Big 12 at 24 / THE BEST OUTCOME POSSIBLE
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SMU will never be invited unless another Texas schools leaves. The current 4 Texas schools would all veto SMU and the remaining Big 8 schools do not want the conference to become too Texas-centric.
At this point I don't think SMU wants anything to do with the Big 12 for all those times when the Big 12 had to add schools and didn't even look at SMU. They would rather drop football before going there. Too many bridges have been burned for them to ever join.
I agree with you.
Chevy SMU has been trying to get in the Big 12 since it started, big 12 wanted nothing to do with SMU.
@@jonathanlowrie7728 I hafta admit...a conference with the ancient Fort Worth - Dallas rivalry would add some spice ...and far flung as the current , and likely future Big12 conference is and will be..adding the Dallas market with A less than dominating presence ala Southern Methodist University wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing...I SAY BRING BACK THE BATTLE OF THE SKILLET!...conference STYLE!😉
Truth. The only reason why Houston was added was because UT left. OU and another non-Texas team left instead Houston would not be considered.
I don't know, Arizona State Red Devils and Duke Blue Devils in the same conference means there will be hell to pay!
Red Devils? Arizona State are the Sun Devils. My high school in Springville Utah is the Red Devils
Isn't the sun red hot?@@mattparker2323
I was listening until you went SMU, BigXII aint falling for the SMU trap, they could of added them instead of Houston or Cincinnati a few years ago. The last team getting in, inside your scenario would be Stanford, Cal, Oregon St, or Washington St, all ahead of SMU
Good so you do see the slant and how they are setting up the power 2
Pitt, Louisville, Cuse, VT, NCSU, GT, & Miami all make sense
Agreed and Duke
Swap Duke with Syracuse and I agree.
@@drgat6953 I could definitely get with that.
If 24 is the number, Oregon State and Washington State should get a spot on partial shares
NEED TO BRING BACK THE BIG EAST CONFERENCE.
This is without doubt the best expansion breakdown I’ve seen! I believe in the end, some configuration of three 24 team leagues like this model will determine the CFP. Well done Sir!
What’s funny is, if FSU, Clemson, UNC and Miami just left the terrible ACC deal and joined the big 12, they would likely make an extra 35-40 million a year. Which would put them at the same number at the SEC. Making 3 power conferences making reasonably the same $$$
nice job as always Mark!
SDSU is better for recruiting than SMU. SMU is to close to TCU.
SDSU 💪
I actually have a ideal big 12 realignment have 4 groups of 6 they all play everyone in their group and 1 each from the other 3 and the last week of the season the 4 highest teams in each group will play to go to the conference championship game
Nebraska sure was forward thinking back in the day. Would be the interesting to see if they'd get a BIG invite from the XII today....
Uh no…Nebraska is making exponentially more in the B1G
@@turdfurgison149 for sure making hell of a lot more then the mess VII is in but would the BIG want them today you think?
@@EnzoMoresi-mj8bc not at their current state performance-wise, but the university brings in a bucket-load of cash regardless
Nebraska has become irrelevant in the B1G. It’s sad say, and see but I guess it’s all about the 💰
Duke? Not feeling that program and all its baggage. If your looking to add a basketball focused program with occasional football relevance, I'd rather see San Diego St added and bring in some California recruiting/market and that 4th time zone. SMU? Too many Texas teams already and what do they really add in terms of additional viewers and additional recruiting? Syracuse, Memphis, UConn, Wake Forest, even Boise St...all of those would make more sense.
Other than that I'm down with your proposal.
SDSU 💪
If adding 8…6 from East. Pitt, Louisville, VT, NCST, Miami and GT. I’m a firm believer that WSU and OSU would fit in far better than Calford…
Memphis Boise need to be added at some point.
Up until this year, the only FBS conference in relatively modern times to expand to 16 or more members was the WAC in the late 90s - and it was a disaster from the beginning. It led to the WAC losing half its members (including most of its long-time members) after just a couple of seasons, and it eventually led to the WAC ceasing to exist as an FBS conference. For this reason, I don't think that any of the conferences who expanded to 16 or more this year will add any more schools for at least the next few years. They're going to see how being such a big, far-flung conference will work out first.
I think 20 maybe 21 is the upper limit of what a conference should be. Beyond that you are looking at a league.
I like how this looks. You've put it together very well. This is getting pretty interesting. I hope it can happen very soon. Hey Mark, do you have a brother named Karl? I was in the airforce with him and he looks just like you.
I’m all for it if the new conference would have four divisions and then a mini playoff for conference championship.
your looking for a fix, lets start by putting OKST in the west and putting ISU in the Central. Due to the rising costs of travel i think ISU has to be central so that means either OKST or a Texas school go West. Now maybe you pull KU, KSU and ISU and send 3 Texas schools. But with OKSTs location *out on its own with no paring*, it makes the most sense to swap and you can still keep the Texas schools together.
then the East id send Lousiville and Probably Cincy to the central again geography, sending Miami and UCF East. you will still have room on the schedule for maybe a forced yearly Rivarly game between Cincy and Pitt or however you want, and again the goal with the rising costs of travel is to limit the amount of traveling a team has to do.
If these are the 24 teams, I'd go with:
West: Arizona, Arizona St., Utah, BYU, Colorado, Texas Tech
Central: TCU, SMU, Iowa St., Kansas, Kansas St., Oklahoma St.
Atlantic: Houston, Baylor, Duke, NC St., Miami, UCF.
East: WVU, Pitt Louisville, Cincinnati, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech
Massive conference. I'd be on board with this or a 20 team league IF there was promotion/relegation. Big 12 Premier and the Big 12 First Division.
If a twenty team league, split it into 2 ten team leagues. Worst team from Premier gets relegated. Premier members get boo-ku money while First Division teams get G5 level money.
Something similar if 24 team league but split into east/west 12 team league with promotion/relegation.
Big XII (until a new name is set)
West- U of A, ASU, UU, BYU, CU, TTU
Midwest- Ok St, ISU, KU, KSU, TCU, Baylor
East- Cin, Pitt, Lou, WVU, VT, Duke
Southeast- GT, UCF, Miami, SMU, Houston, NC State
The trips from both Dallas and Houston to Florida or Atlanta are easy.
SMU was going to the ACC anyway.
The Southeast keeps significant regional exposure.
The East is full of close, bitter neighbors that nearly all play an entertaining brand of football.
The Midwest keeps much of the Big 8 together with the additions of 2 Texas teams used to these opponents.
The West keeps important rivalries alive and TTU is the furthest west Texas school that already dislikes ASU.
The basketball is well spread out, with the exception of the Midwest, which will beat itself to death.
The people watching these games will be familiar and enjoy the brand of both football and basketball they will get in this combination.
Using 6-team divisions instead of 8-team divisions encourages more appearances in important media and recruiting hotbeds for schools in more sparse areas. This can potentially also serve to keep more schedule dates open for out of conference games with significant ratings up-side.
What do you think?
Why would any Tier 2 ACC flight risks move to the BIG12?
@@tarheel7406, because the Big XII is more aggressive than every other alternative, it offers more monetization options, has a more flexible media contract, and they still want to be in a legitimate power 3 conference when the ACC dies because it doesn't know how to write a contract.
@@kingbaldwiniv5409 Aggressive does not equate to effective. The BIG12 is now the worst P4 (by far) in athletics, academics, value and prestige. Within the realm of feasibility, the BIG12 can only get peer with a depleted ACC in football (Tier 2 will be fungible), men's basketball, and value. No way to close in overall athletics, academics and prestige.
There will be no peer P3. In context, the BIG12 is already dead. Until BIG12 fans accept these realities, you won't be able to move on.
@@tarheel7406, that's pretty funny because the media deals don't agree because the ratings don't agree with you.
Big XII sports have earned better ratings than the ACC. The ACC has squandered what assets it has through acquiescence.
The ACC has a hand-full of schools that try, and a lot of others that coast.
Academics are a non sequitur.
Nobody pays Rice and Tulane for their great academics. Stanford was left out and had to bottom-feed across the country to find a home.
The ACC is a distracted, disinterested proctor that allowed their inability to manage the market to drive away their best teams.
FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC and likely others will leave and the media dollars will not chase a crumbling product.
The ACC markets poorly, lazily, and it is so effete that it couldn't be brought to care until teams are walking out the door.
Private equity, the Big XII and FSU are both comfortable with it.
The ACC is not.
That avenue alone can subsidize the burial costs of the most myopic conference still standing. . . now that the Pac-X is an unpleasant cautionary tale for exactly the sort of people the ACC is constituted by.
Without "want to", aggressiveness, assets are meaningless.
The ACC is flat laconic.
@@kingbaldwiniv5409 Not hacking through a comment from someone with no self-awareness. The BIG12 is the benchmark for a former peer P5 that has fully depleted, backfilled, and survived. If the conference below can get ~$30M per, a Tier 2 ACC should easily:
WVU (small state low prestige flag)
CINCY (G5)
UCF (G5)
BYU (special/unique P5 remainder equivalent)
HOUSTON (G5)
IOWAST (low population state #2)
KSTATE (low population state #2)
OKSTATE (low population state #2, solid overall sports)
KANSAS (vanilla flag, blue basketball)
TCU (G5 equivalent)
BAYLOR (G5 equivalent)
TXTECH (G5 equivalent)
Is enough attention being paid to possible brand decline for some of these SEC/BIG potential additions? Some could become bottom feeders. Is the extra conference payout worth sacrificing long term success? Is there a point where being the king of the big 12 is better than becoming like Arkansas/ Nebraska in their new conferences? Just wondering what the dollar value is on having a winning tradition?
No SMU.
The SEC is looking at 4 states. North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia and Kansas. Make of that what you will. But you can go from there.
North Carolina and Virginia I can see being good markets. But why Kansas and West Virginia?
Sec is not looking at Kansas🙄
@@ardentlions6636 that's exactly what they said about Missouri. And yet they are in. The SEC is looking at 4 new states, and the flagship program from those 4 states. You do the math and see where it takes you. Then look at the new football stadium Kansas is building. You don't spend that kind of money to stay in the big 12.
I can see WVU and VT in the SEC💯. Not too sure about Kansas and NC.
All this is great talk, but $ has to be better to compete with the P2. I see 6 teams after August that bring no value to Big 12. Travel expenses also have to be considered.
I always thought 24 was the end goal. But hell to the no on SMU…Big12 would’ve took them already if they had value
Louisville correct pronunciation is LEW-vull. Lean into the LEW. youre welcome.
It is actually pronounced Looneyville. Because the fans are very delusional and are always an over rated team.
@@Drumwolf62 - love the CFB RIVALRY.
Bad idea.
Just re-name the Central to South.
If Sankey gets FSU & Clemson, you can crown them champions til the end of time. The Championship game would be the final SEC game. That's it! Over!
In other words bowlsby in ability to make meaningful expansion caused espn/fox to offer the big12 less money, so how exactly is yormark supposed to get top tier schools to join the conference how is it yormarks fault
Instead of two divisions go to four pods of five.
Central - Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Louisville, Cincinnati. West - Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, BYU, Texas Tech. East- West Virginia, Pittsburgh, VA Tech, NC State, Duke, GA Tech. South - Miami, UCF, Houston, Baylor, SMU, TCU
Gonna have to drop SMU, don't see XII adding SMU. SMU can survive in a future, yet weaker, ACC.
I was using the teams that he came up with
I see B1G getting FSU & ND, the SEC stopping after NC & Virginia.
Yormark gobbles up Clemson, Miami, Louisville, NCST, Duke, VTech, Pitt & Syracuse or GTech.
Clemson to the Big 12. Interesting.
@@MarkRogersVOCFB a little better balance.
Looks good except Clemson. That is too good of a program not to be in B1G/SEC
Lost me at SMU. Many of chances and never selected and would never happen unless “maybe” TCU left. BY would rather have UCONN.
Only possible if ND joins B1G.
I do not see more than 4 more teams being added due to dilution. Unless the Media Partners agree to keep the value raised by adding not four but eight schools. Unless you are talking Calford and four ACC schools. I cannot see adding eight schools without dilution imo. Pitt is borderline, top 2, not Miami (probably B1G) otherwise Miami, then Louisville, NC State, after that value is questionable at best. Two more teams that Brett Yormark / Media Partners deem at equal or better Big 12 value would be added.
TT replaces Iowa St in western 6.
Keep your BIG24 with your average teams and wave goodbye to Texas, OU, and Texas A&M (the actual teams that carried the BIG12). The Houston v. UCF game is probably already sold out.
This is rage bate huh?
Remove Duke and SMU and put in Or St and Wa St. new states and markets and time zone…
Don't see XII going larger than 20 schools. But I would take Duke / Oregon State and leave out WASU/SMU for sure.
OR State and WSU over Duke and SMU💯! Both should have been added this last go around.
seeing how non valuable teams 21-24 are, the Big XII will most assuredly not exceed 20 teams
Kick out SMU and add someone that has traditionally played for conference championship football and bowl games and so on. I don’t think ACC loses any teams to the Big12 first of all. I understand that they would do similar to Big12 and backfill and probably extend to renegotiate their contracts but actually might get a slight increase in revenue just like the Big12 did except nowhere close enough for the schools who want to leave or will have left.
With that said, if the Big12 was first to go to 24 teams and add 8 schools; this is who I add somewhat realistic expectations as Big12 not getting Miami, could be wrong but don’t think so. The others you mentioned would be on my list except SMU not needed and have VT going with UVA, and NCST with UNC, Clemson, Florida State, and Miami to the top two conferences in SEC and BiG10 with this hypothetical scenario.
The Adds:
Pitt
Louisville
Liberty
Memphis
Duke
App St
GT
Tulane
Big12 East
Cincinnati
Pitt
WV
Liberty
Duke
App Store
GT
UCF
Big12 Central
Louisville
Memphis
Tulane
OkSt
TCU
Baylor
Houston
TTech
Big12 West
Iowa St
Kansas State
Kansas
Colorado
BYU
Utah
Arizona
Arizona State
Is it perfect? No. Is it realistic for a hypothetical scenario and garnering the best possible football and basketball schools and other sports to get the Big12 as close as possible to the top two conferences? Yes, I think so.
Liberty🤣
@@ardentlions6636they beat Baylor at Baylor a few years ago. By the way this is about programs that matter and win. While last season they faced no one really, in previous seasons Liberty played Big12 and ACC schools and won and beat bottom of the conference BiG10 teams too, as an FBS independent before joining CUSA. They also blasted a good BYU team, who are always falsely claiming they have been P5/BCS/P4 caliber school in all sports especially football.
My list makes sense and adds value and clarity and regionality as I have them. SMU is a joke as are other schools currently in the ACC. I also don’t see anyway Miami, NCST, VaTech, and Notre Dame have any inkling to be part of the Big12 without landing in either the SEC or BiG10; which is where those four schools along with Clemson, Florida State, UNC, and UVA are probably headed to at some point down the road in a few years or so.
The Big12 has Christian schools and a Pagan Occult school in BYU, so adding Liberty makes sense. Memphis and other schools that are G5 I have listed kind of own the Big12 and ACC schools the past few years, and in some cases handedly.
Both the ACC and Big12 would be wise to consider the schools based on their ratings and viewership numbers being on par with multiple Big12 and ACC schools. Remember it’s about advertising revenue and revenue for networks that then adjust and distribute to the schools or conferences.
But I have said routinely that the ACC is not like the PAC and moreover like the Big12 and will backfill, renegotiate media deals but still have substantial revenue, and retain P4/A4 status, as no schools go to the Big12. Multiple ACC media outlets and journalists feel the same way or have reported that; and on top of that, many feel like 2-4 teams/schools are leaving and no other. If this transpires, look for the ACC to just shore up (no pun intended) the west coast with2-3 schools and add two gulf coast schools and maybe find 2-3 qualified east coast schools. This would force the Big12 to go back to G5 route to get some schools in the East between WVU and UCF. Because I believe that the end goal is to have as many schools that have or deserve Autonomy status in the P4 group conferences so can break away from the G5 and make D1 athletics into tiers 1, 2, & 3. This includes Olympic sports too.
Mark... The CFP distribution structure clearly already accounts for expected ACC depletion. There is no reason that I can see that suggests any ACC remainder leaves for the BIG12 if the ACC "only" lost those named four. CAL+2 are preemptive backfill to avoid having to do so.
FSU has more alumni and fans in the city of Miami than Miami has. So I don't see it as a new market if you get FSU.
Switch UL and SMU with Mia and UCF.
a) If the measure is "possible" rather than "feasible", why not go for OHIOST and BAMA?
b) The BIG12 is already too large and wide for a Tier 2. It may not have the gravity to keep its current 16. No way it can keep 24.
I would take 3 more schools from mountain and pacific time zones and five from the ACC. That way the Olympic sports could be split three ways into an EAstern division, a central division and a western division of eight teams each., with a end of season tournament in Dallas or Kansas City.
30 Team conference in pods of 10.
East is same as you have, but add Miami and UCF.
Midwest TT Baylor, TCU Houston, KS Kstate, OkSt IASt, CO St. CO.
West AZSt AZ, BYU Utah, Cal Stanford, WA St OR St, SDSU UNLV
I dropped SMU and added Cal, Stanford, Washington State, Oregon State, Colorado State, UNLV and SDSU. This adds Rivalries and Big population markets.
Utah, BYU, Arizona, and Arizona State would likely prefer some connection with some Texas schools.
Dump Duke and GT. Move Miami and UCF to East. Move Arizona and Arizona State to central, pick up Washington State and Oregon State for west
this is dumb, miami and ucf etc in central but more east than the teams he chose to be in the east smh
I can see you didn’t listen.
sorry thgat js total B.S. why the hell would they leave one jshjtty pay out to jojin another jshijtty payout? janswer nthey would not they would get absorbed by bg 10 and jsec.
If big 12 can get duke and north carolina that be great
Like Biden, I feel bad for Mark. He sounds lost and nonsensical. I love and respect the work Mark has done for the community for a couple of decades. This one is just nutty.
When it comes to big 12, this isn't the place to get your information. It's viewed as an inept second or third rate conference and they'll gladly tell you that. Not worth my time
I got
Pitt
Cincinnati
Louisville
West Virginia
Central Florida
South Florida
SMU
Houston
Kansas State
Baylor
TCU
Texas Tech
Washington St
Oregon State
San Diego St
Arizona St
Arizona
UNLV
Colorado State
Colorado
Boise State
Iowa St
BYU
Utah
With Kansas & Oklahoma State headed to the SEC with Clemson, UNC, Virginia, Virginia Tech, NC State, Duke.
Miami, FSU, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Stanford, California head to the B1G
First time watcher...no way 24...and Pitt is a bottom tier program now. Sorry. Stopped after that.
The Big12s best case scenario...is to ADD Oregon State, Washington State, Boise State..and absorb what it can of the ACC and rename the conference " the Big American Conference" ....
SDSU is a better brand and adds a better market than all 3 of those schools
@@charlielucey3333 If it was a better brand and market...one, the Aztecs would ALREADY be in a major conference as NO one in college football misses a moneymaker...TWO!...the city would STILL have the Chargers...and the Clippers...and quite frankly, possibilities aside...when was the LAST time SAN DIEGO STATE did the remotest dominating thing... in ANY sport?..aka Boise State or a BYU...Heck the Cougars played and built their way into a BIG12 member and they are located in FREAKIN' UTAH!!!😵.....Shame! San Diego!... SHAME!😤💀
@@brettrobinson2901 San Diego State is a better brand and market than Oregon State, Washington state or Boise state, which is why they’ll probably be added to P4 conference before any of those three schools will be. Oregon State and Washington state or just lucky decade to go to get into the PAC 10 conference when it wasn’t all about media dollars. San Diego State is located in a top 30 medium market and has over 500,000 living alumni, which directly relates Potential media, watchers, and alumni financial support. The other three schools don’t even have 500,000 living alumni altogether.
And it’s far as when San Diego State did something dominate in sports, it was just two seasons ago at San Diego State was in the national championship basketball game. When has any of those three schools ever done anything to compare to that? Never.
@@charlielucey3333 You've convinced me...I retract my conclusion... However ..after decades of being part of a major conference I still hope the two Pac12 left behinds find a suitable home...not a fan necessarily of either school but hate to see those two completely shutout as I think rebuilding the PAC conference to major conference status on its own very problematic... I still think since its trending in this direction that the BIG12 should merge with the ACC ( those who will come) the PAC 2 and the best of the rest into the first SUPER CONFERENCE... hopefully instead of being diluted it would have more bargaining power for TV rights...I can see the attraction of San Diego State especially in light of the lack of pro teams currently... Well excepting the Padres...
All these schools are trash, have to add Eastern schools to break into the early markets and keep the late markets
24 big ten 24 sec and 24 big twelve
Big ten
Big Ten: East Coast
- Rutgers
- Maryland
- Virginia
- North Carolina
- Georgia Tech
- Florida State
Big Ten: Great Lakes
- Penn State
- Ohio State
- Michigan
- Michigan State
- Indiana
- Purdue
Big Ten: Riverlands
- Minnesota
- Wisconsin
- NorthWestern
- Illinois
- Iowa
- Nebraska
Big Ten: West Coast
- Washington
- Oregon
- Stanford
- Utah
- USC
- UCLA
SEC: ATLANTIC
- West Virginia
- Virginia Tech
- NC State
- Clemson
- South Carolina
- Miami
SEC: East Gulf
- Florida
- Georgia
- Alabama
- Auburn
- Tennessee
- Kentucky
SEC: Delta
- Ole Miss
- Miss State
- LSU
- Vanderbilt
- Arkansas
- Missouri
SEC: Southwest
- Texas
- Texas A&M
- Oklahoma
- Oklahoma State
- Baylor
- Texas Tech
Big 12
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville
Cincinnati
UConn
Duke
Wake Forest
UCF
USF
Memphis
Tulane
Houston
TCU
SMU
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Colorado
BYU
Arizona
Arizona State
Cal
San Diego State
Next 16
FRESNO STATE
BOISE STATE
EAST CAROLINA
UAB
APP STATE
COASTAL CAROLINA
UTSA
TEMPLE
MARSHALL
OHIO
TOLEDO
AIR FORCE
NAVY
ARMY
OREGON STATE
WASHINGTON STATE
👆🏻💯
Miami who? Oh you mean that team that sucks in baskeball and had a little football dynasty decades ago. That Miami. LOL!!!