained constant.
The AIS version focus way closer too