Are Sonic games actually good? - A newcomer's perspective on Sonic the Hedgehog
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- čas přidán 17. 02. 2019
- I didn't know drop dash was a thing.
Join me as I limp my way through and give my newly found take on most of what the internet deems to be good Sonic games.
Apologies for the quality drops around some of the Sonic Mania and Generations footage, I stupidly recorded most of my footage before checking to see if the settings were correct in OBS.
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Songs:
Stardust Speedway Bad Future from Sonic Generations
Green Hill Classic from Sonic Generations
Labyrinth Zone from Sonic 1
Chemical Plant Zone Act 1 from Sonic Mania
Hill Top Zone from Sonic 2
Metropolis Zone from Sonic 2
Sexually Suggestive Knuckles Theme by Swordy- / sexually-suggestive-kn...
Ice Cap Zone Act 2 from Sonic 3
Launch Base Zone Act 1 from Sonic 3
Doomsday Zone from Sonic 3
Bigarms/Deathegg Robot from Sonic 3
Stardust Speedway Bad Future (US) from Sonic CD
Collision Chaos Present (US) from Sonic CD
Tidal Tempest Present (US) from Sonic CD
Boss theme (US) from Sonic CD
Wacky Workbench Past (US+JP) from Sonic CD
Sonic Boom (US) from Sonic CD
Stardust Speedway Zone Act 2 from Sonic Mania
Flying Battery Zone Act 1 from Sonic Mania
Chemical Plant Zone Act 2 from Sonic Mania
Studiopolis Zone Act 1 from Sonic Mania
Metallic Madness Zone Act 2 from Sonic Mania
That's The Way I Like It ...For Metal Harbor from Sonic Adventure 2
Then there's a bunch of Sonic Adventure 2 music from the cutscenes
Space Trip Steps ...For Meteor Herd from Sonic Adventure 2
Won't Stop, Just Go! ...For Green Forest from Sonic Adventure 2
Planet Wisp Modern from Sonic Generations
Crisis City Modern from Sonic Generations
City Escape Classic from Sonic Generations
Rooftop Run Modern from Sonic Generations
Quartz Quadrant Past (US+JP) from Sonic CD
This video is brought to you by going in and expecting to hate everything that's Sonic, and coming out as someone who's pretty interested in the franchise now.
Thanks for watching! - Hry
Well, thanks for actually playing the games and forming your own opinion.
THIS
YES
You know how many reviews I've read of Sonic games where they will literally admit to not having finished them?
Seriously, thank you for that. Not enough gamers actually do that anymore.
This levelheaded impartial perspective is indispensable for not just developers but any creative seeking critiques to help guide improvement. Thank you so much!
But everyone can agree that the music in Sonic games are pretty damn good
HELL YEAH!
@J Foster too sad a game without a good soundtrack isnt good at all
God tier soundtracks
kandk 9 CD has masterpiece music (Collision Chaos, Stardust Speedway, Palmtree Panic, and all the other zones).
matt the Japanese / European version of Sonic CD has the more catchy music imo.
I just cannot see the moon explosion scene without thinking "I'm pissing on the moon". The Internet ruined me.
I just played through SA2 and the exact thing went through my mind. That scene will never be the same
Lol same
I was playing it a few days ago and quoting every line from the dub.
_t h i s b i g_
I put hot sauce on everything from Twinkies to milk. It's what I do as the ultimate life form.
"I couldnt get my emul-
my Nintendo Wii..."
Yes.
"Sonic CD is the Majora's Mask of the Sonic games" maybe one of the sharpest hot takes I've ever heard on the franchise
But Majora's Mask is good.
Micaiah the Otaku Gamer [HybridAngelZero] I think shadow the hedgehog is the majora mask of sonic games.
@@edwardrobinson5470 I thought Shadow the Hedgehog was the Yoshi's Story
BagOfMagicFood You probably right.
That is a terrible comparison honestly. Sonic CD is more akin to Zelda II in the Zelda series.
You're just jealous that I had a Game Gear.
No! ...probably
The only game I even remember playing on mine was Robocop lol
The GameBoy is still objectively the best handheld console
Alex he is joking
@GOD OF ART It's gonna be alright my friend
The problem in my eyes is a lot of people go in to the classic sonic games with the mindset that sonic is all about "going fast" when the reality is that speed is just a character trait of sonic and a reward for good gameplay.
Yeah how foolish of me for expecting to go fast in a game thats entire marketing campaign revolved around going fast and whose protagonists catch phrase is "gotta go fast".
@@timmykookoo I mean you're absolutely right, Its not entirely the fault of the players,
@@timmykookoo thats like saying "how dare mario ask me to wait for platforms to jump, he should be jumping every second". You should go fast, that doesnt exactly mean it'll be easy
@@timmykookoo the "gotta go fast" thing didn't even come from the games. It came from Sonic X's (tv show) intro.
@@timmykookoo I mean that marketing thing was only ever a thing in the 90’s. Just look at the marketing for Forces, speed is barely mentioned.
And yeah,Sonic never says gotta go fast lol
Unfortunately, a lot of the things you dislike about the games are simply relics of a time when video games had a different philosophy - a lot of these games were meant to be played MANY, MANY TIMES because that's what we did in the 80's and 90's, so making levels where springs and movement mechanics are there as obstacles to overcome as you get better and better at the levels is where you truly start to enjoy how they're built around that PERFECT run. If anything they're much better when viewed from a glitchless speedrunning mindset.
How did I get into Sonic:
Me: I want a Super Nintendo for Christmas
Santa: I brought you a Sega Mega Drive because it's cheaper
How did I get into Sonic:
Autism
Eric Estevez wut? ... I mean, wut? The guy makes sense. Sonic games are bad in slow paced segments. Am not even a youtuber, dont be a jerky ^__^
Eric Estevez erm.... ooooook, stay salty my friend lmao
@@victor.elkins all s good buddy.
Eric Estevez combo breaker
Even though Sonic is technically a platformer first and a game about speed second, I can understand why most people don’t see it that way due to the advertising and the recent games not exactly going by that design philosophy. With that said, I can totally see why someone would prefer Sonic 2 to Sonic 3... Even if I disagree due to my love of exploration.
Unlike most people who talk about Sonic games as an outsider, you’re extremely respectful and don’t just bash for the sake of bashing. Instead of me thinking “this guy’s just an asshole” you made me genuinely want to hear what you were saying.
This was a great video!
Thank you! Finally someone who agrees with me that 3 & Knuckles is the best of the original series. 2 is amazing, but it's way overrated.
@@dapperfan44 Sonic 2 is underrated if anything. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is a fine game but it is way too long for what it offers. It just felt like Sonic Team giving in to the Nintendo-loving critics at the time who claimed that Sonic had no depth compared to Mario (i.e not enough padding and bullshit). Sonic 2 had just enough to satisfy me without becoming too bloated and it introduced a lot of the tropes that people associate with Sonic. Considering the limited amount of time Sonic Team had to work on the game thank's to Sega's management fuckery Sonic 2 turned out way better than it should have.
@REZ
I've never heard anybody claiming that early 2D Mario games had issues with padding. I mean about like 50% of Super Mario World is basically optional.
@@dapperfan44 and REZ Sonic 2 16-bit is a bad game because:
1. The level design makes it so you can't see whats up ahead, which leads into,
2. The game is filled with beginner's traps or in other words bad design that you learn to avoid after multiple play-throughs,
3. Horribly designed special stages,
4. Terribly cheap enemie placement,
And 5. (Somthing they mentioned in the video) cheap deaths due to unfair stage hazards and that tornado section.
Sonic 3 and K. Is just better objectively due to the game lacking most of the issues I listed. That being said it is nowhere near perfect in fact it shares the 5. problem I listed for Sonic 2 16-bit with Sonic 2 16-bit. Also, as for the best and worst classic Sonic games, Mania is the best designed and Sonic 2 8-bit is the worst. One more thing, i'm am coming from the perspective of which is the better Designed game, not the the game I had the most fun with. (heck the classic Sonic games are my second least favorite style of Sonic personally, (with boost being number 1.) since i'm not the biggest fan of the overly momentum heavy gameplay of those games.)
That is all I wanted to say.
@@gungeonrider1786 1-4: Git gud skrub
also that's not sarcasm. Seriously, don't treat Sonic like you can just run around everywhere and not face any danger.
"Copyright infringement" zone omg what a perfect name for death egg
Finally, some praise for the music in Knuckles's stages! These days it seems like everyone I see talking about them thinks they're terrible songs because of the silly lyrics, but I think they're bangers, plus musical taste is subjective anyway so perhaps those people didn't like them because it wasn't their thing to begin with.
Ahem... anyway, I don't even care you didn't like SA2 despite it being my favorite game in the series (I'm well-aware of its flaws and shortcomings, it was a divisive title at release and it's destined to remain that way), but at least you actually played the game and formed your own opinion and even gave it some praise rather than nitpicking and/or magnifying all the bad and make it seem like it's worse than it actually is. Having an outsider's perspective is always important when analyzing the stuff you love, and we need more critical but unbiased people like you for those kinds of takes and perspectives.
hol up, u telling me people didnt like knuckles music in SA2!?!?!?!?
To be honest, I think that both knuckles and rouge have the best stage themes in sa2
Everyone knows mean bean machine is the best sonic game
I know you won't believe me, but I actually beat Robotnik as a kid lol
@@keystonelyte Good stuff, you the real egg head.
Alerixus Aw dude no contest. Every game in the universe should bow before it. (Just kidding if you couldn’t tell.)
Just like how catherine is the best SMT game.
I know that your probably joking right now but it’s definitely not my favorite
The games are definitely largely about memorization and reward you for figuring out how to get through them faster. So the more you replay, the more you like it generally.
When it was one of the only 5 games you had growing up you got to replay it a lot. Nowadays you have access to far more games far far cheaper. Part of the trend with that is needing to be skillful in games tends to be considered negative, people are eager to try out the next new game or feel as though they are progressing much quicker.
Needing to be skillfull isn't the same as being forced to replay the game.
@@infernoearth7267 There is a difference between replaying something because you die, and replaying the whole game just because the first playthrought is boring, not even hard, since it's difficult to die, only boring.
@@infernoearth7267 This is very much a different strokes for different folks type scenario. See I love bashing my face into hard bosses in a game that claims is difficult and even has the sub-title of "Prepare to die"; you know what you're signing up for and I know I am going to die. I get why people don't like games like Dark Souls and I see the appeal for why people like sonic but its not the right stroke for me. "gotta go fast only if you know the level design after much repetition" just doesn't roll off the tongue very well and having aspects in the game where you have to wait for shit to happen when the idea is having you go fast is such a cock tease.
@@latkepotatopancake9812 I mean idk, most of the better Sonic games are designed so that even scrubs can go fast. Like Chemical Plant for example is littered with speed boosters and such.
Maybe you’d like the boost games better, like Generations. You can literally press a button to go max speed, so it doesn’t take too much effort to go fast
Basing a game around trial and error where you're literally forced into the process is just bad game design
FINALLY!!! A fresh approach on an overly done run of the mill Sonic opinion video. Everything wrong with a formulaic opinionated video is nowhere here. It’s just you being you. Thank you for not being like the others. Why did it take me a year to find this?!
Because now trump is gone.
Btw I just cant get into sonic, i just dont get it. I looove fast paced 2d platformer like dkc and the new rayman and 2d yooka layle, but sonic is way too chaotic for me, its not structured enough and im the kind of gamer that hate when i feel like the game purposedly design to make us miss stuff. I enjoy repeated game to get higher arcadey score and boss rush and stuff, but in sonic i just simply confused.
You've never seen RedLetterMedia? The PreRec spin-off channel made a decent review of sonic.
@FuckOuttaHere I personally don't see the start being rocky because Adventure was met with great reviews, Sonic 3D Blast is a 2D game with a different camera angle, Sonic R is not a main-series entry, and Sonic X-treme was obviously cancelled.
@FuckOuttaHere That makes sense
@@keypath4389 I highly recommend all of KingK's videos on Sonic, but specially the ones about Sonic Mania. He also has excellent Donkey Kong Country videos too.
I also recommend The Greek Critique's videos on Sonic.
Interesting perspective about the bumpers/springs. I never considered how it odd it must be when you're unfamiliar with the levels, and you're unsure if you should be taking the momentum backwards or just jumping over them.
Might be why the Eggman springs were added in new games, so people knew it was a trap
The springs that make you go opposite of where you should are definitely test of reaction skill
Hearing him talking about that seemed weird to me because as a kid playing the original trilogy for the first time, the spring never made me think “oh ok, I guess we’re going the other way now”. I just kept going right no matter what. Mind you I was around 6 or 7 playing them
@@AquaBlueTea this might be because most platformers just went one direction, often to the right. Nowadays this isn't as assumed as then.
16:06 Ah... I see you haven't yet heard of the Drop Dash. In Mania, a new move was added. If you press and hold the jump button in midair, once you make contact with the ground, you'll blast off just like a spin dash. It's a great way to keep the momentum going.
check description
@@yourehereforthatarentyou Ah, I see. Thanks.
Well maybe the game should have done a better job of telling him
@@Paddy656 That is actually a solid point, I don't know why it's not one of the first things you learn. I mean, it was shown clearly in most of the trailers and was talked about a lot in videos, but if you don't follow those than you might miss some things.
I'm in oil ocean zone and I didn't know that. And it took me half of green Hill zone to discover how to spin dash. The game REALLY should've done a better job teaching you this stuff.
I disagree with virtually everything that you said, but I respect the effort that went into this video nonetheless. Sonic isn't really about going fast on a surface level, speed is your reward for playing well. Sonic is more about skill mastery to go fast than just straight up going fast, for me at least. Like, for example, the segment where you were complaining about the number of bumpers that launch you backwards. In most of those clips, you had enough time to react to them being there, and also jumped into them a second time. Still though, good video, thank you for not just saying "sonic is bad game fanbase is bad aaaaa"
Thanks man, I appreciate the feedback, even if it's disagreement. I felt like an idiot every time I jumped back into the same bumper, but it was kind of funny in the aftermath, so I included them in the complaint portion of it. Definitely aware that most, if not all of it is my slow reflexes and not being quite used to the series the same way people who grew up with it are. I get that mindset of "this guy's really bad, and he's complaining about the game's mechanics", because I get that way with stuff that I grew up with like DKC and Super Mario. I think in the end, it's hard to say if I'm really "right" about the game's mechanics being not so good, or if it's just a preference of my own. I don't have an interest in trying to oust a whole community over them liking things I don't, we're all just trying to have fun at the end of the day.
@@TheSaltFactory Thank you for not only being rational and reasonable, but willing to challenge your opinion, and go through the effort to see if your opinion would change. Not everyone would do that, especially for such a... Controversial series as sonic.
yeah was gonna say this too. Its about building momentum. But I do see a point about not punishing the player who fails at keeping momentum with a dead stop.
@@Arkouchie Yeah
amen brother
Just want to point out that in Mania, those segments that wanted you to spin dash, you didn't have to stop. Jump, release, then hold jump. You'll charge a drop dash.
I like to think of the "go fast" marketing as less of a promise and more of a challenge, like "do you have what it takes to go fast?" not "play this game, its fast!", and it seems that's part of your issue (and a lot of peoples issue) with Sonic. They want to go fast all the time but the speed is supposed to be earned through multiple playthroughs, memorizing level layouts and enemy/obstacle placement, but when the game doesn't just give you speed it frustrates people and they write it off as bad game design.
I feel like sonic games can have it both ways though. There should be a high ceiling for things like speedrunning, while still being an enjoyable experience for more casual players.
and Im not claiming every classic sonic player necessarily wants to be a top speedrunner, but having the freedom to challenge _yourself_ to go faster, sounds a lot more interesting than the game forcing me to study and memorize a level if i want a satisfying experience.
Admittedly I'll say modern games- not specifically sonic games- have spoiled me. There's no walk of shame back to where you failed in Celeste for the most part, you get right back into the challenge you messed up on. In Ultrakill, the death animation is completely skipped and you respawn automatically when you lose a boss fight enough times. In neither games is there a lives systems, but they _do_ keep track of your deaths. And that's without mentioning all the speed potential they have for tech and player expression (especially Ultrakill).
I certainly wouldnt call myself a speedrunner in either game, but the movement and level design is so enjoyable that I find myself wanting to go faster, without needing to be coerced into doing so with repeated obstacles, whether theyre slow-downs, or complete set backs from failure.
thats just my take though i guess
So it's a video game 😂
That is bad game design. Memorization is literally the core concept behind those rage 2d games that are meant to make you angry. If the game wasn’t fun at first why would I continue to play?
Welp as a sonic fan I have to say that you have a very common "you ALWAYS have to go fast and never stop in sonic games" mentality that a lot of non-sonic fans have. This franchise is built on 3 core elements - speed, exploration and platforming. All of the classic games besides 3&knuckles and mania focus on only 1 of them. Sonic 1 focuses on platforming, sonic 2 on speed and CD on exploration. Sonic 3 and mania found the perfect balance between all of those elements and in my (and most of the other fans) opinion are the best games in the entire franchise. Sonic games are PLATFORMERS so sometimes you have to jump on platforms. And what do I think about 3D games? Well I really like sonic adventure, found some parts of sonic adventure 2 fun, played generations and thought it was okay and that's it. I prefer classic games but I don't say that 3D games suck, I just don't find them as fun.
To be fair, that’s kinda on Sonic’s marketing team for that. The games are advertised on speed. Hell, that’s literally the NAME of the series: “Sonic” = “speed of sound.” Can’t really blame someone for picking up “FAST: THE VIDEO GAME” and expecting it to be fast-paced.
I was thinking the same through all the video. Because of that mentality we got Sonic forces.
I 100% agree with everything you've said here about the 2D games, but I have to say that I disagree quite heavily with your opinions on the 3D games. But honestly, that's okay because I think the 3D games are where the biggest divides in the fanbase show themselves. The 3D games are so bad at giving themselves a consistent identity, yet somehow none of the many identities they have ever tried to give themselves have even remotely resembled that of the 2D games. The closest thing to the 2D games I've ever seen in a 3D Sonic game is the scrapped beta version of Windy Valley that you can find hidden away in SA1. Nothing in the rest of SA1 or the entirety of the rest of the Sonic series resembles the level design of that beta version of Windy Valley, and it's an outright shame. The beta level is actually super fun, and while it's not perfect, it makes a very compelling blueprint for what 3D Sonic could have been.
In another universe, I suppose.
@Spaceman Alph do keep in mind that Sonic as a whole especially 2D Sonic it's all about memorization because you can go faster through these levels I've done it plenty of times especially in Sonic 3 and I'm not even a Pro Sonic player or anything and in this guy's case it's pretty clear that it's just not for him well that and he's sucking really bad but overall the whole gotta go fast thing is technically true since you will always have the option it's just memorizing the correct path and timing because if you see what speed Runners can do to those games it's disgusting
Wait, I have heard the exact same thing before and while I do agree I wanted to also hear you personal opinion.
As a sonic fan, I appreciate you actually taking the chance to enjoy these games and give them a chance before disliking them. A majority of people chose to mass hate them for no real reason besides "sonic lol". I completely respect your opinion though, and you make compelling arguments. I've had 4 friends who hated sonic. When I actually got them to try the games out, 2 love them and 2 are now a bit more indifferent. Just goes to show, if you're gonna criticize something, maybe understand what you're criticizing. Good video 👍
@@victor.elkins it's more intelligent than "sonic sucks lol I played one game and determined its trash"
@@Tsunder623 only slightly
@Sea Biscuit you know what really funny to me? Sonic gets his negative reputation majorly from sonic 06, right? Sonic 06 got flak from reviewers for being an unfinished mess with bugs and messy gameplay right?
It's funny, because nowadays, that *is* the gaming market. Companies like Activision, Bethesda, ect. Release unfinished full priced games for no reason.
Yet, the new call of duty or fallout still gets 8 out of 10 even despite being buggy unfinished messes.
Yeah I'm really glad he didn't cherry pick the bad games just to come to the conclusion of "Sonic fucking sucks lol" like most others would
@@Tsunder623 What really bothers me is that people won't let go of 06 no matter how many years pass. Say what you will about it (I personally think there's a good game burried under all the technical shortcomings that bring it down which is why I'm looking forward to the fan remake), but it's an almost 14 years old game already yet all those people who are biased against the franchise, not even mentioning straight up haters, keep going "just a passive-aggresive reminder that 06 happened and that's a low point the franchise will never recover from, ever". As if the impact the game had on the franchise wasn't a big enough reminder already; Sega being Sega, they decided to restrict creative freedom from anyone working for Sonic among many other things to avoid another 06 from happening, and it shows with how bland the newer games are, instead of not ever rushing another Sonic game, the main reason why 06 was so broken and a lesson they obviously didn't learn because Rise of Lyric happened.
When I first got into Sonic I never really cared about the speed factor. In fact my introduction to the series was through Sonic X, a slough of sprite animations on Newgrounds, and tons of flash games all over the internet. I remember my favorites being RPGs and scene creators because I couldn't find many flash games that acted as traditional platformers. The first official Sonic Games I played were Sonic Rush Adventure and Sonic & the Black Knight, two games that do not meet the same speed focus as Sonic 2 or Generations.
SRA is pretty speedy though
I love RPGs and fast paced sonic games lmao. I’d recommend hyper light drifter is you wanna explore scenery while making split second decisions by the way
I got into this franchise due to sonic x as well later i found out it was a game franchise played sonic battle on emulator then much later played classic sonic on mobile then played the advanced trilogy on emulator these games are awesome
The sonic rush series is nothing but speed bro lol
@@Substantial-hf1rm I kinda disagree, the sonic rush games have a great combination of both speed and platforming in my opinion.
Fun fact : Sonic 1 and 3 allow you to stay fast if you take the highest road. This tradition carried over to Sonic Mania and Generations, too.
in sonic 3 there isnt really any clear high roads
Just a quick something I noticed while watching you play the 2d sonic games, and that's that I don't think you understand the way the momentum works in the game. You're meant to roll down hills and slopes to pick up speed as you go. Not just hold right to run. You can get a LOT more speed using the environment to your advantage than you can just by holding down run. The next time you play a 2d sonic game, try pressing down on the d-pad when you're going down a slope, or on the second half of a loop to gain more speed. I would recommend Sonic Utopia if that sounds like something you'd enjoy. (it's a fan game)
As for needing to memorize level design, that's part of the point. You need to remember that sonic was developed during a time where parents would buy there kids 2-3 games and that was it. So games were made to either be really long through grinding, like jrpgs, or designed for multiple play-throughs. Sonic took the second rout and designed its levels so that you would play them over and over and see how quickly you could beat it. Part 1 of Green Hill Zone can be beaten in under a minute, but on the first playthrough odds are it will take you 2-4 minutes. That's what those bumpers that shoot you back are for. You'll notice that most of the time, all you need to do to avoid them and keep going fast is just jump before you hit it. The levels were designed as an obstacle course, and it's your job as a player to find the fastest and most efficient rout through that obstacle course.
Also I think you don't utilize the speed-dash as well as you could, but that's a minor gripe. Although I do think you'd enjoy the 2d games more if you used it more. The "you have to stop in order to spin dash" complaint is totally valid though, I think that Adventure 1&2 had much better spin dash mechanics, where there's a dedicated button for spin dashing.
and yeah sonic CD is weird.
(Edit: Wow this response was a lot longer than I thought it would be. Sorry fam.)
ryngak well said
Pretty good point. Also, feel like he ignored mania's drop dash mechanic, but it isn't really expressed to the player at all that it exists except for the extras menu, so I can't fault him for missing that either.
Yeah. Agreed.
Your comment is the first long comment I actually read and enjoyed. Love it. Wow
Agreed. On the first playthrough of Mania I was left unsatisfied, but then I played through a second time tails only. Man that was fun (except for Lava reef)
Good review. As someone who tends to like these games, I don’t agree with everything you said, but you had good reasons for the bulk of what you said, and it made me interested in hearing you out. You weren’t just knee-jerking into the toxic “review” style that plagues most of the Sonic content on the internet and instead you played them with an open mind and formed your own opinion.
If I understand correctly, that opinion is “I can see the appeal, but they’re not all for me”, which is a very mature and logical stance to take. Honestly, if a game wasn’t built around mechanics you enjoy, then “I can see the appeal” is about the highest praise you can give it. That’s my feelings on most FPS games, for example.
It seems that what failed to engage you in the games you didn’t like, was the “play it again and try to go faster” aspect. Classic Sonic expects you to play the game over and over again, so in places, it makes it difficult to maintain speed so that, on repeat plays, you can experiment with trying to figure out how to avoid those pitfalls and keep breezing through. It’s a challenge to yourself and it’s definitely not for everyone. But I can say I definitely didn’t understand that when I first played them, but over the years they’ve grown on me through replay. It’s just hard to justify playing a game over and over today when everyone has a backlog several country miles long, and that’s not a bad thing.
Overall I appreciate your perspective, even though it doesn’t always line up with mine. I’m glad you enjoyed some of the games, like Sonic 2 and Generations, and it seems like you have an understanding of where people are coming from with these games, even when you didn’t enjoy them. I’m definitely not someone who grew up with these games or has a strong affinity for them myself, but I found a lot to love over time. So I’m glad you were also able to find fun in the ones that were suited to you. Cheers.
Guess i'm not the only one who thinks this way...
Yep he’s video sucks
N1njaHawks Second channel how tho
kscade Calling games like sonic 3 and knuckles, sonic 1, Sonic CD, and manny more bad I hate his video.
@@n1njahawkssecondchannel84 just because a video doesn't appeal to you doesn't make it "bad"
You could say that you disagree with his opinions but that doesn't make a video "bad" if anything it was well made and constructed in a way to deliver his opinions effectively which makes it a well made or "good" video.
Ever heard of the Sega Learning Curve? Yeah, that's Sonic in a nutshell.
"you had to STOP and Spin Dash"
AAAAAAAHEM!!! Drop Dash
22:00 You can turn omochao off in generation’s settings.
You are sonic so you know everything
i wish i could do the same with bottles :/
Really I do that when I get round to it.
I know a lot of things! ;D
Doesn’t make it a smart design choice though
If you use the drop dash you can essentially spin dash without stopping.
He forgot it existed
Tyler's Films Exactly lmao
I actually had no idea that was an option in the game until the comments told me lmao. Welp, rip I guess
@The Salt Factory Yeah just jump and hold the drop dash.
@@TheSaltFactory LOL now retry some of Sonic Mania, it wont fix Flying Battery for you though even though I personally enjoyed it
Having platform levels isn't bad in my opinion, it lets you stop and appreciate the level, and it changes things up so you don't just fly through the game...it makes you stop and think
Also I'm surprised you didn't complain about the double springs in hill top....
So refreshing to see a content creator actually critique the series on their own opinion without buying into the hype.
If you aren't a fan, you just aren't a fan, and so many gamers can't seem to understand that.
Nice single like over a month! I wonder who gave it... ;^D
You never rolled down slopes, which is why you lose momentum
Yeah, but the game never tells you that that's a mechanic. You either figure it out on your own, or someone tells you about it. I only recently found out myself, and I've been playing sonic since the early 2000s
@@NinjaKIngAce eh, it seems like common sense to be honest, it’s not like the whole barrel in carnival zone where no one knew how to get past at first. I know the game tells you moves but sliding down hills, you should be able to assume from how a sphere works rolling down a hill just in real life. But eh.
@@NinjaKIngAce if you have to be told that a ball going down a hill will make it go faster idk what to tell you man
@@NinjaKIngAce so what's wrong with finding this out through experimentation as opposed to the game telling you through tutorials? Much of the levels in the classics inform you achieve higher speeds on a slope. Naturally you'd think going down a slope while sonic is in a ball would have you go faster. It's a nice aha moment when you understand this.
Ik this is a 1-year-old comment but still the thing of it is is it's more than that. The way sonic stops, how he moves around, how doesn't dash on the ground like in some character action games, his low acceleration, how he doesn't have a more advanced moveset for the world he's in, I can see how people would think his games are annoying. It's easy to bump into things and hard to keep it going.
Its pretty obvious watching this video that Sonic just isn’t your thing and that’s perfectly fine. Everyone has their own thing and I guess that’s just how it works. I will say a bit of practice on the classic games then maybe you might find something you missed. Great video by the way.
I aslo think that is a reason he didn't really have to make a video
@@_lando_9072 I ... don't quite follow.
Sonic levels are like racing games. Play over and over and learn the levels and the best route through. Most levels then only punish the unskilled players. Even the split screen multiplayer is all about racing 👌
Melton the Gamer Exactly
Just like how gradius players wouldn't be able to handle a fast paced shooter like Thunder Force 4
16:20 yea, that's why they added the drop dash
17:50 I’m going to piss on the moon!!!!
HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT, OBAMA!!??? I PISSED ON THE MOON YOU IDIOT!!!!!
>Playing Sonic CD on the US soundtrack. That’s a fatal mistake.
Except a lot of the US soundtrack is better than the Japanese soundtrack
@@ItsLeavee no
Worst part is the boss music/that EVEN CREEPIER debug screen.
@@bigounce4968 yes
Leavee no
I think this video has really made me understand why so many people hold Sonic 2 to such high regard. Before I was wondering why people considered it one of, if not the best Sonic game ever in some cases (not to say it's bad, far from it, but I felt like it was an 8/10 at best, though Chemical Plant Zone is my favorite classic Sonic level in general). Now I think I somewhat get it. Sonic 2 is probably the most straightforward classic Sonic game, the easiest to understand. There are no grand overarching gimmicks in the stages or things similar to that in the game. Generally the stages are simply "here's a place to run around in, try to get to the end of the level, and avoid whatever unique enemies or stage hazards pop up", rinse and repeat. And I think that this structure has the levels as focused on the more momentum oriented parts of Sonic games. I don't know, it's hard to put in words but that's just how I feel.
Sonic 3&K is still miles better though.
I would like Sonic 2 a lot more if Metropolis Zone didn't exist and the final level wasn't two boss fights with no rings.
The lack of stage gimmicks and the focus on momentum is definitely the reason why Sonic 2 is my favorite Sonic game. I feel like the gimmicks in Sonic 3K are hit or miss. They either enhance the zone and make it more fun, or cause the zone to be a chore to play through. I love Sonic 3 and Knuckles, but I'm definitely against the popular opinion that it's a "perfect" Sonic game. There are a few barrels and levers keeping it from that title. I'm not implying that Sonic 2 is perfect by the way. Every Sonic game comes with its own flaws. I think Sonic Mania came the closest to perfect in terms of level design with its modern enhancements such as a 16:9 aspect ratio, subtle tweaks to the physics, and consistently good level design. What holds Mania back from perfection is undeniably the reusing of past zones. While they're all well designed and fun to play, originality would've taken Mania the extra mile. I see 2 and 3K as more unique and standout, but Mania is designed far better. But like I said before, Sonic 2 is my favorite because it's all original and has a strong focus on speed and momentum.
Sonic 2 didn't really improve on Sonic 1. While it did make some improvements, it also created new flaws of its own. It's not the perfect Sonic game when it has game breaking glitches, inconsistent level design, and outdated limited resources which are the results of a rushed deadline (Christmas of 1992).
Do I like Sonic 2? Yes but I can see why I found the game annoying and tedious as a kid. Being forced to start the game all over again due to bad design is frustrating to put up with. Sonic 1 had this issue as well but the better and more finished design helped to smooth over the dated design choices which is one of the reasons why I pick Sonic 1 over Sonic 2.
@Jonathan Soko
Go ahead and stop reading. It's not like different opinions exist to begin with.
@@ultrairrelevantnobody1862 I don't see how clunky platforming and waiting around is finished and better level design. Sonic 2 puts more focus on speed and momentum, which is what a Sonic game should focus on. If I want good 2D platforming, I'll play DKC2. Speed is what differentiates Sonic from other platformers and isn't fun without it in my opinion.
Game breaking glitches...? In my many MANY play throughs of Sonic 2, I've only encountered one glitch. Sonic gets stuck in the corner of a loop in Chemical Plant... wow... really *game breaking.* This only happens every once in a while. If anything, Sonic 3 has far more glitches than 2. Sonic 3 speed runs are very reliant on its glitches, and they're actually listed as "Robotnik's traps" in the instruction manual.
I never got the "starting all over complaint." I never got frustrated as a kid when I had to start over in Sonic 2. I persevered through and had fun. Plus, it's very easy to earn continues by doing what they game encourages you to do, which is to go through the levels quickly. 10K points = a continue. Nowadays I can finish Sonic 2 without getting a game over. Heck, I've shut off Sonic 2 halfway through, just to start from the beginning later and I have a blast. Sonic 2's "flaws" don't bother me. Sonic 1's flaws do.
One thing I noticed with a lot of newcomers to the series and even me when I was getting back into the series is that they really don’t like it when the game slows down a little bit. I don’t really mind it anymore but it’s something I notice with a lot of people.
Also, he should’ve played sonic adventure 1
“ I though sonic games was all about going fast” well thats where youre wrong kiddo
But yeah agreed with most points here. Why they havnt made a sequel to generations will always be a mystery
Forces is probably the closest to a Generations sequel we have.
@@Gemnist98 and forces was complete shit
@@-PVL93- I meant gameplay wise.
@@Gemnist98 Forces is more similar to Colors in terms of controls and boosting, Generations is more similar to Unleashed.
@theminecraft2516 forces is like a mixture of colors(not actual colors i mean the game),sonic lost world, and shit.
I love your brutal honesty. As a big fan of Sonic 3, I totally get what you're talking about.
I am a fan of the old Sonic games, but that's mainly because of Sonic 2 and Sonic CD and the reaction I had playing Sonic 1 as a kid. For some reason, with all its gimmicks and game-slowing mechanics, it frustrates and bores me. Sonic Generations was fun too. I play both Sonic Adventure games too, even though they are extremely flawed and haven't really stood the test of time and there are a lot of bugs and broken mechanics. There are still parts I enjoy about them. Same with Sonic Unleashed. Sonic '06? Trying to play that game feels like a chore. Frustrating as hell and really, really broken, to the point of ludicrousness.
Sonic was always supposed to be a faster paced Mario like platformer (hell, that's the reason for the game even existing), but everyone just assumes that Sonic is about *_GOING EXTRA FAST YEAH FAST AAAAW YEAH_* 24/7.
Ikr its kinda annoying
Can you blame the public for thinking that? The motherfucking marketing for Sonic in the early 90s made the games to be just that. Mario was slow and for dumb little baby shits, but Sonic was for *MEN* and *SUPER MEGA ULTRA FAST, CAN YOU FUCKING HANDLE IT?!*
Agreed, speed is a REWARD in a good Sonic game, it's not a right
It's what you earn for learning how to play the game, it's a replay incentive
@@BlueMageDaisen But I liked Super Mario Bros. 3 because Mario was rewarded _for_ speeding
@@BagOfMagicFood Can't really judge
I played SMB3 for the first time in my life this year thanks to the Switch online thing, and I kinda hated it
The very act of controlling Mario felt... wrong somehow
Same as SMB1 I think
I think the best way I can describe it is:
In most platformers, Sonic included, it feels like you're pushing your character forwards
In those early Mario games it feels like you're pulling him
Probably makes no sense, but it's how my mind interprets it
The bumpers are definitely to test your reaction, tho the devs should give you a hint to these things coming up, a hint that doesn't make it obvious but gives your reflexes a idea, a idea for when to get ready, so you can learn to react to them without being pro
A good example can be trap springs, which are kinda different in design and color, enough to differentiate on time once you learn it, but the laughing sound should be about a second before you hit the spring, since that laugh can work as a pretty darn good hint I was talking about
Honestly the parts of sonic I liked were the exploration aspect. I liked trying to find little hidden secrets that were in the games.
Your complaint about spindashing needing to come to a halt first was actually fixed in Sonic Mania, if you press and hold jump while in the air you will do a "drop dash" which is an instant spindash the moment you land. It keeps your momentum much better.
"I want a game where I can text my reflexes on how fast it is"
I wonder how will be his reaction with Rush and Advance 2
Exactly what I was thinking. I love how fast Sonic Rush (and Rush Adventure) are and I kinda wanna replay some levels now X3
I wonder about his opinions on Sonic Unleashed too, even though I only got to play a small bit of the PS2 version.
and then he complains about springs which are testing his reflexes, i mean it's his opinion but at certain points i felt he contradicted himself
Advance 2 got speed so right, boost mode was a perfect reward for building/ keeping momentum and felt even more satisfying before super-boost made it instantly triggerable so a bit less special
not that the super-boost/ boost-meter isn't also fun, esp. in Rush where it was a novel idea that they executed well
You can’t use the linear mindset of Mario in a classic sonic game (this is directed to anyone scrolling through the comments)
I was once like you. I would play the classics for the first time and I found a alright experience, but wouldn’t find anything grand about them. It wasn’t until I replayed 3K again and did much better. I’d then run through it again and again, memorizing the level layout, item box locations, giant ring locations, and master the special stages for the regular and super emeralds. Every time I started sonic 3K, I would try to speed run it and it would always feel great.
The reason why you don’t find enjoyment from 1, 3K, a bit of CD, and mania compared to 2 is because 2 caters to the casual people, hence the more linear level designs. To find enjoyment from the classic games, you must dissect them, experiment for fastest level routes, memorizing the levels to EARN speed.
I agree with
sonic 2 is more casual
but you dont have to muscle memorize each level
in sonic mania I rarely found parts were I had to memorize or remember the mechanics and layouts
(accept for the bosses
which is fair I think.)
sonic 1 is kinda bad tho
You know, for as much as I really love Sonic 2 and 3 and I shit on Sonic Adventure 2, I still probably spent more time in the Chao Garden of Sonic Adventure 2 than I did playing every other Sonic game combined.
I think we're all guilty of that last part.
I like Mario kart so I hate this video
I hate sonic and the secret rings so I love minecraft
I hate tonic the ledgedog so I love lasagne
@Daniel von Strangle how is he being edgy?
something to keep in mind about sonic 1 was the Creator said they made it with the knowledge that alot of the kids who played it in an arcade would play the same starting levels over and over again so it was designed around Level knowledge=going fast
This guy: "I'm a newcomer to Sonic games."
Also this guy: *has nostalgia about SA2*
I'm guessing that was the only sonic game he played as a kid.
@@Sgt-Wolf Thats the same with me I never liked sonic that much but sonic 2 was on point
KingK's video on sonic mania brings up a good point about 2d sonic level design. You have these open levels that give you tons of freedom to pick a pathway and move between them, and these closed levels with more linearity and emphasis on tricky jumps, with flying battery probably being the most closed out there. Replayability is also part of the goal, since you can memorize better routes and big obstacles pretty quickly so that the next time you get there, you don't flounder around trying to figure out what to do once you stop. Problem is that there hasn't really been a 2d sonic that only caters to one of these two types, which is why you probably had such a varied experience with all the 2d sonics.
Going fast although the main theme, is more of a reward for learning how the game is, learning the levels, and overcoming the slower platforming sections which are actually quite fun if you take the time to learn how to meet their cycles, majority of sonic games are a casual playthrough struggle that can quickly turn into love if you stay long enough to replay the stages, we have a timer in stages for a reason, you're supposed to replay and improve it to really start having fun. That's why I don't mind the "setback" bumpers, once you know where they are, simply jumping at the correct time once can possibly double the amount of time you spend absolutely zooming through the zone.
EXACTLY! Many people do not understand this and it is something you NEED to experience if you want to enjoy a classic Sonic game.
I bought mania and went into it optimistic and excited. I booted up the game, a grin on my face, and stayed on the title screen to let the gorgeous opening animation play. Once that happened, I started a new file in mania mode.
And got a game over in the first zone.
I got pissed, this was the game I was supposed to love? Every time I began to build up the slightest momentum, a badnick would stop me in my tracks. And the springs that would bounce me back were more than annoying. And oh god it was so confusing, I remember not even knowing what to do on a loop. (Hint: press forward. Woah.)
Despite all of that, I pushed through and beat the final boss. Not the true one, I couldn’t even get past the 2nd special stage. I got the “bad ending” and emerald hunted for a bit, finally completing a sonic and tails file.
It was a slog, but there were 2 more characters I had to play as to complete the game. Somehow, as I played it more, the problems I experienced the first time around were less grueling.
I’ve done probably over 20 playthroughs now, each time getting a better time and enjoying the game even more. Every problem I had with maintaining my speed disappeared and I blasted through every zone. I grew a love for the game that became unmatched by any other game I’ve ever played, making mania my absolute favorite video game.
Just thought I’d share my story with the game, I wonder if anyone else’s is similar :)
Great video! Your arguments against the game are really valid, I think sonic just isn’t for you. And hey, that’s fine! To each their own.
That pretty much describes everyone's first experience with Sonic. The better you get, the more fun you have with it. Not just through sheer level memorization, but with an understanding of how Sonic games flow. How the mechanics enable you to do insane feats of speed and platforming. It's one of my favorite experiences while playing video games, and got similar feelings the first time I played Celeste and Super Mario World. I'm glad you pushed through and saw the magic in Sonic's design.
@@jacobmonks3722 But wouldn't be better if the games were both fun the first time and on replays?
@@legrandliseurtri7495 Personally I think the struggle in getting better is fun. But I know it's not for everybody.
You have helped me realise some of the things that stopped me loving this games quite as much as everyone else. Slow platforming and those frickin bumpers man! Great vid. Subbed
For me, this video encapsulates all retro gaming. I love going through franchises, and identifying the (very few) titles I become a fan of. Most games haven't aged, but some few surprises make it worthwhile.
The only difference being that Sonic never truly bloomed in modern days, so you can't take the bad old games and say those were just small steps towards greatness.
For example, I think Metroid and Zelda are some of my LEAST favorite NES games. But I can at least say that they helped create some of the greatest modern games and hold them on a pedestal.
1:38 "I was thrusted into everyone's favourite, Green Hill Zone"
- RadicalSoda would like to know your location
HA i understand that joke. Am i cool now?
@@pirahna0145 yes
That’s not Green Hill Zone, that’s just...
*GRAND METROPOLIS!!!* BABO BEBO BEE!! DADO DEDO DOO!! DOODEE DOODEE BADOO BO BADOO!!
Ha!
I don’t blame you in the slightest for not knowing about the drop dash, even some of the people who knew it was in the game didn’t even know how to do it when the game first came out, myself included to the point where I legit thought it was something you had to unlock later for a while.
If you watched the trailer it’s pretty easy. It’s obviously to hold the jump button because that’s the button that makes the Spindash go zoom.
@@sparkshock7940 But you see, not everybody watched the trailer.
@@jbbajangamerRead the manual, it’s under “unique character actions”
And yes, reading the manual counts, it may not explicitly tell you in the game but every game has some sort of control information out there you can read.
Always interesting to see outsiders perspectives on the classic games!
The very first sonic for genesis is an absolute masterpiece. From the music to the art design. The whole package is amazing.
The first game is complete ass
@@RobertEdwinHouse9 The second is. Third is fine but the levels are too big and forgettable, so 1 and CD are the best.
@@genyakozlov1316 in your dreams maybe
I dont really mind when theres slower platforming, it's when I have to sit and wait for a slow ass platform to come to me. That's just trash
oh yeah, the game can be an emotional roller coaster. In a bad way.
Good work on this video man. Its really refreshing whenever I see a review of a sonic game (especially one from a newcomer no less) that has actual legitimate criticisms and doesn't bog down the review by resorting to the classic "NOW JUST IN CASE YOU DIDN'T KNOW SONIC HAS HAD A ROUGH PAST WITH HIS GAMES", using sonic 06 as a punchline every waking second of the review, or unnecessarily taking potshots at the sonic fanbase, you know the ONLY terrible fanbase in existence right. I do realize that sonic games aren't everybodies cup of tea, and hey that's ok, at the very least you were willing to give the games a fair chance, you realized what made sonic games appealing to begin with and formed your own opinion that the games just aren't for you and not just be another stock youtuber that doesn't know how to review a game to save their life and fill the review by just parroting what other people have said. Alright, sorry, im done letting off steam now, just know that you good sir have earned yourself another subscriber.
This video just shows what ive been saying forever is the case "sonic was never about going fast" not originally on the megadrive anyway. honestly that whole mentality is what ruins sonic im just about going fast with no thought is boring. good level design you have to actually play with some modicum of skill is way more fun, glad they brought back what makes sonic great with mania.
his name is literally Sonic
I can admit it might be nostalgia goggles, but damn do I love Sonic CD.
5:20 - saying "I was having a *hard time"* while playing Ice Cap theme - brilliant!
I can't believe you didn't try Colors. You would've had the most fun with it judging from your opinions of other games.
I know this is 5 months but one of the things he said that he disliked about the series is waiting. Sonic Colors usually has a lot of waiting in its level design so you can't really go fast as much as you would like to.
I don't think he would've liked Sonic Colors because it has too much 2D plataforming. Besides that what I hate the most are the cutscenes. They don't even need to be there to begin with. I only liked the Japanese dub but I can't completly enjoy them because 1. They had to be based on the English writing and 2. I don't understand japanese except a few words (I watched a translated version on CZcams)
I feel like he wouldve liked at least Sonics portion of SA1. It dosent have any of the visibility problems as the classics The spindash is just a push of the button etc... (Granted hes playing the BetterSADX version)
@@oblue0033 If you want to go fast, Unleashed is your game, the speed in that game is ridiculous Lol
@@willianbueno7611 He would have lost his shit during the Werehog sections tho
Going back and playing all the 2D Mario games, just makes you appreciate their tight controls, creative world building, clever level designs and innovative and challenging gameplay even more, they're basically all still masterpieces to this day, that all helped to form gaming to what it is now.
I remember I was also rather captivated by the Sonic games as a kid in the early 90's, but when you look back, or try to play them again now, you realize that they were just the "cool alternative" to Mario at the time. Sonic was hip, not a plump plumper, and was more about attitude, speed and x-factor, but when you break the actual games down, the controls are rather clunky, the level designs all most seem rushed or random and the gameplay hook basically just had you gaining enough momentum to run fast, so you felt it was you doing all the loops and twists yourself until you hit an enemy or a wall and you repeat to a new speed momentum - all most like a railshooter designed as a platformer or "fastformer" if you will.
Not to mention how dated Sonics overloaded 90's cool factor seems now - I mean Mario's design is basically timeless, sure, perhaps its rather family-friendly, but so is something like Toy Story, and new games sat in the Mushroom kingdom still feels as magical and adventurous as they did 30 years ago no matter how old you are - while everytime I'm reminded of Sonic I basically just think of the Simpsons episode with the “Catch you on the flip side, dudemeisters! NOT!" cartoon dog, Poochie.
Sonic was more a product of his time, more than anything, and nothing more.
You have a points but two things:
One: While I agree that Sonic can feel outdated٫I think there's a way to update him with out being cringy like movie Sonic٫yes the fortnight dancing was bad but movie Sonic is a loveble kid.
2: Sonic is a character not a product.
Sonics attitude is outdated while his actual design is really good since he was based off Mickey Mouse. Mario doesn’t have much of a personality which is why he feels timeless but his actual design is rather basic
Sonic‘s „90s attitude“ was never actually a thing. It was something that Sega of America invented in order to market him to Western audience and the comics and cartoons picked up on that. Sonic’s „catchphrase“ (if you can even call it that) in the original Japanese version wasn’t „Way past cool!“ or „Gotta go fast!“ or something like that, it was a variation of „With a bit of guts, you can do anything.“ which is a pretty timeless message. The most radical thing he did in the Japanese version is some Engrish swearing(most notably Sonic X).
Plus Sonic’s characterization has changed a lot since then, mostly due to it being brought in line with the Japanese original. And it’s not just a recent development either, if you played earlier games like Sonic Shuffle(2000) or Sonic Rush(2005), you wouldn’t even know Sonic is supposed to be a „radical“ character.
But even if we *pretend* the 90s attitude was always a core part of Sonic’s character and SEGA never changed anything about that EVER… What about something like TMNT? The stuff this franchise is known for is even more dated (mostly 80s stuff) and it’s still as beloved as ever, and not just by 80s kids.
Saying that Sonic is dated is just a bad argument, period.
I don’t think he’s aware that Sonic hasn’t been that way in more than a decade. Also the controls are perfect.
Har verkligen försökt gilla Mario spelen många gånger genom åren men har aldrig fastnat för Dom
Here’s my own opinion:
-Sonic 1 is, for me, kinda like what you concluded. Granted, it by no means should be tossed away because it’s where this beloved franchise began, but...yeah, it doesn’t bring the same experience as later games and Sonic working alone without anyone helping him feels kinda...wrong.
-Sonic 2 is by far my favorite, again, also like you said, but for me it mainly is for the inclusion of Tails (my favorite character). It also provided a bit more worldbuilding and the mechanics we all know and love about Sonic.
-Sonic 3, I feel, is the most developed of the original series, but their focus on grab mechanics takes away from what made 2 great. On the plus side, you can actually control Tails’ flight in this game which gives him a distinguishing gameplay feature that isn’t just a copy and paste of Sonic’s abilities. I’m not a huge fan of Knuckles, though, but I can say that Sonic 3 also has the plus of completing the original trio of Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles.
-Sonic CD is honestly the original Sonic on drugs
What about the post-Classic Sonic mainstream games?
I like the use of actual examples here. Usually when people complain that old sonic isn't fast, it seems kind of like a petty, nebulous complaint. I don't know if games like Super Meatboy or Celeste existed at the time of Sonic's inception, but I can totally see wishing that Sonic had that kind of gameplay. It's the difference between "use speed to microplan" and "macroplan to gain speed" so... basically opposites.
The original Sonic was released in 1991 whereas Super Meat Boy and Celeste were released 2010 and 2018 respectively.
@@PhazonEnder they mean "games like it",not the games themselves
@@lpfan4491 Care to name a few examples then?
Why should I? I just specified what they meant
@@lpfan4491 Thanks, you just proved my point for me.
While I totally get your opinion as a newcommer to the franchise , I don't agree with your criticism about theses games' designs in the slightest. Sonic games can't be straight lines with loops and infinite dopamine boosts where you go fast forever , because it wouldn't be fun and would get very old , very fast (sonic 4 did that and it failed miserably). These slower , platforming heavy segments are the barrier that delimits good from bad players. You seem to want to always go fast despite your lack of knowledge of the levels or skill but speed in classic sonic games is something that you have to earn by crafting the optimal route and being aware of each level's designs quirks. Classic sonic games favor multiple playthroughs to really enjoy the speed you can achieve with them , it's like a speedrunner's game if you will. I do agree that this mentality isn't a very inclusive and intuitive one and this is probably why so many people don't enjoy Sonic games. Unlike mario , they aren't made for everyone.
this deserves more likes
@@jahdaman9075 thanks chief
Depression McGee No problem Soldier
Yea, if that’s the case...
Sonic games aren’t for the casuals. Speed running isn’t something a casual would normally attempt or work to get good at.
Are those optimal routes always free of doors and levers and pulleys and other required hindrances?
An interesting perspective for sure! Thanks for playing and sharing your views! My first game ever was Sonic 2, my favourite is Sonic 3 & Knuckles I loved Sonic Mania and Sonic Generations for their take on the retro elements of Sonics games. I have some awesome nostalgia driven memories with Sonic Adventure 2 also! I guess for me; Sonic has been more about platforming than speed, the boost formula changed what I liked about Sonic but it made sense, the whole point in Sonics design; is to go fast. It’s interesting to see perspectives from those who know Sonic through the idea of the speed he represents as that was never the case for me. I think you would appreciate Sonic Advance 2 and Sonic Rush. Those games certainly live up to Sonics reputation of going fast and can be quite rewarding when you do; unlike some of the classics!
Hmmm.... I feel like the fact that you went into the oldschool Sonic series with the notion that your only goal was to go fast probably hampered your enjoyment a bit. I played Sonic 1 just to play Sonic as a video game before knowing what it was "about" and my favorite level in that game was actually the second one for the longest time.
Sonic is not just about going fast. You also need platforming and exploration
I agree with you.
its more about platforming and as a reward speed
to summarize this guys waiting in a sonic game problem
anyone can go fast in a car
but the difficulty comes from not crashing
Did you have both major consoles or just sega consoles?
I think a big issue is people having a lack of experience as youth and that they became accustomed to sonics failings.
It's great for a genesis game.... not so much as a game....
If it was great, it would be cloned more....
@@kevinbooth- never had a sega console
it was a bit before my time
most of my sonic experiences was with a gamecube
sonic mega collection/the adventures/shadow(my favorite)/and heroes
also id say that speed is the only thing that separates a sonic game from a mario one
example: take a mario clone + bump the speed up = sonic clone
thats a bit of a broad swipe but i get it at least
Kevin Booth in other words, you people only like sonic because they don’t know better. K
@@bradenbungard9035 i dont like sonic....
@@kevinbooth- I can tell. I'm paraphrasing your condescending comment
I love hearing Sonic opinions that try to be somewhat reasonable. In my eyes, Sonic games aren’t about blasting through the Zones in one run. They’re about learning the level and keeping the speed high. They also reward players who are willing to slow down and search for secrets, like S3&K’s bonus rings or the Chao crates in SA2. Don’t think of Sonic like a roller coaster. Think of him like a skater. And while these are all fair criticisms to make, the difference between you and other Sonic fans is how much they drag the game down. Where you see slow and boring in Flying Battery, we see a mellowed out pacebreaker that lets us catch our breath. Stuff like that.
My issue is that it feels like Sonic himself was never really... marketed that way? I could be wrong, but from what I remember about Sonic's advertising, he was set up as this 'too cool for school' dude, practically this unstoppable force who would never bend to corrupt authority figures, living life by his own rules, all that jazz.
And then there's the comics and animated shows, portraying sonic as a reckless, free spirit. He more or less has full control over his speed, and is more than capable of butting heads with whatever and whoever comes to threaten him or the people he cares about.
But I seriously don't get that feeling from the classic games. Sonic feels _so_ fragile, getting grazed by a badnik means you drop your entire life savings, or get sent back to the last checkpoint. I hear so often that the game is at its peak when you memorize the levels and take the highest road, but personally speaking, I don't find the trial and error aspect very rewarding. The surrounding Sonic media gave me the impression Sonic was at his best when he was reacting and adapting to new situations, not when he was doing homework and studying the next zone he would be running through.
Forgive my wording throughout a lot of this, don't think I accurately explained how I feel. I don't begrudge the contact damage too much, that was how most games worked back then and even now. And I'm not saying sonic games should be mindless roller coasters like a lot of the modern titles, or that mistakes shouldnt have consequences. I just think that, as it stands, the gameplay in the classic titles didnt age well in capturing Sonic the Hedgehog's character. (beyond being able to run fast, duh.)
Though I guess its fair to mention I was moreso influenced by modern sonic media and fan made sonic content. So yeah, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about Sonic's portrayal in marketing and other media back in the day or whatever
"the homing attack mechanic doesn't always seem to work." *shows clips of himself missing the jump*
"The camera isn't always good" *shows clip of him just yeeting immediately turning right and homing attack without consideration*
A lot of the fun for most Sonic games in my opinion is learning the level layouts. Going back to try and blast through the levels is a great feeling. All my opinion tho
Edit: This video is actually really well put together, so props for making your own opinion
I struggle so much to relate to this mindset. To me, it's like, if the level was frustrating and unfun to play the first time around, why would I want to go back and play it again? This is why i really hate sonic 1 and select levels of other classic style sonic games.
To me Sonic Generations'classic green hill zone is peak 2d sonic. You can go fast even if you dont already know the level layout, but you can go even faster if you do. That's what i want out of sonic.
@@x54xHantamachine The reason you would replay it is if you just enjoy the controls and physics. If you like how the game plays, then you'll be more likely to put the effort into learning the levels.
10:00 The reason behind this is because the animation was done by Toei animation
The expectations that you had of the series because of that damn catchphrase has always bugged me. There has always been slower moments in the games and I agree that some of the more tedious ones probably shouldn't exist I feel like it misleads people about them, mainly the 2d ones.
Sonic adventure 1 and 2 made me fall in love with the games. After sonic06 on xbox360 I stopped buying them, heroes was awesome too. I was looking at mania and generations to buy they look okay. I played the first 4 games too but I love the 3d adventure style and raising my chao 😎
Shadow the Hedgehog is the best Sonic game.
*Change my mind.*
The game was actually pretty good, despite flaws and edginess.
Getting to the ending is unnecessarily convoluted, the in-game models are way too shiny, carried over from Heroes, and the music is weaker than most Sonic games
It’s a hell of a Sonic game, that’s for sure.
Shadow and heroes are where my fondest memories of sonic come from so... I agree
Can't change what you've clearly lost ;)
Eh. Thanks for being fair. I didn't play Adventure 2 till a few years back so I can say I enjoyed it without nostalgia. Strangely, I enjoyed the Tails sections a lot but can't stand the Knuckles ones. And I really don't mind a the waiting in some of these. I actually like Sonic more than 2 or three. Oh well. Good vid even if I didn't agree with it. Kudos.
One thing that was added to Sonic specifically for momentum issues is the drop-dash. It made a marginal improvment
2 minutes and 34 seconds in and I have never heard my thoughts echoed so accurately.
Unpopular opinion: I really like adventure one and two. Specifically two
Thant's not unpopular.That's most of the fandom. Now my Unpopular opinion is Shadow is better than SA2
I'd like to hear why you think shadow is better than sa2, if you don't mind.
@@blewrei1366 Because it took everything that came before and mashed it into one game/character. In SA2 only the Sonic and Shadow stages were good. Everything else was trash.
Once you played through the game once you could just pick the levels you wanted to play. We all just forgot that shit.
@@allen-simpson I played through the entire thing again recently. Only parts I found "shit" were most of Tails levels and Mad Space. You can tell that Tails levels were added later on after the outrage over him not originally being playable considering the massive difference in quality between his and Eggman's levels. Enemies in Tails campaign literally just fall out of the fucking sky on top of you from off screen.
Good on you making your own opinions, salt! I definitely agree on your points and good on you having a well structured video. Love ur content btw
so...if SA2 is rated as pineapple on pizza, it's the perfect game right?
@@JonatannD it means pineapple on pizza is the perfect topping
I don't get why the game not maintaining your momentum in certain situation is such a bad thing. I know that Sonic is known for "going fast", but that doesn't have to be the entire game. A bit precise platforming or stopping for 2 seconds for a set piece isn't really that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.
Well, he did say that he's bad at video games, so he really shouldn't be playing these games.
"Are Sonic games actually good"?
Well that's ultimately subjective to each individual but I'd like to say that they actually are good. There is a reason as to why Sonic's lasted soo long and has such a large fan base.
Also you pronounced Hydro City right the first time.
"Insert Sr Pelo gasp here" it's pronounced hydrocity!
Good is objective, not subjective.
czcams.com/video/uQAATuMNT78/video.html
I heard this while reading the comment
Always good to see a MMZ fan #Zeroisforwinners
Sonic lasted because fanboyism
Long answer: Sometimes
Short answer: Sonic inflation vore
short answer is longer than the long answer lol
@@gamentor2116 lol
Implying inflation isn't the best part :/
Imagine judging a game series by its fanbase.
@@victino1684 As well as judging a fanbase by the percentage of bad because people only seem to look at bad, and then judging the game by the fanbase. Oh humanity you love your humor.
I don’t agree with any of this, and I can safely say I’m not blinded by nostalgia being a teenager, but I gotta say, thanks for forming your own opinions on the games, it’s really nice not seeing people call it shit for little to no reason
good for you man
Most non-aggressive sonic fan:
The thing about 2D Sonic games is that you need to learn the level layout its a way to reward replays but understand your criticism of this feature too.
You know I hear this all the time with people and its "I have to STOP and do something" or "I lose my momentum" or something like that and I cant help but think of how so petty and entitled someone sounds when they say that. Like stopping is somehow an inherent crime to Sonic games specifically I never understood it.
The biggest misconception of Sonic games is speed. People often interpret this as tho you are supposed to just CASUALLY run as fast as possible with NOTHING to get in your way in Sonic. Part of the fun of a video game is the challenge. Sonic games are often likened to a roller coaster ride and that would be accurate. You're never sure which way to go all the time, but eventually you get used to the unique design assets of the game and have a good idea of where to go next.
Sonics core design was inherently based off the concept of speed running. I will say myself that playing Sonic for the first time as a kid was REALLY difficult, in fact so much so that would Game Over many many times before I would ever finish. In fact I still have never beaten Sonic 2 to this very day. But I've only gotten better and as i got better playing the games, the more fun i had.
Mastering that speed is one of the main reasons why fans of the series have stuck around so much. That's the appeal of Sonic games, you suck at first but once you get a grasp on the mechanics it becomes a fun and even thrilling experience. And if you go back and play a stage you had trouble with before, it becomes even better once you slowly, but surely master a stage. It's not a game for everyone obviously but many of the reasons people stuck with it is because of the aesthetic appeal of the games. The characters, the worlds, the music, you have to be a fan of all of those things too if you want to like Sonic. But hey, it's one of those things that pertain to certain tastes and not to certain others.
Joseph Franc stopping to do a spin dash while it may be apace breaker i argue that it lets the player stop and think about the next area after probably speeding through a section a minute ago. i thought your comment was really well written
Yeah, the part of ''sonic speed'' is really about how fast the'' player'' can be. Ppl think of this as: ''sonic must be super fast so i should be able to hold forward and never stop''.
FUCKING THANK YOU!!!
I don't think he's complaining about that
I think he's complaining about the multiple sections in multiple games where something happens and the player is punished with little to no time to respond
Yes, the average human reaction speed is pretty quick
But you can't pretend there haven't been times while you were playing where you lost all of your speed because of something you had barely any chance to prepare for
@@curlycranium6153 Now imagine the strife of people with below-average reaction speeds.
Sonic games definitely reward those who replay them more I find. Multiple routes through levels as well as remembering about obstacles from previous playthroughs allow you to keep your speed up and feel like you're playing a cutscene in a sense. I can say for sure though that it isn't for everyone, since most people tend to play a game once and come back to it maybe a year or two later. Given that I didn't have much for games growing up and my love for speedrunning, Sonic games feel extremely rewarding to me to master. But hey, maybe some day you'll come back to a few of these games and learn more about them and enjoy them that little bit more. Good video overall.
Definitely.
Sonic takes like one session to beat as well, it's pretty clear the 2D games are built around repayable levels
Seeing you running through Starlight Zone and not rolling made me finally notice the speed cap in Sonic 1.
Sonic 2 is the only 2D game I like to some extent and yeah, getting punished heavily for just wanting to move fast, the game defining aspect, always put me off. I had the Sonic Classics cart which came with Sonic 1, 2, and Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine. I wound up playing Mean Bean the most just because I knew of the cartoon and was floored seeing Coconuts and Grounder, it just gave me a lot of motivation to keep playing even though I didn't know dick about Puyo Puyo.
Disagree on Sonic Adventure 2, although I do think Tails in the Chao Garden would be the more beloved pick. I enjoyed it because it highlighted the importance of his inventing and because I found the Tornado in SA1 to be fun considering you were taking on that giant Egg Carrier. So seeing it morph into a mech made me appreciate it even more, especially since its existence meant Robtonik was now playable, a battle of the brains. ...That audio mixing is dreadful though, no real getting around that mess, and sadly the later ports just seem to have more bugs than the last...which makes it harder to recommend given most people don't own a Dreamcast.
I think it's important you were willing to try to understand why people love Sonic games and were willing to try it out. That in itself not very many would do and would just ignore franchise. Cool to see you found something you liked and I wish a lot more would do that even if they would end up not liking any of it in the end. I feel you already had a lot of other comments already stating why there are parts that make you slow down or stop to do something. Don't forget Sonic was the answer Sega had for Nintendo's Mario. Just don't let the speed to win fool you for what makes a Sonic game. Great video!
You should do a video on all the Metroid games.
THIS
"No." - That one person who haven't played any sonic games.
Joke aside. Good video, but not everything about Sonic is going fast and building momentum, that's why there's "stop and wait", springs and platforms instead of "hold right to win".
I think you described the Sonic franchise perfectly. It's a series that's so unique that you can either love It or hate it.
No game is perfect, and it's a good thing to point out what doesn't work, but they all have their own merits. Even some "universally-considered" bad Sonic games like "06 have at least one redeeming quality (mostly the soundtrack).