Backyard Launch Roller Coaster - Part 4
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- čas přidán 16. 11. 2019
- Let's talk about tech for our launch and braking systems! The more I learn, the more I want to make a magnetic launch system come true. Can we do it? Will it be safe? What about braking? Can we use big neodymium magnets and aluminum fins to stop the thing? What kind of tools will we need to build it?
Tell us your recommendations for software, controllers, machining tools, and anything else I'm not thinking of.
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Literal theme park engineer here
A- you would definitely want to use some sort of pneumatic actuator to move the break bars that would fail to the engaged position if power or pressure is lost.
B- you need some sort of shimming on the train so you can adjust the guide wheels in as close as possible to the side of the track and the underslung/up-Stop wheels close the the bottom of the track without touching.
C- those inductive sensors you’ve shown are way to small to reliably detect a train without being either missed or run into.
D- AVOID the ultrasonic sensor at all costs, one of our coasters has one on and is constantly faulting due to birds/leaves on the track.
E- fit an emergency stop on a completely different system that will work if all else fails, literally a life saver. PILZ e-stop/safety relays are on all our rides at work and just cut power to the system, so breaks should automatically engage.
F- in some situations it may be safer to not have an ARB system, so you might not have to worry about brakes on the launch.
Hope these help!
From my point of view (an electrical engineer) I would suggested you to move from an Arduino to an actual PLC. It runs usually on 24vDC and makes it really simple to interface to various actuators (valves or relays) and sensors.
Please don't use those cheap tiny magnetic sensors and get a proper one from a name brand, it's far more reliable.
And as George said, implement an emergency button to shut off every component that may cause harm to the rider. Pilz, Reer and Schneider are my recommendations
You should totally do the magnetic launch, its never been done on a homemade coaster to my knowledge.
I am a big fan of homemade roller coasters and especially love yours
tbs
Meeee
Remember that magnetic launches take A LOT of energy, requiring an electric accumulator (that can get expensive). The advantage of a cable launch is that you can accumulate energy with a flywheel, which is a bit easier, and a lot cheaper.
You could also associate pneumatic and cable launch, in that case the energy storage would be even easier, because it would be in the pressure tank.
The idea of using magnetic brakes is really good tho, because it doesn't require energy, and it doesn't wear a lot over time.
Sorry if some of thoses sentences didn't make a lot of sense but english is not my main language :P
Or use a flywheel accumulator like Hulk
Only part that didn't make sense is saying "tho" instead of "though".
@@ATalkingBadger I've been writing that wrong for half a year, thanks!
@@azertycraftgaming no problem. There's a lot of people whose only language is English and they still can't even speak it right. They get lazy and shorten words because it's "cool" and they say "should of" instead of "should have", which makes no sense. Another word people like to shorten for no reason is "and", where they'll just type "an". English is already the most difficult language to learn, it doesn't help that there are millions of English speakers that talk like they just had severe brain damage.
Solid state all the way! I wish ya luck
Nice work!
Love the video will, great information again brother carnt wait for your next one
Love your videos
Really looking forward to seeing where this goes.! Wish I had to money and space to do this kind of stuff.
As far as I know the brake fines pneumatic (the are also spring loaded to the “up” position so if pressure where to drop the fins will always slow the train). Even most friction brakes are moved using pneumatic cylinders. Also from what I have seen most small(er) coasters use a combination of tube and sheet metal welded together.
You are correct. They are either stationary for the brakes at the end of the ride, or if used on the launch, they lower with air pressure, and are spring loaded up. You are also correct about sheet metal and tubing(assuming you were referring to wheel assemblies?). No milling there, even on the most expensive coasters. Wheel bogies that big would be too heavy and expensive if milled.
*(edit, been thinking about it a bit more, even though its sheet metal milling might still make sense as it is really precious (So parts can be made more accurately) (I know B&M cuts there flange plates for the track but the connection point for the rails is milled afterwards to get it the exact size). As for what type of mill certainly take a look at the CNC mills (like the one shown by wintergarten on marble machine X)
Kazio side note, do you happen to know how B&M makes their box spine track? It is the most peculiar design, because when it does corkscrews or track pieces that twist and curve as well, they have tons of diagonal angles on the top and bottom and sides. Looks kinda like flanged sheet metal then welded and smoothed together, but it is so seamless that I have no idea. Anyone else know as well?
If you are going to do the raised fins for roll back, might as well go to air launch since you will need to run the air tanks anyways for holding the fins down. Electro magnetic, as awesome as that is. As someone else said, the power level needed maybe minus using tons of high capacity cap’s to store juice I think might be an issue. Not even getting into structural integrity.
Then again a tire push off from the load into the magnetic section might work to removed the electrical current jolt needed to move from stationary object and just enhance its forward momentum speed. 🤔. Be interesting to see the math for this.
Tune in Saturday morning, @Raptor2002! We've got a very cool conversation about all that on the schedule. I can't say for sure, but I *think* we touch on most of the issues you've raised here.
That'd be nice if you had the room to try to make the world's first backyard inverted coaster.
Well I'm subscribed now, love me some roller coasters😁
You should definitly consider doing a flying launch, if you want to do it with magnets. It takes less power (because the train is already moving) and thus can be much faster than if it has to move the train from 0-x mph.
Maybe take a look at some of the Gerstlauer Launches. There is a coaster here in Germany, which launches you from ~20 - 100 kph (not miles!) in 1.4 seconds, whereas another coaster (Taron at Phantasialand, Germany too), which is as far as i know the fastest launch from 0 kph to 100 needs 2 secs.
I hope you understand my comment because of my sloppy English xD
I am actually recreating Fluch Von Novgorod (assuming this is the coaster you were talking about) in NoLimits 2 right now! :)
@@tobiasf.j.4438
Yap, that's the one i was referring to.
@@TedsCoasterChannel thought si. Fantastic roller coaster, don't you think? It's my number 3, but I haven't ridden tha many coasters
@@tobiasf.j.4438
I have to confess: i've never been on it, the closest one i got to ride was Karacho at Tripsdrill. And that launch was already awesome.
But the Hansa Park is definitly on my bucket list, probably next year.
With the arduino and gyroscope, you can also measure the Gs! Ive done this for a small sway sensor. A bit time consuming but for 10 bucks it's amazingly accurate!
Love the videos I’m coming la in December can I visit look at your work
most useful "cheap" milling machine I can think of would be a Bridgeport or equivalent knee mill. It's great for any type of manual milling and can be retrofitted with motors to make CNC parts. A small router table would also work, but wouldn't have the option of manual work, everything would have to be in G code.
You should add an inversion of some kind to the layout. Like a vertical loop or something
Nimblee yeah I know. He tried an inline twist and he couldn’t. But with the launch and the added boost he could probably pull off a tear drop shaped vertical loop
TheCoasterCactus lol i have gaven your 99th subscriber😀 i hope you get 100 and then 1000 subscribers👍🏻
Lathe.. Harrison.
Miller.. Bridgeport.
I love this idea, in fact I've had some serious thoughts on doing something like this myself. I look forward to your explanation of the electromagnetic motors as I haven't had much luck myself with the research. Also look into raspberry pi, that is a good microcontroller that can have a touchscreen interface.
You can also use pneumatic cylinders to raise and lower the break fins. The arduino can use a solenoid valve to control.
SO COOOL
Ja ich baue auch ne Achterbahn
Yay! This series is very exciting and entertaining!
I think a magnetic Launch would be the coolest
I can't wait to see the finished product
Bungee and pneumatic launch have already been done on amateur coasters. I'd like you to stick with either a cable launch (electric, Hydraulic, or even flywheel) system as you first proposed, or a magnetic launch system like you talked about here. I'd like to see these options because they are harder and they have not been done an amateur coaster as far as I am aware.
The relays probably won't fire fast enough to meet your needs. You might want to consider IGBT banks to meet the current demand. A variable frequency drive with a programmable acceleration curve might work. A linear motor is basically a round motor that has been cut like a tank track and laid out flat. Buying a wrecked EV wiring harness and controller from a servo based drive motor maybe
I’m so excited and I just can’t hide it!This roller coaster is going to be awesome!
I heard you say that your launch track is only 20 feet or so but if you add a airtime hill you could put the LSM on the hill as you go up giving you a longer launch
I love what you are doing! So so fun! Makes me worry concerning electromagnets though. Most of all being that of power draw. Just to give an idea on power consumption, most magnetically launched coasters draw enough power to power a small city for the duration of the launch, even if just for a few seconds. Obviously you are not launching a train or even one car the weight of an actual coaster car, but hopefully that might give you a reference for how much power it could take, I honestly think that if you had the right magnets to launch your coaster to your desired speed it could knock out some circuit breakers, ha. Most if not all coasters using magnets store their power in high grade capacitor type electrical equipment or fly wheel systems, having slow draw and then instant release. This type of stuff would only be made most likely by industrial grade manufacturers which would most likely be quite expensive.
As well as sensors and relays being able to trigger in a fraction of a second. Power bill may be insanely expensive as well. I wonder how fast car batteries can discharge though since those are used to start a car and are pretty robust. I personally would head for pneumatic and or with a cable. Provides super high power that could be powered by a medium size consumer air compressor, and the best added plus is that it ejects a blast of vapor and sounds neat! Lol. You could get long large metal tubing for your air cylinders. I would actually encase this in another tube or sheet metal shielding in case you had a rupture. Another thought to consider is a flywheel like Anton Schwarzkopf. Montezuma's Revenge at Knott's berry farm uses this. It raises an insanely large weight in a tower that drops, connected to a flywheel connected to a clutch which pulls a cable and launch dog along the track that connects to the train. All you would need is a lot of concrete in a cube or cylinder(maybe a couple 50gal barrels ontop of one another) with a winch and release system that would drop it in an enclosed tower(for safety) and the other components connecting to the car, and Bam! you're off!.
Also concerning wheel assemblies/bogies; If you look closely on even the fanciest manufacturer's like Bolliger & Malbiard (B&M) or Intamin, or others, they are not actually milled much at all, but really just use heavy gauge sheet metal flat or bent, and tubing welded together. I am sure you could do the same as well but with lighter gauge of course. This direction would be much less expensive without having to be milled which can be very expensive for the time of the machinist and machine's mill time/ware.
Regarding the anti-roll-back braking on Intamin/Xcellerator. They use pneumatic fins actually that are sprung up to natural position, and pulled down by air pressure and pneumatic rams, maybe you could replicate this method. I would think this would be easier than a servo. to stop even a 400lb car at speed, you will need surface area as your ally for braking strength. If you look at Xcellerator's brake fins, they probably have a hand width or more of rare-earth-magnet on the train sliding very very closely to the copper brake fins on the track for the eddie current braking. Using pneumatic's could give you the speed, power, and throw distance to move those fins in place. Also just a thought that if you used an air launch, you would already be set up for using pneumatics for your braking system as well.
One last thought I just had, they have go-karts that are electric that accelerate extremely fast, could you take a motor like that or stronger even, hook it up to car or lithium ion batteries, then rig up a cable and launch dog system to haul the coaster car into tomorrow? ;)
I think you are headed in an excellent direction though without a doubt! Can't wait to see you figure out how to build it and what works best for you. I commend you and adore your aspirations with this project, as some day when I get a house and property I would love to do the same! :) Can't wait to see more!
I think that the Schwarzkopf Flywheel launch is the best choice for a backyard coaster, except maybe air pressure is better. You could also do a Schwarzkopf Weight Drop launch, but then you would need a massive tower where a weight is dropped in.
Have you thought about having multiple electromagnets set up on the track with a gap in between? In theory if the currents oppose each other a metal fin attached to the car should be propelled down the track. Not sure if it’ll give you the acceleration you need, but it’s just a thought. I believe LIM launches coasters operate in a similar fashion
Agreed. I'm just learning about electromagnetism. We've got a great video about all that coming out on Saturday morning. I'm thinking about the whole LIM/LSM thing like a surfboard riding a wave. It's all in the timing.
Will Pemble Cant wait! I built a pvc rollercoaster a few years back. It’s been in storage for a few years now, but now that I’m an engineering student, I’ve had a revitalized interest. I’m looking into adding a tame-ish launch just to play with the idea. Can’t wait to see your project progress!!
Can you do drive wheels for breaks
Love your projects and videos Will, the brake fins you see on launch coasters should be failsafe and on UK intamin coasters, they are sprung loaded up and pulled down by pneumatic cylinders.
I would personally go down the route of using a PLC instead of Arduino as they are more reliable especially with humans on board.
I'm an ex UK theme park and cable car engineer with 14 years working on lifts (elevators) so would gladly help in anyway I can. Good luck!
And another fact to consider is circuit switching of the relays: As we all know U_ind = -L * dI/dt, so for a massive inductivity L and an instant stop of the current I, you get a huge reverse induction voltage U_ind. So, the tiny relay you just showed can probably be only used as an input for the massive circuit breaking circuit that needs to sit behind, at best.
To properly cope with the reactive power these electromagnets will produce, you will probably also need a capacitor compensation network.
I see everyone adding skateboard wheels to their coaster cars ... The funny thing about it, I Tested skateboard wheels with the Coaster i built & found that just using Bearings are much Faster.
Really looking forward to seeing this. I'm so happy you're swaying towards using a computer control system with the Arduino!!!!
You may find using an array of magnetic sensors to be more reliable than using an ultrasonic sensor to measure speed. Depending on where you mount the ultrasonic sensor could result in some variation in the speeds it measures. It would mean more computing for the Arduino too, using an ultrasonic sensor.
I like your idea of using the servo/stepper motor to move the brakes. Professional coasters like the intamin accelerators and gerstlauter infinity coasters use a pneumatic piston with a spring to move their eddy current brakes since it gives a higher amount.of safety since the brakes could be restored to a braking position if all electrical and pneumatic power is lost. For what you're doing I think the stepper motor idea would be the way to go, depending on how many brake fins you want to be able to move.
It'd be cool if you and George could talk LIM/LSM launches, that might be interesting. Though I think you would need to use a variable frequency drive for that which would probably involve a more industrial-type control system which would be a lot more expensive.
I really can't wait to see how this turns out! I can tell it's gonna be great!
What if you raised the brake fins with pneumatics
That would be easier with pneumatics
No they hold them down. Fail safe is in the raised position in case an air line blows. Etc. which happens.
I want to hire you to build me a backyard rollercoaster!
Do you have a local maker space that would have machine tools available? Not as cool as owning them but should be bigger and better tools.
True, but makerspace memberships can become more expensive than it's worth if you only use one of the tools.
You need to talk to AvE about clapped-out Bridgeport milling machines. 😂
Yeet! Controling a magnetic launch with a arduino!
Keep up the update videos like these. I want to know how this launch system is going to work.
Why not hydraulic with one or two strong elastic ropes.
I thought you already made a lunch coaster from your past videos
The red lunch coaster
He didnt make that, he just showed someone else's
Hey, you might want to look into using mosfets instead of relays. They work in similar ways to relays except they are faster and are solid state, instead of using a moving part aka a relay
Tire launch
Hi
Adam B Yes
Yes
C Martin how are u
@@adambrown3336 im am doing fine
Please do not use an arduino to control your coaster, that is not safe. Arduino is basically an fpga, there will be problems, it’ll be like a video game in alpha.
You gotta use a real PLC controller, you don’t need an expensive one but you need something that you can put reliable ladder logic into to run your relays.
I have a Mitsubishi touch screen hmi I can send you to use with your PLC
I think the cheaper plc are around $300
Agreed!
Its a good idea about the fins for braking but brake fins are un necessary on a magnetic launch because you can just use the magnets of the launche for braking, the fins on coasters like accelerator or top thrill dragster are for brakingg because its a hydrilic launche which means there is a hydrolic wince that pulls a steel cable which is conecter to a so called catch car that pulles the coaster train forward but as i have sayed the magnets for the launche are also able to break thd coaster (see redforce in ferrari land) i hope this helps
If you need anny more coaster related help please let me know