Do You REALLY Need IR Cut Filters with the BMPCC4K/6K?
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- čas přidán 13. 04. 2020
- If you use the BMPCC4k or BMPCC6k you may be wondering how bad the Infrared Pollution really is. Maybe you've heard there are now IR filters on the Blackmagic cameras, but aren't even sure what that means. Well, this video will help break it all down into simple terms! the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4k and 6k both experience heavy Infrared Pollution and contamination especially when using a heavy amount of ND filters. Luckily there are IR cut filters from Tiffen, Hoya and other companies to fix this issue.
THE GEAR:
Tiffen IR Cut Filter geni.us/TiffenIR
Hoya IR Filter geni.us/HoyaIR
NisiIRND Filters geni.us/NisiIR
Tiffen Variable ND geni.us/Tiffen
PolarPro Basecamp VND geni.us/BaseCampVND
Blackmagic Pocket 6k geni.us/Pocket6k
BMPCC4K geni.us/Pocket4k
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Who is Chadwin Smith? I am an aspiring cinematographer. I love creating videos and showing others how to light and shoot better videos! I also review tech and gear. Based in Arizona, USA - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Nobody is mentioning the apparent significant softening of the image with the IR filter attached. 😳 Look at the specks of dust on your shirt and how it gets so soft that you can’t even see them with the IR attached. I have the 4K, thr SLR magic variable ND and the Sigma 18-35. I’ll have to test this. I don’t think I’ve shot outside with this camera as I usually use my GH5s. Thank you for bringing this to our attention! Great video!
The BMPCC 4K and 6K definitely do have IR cut filters built in. They just aren’t very good, but they are quite easy to replace if you’re comfortable dismantling the mount system.
Yeah i have no idea what this guy is waffling on about, all of the BMD cameras have IR cut glass in front of the sensor. Point blank period. I just replaced one of mine yesterday.
Fantastic Video!
Thanks!
Very helpful. Thank you so much!
James Nothing77 awesome, hope it does help. Thanks for watching!
Great review!
Aero Odessa hey thanks! 🤛
good video on a useful topic!
Justin Wetch thanks man! It’s not talked about that often so I hope it helps some people.
Thanks for this video! I get confused sometimes the conversation over IR Pollution so I'm good to go now..., I find it annoying how some people keep bringing this issue up, like these pixel peepers have a special eye for spotting it, and 99 %of the time it doesn't matter when you CC the video...,
Great info. I love your videos. Noob question: If you use a grey card to set white balance during shoot, will you still need to correct in post?
Hey thanks! Good question. No, your white balance should be pretty well set then. However, I find myself doing minor white balance adjustments on footage frequently, even if it was right. So it’s totally up to the look you want for your grade
Would you recommend going for a plain Ir cut filter and adding a VND or fixed stop nD in front, or minimizing the glass and getting an IRND? How do you know how much ND you need?
Why are you still shooting in prores? Once I got my 4k I completely swapped to davinci and used braw exclusively.. raw is too damn cool to go back to prores. Not to mention actually unlocking your 6k sensor.
It would be amazing if you rigged out the lumix FZ 80/82 it’s a cheap starter bridge camera and I’d love to what you would do with it
Did you add the -5 on the master (in fcpx) with the normal white-balanced footage? Or did you do that with the footage with your tint at 30? Thanks in advance, great video and insight!
Nolan Molt the clip I made an adjustment on in FCPX was the one with plus 30 magenta in camera. But honestly, after my tests, I found that adding the tint in camera did hardly anything. You can pull out the green cast in FCPX without adding any tint in camera, i did it on footage w/out the tint.
Chadwin Smith good to know! Thanks for this 👊🏻
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on New Blackmagic's internal ND's. They're supposedly IR cut but I've seen inconsistent reports about how effective they are.
Iv have been shooting on the Ursa Mini pro g1 with for years now and never noticed an issue with IR
Thanks! Now I know for sure that I don't need IR filters:)
haha! glad it helped one way or the other! cool thing is the new pocket 6k pro has built in IRND's!!
@@chadwin it's actually a problem many are retuning them because of the color cast of this new feature
Hoya 77mm UV and IR Cut Filter differ from the Tiffen?
I have a Hoya IR cut but I’m wondering if I can still thread the adapter ring for the matte box onto the filter. It worked ok for you? I honestly haven’t even attempted it. Also, to be honest the image without the IR cut didn’t look THAT bad. I’ve seen worse.
J. Oakley yes! You can still mount the polar pro mattebox right on top of the Hoya circular filter. Yeah, the IR pollution sometimes isn’t super noticeable, but at other times it certainly is.
The Tokina Cinema Pro IRND's are the way to go. Little to no color cast throught the entire ND range. They do not soften the image at all so they are good up to 8K. They have a scratch resistant coating that is second to none.
good recommendation, I'll have to check them out. I'm doing a review of some tokina glass very soon actually!
Is there a way to remove the red? I recently shot a music video and my blacks came out reddish.
Amazing bro 👏👏👏, please make a video about moire in the bmpcc6k.
thanks! i'll look into that! i havent had an issue too much with moire
@@chadwin thank you for the reply
You should have tested an IRND filter for comparison. Like the circular Hoya solas or squared NiSi
Yeah, I’d love to test out some IRND filters myself, but I haven’t bought any yet cause they’re pretty pricey 💰
In the future when I get some, I’ll definitely do another comparison!! 👍🏻
Hello Chad. Does the Canon Drop-In Filter Mount Adapter EF-EOS R with Variable ND Filter work with the Blackmagic Pocket 6K?
Raymond Edwards unfortunately no it doesn’t. That only works with the Mirrorless Canon EOS R mount cameras. The EF Mount can’t be used with any additional adapters between the lens
I heard that some nd's has ir cut in them like srl magic, it would be cool to test more of them and compare :)
Vilkan Visions yeah, I’d love to test out some IRND’s in the future. I keep hearing good things about the SLR Magic ones.
@@chadwin I have some cheap one from china called Zomei HD and colors aren't perfect but I didn't notice any ir problems yet, have to test more.
What about Kodak IR Filters from Amazon for about $30?
Thank you for this video. Does how I stack the cut filter and ND filter matter? Do I put the IR Cut Filter after the ND filter or before? I am trying to figure out which filter goes furthest from the main lens.
Personally I put the IR cut filter first, then the ND filter on top. It probably doesn’t matter much, but that’s what I’ve found works well for me!
You have an option in Davinci to cut all the saturation from shadows, which is nice and controllable tool
Yeah, I watched another CZcamsr talk about doing this, unrelated to IR.
I have the pocket 4K, and it’s not been working for me to fix the IR problem in Post. Because underexposed skin turns red with braw. And fixing this by pulling up the green channel fixes the skin somewhat, but destroys the rest of the shadows completely.
@@EpicWaterLion You can set the red channel to zero in hue vs hue so that it doesn't affect the skin tones.
Yea the thought occurred to me as well when he was talking about it
You can do that, sure, but that will not help your image look filmic. Film holds saturation in the shadows where video has saturation in the highlights.
Check out the NISI circular IRNDs. No color cast, no IR pollution, sharp as hell, no problem :)
Yeah, I've heard really good thing about the NISI IRND's! Do they have any Variable ND's? I have yet to find a Variable ND filter with IR built in. Otherwise, I'll prob get the 4x4 filters so I can use them in a matte box with any lens.
Chadwin Smith i think they have Vari-Nds... im not sure tho! the 4x4s are ya best bet but pretty pricy! i got a 3-set from Nisi for like 160 bucks, a 0.9, 1.8 and 3.0, for me at least, everything i need.
@@leedonohue curious what matte box system you're using with these?
Brad Neff non at the moment, the nisi irnd's i use are screw on filters. you can get them in 4x4s as far as i know though, no idea what mattebox would be ideal though
@@chadwin The Tilta Mirage has IRND's for cheap, loving the set myself.
So you can use circular IR cut filter with the PolarPro basecamp and then use it’s own VND?
weeq326 Yep! That’s exactly right
What do you think about OLPF RAWLITE filter?
I haven't had a chance to use it myself yet, but I know a lot of people have had good success with it.
You're wrong. That video was REALLY interesting.
Xavier Schattel 😆 thank you!! I hope it was helpful
Yes Chad can’t see too well
i just use freewell's 2-5 stop nd filters with 15 magenta. It looks everything okay with 180* shutter in sunlight
hey, that works! you can def use the green/magenta tint shift to your advantage here.
The black magic pocket cinema camera has an IR filter built-in.
it doesn't though. The new Pocket 6k Pro does have some IR cut built into the ND filters, but nothing when you aren't using the ND filters.
@@chadwin It does. Here's a vid of someone replacing it: czcams.com/video/l2LvelzAdNA/video.html
@@Andybaby thanks! I learned two things, one the BMPCC does have an IR cut filter. And two I thought we were talking about the BMPCC4k/6k cameras like my video is about. 😂
@@chadwin The BMPCC 4k also has a built in IR filter - check it out: czcams.com/video/_lzyBvCOhWQ/video.html. You could argue it is 'weak', and maybe needs a 'stronger' one. There is a company called Rawlite which makes REALLY expensive ones, but I'm not sure the difference (compared to a cheaper one) is worth it - czcams.com/video/P0l2h076nys/video.html
@@chadwin well, if you check your BMPCC4K/6K, you can see the IR cut filter is still there, right above the actual sensor. You don't need another IR cut filter on the lens....
The problem is you are using Variable ND filters and they are renowned for serious colour casts...try it with a fresh normal ND filter and you'll find little to no problem...
Hi! Great video! On Polarpro's website I found this: "Furthermore, BaseCamp’s matte box filters are full-spectrum ND filters that cause zero IR pollution. In other words, these ND filters are hyper neutral through 1100nm which eliminates IR pollution from interfering with your footage."
It isn't true, then?
this is true. the PolarPro ND filters won't add any additional IR pollution, but they also won't cut any IR pollution from the camera ( the blackmagic 4k/6k don't have IR cut filters so you may need an additional filter)
@@chadwin Very clear! Thank you! With a 2-5 screw on ND filter should I need an additional screw on IR cut?
Does the bmpcc 6k pro have built in IR filters?
yes! they do have IR cut filters. I hear they work pretty well, but may not be strong enough at the highest ND level. more info: "Those motorized IR ND filters have been designed to match the colorimetry and color science of the camera, Blackmagic Design says, and filter both IR and optical wavelengths evenly"
I was lighting with a Source Four the other day and I noticed the shadows looked red compared to lighting with my LEDs. I was like "what the heck, everyone says Tungsten is more pleasing than LED lights?" Now, it was way more apparent on my FS7 (Slog3) than on my a6300 (Cine 2 Cinema). I wonder what happened there? You added an annotation that said Tungsten may cause IR pollution... that might be it?
Marcos Rocha yeah, tungsten has 100 CRI, so it does looks best on skin tones. However yes it can cause IR pollution in the blacks and shadows depending on the cam. The FS7ii has a built in IR filter tho so it shouldn’t be much of an issue. On the FS7, I’m not sure. However, from my personal experience with the FS7ii I’ve gotten weird colors under LED lighting a few times, especially red looking skin tones. To fix it, I usually adjust the white balance and cycle through different Picture profiles to see what looks best for the setup.
With Hoya variable ND is nothing noticeable.
Don't the ND filters in the 6K Pro have IR cut built into them?
Yes! I made this video before the 6k Pro was announced. The internal ND filters do have IR cut built into them and it seems to work well enough from my testing.
The sensor is not abused without the filter?
The sensor works fine without the IR filter. It’s just maybe necessary if your shooting in sunlight something that is black and can get a lot of IR pollution
@@chadwin okay
Is the hoya ir cut filter better than the tiffen?
I've heard really great things about the Hoya. unfortunately I haven't been able to try it yet so I couldn't say specifically.
Have you tried a color checker ?
yes. was using in this video but not sure why I cut those clips out in the edit haha
I feel edumacated
Good
SAKHAWAT HASAN thanks!
Why just not use ir-filter and up the green tint in the bmpcc??
Why didn't you white balance to take out the Green with the IR Filter? If it's a tint it's easily removed as opposed to IR pollution which is next to impossible to remove.
You could adjust the tint and it would counterbalance it some yes! But, IR pollution ruins your blacks mostly and in a way that tint doesn’t fix it.
Whats the workflow to fix the green cast? Im matching a 6k with a 6k pro. The 6k was using the nd ir as well and horrible green cast messing up the rich blues in the shot.
come to jakarta or borneo and see ur UV index rate here even internal IR cut can't handle it
Don't use variable ND filters of ANY kind. They are all pretty much terrible. Even the more expensive ones. The Tiffen Water White IRND filters are excellent.
some of us don't have an AC or time to swap square filters when working alone, variables cause color cast but the compromise for the convenience is what it is, when projects pay for AC I don't use variables I hire square cinema NDs