Honestly as a sonic fan, I can’t continue watching this “SF Productions” guy. He obviously based his opinions on others and had never actually played the games. He goes around talking like “all knowing” but he isn’t. He never researched once for his videos and goes off of his emotions in his reviews and video essays. I can’t support someone with these wrong practices.
Ok, go then, Don't need to make a comment about it, just don't watch his videos. No offense, but you're sounding like an attention seeker. I disagree with him on this topic, but I'm not gonna unsub just bc I have a different opinion to him.
Making new 2D classic Sonic games won't take away from developing new Sonic ideas if Sonic Team keeps giving the development to 3rd party studios like they've been doing. Back in the 00s Sonic Team and other studios were making Sonic games pretty frequently with their combined efforts. I don't see how having a separate studio work on classic Sonic games would impact Sonic Team developing modern games
I disagree completely, when Classic Sonic met Modern Sonic, his timeline changed causing him to be a Sonic from another world instead of him being from the past.
doesnt make sense, considering in the official sonic encyclopedia written by ian flynn he's back to being sonic from the past. he was never from another dimension in the first place as that was just a translation error
Although I also have this headcanon and feel like it would be the better approach to avoid inconsistencies, any official media and/or writer states this isn't the case ant that he's actually Sonic from the past. Tailstube even went as far as to establish they consider time a dimension of it's own to justify Classic Sonic in Forces being stated to be from another dimension, by that meaning from a different time.
Listen man. As long as the 2 remain separate and explore and make new formulas that make the games more fun. I don’t care. If I can get games like Frontiers and Mania/Superstars every other year, I’d be really happy
Personally I think having two different dimensions of characters is a good thing. It would explain why they are so vastly different and lets them explore more creative approaches to both 2D and 3D games.
I think they are different. Only saying that because no one grows up to become darker and eye color change unless you have a disease or somth. I respect and understand ur opinion tho
I have a few friends who are classic fans, and I'm a fan of both modern and classic. Getting rid of him would disappoint quite a few people. The people who want him gone just shouldn't play classic games. Simple as that
Many fans enjoy the original 2D gameplay. They just want to see characters such as Shadow, Rouge, or Silver appear in games with the momentum based gameplay of the original games and Mania, since they've never been in games like that before. However, thanks to this Classic/Modern split, the chances of that happening are slim to none. This is the problem; this divide is just to appease overly negative fans who insist that Classic and Modern should be separate, but all this does is set unnecessary limitations on these games.
@@bowmaj8666 Well yeah, that's true, but no one's stopping Sega from making a 2D Sonic game, like the Advance series, with modern characters. It's just that they don't want to. The fact that Classic Sonic is considered a separate being from his modern counterpart doesn't outright nullify the possibility of a Sonic game with modern characters plus momentum based physics. It's just Sega's excuse not to. But killing Classic Sonic would just make it so no more classic-type games are released ever again, since that's the entire point of the existence of Classic Sonic: to be in classic-type games. After all, it isn't the fans who insist on the separation of Classic and Modern Sonic as much as Sega themselves. Nobody asked for two Sonics in generations. It was just a marketing decision. You know what I mean? It's kinda just Sega's fault, not the fans' fault.
Yeah, that's true. Sega might figure something out sooner or later, or run back on the decision of separating the two Sonics. It would be really awesome to see modern characters in 2D, although I personally think a 3D approach of the classics would be way cooler since it would be something new while simultaneously being reminiscent of the Adventure games. A win win in many people's eyes.
@@ClassicssgamesGameplays I mean that even back when Sonic 4 was announced, before Sonic Generations, there were angry fan boys who were absolutely furious that they didn't bring back Sonic's older design, and were even suggesting that the older design and the newer green eyed design should be two separate characters and two separate series. There was even one pretty infamous and whiney Sonic CZcamsr who suggested this after he made a pretty infamous video where he whined and moaned about "that ugly stretched out green eyed Sonic fighting the Modern style Eggman." You may or may not know who I'm talking about, but he had a very strange diaper wearing fetish (that he was very open about and wondered why people made fun of him and wouldn't take him seriously) and he also had a, let's say, unhealthy obsession with Princess Sally Acorn from the SATAM series and wanted to see her included in the games. So when I see Sega doing just that and making these two mere character designs two separate characters, it makes me feel like they're specifically appealing to his whiney demands. At this rate, how long will it be until we not only see Sally in the games, but also see her doing a "sexy" dance and holding up a sign saying "dedicated to my diaper wearing husband-o?" Now obviously, I'm not saying that every fan who liked Classic Sonic is like this weirdo, but any reasonable Sonic fan wouldn't judge a game based on Sonic's design, and would judge it on the quality of the games themselves. If Sonic Superstars was the exact same game but with the Modern character designs, would there honestly be whiney fan boys angrily demanding that Sega scrap the game and give them a "true" Classic game with the "real" Sonic in it? And after that, would it really be worth trying to appeal to these kinds of pathetic complaints?
As much I don't like Classic Sonic being shoved into games where he doesn't belong. I don't think it should be completely abandoned. I'm very sure the Classic Sonic formula can be expanded on by maybe adding parkour But I can agree with the whole nostalgia pandering stuff that SEGA just keeps doing for some reason. I don't really know who is still nostalgic for goddamn Green Hill. It really needs to stop. Great video man
For me i've just accepted the fact that sonic essentially has to hail from south island where green hill is because its the only damn reason as to why it keeps coming back in universe and as for classic sonic him being put in forces COULD have worked if the story ACTUALLY focused on WHY he was there and what he was there to do if the damn story had just handled classic sonic better and not devalue the true ending of mania with classic sonic being brought forces only to do NOTHING for most of the game hell charmy fucking bee does more in the story then classic sonic does classic sonic got screwed over by the completely lazy and pathetic excuse for writing in forces as generations already showed classic sonic interacting with the modern cast can be fun and goodish
@@georgiepig5726 It's because people are always saying "Sonic stories always suck! Stories in Sonic games aren't important! Nobody plays a Sonic game for the story, just the gameplay!" This is clearly false, but the people at Sega are convinced that it's true, so they basically just gave up on giving us a consistent and decent story. Instead they're shoehorning Classic Sonic and Classic levels into every game imaginable, again because they've been convinced by Classic purists that "Classic is the only way that Sonic can ever be good!" It's ridiculous!
@@bowmaj8666 I find it difficult to imagine classic fans being any less upset than modern fans that Green Hill is being reused for the dozenth time. It’s probably for marketing reasons, so that anyone who sees it will instantly recognize it as a Sonic game.
@@bowmaj8666 There definitely were some really bad Sonic stories, Shadow the Hedgehog being the first one then followed by Sonic 06, Sonic Lost World, Sonic Boom and Sonic and the secret rings but those are only five Sonic games where the story was stupid, every other Sonic story was pretty good and fitted Sonic so unless people are playing those same ones over and over again I don’t see why their saying every Sonic story is bad when that’s not the case only those five were.
@@Skye2993 I still think that the stories of Shadow and 06 had potential, but were let down by a few bad decisions. The main issue with Shadow was the try-hard attitude that they gave him, and making his origin alien which just came out of nowhere and doesn't match anything from his backstory in SA2. I also think that the whole "you choose if he's a hero or a villain" didn't really work, because we know that Shadow simply wouldn't do the things that he did to get to the Dark endings. I did however like the way that the story changes depending on your actions, but again this could've been executed a lot better. I also think that the story could've done with a bit more focus on how good and evil is a mere matter of opinion. With 06, the main issue that I personally have with that story is how Elise is basically the main focus; all Sonic really does in his own story is spout motivational quotes to her, and it just makes his personality come across as a tad boring. Don't get me wrong, I understand that it's totally in character for him to help someone in need, but did they really need to have the two actually have feelings for each other? Of course it was going to get panned! I might be slaughtered for saying this, but I personally think that the story of Unleashed was incredibly overrated. Nothing that interesting happens in it, in my opinion. It's just the bog standard "Eggman reads about some creature that's been sealed away and wants to use it to conquer the world, it betrays him and Sonic defeats it." Now there's nothing wrong with having a more simpler story, but all the other stuff in between just leaves me scratching my head. The Werehog literally only seems to exist as an alternative to "Sonic's stupid friends" which the "fans" are always complaining about, and Tails and Amy are the only two characters who were allowed to come along on this adventure. Which could make sense to appease the "too many Sonic characters" crowd, but Sega suddenly go back on themselves and suddenly introduce a brand new character who is suddenly Sonic's new BFF for this one game, only to never be seen, heard of or mentioned ever again! Meanwhile Tails and Amy are left twiddling their thumbs on the sidelines with absolutely nothing worthwhile to do that even justifies them being there. Not to mention that I personally found Chip to be a tad more annoying than all of the Sonic characters who people are always complaining are annoying.
I'm a veteran Sonic fan, been one since the Master System days and played most of the games mostly in release order. Back in my day there was just Sonic, one Sonic. The "modern" thing was just a redesign, just like Mickey, Bugs Bunny and any other mascot. Sonic Mega Collection even displays the modern designs in the cover art. Splitting between "Classic" and "Modern" only gave voice the haters and the "Sonic had a rough transition to 3D" crowd. Also, Sega is on the impression only Classic Sonic can do the Classic formula, but Sonic Advance is a thing. It also puts Classic Sonic in a box that it cannot break from, because anything else is not the "good old Sonic". Modern Sonic is way more flexible, it can do a lot of things. Even 2D modern games can have their own spin, like Advance 3 and the Rush games.
Thank you! Somebody gets it! I'd like to add that we're slowly seeing Classic doing stuff that like rail grinding. Isn't that a Modern thing? It's just proof that Classic games can pick and choose whatever they like from the Modern games, but try to make a game with the Modern character designs and the original game's 2D moment based physics, and these purists are always going "oh no no no! That stuff is Classic only! They MUST remain separate!" It's all hypocritical and ridiculous!
@@bowmaj8666 The only 2D game with the Modern designs that plays like the originals that I can think of is Advance 1, and I have never heard anyone complain about that part of the game.
@@bowmaj8666 Idk why you’re blaming the fans for having specifics on what makes classic and what makes modern when it was sega that made that term a thing when they released generations. Sega themselves made a distinction between a classic formula and a modern formula, not the fans. No one even had a name for classic sonic until sega dubbed it for him. Also, Idk what gives you the idea classic sonic hasn’t made changes to its gameplay. Classic Sonic’s been grind railing since generations so that’s not new, and we got the drop dash
@@squidsdontdie My point is that before Generations we got Sonic Advance, a game that mixed both the 2D gameplay of the older Sonic games but added elements from the newer games like Sonic's somersault and Tails' tail attack as well as the newer character designs. And nobody back then was complaining about superfluous things like Sonic's eye colour. It wasn't until Sonic 4 came out that a bunch of incredibly petty whiners suddenly decided that Sonic's design was absolutely vital in a 2D game, and just bitched, whined and moaned that they wanted the "real Sonic" in that game instead of "that green eyed imposter!" Sure Sonic 4 was a pretty underwhelming game, but it was almost like people were pinning all of the blame on Sonic's design; like all of a sudden the green eyed design of Sonic suddenly represented everything bad within the franchise. There were even people saying that the older design and the newer design should be separate characters with separate series. Not because this benefits the series in any way, it was purely because they wanted them to have absolutely nothing that associates with "those awful Modern games!" Then in the very next game, Sonic Generations, Sega did just that and split them into two. Now that is either one heck of a coincidence, or Sega did it out of obligation to appease these whiners, or they knew that they could profit from them. Despite all of this, Generations was a great game (the plot was lackluster, but gameplay-wise it was good), but that didn't stop Classic purists from going "Yeah, Classic Sonic is the best! Sooooooo much betterer than that stinky Modern Sonic! They should just get rid of him! Classic is the only way that Sonic can ever be good!" And it truly seems like that mentality has rubbed off on the people at Sega since practically every Modern game since Generations had some kind of Classic imagery or tropes in them. This is what I mean when I can't pin the entirety of the blame on Sega, since they will do whatever they want that will appease fans if they know that it'll make sales. And I honestly think that there's a bias towards Classic games because they're ultimately easier to make.
@@kjdakid23 yeah I get his points Sega needs to stop the nostalgia pandering with the returning classic stages like chemical plant and green hill. Classic Sonic shouldn’t invade the 3D games. I really just think they should make both Classic and modern like he said but Sega should not ditch Classic Sonic they should make modern games and classic games maybe don’t try to put all their resources into both at the same time I’d rather we just get classic Sonic games every once in awhile between 3D games
@@kjdakid23 I mean honestly I prefer Classic over Modern so if I were to have them only do one I’d be Classic obviously that’s probably not what would happen
The main issue with this video is that you didn't give a reason why classic sonic needs to die. All the issues you said you had with classic sonic can be fixed, without needing to kill off classic sonic. Future modern sonic games can be completely og with no nostalgia pandering, and you wouldn't have to kill classic sonic to do it. there is no real reason why classic and modern sonic can't coexist. Sonic fans always find something to complain about smh.
The main reason why I'm personally against them coexisting is because of these strange guidelines that they have to set. "Classic and Modern are separate! Classic has to stay Classic and Modern has to stay Modern! Only characters with black irises can appear in 2D games, and only characters with coloured irises can appear in 3D!" It just seems so limiting. Besides, there always seems to be exceptions to these rules anyway. "Well, rail grinding is a Modern thing, but meh, let's put that in a Classic game anyway! Right, now what kind of new things can we put in this new Modern game..... ummmm ... oh screw it, just throw in Classic Sonic, Green Hill and Classic robot designs! After all, Classic is the only way that Sonic can ever be good, right? At least that's what all of these Modern hating purists are always telling us!" Like seriously, coloured irises? That is the one line that Sega won't cross? A character like Shadow can't be in a 2D game with momentum based physics similar to the original games and Mania, all because a bunch of whiners will go "NOOOOOO, NO MODERN CHARACTERS ALLOWED, KEEP THAT STINKY EMO EDGE LORD AWAY FROM MY SONIC GAMES, REEEEEE!" Give me a break!
I'm not gonna lie, if classic sonic gets scrapped I will be quite upset just because the classic titles were my first experiences with sonic and definitely my favourite games in the franchise aswell as mania, it may clean up the narrative but I literally can't fathom him leaving
You can still have the Classic style gameplay, just replace the character models to the Modern ones, so that way fan favourite characters like Shadow, Rouge or Silver can be included too.
@@bowmaj8666 it certainly does open the way for more characters to be added in the games but I like classic sonic so much because of his design, gameplay style and his history and without his design something wouldn't feel right.
I personally don’t think classic sonic is much to worry about. The 2D games have been mostly developed by third party developers for a very long time so I don’t think it’s taking too much time or effort away from the mainline games. I think sonic team are still putting classic elements in the modern games because they’re still in the mindset that people want classic stuff (Keep in mind that for a while the community wanted modern gone and classic to come back so that’s why we got games like Sonic 4, Generations, Mania and Forces) and if I remember right a recent interview with Kishimoto after the launch of frontiers he said he actually wasn’t aware that the fans didn’t like the return of old stages so I have hope they won’t return in the next game. I can imagine it’ll be kinda hard to see all the feedback with a series like sonic, especially if the feedback is coming all across the world so I can totally see the team just not being aware of how there’s a large amount of people who dislike the classic stages Edit: I totally get why some people are concerned and I’m not trying to say those worries are invalid but I personally think things will be fine and we’ll end up moving away from this debate soon enough (like every other debate in this community)
I really don’t think it’s Classic Sonic’s fault for the modern games using nostalgia pandering, that’s their own issue. Seeing as how Superstars is fully unique, I think Classic Sonic is finally looking to strive to be more unique. As long as Classic Sonic is mainly used for 2D games and Modern Sonic the big 3D ones, it’s fine by me. I prefer Classic Sonic anyways. I’m down for a 2D Modern Sonic game, and I don’t want to see Classic Sonic used for every 2D game. It’s really as simple as moderating Classic Sonic and make sure it’s building something up rather than nostalgia pandering. It’s up for Modern Sonic to stop using Green Hill all the time, not Classic.
@@SFproductions1 I mean, casino is still there, mushroom hill but without mushrooms as well, and in the main story we have literally recolored green hill.
I’m in favor of classic sonic sticking around as long as he stays out of the modern sonic games and as long as we’re getting new stuff from it, I think the biggest thing holding sonic in general back now is the unending reuse of the same 2 or 3 level themes, I’d be all for never seeing green hill or chemical plant reused ever again, lmao also, 2d games typically have smaller budgets, and as long as they’re well designed, getting some of those every once in a while would be good, because if they succeed financially, that means more budget could be put into the big 3d games
I swear, everytime people brought up these points (nostalgia pandering, continuity and "holding Sonic back") it's mostly wrong like 1. literally who tf is getting nostalgic over a stage that's been almost every game and 2. I still don't get how people are STILL confused on Classic Sonic's continuity like it's so simple, Classic Sonic is still the SAME Sonic in the Current Era but from the past and games are literally just S1>CD>S2>S3&K>Mania>Superstars and the Forces thing happens between Mania & Superstars, Origins basically just adds extra steps to explain it more plus, all the stuff that from the Classic Era can literally still exist in the Modern Era, it's the same thing but different time, literally the Archie Comics does a really good job of doing this type of thing and 3. Saying Classic Sonic is holding back Current Sonic is pretty dumb imo, when the Advance and Rush Series exists and all the ideas that both Classic and Modern Sonic do, both old & new, can (sometimes) easily be translated into games in their represented style of Era
and the cyberspace levels are supposed to be cyber versions of the past. Green hill can be used for story telling or maps in minigames and that is acceptable. Tell me if u agree
I'm just sitting here wondering why Sega didn't do the New Super Mario, and have a 2d modern Sonic game like rush, or advanced while also bringing back some forgotten classic characters to the modern area like Mighty, or Ray. (And also make the classic era the past again. The classics being in a seperate dimension puts unnecessary limit on lore, and who can appear.)
Classic sonic is both the past version of sonic and an alternative dimension sonic since this classic sonic has the same origin of sonic it ultimately caused him to be an alternate dimension when they met in sonic generations. My idea is that since neither tails nor or sonics memories were affected when meeting their past forms they thought it was an alternate universe.
There is one compromise; make a 2D game with the momentum based physics of the original games and Mania but with the Modern character designs. However, every time I suggest that, I always get Classic purists going "oh no no no, 2D games MUST be Classic! They can't just abandon Classic! Why can't they carry on with Classic?" Like this mere character design is sacred or something, and that they simply can't accept that they're not different characters. Sonic IS Sonic!
Same, this drama wouldn’t even be a thing if people just played the type of games they preferred and didn’t start getting selfish and complaining over something that they can ignore. It feels like the fans are putting limits on their own franchise just because there’s a such thing as a shorter Sonic. *(massive rant about this whole drama as a whole starting now)* Like there are other versions of Mario like Paper Mario, yet you don’t hear the Mario fans complaining and fighting against themselves over something with an easy fix? If you don’t like the modern games, don’t play them. If you don’t like the classic games, don’t play them. That simple. If you wanna see Shadow in a 2d modern game, then pray for it to happen. If not then fangames are a thing, idfk anymore *Just let them coexist, okay?* There is absolutely no reason for ANY of them to get ditched, because you would be ditching a HUGE part of the fanbase for either one. I play both classic and modern, I love them both. Throwing one away is like taking 3 legs off a chair. And I don’t care about the technicalities anymore; “but oh classic sonic should stay in the past, he’s had too much it’s pandering to nostalgia and it doesn’t make sense in the story” I just don’t care anymore, forget the timeline and the technicalities. Games are meant to be fun, and there can be different types of games for everyone. Trying to remove one genre of a game franchise is selfish, because no matter how much you say classic has had too much (only had two original games in this decade) or too much nostalgia pandering (Superstars is very innovative so idk what’s up with that one), no matter how many excuses they use to justify Classic Sonic disappearing, they have to realize that no matter what they think, *people, MANY people still enjoy the classic games. They still have fun with them. That’s the whole point. To have fun. If you don’t like the game, don’t play it.* …A bit forgettable, isn’t it? It’s okay to not like something, but complaining on the internet about it and wanting it to end despite you being in FULL CONTROL to just ignore it is pure blasphemy. (I’m not talking about SF Productions, but mainly Unleash, he’s been being negative from the start) I swear, this drama the negative and problematic Sonic fans are two of the main reasons why the Sonic fanbase as a whole is frowned upon, and I’m sick of it. Constantly fighting among themselves over such trivial things. Why can’t it be how it used to be, where we could all just have fun coexisting? I’m sorry for the rant, it’s just this drama has annoyed me a lot and I just wanted to let out my frustration and opinions on this. *Please note that this is not targeted at SF Productions or the OP of this comment,* or anyone in particular, I think. It’s just how I feel about this drama as a whole. I could be wrong about all of this, but that’s okay. I just want this sh-tshow to end with both Classic and Modern in tact. Sorry for bombing this reply section, I’m out.
@@mehiloll For me it's more the fact that people are so clingy to the older, rounder, black eyed design of Sonic. Now, I can understand people liking that, but Christ, people treat it like it's sacred! It's even worse when people just turn on the green eyed design. That's what happened when Sonic 4 was announced. Again, I can understand people being disappointed with that game (I personally didn't buy it, but because it looked like an underwhelming game, not because of Sonic's damn eye colour), but listening to the amount of whiners making up every excuse that they could muster as to why the green eyed design was some kind of abomination was insufferable! Then Sega suddenly brought back the older design as an entirely separate character in the very next game, Sonic Generations; that was way too convenient to be a mere coincidence. That was either Sega listening to this toxic negativity towards the newer design, or Sega with money signs in their eyes knowing that they can profit from this. I think that's my main issue with all of this; it's all coming from a very negative place. People judge Classic Sonic on what he isn't, not on what he is! People look at a Classic game and start going "Yeah, no emo edge lords, no stupid story, no cringey voice acting! Just like the good ol' days!" It's like these games are being praised for having less content. If people honestly don't like these things, then there's there's other ways around it than just lumbering all the popular stuff on Classic and leaving Modern with all the divisive stuff that haters and detractors and overly critical critics are going to unfairly bash. If people don't like Sonic talking, then don't make an entirely separate Sonic who doesn't talk! How about making a game with the green eyed design with no dialogue in it, like the Sonic Advance series. If people don't like Shadow, them don't just lumber him in games like the Adventure series where playing as him is mandatory! How about making him optional, like games like Sonic 3 & Knuckles and Sonic Mania. If people don't like the stories of Sonic games, then you don't split the series into one with hardly any story and one with too much story! How about making a game where watching the cutscenes are optional? There's that game Freedom Planet (which is heavily inspired by the Sonic series) which has a story mode cutscenes and an arcade mode where you can just play the game without them; Sega could do that too. See, there's ways that Sega can bring the fans together and please everyone, instead of causing further rifts in an already divided fan base. That's why I'm hoping for a new 2D Sonic game with the momentum based physics of the original games and Mania but with the Modern character designs, so that no type of character is intentionally left out. And I know that there's always going to be Classic purists going "NO! I'm not playing a 2D game if it's not Classic Sonic! Only Classic Sonic can be 2D!" Well I'm sorry, but if people feel that way, then that's their problem! So many of these purists constantly say that their preferences have got nothing to do with the character design, but the fact that they shun the idea of the Modern designs being in a 2D game (despite the fact that they've been in 2D games before) just proves that this is a lie. And I'm not against having a game every now and again that features the older design, I just don't understand why that has to be an entirely separate series that hogs popular things away from the games with the newer design, and why nothing that happens in those games has any effect on rest of the series, like it really is a "Sonic in another dimension!" It's all way too divisive and isn't doing the series any favours.
@@leticianeal9147 Sorry, but if they made a game that had the momentum based physics of Mania but featured Sonic's modern design, and people complained about that and refused to play it because they wanted Classic Sonic, that seems so pathetic, and Sega shouldn't feel obligated to appease them. They're judging the game on Sonic's design, rather than the quality of the gameplay.
My interpetation of the Classic Timeline is that Generations takes place after every canon Classic Sonic game including the spin-offs and maybe even Sonic 4 including episode 3 happening off-screen Then after Generations Classic momentarily loses his memories of the events he's been through Keeping one timeline. After that Mania happens a few hours later. Then when he returns to Modern's time in Forces he regains his memory of the future until the end of the game, where he suffers slight amnesia again After Forces Mania Plus happens And after that, Superstars comes The reason why Superstars is at the end is that the Master Emerald is in the Emerald shrine of Sonic Adventure, meaning that after Mania and Plus Knuckles moved it to prevent more Emerald stealing from Eggman and the Heavies, and he just stuck with that location onward... My timeline always stays ONE timeline with no other dimension stuff...the reason why Tails said that Classic is from an other dimension is that Tails had a different theory and he BELIVED that Classic seperated himself from the original timeline...while that's not the case
I totally agree with what you are saying and I’m not against it, I just love to see classic sonic and how they continue to make their games more realistic and unique. But how they are bringing the stages of classic sonic to modern sonic is annoying, they need to keep a distance between the two and create to types of sonic with different stages, abilities and gameplay
"New ideas to get thrown out the window" shows gameplay where a 2D Sonic game with 4 PLAYER CO-OP has the characters turn into blocky rockets and fly across the map. Bruh.
Classic Sonic's Timeline to me is: Sonic 1 -> Sonic CD -> Sonic 2 -> Sonic 3 & Knuckles -> Sonic Superstars -> Sonic Generations -> Sonic Mania -> Sonic Forces -> Sonic Mania Adventures -> All of Modern Sonic's Adventures
The classic Sonic we see in superstars and mania literally cannot be Modern Sonic for multiple reasons. Not saying Classic and Modern are different but I am saying Gens probably caused a split in the timeline and that split makes mania and superstars happen but those games never happen to modern.
Remember two years ago when people thought Classic Sonic had been retconed to be a Sonic from another dimension and fans hated that? Remember how people said it'd be so much easier if it was just Sonic from the past? Well, Sega listened and retconed the retcon. And now what are the fans saying? I can't help but feel bad for Sonic Team, trying to please the unpleaseable crowd.
In fairness, it's not exactly fans changing their minds, it's just that whenever one group of fans gets upsets about something, Sega overcompensates to appease them, which in turn causes another group of fans to complain. Take Sonic's friends for example; people called them all "Sonic's stupid, annoying and useless friends", so instead of improving them and making them better, they instead just shoved them all to the sidelines and flanderized their personalities to make them as "annoying and useless" as these detractors always thought that they were, which in then angered the people who actually liked them! There's always a better way than just scrapping something entirely! Sega should never allow the most negative of nay sayers ultimately dictate what the Sonic series can and can't be; that just leads to disaster!
No dice in this case, the fanbase is 95% not at fault here. Another dimension was always a localization error, so there was no retcon to fix. The people behind the scenes should have known that the western feedback is complete bull and invalid because Forces was written in japanese, but because of their incomprehensible internal structure in managing both the brand image and the canon lore, they accepted it and gave a second retcon to something that did not even have a first retcon, messing it all up. It is overcompensation by the mere fact that they compensated for...nothing. Stuff like this is why other IPs usually stick to their languages of origin and disregard localizations completely outside of vague mythology references akin to how SA2 made the name Robotnik canon.
@@lpfan4491 A fair point, but I still think that toxic fan behaviour doesn't help matters. It was these types of fans who were whining that Sega should bring back Sonic's older design, and Sega obliged. Not because it benefits the story or lore of the series, but just to appease whiney fans. It was also these types of fans who were demanding that Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic should be two separate characters, and again Sega obliged by claiming that Classic Sonic comes from a separate dimension from Modern, and all of the Classic games take place there. Again, this doesn't benefit anything in the series, it ironically causes more confusion than it's supposed to solve, and it's all just to appease whiners who refuse to accept that they're the same character. And despite the fact that many concerned fans have mentioned how this hurts the narrative of the stories more than helps it, but the people at Sega just don't seem to care. And the reason that they don't care is because they're constantly being told by overly critical critics, Sonic haters and detractors, and tragically even some Sonic fans that "nobody plays Sonic games for the story! The story is ALWAYS too convoluted and cringey, with too many stupid characters and cutscenes that NO ONE cares about! Sonic was so much better when it was just Sonic stops Robotnik; that's all a Sonic ever was and that's all a Sonic game ever should be!" And if you disagree with these statements, then tough titty! Your opinion apparently isn't as important as the ones of these people who aren't even that fond of Sonic. That just feels wrong. Granted, Frontiers was a great game that finally breaks this mindset and actually feels like it's putting actual effort into the story, but it's still taken them over a decade to figure it out, and even then you can still tell that Sega are only lightly tipping their toes into ideas such as other playable characters and giving them actual worthwhile things to do in the story
Actually, Sega didn't retcon the retcon. Classic Sonic was always from the past. The idea of him being from another dimension was a translation mistake. Kinda like how Silver said Tails "lost it" in Sonic Forces (he's supposed to say he went missing).
Sega is not just a greedy company so what if they have green hill in every sonic game its a call of nostalgia from people who got the first game on release and having to separate sonics is good because it gives us more opportunity to have different variations of the games
Ehh. While I this is your opinion and you’re completely entitled to it, I don’t think it’s that much of an issue and this is more of a you just don’t like classic Sonic more than Classic Sonic is holding the series back. Modern Sonic’s woes have been more SEGA’s meddling than anything (short development cycles, not big enough budget, understaffment etc). And as much as you wanna say Classic is pandering classic Sonic literally saved Sonic with mania. If 3D Mario and 2D Mario can coexist and be great then there’s no reason Sonic can’t as well. As long as the games are great and SEGA doesn’t get in Sonic Teams way and let them cook on the ideals of both play styles then it’s fine and a win for the series overall.
Sonic Generations 3Ds was the last 2D modren Sonic game and if you don't want to count that you can count Colors Ds because it's defrinte than the Wii version in every single thing except they share the same locations
I think the nostalgia pandering is not classic sonic's fault, not per se. Classic sonic can be original and move the series forward, superstars is proof of that, its a known formula and its doing something different, so it being classic sonic does not mean that its not original or it hinders the series. If recent sonic games made nostalgia pandering but with the adventure era, it would be as bad as the classic nostalgia pandering. Also, experimentation can still be made, in 3d and in 2d. Classic sonic could be used to make games with the classic formula, and modern 2d games could be different spins on the classic formula. Classic sonic is doesn't need to die, because he can be as original as modern sonic. Even today, the classic artstyle is unique to classic sonic, same thing with modern. They have their unique characteristics, so why not have both? What this series need is to leave the nostalgia bait behind, and utilize the uniqueness and what makes both classic and modern sonic good to its advantage
@@mariocraft3067 Introducing more items or mechanics, I guess. Mania didn't really innovate all that much, but then again, it wasn't searching to do that, but rather combine many elements from the final or prototype versions of classic sonic games that came out before advance all into one experience. I suppose Superstars will innovate in a way the other games didn't, but we'll just have to wait and see.
I guess it depends how you look at it.... If Modern Sonic games are gonna go full 3D, then I'd say he needs to stay to keep the 2D aspect of Sonic fufilled. If Modern is gonna be half and half, then Classic may as well backseat for a while
I don’t get your point. Having two different styles of Sonic is pretty great. Classic for 2D platforming, Modern for high speed action. The franchise is growing regardless off Sega’s “nostalgia” practices. And do you honestly care about lore? It’s a sonic game
I still stand by the opinion that there's no real reason for Classic Sonic to still exist, no offense to those who like it. First, I don't like the fact that they have to limit 2D Sonic in this Classic style, when there's been 2D games that evolved the gameplay style like Advance or Rush. Second, Mania didn't even sell that crazy, compared to Frontiers (heck even Forces sold better), so at that point why still hold on to that if modern is clearly more profitable than Classic.
@@Super_star_remix There are times though, when it doesn't feel like Sega are appealing to fans; more like haters and detractors. Namely the people who refuse to play modern games because they're always complaining about "that ugly, stretched out, green eyed imposter!" Ask yourself, do these kinds of whiners really deserve to be catered to? Should they be the ones who can ultimately dictate what can and can't be in the Sonic series?
I think why people hate superstars is because the leaks said that the game would be 2D modern sonic game and we where surprised and the good part is that this game is a sequel to mania and it’s made by sonic team kinda so this shows they can do it and the game has original stages something worth buying the price of the game might be expensive but we wanted a mania 2 sequel but forces ruined classic sonic and frontiers brought the nostalgia back and sonic team horrible not existence marketing make us the discuss this game to death this wil confuse sonic team and not knowing what we want
If Silver and Blaze aren't going to appear in the modern games, then by all means, give me more CLASSIC Sonic, I'm sick of modern Sonic always taking the spotlight away from the other characters in the series.
Awesome video, man. Sonic fans are (kinda) getting sick and tired of Classic Sonic. Good thing I'm becoming a indie game developer, and if Sega/Sonic Team doesn't know how to make a good Sonic game or doesn't know how to make a new and original IP game outside of Sonic The Hedgehog, or if Sega/Sonic Team almost made a good Sonic game, but then it has problems on release, I might make a bad-ass/edgy, aquatic 3d platformer that's a mix between Sonic The Hedgehog and Splatoon.
I can’t say I understand why people are getting “tired” of classic Sonic when his only shorhorned appearance was in Forces. I can understand the Green Hill/Chemical Plant fatigue if that’s what you’re/they’re saying.
@mariocraft3067 Sonic fans are getting sick and tired of the same-old stages for Sonic games over-and-over again that SEGA knows Sonic games will sell like hotcakes.
@@keeganmcfarland7507 Very true, especially unfortunate considering that even classic fans don’t seem to like the constant shoehorning of these elements either. SEGA probably just puts them in to make the game more instantly recognizable as a Sonic game.
@@keeganmcfarland7507 Is there a reason I should? Like, your concept sounds cool, but that’s all I can really say. It would be cool if you had a demo I could look at that shows how your game could work in practice.
All the Classic Sonic stuff has already been solved. Mania’s ending actually takes him to encore mode. And they already said that Classic Sonic is Past Sonic. That might have just been a translation error or something. Also the ending cutscene doesn’t directly show Sonic Superstars taking place right after Sonic 3. It’s more of a hint for the fans because if it was I feel like it would be Sonic and Tails hearing about Northstar Island and going there instead of what we got. Idk why people hate Classic Sonic nowadays just because why not but alr
While I do agree that classic Sonic is holding back the franchise, I also don't think he has to be completely abandoned. I think for the next classic Sonic game, should they choose to make it, they could make a 3d classic Sonic game, like Project Superstars, or Sonic Expedition. I know this is essentially just the Adventure formula again, but seeing as though Modern Sonic is probably going to continue using the boost in tandem with the spin dash, there's no way he'll ever get a true adventure game. Besides, who doesn't like the Adventure formula? Sega had originally planned to make Sonic Adventure into a 3d classic Sonic game anyway so they can use this opportunity to fulfill their long lost vision. I would LOVE to see a game like that, because it would actually evolve the 2d formula, instead of just being more of the same. They can get really creative in 3d too, whereas in 2d, you're kind of restricted. I have a strong feeling that the emerald powers aren't going to be that interactive, cause they seem to be pretty gimmicky, and classic Sonic is not meant to be gimmicky, at least, fundamentally. And let's face it, people in general prefer 3d over 2d, so I think a 3d classic Sonic game would honestly be an easy home run for Sega, and I hope they do it.
Nobody is saying "get rid of the Classic gameplay!" They just don't see the point in constantly reusing the old design like it's sacred or something. Think about it, if Sega use the Classic designs, then they're denying a majority of the Sonic cast from appearing in that game because they don't have Classic designs. That hardly seems fair. And if they're going to introduce "New Classic" characters well then, that's an oxymoron. A character can't be Classic and new at the same time. Proof that the word "Classic' is being used as a mere marketing term; basically "Not Modern, so therefore good!"
@@bowmaj8666That's actually a very good take on this situation. I couldn't agree with you more. They really need to make all of their 2d games Modern from now on, in the Advance/Rush style, but I still really hope that 3d classic Sonic game happens!!
I can honestly say if there is ONE thing that they need to do with Classic Sonic, is to get the TRUE origins of Sonic. What I mean is how he was born with Super Speed, where is he originally from, does he still have family. I know Sega has those stupid rules, but after 30+ years, I think it's finally time we get some answers, and not just from the movies.
It definitely feels like the only reason Classic Sonic is still around is because of nostalgia pandering. Although, as long as Classic Sonic doesn’t appear in the 3D titles and stays relegated to the 2D games, then I can live with that. I just don’t want another repeat of Forces where he’s just there for no good reason.
I agree so much in forces classic sonic should have been given a role to play in the story it feels genuinely disrespectful to classic sonic and sonic as a whole to botch him so much like they did
4:51 "The last modern 2D Sonic game was Sonic rush Adventure" Sonic 4: And I take that personally Considering Sonic 4 was also made by the same developer who made the rush series. (Dimps)
Here's My Full Classic Sonic Timeline: Sonic 1 Sonic 2 Sonic CD Sonic 3 & Knuckles This is Where The Timeline Splits Off Timeline A: Sonic 3 & Knuckles (If You Didn't Get All The Chaos Emeralds) Sonic Mania (True Ending) Sonic Forces Sonic Mania Plus (Encore Mode) Timeline B: Sonic 3 & Knuckles (If You Did Get All The Chaos Emeralds) Sonic Superstars Timeline ?: Sonic Mania Adventures Sonic Generations
I’m just saying this because I kinda don’t like the way you said “Superior Sonic”, I do respect your opinion, though. But Classic Sonic isn’t the superior Sonic, but nor is Modern Sonic. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.
Yeah I want Classic Sonic to go too. He was cool in Generations and Mania but now he feels pretty stale. I'm sure Superstars will be a good game but honestly I don't really care to much about it because it just looks like the same thing. I feel like Sonic has had a bit of an identity issue recently. Frontiers looks good, but it doesn't feel very Sonic to me. The worlds are generic, the music is generic, it doesn't have the same flare other games had like Colors or Unleashed. Superstars I kind of feel the same way. It doesn't strike me with a real identity.
I respect your opinion but I have to disagree because their are people who enjoy the classic games and their aesthetic while also not being interested in the modern games and getting rid of it will likely hurt the fanbase more as a whole; their isn't any reason why classic games can't come out with modern because there are being worked on by different developers while also taking into account classic games likely being made in between the gap of modern games for the sake of more quality which works to keep Sonic fans satisfied. I do agree that green hill and other stages have been overused but we also see that Frontiers aesthetic and Superstars are more focused on creating new stages and styles that match the story and theme of the respective games. It is likely that after Forces Classic Sonic's timeline branches into a parallel timeline that is different from Modern Sonic's past which gives more opportunities to add classic characters like Mighty, Ray, and the Hooligans which haven't appeared or been mentioned in the Modern era.
This debate is kind of weird, since “Classic Sonic” has a single, defined character and gameplay style, wheras “Modern Sonic” has had multiple designs, characterizations, and gameplay styles. Nobody wants their favorite flavor of Sonic to be abandoned, but SEGA can’t possibly compensate for everyone. I suppose in this sense, even as a primarily classic Sonic fan, I have to admit it would be unfair for the series to have a 50/50 split with “Classic” and “All the other stuff”. Superstars and Mania are fine by themselves since they have been the only classic style games in over 2 decades, so I think they should focus on something like Adventure 1/2 style gameplay next since fans have been waiting ages for that.
Listen they have made very good 2d games since then like mania and superstars let them expand there ways of making games until the get it right it may be a drag to here the same toon in your ear every year but at least they are trying hard to fix this classic sonic mess and from some of the comments views i can say that classic sonic is good and the sonic community loves it so don’t butcher it ok
So in Sonic Forces, Tails did say about classic sonic, but he said DIFFERENT DIMENSION, not FROM THE PAST. So forces classic sonic isn't the real classic sonic. Though this is just a theory.
Sonic lore is complex, so you have Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Add Sonic Generations after this, and you kinda get the picture, including Classic Sonic beginning from Sonic Generations. (I know there are other problems) But, after Sonic Generations, Sonic Mania fits for Classic. After Sonic Mania, Sonic Forces. After Sonic Forces, you get 2 paths, Sonic Mania Onchore mode which Eggman’s ruining went undone. Finally, Sonic Mania+ Onchore mode leads to Sonic Superstars.
I hope Superstars' mediocre reception and not meeting sales expectations teaches Sega that they can't obsess over Classic Sonic. Classic Sonic is not the whole reason why Mania performed well. People love the Rush games.
See, i love classic sonic. He's a goofy lil guy, i just love his stylization back then when he was based off of old rubberhose characters. How he ran, th way he interacted with his surroundings, it was always so charming. I wish we could go back to that sort of sonic but then they gave him elbows and knees.
I agree, all the classic characters are amazing. classic eggman is actually a threat while modern eggman is literally the definition of participation reward recipient. classic tails is adorable and I will protect him with my life. classic amy is also the literal opposite of modern amy, as in she actually isn't annoying and more cute, she's just a kid in the classic timeline after all...they all are (with the exception of classic eggman and maybe classic knuckles)
Hey, I like BOTH classic Sonic and modern, the only thing I agree with you is that Sega should stop bringing back stages over and over. But here's something to chew on, no one wants to hear complaints unless they're valid!
After watching the video, I agree. I agreed when Unleash started all of this a month ago. Fans need to know that classic Sonic is holding the Sonic series back. You may remember me from an old video commenting how I enjoyed Sonic The Hedgehog 4, more so episode 2 than 1, and that Superstarts should've been Sega redoing the Modern Sonic era for 2D gameplay. Those who can't see this are the ones that are helping hold Sonic back from venturing off into new terrain. We have Frontiers, that's great. However, why make a Sonic game about the Classic Sonic era and STILL find a way to give Sonic a homing attack ability? Just make it a Modern Sonic game at that point. After Classic Sonic returning in Forces for them to retcon him being a Sonic from a different dimension instead of his past self told us that just to implement Classic Sonic into a game, the writing suffers. I'm... Okay with Sonic going the Call of Duty route by having two separate teams produce a new game for the divided fanbase when it comes to Classic and Modern. Unfortunately, doing this will hold the series back from truly expanding.
Imo I disagree because you can just make a headcanon and also classic sonic is their for the classic fans to stay happy. Even though I have never played a modern sonic game (unless you count Sonic rivals 2) classic sonic leaving the franchise will hurt it alot. SEGA is not dumb to ditch classic sonic because fans of him (such as me) will be bored and quit the sonic community. Just accept the fact classic sonic exists and if you don't want him included, just use mods.\
In my opinion, the best way to bring together this divided fan base is to make a brand new 2D game with the momentum based physics of the original games and Mania but with the Modern character designs. This way every reasonable Sonic fan will judge it on the gameplay, not what Sonic's damn eye colour is. And if there are people who cry "BUT ONLY CLASSIC SONIC CAN BE IN 2D! THOSE STINKY MODERN CHARACTERS HAVE RUINED IT! I WANT CLASSIC SONIC! GIVE ME CLASSIC SONIC OR I'M NEVER PLAYING ANOTHER SONIC GAME EVER AGAIN" then do these kinds of whiners really deserve to be appeased to? Is it honestly worth splitting the series and the fan base in two just because of these idiotic demands? I don't think so!
@sikosonix9013 I'm trying to come up with a better compromise. You say that having both Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic keeps everyone happy, but that's only on paper! The truth is, these Classic purists will praise the Classic games to high heaven purely based on bias, and will nitpick every aspect of the Modern games to death! And because Sega has a habit of taking away the wrong things from fan criticisms, my worry is that they're going to come to the conclusion that Modern games are just destined to fail, even when they're arguably at their best. There's not a single Modern game that every Sonic fan agrees is a good game. And we've even seen that for a while Sega had lost almost all faith in Modern Sonic, hence why every new game since Sonic 4 has had some kind of Classic imagery shoehorned into them. All I'm saying is that if Sega makes a decent 2D game, with the momentum based physics of the original games but with a selection of playable characters, both Classic and Modern, so that it isn't just appealing to one fan base. What about people who don't care? I'm only suggesting that they use the Modern designs because it makes more sense to give characters like Mighty and Ray Modern designs than to give characters like Shadow or Silver Classic designs. Not to mention it makes more sense continuity wise. Seeing older characters interacting with newer ones seems like a great idea to me, but because of this Modern/Classic divide this will likely never happen.
@sikosonix9013 I'm not being aggressive or generalising. I'm just pointing out my experiences with Modern haters. Not all fans who like Classic Sonic hate Modern Sonic, but I'm not referring to them because they're not the ones who are denying a 2D game with the Modern character designs, because they don't care.
2:15 Buddy the whole green hill being in every sonic game was a joke that was made even before sonic genarations if there isn’t a green hill there will be some kind of paint job to make it look different like emerald hill or emerald coast and also in SA2 green hill is a playable level if you get all A ranks in every zone
For the most part at this point, as I’ve said multiple times now, I could care less about Classic staying or getting his own games as long as he never shares the spotlight with Modern again for no reason since that only should’ve happened in Generations, I do prefer how 3D and 2D were handled before Generations where the 2D games were just that but with Modern Sonic aesthetic like the Advance games, but again, as long as Classic is exclusive to his own games then I’m fine with him sticking around even if I’m tired of having to distinguish Modern and Classic, why can’t it be just Sonic
I agree at least unless classic sonic actually has GOOD writing being paired with modern sonic and actually HAS IMPORTANCE TO THE PLOT looking at forces for that stupid shit seriously forces could have followed up from manias true ending by having classic sonic have a mission of his own to get back to his home while simultaneously helping the modern cast save the day that would have actually given him PURPOSE in the story as he doesn't even do anything until the end and he is literally one of the four main playable characters in the damn game
First this is a very well put togather video and i think you have done a great job explaining your position However i personally see this in a diffrent light, other large IP's like Mario, Zelda, and Metroid have 2 set syles one for 2D and 3D and they both have there reasons to exists, Sonic falls into that same light where there is both the 2D and 3D experinces so getting rid of classic sonic would be a loss of a particular style of gameplay that people would enjoy On the flip side of that i completely agree with you that Classic Sonic has had too much of an impact on modern games, the whole point of having a game styled in 2D and another styled in 3D is so both games can do their own thing and stay in a particular gameplay Style, if Classic Sonic continues to influence modern Sonic both in gameplay and level design it will definitely hold the series back and going forward I'd love to see something brand-new that doesn't feature something from the classic games again. I also definitely think that it's high time that we do get a modern Sonic 2D game and let 3D sonic be enterily in 3D not throwing in random 2D sections. Id love to see the level desighn of the adventures games come back in that sense! Honestly the best outcome would be to have the best of all three world, having Classic Sonic continue as its own genre, having modern 2D Sonic games to fill in the gaps between big title releases and having a full 3d Sonic game that is its own brand new experience that evolves the franchise in many different ways maybe finally continuing what the adventure games laid out! But thats just my thoughts, I respect your position either way!
The thing I can get by with Mario….that there’s no “Classic Mario”. It’s still the same Mario that exist in both 2D and 3D. So why can’t Sega do the same with Modern Sonic?
I think they should simply just make less classic sonic games so more modern sonic games and when they are not busy with anything they can make a classic game
Ooh boy, where to start with this subject? First of all, let's face facts here. The only reason that we even got a Classic Sonic in the first place is because whiney purists were complaining when Sonic 4 didn't bring back his old design and threw the mother of all hissy fits when that game wasn't exactly what they were expecting it to be, which was basically a direct sequel to S3&K as well as a giant retcon of all Sonic games from Sonic Adventure and onwards. There were whiners who were demanding that the old design and the newer green eyed one should be two separate characters, and the fact that Sega gave us exactly that in the very next game, Sonic Generations, is way too convenient to be a coincidence to me. That's either Sega giving into toxic fan demands, or them with money signs in their eyes knowing that they can profit from this, and have been doing so for the past decade, despite what this does to the series continuity and stories (which they likely don't care about anymore because overly critical critics are always saying "nobody cares about the stories of a Sonic game, just the gameplay!) Second of all, people really need to stop acting like they're two different characters. People always seem to bash Modern Sonic for being "too different" to what Sonic used to be, and then praise Classic Sonic to high heaven for being exactly like they remember from "the good ol' days." However, if you look at the way Classic Sonic acts in games like Generations and Forces, there's clearly something different. Like the way he runs; a jaunty little jog with a happy little smile on his face. Compare that with the way that he runs in the intro and ending to Sonic CD; all the speed, all the action, and sheer determination to reach his destination and do the right thing, and all with a cocky and confident smirk. Yet people always go nuts for Classic, saying things like "Yeah, no storybooks and swords, no werehogs, no snogging human princesses, no guns and swearing, no emo edge lords and no saying baldy nose hair; in fact no talking at all! That's MY Sonic, not that green eyed freak of an imposter!" They're judging Classic Sonic on what he isn't, rather than what he is. If you take him for what he is, he's no better or worse than Modern Sonic, because Sonic IS Sonic! Which brings me to my third point. Why is it that whenever Modern Sonic is in a bad game, people instantly blame the design, rather than bad ideas or programming? The fact that the main thing that people complained about with Sonic 4 was Sonic's damn eye colour just makes me roll my eyes! As if the mere addition of Classic Sonic would've saved that game. People dismissed that game before it was even out. Whereas games such as Generations and Mania were heralded as amazing games before they were even out. Even Superstars is getting the same treatment, and it's all because it's marketed as a Classic Sonic game. Which brings me to my last point. This whole Classic/Modern divide is just all way too divisive among Sonic fans. I've spoken to a lot of fans who support this divide who disagree, and they always give the exact same answer. "It works because Classic fans get what they want in one series, and Modern fans get what they want in the other! And everyone is happy!" However, that's not the case at all. For starters, the main rule seems to be that it should be Classic for 2D and Modern for 3D. Well already that has singled out a majority of the Sonic cast from ever appearing in a 2D game ever again. Many people were hoping for characters such as Shadow, Rouge or Silver to be in a brand new 2D Sonic game, but because Superstars is marketed as a Classic game, that's not going to happen, and if only Classic can be 2D, then they never will! How is that fair? And considering the fact that Sega simply doesn't want to include them into any 3D games either (thanks to the "Sonic's stupid friends" crowd who Sega seems obligated to appease) the chances of them being used ever again are slim to none! Then these advocates say "No, Modern characters can be in 2D games, but they have to have boosting or homing attacks in them! They can't have the momentum based physics of the original games and Mania, cos that's Classic only!" Again, it's this "Classic can only be this, and Modern can only be that" crap that's putting unnecessary limitations on these games. What is so wrong with a 2D game with the momentum based gameplay of Mania but with the Modern character designs? This way you aren't purposefully dismissing the majority of fan favourite characters. You can have Shadow, Rouge, Cream, Blaze Silver or the Chaotix, but you can also have characters like Mighty, Ray, Fang, and even this new character, Trip; they just need to updated designs, just like every other character has had, which is basically just slightly longer proportions, more detailed shoes and gloves and coloured irises. Is that really such a big deal? Are fans honestly going to complain about that? If anyone says "but where's Classic Sonic?" The answer would be simple. "He's right there! He just has longer proportions and green eyes now!" It's utterly ridiculous to me that there is such a large number of Sonic fans who straight up refuse to accept this.
@@pinhe4d321 Ok, short version; people are way too clingy with Classic Sonic. It's a mere character design, not an entirely separate entity. Treating them like they're separate is just putting unnecessary limitations on these games.
@@leticianeal9147 "Can't use Modern characters in a 2D game cos only Classic Sonic can be in 2D from now on!" That is putting limits on the characters that Sega can use!
Eh... Considering what I know of the continuity of this entire series from Sonic 1, I think you are drawing the wrong conclusions. Classic sonic never really "held back" the franchise, here. The actual problem is that this series never gave a damn about continuity and is only recently trying to justify itself, creating problems. Take the first three games for instance. Did you know that "the chaos emeralds" were never intended to be these singular entities, but stones unique to each landscape the game takes place in? Yeah, the reason Sonic 2 has 7 emeralds instead of 6 is because they are completely different "chaos emeralds" from the ones in Sonic 1. They only started becoming these established, singular entities around the time Sonic Adventure was released, and that game was arguably the first to do some major retcons of the classic series, for what little was there to begin with. Then years later, Sonic Origins comes out and says they were always like that the entire time and one emerald was simply missing. Not to mention how Sonic has an entire timeline of events with the gamegear/master system games that literally nobody in the modern day acknowledges as existing, only now Sonic Superstars kind of remembered that Fang was a character that existed. Then you had the shit with Sonic '06 where Blaze the Cat's backstory was completely different, all because the devs literally forgot Sonic Rush was a thing. Then games like Sonic Colors and Lost World more or less abandon the darker/edgier track established by games like Sonic Adventure 2 to being more like the type of tone/settings of the classic games because they realized the whole concept of "what if Sonic's world was real" was a dumb idea that created many issues with the plot of the games. My point here is that Sega/Sonic Team never really made these games with continuity in mind, which is partially deliberate since, from the get-go, they wanted each new Sonic game to be its own experience. As for stuff like the inclusion of Green Hill in every game, that's actually not a new trend. It's pretty much Sonic tradition for the first stage to take place in some green tropical environment, and even older games like Sonic Adventure 2 has Green Hill as a playable bonus stage. The "nostalgia pandering" was going on for a loooong while, way longer than with Generations, SEGA just hasn't been so overly blatant about it as they are now.
Classic sonic is not the problem for the nostalgia pandering..the problem is sonic team not trying to be creative with world building.. The solution is that sonic team should be creative and create new and original environments not eliminating classic sonic
Wait, if Superstars is seemingly going to take place after Sonic 3, when will Sonic Triple Trouble take place? Will it be retconned in order for Superstars to be Fang’s first canonical appearance?
@@CoolSonicShows Sonic Triple Trouble takes place right after Sonic 3. If Sonic Superstars is going to take place after Sonic 3 instead, when will Triple Trouble happen?
I don’t see why he can’t co-exist. People need to chill, but that doesn’t excuse the quality of the content we are getting. Origins was mid and kinda a rip off, Superstars seems fine, but for $60 it ain’t topping Mania. I agree the nostalgia pandering is AWFUL and hurts the franchise as a whole. Having “all new zones” shouldn’t need to be a selling point, it should just be a given. This is why I’m never on the sonic hype train anymore, it feels stuff is always “good enough” or fine*.
Sonic superstars is after sonic origins but the last game in that collection isn't sonic 3, it is the last game gear game and classic sonic 's sonic generations timeline and sonic mania are after sonic 3 & knuckles
I think you misinterpreted what Sega is doing. It’s not Sonic, it hasn’t been since generations. They briefly brought him back in Mania, but that’s it. Classic Sonic isn’t Sonic. He’s an imposter, and his name is Santiago. I’d be fine if they brought back the old Sonic, but Santiago needs to go. They need to get rid of Santiago.
I’m going to be honest, if they abandon classic sonic i might just give up on the franchise. I adore all of the 2d games including mania and superstars and they are the only thing keeping me from hating sonic. If they just stoped making them i’d be extremely disappointed
There’s credence to this. I’d have to say there’s no reason for Classic Sonic to exist if anything. Sure you can call it a personal bias of mine, but you can still have Modern Sonic exist on two different plains (2D and 3D). We’ve seen this happen with Advance and Rush, so there should be no reason why Sega would be reluctant in doing that. Tbh, I feel like you can spread your imagination a lot more when doing Modern Sonic. Whether it be the gameplay systems, or exploring new/ well known characters, or albeit create new stages.
Exactly! If Sega use the Classic designs, then they're limiting themselves to a small handful of other characters (Mighty, Ray, the Chaotix, Fang.) Yet if they use the Modern designs, then they can use any character that they like. They can even give these "Classic" characters updated designs (longer proportions and coloured irises) so that they can appear too. I personally think it'd be fun to see characters who haven't met before rubbing shoulders and letting their unique personalities bounce off of one another. Imagine Mighty interacting with Shadow, or Fang interacting with Rouge. Only Classic purists are going "oh no no no! Classic characters MUST stay Classic!" It's all just setting unnecessary limitations on these games.
@sikosonix9013 The point is that Classic Sonic did evolve! He evolved into Modern Sonic. Yet because there are so many people who refuse to accept that, they're demanding that Sega evolve him into something else.
@@kingtiger5040 To be honest, I didn't even notice that Sonic's quills were a slightly different length (emphasis on SLIGHTLY!) But if you're a person who works at Sega, and you're getting fans complaining about the length of Sonic's quills, what do you do? Well for starters, you don't have meetings with the higher ups to discuss how long Sonic's quills should be! You don't create two separate Sonics with two separate quill lengths to appease different fans! What you do is you roll your eyes and ignore that nonsense! Which is what they should've done when fans were bitching about Sonic's damn eye colour in Sonic 4. That game had plenty of problems, but the colour of Sonic's eyes wasn't one of them!
I’m ok With new Classic Sonic games, But I think they should limit the Classic Sonic stuff and keep Classic out of Morden Games. And if Sega makes more 2d games they should make them Morden and just introduce classic inclusive characters ( Like Mighty Ray Trip etc) in the Morden games.
Honestly as a sonic fan, I can’t continue watching this “SF Productions” guy. He obviously based his opinions on others and had never actually played the games. He goes around talking like “all knowing” but he isn’t. He never researched once for his videos and goes off of his emotions in his reviews and video essays. I can’t support someone with these wrong practices.
Why does people always keep saying "Classic Sonic Needs To DIE"?
SF Productions is just a premydaremy clone.
@@Tailsfly593 that's crazy 💀
Pin of shame
Ok, go then, Don't need to make a comment about it, just don't watch his videos. No offense, but you're sounding like an attention seeker. I disagree with him on this topic, but I'm not gonna unsub just bc I have a different opinion to him.
Making new 2D classic Sonic games won't take away from developing new Sonic ideas if Sonic Team keeps giving the development to 3rd party studios like they've been doing. Back in the 00s Sonic Team and other studios were making Sonic games pretty frequently with their combined efforts. I don't see how having a separate studio work on classic Sonic games would impact Sonic Team developing modern games
Sonic team was divided when they worked on 06 and Secret Rings.
Here's my simple answer
Keep them separate
Keep them good
Keep them fresh
Keeping them separate is just putting unnecessary limitations on these games.
@@bowmaj8666how?
@sikosonix9013 Because there are always going to be people who judge these games on Sonic's design, not on the quality of the games themselves.
@@bowmaj8666 That's not a game issue.
@@bowmaj8666no really :/ I mean they could just plop him in a new modern sonic game
I mean, there's many people who prefer Classic Sonic so I don't think they should completely abandon him
I'm one of those people that prefer classic sonic
@@tj.hendersonwe need to move on Classic is cool but hes gotta stay in the past
@@AscendedEmperornope, some people (like me) not only enjoy the character more, but I like the 2D gameplay. I've never liked the 3D games
I'm one of those people too :)
@Stickz0816 i mostly play the classic games, but the adventure games were amazing and heros was good for what it was trying to be.
I disagree completely, when Classic Sonic met Modern Sonic, his timeline changed causing him to be a Sonic from another world instead of him being from the past.
makes sense
doesnt make sense, considering in the official sonic encyclopedia written by ian flynn he's back to being sonic from the past. he was never from another dimension in the first place as that was just a translation error
So a timeline split
Isn't this the exact reason why everyone hated the writing in forces?
Although I also have this headcanon and feel like it would be the better approach to avoid inconsistencies, any official media and/or writer states this isn't the case ant that he's actually Sonic from the past. Tailstube even went as far as to establish they consider time a dimension of it's own to justify Classic Sonic in Forces being stated to be from another dimension, by that meaning from a different time.
Classic Sonic is the GOAT Sega should keep him.
Listen man. As long as the 2 remain separate and explore and make new formulas that make the games more fun. I don’t care. If I can get games like Frontiers and Mania/Superstars every other year, I’d be really happy
Yeah I agree. I just feel like Frontiers was held back because they were also working on superstars. could just be me tho
@@SFproductions1 maybe man maybe
@@SFproductions1superstars has nothing to do with frontiers, superstars was developed by arzest
@@roco1998 good point but those are still resources that are being allocated to classic Sonic when they good ve allocated to frontiers instead
@@SFproductions1bro you a trash CZcamsr if you can’t research the basic facts 💀
Personally I think having two different dimensions of characters is a good thing. It would explain why they are so vastly different and lets them explore more creative approaches to both 2D and 3D games.
They’re literally the same guy with the same personality with the same friends and enemies one is just shorter.
Okay?
I think they are different. Only saying that because no one grows up to become darker and eye color change unless you have a disease or somth. I respect and understand ur opinion tho
They *were* the same
@@faz10do you do realise tails tube debunked the “alternate universe” stuff
@@tailzgimer1726 I’m gonna cun
I have a few friends who are classic fans, and I'm a fan of both modern and classic. Getting rid of him would disappoint quite a few people. The people who want him gone just shouldn't play classic games. Simple as that
Many fans enjoy the original 2D gameplay. They just want to see characters such as Shadow, Rouge, or Silver appear in games with the momentum based gameplay of the original games and Mania, since they've never been in games like that before. However, thanks to this Classic/Modern split, the chances of that happening are slim to none. This is the problem; this divide is just to appease overly negative fans who insist that Classic and Modern should be separate, but all this does is set unnecessary limitations on these games.
@@bowmaj8666 Well yeah, that's true, but no one's stopping Sega from making a 2D Sonic game, like the Advance series, with modern characters. It's just that they don't want to. The fact that Classic Sonic is considered a separate being from his modern counterpart doesn't outright nullify the possibility of a Sonic game with modern characters plus momentum based physics. It's just Sega's excuse not to. But killing Classic Sonic would just make it so no more classic-type games are released ever again, since that's the entire point of the existence of Classic Sonic: to be in classic-type games. After all, it isn't the fans who insist on the separation of Classic and Modern Sonic as much as Sega themselves. Nobody asked for two Sonics in generations. It was just a marketing decision. You know what I mean? It's kinda just Sega's fault, not the fans' fault.
@@ClassicssgamesGameplays My point is that it's being egged on by the fans and that just isn't helping.
Yeah, that's true. Sega might figure something out sooner or later, or run back on the decision of separating the two Sonics. It would be really awesome to see modern characters in 2D, although I personally think a 3D approach of the classics would be way cooler since it would be something new while simultaneously being reminiscent of the Adventure games. A win win in many people's eyes.
@@ClassicssgamesGameplays I mean that even back when Sonic 4 was announced, before Sonic Generations, there were angry fan boys who were absolutely furious that they didn't bring back Sonic's older design, and were even suggesting that the older design and the newer green eyed design should be two separate characters and two separate series. There was even one pretty infamous and whiney Sonic CZcamsr who suggested this after he made a pretty infamous video where he whined and moaned about "that ugly stretched out green eyed Sonic fighting the Modern style Eggman." You may or may not know who I'm talking about, but he had a very strange diaper wearing fetish (that he was very open about and wondered why people made fun of him and wouldn't take him seriously) and he also had a, let's say, unhealthy obsession with Princess Sally Acorn from the SATAM series and wanted to see her included in the games. So when I see Sega doing just that and making these two mere character designs two separate characters, it makes me feel like they're specifically appealing to his whiney demands. At this rate, how long will it be until we not only see Sally in the games, but also see her doing a "sexy" dance and holding up a sign saying "dedicated to my diaper wearing husband-o?"
Now obviously, I'm not saying that every fan who liked Classic Sonic is like this weirdo, but any reasonable Sonic fan wouldn't judge a game based on Sonic's design, and would judge it on the quality of the games themselves. If Sonic Superstars was the exact same game but with the Modern character designs, would there honestly be whiney fan boys angrily demanding that Sega scrap the game and give them a "true" Classic game with the "real" Sonic in it? And after that, would it really be worth trying to appeal to these kinds of pathetic complaints?
As much I don't like Classic Sonic being shoved into games where he doesn't belong. I don't think it should be completely abandoned. I'm very sure the Classic Sonic formula can be expanded on by maybe adding parkour But I can agree with the whole nostalgia pandering stuff that SEGA just keeps doing for some reason. I don't really know who is still nostalgic for goddamn Green Hill. It really needs to stop.
Great video man
For me i've just accepted the fact that sonic essentially has to hail from south island where green hill is because its the only damn reason as to why it keeps coming back in universe and as for classic sonic him being put in forces COULD have worked if the story ACTUALLY focused on WHY he was there and what he was there to do if the damn story had just handled classic sonic better and not devalue the true ending of mania with classic sonic being brought forces only to do NOTHING for most of the game hell charmy fucking bee does more in the story then classic sonic does classic sonic got screwed over by the completely lazy and pathetic excuse for writing in forces as generations already showed classic sonic interacting with the modern cast can be fun and goodish
@@georgiepig5726 It's because people are always saying "Sonic stories always suck! Stories in Sonic games aren't important! Nobody plays a Sonic game for the story, just the gameplay!" This is clearly false, but the people at Sega are convinced that it's true, so they basically just gave up on giving us a consistent and decent story. Instead they're shoehorning Classic Sonic and Classic levels into every game imaginable, again because they've been convinced by Classic purists that "Classic is the only way that Sonic can ever be good!" It's ridiculous!
@@bowmaj8666 I find it difficult to imagine classic fans being any less upset than modern fans that Green Hill is being reused for the dozenth time. It’s probably for marketing reasons, so that anyone who sees it will instantly recognize it as a Sonic game.
@@bowmaj8666 There definitely were some really bad Sonic stories, Shadow the Hedgehog being the first one then followed by Sonic 06, Sonic Lost World, Sonic Boom and Sonic and the secret rings but those are only five Sonic games where the story was stupid, every other Sonic story was pretty good and fitted Sonic so unless people are playing those same ones over and over again I don’t see why their saying every Sonic story is bad when that’s not the case only those five were.
@@Skye2993 I still think that the stories of Shadow and 06 had potential, but were let down by a few bad decisions.
The main issue with Shadow was the try-hard attitude that they gave him, and making his origin alien which just came out of nowhere and doesn't match anything from his backstory in SA2. I also think that the whole "you choose if he's a hero or a villain" didn't really work, because we know that Shadow simply wouldn't do the things that he did to get to the Dark endings. I did however like the way that the story changes depending on your actions, but again this could've been executed a lot better. I also think that the story could've done with a bit more focus on how good and evil is a mere matter of opinion.
With 06, the main issue that I personally have with that story is how Elise is basically the main focus; all Sonic really does in his own story is spout motivational quotes to her, and it just makes his personality come across as a tad boring. Don't get me wrong, I understand that it's totally in character for him to help someone in need, but did they really need to have the two actually have feelings for each other? Of course it was going to get panned!
I might be slaughtered for saying this, but I personally think that the story of Unleashed was incredibly overrated. Nothing that interesting happens in it, in my opinion. It's just the bog standard "Eggman reads about some creature that's been sealed away and wants to use it to conquer the world, it betrays him and Sonic defeats it." Now there's nothing wrong with having a more simpler story, but all the other stuff in between just leaves me scratching my head. The Werehog literally only seems to exist as an alternative to "Sonic's stupid friends" which the "fans" are always complaining about, and Tails and Amy are the only two characters who were allowed to come along on this adventure. Which could make sense to appease the "too many Sonic characters" crowd, but Sega suddenly go back on themselves and suddenly introduce a brand new character who is suddenly Sonic's new BFF for this one game, only to never be seen, heard of or mentioned ever again! Meanwhile Tails and Amy are left twiddling their thumbs on the sidelines with absolutely nothing worthwhile to do that even justifies them being there. Not to mention that I personally found Chip to be a tad more annoying than all of the Sonic characters who people are always complaining are annoying.
I'm a veteran Sonic fan, been one since the Master System days and played most of the games mostly in release order. Back in my day there was just Sonic, one Sonic. The "modern" thing was just a redesign, just like Mickey, Bugs Bunny and any other mascot. Sonic Mega Collection even displays the modern designs in the cover art.
Splitting between "Classic" and "Modern" only gave voice the haters and the "Sonic had a rough transition to 3D" crowd. Also, Sega is on the impression only Classic Sonic can do the Classic formula, but Sonic Advance is a thing. It also puts Classic Sonic in a box that it cannot break from, because anything else is not the "good old Sonic". Modern Sonic is way more flexible, it can do a lot of things. Even 2D modern games can have their own spin, like Advance 3 and the Rush games.
Thank you! Somebody gets it! I'd like to add that we're slowly seeing Classic doing stuff that like rail grinding. Isn't that a Modern thing? It's just proof that Classic games can pick and choose whatever they like from the Modern games, but try to make a game with the Modern character designs and the original game's 2D moment based physics, and these purists are always going "oh no no no! That stuff is Classic only! They MUST remain separate!" It's all hypocritical and ridiculous!
@@bowmaj8666 The only 2D game with the Modern designs that plays like the originals that I can think of is Advance 1, and I have never heard anyone complain about that part of the game.
@@bowmaj8666 Idk why you’re blaming the fans for having specifics on what makes classic and what makes modern when it was sega that made that term a thing when they released generations. Sega themselves made a distinction between a classic formula and a modern formula, not the fans. No one even had a name for classic sonic until sega dubbed it for him. Also, Idk what gives you the idea classic sonic hasn’t made changes to its gameplay. Classic Sonic’s been grind railing since generations so that’s not new, and we got the drop dash
@@squidsdontdie My point is that before Generations we got Sonic Advance, a game that mixed both the 2D gameplay of the older Sonic games but added elements from the newer games like Sonic's somersault and Tails' tail attack as well as the newer character designs. And nobody back then was complaining about superfluous things like Sonic's eye colour.
It wasn't until Sonic 4 came out that a bunch of incredibly petty whiners suddenly decided that Sonic's design was absolutely vital in a 2D game, and just bitched, whined and moaned that they wanted the "real Sonic" in that game instead of "that green eyed imposter!" Sure Sonic 4 was a pretty underwhelming game, but it was almost like people were pinning all of the blame on Sonic's design; like all of a sudden the green eyed design of Sonic suddenly represented everything bad within the franchise.
There were even people saying that the older design and the newer design should be separate characters with separate series. Not because this benefits the series in any way, it was purely because they wanted them to have absolutely nothing that associates with "those awful Modern games!" Then in the very next game, Sonic Generations, Sega did just that and split them into two. Now that is either one heck of a coincidence, or Sega did it out of obligation to appease these whiners, or they knew that they could profit from them.
Despite all of this, Generations was a great game (the plot was lackluster, but gameplay-wise it was good), but that didn't stop Classic purists from going "Yeah, Classic Sonic is the best! Sooooooo much betterer than that stinky Modern Sonic! They should just get rid of him! Classic is the only way that Sonic can ever be good!"
And it truly seems like that mentality has rubbed off on the people at Sega since practically every Modern game since Generations had some kind of Classic imagery or tropes in them. This is what I mean when I can't pin the entirety of the blame on Sega, since they will do whatever they want that will appease fans if they know that it'll make sales. And I honestly think that there's a bias towards Classic games because they're ultimately easier to make.
Well, get ready for the comments 🫥
Cause he’s wrong
if they watch the video before judging they would get a GREAT understanding. coming from classic sonic fan
@@kjdakid23 yeah I get his points Sega needs to stop the nostalgia pandering with the returning classic stages like chemical plant and green hill. Classic Sonic shouldn’t invade the 3D games. I really just think they should make both Classic and modern like he said but Sega should not ditch Classic Sonic they should make modern games and classic games maybe don’t try to put all their resources into both at the same time I’d rather we just get classic Sonic games every once in awhile between 3D games
@@Doodle1678 i’d rather them just make modern and classic sonic the same sonic
@@kjdakid23 I mean honestly I prefer Classic over Modern so if I were to have them only do one I’d be Classic obviously that’s probably not what would happen
The main issue with this video is that you didn't give a reason why classic sonic needs to die. All the issues you said you had with classic sonic can be fixed, without needing to kill off classic sonic. Future modern sonic games can be completely og with no nostalgia pandering, and you wouldn't have to kill classic sonic to do it. there is no real reason why classic and modern sonic can't coexist. Sonic fans always find something to complain about smh.
I never said classic Sonic needs to die in the first place lmao
The main reason why I'm personally against them coexisting is because of these strange guidelines that they have to set. "Classic and Modern are separate! Classic has to stay Classic and Modern has to stay Modern! Only characters with black irises can appear in 2D games, and only characters with coloured irises can appear in 3D!" It just seems so limiting. Besides, there always seems to be exceptions to these rules anyway. "Well, rail grinding is a Modern thing, but meh, let's put that in a Classic game anyway! Right, now what kind of new things can we put in this new Modern game..... ummmm ... oh screw it, just throw in Classic Sonic, Green Hill and Classic robot designs! After all, Classic is the only way that Sonic can ever be good, right? At least that's what all of these Modern hating purists are always telling us!"
Like seriously, coloured irises? That is the one line that Sega won't cross? A character like Shadow can't be in a 2D game with momentum based physics similar to the original games and Mania, all because a bunch of whiners will go "NOOOOOO, NO MODERN CHARACTERS ALLOWED, KEEP THAT STINKY EMO EDGE LORD AWAY FROM MY SONIC GAMES, REEEEEE!" Give me a break!
@@SFproductions1 *"Why SEGA Should Ditch Classic Sonic"*
@@leticianeal9147 I'm not saying the should kill him lmao I'm just saying they shouldn't focus on him
I agree with you, I really dislike people who whine about the most simple things and make a big problem out of it. Classic Sonic *SHOULD* stay.
I'm not gonna lie, if classic sonic gets scrapped I will be quite upset just because the classic titles were my first experiences with sonic and definitely my favourite games in the franchise aswell as mania, it may clean up the narrative but I literally can't fathom him leaving
@@VanessaWong-yi5pe Mania sold less than fucking Forces mate, how is Classic Sonic bringing them more money?
@@VanessaWong-yi5pe forces outsold maina in only a couple of months what money is he making.
You can still have the Classic style gameplay, just replace the character models to the Modern ones, so that way fan favourite characters like Shadow, Rouge or Silver can be included too.
@@pinhe4d321 it's such a shame too, mania is my favourite game of all time. Also love the pfp
@@bowmaj8666 it certainly does open the way for more characters to be added in the games but I like classic sonic so much because of his design, gameplay style and his history and without his design something wouldn't feel right.
No Matter which era Sonic is still awesome and Cool the way he is
You'll never take me alive! 😈
You're not going anywhere, mate
I personally don’t think classic sonic is much to worry about. The 2D games have been mostly developed by third party developers for a very long time so I don’t think it’s taking too much time or effort away from the mainline games. I think sonic team are still putting classic elements in the modern games because they’re still in the mindset that people want classic stuff (Keep in mind that for a while the community wanted modern gone and classic to come back so that’s why we got games like Sonic 4, Generations, Mania and Forces) and if I remember right a recent interview with Kishimoto after the launch of frontiers he said he actually wasn’t aware that the fans didn’t like the return of old stages so I have hope they won’t return in the next game. I can imagine it’ll be kinda hard to see all the feedback with a series like sonic, especially if the feedback is coming all across the world so I can totally see the team just not being aware of how there’s a large amount of people who dislike the classic stages
Edit: I totally get why some people are concerned and I’m not trying to say those worries are invalid but I personally think things will be fine and we’ll end up moving away from this debate soon enough (like every other debate in this community)
I really don’t think it’s Classic Sonic’s fault for the modern games using nostalgia pandering, that’s their own issue. Seeing as how Superstars is fully unique, I think Classic Sonic is finally looking to strive to be more unique. As long as Classic Sonic is mainly used for 2D games and Modern Sonic the big 3D ones, it’s fine by me. I prefer Classic Sonic anyways.
I’m down for a 2D Modern Sonic game, and I don’t want to see Classic Sonic used for every 2D game. It’s really as simple as moderating Classic Sonic and make sure it’s building something up rather than nostalgia pandering. It’s up for Modern Sonic to stop using Green Hill all the time, not Classic.
yeah but unfortunately superstars still has green hill... it's very minor but it's still there
@@SFproductions1Yeah, but it’s just a battle stage, so it’s effect is minimal so that’s good.
@@SFproductions1 I mean, casino is still there, mushroom hill but without mushrooms as well, and in the main story we have literally recolored green hill.
@@SFproductions1well by that logic, so do Sonic 2 and CD. "Green hill but actually not" isn't new to classic sonic games
@sikosonix9013 I get level design is original but like the art design ain't "fully unique" as someone else above said.
I’m in favor of classic sonic sticking around as long as he stays out of the modern sonic games and as long as we’re getting new stuff from it, I think the biggest thing holding sonic in general back now is the unending reuse of the same 2 or 3 level themes, I’d be all for never seeing green hill or chemical plant reused ever again, lmao
also, 2d games typically have smaller budgets, and as long as they’re well designed, getting some of those every once in a while would be good, because if they succeed financially, that means more budget could be put into the big 3d games
I swear, everytime people brought up these points (nostalgia pandering, continuity and "holding Sonic back") it's mostly wrong like 1. literally who tf is getting nostalgic over a stage that's been almost every game and 2. I still don't get how people are STILL confused on Classic Sonic's continuity like it's so simple, Classic Sonic is still the SAME Sonic in the Current Era but from the past and games are literally just S1>CD>S2>S3&K>Mania>Superstars and the Forces thing happens between Mania & Superstars, Origins basically just adds extra steps to explain it more plus, all the stuff that from the Classic Era can literally still exist in the Modern Era, it's the same thing but different time, literally the Archie Comics does a really good job of doing this type of thing and 3. Saying Classic Sonic is holding back Current Sonic is pretty dumb imo, when the Advance and Rush Series exists and all the ideas that both Classic and Modern Sonic do, both old & new, can (sometimes) easily be translated into games in their represented style of Era
and the cyberspace levels are supposed to be cyber versions of the past. Green hill can be used for story telling or maps in minigames and that is acceptable. Tell me if u agree
@@kyledcreatorofficial I agree lol
I agree with you, people are over complicating it.
I'm just sitting here wondering why Sega didn't do the New Super Mario, and have a 2d modern Sonic game like rush, or advanced while also bringing back some forgotten classic characters to the modern area like Mighty, or Ray. (And also make the classic era the past again. The classics being in a seperate dimension puts unnecessary limit on lore, and who can appear.)
Classic sonic is both the past version of sonic and an alternative dimension sonic since this classic sonic has the same origin of sonic it ultimately caused him to be an alternate dimension when they met in sonic generations. My idea is that since neither tails nor or sonics memories were affected when meeting their past forms they thought it was an alternate universe.
4:50 Sonic 4 was sad enough because of episode 3's cancelation to deny their appearance in this specific part of the video
I just wish the classic sonic community and the modern sonic community would just make an agreement to just enjoy their preferred gaming experience
There is one compromise; make a 2D game with the momentum based physics of the original games and Mania but with the Modern character designs. However, every time I suggest that, I always get Classic purists going "oh no no no, 2D games MUST be Classic! They can't just abandon Classic! Why can't they carry on with Classic?" Like this mere character design is sacred or something, and that they simply can't accept that they're not different characters. Sonic IS Sonic!
Same, this drama wouldn’t even be a thing if people just played the type of games they preferred and didn’t start getting selfish and complaining over something that they can ignore.
It feels like the fans are putting limits on their own franchise just because there’s a such thing as a shorter Sonic.
*(massive rant about this whole drama as a whole starting now)*
Like there are other versions of Mario like Paper Mario, yet you don’t hear the Mario fans complaining and fighting against themselves over something with an easy fix?
If you don’t like the modern games, don’t play them. If you don’t like the classic games, don’t play them. That simple.
If you wanna see Shadow in a 2d modern game, then pray for it to happen. If not then fangames are a thing, idfk anymore
*Just let them coexist, okay?* There is absolutely no reason for ANY of them to get ditched, because you would be ditching a HUGE part of the fanbase for either one.
I play both classic and modern, I love them both. Throwing one away is like taking 3 legs off a chair.
And I don’t care about the technicalities anymore; “but oh classic sonic should stay in the past, he’s had too much it’s pandering to nostalgia and it doesn’t make sense in the story” I just don’t care anymore, forget the timeline and the technicalities.
Games are meant to be fun, and there can be different types of games for everyone.
Trying to remove one genre of a game franchise is selfish, because no matter how much you say classic has had too much (only had two original games in this decade) or too much nostalgia pandering (Superstars is very innovative so idk what’s up with that one), no matter how many excuses they use to justify Classic Sonic disappearing, they have to realize that no matter what they think, *people, MANY people still enjoy the classic games. They still have fun with them. That’s the whole point. To have fun. If you don’t like the game, don’t play it.*
…A bit forgettable, isn’t it?
It’s okay to not like something, but complaining on the internet about it and wanting it to end despite you being in FULL CONTROL to just ignore it is pure blasphemy. (I’m not talking about SF Productions, but mainly Unleash, he’s been being negative from the start)
I swear, this drama the negative and problematic Sonic fans are two of the main reasons why the Sonic fanbase as a whole is frowned upon, and I’m sick of it.
Constantly fighting among themselves over such trivial things. Why can’t it be how it used to be, where we could all just have fun coexisting?
I’m sorry for the rant, it’s just this drama has annoyed me a lot and I just wanted to let out my frustration and opinions on this. *Please note that this is not targeted at SF Productions or the OP of this comment,* or anyone in particular, I think. It’s just how I feel about this drama as a whole.
I could be wrong about all of this, but that’s okay. I just want this sh-tshow to end with both Classic and Modern in tact. Sorry for bombing this reply section, I’m out.
@@mehiloll For me it's more the fact that people are so clingy to the older, rounder, black eyed design of Sonic. Now, I can understand people liking that, but Christ, people treat it like it's sacred! It's even worse when people just turn on the green eyed design. That's what happened when Sonic 4 was announced. Again, I can understand people being disappointed with that game (I personally didn't buy it, but because it looked like an underwhelming game, not because of Sonic's damn eye colour), but listening to the amount of whiners making up every excuse that they could muster as to why the green eyed design was some kind of abomination was insufferable! Then Sega suddenly brought back the older design as an entirely separate character in the very next game, Sonic Generations; that was way too convenient to be a mere coincidence. That was either Sega listening to this toxic negativity towards the newer design, or Sega with money signs in their eyes knowing that they can profit from this.
I think that's my main issue with all of this; it's all coming from a very negative place. People judge Classic Sonic on what he isn't, not on what he is! People look at a Classic game and start going "Yeah, no emo edge lords, no stupid story, no cringey voice acting! Just like the good ol' days!" It's like these games are being praised for having less content. If people honestly don't like these things, then there's there's other ways around it than just lumbering all the popular stuff on Classic and leaving Modern with all the divisive stuff that haters and detractors and overly critical critics are going to unfairly bash.
If people don't like Sonic talking, then don't make an entirely separate Sonic who doesn't talk! How about making a game with the green eyed design with no dialogue in it, like the Sonic Advance series.
If people don't like Shadow, them don't just lumber him in games like the Adventure series where playing as him is mandatory! How about making him optional, like games like Sonic 3 & Knuckles and Sonic Mania.
If people don't like the stories of Sonic games, then you don't split the series into one with hardly any story and one with too much story! How about making a game where watching the cutscenes are optional? There's that game Freedom Planet (which is heavily inspired by the Sonic series) which has a story mode cutscenes and an arcade mode where you can just play the game without them; Sega could do that too.
See, there's ways that Sega can bring the fans together and please everyone, instead of causing further rifts in an already divided fan base.
That's why I'm hoping for a new 2D Sonic game with the momentum based physics of the original games and Mania but with the Modern character designs, so that no type of character is intentionally left out. And I know that there's always going to be Classic purists going "NO! I'm not playing a 2D game if it's not Classic Sonic! Only Classic Sonic can be 2D!" Well I'm sorry, but if people feel that way, then that's their problem!
So many of these purists constantly say that their preferences have got nothing to do with the character design, but the fact that they shun the idea of the Modern designs being in a 2D game (despite the fact that they've been in 2D games before) just proves that this is a lie.
And I'm not against having a game every now and again that features the older design, I just don't understand why that has to be an entirely separate series that hogs popular things away from the games with the newer design, and why nothing that happens in those games has any effect on rest of the series, like it really is a "Sonic in another dimension!" It's all way too divisive and isn't doing the series any favours.
@@bowmaj8666 You act like your opinion is a fact, people can like Classic Sonic and not be a fan of Modern Sonic, quit malding.
@@leticianeal9147 Sorry, but if they made a game that had the momentum based physics of Mania but featured Sonic's modern design, and people complained about that and refused to play it because they wanted Classic Sonic, that seems so pathetic, and Sega shouldn't feel obligated to appease them. They're judging the game on Sonic's design, rather than the quality of the gameplay.
My interpetation of the Classic Timeline is that Generations takes place after every canon Classic Sonic game including the spin-offs and maybe even Sonic 4 including episode 3 happening off-screen
Then after Generations Classic momentarily loses his memories of the events he's been through
Keeping one timeline.
After that Mania happens a few hours later.
Then when he returns to Modern's time in Forces he regains his memory of the future until the end of the game, where he suffers slight amnesia again
After Forces Mania Plus happens
And after that, Superstars comes
The reason why Superstars is at the end is that the Master Emerald is in the Emerald shrine of Sonic Adventure, meaning that after Mania and Plus Knuckles moved it to prevent more Emerald stealing from Eggman and the Heavies, and he just stuck with that location onward...
My timeline always stays ONE timeline with no other dimension stuff...the reason why Tails said that Classic is from an other dimension is that Tails had a different theory and he BELIVED that Classic seperated himself from the original timeline...while that's not the case
I totally agree with what you are saying and I’m not against it, I just love to see classic sonic and how they continue to make their games more realistic and unique. But how they are bringing the stages of classic sonic to modern sonic is annoying, they need to keep a distance between the two and create to types of sonic with different stages, abilities and gameplay
"New ideas to get thrown out the window" shows gameplay where a 2D Sonic game with 4 PLAYER CO-OP has the characters turn into blocky rockets and fly across the map.
Bruh.
Sonic is Sonic
And Classic Sonic is outdated and stagnated gameplay.
Based
Classic Sonic's Timeline to me is:
Sonic 1 -> Sonic CD -> Sonic 2 -> Sonic 3 & Knuckles -> Sonic Superstars -> Sonic Generations -> Sonic Mania -> Sonic Forces -> Sonic Mania Adventures -> All of Modern Sonic's Adventures
The classic Sonic we see in superstars and mania literally cannot be Modern Sonic for multiple reasons. Not saying Classic and Modern are different but I am saying Gens probably caused a split in the timeline and that split makes mania and superstars happen but those games never happen to modern.
At this point the Sonic series is pretty much the video game adaptation of Back To The Future continuity-wise
I like how one video created some sort of classic sonic debate renaissance.
Remember two years ago when people thought Classic Sonic had been retconed to be a Sonic from another dimension and fans hated that? Remember how people said it'd be so much easier if it was just Sonic from the past?
Well, Sega listened and retconed the retcon. And now what are the fans saying? I can't help but feel bad for Sonic Team, trying to please the unpleaseable crowd.
In fairness, it's not exactly fans changing their minds, it's just that whenever one group of fans gets upsets about something, Sega overcompensates to appease them, which in turn causes another group of fans to complain. Take Sonic's friends for example; people called them all "Sonic's stupid, annoying and useless friends", so instead of improving them and making them better, they instead just shoved them all to the sidelines and flanderized their personalities to make them as "annoying and useless" as these detractors always thought that they were, which in then angered the people who actually liked them!
There's always a better way than just scrapping something entirely! Sega should never allow the most negative of nay sayers ultimately dictate what the Sonic series can and can't be; that just leads to disaster!
No dice in this case, the fanbase is 95% not at fault here. Another dimension was always a localization error, so there was no retcon to fix. The people behind the scenes should have known that the western feedback is complete bull and invalid because Forces was written in japanese, but because of their incomprehensible internal structure in managing both the brand image and the canon lore, they accepted it and gave a second retcon to something that did not even have a first retcon, messing it all up. It is overcompensation by the mere fact that they compensated for...nothing.
Stuff like this is why other IPs usually stick to their languages of origin and disregard localizations completely outside of vague mythology references akin to how SA2 made the name Robotnik canon.
@@lpfan4491 A fair point, but I still think that toxic fan behaviour doesn't help matters.
It was these types of fans who were whining that Sega should bring back Sonic's older design, and Sega obliged. Not because it benefits the story or lore of the series, but just to appease whiney fans.
It was also these types of fans who were demanding that Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic should be two separate characters, and again Sega obliged by claiming that Classic Sonic comes from a separate dimension from Modern, and all of the Classic games take place there. Again, this doesn't benefit anything in the series, it ironically causes more confusion than it's supposed to solve, and it's all just to appease whiners who refuse to accept that they're the same character.
And despite the fact that many concerned fans have mentioned how this hurts the narrative of the stories more than helps it, but the people at Sega just don't seem to care. And the reason that they don't care is because they're constantly being told by overly critical critics, Sonic haters and detractors, and tragically even some Sonic fans that "nobody plays Sonic games for the story! The story is ALWAYS too convoluted and cringey, with too many stupid characters and cutscenes that NO ONE cares about! Sonic was so much better when it was just Sonic stops Robotnik; that's all a Sonic ever was and that's all a Sonic game ever should be!"
And if you disagree with these statements, then tough titty! Your opinion apparently isn't as important as the ones of these people who aren't even that fond of Sonic. That just feels wrong.
Granted, Frontiers was a great game that finally breaks this mindset and actually feels like it's putting actual effort into the story, but it's still taken them over a decade to figure it out, and even then you can still tell that Sega are only lightly tipping their toes into ideas such as other playable characters and giving them actual worthwhile things to do in the story
@sikosonix9013i think you mean please both classic and modern fans. not really “everyone”
Actually, Sega didn't retcon the retcon. Classic Sonic was always from the past. The idea of him being from another dimension was a translation mistake. Kinda like how Silver said Tails "lost it" in Sonic Forces (he's supposed to say he went missing).
Sega is not just a greedy company so what if they have green hill in every sonic game its a call of nostalgia from people who got the first game on release and having to separate sonics is good because it gives us more opportunity to have different variations of the games
Ehh. While I this is your opinion and you’re completely entitled to it, I don’t think it’s that much of an issue and this is more of a you just don’t like classic Sonic more than Classic Sonic is holding the series back. Modern Sonic’s woes have been more SEGA’s meddling than anything (short development cycles, not big enough budget, understaffment etc). And as much as you wanna say Classic is pandering classic Sonic literally saved Sonic with mania. If 3D Mario and 2D Mario can coexist and be great then there’s no reason Sonic can’t as well. As long as the games are great and SEGA doesn’t get in Sonic Teams way and let them cook on the ideals of both play styles then it’s fine and a win for the series overall.
Sonic Generations 3Ds was the last 2D modren Sonic game and if you don't want to count that you can count Colors Ds because it's defrinte than the Wii version in every single thing except they share the same locations
I think the nostalgia pandering is not classic sonic's fault, not per se. Classic sonic can be original and move the series forward, superstars is proof of that, its a known formula and its doing something different, so it being classic sonic does not mean that its not original or it hinders the series. If recent sonic games made nostalgia pandering but with the adventure era, it would be as bad as the classic nostalgia pandering.
Also, experimentation can still be made, in 3d and in 2d. Classic sonic could be used to make games with the classic formula, and modern 2d games could be different spins on the classic formula.
Classic sonic is doesn't need to die, because he can be as original as modern sonic. Even today, the classic artstyle is unique to classic sonic, same thing with modern.
They have their unique characteristics, so why not have both?
What this series need is to leave the nostalgia bait behind, and utilize the uniqueness and what makes both classic and modern sonic good to its advantage
Nah nah, classic Sonic is modern Sonic!
My problem with classic Sonic is they’ve done almost nothing to innovate his gameplay
What do you mean exactly? What would count as innovating classic gameplay?
@@mariocraft3067 Introducing more items or mechanics, I guess. Mania didn't really innovate all that much, but then again, it wasn't searching to do that, but rather combine many elements from the final or prototype versions of classic sonic games that came out before advance all into one experience. I suppose Superstars will innovate in a way the other games didn't, but we'll just have to wait and see.
@@ClassicssgamesGameplays drop dash was an amazing move for classic
I guess it depends how you look at it....
If Modern Sonic games are gonna go full 3D, then I'd say he needs to stay to keep the 2D aspect of Sonic fufilled. If Modern is gonna be half and half, then Classic may as well backseat for a while
I don’t get your point. Having two different styles of Sonic is pretty great. Classic for 2D platforming, Modern for high speed action. The franchise is growing regardless off Sega’s “nostalgia” practices. And do you honestly care about lore? It’s a sonic game
I still stand by the opinion that there's no real reason for Classic Sonic to still exist, no offense to those who like it. First, I don't like the fact that they have to limit 2D Sonic in this Classic style, when there's been 2D games that evolved the gameplay style like Advance or Rush. Second, Mania didn't even sell that crazy, compared to Frontiers (heck even Forces sold better), so at that point why still hold on to that if modern is clearly more profitable than Classic.
Hey quick question. Do you think classic sonic should have a 3d game and if it does what would you think about it
THANK YOU! Glad to see that somebody gets it!
Its not always about the money sometimes its about creating fans so you can do bigger things later
@@Super_star_remix There are times though, when it doesn't feel like Sega are appealing to fans; more like haters and detractors. Namely the people who refuse to play modern games because they're always complaining about "that ugly, stretched out, green eyed imposter!" Ask yourself, do these kinds of whiners really deserve to be catered to? Should they be the ones who can ultimately dictate what can and can't be in the Sonic series?
@@bowmaj8666true but there are some people that prefer momentum based game play
I think why people hate superstars is because the leaks said that the game would be 2D modern sonic game and we where surprised and the good part is that this game is a sequel to mania and it’s made by sonic team kinda so this shows they can do it and the game has original stages something worth buying the price of the game might be expensive but we wanted a mania 2 sequel but forces ruined classic sonic and frontiers brought the nostalgia back and sonic team horrible not existence marketing make us the discuss this game to death this wil confuse sonic team and not knowing what we want
sonic is sonic 👍 🤨 👍
If Silver and Blaze aren't going to appear in the modern games, then by all means, give me more CLASSIC Sonic, I'm sick of modern Sonic always taking the spotlight away from the other characters in the series.
Awesome video, man.
Sonic fans are (kinda) getting sick and tired of Classic Sonic.
Good thing I'm becoming a indie game developer, and if Sega/Sonic Team doesn't know how to make a good Sonic game or doesn't know how to make a new and original IP game outside of Sonic The Hedgehog, or if Sega/Sonic Team almost made a good Sonic game, but then it has problems on release, I might make a bad-ass/edgy, aquatic 3d platformer that's a mix between Sonic The Hedgehog and Splatoon.
I can’t say I understand why people are getting “tired” of classic Sonic when his only shorhorned appearance was in Forces. I can understand the Green Hill/Chemical Plant fatigue if that’s what you’re/they’re saying.
@mariocraft3067 Sonic fans are getting sick and tired of the same-old stages for Sonic games over-and-over again that SEGA knows Sonic games will sell like hotcakes.
@@keeganmcfarland7507 Very true, especially unfortunate considering that even classic fans don’t seem to like the constant shoehorning of these elements either. SEGA probably just puts them in to make the game more instantly recognizable as a Sonic game.
@mariocraft3067 Also, aren't you going to respond to my comment on me becoming a indie game developer?
@@keeganmcfarland7507 Is there a reason I should? Like, your concept sounds cool, but that’s all I can really say. It would be cool if you had a demo I could look at that shows how your game could work in practice.
All the Classic Sonic stuff has already been solved. Mania’s ending actually takes him to encore mode. And they already said that Classic Sonic is Past Sonic. That might have just been a translation error or something. Also the ending cutscene doesn’t directly show Sonic Superstars taking place right after Sonic 3. It’s more of a hint for the fans because if it was I feel like it would be Sonic and Tails hearing about Northstar Island and going there instead of what we got.
Idk why people hate Classic Sonic nowadays just because why not but alr
While I do agree that classic Sonic is holding back the franchise, I also don't think he has to be completely abandoned. I think for the next classic Sonic game, should they choose to make it, they could make a 3d classic Sonic game, like Project Superstars, or Sonic Expedition. I know this is essentially just the Adventure formula again, but seeing as though Modern Sonic is probably going to continue using the boost in tandem with the spin dash, there's no way he'll ever get a true adventure game. Besides, who doesn't like the Adventure formula? Sega had originally planned to make Sonic Adventure into a 3d classic Sonic game anyway so they can use this opportunity to fulfill their long lost vision. I would LOVE to see a game like that, because it would actually evolve the 2d formula, instead of just being more of the same. They can get really creative in 3d too, whereas in 2d, you're kind of restricted. I have a strong feeling that the emerald powers aren't going to be that interactive, cause they seem to be pretty gimmicky, and classic Sonic is not meant to be gimmicky, at least, fundamentally. And let's face it, people in general prefer 3d over 2d, so I think a 3d classic Sonic game would honestly be an easy home run for Sega, and I hope they do it.
There we go someone who actually gets it
Nobody is saying "get rid of the Classic gameplay!" They just don't see the point in constantly reusing the old design like it's sacred or something.
Think about it, if Sega use the Classic designs, then they're denying a majority of the Sonic cast from appearing in that game because they don't have Classic designs. That hardly seems fair. And if they're going to introduce "New Classic" characters well then, that's an oxymoron. A character can't be Classic and new at the same time. Proof that the word "Classic' is being used as a mere marketing term; basically "Not Modern, so therefore good!"
Why thank you@@kyledcreatorofficial
@sikosonix9013EXACTLY!!! See what I mean? It would be GENIUS for Sega to make a 3d classic Sonic game.
@@bowmaj8666That's actually a very good take on this situation. I couldn't agree with you more. They really need to make all of their 2d games Modern from now on, in the Advance/Rush style, but I still really hope that 3d classic Sonic game happens!!
I can honestly say if there is ONE thing that they need to do with Classic Sonic, is to get the TRUE origins of Sonic. What I mean is how he was born with Super Speed, where is he originally from, does he still have family. I know Sega has those stupid rules, but after 30+ years, I think it's finally time we get some answers, and not just from the movies.
4:50 blud rlly thought he could escape from sonic 4
It definitely feels like the only reason Classic Sonic is still around is because of nostalgia pandering. Although, as long as Classic Sonic doesn’t appear in the 3D titles and stays relegated to the 2D games, then I can live with that. I just don’t want another repeat of Forces where he’s just there for no good reason.
I think classic sonic should mix with modern at sometimes but they should make it original
I agree so much in forces classic sonic should have been given a role to play in the story it feels genuinely disrespectful to classic sonic and sonic as a whole to botch him so much like they did
Let's be real: Classic Sonic ruined Sonic Colors before he was even created with just how 2D that game is
4:51 "The last modern 2D Sonic game was Sonic rush Adventure"
Sonic 4: And I take that personally
Considering Sonic 4 was also made by the same developer who made the rush series. (Dimps)
Random fun fact: sonic 4 is technically a modern sonic game
Here's My Full Classic Sonic Timeline:
Sonic 1
Sonic 2
Sonic CD
Sonic 3 & Knuckles
This is Where The Timeline Splits Off
Timeline A:
Sonic 3 & Knuckles (If You Didn't Get All The Chaos Emeralds)
Sonic Mania (True Ending)
Sonic Forces
Sonic Mania Plus (Encore Mode)
Timeline B:
Sonic 3 & Knuckles (If You Did Get All The Chaos Emeralds)
Sonic Superstars
Timeline ?:
Sonic Mania Adventures
Sonic Generations
Everyone on the "Classic Sonic needs to die" bandwagon is just overthinking the whole thing. Looking for reasons to complain.
Gotta get my money up them gas prices be wild
Oh my god, Classic Sonic/Superior Sonic should never be insulted.
I’m just saying this because I kinda don’t like the way you said “Superior Sonic”, I do respect your opinion, though. But Classic Sonic isn’t the superior Sonic, but nor is Modern Sonic. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.
Wouldn't it be cool if we just had ONE Sonic.
Yeah I want Classic Sonic to go too. He was cool in Generations and Mania but now he feels pretty stale. I'm sure Superstars will be a good game but honestly I don't really care to much about it because it just looks like the same thing. I feel like Sonic has had a bit of an identity issue recently. Frontiers looks good, but it doesn't feel very Sonic to me. The worlds are generic, the music is generic, it doesn't have the same flare other games had like Colors or Unleashed. Superstars I kind of feel the same way. It doesn't strike me with a real identity.
Classic sonic started it all before there was classic sonic there was just sonic him he's the best and he should stay
I respect your opinion but I have to disagree because their are people who enjoy the classic games and their aesthetic while also not being interested in the modern games and getting rid of it will likely hurt the fanbase more as a whole; their isn't any reason why classic games can't come out with modern because there are being worked on by different developers while also taking into account classic games likely being made in between the gap of modern games for the sake of more quality which works to keep Sonic fans satisfied.
I do agree that green hill and other stages have been overused but we also see that Frontiers aesthetic and Superstars are more focused on creating new stages and styles that match the story and theme of the respective games.
It is likely that after Forces Classic Sonic's timeline branches into a parallel timeline that is different from Modern Sonic's past which gives more opportunities to add classic characters like Mighty, Ray, and the Hooligans which haven't appeared or been mentioned in the Modern era.
said something similar
I don't even know anymore, I have no idea what to decide.
After superstars SEGA should forget about classic sonic
Maybe Superstars takes place after Mania?
This debate is kind of weird, since “Classic Sonic” has a single, defined character and gameplay style, wheras “Modern Sonic” has had multiple designs, characterizations, and gameplay styles. Nobody wants their favorite flavor of Sonic to be abandoned, but SEGA can’t possibly compensate for everyone.
I suppose in this sense, even as a primarily classic Sonic fan, I have to admit it would be unfair for the series to have a 50/50 split with “Classic” and “All the other stuff”. Superstars and Mania are fine by themselves since they have been the only classic style games in over 2 decades, so I think they should focus on something like Adventure 1/2 style gameplay next since fans have been waiting ages for that.
Sega will throw new ideas of the window because of classic sonic: sonic super stars walks in
My point exactly
Listen they have made very good 2d games since then like mania and superstars let them expand there ways of making games until the get it right it may be a drag to here the same toon in your ear every year but at least they are trying hard to fix this classic sonic mess and from some of the comments views i can say that classic sonic is good and the sonic community loves it so don’t butcher it ok
I don't think they should ditch classic sonic completely but I think he should only get a game after a few modern games come out
The hate for Green hill zone i will never understand.
So in Sonic Forces, Tails did say about classic sonic, but he said DIFFERENT DIMENSION, not FROM THE PAST. So forces classic sonic isn't the real classic sonic. Though this is just a theory.
Sonic lore is complex, so you have Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Add Sonic Generations after this, and you kinda get the picture, including Classic Sonic beginning from Sonic Generations. (I know there are other problems) But, after Sonic Generations, Sonic Mania fits for Classic. After Sonic Mania, Sonic Forces. After Sonic Forces, you get 2 paths, Sonic Mania Onchore mode which Eggman’s ruining went undone. Finally, Sonic Mania+ Onchore mode leads to Sonic Superstars.
My Little Brother Now Hates you for at 1:50, you said you don't care about classic sonic
I hope Superstars' mediocre reception and not meeting sales expectations teaches Sega that they can't obsess over Classic Sonic. Classic Sonic is not the whole reason why Mania performed well. People love the Rush games.
They refuse to made adventure 3, one of their lost loved titles
See, i love classic sonic. He's a goofy lil guy, i just love his stylization back then when he was based off of old rubberhose characters. How he ran, th way he interacted with his surroundings, it was always so charming. I wish we could go back to that sort of sonic but then they gave him elbows and knees.
I agree, all the classic characters are amazing. classic eggman is actually a threat while modern eggman is literally the definition of participation reward recipient. classic tails is adorable and I will protect him with my life. classic amy is also the literal opposite of modern amy, as in she actually isn't annoying and more cute, she's just a kid in the classic timeline after all...they all are (with the exception of classic eggman and maybe classic knuckles)
Hey, I like BOTH classic Sonic and modern, the only thing I agree with you is that Sega should stop bringing back stages over and over. But here's something to chew on, no one wants to hear complaints unless they're valid!
You should consider moving out of that basement
stay mad
After watching the video, I agree. I agreed when Unleash started all of this a month ago. Fans need to know that classic Sonic is holding the Sonic series back. You may remember me from an old video commenting how I enjoyed Sonic The Hedgehog 4, more so episode 2 than 1, and that Superstarts should've been Sega redoing the Modern Sonic era for 2D gameplay. Those who can't see this are the ones that are helping hold Sonic back from venturing off into new terrain. We have Frontiers, that's great. However, why make a Sonic game about the Classic Sonic era and STILL find a way to give Sonic a homing attack ability? Just make it a Modern Sonic game at that point. After Classic Sonic returning in Forces for them to retcon him being a Sonic from a different dimension instead of his past self told us that just to implement Classic Sonic into a game, the writing suffers.
I'm... Okay with Sonic going the Call of Duty route by having two separate teams produce a new game for the divided fanbase when it comes to Classic and Modern. Unfortunately, doing this will hold the series back from truly expanding.
Imo I disagree because you can just make a headcanon and also classic sonic is their for the classic fans to stay happy. Even though I have never played a modern sonic game (unless you count Sonic rivals 2) classic sonic leaving the franchise will hurt it alot. SEGA is not dumb to ditch classic sonic because fans of him (such as me) will be bored and quit the sonic community. Just accept the fact classic sonic exists and if you don't want him included, just use mods.\
@@kyledcreatorofficial Classic Sonic was literally dead from late 90s to 2011 lol, and franchise was doing perfectly fine.
In my opinion, the best way to bring together this divided fan base is to make a brand new 2D game with the momentum based physics of the original games and Mania but with the Modern character designs. This way every reasonable Sonic fan will judge it on the gameplay, not what Sonic's damn eye colour is. And if there are people who cry "BUT ONLY CLASSIC SONIC CAN BE IN 2D! THOSE STINKY MODERN CHARACTERS HAVE RUINED IT! I WANT CLASSIC SONIC! GIVE ME CLASSIC SONIC OR I'M NEVER PLAYING ANOTHER SONIC GAME EVER AGAIN" then do these kinds of whiners really deserve to be appeased to? Is it honestly worth splitting the series and the fan base in two just because of these idiotic demands? I don't think so!
@sikosonix9013 I'm trying to come up with a better compromise. You say that having both Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic keeps everyone happy, but that's only on paper! The truth is, these Classic purists will praise the Classic games to high heaven purely based on bias, and will nitpick every aspect of the Modern games to death! And because Sega has a habit of taking away the wrong things from fan criticisms, my worry is that they're going to come to the conclusion that Modern games are just destined to fail, even when they're arguably at their best. There's not a single Modern game that every Sonic fan agrees is a good game. And we've even seen that for a while Sega had lost almost all faith in Modern Sonic, hence why every new game since Sonic 4 has had some kind of Classic imagery shoehorned into them.
All I'm saying is that if Sega makes a decent 2D game, with the momentum based physics of the original games but with a selection of playable characters, both Classic and Modern, so that it isn't just appealing to one fan base. What about people who don't care? I'm only suggesting that they use the Modern designs because it makes more sense to give characters like Mighty and Ray Modern designs than to give characters like Shadow or Silver Classic designs. Not to mention it makes more sense continuity wise. Seeing older characters interacting with newer ones seems like a great idea to me, but because of this Modern/Classic divide this will likely never happen.
@sikosonix9013 I'm not being aggressive or generalising. I'm just pointing out my experiences with Modern haters. Not all fans who like Classic Sonic hate Modern Sonic, but I'm not referring to them because they're not the ones who are denying a 2D game with the Modern character designs, because they don't care.
2:15
Buddy the whole green hill being in every sonic game was a joke that was made even before sonic genarations if there isn’t a green hill there will be some kind of paint job to make it look different like emerald hill or emerald coast and also in SA2 green hill is a playable level if you get all A ranks in every zone
Huh? 1:37 Yes but if you watch sonic mania adventures it continues from sonic forces ending where classic sonic gets teleported back to his area, so
The last 2d modern Sonic game was Generations for the dark 3ds.
For the most part at this point, as I’ve said multiple times now, I could care less about Classic staying or getting his own games as long as he never shares the spotlight with Modern again for no reason since that only should’ve happened in Generations, I do prefer how 3D and 2D were handled before Generations where the 2D games were just that but with Modern Sonic aesthetic like the Advance games, but again, as long as Classic is exclusive to his own games then I’m fine with him sticking around even if I’m tired of having to distinguish Modern and Classic, why can’t it be just Sonic
I agree at least unless classic sonic actually has GOOD writing being paired with modern sonic and actually HAS IMPORTANCE TO THE PLOT looking at forces for that stupid shit seriously forces could have followed up from manias true ending by having classic sonic have a mission of his own to get back to his home while simultaneously helping the modern cast save the day that would have actually given him PURPOSE in the story as he doesn't even do anything until the end and he is literally one of the four main playable characters in the damn game
First this is a very well put togather video and i think you have done a great job explaining your position
However i personally see this in a diffrent light, other large IP's like Mario, Zelda, and Metroid have 2 set syles one for 2D and 3D and they both have there reasons to exists, Sonic falls into that same light where there is both the 2D and 3D experinces so getting rid of classic sonic would be a loss of a particular style of gameplay that people would enjoy
On the flip side of that i completely agree with you that Classic Sonic has had too much of an impact on modern games, the whole point of having a game styled in 2D and another styled in 3D is so both games can do their own thing and stay in a particular gameplay Style, if Classic Sonic continues to influence modern Sonic both in gameplay and level design it will definitely hold the series back and going forward I'd love to see something brand-new that doesn't feature something from the classic games again. I also definitely think that it's high time that we do get a modern Sonic 2D game and let 3D sonic be enterily in 3D not throwing in random 2D sections. Id love to see the level desighn of the adventures games come back in that sense! Honestly the best outcome would be to have the best of all three world, having Classic Sonic continue as its own genre, having modern 2D Sonic games to fill in the gaps between big title releases and having a full 3d Sonic game that is its own brand new experience that evolves the franchise in many different ways maybe finally continuing what the adventure games laid out! But thats just my thoughts, I respect your position either way!
instead of separating the sonic’s they could’ve did like mario’s timeline.
The thing I can get by with Mario….that there’s no “Classic Mario”. It’s still the same Mario that exist in both 2D and 3D.
So why can’t Sega do the same with Modern Sonic?
@@johnoghomi1080 🎯
I mean they did try to do that in the 2000s but the classics fanboys didn’t like it
I always that the mania timeline was 1, 2, 3andK, Superstars, Mania, Forces, then Mania encore mode
I think they should simply just make less classic sonic games so more modern sonic games and when they are not busy with anything they can make a classic game
Ooh boy, where to start with this subject?
First of all, let's face facts here. The only reason that we even got a Classic Sonic in the first place is because whiney purists were complaining when Sonic 4 didn't bring back his old design and threw the mother of all hissy fits when that game wasn't exactly what they were expecting it to be, which was basically a direct sequel to S3&K as well as a giant retcon of all Sonic games from Sonic Adventure and onwards. There were whiners who were demanding that the old design and the newer green eyed one should be two separate characters, and the fact that Sega gave us exactly that in the very next game, Sonic Generations, is way too convenient to be a coincidence to me. That's either Sega giving into toxic fan demands, or them with money signs in their eyes knowing that they can profit from this, and have been doing so for the past decade, despite what this does to the series continuity and stories (which they likely don't care about anymore because overly critical critics are always saying "nobody cares about the stories of a Sonic game, just the gameplay!)
Second of all, people really need to stop acting like they're two different characters. People always seem to bash Modern Sonic for being "too different" to what Sonic used to be, and then praise Classic Sonic to high heaven for being exactly like they remember from "the good ol' days." However, if you look at the way Classic Sonic acts in games like Generations and Forces, there's clearly something different. Like the way he runs; a jaunty little jog with a happy little smile on his face. Compare that with the way that he runs in the intro and ending to Sonic CD; all the speed, all the action, and sheer determination to reach his destination and do the right thing, and all with a cocky and confident smirk. Yet people always go nuts for Classic, saying things like "Yeah, no storybooks and swords, no werehogs, no snogging human princesses, no guns and swearing, no emo edge lords and no saying baldy nose hair; in fact no talking at all! That's MY Sonic, not that green eyed freak of an imposter!" They're judging Classic Sonic on what he isn't, rather than what he is. If you take him for what he is, he's no better or worse than Modern Sonic, because Sonic IS Sonic!
Which brings me to my third point. Why is it that whenever Modern Sonic is in a bad game, people instantly blame the design, rather than bad ideas or programming? The fact that the main thing that people complained about with Sonic 4 was Sonic's damn eye colour just makes me roll my eyes! As if the mere addition of Classic Sonic would've saved that game. People dismissed that game before it was even out. Whereas games such as Generations and Mania were heralded as amazing games before they were even out. Even Superstars is getting the same treatment, and it's all because it's marketed as a Classic Sonic game.
Which brings me to my last point. This whole Classic/Modern divide is just all way too divisive among Sonic fans. I've spoken to a lot of fans who support this divide who disagree, and they always give the exact same answer. "It works because Classic fans get what they want in one series, and Modern fans get what they want in the other! And everyone is happy!" However, that's not the case at all. For starters, the main rule seems to be that it should be Classic for 2D and Modern for 3D. Well already that has singled out a majority of the Sonic cast from ever appearing in a 2D game ever again. Many people were hoping for characters such as Shadow, Rouge or Silver to be in a brand new 2D Sonic game, but because Superstars is marketed as a Classic game, that's not going to happen, and if only Classic can be 2D, then they never will! How is that fair? And considering the fact that Sega simply doesn't want to include them into any 3D games either (thanks to the "Sonic's stupid friends" crowd who Sega seems obligated to appease) the chances of them being used ever again are slim to none! Then these advocates say "No, Modern characters can be in 2D games, but they have to have boosting or homing attacks in them! They can't have the momentum based physics of the original games and Mania, cos that's Classic only!" Again, it's this "Classic can only be this, and Modern can only be that" crap that's putting unnecessary limitations on these games.
What is so wrong with a 2D game with the momentum based gameplay of Mania but with the Modern character designs? This way you aren't purposefully dismissing the majority of fan favourite characters. You can have Shadow, Rouge, Cream, Blaze Silver or the Chaotix, but you can also have characters like Mighty, Ray, Fang, and even this new character, Trip; they just need to updated designs, just like every other character has had, which is basically just slightly longer proportions, more detailed shoes and gloves and coloured irises. Is that really such a big deal? Are fans honestly going to complain about that? If anyone says "but where's Classic Sonic?" The answer would be simple. "He's right there! He just has longer proportions and green eyes now!" It's utterly ridiculous to me that there is such a large number of Sonic fans who straight up refuse to accept this.
Ain't no way people are reading this mate.
@@pinhe4d321 Ok, short version; people are way too clingy with Classic Sonic. It's a mere character design, not an entirely separate entity. Treating them like they're separate is just putting unnecessary limitations on these games.
@@bowmaj8666 I'm tired of this "Limitation," bull crap, Classic Sonic is not limiting the Sonic Series.
@@leticianeal9147 "Can't use Modern characters in a 2D game cos only Classic Sonic can be in 2D from now on!"
That is putting limits on the characters that Sega can use!
Eh... Considering what I know of the continuity of this entire series from Sonic 1, I think you are drawing the wrong conclusions. Classic sonic never really "held back" the franchise, here. The actual problem is that this series never gave a damn about continuity and is only recently trying to justify itself, creating problems.
Take the first three games for instance. Did you know that "the chaos emeralds" were never intended to be these singular entities, but stones unique to each landscape the game takes place in? Yeah, the reason Sonic 2 has 7 emeralds instead of 6 is because they are completely different "chaos emeralds" from the ones in Sonic 1. They only started becoming these established, singular entities around the time Sonic Adventure was released, and that game was arguably the first to do some major retcons of the classic series, for what little was there to begin with.
Then years later, Sonic Origins comes out and says they were always like that the entire time and one emerald was simply missing.
Not to mention how Sonic has an entire timeline of events with the gamegear/master system games that literally nobody in the modern day acknowledges as existing, only now Sonic Superstars kind of remembered that Fang was a character that existed.
Then you had the shit with Sonic '06 where Blaze the Cat's backstory was completely different, all because the devs literally forgot Sonic Rush was a thing.
Then games like Sonic Colors and Lost World more or less abandon the darker/edgier track established by games like Sonic Adventure 2 to being more like the type of tone/settings of the classic games because they realized the whole concept of "what if Sonic's world was real" was a dumb idea that created many issues with the plot of the games.
My point here is that Sega/Sonic Team never really made these games with continuity in mind, which is partially deliberate since, from the get-go, they wanted each new Sonic game to be its own experience.
As for stuff like the inclusion of Green Hill in every game, that's actually not a new trend. It's pretty much Sonic tradition for the first stage to take place in some green tropical environment, and even older games like Sonic Adventure 2 has Green Hill as a playable bonus stage. The "nostalgia pandering" was going on for a loooong while, way longer than with Generations, SEGA just hasn't been so overly blatant about it as they are now.
Honestly think they should have ended the classic sonic cannon with mania. Mania just felt perfect and had the perfect beginning and end
Classic sonic is not the problem for the nostalgia pandering..the problem is sonic team not trying to be creative with world building..
The solution is that sonic team should be creative and create new and original environments not eliminating classic sonic
Wait, if Superstars is seemingly going to take place after Sonic 3, when will Sonic Triple Trouble take place? Will it be retconned in order for Superstars to be Fang’s first canonical appearance?
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@@CoolSonicShows Sonic Triple Trouble takes place right after Sonic 3. If Sonic Superstars is going to take place after Sonic 3 instead, when will Triple Trouble happen?
Hey man.. I'm really sorry that there hasn't been a good modern sonic game in 12 years. Hope you get one soon 😊
Sonic Frontiers is the best Sonic game ever made what's your point?
Sonic Frontiers:
I don’t see why he can’t co-exist. People need to chill, but that doesn’t excuse the quality of the content we are getting. Origins was mid and kinda a rip off, Superstars seems fine, but for $60 it ain’t topping Mania.
I agree the nostalgia pandering is AWFUL and hurts the franchise as a whole. Having “all new zones” shouldn’t need to be a selling point, it should just be a given. This is why I’m never on the sonic hype train anymore, it feels stuff is always “good enough” or fine*.
Sonic superstars is after sonic origins but the last game in that collection isn't sonic 3, it is the last game gear game and classic sonic 's sonic generations timeline and sonic mania are after sonic 3 & knuckles
I think you misinterpreted what Sega is doing. It’s not Sonic, it hasn’t been since generations. They briefly brought him back in Mania, but that’s it. Classic Sonic isn’t Sonic. He’s an imposter, and his name is Santiago. I’d be fine if they brought back the old Sonic, but Santiago needs to go. They need to get rid of Santiago.
NAH,Superstars is after Mania💀
origins says otherwise lmao
3:48 That means I'll get a 3-day absence if Sonic Superstars fails, I'm really worried about this game.
I’m going to be honest, if they abandon classic sonic i might just give up on the franchise. I adore all of the 2d games including mania and superstars and they are the only thing keeping me from hating sonic. If they just stoped making them i’d be extremely disappointed
There’s credence to this. I’d have to say there’s no reason for Classic Sonic to exist if anything. Sure you can call it a personal bias of mine, but you can still have Modern Sonic exist on two different plains (2D and 3D). We’ve seen this happen with Advance and Rush, so there should be no reason why Sega would be reluctant in doing that.
Tbh, I feel like you can spread your imagination a lot more when doing Modern Sonic. Whether it be the gameplay systems, or exploring new/ well known characters, or albeit create new stages.
Exactly! If Sega use the Classic designs, then they're limiting themselves to a small handful of other characters (Mighty, Ray, the Chaotix, Fang.)
Yet if they use the Modern designs, then they can use any character that they like. They can even give these "Classic" characters updated designs (longer proportions and coloured irises) so that they can appear too. I personally think it'd be fun to see characters who haven't met before rubbing shoulders and letting their unique personalities bounce off of one another. Imagine Mighty interacting with Shadow, or Fang interacting with Rouge. Only Classic purists are going "oh no no no! Classic characters MUST stay Classic!" It's all just setting unnecessary limitations on these games.
@sikosonix9013 The point is that Classic Sonic did evolve! He evolved into Modern Sonic. Yet because there are so many people who refuse to accept that, they're demanding that Sega evolve him into something else.
@bowmaj8666 And Modern Sonic fans tend to even be just as petty or more than Classic purists.Let's not forget the quill debate
@@kingtiger5040 To be honest, I didn't even notice that Sonic's quills were a slightly different length (emphasis on SLIGHTLY!)
But if you're a person who works at Sega, and you're getting fans complaining about the length of Sonic's quills, what do you do? Well for starters, you don't have meetings with the higher ups to discuss how long Sonic's quills should be! You don't create two separate Sonics with two separate quill lengths to appease different fans! What you do is you roll your eyes and ignore that nonsense!
Which is what they should've done when fans were bitching about Sonic's damn eye colour in Sonic 4. That game had plenty of problems, but the colour of Sonic's eyes wasn't one of them!
@sikosonix9013 What do you mean?
I’m ok With new Classic Sonic games, But I think they should limit the Classic Sonic stuff and keep Classic out of Morden Games. And if Sega makes more 2d games they should make them Morden and just introduce classic inclusive characters ( Like Mighty Ray Trip etc) in the Morden games.