Does it matter how far footballers run?
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- čas přidán 17. 09. 2022
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The start to the Premier League season has been dominated by the conversation around running stats, and how clubs are outrunning their opponents to great effect.
Both Leeds United and Brentford picked up emphatic victories over Chelsea and Manchester United this season, with the key takeaway being how distance covered seemed to win them the game.
But does the amount of kilometres ran actually matter in a football game?
Written by Jon Mackenzie, illustrated by Philippe Fenner.
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#manchesterunited #premierleague #running - Sport
Interesting. Focusing specifically on ETH making the Man Utd squad run on their day off... I'd like to believe it was more about getting the message across that his team lacked desire when they lost to Brentford. Brentford stuck to their game plan and through determination, won convincingly. ETH was putting a marker in the sand, demanding his team show the grit and determination required to be successful in the EPL.
And also getting himself some credit and buy-in from the players by doing the run himself too
Yeah, I highly doubt ETH thinks running more = winning as this video is alluding to. As TIFO referred to in the video, context is key and the context here is ETH wanted to make a point that his team will not be out worked on the pitch, win or lose. He even said making mistakes and losing is one thing, but being out worked is absolutely inexcusable.
Tifo hate United and try and look for any way to make when Ten Hag has done seem less impressive. They also failed to explain that teams to run more OUT OF POSSESSION have dominated their leagues. City and Bayern both run FAR more out of possession than they do in possession and it shows in how the dominant games. It's not just about running or out running an opponent, but choosing the right time TO outrun them.
I guess pep is going to have to get city to do the same now . Ffs a horrible game this weekend against Brentford.
@@archmetcalfe9663 I don't know, I quite enjoyed it!
I think what Ten Hag established from the exercise of running 13.8 kms was more to do with work rate rather than just running and chasing the ball. Work rate, tenacity, winning second balls and putting that extra effort is very important at this stage for ETH. As the team is work in progress and eventually ETH wants more control and possession, he does not want to lose games because of it right now. When players are more in line with tactics and movement and are also better with the ball, then they might control the games better.. without running and chasing that much. But even if you are controlling the game you still have to work hard, thats the point ETH was proving to the squad imo.
Completely agree. Couldn't have said it better
120% correct,i totally agree
Wish this could be the top comment!
Just write Ten Haag, these abbreviations are just dumb
And it worked
Messi running less only means that he's not defending like Muller, who pressures a lot, and covers and create a lot of space in the opposition half.
Yes, that comparison is honestly laughable in my opinion.
It is comparing apples with oranges. How many more goals and assists does Messi have over Mueller? They play in different position and with different style of play.
@@catchnkill that's exactly my point. Tifo comparing Messi and Muller running stats is irrelevant to the video topic.
@@benedictjajo How is it irrelevant, though? The whole point of the video is that distance ran is an unhelpful measure of performance level. The comparison between Müller and Messi serves as an illustration of that point (and a particularly apt one given Müller's reputation as a "space investigator"; Messi's stats show you don't need to run a lot in order to intelligently create space for yourself).
Messi presses a lot look at his stats compared to other world class forwards but he doesn’t run a like a headless chicken and actually Messi not running is due to his history with injuries, compare his time with Pep and with every other coach and see how many times he was injured
Depends on team style, quality, opposition. Bolton from 2002 defended deep and lumped long balls up to Kevin Davies for Campo/Okocha etc. Modern teams tend towards high pressure with quick balls and therefore run far longer than those before them.
yea, I like to think different parts of the pitch means the team has to make different actions.
Agreed
If you're playing a high line, it's best you have the balance of recovery and ability to keep the ball. You don't want your players to run too much but you don't want to get outran by far too much either
@@nadeemlakhi9206 the key is to get 6 players to do what you just said. Sometimes easy Sometimes not
In my opinion, what Ten Hag wanted is more intensity. Running more in training improves stamina. That does not mean you have to run this much during the match. It gives you the ability not to get tired eaisily and be able to run/sprint when needed.
Rashford, Martial, Bruno are some of the players, I have noticed, won't put on extra gear when opponent was in transition.
Have you actually watched man utd?
Bruno is one of the biggest runners in that team. One of the best pressers in that team.
Take your ronaldo tinted glasses off and watch.
I’d be interested to see any correlation between number of attacking sprints and success.
Running in football is more important than we think.. man City or Liverpool can have 70% of possession but you can see how hard they run the moment they lose the ball therefore it's not really how much you run it's how willing you're gonna do it when you needed to.. so ball domination is not a good example of how less or more a team is running
That's why unlike popular beliefs, I think Rodri is the most important player of Man City, not Kevin De Bruyne.
Rodri dictates the tempo of the attack and his positioning for defensive actions is unreal. He is an outstanding player but creating chances with scoring goals is probably the hardest parts of a game. Hence why there aren’t 5/6/7 goals a game.
@@nont18411 it's not rodri that initiates the press or recovers, it's walker.
I don't know the running stats but City and Liverpool probably run less than other teams since they press and defend efficiently and hang onto the ball more effectively than most other teams.
People think teams that press a lot run a lot but if they press efficiently and are strong in possession they have the ball more often and have to run less often.
Dimitar Berbatov is the best example of working smart, not hard in Football and playing for a top team despite low distances covered. However Hardwork beats Talent if Talent does not work hard.
And Berba was deemed as downgrade to Tevez who kept running all the time at United.
@@harukrentz435 they are different type of players tbh. tevez is able to press and force the opposition to make mistakes. berba is a player that can make space and link up play.
I think the whole Ten Hag forcing Man United to run the kilometers is due to him wanting to assert dominance in the dressing room especially after a humiliating defeat, not because it has anything to do with winning the game if they had run that much
This comment aged very well mate😊😊
Drawing statistical inferences from Messi is useless, he's an outlier in almost every aspect of the game
Yeah, Messi be like;
MESSI; Injured, out of form, and sitted on floor.
Opposition; hm, lets keep 2 players marking him, just in case...
@@RoyMatzem Just like the best players before (and after him will): He's just THAT good that even injured and out of form you have to mark him. Because he will have a field day if not.
Baggio, R9, CR7, Maradona, Zidane are/were all players like that
Running SMART, not blind running. Most of the runs are to press the opponents and off the ball movement. If they just run without any real strategy, then they just chase the ball blindly. The best example of the team that runs smart is Leicester when they won EPL.
I'd say the answer given Leeds and in La Liga in recent years, the relegation of Eibar in the 20-21 season would suggest that contradicting info as how far they run matters on if a team scores first but outrunning an opponent doesn't lead to more possession or goals overall as it can often lead to more goals allowed late from fatigue.
As in one can condition players to run further, but it'd either mean they're sacrificing pace early in the game or fatigued late. And to score first, you're pushing the advantage and hoping the goalkeeper can hold on.
Edit: This is a bigger problem for teams with aging core player groups like what happened with Eibar's forwards in 20-21 both being over 30.
It's far more important what you do with your movement than how much you move.
correct. man utd at the end of last season didn't even bother to do either anymore.
The quality on this video seems lower than usual, everyone knows that running doesn't equal winning. Wanted more analysis on smart movement and precise pressing patterns against mindless geggenpressing,
And how running too much also affects other parts of the game and it's effects on both attack and defence.
I mean you are better watching coaches and analyzers than tifo football bcs he never speaks about the game on not "surface level" topics
Pep Linders new book may interest you
Well the title of the video isn't "running and smart movement" to be fair
They're too upset about the Queen, lay off yeah.
It's been like that for a while now with tifo their vids are just not as good as they used to be a couple years ago
A small error I believe, the run took place on a Sunday not a Monday. It was the reason we had the whole sports science debacle because you can’t make players run a day after a games apparently. They then had the day off on Monday.
This is an interesting topic. I'd love to hear more about the correlations with it. The example of Leeds I don't think is a fair point tho. If anything, it proves that running DOES matter. 30 games, 13 wins, 14 losses, 3 draws is a VERY good return for a newly promoted side. This would be an example of where running more would give an extra advantage over the lower level of talent that team has (relatively speaking). Leeds in this instance should be compared to other newly promoted teams. And 42 points in 30 games is a VERY good return.
That doesn't mean running necessarily was the reason for that. As much as perhaps the insane style of Bielsaball that other teams had to figure out. But the counter-factual there is what Leeds would have done had they not run more than the opposition. And I think it's fair to say they would not have 42 points in 30 games if they'd run less.
Leeds could be an anomaly of course, this is just an example. And you could of course say that teams burnout from these styles of play as you can't keep that kind of intensity up for repeated seasons. So the main point is you have to factor in the QUALITY of the team and their opposition when comparing the running stats. The possession part is a good example. But if we factor in the relative quality of teams, we would get a better comparison of how much running matters. Has that reason been done?
@Tifo Football
*Please make an updated video about the correlation between ball possession and winning games at 2022.*
The more interesting question is how hard they run and when they run rather than how far.
Messi clearly conserves his energy for attacking, managing fatigue doesn't get discussed much but it must be an interesting part of the game.
Efficient movement has to also be an important factor due to stamina and being in the correct positions quicker
I think man utd run less OUT of possession than Brentford which is why he made them run 13.8km
its almost like you cant boil football down to just one specific stat but as im sure we all realise his main point wasnt the distance, its the commitment, effort and all those other buzzwords
Great style on the new animation!
The amount of running isn’t necessarily important but more the intensity of running depending on the system. In the first phase of TH system we need to press intensely to win the ball back quickly and dominate the ball. It’s roughly similar to Pep where he’s known to give his players a 30 second timer in training to win the ball back. For whatever reason we weren’t doing that against Brentford and the system collapsed.
Wasn't it a man management tactic more than a coaching one?
I would agree with that
United's intensity increased from next match and results changed surely that punishment worked ..tifo should make videos with including common sense too
Or simply you should have compared how much teams run per unit time without possession you would know the united were lacking there
I thoroughly enjoy the tactical assessment of "running more gives a better chance of scoring"
Who'd have thought that eh?
In the AFL coaches used to equate pressure with tackles and would use tackle count as a measure of success until it was worked out that which ever team had less of the ball usually had more tackles.
In the NFL, Jordyn Brooks and Bobby Wagner had the most tackles in the NFL. The Seahawks were also the team with the least amount of time of possession with the ball. In other words, the defense was out on the field more often than not, and the tackles are a product of volume, not effectiveness.
gonna look back on this in 30 years and look at how this was the start of ssomething great
This is turning out to be quite complex however putting the defensive side of the game to one side I believe the activities which lead to an increased number of attempts on goal is vitaly important.
So: running is important when it's important, and less/not important when it's less/not important. This is the brilliant insight I expect from The Athletic.
Yesterday in the match atletico-real Madrid, I saw the km covered by both teams towards the end of the match (ATL: 106.5 km vs RMA: 99 km) so I don't think it's the key factor for success
would it be possible to link the papers and journal editions cited?
Yes. It does. Though, there is a soft constant in the equation, that the player has to be running in the right direction. But how far a player runs multiplied by how smartly they figure out where to run does equate to success.
I think Messi is a poor example though. Messi can control space in large part with the power of his name. Any other player on earth save maybe Ronaldo and Neymar could tread the same exact spots Messi did and wouldn't achieve the same results. Likewise most other players aren't exempted from defending like he is (where much of running comes). I think however running makes the most sense when compared to the same team. Leeds is always going to run so comparing their running numbers to from week to week would be more interesting to me. And in ETH's case his goal is to implement a high intesity high pressing system. It's completely different from say prime Barcelona getting outran.
imo its more of looking for space/running into space to make passing channels available. United attackers has been very static and not proactive in the past. ETH is probably looking to change that.
Pls could you do a video on paolo monster as allegri replacement or just allegri replacement in general
He needs the trust of the fans and the higher ups at the club. He is an elite manager with amazing ideas about football. He can't work wonders though. He needs time. United are where Arsenal where 2-3? years ago when Arteta first took over. It's a marathon not a race.
In the modern game running wide distances surely has its advantages for everyone. But I would still say it hugely depends on the played system and your position.
I expect a CDM to run up and down the field, closing every gap he or anyone else can find. 11, 12, 13 kilometers are not unusual for that.
I expect a "modern 10" to cover some ground as well, but not as much (Thomas Müller is running around 100 out of 90 minutes).
but I would have never expected Pirlo to do this amount of legwork. He would have been wasted (and utterly useless since he moves like a 40 year old since he's 18) doing that.
This was a very strange video, because it didn't really ask the correct questions.
Obviously, Leeds are not going to win every game that they outran the opponent, because running isn't the only variable. But what would have happened in those games had they run less than their opponent? How did Leeds perform in the games in which they were outrun? While there are still lots of variables that aren't controlled, that's the important comparison.
I would say that there are two schools of thought about running. If you run far and intensely, and are doing other things well, then you have a defensive shape for certain scenarios, and then are reacting to the play. For example, if you leave your man free to mark the space, and then close him down quickly if he gets the ball, then you will run further than if you simply mark him at all times. However, if you leave him to mark the space, and then don't really close him down when he gets the ball, you run less, and he is then a more dangerous player, as he has time and space. In this scenario, the hypothetical defending player (and therefore team if you extrapolate) plays better if he runs more.
On the other hand, as exemplified by Messi, if you know where to stand, you need to run less, because your movements are optimized. Going back to the previous example, if the player gets his position right when marking the space, then he runs less to the attacker than if he had dropped too deep.
Overall, these things need to be factored in when looking into whether outrunning your opponent means anything. Basically, "what if they had outrun us instead?", "am I playing well enough defensively?" and "have I got my positioning correct?"
When you outrun the opponent and still lose, you know you gave it your all. So it gives you that mental strength and does not let that loss affect you as much as losing and knowing you did not give it your all.
I think it just had more to do with the intensity that utd played with. They looked like they weren’t trying. Running distance can vary but like city and Liverpool the second they lose the ball they press has a team with intensity and desire. Both of which were missing from utd after Brentford.
Patrice Evra said that Max Allegri made Juventus players run at least 12km during games, which doesn’t sound like much until you remember that those Juventus teams almost always dominated possession. Relentless!
I imagine it matters how far footballers CAN run in the context of a 90 min game, opposition adjustments, and the nuances of game play/tactical execution? Or is it run smart, not hard? or is THAT up to the coach? :D
Running more tires out players as well which may lead to late goals conceded if everyone is knackered and off it
If running distance mattered then Kenya would have a world class team!
he made united players run because they didnt try to win kept their head down and let brentford beat them 4-0 they showed that they lack desire to win and was planning to do same as they did last season
The Leeds example seems very poor from a scientific point of view. Simply because Leeds won almost as much as they lost does not prove anything about a correlation between running and winning. If we were to make this type of assumption about one team, we would need a different test set-up. Because maybe, if Leeds ran less they would have lost every game. We could go about it some other ways, like checking the games in which Leeds ran less and more than the opponent and then comparing them. Or check the 30 game run, and see how often they were expected to win and how often they won. Still this will at best only measure correlation. Perhaps the team ran more because they are worse than the opponent, or because of some playing style. To many intermediate variables at play in the football game..
Sure in isolation the example of Leeds means nothing but they way they talk about it, it sounds like there is similar lack of correlation for every other team (edit: every other team they ran the numbers on), they just picked Leeds as one example.
@@DavidChong So as a data analyst who works in professional football, I know that quite some people of the athletic have a background in science, so no doubt in my mind they know what they are talking about. Sometimes I’d just wish to would cite some articles in their claims, I think the audience is smart enough for that.
You don't make the players run to make them "catch up" you make them run to punish them for being outworked.
The EtH thing was about mentality, y'all are reading too much into it.
Plus; Messi walks around
Media: wow
Ronaldo (who's older, by the way) walks
Media: that's why his team doesn't win. He's the problem.
ETH's methodology was not about running or athleticism- it was about work. he needs to communicate to his side "we are manchester united. and teams will play against us with intensity, passion, dedication, and an intent to win on the day for an upset. we have to have an expectation for perfection. an expectation has to be upheld by us, to be the hardest working team." so when he saw that brentford were simply better than his own side at something, he told them he couldn't tolerate it. and that's a prime manager, right there.
If you ask my mum it is the most important thing in football even if you try and point out you can exploit space left behind tactically if everyone is pressing all the time.
Does anyone know where to get game by game individual running stats?
so basically work to your personal strengths and manage the team you got with their overall strengths, nothing new. it's why managers fail because they try playing players a certain way that don't suit them in turn making it harder for themselves.
Part of the reason United's running distance was low is because players like Rashford, Ronaldo and Sancho don't press even when that's clearly part of ETH's philosophy. Look at the difference in how they played against Liverpool and it's clear that the message about running got through to some of them
That’s the beauty of football. So many variables take place that one does not dominate the game.
I think Erik Ten Hag saw the running gap was through a lack of workrate. Whilst possession means less running it does not produce 13km less. Since that Brentford game, thankfully United have kept on winning.
Running more means you'll cover more areas on the pitch .
Passing better means you ain’t gotta run
@@DFranco23 you will still loose the ball either way
@@DFranco23 How do you move the ball up the pitch if you don't run?Hmm? 🤨?🤓
But it means nothing if there's no finishing otherwise Eibar would still be in La Liga and Jose Luis Mendilibar would still be manager as the analytics suggested both heavy pressing and running out of the team.
@@jamespadilla7070 positions and keeping your shape?
It would be interesting to see how much less a team can afford to run and still win games, and vice versa, how much more a team can run and still lose. Because I’m seeing the comparison is like maybe the team running less clocks 85-95% of the total running distance of the team running more. Maybe we can see how it goes if that percentage is 75%, or even close to 50%! I honestly don’t believe any team can even stay in the game properly if their total running is only 50% that of their opponent.
As an Asian fan, I see the South Koreans consistently outrunning and outmuscling most other Asian team to win matches, yet the same tactic becomes less effective at the higher level as the running and muscle gap gets close up and the technical ability gap got expose.
At the same time, the Japanese always seems to have so much possession at Asian level, they really look like they are passing the ball in circles between the halfway line and penalty box and forget where the goal is, their players look like they do less running and still control the game. And then their problem at the world level is somewhat the reverse of the Koreans, being not physical enough at times and out hit by bigger opponent who may or may not run more.
And finally as a Singaporean, some of the first groans I always hear of my own national team is that my players “cannot run”, which makes this video about running even more interesting.
I would say yes becoz intensity is part of soccer
I love your videos, but this one fell short for me. It added nothing of value and the outcome/conclusion was obvious before even clicking on the thumbnail. Still love the channel though! Keep up the good work :)
It doesn't matter how far they run. What matters is who or what they're running away from.
I don't think it does. I remember running two laps around a track in Middle school but yet still had run to play a practice match and I was still scoring goals just fine.
😂😂😂 this comment is hilarious
Short answer yes
Came for the banter, stayed for the research methods analysis. 😵💫
6:13 as usual, you forgot to update it.
It was a Sunday morning. The game was on Saturday.
Well-known Dutch coach Raymond Verheijen would say that running for the sake of running is a waste of training time, as there is no evidence that this carries over to the type of actual movement that occurs during the match.
Do one on Bayern's crisis and Nagelsmann tactics before he gets sacked, and then do one on why he got sacked. Two for the price of one. Hopefully narrated by Joe Bovine and presented by James Joseph Bullard or Jon The Body McKenzie
The question should be 'Can looking at a single metric tell you how much a team is likely to win?' answer: no
If you are an aspiring footballer, Don't look at Messi's or Muller's distance covered. You're not them. It's better that you can run for the whole 90 minutes than not.
The examples in this video, probably does not apply to you. So go ahead, wake up early and have your kilometers in the morning.
The obsession with running has produced a lot of players that can run really fast but have limited technical ability. See a guy like Dan James who is lightning quick but mediocre on the ball
Faster further better stronger
The more superior a team is technically and tactically, the less they may have to run. If hard running is part of the gameplan, it must increase their success surely.
Lol
yes
I wonder how much running Barcelona did with tiki taka style of play?
Quality over hard work seems to be the difference maker.
a collective 13.8km is vastly different to 13.8km covered by every player
"Very specific"
Good England!
No context Tifo: “There has been some academic research that shows the advantages of running in football”
Legend has it Maguire is still running
In the words of Johann Cruyff it's not how much u run but knowing when to run.
Yes it does!
I don't care what the team style is or about any stats.
These MILLIONAIRES are paid more money than their fans will ever see in a lifetime. The least they can do is work hard and show effort!
How do you make videos like this?
Erik knows better than these guys , maybe he knows they needed to run more for his play style. Maybe it has to do with defending. Quality of this video is lower imo.
In 2 months, the FIFA World Cup in Qatar. Do you think the meme token of the Qatar Inu (Qatar) World Championship with a capitalization of $ 51,000 during the championship will be able to give X100-X1000 on this hype? I invested $ 200 in it, which is not a pity to lose, suddenly it will take off on the hype around the World Cup.
I mean I've a done an 11km run, an i was capable of running more, and those are professional athletes so i don't think 14km is extreme.
Ask Tomas Soucek..
Dimitar Berbatov never made a run or sprinted in his career, yet was world class
Yet he failed to live up the expectation as SAF most expensive player ever.
THE BALL MOVES QUICKER THAN THE PLAYER SO MAKE IT DO THE WORK
Messi was told to run less to reduce injuries and prolong his career.
Ronaldo Fenomeno might have hard a longer career if he controlled hid physical exertion
Muller defends more also thou Messi is not asked to track back
If you lose 4 nothing then yes it's important how far you run
Comparism based just on numbers doesn't say much. You mentioned context and then compared directly only numbers of Messi and Müller just after. Messi is not good because he is not running. The same goes for Müller. But Elf showed in Brasil, how the beautiful game of football is played. It's simple - if you run more, you make your chances better.
The answer is yes.
Sometimes you need to sign players with three lungs to make your fantasy tactic work.
For Messi/Muller:
People will start and end their debate on offense with Messi’s Goals/Assists compared to Muller.
Most people are completely ignorant of the defensive side on the game. (I.e. don’t value or acknowledge it)
Anyone that played football, knows it takes 11 men to defend the pitch.
When one player (Messi) does not contribute on the defensive press, it forces all 10 other players to pick up thier slack.
Imagine defending and trying to win the ball back from your opponent with 10 men the whole match.
This is what it’s like playing with Messi. He gives you absolutely NOTHING on defense.
You can say, well he scores goals, he doesn’t have to play defense.
I will say, you won’t win many trophies that way. Also, I don’t want a player like that on my team. Nobody is bigger than the team.
Messi ain’t win that much since Xavi, Iniesta Pep Era.
Messi is like KD. He needs a great team around him to do the dirty work. He is not like Jordan where he can elevate the players around him.
Erik Ten Hag want them to high pressing
It was a SUNDAY morning, not a Monday.......I'm such a nerd.
It was a sunday. They played saturday.
I love playing soccer but I hate running 😅
It doesn’t matter if you are 2011 Barca… 2022 United better run their butt off…