Pure Puppetry vs Augmented Puppetry - New Dark Crystal AOR Full Trailer Thoughts Thoughts
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- The first full trailer for The Dark Crytal: Age of Resistance was released by Netflix last week. Like many fans of the original, I was very impressed with what i saw, but the trailer raised an interesting argument. Is it better to have use Pure Pupettry or Puppetry Augmented with CGI, as this trailers displays. I will cover this in this video as well as my thoughts on the project in general. Let me know your thoughts on The Dark Crytal Age of Resistance in the comments below.
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Instrumental produced by Chuki.
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#DarkCrystalageofresistance #thedarkcrystal #netflix #labyrinth #jimhenson
Check out my Labyrinth Sequel Discussion video. Should a Labyrinth Sequel be made and can Jareth the Goblin King be recast? czcams.com/video/_D_Bhaid53Y/video.html
Jareth could never be recast. No one could EVER fill David Bowie's shoes in that roll. Absolutely ICONIC!
I think Age of Resistance was amazing including the way everything looked. The stiffness of puppetry might throw some people off but if you look at any screenshot of the movie it's spectacular.
Not just with puppetry, CGI always work better combined with practical effects…
It always worked better when we used gelflings!
@@DogwafflDan Yeah but the Gelfling Union has gotten too draconian. Nobody can afford them anymore. Cheaper just to use Mexican Midgets.
Like CGI blood! It looks so bad! Just use a squib, you clowns!
Jurassic Park was always a perfect example of that.
Laika has done a great job using a hybrid of stop animation with CGI. They are a great example of how it's done.
The people of Jim Henson Company, said ages ago, they would only use cgi when necessary, but their goal would be to use as much practical effects as possible, a beautiful combination of technologies if you ask me
looks awesome.
@@jasonshirrillmusic yes yes it does
I remember hearing from an interview with Frank Oz that he believed that Jim Henson would have fell in love with CG had he lived to see it's potential.
@@borediideath6526 oh he would have loved it! There is no denying that!
Balanced, as everything should be
CGI and practical effects should complement each other
Yep. Compare Black Panther's costumed fight scenes in Civil War to the ones in his own movie... Night and day. >_>
StageLined *set C is a complement of set P*
But so often it's just non-photorealistic CGI without a grounding in physics.
My aunt and uncle were puppeteers in this and I got to visit the set and a it was amazing
Do you have pictures????
Luckyyyy
Wow! Would you go into puppetry?
AngelinBlack your aunt and uncle did an amazing job
r/quityourbullshit
Hybrid CGI and puppetry have always seemed to coexist pretty well. Jurassic Park is a shining example.
Looks like CGI is simply taking the place of matpaintings, which wouldn’t cut it for modern audiences. They need more than the hardcore fans of Frowd, Henson & puppets to create a resurgence of the franchise.
Its better, but not quite there. Ether there is an issue with the sets or the backgrounds. Example; 04:00 Notice how the arching log has a sharp uncanny valley effect between it and the background. I actually think they should have some things in the background that are models, while also have a few things in the foreground that are CGI to mask the transition better. Lets say they had a blue wines like things around the log that was animated with something. To top that of they could also use special wind machines that would both blow a little, to create movement on the stage plants and so on, but also created data points that would be feed into a computer to communicate the same movements without to much animation needed etc.
also making giant real life alien world surroundings is kinda more costly these days then cgi surroundings.. im glad the puppets are still puppets.. good enough for me.. i loved the movie mr henson made back then and was sad it would never continue after his death.. so this makes me elated
matte painting
@Bobert Wiltshire No it doesn't. Shut up.
@@Lobos222 Well, you may feel a little stupid now, because it turns they´re using several matpaintings for this season (and yes, also green screen). I think some people just aren´t capable of living in the real world tho, and they create an imaginary one where perfection is possible...
I honestly couldn’t tell what was real and fake
The CGI that they use is very limited and it just makes it better.
The only thing I could openly tell was CGI was the moving ground when the Skeksis were riding in that weird machine and the electricity that was hitting the Crystal. I actually thought everything else was all practical effects during my first few viewings of the trailer.
@@CouchSpud91 Those backgrounds looks pretty obvious that their CG. The artists go overboard in making things glossy and pretty, to the extent that they look TOO perfect.
But that's how it should be, a near immersion of what this story is. That's kinda the goal of CG, to be indistinguishable from the real thing.
Also I'm new to this whole thing but it was in my recommendations and I thought this was an interesting comment, TBH I'm more of a Sci-fi war or post apocalypse type of person but as a new comer...This looks cool. I think they did a good job.
That's the goal of FX, If you can look at something and can honestly say, "that's an effect", the the FX artists haven't done their jobs in terms of photorealism.
Actually the backgrounds were painstakingly built sets. Your "friend" was wrong.
Mattybot 3000 they did use green screen some times, but yeah... the series is 90% practical effects and 10% cgi and most of the forest and landscapes are indeed real built sets.
Chamberlain is voiced by Simon Pegg in the series.
Althoogh its not really important to me - I live in a country that is cutting edge in dubbing foreign movies - I think that Pegg made a great job.
Im not really a fan of cgi. It got overused and abused over the years to keep the budgets small and sometimes I think that its been used out of lazyness.
But in the Dark Crystal series you can see that they used it to enhance it. You see everything in the foreground is very rich in detail and handmade while cgi is only used for small things or thiings that would cost a fortune to bring to life. And it looks great! You can also feel the respect for the original, they created a great story with great characters and the puppeteering is just as great as Hensons work ever was.
Its an exeptional work of art and a wonderful example on how to make a WORTHY sequel to a classic.
Jim would have loved this. Puppetry with CGI is the answer. It will always be. Jurassic Park looking like it does today is a testament to this.
Even the OG Jurassic Park was a hybrid of technology. The dinos were a mix of early CGI and animatronics. And it still looks amazing.
cyberwolf2002 Comparing Lord of the Rings to the Hobbit puts this on display as well with the Orcs.
@@Krystalmyth - True that.
You're probably right! Jim loved new technology and was experimenting with CGI shortly before he died.
They really hit a home run on this series. The new prequel series went above and beyond in everything I could have hoped for. They series in everything really went outside the box. They really did a fabulous job and I hope they do a second season. The puppetry was spot on and it was very very good.
I think that they're using CGI whenever it makes artistic sense and from the trailer it certainly appears that they've struck the right balance. Besides, what's to say that they wouldn't have used it back when the original film was made if they could have?
FYI The Chamberlain is being voiced by Simon Pegg. Franz Oz was the puppeteer for that character but not the voice, which was done by Barry Dennen, who died in 2017.
Simon Pegg seriously?!?!!? omg I love him!!! XD
The only rule i think art should have is: If it works, do it.
Yes. The demands of a given project should determine what CGI, and/or practical effects should be employed. Story should drive the effects, not the other way around.
Bit of an error there at 5:20. Chamberlain was voiced by Barry Dennen, not Frank Oz. Oz did perform the physical puppet character but not the voice.
That's right.
Worst thing to note is that Barry would have loved to come back and reprise his role, but passed away in 2017 :(
@@BYERE aww man, he was so close 😞
Now it's Simon Pegg.
And he calls himself a "purist..."
I would have been satisfied with any type of puppets. But this trailer looks really good. I am very excited.
It is very good I stay up almost all night binge watching
jim henson actually did embrace digital effect during some of his final works, but that often gets overlooked
Yeah I think there's a future for puppetry but it has to partner with CGI
a mutual respect for the strengths and admission of the limitations that each art form brings to the table
@@jameshamaker9321 "they" ( the computers) do that intentionally...it's all part of Skynets deeper plan to take over the world at precisely the right moment and to insure that humanity has no chance of preventing it
I don't mind PCGI. So far It looks amazing. I'm not sure for the director though. I didn't like any of his work. But let's wait and see.
More Dark Crystal is still better than no Dark Crystal.
Tell that to the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy!
According to one of the articles I found, Simon Pegg is playing Chamberlain. Ironic considering some of your Star Wars photos ;-). Also, Jim Henson was already working with merging computer animation and puppetry in the late 80s/early 90s, I think if he hadn't passed he would have been one of CGI's pioneers. He was all about innovation and new tech.
Henson was very keen on perfecting the art of puppetry, almost obsessed over it. The idea of blending Puppetry with CGI to make it as artistically pleasing as possible in lieu of it being "Pure" to puppetry alone is something that he wholeheartedly would have supported, especially in an endeavor as huge as expanding the big pet project of his that was The Dark Crystal.
Hell, there's actually evidence to support this in his work. Fraggle Rock used a lot of blue screening for the tunnel travel sequences, so much so that a Fraggle was actually named after the effect of using a blue screen with Travelling Matt, who was the go-to Fraggle representative for any Henson crossovers. He was also a fan of blending mediums, having approved the combination of puppetry and animation for a short while with the very short lived Muppet and Monsters series. The guy would have had NO qualms with using CGI so long as it didn't interfere with the art of puppetry, and that's exactly how it's being done in this prequel/reboot.
I saw the original Dark Crystal when I was a kid. And by that point it had been out for several years. And to this day it remains one of my favorite movies. The effects were amazing! through the years when I saw that there was supposed to be a sequel to it I got excited! But then nothing ever came of it. And now I can understand why. So I now have the 3 hard copies of what the sequel was supposed to be. And honestly, there would be NO WAY that it would have been able to be done WITHOUT CGI. With Age of Resistance, I LOVE what I have seen so far in the trailer. I am super stoked and cannot wait to see it. And here's my thing with people that like things to be pure. Guess what! They are not. In Dark Crystal they didn't just use puppets. They used people. They used matte paintings, they used green screens. Yes the characters were all puppets, but they still had to get humans to do what the puppets could not. From what we've seen with the trailer for A.O.R. it looks amazing! They have the puppets and they look AWESOME! You can only do practical effects to a certain point. And even looking at my copy of Dark Crystal now...the visual effects have not stood the test of time. And the same thing with Labyrinth. You can see what was green screen and what were matte paintings. A.O.R. looks seamless and not over done. I'm pretty sure they still probably used some sort of set building and went from there. Not everything in the world is CGI.
Brittany Jaskiewicz i saw it too when it came out .... one of my favorite movies of all times...
How did you like AoR?
Check out my breakdown of the full Netflix Dark Crystal Series and my theories for Season 2! czcams.com/video/6G0acF_W_w4/video.html
Well seeing as this last post was 3 weeks ago, Im not sure if you realize that CGI was used directly on the puppets themselves? Theres a good documentary about this on netflix: www.netflix.com/title/80238013. I feel like this is a FAR more interesting point to discuss: do the small cg effects used overlying the puppets improve or harm the overall look? Im actually on the side of the cgi tweaks being unnecessary!
Henson's Creature Shop is insanely talented! If I had the money to make a movie, I'd couple Jim's crew with Industrial Light and Magic. That would be WILD!
Yeah yeah YEAH, got so excited there accidentally knocked out the dude next to me
Tower of Murder Inc maybe you can when you become a filmmaker
Wasn't Jim Henson ahead of the curve and used what is now considered CGI, two-handle backgrounds like on the show fraggle Rock
Look at the ending to The Dark Crystal. He would have used all the CGI if he could.
Also that o0wl in the Labyrinth
If Jim was around, he'd also use CGI in whatever way he needed it, along with practical effects and puppetry. So, the use of it in the coming series is fine and works perfectly IMO. Did not know about the various novels. The only continuation of the story I was aware of, until now, was the superb three volume comic hardcover series, Creation Myths. Then the sequel comic series that I haven't even gotten into, but might be interesting.
Jim Henson was all about using and experimenting with new technologies to enhance his work. I don't think he would agree with the purist mindset. It's not about the superiority of puppets itself, but the art and expanding upon what can be done with it. CGI added a lot of polish to this series that would not have been possible with puppets alone.
Look, Ive seen a few episodes but it looks AMAZING.....I love the puppets and practical affects. They blend the oldschool and the cgi perfectly. Its gorgeous.
A good example of hybrid CG/puppetry is Guillermo Del toro's work. Crimson peak, Shape of water, and Pans Labyrinth primarily use puppetry/cosuming/makeup but just a little bit of CG is used for things that could not be done practically. These include adding eyelid blinks for the shape of water, removing parts of the legs/stilts in Pan's, and adding some melting and evaporating effects in crimson peak.
Also the Hellboy make up was CGI enhanced in the shirtless scene
Frank oz didn’t voice chamberlain in the 1982 dark crystal, he did the puppetry for him. The actual voice actor for him was Barry Dennen
Throwing out a related recommendation for the Henson Company film "Mirrormask." It heavily uses CGI not to look realistic per se, but to embed live actors in moving Dave McKean artwork, and it's pretty immersive and strange.
That movie is gorgeous. It really looks like Dave's art work being brought to life.
Chamberlain is voiced by Simon Pegg I believe.
For me Kira will remain the pretties gelfling ever. I loved Lore's puppet that could not have been done the original way
THer´s some thing general true with it ( and, I too love the "original" Gelflings most): the "new" Netflix Gelflings they look
Notin any way that realistic, they look a bit plastics-like....
When this series was announced they were up front that there would be some cgi for atmospherics, but the general special effects and puppetry is all practical. It looks like a perfect marriage to me. I'm not a fan of cgi either, but when it's used properly as a tool with practical effects I support it's use. This series looks like the perfect balance of that.
I ´am a old school puppet player from the Netherlands and from the beginning a great admire of Jim Henson. Puppetry is a ferry old form of ´theater´. The oldest puppets ware found in Egypt. Puppets where used by story telling or by religious rites. In the middle ages. Some priests in Catholic Churches in parts of Europe used them to tell story's about holy people. In a church in France the made the first ´animatronics´. But tan in the 16e century the pope forbid puppet play by priest and it came in the hands of commercial artist. In the time of the witch hunds puppet players AND puppets where burned. Puppet play was and is magic. So i was a traditional hand puppet player on the street and in our own theater. (There are puppet players in all the country's of the world) Some times there came producers how try to put this puppet play on film or video. But that dint work; you have to see it live. We also made 2 puppet film productions in a special decor and with specials effects just like a movie with actors. That works. Jim Henson jousts sometimes ferry simple special effects in his movies, because thats what a puppet players do. A puppet player is like a magician a simple tric but with a great effect. I am a purist from the old school but i adore the beautiful productions from this time. But the old magic from the old dusty puppets like Punch in England, Guignol in France, Arlecino in Itali, Kasperl in Germany, Petrouska in Russian, Jan Klaaszen in the Netherlands and so on, this stays for a next 1000 years. And now i will see the new Dark Crystal. Look on Google for UNIMA that the world wide association for puppet players.
I am so excited for this! My first experience with the Dark Crystal was the childrens book adaptation of the movie, I was so surprised when I found out as an adult that it was actually a movie and immediately grabbed the dvd out of Walmart's bargain bin and now I come to find there's a whole series of novels too?
I grew up with Jim Henson on television and film. Sat in the theaters watching all of his works come to life. Jim was all about embracing new technology, and using it to help create new worlds. Many of his t.v. programs utilized the newest techniques, and included loads of blue screen elements, make up, optical effects, CGI (in its infancy) and the like. If Jim were alive today, he definitely would use CGI to enhance his vision. I've noticed the same reactions - people being upset about the backgrounds, cgi elements, and whatever else they can cry "foul" on. But I believe people can rest easy. They will use it to enhance...not replace...the practical elements. It's what the DC is known for...but even that film utilized a lot of the newest special effect techniques to bring it to life, and it will be no different here. And I believe the Henson family understands that.
Mixing both together is a genius idea. They feed off of one another. Where one fails the other exceeds. Filling in each other's gaps. Love it.
Simon Pegg is the new Chamberlain. 👍🏾Giving props & homage to Frank Oz! 👍🏾
OH MY GOD I NEVER KNEW THEY WERE DOING A DARK CRYSTAL SERIES!! I love love love this movie
Frank voiced Chamberlain while filming.
Barry Dennen voiced Chamberlain in the film.
if the production is on par with the casting, this will be a blast.
Jim Henson was on the forefront of computer effects in 1990. He talked about it, embraced it, and was looking forward to pushing the boundaries of what was possible then. Puppet purists should acknowledge this and get over themselves.
I agree with you. I do think it's a home run. And of course, there is a future for pure puppetry on TV and in live performance.
I think any new technology can help improve the traditional art form when used with care and thought. Saying that cgi combined with puppets is bad is like saying that traditional puppets with motors in their faces to enhance expression is bad.
Your comments are right on par with my own, you hit the nail on the head. CGI is great as long as it's done right. The trailer looks amazing. It's the only thing I am waiting to see on Netflix.
Pan's Labyrinth use of Digital + Puppetry was breathtaking IMO. Things just looked so rral
They may not be working with the biggest budget, but they are working with the Frouds. Brian Froud was the lead concept and costume designer of the original movie, and of course also responsible for the design in Labyrinth. His wife Wendy contributed heavily to the original design of Yoda in Star Wars. His son Toby, who "played" the baby in Labyrinth, is now also an artist and filmmaker.
I've been a Dark Crystal fan since I was 11 and saw it on opening night in the theater. Totally blew my mind. I even wrote a paper in college years later about the formative effect it had on me. I have been patiently waiting through one teaser announcement after another over the decades about sequels and prequels, but I've never read any of the supplementary stories by other authors. The original book that was released alongside the movie gave me all the information my imagination needed.
BUT...even though I've been a die-hard fan and supporter of Jim Henson since the first Muppet Show episode came on when I was 5, and a big fan and supporter of Brian Froud since I first saw his artwork in the book Faeries (with the great Alan Lee) when I was 7, I have NEVER been a fan of limited tools to do the job; and anybody that has decent observational skills can agree that the old method of using a traveling matte and a blue screen to add different backgrounds and split-screens ALWAYS killed the illusion with its slightly misaligned edges...but for the sake of the art, and not knowing of any better way to do it, I swallowed my criticisms.
We've come up with better visual tools to aid in the storytelling, and that is the key...to AID in the storytelling. CGI alone is annoying as fuck, but using it to contend with background imagery to keep it as flawless as possible is far better than any traveling matte could ever do.
Stop-motion animation went through the same abuse cycle in its day. We got over it, and now we've perfected it as a supplementary technique. I am personally very excited for 30 August 2019.
I think it a good idea to mix puppetry with CGI I mean Jurassic park had practical effects mixed with cgi and That looked amazing
Everything so far has looked amazing. I could care less if CGI is involved as long as it doesn’t become unnecessary or replace the puppetry.
I agree that puppetry is an art as well as CGI and something seamlessly joined is absolutely stunning
I think CGI for sets and background and puppets for characters is the ideal match. Using the CGI that way would save a fortune!
SkekSil the chamberlain was puppeteered by frank oz but voiced by barry dennen just fyi, in the new series he is voiced by simon pegg :)
Which is weird cos he sounds like a Miss Piggy-cum-Yoda-cum-Grover hybrid. I honestly thought for years it was Frank and I’m a lifelong Muppet (Show, mainly) fan with a pretty good ear for voices!
The best pieces of art are mixed mediums, CGI adds to the experience and enriches the story for a fuller visual enjoyment of the journey.
I like a mix of puppetry and cgi, there is no problem using updated technology to expand on a great story. Also check darkcrystalclub on Instagram, they have a list of the actors and their characters.
If only we could go back 20ish years and beat George Lucas over tge head with this message. >_>
The backgrounds in the original were animated, i.e. CG.
The Chamberlain was voiced by Barry Dennen
When I saw this I was super convinced that my childhood was about to be ruined, but after watching the first season I am pleasantly surprised. It is dark, bloody, sinister and beautiful, which is basically what the Dark Crystal should be.
This looks fantastic, magical and full of whimsy. I am certain it will bring me back to that simpler time when the dark crystal captured my young heart.
Oml it is amazing I love it
I don't mind them mixing the cgi and puppetry for the most part. Though I'm kinda worried about my favourite animal/creature being made up of cgi; the Landstriders. Watched the movie from the age of 4 and was initially quite scared of them, but have grown to adore them.
I can't imagine the effort they would've had to have put in to puppeteer the creatures though, so it's likely that they'll be animated.
The thing I like most about the Landstriders, mostly came down to imagination. I mean, they're creatures that come to your beck and call (which is an adorable call btw), and are willing to fight to the death to keep their riders safe. They are kinda ugly, but they're kinda like the thestrals from Harry Potter. Scary, but oddly cute by nature. (Note, I wasn't allowed to watch Harry Potter as a kid, but The Dark Crystal at the age of 5, a-ok)
Point is, seeing them as puppets made them feel real, and physically, they were there. I can understand and tolerate it if they favour animation. It'd just strip a bit of the "realness" for me
I think the future is a hybrid. It's efficient, practical, and gives the most realistic experience. Half the time I couldnt' tell is was cgi. It also preserves the integrity of the art in my opinion.
Jim Henson himself experimented with early CG on The Henson Hour. He would have no problem with it being used.
Brian Henson is overseeing the project. He knows how things should be done and has worked with the Muppets since before Dark Crystal came out.
Dont forget that the creator of HBO's Chernobyl is Craig Mazin whose writing credits include....The Hangover part 2 & 3....and Scary Movie part 3 & 4. Don't confuse talent with the work these people take to make a living. Many of them are talented, just not booking the right jobs. the trailer looks stunning and i cant wait for this to come out.
This showed up in my feed after I started the series. I am very impressed with the story, puppets and CGI blend, and the random animal/nature interactions that always drew my eyes in the movie. Simon Pegg and SkeSil are playing with my mind. His character and whimper are so close to what I remember hearing when I watched the Dark Crystal just before starting Age of Resistance. Also really liking The Scientist since I love hearing Mark Hamil voice act and that he has a larger grasp of the Dark Crystal.
Combining computer and practical effects always yields the best results...
Puppets and animatronics, while they photograph fantastic their range of motion is dreadfully limited.. Even decades later you still can't make mechanism that can match the expression of an organic living face... Something CG effects have a much easier time with now that more advanced motion capture and facial tracking systems exist.. But at the same time texturing and lighting are an absolute nightmare for CG..
Both techniques accomplish more together than they ever could alone.
I also agree that CGI is ideal for rendering backgrounds and other complimentary elements. There's a time and a place for both practical and CGI effects.
I'd like to see practical effects used as the base but enhanced with and supplemented by CGI. I really like the look of the new Dark Crystal series.
i agree with everything you said bro. I am 36, and a lifelong die hard fan of the original film which i have introduced to countless friends over the years and seen... easily over 100 times- yet i still love watching it again from time to time, especially to introduce people to it- always exciting. TBH i wasn't expecting this much CGI. i knew it was being used but not to this extent, however, i am very happy with the results. Thra is a rich, lush, deep, beautiful and dark- and often both- world. it deserves to be expounded upon, filled in and thoroughly explored using any means necessary- but carefully. There MUST be a balance, and the projects must be approached with the right attitude. That said, I've been closely following any and all news concerning the making of the prequel, as well as the sequel which went to comics- which im actually thankful for. The powers that be were too CGI hungry and didnt care what Jim Henson thought so the writers opted for the next best medium. i applaud them for that. This is a world that has been so beloved and respected that it has gotten the loving care it deserves and i cannot wait to watch each episode of this series 100+ times. Aug. 30th- I'm booked solid.
I'd like hear your opinion of the new show once you've watched it. Yeah.
@@EtropolisGhost gladly
@@83KJack what did you think?
But surely that's the ideal use of CGI, use it for the static stuff.
it’s a common mistake but Frank Oz was the performer for Chamberlain, not the voice. Barry Dennen voiced Chamberlain in the original but he died in 2017 so that’s why they got Simon Pegg to do the voice in the series
I'm all for hybrid combinations of puppetry and CGI. Just use the best of both worlds, it's about the end result. The benefit of modern CGI and filming techniques is that you can much easier remove puppeteers from the shot. So the puppeteers can now do much more complicated things than in the 80's. Trailer looks really good, looking forward to this!
I freaking HATE CGI......but I'll rather it be a hybrid then full blown, plus it looks beautiful
Jim Henson embraced technology and tried to mix things as best as he could to get the best effects for the time.
another thing about puppets and practical effects is that it brings out the best in the human actors.
you get much more believable performances if the actor has something physical to interact with.
lukes interactions with yoda vs obi wans interactions with jar jar.
i know which gets my vote :)
Looks amazing. I think the analog/digital background is the way to go. This looks beautiful
One of my most impactful childhood memories as far as movies is The Dark Crystal. I do think you are correct, doing massive practical sets in this day and age is unfeasible unless you are doing a shorter two-hour major movie. Even then as you said it will affect the larger wide shots of the landscape. It would also limit the number of different backgrounds greatly, and they would need to be much tighter shots and small scale. I am hopeful the storytelling measures up. I thought the trailer looked amazing.
I'm a massive Dark Crystal fan and I agree with everything you have said. I don't mind that there is CGI, though it was hard to tell. If the same quality of CGI was available when the original film was created, they would of 100% used it. I'm currently reading J. M. Lee's Dark Crystal books and they run parallel to the series, with the same characters appearing in both. So I am very pleased to see he has written an episode.
yes there should be some type of combination of both puppets and CGI .
As an original watcher of the Dark Crystal, the trailer looks amazing to me and I look forward to the series.
Did you know they used two goblins to animate the Sarah character in Labyrinth ???
Lol!
Were they standing on each other's shoulders the whole time?! 😱
I think only passionate people would make a dark crystal series, so even if it's not perfect I think the soul and passion will be there
Originally, I was going to imagine filmmakers doing a remake of the ‘82 original film using digital puppetry. However, a friend of mine completely doubted it, and I doubted his doubt as well. Anyways, after reading some of the J.M. Lee novels and watching the trailer for the show, I may have been proven wrong by my friend after looking at the astounding puppetry and CGI.
Another good example of this "hybrid" approach is the Amazon Prime "Thunderbirds are Go" show. which I think is up to season 5. They kind of flipped the model from the Dark Crystal. In Thunderbirds, the character models, which were classically puppets are mainly CGI now. But the scenes, settings and most importantly ship models are largely practical effect miniatures. Done by WETA.
I recently watched retrospective of Jim Henson's work on Defunctland channel and he often used a lot of technical innovations. I feel that using best of two worlds is in spirit with work of an old master.
The backgrounds were mostly practical. The CG they did was used to augment the movement of features on some characters faces (like Deet), to create some full characters and animals, and was used to change the colours and light in the frames. But a lot of the background work is done painstakingly by hand and practical.
This is how CG should be used, to augment the practical. Henson Company has always been pretty good with doing this well.
A good example of that is Yoda puppet returning in last Jedi, it was like a breath of fresh air after the CG rubber ball bouncing around we had in the prequels.
According to Mark Hamil a majority of the time he was acting against a ball on a stick in Empire cause the Yoda puppet kept breaking and was getting fixed. That's the real reason why George went to CGI because in the long run it's less expensive and can be improved over time. CG Yoda emotes way better then Puppet Yoda ever could. It's the actors acting against the creation that have to sell that that character is really there. Mark does that in Empire just as Bob Hoskins does it in Who framed Rodger Rabbit which was traditional animation. Like Mark says "It's all pretend."
The puppets in the new series are so beautiful but what I love is that they’ve made them look modern whilst keeping the Gelfling look and the original design. The Skeksis look fantastic too and I’m really excited for the series.
As a filmmaker, I can attest to what you said about the logistics of using only practical effects. It is extremely expensive and will almost always cost a huge portion of your budget if you go that route. Back in the 80's and early 90's, though, people didn't have much choice if they wanted to make a film like The Dark Crystal. CGI was in its infancy and would not hold up even to audiences of that time. I also realize that the overuse of CGI is a problem in modern cinema. What the newer Star Wars movies have done with their use of practical effects and CGI effects is amazing. The technology for animatronics has come a long way in recent years and I can see most fantasy and science-fiction films going this route. Someday, I hope to make my upcoming novel, Odyssey of Fire, into a feature-length film or maybe even a television series. This hybrid of different effects is definitely the way I want to go. I would encourage most filmmakers to go this route as a combination of these things cuts costs needed for other elements in the production, and it holds up in the long run.
if the never ending story comes up for reboot...i hope they keep falcore the luck dragon a puppet
That's one of the things I feel can't be compromised.
Right? I mean that was my childhood...maybe they could change the sphinxs? Lol giant boob statues
I love the look and if this is what it takes today to get movies and shows like this made, then so be it. It can be done so very well when done with care and panache. The CGI in Mad Max Fury Road was so good people didn't believe there was any at all. Just don't go full Sky Captain (which I still love, but it is definitely its own style). The fact that they are using puppets at all is a testament to the legacy of the original and Jim Henson, in general.
The advanced puppetry creates the uncanny valley aspect that drew me in when I experienced original movie. CGI cannot do that…yet.
Actually. It does make sense and I agree. They should also be using people in costumes. You can project a practical background. They did that in King Kong.
I love how nearly everything was handmade. Such valuable items. They should make a museum for all things Dark Crystal. It should be done in a way that makes you feel like you're walking into a fantasy world filled with Gelfling and Skeksis and other things shown in the film
Nailed It.
this is way more epic than I imagined and about to have a huge nerdasm when this comes out. I hope its available to buy on blu ray after its done.
NIGHTMARE IN ZOMBIE CITY playing on CZcams I believe is the only original horror film done 100% via puppetry. Luv your show!
Another aspect of the Practical v. CGI debate apart from the look and level of integration is the on set performance - the more practical elements (set, props, creatures and characters) that actors and puppeteers can see during the shoot, the better the performance. We've all seen many wooden performances where the only thing that actors could see on set was a green screen and a tennis ball on the end of a pole. One of the reasons the Andy Serkis' Gollum works so well is because he performed on set and was then replaced by the digital character, although motion capture was recorded in a dedicated mocap studio. Alita: Battle Angel has taken this one step further where Rosa Salazar's Alita was 100% performance-captured on set allowing full interaction with the set, props and other actors. This all helps to sell the illusion of the CG character. I fully agree that the best option is a combination of practical and digital, but the palette of digital tools is increasing every year.
The hatred of CGI came from Hollywood wanting it to be a replacement to practical work. This was made worse by the fact that CGI wasn't advanced enough to do anything realistically when it was introduced. But you're right, using it as a tool to enhance should always have been what computers were used for.