Where is the Tomb of Jesus?
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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The Church of the Holy Sepulchre, located in the Old City of Jerusalem, is one of the holiest sites for most Christians worldwide. It is believed to house the site of Jesus's crucifixion and burial. But what can archaeology tell us about the church and its surrounding area? Is it a plausible location for the Tomb of Jesus?
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00:00 Introduction
1:54 Critical Excursus
5:59 Origin Story of the Site
8:44 Archaeology of the Vicinity
11:55 Why did Constantine dig here?
14:25 Case for Plausibility
15:11 Case for Inauthenticity
18:14 The Garden Tomb
Select footage and images courtesy of Getty
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why you gotta steal first comment like this? rigged
I have a question. where is golgotha?
The Garden Tomb IS the authentic tomb. And that IS Golgotha nearby. Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and now the TRUE "Gospel" ("GOOD NEWS") is also ready for discovery by those with ears to hear, after having been buried under the sands of time for 2000 years. (I correspond only through my sites.)
Thank you sir, this is my first time taking up a free offer like this from a CZcamsr. Should have taken advantage of this learning sooner, but better late than never.
@@tomrhodes1629 dang that's a really cool story bro, you got time to tell it again?
Maybe the Tomb of Jesus is the friends we made along the way
Stop, just stop with that overused meme
@@CommanderShepard-wq3wo Dead memes are just the forgotten friends we made along the way.
lol
“Where everybody knows your name…and they’re always glad you came…”
Empty friendships, eh?
I was still a Christian when I visited the Holy Seplucar in 1983. While I was skeptical of its authenticity, I found it interesting and inspiring just because it was a long standing pilgrimage site. Where true or not, it was THE place people had venerated as the burial place for 1700 or so years. Being part of that tradition was in itself inspiring without accepting it as a fact.
That's kinda how I feel about Christianity. I don't believe in many of its central teachings but when I visit an old church it feels very spiritual, hallowed by generations through the passage of time.
@@chendaforest Me too.
I used to get great joy from being part of a ~2000-year-old tradition. It was largely the irrational fundamentalist (and many moderate churches) insistence in trying to logically prove the Bible that drove me out. No one was supporting faith as a justification so mine slipped away.
@@Pooneil1984 have you looked into other religions? I've studied all the major ones and my beliefs are a bit of a hybrid, firmly in the spiritual-but-not-religious camp.
@@chendaforest I am secular now.
It's funny - I was brought up Anglican, and I tried to feel it but couldn't, and converted to pagan tradition when I was about 14 or 15, on my own initiative. The Old Gods are to me what I guess Jesus is to many devout christians. But I still love walking into sacred sites, old churches and cathedrals, and feeling that sense of history behind them, all the years and generations of people who passed through.
“The whole earth is the tomb of heroic men and their story is not given only on stone over their clay but abides everywhere without visible symbol, woven into the stuff of other men’s lives.”
- Pericles
Its like what we do in life echoes in eternity. I obviously didn't steal that from a famous film.
Mausoleum of Halicarnassus
I love this quote. It’s the line you get when you build the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus in Civilization V, and I used to just sit and re read it. Such a cool way of explaining our impact in the world
@@chendaforest Who got it from a famous man 😄
The Helena stuff is fascinating because it seems to show how much differently ancient peoples looked at the world than we do. To a modern audience "I talked to the people who live in the town where this happened and they said this is where the tomb is" would be much more compelling than "My mom, who has never been to Jerusalem, had a vision and said this is where we should dig". If something like this were to happen today, it would be much more likely that the latter story would be covered up with the former, but in the ancient world, direct revelation seems to have been more compelling in some cases than more reliable forms of evidence. It kind of makes me think of Paul, and his "I was not told this by any man nor was I taught it" type replies when put into a position where he needed to defend his credentials. As with the Helena narrative, apparently a whole lot of early Christians found this more compelling than Peter's credential of "I personally knew the guy and lived with him for years".
Helena would have travelled with a full slice of the Imperial court. That would include historians, geographers, translators and linguists, explorers, traders, etc. And, yes there would be locals who knew the area.
The burial site would have had graffiti from pilgrims identifying it as the burial site. Recall that one of Mary's site has an ancient graffiti something like "Here was Mary" in Greek scratched into the wall.
Now, her find would have carried more weight if it was accompanied by a spiritual component, like a vision. But I doubt anyone would try to fool the emperor's mother. The site would have had to be where the locals said it would be. No one would be so foolish as to name a phony site.
Dumb people exist in every era.
Its literally the meme of:
Guy 1: source?
Guy 2: it was revealed to me in a dream
The problem is that there are NO contemporary accounts. The people and historians of the time, who were otherwise very meticulous, simply knew nothing about the whole story. Strange.
@@thephidias No contemporary accounts of what exactly? The burial location of the leader of a tiny apocalyptic movement only important to a few illiterate local peasants? Hundreds of leaders of hundreds of very similar rebel and apocalyptic movements were killed by the Romans during this time. Jesus wasn't even the only one crucified that day. It seems strange to expect that this one would be heavily documented when none of the others were. In fact, we have more evidence closer to the time of his life than literally anybody alive in his time and place.
Also, where is this cadre of meticulous historians running around first century Judea? As far as I am aware, there is literally only *one* prominent historian known from that context, and he was anything but meticulous.
Josephus is a massively problematic figure hated by many Jews at the time for turning traitor and allying with the Romans during the sacking of Jerusalem, ultimately going full Uncle Tom and declaring a belief that the Roman Emperor Vespasian was the Messiah. While his writings are immensely valuable for drawing information about the Jewish revolt against the Romans and the context that led to it, he was functionally an arm of the Roman propaganda wing and so his writings have to be carefully and critically examined with that in mind, to the point that there are whole university classes dedicated to dealing with bias and inaccuracy in Josephus.
Given all this, he wouldn't be particularly motivated to provide detailed and honest accounts of the hundreds of anti-imperialist religious movements that were cropping up around him, even if he could be expected to be aware of all of them, which he certainly couldn't. Despite all that though, Josephus mentions Jesus twice in two independent places, once during a summary of the movement that was heavily modified by later Christians, but is wholly unsurprising in its original form, and again in a much less contentious passage discussing the execution of his brother James. Far from there being a whole bunch of meticulous historians in first century Palestine that just ignored Jesus entirely, there was literally one prominent historian in the whole region, who had good reason to ignore and downplay movements like this one, who still mentions Jesus twice.
Going down the Jesus myth rabbit hole is just fundamentalism in reverse. If you accept the fundamentalist framing that Jesus was running around raising corpses and controlling the weather, then suddenly you aren't just looking for a minor prophet from a marginalized religion focused on the lower classes in a backwater of the Roman empire. You are looking for a God-Man who rose up to heaven in front of thousands of people, and then, yeah, sure, the evidence for the details of that guy's life should be overwhelming. Everyone would be talking about the magic man. Only fundamentalists and hardcore atheists accept that framing though, because it's just kind of silly. Historians and scholars are looking at the leader of a small, local, failed anti-imperialist apocalyptic movement that grew into a major religion after the execution of its founder, because that is who the evidence says that Jesus actually was.
As an atheist, I find biblical archaeology, and archaeology in region of the present-day Middle East so incredibly fascinating, just because of how much the ancient history of those lands is still shaping the whole world today
Yes indeed it will always continue to tell earth's story the land can speak volumes yes indeed
Most of biblical archeology is 99% accurate to the bible.
Anybody can be god
Ancient myths shaping the world is a bad thing actually.
@alexlemus2559 and I would still oppose wirshipping each and everyone of them.
I spent 6 months living in Jerusalem in 2016, and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was my favourite place to go. Despite being raised Jewish, I could really feel the power of that space. I would often take a book and sit in one of the alcoves, and take in the smell of incense and sound of the different sects praying. I felt very at peace there.
You may enjoy reading Margaret Visser's "The Geometry of Love" - at least in part. It's not about the Holy Sepulchre, but it is about how a church is designed to 'lead' the visitors along a path in several ways (physical, architectonical and emotional/spiritual).
I visited when I went to visit family. Raised Catholic, it wasn't the really the religious aspect that impressed me. It was the quite tranquillity, even with pilgrims from all over the world. Everyone whispered. Powerful is definitely the word I'd use. Shabbath Shalom!
Follow Christ
Sects? You may be confusing Christian denominations with Jehovah's witnesses or LSD groups.
@@chrisklausner4418 No❤
Observation: I’ve seen it mentioned numerous times that the bodies of crucified victims were left hanging to be devoured by dogs and carrion. The clear implication is that the crucifixions occurred very close to ground. Probably at virtual eye level. This would increase the humiliation and suffering of the condemned. The depictions we see of Jesus being elevated high above the ground in crucifixion scenes is an attempt to elevate his death above the humiliating way it was performed. This simple transformation has a profound psychological impact.
Could also be that the bodies eventually just fell off the crosses
Interesting observation. I can see ancient Romans not wanting to expend the resources to make crosses longer just to execute someone they did not value. It is interesting that the other two people mentioned as being crucified next to Jesus are not mentioned as being physically lower implying that they were at the same level as Jesus and if this was the case and it is unlikely they would have been given special status like some might argue Jesus was given when crucified, I see it most likely that Jesus was crucified at the same level as all the rest. Also, which Jesus of the many crucified that day, was the one mentioned in the Bible? Romans tended to crucify in groups, large groups. Jesus was the most common male name in that time and place. It is by some estimates, the name of as many as ten percent of men in Judea 2000 years ago, much like Joe and John and Bob and Mike and Bill were in this country once upon a time. So it is extremely likely that there were multiple people with that name crucified that day which no doubt confused many scholars.
Thats true that they could have fallen off. I would say though that crucifying someone closer to the ground is easier on the back.
@@jeffpalaganas7404 Yup. People are lazy. Why bother with a tall cross when a short cross does the job just as well? But they were probably not eye level. If the point was humiliation, it would make sense to elevate the condemned at least above the crowd, so they are visible from some distance.
In my country public exexuations still happen and they are normally executed above the height of the crowd so it can be seen from a distance and leave an impact
Love your work. Religion for breakfast is the first channel I recommend to anyone who wants intelligent information about religion.
same
100%. Unbiased information delivered clearly. Doesn't get better than that... :)
So is "Let's Talk Religion":youtube.com/@LetsTalkReligion
He is Christian not fully unbiased as it is human to have biases. Yes though much efforted to be fair on the facts and respectful in views of others.
I know many that would still be offended of this sort of respect is not more bias.
@@Chamelionroses He’s Christian? Always assumed he was an an atheistic Jew. I’ll have to say that I’m slightly biased against Christian’s. I hope you’re wrong about his religion and I hope I’m right about him being a secular Jew.
Ah, yes. The ladder is still there. Some things simply don't change.
I've been to both the Garden Tomb and the Holy Sepulchre and have had mass in both. I must say that if you want worthwhile ritual the Holy Sepulchre is where you want to go. The Garden Tomb simply doesn't carry so much gravitas. That's rather ironic given that it's definitely the older edifice, but I guess the way Protestantism works they'll simply never develop it to the same level.
As an aside, one of the smaller tussles between the orders in the HS took place about three days after I was there. I heard they then closed down the Aedicule for about a week and even had the Muslim keyholder family come in to help symbolically lock the church gates to force the combatants to enter arbitration. I'm just glad I already had a chance to enter the Aedicule before all this happened.
If by gravitas, you mean dingy, ugly, and oppressive, then you can have it. In terms of gravitas, give me the colosseum. In terms of quality, I'll take trees over bricks any day of the week.
Though I'm convinced of the HS's authenticity, I have to say I thought the Garden Tomb was a more powerful site. The dome of the HS is lovely, but I didn't find the aedicule itself, or Calvary, powerful particularly. On the other hand, the GT was peaceful and well kept, preserving the original atmosphere and relying on natural beauty. I was stunned by it.
When I was in the Holy Land, the explanation I was given was that Protestant missionaries were denied access to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and so out of their rage, they started doubting the legitimacy of the Church. This is likely an apocryphal tale.
This particular story may be apocryphal, but when imagining 19th century Protestant missionaries or scholars coming to Jerusalem, I can see a few ... problems arise. :D The decorations and rituals in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre are so very alien to Protestants influenced by Puritans or Reformed practices, so I can understand why some of them trried to look elsewhere. Or if they tried to get equal status for Protestant services in the church, I'm pretty sure the messy politics of the traditional denominations there made sure they were quickly shouted down for bringing that idea up. And I can imagine that they didn't receive that very well, as they tended to take themselves very seriously.
They always look for the cointerfeits.
Quality content as always! I'm an atheist with a fascination for history and the history of religion, and your always manage to surprise me with well-researched quality content. Thank you!
I'm pleasantly surprised by the plausibility of the traditional site given that I was more familiar with the skeptics' case on this. Folk memory is a fascinating thing, and, in any case, echoing others, I agree that it's the meaning a place takes on over time which lends it a sacred aura.
Salam, Shalom, Peace.
In The Year 325 AD Roman Constantine [Treaty Of Nicaea], Emulated Greek And Roman Mythological Polytheistic Religions.
The Greek Zeus Son Of God, Became Jesus Son Of God.
The Roman Triad Of Juno, Jupiter And Minerva, Became The Trinity Father, Son And Holy Ghost.
The Rabbi's Say That In Torah It Mentions Moses, But Moses Was Their Bringing The Torah, Thus It Is The Prophet Muhammad.
Songs Of Solomon, The Word Muhammadim, The Rabbi's State This Means His Lover.
But King & Prophet [Missing In Torah/Gospel] Cannot Have Unwed Relations.
Thus The Translation Error Of His Lover = Praiseworthy = Muhammad = im = Respect.
Also Both Torah/Gospel State That Abraham The Friend Of God, Was Unwed To Hagar The Egyptian Handmaid.
Once Again The Friend Of God, Cannot Have Unwed Relations.
The Vedas [Monotheistic] Bans In Many Verses All Forms Of Polytheism, But Modern Hindu's Follow The Guru Books, Into Polytheism, With Their Pandits Banning Them From Reading Vedas.
In Many Verses Of Vedas It Mentions The Coming Of Prophet Muhammad.
The Avesta [Zoroastrian Bible] Also Mentions Prophet Muhammad.
Ancient Jews & Christians [Sabaeans Monotheistic Sect] Used To Perform The Hajj At Becca [Now Mecca].
Even Moses Performed The Pilgrimage To Becca [Mecca].
The Polytheists Kingdoms Envied Becca [Mecca] So They Built Replica Kaaba's.
Eventually Over Time, They Captured Becca [Mecca] And Placed 360 Idols Into The Kaaba.
The Polytheists Bared The Jews, Whilst Allowing The Sabaeans [Christian Monotheistic Sect].
The Jews Exiled From Pilgrimage, Make A Replica Kaaba Made From Leather, Religious Scripture Within, With Leather Straps Going Round The Arms Seven Times, Replicating The Seven Circumambulation Of The Kaaba.
Even Birds Circumambulate, The Planets, Stars All Glorify God, For Their Existence.
The Kaaba Was Originally Built By Adam And His Family, But Over Time The Kaaba Has Been Destroyed And Rebuilt.
Well the idea of a rival Protestant tomb is too hilarious. But the Holy Sepulcher has a much stronger case than I thought. It reminds me of the mound of Hissarlik. There was a consistent tradition in the area from late antiquity or before, that it was the ruins of Troy.
Intertesting video. Happy Easter to those who celebrate.
The holy sepulchers case is also very weak when consider how archeology works, the only qualification it has is being outside the wall which may have even been a fluke from the excavations that was made specifically trying to look for it inside the walls that followed by the fact that most tombs resided outside the wall makes its case even worse
The only reason the garden tomb looks worse is because it was more open to scrutiny as opposed to the holy sepulcher which is literally inside a church.
0:28 that ladder tho hahaha
It's a bit of an eyesore, we should just move it somewhere else tbh. It's not like that would start a war or anything
I love this dude. Whenever i wanna learn about religion, particularly my own Christian faith, i like coming to this channel because he always presents evidence from opposing sides. Well done Andrew, keep up the good work. Happy Triduum 🙏
Search the scriptures. Jesus loves you!
@@MichaelAChristian1Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 for starters, which predict the crucifixtion 800 years early. Secular historians are unanimous in that Jesus was crucified.
@@EzioAuditoreDaFirenze99 Read Genesis chapter 40. What do you see? Get a King James Bible and believe. Jesus Ioves you!
@@MichaelAChristian1 The grapes and wine symbolize blood, which is life, and the bread symbolizes flesh, which is death.
When we drink of the blood of Christ we are drinking into His life (which is Spirit), and when we eat of His body, we are eating into His death and ressurection.
This is why we should not adulterate this sacrament, because it represents the covenant, and anything that is representative is not only symbolic, but is Spiritually living.
I was wondering, can you interpret dreams? I have been having some lately that trouble me.
It's wonderful for us Christian Catholics
Several years ago I read an article about the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and it stated that archeologists who examined the place had determined that the Holy Sepulchre itself and the two nearby side-by-side niches were part of a burial complex known as the Tomb of the Court, built by the Sanhedrin for the entombing of convicted, executed criminals. So if Mark was accurate in saying Jesus was tried and convicted by the Sanhedrin before he was tried, convicted and executed by Pilate, this place *would* have been the location of Jesus's burial.
Man, Josephus is really a godsend for Jewish and Christian historical scholarship.
An account of John the Baptist is found in all extant manuscripts of the Antiquities of the Jews (book 18, chapter 5, 2) by Flavius Josephus (37-100):
"Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod's [Antipas's] army came from God, and that very justly, as a punishment of what he did against John, that was called the Baptist: for Herod slew him, who was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety towards God, and so to come to baptism; for that the washing [with water] would be acceptable to him, if they made use of it, not in order to the putting away [or the remission] of some sins [only], but for the purification of the body; supposing still that the soul was thoroughly purified beforehand by righteousness. Now when [many] others came in crowds about him, for they were very greatly moved [or pleased] by hearing his words, Herod, who feared lest the great influence John had over the people might put it into his power and inclination to raise a rebellion, (for they seemed ready to do any thing he should advise,) thought it best, by putting him to death, to prevent any mischief he might cause, and not bring himself into difficulties, by sparing a man who might make him repent of it when it would be too late. Accordingly he was sent a prisoner, out of Herod's suspicious temper, to Macherus, the castle I before mentioned, and was there put to death. Now the Jews had an opinion that the destruction of this army was sent as a punishment upon Herod, and a mark of God's displeasure to him."
~ Flavius Josephus, Jewish Antiquities 18. 5. 2. (Translation by William Whiston).
"ca.324 CE
Eusebius quotes a reference in Josephus to Jesus that survives today in all manuscripts:
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
Eusebius in fact cites this passage three times - in three of his works - to assert a reputable Jewish support for the good character of Jesus:
Demonstratio Evangelica
History of the Church
Theophany
"
My now ex disappeared my copy of Antiquities of the Jews. Still mad.😤
Without him we would be almost in the dark concerning the critical 1st Century in Palestine.
I had a feeling the garden tomb wasn't the real tomb and now I know it clearly isn't.
While I cannot say the with certainty Garden Tomb is the actual tomb where Jesus was laid, the debunking described in this video woefully falls short of ruling it out completely. In fact, I would argue it doesn't even dent the locations authenticity. When you consider that whole of the evidence the garden tomb is the far superior location in terms of aligning with scripture. If you get the chance to visit you will see that for yourself.
@@krcthatsme9144 The gospels explicitly say it was a NEW tomb. The archeology shows that the garden tomb is much older then the first century so clearly it's not the tomb described in the gospels.
I just want to say I've been in those burial niches! When I visited Jerusalem, our tour guide made a point of taking us there and took us to it to show what a burial niche was really like.
want to say, at the end of every episode you have some sort of lesson to learn that is often about respect for the group. It never fails, and you continue to provide education without bias.
Well...I sense a little bias. Ehrman is not necessarily the most reliable authority on the Jesus story. I tend to find myself more respectful of several historians that honor the "mythicist" potential for a theory. Ehrman has publicly denounced that theory, but the theory seems credible, at least in the perspectives of many honest historian minded novices. It appears to Robert Price, as most likely the explanation of the origin of the Christian religion. I go with Price.
I went there once pre-covid but since during COVID no pilgrims could come, I decided to go during, and it was amazing to walk around there with hardly anyone else there. Sadly, since I'm not Christian, I didn't really know what I was looking at, but it was really cool
It’s very fascinating that the holy sepulcher is actually a plausible location for the tomb. I had always assumed it was pure tradition.
It’s not only plausible. It’s the only plausible location, supported both by archeological research and tradition.
@@nikostheaterthat assumptions denies Christ's resurrection and ascension.
@@rafaelacosta5724 how it denies the resurrection?
You'd be surprised by just how many tombs are plausible,
The question of whether or not there ever was a tomb in the first place isn't even answered.
@@rickojay7536 of course there was a tomb: the whole idea of Christianity is hinged on a tomb existing in the first place.
The point of contention wasn’t if the tomb (or Jesus himself) existed, but about the resurrection as an event.
Amazing topic for an amazing video. I'm glad CZcams has great channels on it such as yours, thank you for this video ReligionforBreakfast.
I never get tired of learning something from you, I really appreciate the hard work
I was literally just thinking about this earlier today and wondered if you made a video about it. Thank you
It is important to emphasize that the site where this church was built, was originally the site of the Temple of Venus, the patron Goddess of the Tenth Legion that was garrisoned in the city. It was the second most important temple in Aelia Capitolina/Roman Jerusalem, the most important of course being the temple of Jupiter Capitolinus built on top of where the second jewish temple once stood (where the Dome of the Rock now stands)
Something I would be curious to figure out is this: Could that have originally been a temple to Astarte? Its believed that the cult of Aphrodite (and later Venus when the romans syncronized the two goddesses) started with Astarte's cult coming to greece. And prior to that, Astarte was probably the mesopatmian goddess Ishtar (Innana). So my question is, was this sight always a sacred to site to the same goddess just having the name of the time added onto it (going from Astarte, to Aphrodite to Venus)?
@@dylantennant6594 It was newly built shortly after 135 AD, by a Roman emperor for a Roman/Hellenistic city (that was the whole point about re-founding the city as Aelia Capitolina). And as the video said, the area was a quarry outside the walls without any religious significance some decades before that time. Also, as far as we can tell, Astarte hadn't been venerated in the region for a few centuries at that point.
Yes - in choosing this site, the Christians very conveniently destroyed the competition. Hmm...
And inside the Dome of the Rock is the rock itself which sort of looks like the top of a skull. Mark records that the curtain of the temple was ripped in half when Jesus died and implies that the Centurion saw it. Was the guy hanged on the Temple mount?
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Very interesting as always, thank you.
Really fascinating video!! loved the camera footage you were able to capture.
So that is why there is this tradition/parade here in the Philippines we call "Santacruzan", to commemorate Helena and Constantine for finding the tomb.
Brilliant! I'm always most pleased when I see a new video from RfB. Its wonderful to see how many people are becoming interested in the philosophy and history behind the worlds religions. Always happy to see one about JC of the NT
The biggest mystery on this video was why was Andrew was wearing un undershirt on some scenes but none on other scenes.
Rofl
The moment I realized this i laughed out loud😂
Thanks! Your videos are always so interesting and fascinating!
appreciate your exegesis, focused yet concise, fine voice work with names and terms, too
6:38 What? a wiki page likely isn't true? Who would have thought...
I've been wondering about this for a while so this is gonna be exciting
Amazing video. Glad I found your channel!
Amazing video as always!
Good video, thanks!
When in Palestine in 2019, I had the opportunity to do some of the typical tourist sightseeing. Let me just say about the "garden tomb" that it really felt like a constructed "Disney land" site. It gave my entire group - who were all Protestant Christians btw - weird vibes. Like they were trying too hard or something.
Logically speaking the land of Jerusalem was under Muslim control for centuries and the existence of a Jesus's tomb would make Islam false since Muslims believe he wasn't killed but risen to heaven like Enoch .
So if such site existed they would have destroyed it without letting any evidence.
Lol this makes me wonder if holy sites have Yelp reviews
@@LimeyLassen "the lamb of god literally died here, and not a single good shawarma joint in sight. I should have gone to the 5 guys at mecca instead. 3-stars".
-john h. Smith
the five guys thing at Mecca isn't a joke by the way. I find that funny for some reason.
@@LimeyLassen I'm just saying lol. It's not worth the visit. It's not historical in any way - it's a modern creation and you can tell.
The only reason the Garden Tomb complex has for existing today, is to give people a feeling of "what it might have looked back then," as admittedly, the Garden Tomb feels more 1st century than the Holy Sepulchre Church. I found it a rather lovely spot for a few moments of prayer and meditation, but I do agree that it has avery tourist-y feel.
I never knew a lot of this. Thank you!!
I sure enjoy learning from you.
About the Garden Tomb dating back to the Iron Age, I can't help wondering: is it possible that the people of Jerusalem reused ancient burial grounds throughout the millenia? After all, it's quicker and cheaper to use an already existing tomb than to dig a new one...
Tombs were constantly being reused. However, Jesus being buried in a recycled tomb would be inconsistent with the biblical account that he was buried in a new tomb (see Matt 27 for example.)
The gospels explicitly say that the tomb Jesus was buried in was new and hadn't been used yet. So if you believe the gospels it can't be the tomb of Jesus.
@@billcook4768It’s just as likely that he was buried in a trench along with dozens of other criminals as it is he was buried in a brand new private tomb. I don’t think we should put much faith in the description of his tomb as “new” since that was written hundreds of years after the fact and could very easily be an embellishment based on nothing. I’m still struggling to understand how the fact that the Garden Tomb is from the iron age rules it out. If he was going to be thrown in a mass grave for criminals, wouldn’t an abandoned iron age tomb be preferable? Is it not possible that his followers retrieved his body and placed it in this ancient tomb? Surely it being from the iron age is not the only evidence that rules it out.
@@paulclement4961 I suspect that the Romans having apparently treated Jesus brutally the night before and in his status as an enemy of the Roman state, would have been unlikely to have treated his corpse with any respect. As such they likely disposed of it in a pit or ditch grave, and I doubt the apostles in hiding were aware of where that would've been.
My opinion is that the empty tomb (and Joseph of Arimathea), is a later invention, created in order to have a physical resurrection that would be convincing to Gentile pagan converts, who would recognize the disappearance of the body as a sign of having been deified. It also addressed what happened to Jesus's corpse and avoided his rising from an unclean place. Later gospels embellished greatly on this story.
@@billcook4768 that is if you consider the Bible to be authoritative in the first place
It is a lovely tradition that you have by this posting reminded me to follow earnestly this year, as once I did unbidden. I just now reread Petronius, Satyricon 111-112 and am thoroughly restored by so doing. Thank you.
ok🤷
I literally did not know it could snow in Jerusalem. My evangelical upbringing made me assume it was always a desert. My mind should not be blown by this, but it is. I feel very dumb, lol.
I mean deserts can have snow
No I think of Israel I think a desert as well and I'm always shocked every time I see the trees in pictures 😂
Very good job quite informative!!!
At most, one could argue that Jesus may not have been removed from the cross and/or buried. However, there's no evidence that he was not, and I suspect any traditional Roman practice could be changed if the right person was paid.
I think the location, as you said, is plausible. In some respects, it may be best to say that the Church of the Holy Sepulcher is a reasonable place for people to venerate Jesus. If it is not the real location, it is a good example of a place where Jesus might have been entombed.
IMO, that’s the description that should be used for most ancient sites. It could have happened here; if it didn’t it at least looks about right so it’s a good spot to commemorate. Instead, people feel the need to declare someplace to be exactly exactly where something happened.
The Gospels mentioned why the bodies were removed: it was the Jewish Pascha and it was considered ritualistically unclean to have bodies of people exposed before sundown. Pilate did NOT want problems from the religious leaders or the faithful, especially at that period, so they broke the legs of the crucified people to force their deaths but Jesus was already dead. Thus the apokathelosis, funeral rites and burial.
Also per the Bible, the Romans didn't have that much of a beef with Jesus (“I find no basis for a charge against him.”), it was the jewish leaders that wanted him dead, so it's reasonable to assume that Pilate would grant the request
I don't know how captioning/subtitles work for the creator, and I can understand if it takes too much work for you to add them yourself, but why is the automatic feature switched off? I'm not totally deaf, but without subtitles this video is just not accessible for me. You might as well have put it behind a paywall.
Edit: Thank You.
Thanks much for this video.
Great job!
Great video! Huge fan of the channel, it's become one of my favorites. Would love to see a video about dualist religions like Gnosticism, Zoroastrianism and Manichaeism. Honestly, each of these religions deserve their own videos! But I feel like it would be a great look into an often overlooked part of religious history.
Let's talk religion has videos on all those religions iirc (and religion for breakfast does I think?)
Salam, Shalom, Peace.
In The Year 325 AD Roman Constantine [Treaty Of Nicaea], Emulated Greek And Roman Mythological Polytheistic Religions.
The Greek Zeus Son Of God, Became Jesus Son Of God.
The Roman Triad Of Juno, Jupiter And Minerva, Became The Trinity Father, Son And Holy Ghost.
The Rabbi's Say That In Torah It Mentions Moses, But Moses Was Their Bringing The Torah, Thus It Is The Prophet Muhammad.
Songs Of Solomon, The Word Muhammadim, The Rabbi's State This Means His Lover.
But King & Prophet [Missing In Torah/Gospel] Cannot Have Unwed Relations.
Thus The Translation Error Of His Lover = Praiseworthy = Muhammad = im = Respect.
Also Both Torah/Gospel State That Abraham The Friend Of God, Was Unwed To Hagar The Egyptian Handmaid.
Once Again The Friend Of God, Cannot Have Unwed Relations.
The Vedas [Monotheistic] Bans In Many Verses All Forms Of Polytheism, But Modern Hindu's Follow The Guru Books, Into Polytheism, With Their Pandits Banning Them From Reading Vedas.
In Many Verses Of Vedas It Mentions The Coming Of Prophet Muhammad.
The Avesta [Zoroastrian Bible] Also Mentions Prophet Muhammad.
Ancient Jews & Christians [Sabaeans Monotheistic Sect] Used To Perform The Hajj At Becca [Now Mecca].
Even Moses Performed The Pilgrimage To Becca [Mecca].
The Polytheists Kingdoms Envied Becca [Mecca] So They Built Replica Kaaba's.
Eventually Over Time, They Captured Becca [Mecca] And Placed 360 Idols Into The Kaaba.
The Polytheists Bared The Jews, Whilst Allowing The Sabaeans [Christian Monotheistic Sect].
The Jews Exiled From Pilgrimage, Make A Replica Kaaba Made From Leather, Religious Scripture Within, With Leather Straps Going Round The Arms Seven Times, Replicating The Seven Circumambulation Of The Kaaba.
Even Birds Circumambulate, The Planets, Stars All Glorify God, For Their Existence.
The Kaaba Was Originally Built By Adam And His Family, But Over Time The Kaaba Has Been Destroyed And Rebuilt.
Excellent video! Thanks for your hard work.
Would love to see a similar video about the skull of John the Baptist!
Would you settle for information coming from the soul that WAS John the Baptist? The Garden Tomb IS the authentic tomb. And that IS Golgotha nearby. Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and now the TRUE "Gospel" ("GOOD NEWS") is also ready for discovery by those with ears to hear, after having been buried under the sands of time for 2000 years. (I correspond only through my sites.)
@@tomrhodes1629 I love all the crazy people Andrew draws with his vids. The comment section is like a zoo 👀
What’s the story of the skull of John the Baptist? Is there a temple somewhere that claims to have it?
@@tomrhodes1629 Don't mean to disrespect you, but the discussion here is about the historical merit of religion, not about one's personal beliefs, so personally I wouldn't not settle. I never would.
Hey R4B, huge fun. Was wondering if you could make a video about the Buddhist beliefs about "chakra(s)". Much like other ideas and practices that have been kind of co-opted by new age movements, the chakras seem to not have any purely academic videos about them on youtube.
Thanks for everything you do
Wild, me and my wife were just talking about this yesterday.
Nj
Surely people would have know that the old walls of Jerusalem were located elsewhere other than the current walls. It would not seem to me a stretch of the mind to allow the Romans in Constantine’s day to deduce that a location outside of the city walls in Jesus’s day may now be inside, provided they knew crucifixions were carried out outside of walls. This does not rely on actual knowledge of the location of the tomb. After all, the Romans had no trouble remembering the location of the old walls of Rome-the pomerium-even though it had been demolished centuries ago, and if the Romans didn’t know they rebuilt the walls of the city, then how could we?
6:45 I appreciate calling wikipedia out. Most of the religion pages are maintained by the same very small group of editors (just as most topics on wikipedia are similarly the opinions of a very small and exclusionary group).
Another well researched video. Keep it up Dr Henry!
Very appreciated!
Regarding the idea of being properly buried at all, I would say that part is extremely plausible. The narrative we have says that Jesus was NOT actually an enemy of the Roman state - the Gospel accounts *emphatically* state that Pontius Pilate only *reluctantly* approved the execution to appease the crowd, after publicly declaring that he found Jesus to have done nothing wrong. If that’s the story we’re going with, and Pontius Pilate would also be the one with the authority to release the body, it stands to reason that he would have been very open to granting that request - far more so than for other actual criminals cited as also being sometimes granted that courtesy.
Very good video. Could you do one on the origin of Exodus and the Passover?
I'd love to see that too
This video is impressive. Thank you.
While I was a Catholic I was told the version of Helena being the one who found the tomb so I had no idea about the Macarius story, I remember reading that she's supposed to be the patron saint of archaeologists maybe because of that story.
I have to admit, as someone who was raised Protestant, the Garden Tomb does align way more closely with the image of Jesus' tomb I always had in my head when I was a kid, even though it's most likely not the real tomb.
that’s cool
I will convert you to catholic
It's obvious why they want to propose NEW location. Don't be fooled.
It’s interesting that you say that because one of the more interesting ideas I’ve heard regarding this debate is that the Protestant preference for the Garden Tomb is based heavily on aesthetic considerations. Many Protestants (and, specifically, American Protestants) find the Church of the Holy Sepulchre to be “too Catholic” - too many candles, too many ornate architectural details, too many decorations, etc. The Garden Tomb, by contrast, has clean lines, unadorned architecture and a more naturalistic setting, which “feels” more like a Protestant’s idea of what the tomb of Christ would be like. It looks and feels more like the simpler churches back home where those Protestants have spent their lives worshiping. It’s interesting that your experiences add weight to that idea.
If I ever make my dream trip to Israel I really want to see both. I never much thought the proof was there for either one of them but both seem to evoke some beautiful aspects of worship. The Garden Tomb is probably I'll ever get to the idea of what it was like. The church is an act of worship through art and devotion.
Excellent video. I stumbled upon your channel by chance but now I’m a subscriber. Great job!
As usual, a very good job! Informative and entertaining. And I love that shirt of yours
Grace! Lovely insights... 👏👍🙌
Most impressive! A one-two punch for Easter week, with the Holy Sepulchre hot on the heels of Eostre 🌷🌷🌷
I’ve been to both of these places last November. Going back to Israel again later this year! Going to see other places I missed out on last time.
Luck
Thank you.
Damn The Councidences Are Amazing I am fining this today when it is celebrated as the day of finding the true cross by saint helena in ethiopia, am ethiopian too
Another factual and well researched video. I have my personal opinions, but I am not a scholar of religion and thus anything that I state is based on my subjective opinion. Andrew, I appreciate the research you put into this subject to help me understand it better. Your presentations are always illuminating,
Hi, Andrew! Thank you for the great content on this channel!
I wanted to ask, are there any reliable documentation in Egyptian archaeology on prophets whose stories in Egypt are mentioned in holy books (e.g Moses, Joseph, etc). I was wondering if we could compare stories on both sides. Also, if there are no such documentation, what could that mean?
Thank you!
I haven't seen any actual archeological evidence of the Israelites in Egypt let alone people like Moses or Joseph. Those stories are aeteological
@@Hav3nMaina , Egyptian priests edited history their country.
There are no known ancient Egyptian records corroborating the Biblical accounts of Joseph, Moses or the Israelites. What could that mean? Well, one, we are yet to discover them; two, all evidence has been lost in time; or three, Biblical accounts have no basis in history. I personally feel we have yet to discover historical evidence corroborating Biblical accounts associated with ancient Egypt.
@@sandris5997 How wonderfully convenient for you that even the absence of evidence confirms your claims, eh?
@@sandris5997 That's not true because if they were hiding their embarrassing losses they would hide their loss to the sea people
Fantastic content.
Jesus' tomb is in Shingo, Japan. Look it up. Their tradition is that Jesus escaped the cross, his brother taking his place, and he immigrated to Japan where he lived and taught _and wrote_ ! and died peacefully at the age of 101. They have a celebration for him every year. Israeli delegation even visited and left a marker.
♫ Our tomb, in the middle of our street ♪
Definitely interested in an academic's take on the one proposed tomb location under an apartment complex in Jerusalem. Watched a documentary proposing that location but have no educational background by which to judge its plausibility
Andrew, how about a piece detailing the Talpiot Tomb?
Great vid, thanks
Really loved the video. I got to visit Israel and both of these sites this past December. It was an awesome experience. I agree with your conclusion that it is impossible to say about the Holy Sepulcher is completely authentic. I also acknowledge the evidence you present about the Garden Tomb being an unlikely place for the burial. When it comes to ancient sites and especially religious ones exact locations may never be known. One question I did have though is that when we visited the Garden Tomb there was a Christian graffiti mark on the back wall. If I recall correctly the garden tomb guide said that it was Crusader Era Christian graffiti. Now obviously that period of time is well removed from Jesus so I am sure they would have been wrong considering all the things you mentioned.
TLDR: My question is, did some Christians think the Garden Tomb was authentic before the excavations in the 1800s?
According to what the Garden Tomb Association has written on Facebook, the graffiti in the Garden Tomb itself is a modern reconstruction of an actual graffiti, underneath a layer plaster, dating probably to the 5th century. At that time, the area belonged to St. Stephen's monastery (and even today, St. Stephen's Basilica is right next door). So tomb was certainly known prior to the 1800's.
Shortly after the Reformation, Protestant scholars cast doubt on the traditional site (the Holy Sepulchre Church), as they questioned all Catholic traditions which they did not find in Scripture. But the Garden Tomb area itself was not seriously considered as a contender until the middle of the 1800's.
Yeah when I went to Japan when I was in the military there is a Tomb of Jesus in Japan, anime jebus.
in some movies, korean jesus
IIRC there are two. The famous one is in the north in Aomori.
Religion for breakfast t should cover this then.
He was the protagonist after all...
Well I suppose if Jesus visited the Americas we can't rule Japan out 😜
6:39 Not anymore it seems! The latest version as of March 2024 says:
“a rotunda called the Anastasis ('Resurrection'), where Macarius believed Jesus to have been buried,[2][better source needed] and;”
So that’s neat!
Have you heard of Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett?
I'd be very curious to hear your opinion on their books.
I so often wonder what a traditional temple to say, Aphrodite (in this case) would look like complete. And how much it would cost to build one today
the evidence points to the holy sepulcher as the tomb of christ.just as the tomb of Peter was venerated and a trophy was put on top, so did the christians venerate Golgotha before the refounding of Jerusalem in 150. the third wall did not enclose the garden tomb and quarry until Agrippa I started enclosing it in a wall in 41-44AD
My grandfather's neighbour always said that chocolate tastes good if you like it.
good video thanks
As a religious studies major I greatly value your work!
Salam, Shalom, Peace.
In The Year 325 AD Roman Constantine [Treaty Of Nicaea], Emulated Greek And Roman Mythological Polytheistic Religions.
The Greek Zeus Son Of God, Became Jesus Son Of God.
The Roman Triad Of Juno, Jupiter And Minerva, Became The Trinity Father, Son And Holy Ghost.
The Rabbi's Say That In Torah It Mentions Moses, But Moses Was Their Bringing The Torah, Thus It Is The Prophet Muhammad.
Songs Of Solomon, The Word Muhammadim, The Rabbi's State This Means His Lover.
But King & Prophet [Missing In Torah/Gospel] Cannot Have Unwed Relations.
Thus The Translation Error Of His Lover = Praiseworthy = Muhammad = im = Respect.
Also Both Torah/Gospel State That Abraham The Friend Of God, Was Unwed To Hagar The Egyptian Handmaid.
Once Again The Friend Of God, Cannot Have Unwed Relations.
The Vedas [Monotheistic] Bans In Many Verses All Forms Of Polytheism, But Modern Hindu's Follow The Guru Books, Into Polytheism, With Their Pandits Banning Them From Reading Vedas.
In Many Verses Of Vedas It Mentions The Coming Of Prophet Muhammad.
The Avesta [Zoroastrian Bible] Also Mentions Prophet Muhammad.
Ancient Jews & Christians [Sabaeans Monotheistic Sect] Used To Perform The Hajj At Becca [Now Mecca].
Even Moses Performed The Pilgrimage To Becca [Mecca].
The Polytheists Kingdoms Envied Becca [Mecca] So They Built Replica Kaaba's.
Eventually Over Time, They Captured Becca [Mecca] And Placed 360 Idols Into The Kaaba.
The Polytheists Bared The Jews, Whilst Allowing The Sabaeans [Christian Monotheistic Sect].
The Jews Exiled From Pilgrimage, Make A Replica Kaaba Made From Leather, Religious Scripture Within, With Leather Straps Going Round The Arms Seven Times, Replicating The Seven Circumambulation Of The Kaaba.
Even Birds Circumambulate, The Planets, Stars All Glorify God, For Their Existence.
The Kaaba Was Originally Built By Adam And His Family, But Over Time The Kaaba Has Been Destroyed And Rebuilt.
I'll say this, if we credit the Gospel account of Joseph of Arimathea, it has always seemed to me very unlikely that a prominent man would set his family tomb in a hill where the romans conducted public executions. I just don't think the real tomb, wherever it was, was really in the same hill where the Crucifixion occurred. On the other hand, if the Joseph story isn't true, then his followers might have quickly placed him in a nearby tomb.
The gospels don't say it was his family's tomb, just that he owned it and that it was new. I think he realistically just bought it or commissioned its creation specifically for Jesus. Plus, according to Jewish law, Jesus was supposed to be buried before sundown, so the tomb would have to be close to Golgatha either way
@@benbittinger9789 So, he commissioned the building of a tomb the very day it was going to be needed? It's not like he would have known ahead of time, much less that far ahead, what was going to happen. Also, Jesus was dead by about 3:00 (the ninth hour), so they had several hours to get him buried, and being close by is not the same as being in the same hill. Everything was close by really, old Jerusalem was more what we would call a small town than a big city. I don't think it was more than a couple of miles across.
@@odysseusrex5908 not commissioned the building, but bought it maybe. Those rocks were pre-made as tombs, it was basically a graveyard in waiting. Part of the reason the crucifixion happened there was because a) it was just outside the city, on a small hill, visible to people entering or leaving the city from that area and b) it had already a tomb complex there literally few meters away.
not religious myself but it is neat learning about history
i appreciate you not being the kind to preach to your audience every chance you get
I totally learned about Gordon’s Calvary when I went to a private Christian school as a kid! The textbook we had said that was the definite real place of Golgotha. Who was I to question it? Thank you for dispelling that misinformation!
Salam, Shalom, Peace.
In The Year 325 AD Roman Constantine [Treaty Of Nicaea], Emulated Greek And Roman Mythological Polytheistic Religions.
The Greek Zeus Son Of God, Became Jesus Son Of God.
The Roman Triad Of Juno, Jupiter And Minerva, Became The Trinity Father, Son And Holy Ghost.
The Rabbi's Say That In Torah It Mentions Moses, But Moses Was Their Bringing The Torah, Thus It Is The Prophet Muhammad.
Songs Of Solomon, The Word Muhammadim, The Rabbi's State This Means His Lover.
But King & Prophet [Missing In Torah/Gospel] Cannot Have Unwed Relations.
Thus The Translation Error Of His Lover = Praiseworthy = Muhammad = im = Respect.
Also Both Torah/Gospel State That Abraham The Friend Of God, Was Unwed To Hagar The Egyptian Handmaid.
Once Again The Friend Of God, Cannot Have Unwed Relations.
The Vedas [Monotheistic] Bans In Many Verses All Forms Of Polytheism, But Modern Hindu's Follow The Guru Books, Into Polytheism, With Their Pandits Banning Them From Reading Vedas.
In Many Verses Of Vedas It Mentions The Coming Of Prophet Muhammad.
The Avesta [Zoroastrian Bible] Also Mentions Prophet Muhammad.
Ancient Jews & Christians [Sabaeans Monotheistic Sect] Used To Perform The Hajj At Becca [Now Mecca].
Even Moses Performed The Pilgrimage To Becca [Mecca].
The Polytheists Kingdoms Envied Becca [Mecca] So They Built Replica Kaaba's.
Eventually Over Time, They Captured Becca [Mecca] And Placed 360 Idols Into The Kaaba.
The Polytheists Bared The Jews, Whilst Allowing The Sabaeans [Christian Monotheistic Sect].
The Jews Exiled From Pilgrimage, Make A Replica Kaaba Made From Leather, Religious Scripture Within, With Leather Straps Going Round The Arms Seven Times, Replicating The Seven Circumambulation Of The Kaaba.
Even Birds Circumambulate, The Planets, Stars All Glorify God, For Their Existence.
The Kaaba Was Originally Built By Adam And His Family, But Over Time The Kaaba Has Been Destroyed And Rebuilt.
I bet it's one of the tombs/shelves demolished by digging up the sepulcher.
It would be about right if it was actually a few feet to the right or left and destroyed in the mad rush to find the tomb that they just "knew" was the right one.
Really wish they could have just dug up the tomb complex, said it was somewhere in there, not at all sure, and called it a day. But nope, holy site tourisim beats accurate sacred sites all day every day I guess.
It’s weird how despite this, as someone who grew up Catholic in America, every depiction of it was just Jesus in an actual cave with a big boulder rolled in front
Christian artwork has not traditionally involved a lot of effort to historically research the subject matters. They are artists, not archeologists, or historians. And details about how period Hebrew tombs were built is not exactly common knowledge.
For example consider the most famous paintings of Jesus, and the ethnicities he is portrayed as.
A boulder next to, or in front of a cave, is what might result from an artist relying on the bible, and his imagination only. And the bible is not chock full of details on the tomb's appearance.
Excellent. My view is that , whether the Church of Holy Sepulchre is or isn’t the burial site Jesus Christ, it has become recognised as such, i must admit I hadn’t appreciated that Jerusalem was originally sited a little to the north east, so was confused as to how the crucifixion and burial site was within the city. .
well done!
It’s BC and AD. Not BCE and CE.
Both are valid
The local tradition that inspired Macarius may have been motivated by the association of both Aphrodite and Jesus with love.
Sounds plausible. I was thinking of “let’s get rid of the pagan temple while we’re at it” but perhaps I’m thinking too much in a political sense rather than a religious one lol
That is a bit of stretch. Yes, Aphrodite and Jesus both have associations with love, but they are vastly diferent kinds of love. Aphrodite, depending on the intereptation was mainly the goddess of romantic love and sexuality, something Jesus was not particular adminent on. As well Aphrodite was more then a goddess of love. Her dominons including so much else, including the seas, life in the summer, motherhood, the stars, and at one point, warfare (both as Aphrodite Areia and as Venus Genetrix). Comparing Jesus to greek gods is kind of impossible as his moral standards and theology was so different then Greco-Roman ideas and it would disingenius to try and combine the two.
I would love to see a video about the other end of the Via Dolorosa, Pilate's praerorium, because the traditional location of the Antonia Fortress is almost certainly wrong and that it's more likely the trial of Jesus happened somewhere at the palace complex located on the western hill.
I wonder whether Golgotha/Calvary/skull place might refer to a pre-existing burial ground - which would fit with the proximity of the traditional crucifixion and tomb sites.