Klopp v Guardiola: The Premier League's greatest rivalry?
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola face off for the last time in the Premier League as Liverpool welcome the title holders Manchester City to Anfield. In his final season in charge of The Reds Klopp will be hoping to beat his nemesis Guardiola to the league trophy.
In Klopp’s 9 years in charge, his clashes with Guardiola’s Man City have defined the Premier League, but would either have been quite so successful without the other?
Pol Ballus and Oli Kay join Michael Bailey to discuss the incredible careers of both Klopp and Guardiola and how this sporting rivalry has brought the best out of one another.
Plus, The Athletic’s Bundesliga writer, Raphael Honigstein provides some insight into Klopp and Pep’s legacy in Germany.
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00:00:00 Intro
00:00:10 Liverpool v Man City
00:01:30 Jurgen Klopp at Liverpool
00:03:40 Pep Guardiola at Man City
00:06:51 Pep then and now
00:09:13 Klopp and Guardiolas ‘touchline act’
00:12:20 Pep v Jurgen: The rivalry
00:15:21 Raphael Honigstein on the pairs impact on each other
00:16:24 Dealing with big characters in the dressing room
00:21:30 Why Pep has stayed at City for so long
00:26:53 Raphael Honigstein on Klopp dealing with big egos
00:28:18 Peps biggest strengths and weaknesses
00:32:34 Ranking managing rivalries
00:36:10 How successful would both teams be without each other?
00:41:03 Who is more prepared to lose their manager?
00:46:27 Final Comments
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#LFC #MCFC #Klopp - Sport
Guardiola and doping charges are always never far from each other.
Fergie Vs Wenger will never be surpassed. It was a proper rivalry with enough needle between the teams to make a story.
3 titles for Wenger to Ferguson's 10. There is also an 8-2 hammering by Man Utd.
@@arglc If you include post Emirates yeah but Wenger wasn't allowed to spend anything and had to sell his best players for the stadium. 96-06 was the peak rivalry.
@theblackswordsman9951 Ferguson went through Glazers buying Man Utd then paying off their debt, paying themselves wages off Man Utd's revenue and still winning the Premier league as well as the Champions league.
@@arglc None of that impacted their spending. The Emirates impacted Arsenal.
@theblackswordsman9951 yes it did. However, the fact is it was a rivalry in the beginning for about 7 years then Arsenal became Man Utd's whipping boys.
Sir Alex/Wenger
This 💪
2 managers that actually hated each other and actually competed for 7/8 years. None of this Klopp/Guardiola love in
@@BigPurp9hated each other so much..that as a kind gesture, Wenger sold his best player (Van Persie) in fergies final season, so he could go and win the league for the lastime 😂..who sells their best player to a rival?!?..clown!
@@samkhan5661 you say this like Arsenal didn’t specifically sell Nasri to City and even offer Van Persie to City first to spite us. Nothing Wenger could do when Van Persie chose us over City. Are you really trying to compare the rich Premier League clubs of today to an Arsenal team that was up to their eyeballs in stadium debt that had to sell to anyone to balance the books? And using your own logic Liverpool/city can’t be rivals since Sterling moved between them
@@BigPurp9no point arguing with these 12 year olds. They don’t know ball.
Really awesome panel and host..loved it❤❤
It has been an absolutely brilliant rivalry here in England. Klopp has literally beaten Guardiola EIGHT times to that latter's six wins against Liverpool since 2016, one of which was after Klopp had already won the Premiership at a canter in 2020. There is quite a bit of ignorance and Twitter talk on here if people don't think that the Big German has been an amazing rival to Pep. 🤔
all the 115 kids are getting triggered because klopp is being compared to pep, pep is great , he really is but it's the 115 in city's favour . klopp managed to lose 2 titles just by a single point without throwing money for players and obviously not scamming the league, pep's treble is a great achievement but what klopp did is different and everyone knows that and y'all can't accept that. prime pep was at barcelona playing tiki taka football. this is obviously not the greatest PL rivalry , but things klopp did, no one else can, its time y'all accept it
lmao , your long essay could be summarized as if klopp had the money , he could do great things . but pep had greater money and now has 5x the trophies as klopp . klopp could do great things if he had more money , thats literally the summary of your essay
This is the laziest argument trotted out in the Pep v Klopp debate. Acting like Klopp didn't spend money to win the league or was doing it on a shoe string budget while he dropped a world record transfer fee for a defender. Pep did have more money, there's no doubt about that, but acting like Klopp is better than him purely because of the money is such a lazy argument. And it's one that can never be proven either because Klopp and Pep can't suddenly switch places just to test out your theory.
Find something more interesting to say.
@@markgrayson6771 it's not about the money , it's about breaching the rules which make the game interesting, obviously it's a lazy argument from me , I'm not saying Klopp is better or pep is bad ,both of them (for me ) are great managers and pep actually won more than Klopp did but that's not the point the point is that city play the game without integrity, cheating and breaking the rules and I feel pep will be the last man to play the games in that way but I was wrong, pep at Barcelona is the greatest for me but the pep in PL ,such a cheat
@@justexisting7143 Not going to argue with you about the cheating, City should be deducted points and fined and whether or not Pep knew about that (I imagine he at least had some idea, he's not stupid) doesn't change the fact that they cheated. It's not match fixing, Pep still has to win the games, but yeah I'm in agreement with you on this point.
However, you say 'it's not about the money' yet you brought up the money when you said Pep is 'throwing money for players'. You also state that 'I'm not saying Klopp is better' despite earlier saying 'things klopp did, no one else can' which outright implies that you think Klopp is better. Don't be a coward about it, if you think Klopp is better make an interesting point about it; you can't just run away from your earlier arguments.
Oli hits on a key point - but its not really so much style/quality but character at Liverpool. Tthe biggest veto is if there's any indication that the player won't get on in the dressing room, etc. This is why there's never been any nonsense in the public about what goes on with the players. They've all bought in and there's no chance of a Juan Cancelo or Laporte situation happening there.
Love how the athletic just fall over themselves praising a state playing football manager
Exactly, the media never factors that in lol
This isnt even a rivarly. Its one-man domination ting
Why you lying tho
@@Do27gg what’s the teams league positions in this rivalry? Last 9 years
“Klopp fits Liverpool because Liverpool builds a cult of personality around their manager unlike Arsenal and United” ah yes United and Arsenal two clubs famous for not having a single long term manager that fans idolised and built a cult around. Yep those are the two clubs that have never had that and definitely arnt the worst two examples to pick…
Waow, nice recency bias
I don’t think people actually remember how poor the biggest games used to be under Ferguson
He’d play 4 5 1 and just try not lose. Get a point and get home. Same with Jose
At least now. The biggest games are proper footballing occasions
Absolutely that! Those big Arsenal - Man Utd matches were more often scraps and attritional battles rather than beautiful games. Ferguson was a brilliant man manager, leader and father figure but he was a relatively poor tactician against proper teams. 🤔 Man Utd would routinely steamroller the bottom teams, spank the mid-table sides and scrape a point against their rivals. Fergie was definitely more positive than 'Maureen' but was often found out in matches against weaker rival teams who had inferior players. Some people are focusing on just the Premier League Pep Vs Klopp clashes, but their Champions League games were sublime.
Most of those who say "NO" don't know the difference between rivalry and enmity.
My best friend was also my biggest rival.
Pol just said the City job is the biggest in England, laughable
Title could be a Laddribble clickbait tweet. Well done
You're all too fixated on the trophies and not the actual matches they've played out
It's Ferguson vs Pep vs Arsene why is Klopp even in the frame
@@robertlee6338football isn’t for you bud
The short answer to the question in the title is just no, innit?
The answer is clearly yes..no two teams reached the heights these have
the arsenal invincble have a point tally of 90, liverpool finnished 2nd with 98 points and 92, and that’s just comparing with the losing side of the rivalry
@@Do27gg Even if that's true, I think it misses what fundamentally makes a rivalry great. Sure quality is part of it, but you need competitors who are evenly matched, a great rivalry has back and forth, and most importantly it has an emotional heart that makes victory mean something more than simple professional pride and I just don't think that applies to Klopp and Guardiola the way it does to some of the rivalries of yesteryear.
Perhaps I am merely nostalgic for the era of my youth, but the modern game is by all accounts sanitised compared to 20 years ago. (as much as the same was true 20 years ago about the football 40 years ago).
And mostly that is a good thing. It is good that there's less toxicity in the game, that people are more amenable, and that there's more congeniality in the game in general. But the flip side of that is that the professionalism necessarily requires a degree more emotional detachment.
@@matthewmcneany I’m assuming you aren’t a city or Liverpool fan, but a chelsea/United/arsenal fan which is why you prefer the 2000s. I get it it’s all preference but this city and Liverpool teams are simply the best 2 teams in prem history.
Are you not seeing all the toxicity that’s being built up for the game on Sunday? Trent’s comments etc? I get it’s maybe not as ruthless than before but it’s different eras, things are more PG nowadays
@@Do27gg Newcastle.
Oh look another athletic football podcast about the sky 6
Not even close
Pep - 5 titles
Klopp - 1 title
Klopp finished in the top 2 just three times in seven seasons. Two 4th place finishes, 3rd and 5th.
That's not a rivalry, Pep was totally dominant
Ferguson v Wenger all day. The managers disliked each other as did the squads almost to a man 😂
That was enmity, not rivalry
The Klopp hype is getting out of hand. Let's stay on earth
so true it is absurd.
So is your shit breath!
He’s had half the resources than pep yet has kept up with pep
rubbish comment@@Do27gg
Really? Are we forgetting Fergie vs Wenger? This is too friendly in my opinion
Klopp would have to have won more leagues titles to make it the greatest rivalry in history of premier league
Um, no.
pretty one sided "rivalry"
Well klopp has won 12 and guardiola has won 11 head to head
@@Lewis1995 The only thing that matters is who won in the end and Pep won every time besides 1
@theblackswordsman9951 I mean if he didn't win with city it would be highly embarrassing, they should be winning
@@Lewis1995 Easy to say, not easy to do. United should also be winning loads of trophies with how much they spend but look at them.
@Lewis1995 Ole Gunnar Solskjær has 4 wins and 4 losses against Pep. Is that a rivalry too?
Klopp v 115 charges. No contest
Charges have nothing to do with football.
115
It’s clearly the best rivalry. No two teams have reached their points total, broken consecutive wins, both teams won in Europe as well which shows they were the 2 best teams in the world for a time. Obvs Liverpool had more budget constraints so city edged 2 lea
gue titles by very few points. I think the fact klopp and pep were rivals in Germany too, with pep being at the bigger club and klopp being the underdog cements it
Man has wrote 20 comments in a minute 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@darrell5403 Darrell using road slang 💀
@@Do27gg you’re using emojis but commenting on slang. Cool…….
@@Do27gg let me guess you’re a Liverpool fan that’s is under 25, doesn’t live in the ok and has never been to Anfield
@@darrell5403 you literally used like 6 emojis and commenting on me using one 😂 let me guess you’re 12 and about to get your phone confiscated in set 8 maths
Stop it
During the years that Sir Alex Ferguson was managing Manchester United to many Premier League titles, Manchester United record points total as Champions was 80-88 points!! Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool team has come second to Man City while amassing 90+ points !!
So? Second isn’t 1st. Sounds like the rest of the league was garbage that year
These episodes are mint
is it still a rivalry when one side win 5 out of 6 ?
On paper it sounds like a huge lead but the history of the battles and if you take in all the variables into consideration, definitely was a rivalry and one of the greatest.
Not really a rivalry when 1 side outright buys the 5 out of 6 leagues
It's not just about the trophies, it's about the matches as well.
@@martintrinh6305 There is no point in talking nuances to obvious trolls.
@@jacobbutts6109 sounds like you need to stop taking to yourself
What rivalry that hugs each other bruhh. Definition of rivalry was Pep and Mou, Keane and Vieira
Kloop is giving up on the rivalry at end of season by the way, if there is any
There is no rivalry... or if it is, then its one-sided like the Arsenal-spurs rivalry.
During most of Klopp's tenure, liverpool were only the 3rd most successful team in PL. They only overtook Chelsea by winning the EFL cup this years. Yes thats correct, the circus at chelsea had won more trophies than klopp from 2016 to Jan-2024.
This doesn't even come close to Ferguson-Wenger rivalry.
The Chelsea stat is true but this is about rivalry between managers no? That haul of Chelsea silverware since 2016 was different managers
Ferguson vs Wenger. That was a real rivalry. What has Klopp won, one premier league title? Pep wins hands down.
It was a rivalry for about 7 years.
Prem League was bang average at the time so it was not hard to stand out!!!!!!! How many champ league did the premier league win during 98-2004???
@@Sidwhite-yb5cvfunny you cut it off exactly the year before Liverpool won the Champions League😂. The premier league nearly has more money than the next 2 leagues combined. Their success in Europe has more to do with that than the quality of the league
@@BigPurp9 Thanks for that Einstein, this has always been the way. In the 90s when the italian clubs were bankrolled by Millionaire businessman like Marotti and Berlusconi and now the English clubs are in that position due to good planning and selling the League worldwide
@@Sidwhite-yb5cv so what bearing does how well English teams did in Europe have to do with a rivalry. 2 relatively even teams competing equally across the league/cups and even CL for near enough a decade. Fergie and Wenger genuinely hated each other and now we have Pep/Klopp brown nosing each other while city have little bro’d Liverpool for 5 years
It's Ferguson vs Pep vs Arsene why is Klopp even in the frame
Wenger without a European trophy? Are you kidding?
@@jch6722 what Europe got to do with premier league rivalry?
OlinKay forgot about the impact of KDB. How much of bias he has
Sorry, but 1:5 isn't a rivalry. It's Pep, then Klopp a level below, then everyone else.
it's Pep at City with 115 charges - therefore meaningless success, then Klopp, then everyone else.
@@jch6722 meaningless to you cause u have only 1 title and we made you cry like babies
Take a shot every time Pol says 'like'. ;)
He’s talking in his second or third language….
@@mcorriette1 So? Still no reason to use the word 388 times in a 47 minute podcast, is it?
And no, that's not to say I don't have any catch phrases in my second (English) and third languages (German). But then again, I'm not vein enough to provide my two cents on a certain matter on a podcast on a channel having 212K subscribers. If I would, I definitely would mind my vocabulary.
It’s not….saved you a watch.
Media and league may want us to forget about City's corruption, but us fans won't. They've robbed several teams of titles. They haven't earned their success.
AW x SAF better, but they are close
Klopp is a top manager. But with only a single league title, and finishing 8th, 4th, 4th, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 5th (three excellent seasons from eight, and probably four from nine including this season)… I wouldn’t put this anywhere near the greatest managerial rivalry. Mourinho/Wenger would be third, and Mourinho/Fergie is second.
He took over a conference level Liverpool and completed club football. Pep has never achieved anything like that. Don’t forget what klopp did at Dortmund and Mainz
I agree Liverpool we’re rubbish prior to his arrival, but conference level is a stretch. And his record at previous clubs is a success. My first statement is he’s a top manager.
@@stevendesouza4970 well we were coming 8th which is literally conference so. I know you said he was a top manager but you’re downplaying his achievements without context
Look, I wish my team had landed him before he went to Liverpool. They’ve been to two CL finals and won one of those. He broke the league duck after so many years. These are great achievements. And Liverpool are exciting to watch.
Ranieri’s Leicester trumps Klopp’s league title, though and you can understand why.
Fergie and Wenger are a distant front two, then Mourinho, then Pep (with an asterisk). Klopp can’t get into this bracket for two reasons - only one title, and hasn’t retained it.
@@Do27ggthe context is Liverpool have consistently finished top 4 other than two seasons when they were consistently just outside that tier of teams before he arrived. At this rate Unai Emery at Villa is on course.
The constantly circle-jerked each other while one swept the trophies and the other only scraped a few. Not even a top 5 rivalry in the prem.
No, it's still Wenger and Ferguson - because the two teams didn't actually like each other. City and Liverpool is very 'cosy'.
OK but outside of some derby games (questionable still from player and coach perspective) aren't all clubs cosy with one another on the pitch and in the press conferences now? Roy Keane is old that time is over
Unpopular opinion: I believe the real rivalry between clubs is arsenal united and city Liverpool
Liverpool and city are the most two that competed against each other and same as arsenal and united, united and Liverpool is a trophies competition to take over the king of England spot but the two rarely competed directly against each other
Liverpool/city titles races are not only a 2014 upward thing, it started in the late 60s and 70s and it was identical but reversed, Liverpool most of the league trophies and it was mostly against man city, city have caused Liverpool to lose some league titles even back then, winning one and defeating Liverpool some other times to cause the title to go to someone else and then the two teams started falling down although man city much faster due to the unbelievable corruption of the board and caused the club to absolutely sink
Most people would say yes its Liverpool united but when you dive in deeply you will find the hate is much higher between arsenal/united and Liverpool/city (not counting the derby because its obvious one)
Nonsense
Not even close
obviously not.
dumb title.
Not even close. There’s no genuine animosity between either the clubs or the managers. If we go by trophies or games played it’s a no-contest. The premise is the literal definition of recency bias.
You don't need bitter animosity to be rivals, you just need to be competitive with each other.
no animosity between managers but the 2 clubs supporters absolutely hate each other
No. Pep and City have dominated the Premier League. Liverpool have been the closest rival but are nowhere near matching City’s 5 Premier Leagues and sheer consistency season after season...
oil money boo hoo
No where near is a wrong choice of words. Do you just look at the list of league winners? Go look at the tables. How many times Liverpool fell short by 1 or 2 pts. What is the head-to-head record? Even Guardiola admitted Klopp is his greatest nemesis. The only difference between these two teams is the spending power and one of the teams is rigging the FFP rules and it’s not Liverpool.
@@Aung19885 titles v 1 says nowhere near in anyone's book. Keep trotting out your anti-City conspiracies. It'll get thrown out again...
I'm honestly proud and surprised not that many bashing us and actually praising pep in the comments
I expected everyone to say Klopp is clear and city are cheating but no, people deal with it as speculation until proven guilty and said the truth, despite how most actually do hate man city and pep
Probably one of the most civilized communities, and I'm talking about the audience ONLY, won't say my opinion on other things...
how old are these clowns during Sir Alex vs Wenger rivalry?
What during the period when Premier league was piss poor?
@@Sidwhite-yb5cvBefore your mom met your dad
Another ignorant topic.
Klopp has won loke 4 trophies in 9 years? Why is he even being talked about as an all tome great premier league manager....
1 title 😂 this isn’t a rivalry
Football isn’t for you bud
@@Do27gg exactly how is it a rivalry? Utd finished above Liverpool twice in this so called rivalry.
@@darrell5403 okay? Liverpool lost one title by 1 point and 1 titles by 2 points. Both times achieving more point than any United team. Won a champions league and won the league in February against peps city. Don’t forget with half the budget pep had
@@Do27ggso what you’re saying is it’s not a rivalry and the premier league has got less competitive?
@@darrell5403 during the same time, United won Europa and came second twice, chelsea won Europa and champions league, spurs reached a champions league final, arsenal challenged for titles last 2 seasons. The average prem club has similar budgets to top la liga, Bundesliga. Serie a clubs. The standard in the prem has never been higher, it’s just city and Liverpool have been even greater. Use your brain pls it’s free 🙏🏼
Omg this is unlistenable.
1. not really a rivalry
- pool has as many PL tiltes as Leicester
- in the 3 last seasons 2. place have been United, pool, Arsenal.
- in the last 10 seasons Chelsea have won twice, Leicester once, Liverpool once.
No, it’s mediocre at best..
Absolutely true. Till Jan2024 Chelsea were actually more successful than liverpool since klopp took over...
1PL each
1CL each
1 FACup each
1 CWC each
1 ESC each
Chelsea had one UEL extra while liverpool had one EFL cup extra.
Liverpool only overtook them in Feb2024.
Rivalry with Pep. 😂😂
City's History? I totally agree mediocre at best yer plastic mug
proof that you don't watch ball
@@justexisting7143 what? Klopps average finish in the league is 3.5.
Hence Pep is more often than not having to compete with other managers/clubs for the title.
For reference, the PE teacher Ole have an average finish of 2.5 in his full seasons.
So yeah, Klopp has had a few good seasons, but they haven’t been in the race for even 3 seasons in a row. I mean, they’ve only finished top 2 3 times in 8 years.
@@jrgenb8107 if you want to decide the success of a manager based on the positions their team finished , then ya pep, but football ain't all about a team finishing on top ( not mentioning the 115 or maybe 116 from city) give pep a loaded team with class players, he will do the job, give klopp a normal team and an average budget , he still will do the job. if city didn't scam the league and went into tranfers and finances fairly, things would have been different, klopp would have had atleast 3 titles and that's where klopp is better than pep(for me and I respect your choice if you like pep)
klop 1 prem in eight years is a failure, good riddance
Not a failure considering the team he built. But yeah trophy wise he got minced by Pep and in CL by Ancelotti.
Jog on plastic
@@kth6736 Why do you comment at trolls?