Tactics Explained | Three At The Back
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- čas přidán 16. 08. 2017
- Playing three defenders has become something of a fashion in the Premier League, following Antonio Conte’s successful change to the system at Chelsea last season. Arsene Wenger, who had previously eschewed anything other than a four-man defence, used the system towards the end of last season and even Jose Mourinho, almost dogmatic in his aversion to three at the back, has used it in pre-season with Manchester United.
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Just watched this and I'm a tactical genius
😂😂😂 I’m just catching up
I've been so in love with Cruyff's system and pep's that I feel the same way
Alex Pavers you have a very big ego you couldn't even out tactician your school lunch lady
@@Daniel-wv1ez uhh, they're joking mate.
wait, is this also a joke or
Woah! No mention of Juventus!? Who made the 3 man defence fashionable again!!
I think they briefly mentioned it on their video on Conte's 16/17 Chelsea season. But only briefly.
Fashionable is a big word... If Muntari's goal was allowed, you probably would have never heard of Conte's Juventus
@Ddhfacetyy wtf did you not understand about my comment?
I am not questioning about how popular Juve is.
I am questioning the Juve that Conte built: if they didn't win the league against Milan thanks to an absurd refereeing, we would now be talking about Allegri's Milan, rather than Conte's Juve. And 3-men defense would not have been so popular in Italy.
Kid, learn how to read, before commenting bullshit. and if possible learn something about Serie A
Walter Mazzari and Napoli
Wasnt Juve the team who initially brought the system back to football in terms of big teams? Around 2011-12. BBC of Barzagli-Bonucci-Chiellini.
Bbc 😂😂 but balotelli against them was a bbbc
Conte
MS I know it’s a bit late but who took over Juve in 2011-12 when they went unbeaten...?
it was Mazzarri's Napoli that brought 3 man back line to fashion before Conte's Juve
This was my favourite defence of all time. So much experience and they knew each other’s game inside out. Such a strong unit for the national team as well.
Chelsea used 343 because of David Luiz, the rest of the league use it for the sake of using it.
But it decisively increased Arsenal's effectiveness immediately when they started using it that season. I think it's just a great system and try to use some variation of 343 in FIFA if I have the personnel. It might be called 5221 or whatever but usually one variation or another will work fine. Custom formations designating roles are very nice for getting exactly what I want.
This comment didn't age well
this comment really didn't age well
@@caelgoodburne9653 why? if u can explain I would appreciate that
@@Dasaboi arsenal used it again this season and we didn't win a game for nearly 2 months
Managers are thinking: 'Conte dominated with three at the back so we should do it also to try and keep up'.
Should they not instead be thinking: 'Conte dominated with three at the back, what is the best way to play against three at the back so we can surpass them'
Chris Norman two strikers will kill a back three any day
A back three works against two strikers the best; two defenders can always match up with the two strikers and there is a spare guy to sweep up wherever he is needed.
In my experience a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 works best against three at the back. It is most vulnerable against wingers receiving passes behind the defense in the halfspaces.
andrew7taylor absolutely, I’ve always believed that to beat a back 3, a good way is to create an overload on the wings. Having a 4-3-3 with overlapping fullbacks so you have a minimum of a 2v1 against their wingback is a good way to get around this solid formation
prince diamond clueless, 3 at the back kills 2 strikers. That is why it’s so effective, andrew7taylor explained perfectly
Chris Norman I think 4-4-2 holding where it can turn into a 4-2-4 where the full backs push up the defenders spread out and the holding midfielder stays back where he can pick out players also the where that turns into a 3-4-3 ik it’s a bit stupid but it would counter a 5 at a back I think anyways.
Imo the wing backs are the most important positions to make the three back system work. They are in charge of controlling the flanks of the pitch, and they must help the forwards in offense and help the three backs defend. The wing backs require a lot of stamina and great crossing skills
i agree without fullbacks with good stamina it wouldn't work.
+ no mention of 352 which is used very often
Filip Kostić at Eintracht Frankfurt is a good example of how it's done properly, as Frankfurt started to use the 3-1-4-2 Formation under Adi Hütter. Definitely worth a look
Very true, we played with emerson against arsenal and because his rubbish and our weakest link it was very costly to us.
Yep with the right wing backs a 3 at the back can be the best counterattacking and the best possession formation. They either sit back and create a back 5, ready to explode down the flanks, like with Conte at Chelsea and Juve. Or it's amazing for possession-based sides for the same reasons as a 4-3-3, a regista at the base of defence, attacking fullbacks keeping the width, goalscoring/creative inverted wingers with an establishing striker, like Klopp's Liverpool or many german sides right now,
The thing about the 3-4-3 or the 3-5-2 is that not very many players can fit into the system. With 4 defenders you can have many different types of players fit into the system. No one has ever said "I don't like this player he doesn't fit into a 4-at-the-back system." With 3 at the back however, you absolutely need wing backs with high work rates, center backs with some pace, and idealy someone like Kante in the midfield making tackles to win the ball back. My point is, you need very athletic players to fit the system and not every team can do that and it can take time to adapt to get the players needed for the system. Either by spending a lot of money on new players or converting players into positions that fit the system.
Maybe next on how Chile won 2 trophies in a 2 years, stopping Messi in the process?
Easy : Argentina is shit , and Chile is not , the end
Charlie Snowball Argentina squander chances lose game.
Simple, Chile has a team, and Argentina has ball hogs
They stopped Messi by marking him with 4 players and fouling him as soon as possible , and They were able to do this successfully because No one supported Messi on the attack and sat back and watched .
Chile won in part of a very energetic and quick side that exploited the three at the back to success.
When I started playing senior football, I was a 15 yo libero. Those still remain my best years in football.. Never played again in a 3 men defense ever since, but I would recommend it to anyone
Great video als always. Next Bielsa 3-3-3-1/3-3-1-3 or how his teams press please! Thx.
Classic!
Alex Stewart Nice mate! Thx in advance, definitely best football channel on CZcams.
Please do a video on Guy Roux. He coached AJ Auxerre from 1961-2005!
Kool Aid Man actually 44
Armumfang: 22 Zoll Wow And the fans never got tired of him? Meanwhile Wenger has been at Arsenal for 25+ years and managed to split the fanbase in half
Abdul Mel He bought stability to the club and the club continued to do well under him even if players left unlike Wenger,the fans were sad when he decided to leave.
Abdul Mel he got the club from 3th division to a double in 1996 and got them to the ui cup final twice won 1997, lost in 2000. won the cup in 1994, 96, 03 and 05. final of the cup in 1979. probally top 3 coaches ever. just imagine 1961 they were amateur level nobodys.
Armumfang: 22 Zoll Yeah also he was the first to spot Cantona,Laurent Blanc and many other players who went to play for France and other big Clubs in Europe
I hadn't watched your videos in a while. I came back to the false nine video in order to suggest you make a 'wing back' edition of tactics explained. and here it is! uploaded in the last 11 days! made my day. great videos as always. thank you for making these.
That's why, no doubt this is the best CZcams channel on CZcams. All well explained and emphasised. Very interesting!
"That's the beauty of tactics" - love it
Love the vid. I would Like to mention that Italy made the 3 man back big in Europe again. Back in 2011, there were more than a handful of serie A teams playing a 3 man back ( Juve,Napoli etc...)
Small tip, when explaining formations, can you colour one teams dot in and the others hollow, great video
I think the three at the back gives you the most options... you can either play with wing back high up the field when the opposition defends deep or you can easily switch to five at the back and hold your ground. It's harder for the players though... center backs need to cover for wing backs, central midfielders have to cover everything, wing backs have to run like crazy, wingers have to defend etc. It's a hard system and only the best managers and the best teams are able to make it work. You can see how Pochettino worked towards his dream formation and style of play. First he bought Alderweireld (and found arguably the best CB in the world), Dier (young hard working enthusiastic player) and Alli (who apart from scoring and passing runs a lot and has impact on both ends of the pitch) then Wanyama (who could have easily been the best player in the EPL last season). Now he wants to strengthen the team even more with Sánchez from Ajax. Buying players who really fit the system is crucial and not many people understand this philosophy.
Amazing video, but only important concern is no mention of Juventus. Let's remember that with Juve, it was the first time in a while that a competitive team that won championships used 3 at the back. Before, it was mostly used by small teams to defend. Juve and Conte brought the 3 at the back to the success again.
3 at the back is very popular here in Italy. I noticed that 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 are very effective with a defensive mentality (like catenaccio). If you look back at Conte's Juventus 3-5-2, you won't see many epic games. It's an effective and secure system but it doesn't allow yo to control the game. Also, it's essential to have 2 very good side backs with good stamina and defensive skills as they have to deal with 2 opponents (winger and side back). I remember when Conte lost agains Bayern Munich which used 4-2-3-1. Lichtsteiner and Asamoah, the 2 Juventus sides player, who were very good at the time, just couldn't handle Ribery, Robben, Alaba and Lahm... so yeah, Conte's 3-5-2 led the ball to the sides of the pitch but then Licht and Asamoah were always overrun.
Great Video!
Any chance of a video on the 'big man up front'. Be interesting to see how effective this system actually is against different formations and styles of play.
One shouldn't forget about Rodgers using this system at 'pool for few months or so 3 years back. It changed the Liverpool side from being sloppy and inconsistent to somewhat solid which was probably the reason why he wasn't sacked right after the season.
you realise there are better sides that didn't even get mentioned?
3-5-2 was fashionable in the 90s, Liverpool and Aston Villa played it often, it's just no one had won the league playing it before. The best counter to any back three is extremely pacy and skillful wide players in a 4-4-2/4-3-3....the most famous example being Inter vs Celtic 1968.
67*
Kitomir yep, thinking of United.
343 u can have pacey and skilful wide players also it gives u strength at the back if u have dominant and ball playing CB and midfielders dat can defend and attack
liverpool still plays like 3-5-2
@@shaizylaroja8895 still? i think klopp plays 4 at back?
Really enjoy these videos. Currently playing a 3 man defense on FM17 with Malaga and I routinely find that the biggest threat is a 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 where the wide players play as traditional full backs and wingers. It constantly draws either one of the CM's across or, more dangerously, one of the CB's where runners from midfield into the space cause huge problems. Also 2v1 in wide areas making it tough to stop crosses from the byline. I think Man city did this very well against Chelsea at the Etihad last season and were extremely unlucky not to get something from it.
try to use a 5-3-2 with playmaker and a fast pace lineup ;)
I’m playing an ac Milan save on fm, 4 at the back we’d be getting mixed results winning big and losing a lot big, then I realised I’ve got 3 pretty good cbs and started playing 3 at the back with 2 wing backs and especially Rodriguez at left wing back, last season won ‘serie A player of the year’ so it’s worked absolutely amazingly. Took me ages and nearly got sacked to find the system that works amazing with vertical tika taka. Second season in sitting comfortably in top 4.
probably your best video yet honestly
Good video as usual, but you never went into any detail regarding Conte's origin of use of the system at Juventus. The system he used there was also slightly different in that it used 3 central midfielders. 3-5-2 had it's flaws also (obviously less effective when attacking owed to numbers) but it's able to help neutralize the wing threat a bit better owed to one of the three CMs having the freedom and cover to move out wide to support the wingback during the defensive phase.
In Belgium Hein Vanhaezebrouck's AA Gent played three at the back, giving the club it's first title and the season after unhoped succes in the championship by getting through the groupstage, after that their was a succesfull campaign in the Europa league but in the competition the team never gained the same succes because the managers figured out how to play against Gent's three at the back
I really like 3-4-3 but more in the way Cruyff and Guardiola used to play in Barça. 4 midfielders in a diamond, 2 open wings and a False 9.
PS Poch used it before Conte in the EPL in recent times. Check the games between Tottenham and Southampton.
Aeld-ur-Paran yes Conte just made it popular while and what Poch used was not really 343 more like a 3412
Conte plays a 3-4-2-1 if we want to go that specific route. Poch also plays a 3-4-2-1 not a 3-4-1-2. The video is on 3 at the back. Sam Allardyce used 3 at the back while he was at Bolton - 3-5-2 formation. My point is that 3 at the back is not a new formation to the PL!!
Aeld-ur-Paran well of course 3 at the back has been used in pl before. Chelsea only popularized it due to their successful run
Aeld-ur-Paran Rodgers used it with Liverpool a few years ago as well
Ayase Shinomiya thank you. I think that's the point everyone is missing. I mean my local neighbourhood coach also used 3 at the back but we can't get promoted. The reason they are talking about Conte is because if his impressive run as well as the fact that he made the top coaches also change their formation.
Perfect as usual, next Gourvennec's 4-1-4-1 with Bordeaux please !
great information as always
Good analysis.
I am subscribed now.
3-4-3 is probably my favorite formation for overall balance and symmetry
why left Juventus out??? Unbeatable season, record high for points season
only relevant in the premier league tbh
Rongion Pakendek Serie A is irrelevant tbh. That accomplishment would only be impressive if there was true competition in that (farmers) league.
@Anthony Salerno why didn't it age well? It's still a farmers league with no competition.
@@josecipriano3048 at 2012 when conte first won serie a with Juve, they are barely 4 points ahead of second place, winning only 23 times the rest (15games) are draw. That is definitely not a Farmers league. In 2014 when Juve recorded a season high points in serie a, the total goals scored in serie a are 1035(2.72 per game) while premier league scored 1052(2.77 per game). Kid, this is my advice to you, before you speak, research, get your fact straight. Think, using ur head. Then people will hear and respect you more
@Anthony Salerno Being competitive is different to being elite league. Serie A might be competitive but they all tier 2 teams aside from Juve lol...
My favorite formation, great video
I like these videos especially the tactical ones. I'd like to see one on how Fernando Santos went unbeaten through the 2016 Euro cup...
Can you make a Video about Leicester city between their rise to win the Primer League and the drop-down they had mid season in previous season
Great work 👍
serie A manager earlier 00 or late 90's already implemented three at the back, most notably manager to use this tactis are alberto malesani (parma) and alberto zaccheroni (AC Milan) , very offensive tactic used by Italian coach in Serie A which notably defensive league
this is the best line ups if the 3 defenders are solid, also one of the three up top must drop down a bit to help the CAM and create
You only explained it in the premiere league tho, try bielsa or la volpe's styles
We might have something on Bielsa out in the future - Phil
you guys always have the best music
that's a beauty of tactics :)
Do a video on what formations and tactics are best to counter the 343
Well, Mourinho kind of figured it out against Chelsea last season when united dominated chelsea and won 2-0 on old trafford.
ahahaha, yh by parking the bus
SuperPlays MC lol sure.hazard was taken on a bus ride by Herrera😂
And a handball
Andrew Moore and a win
Raphael J explain how he used anti football tactics he just out thought Chelsea and ander Herrera done one of the best man marking jobs I've ever seen on Eden hazard
This is exactly what happened vs spurs .
chelsea played 3-5-2 with luiz in mid to counter spurs 433, which as you said rather shifted to an attacking 343
A video on zidanes 4 - 1 -2- 1-2 he used in the pre season or a vid on the classic 433
you have earned a subscriber
Dope background music
genuinely...anyone know who/what it is?
BorrieBeats Axel Ljung Crates
Could you perhaps do a video on what roles paulinho could have on barcelona?
Top teams still use 4-3-3 and the most popular is 4-2-3-1
can you do Crystal Palace tactical defense ?
Guys you always credit the music in every video I've watched. But when you've got an instrumental playing that's straight fire, like in this video, you don't?
What's the song? Great video though.
Please do Barcelona's 343 diamond during Cruyff tenure as barca manager
bring back this tifo
You make the highest quality football content on CZcams but I'm afraid you've somewhat missed the trick with Tottenham's back 3 here.
You marginally covered the manner in which the Tottenham 4-2-3-1 can transition into a back 3 whilst defending. This is not however the back 3 that Tottenham deployed so effectively last season.
Dier starts as the right sided centreback in the back 3 rather than a midfielder who tracks back like Wanyama.
What makes the Tottenham back 3 unique is the manner through which it allows dynamism. With Vertonghen and Alderweireld both accomplished footballers going forward, a spare man at the back allows one of them to advance consistently. In certain circumstances you will Vertonghen running ahead in front of the midfield even. Alderweireld is given the space to boot down diagonals towards Alli, which gifted Spurs several goals last season.
It allows Eriksen and Alli to press inside, with the wingbacks occupying the wide berths. The two central midfielders are also given space to defend out wide if a wingback is caught on a counterattack too far forward.
All in all the most spectacular feature of the Spurs back 3 is the manner through which the players consistently move around the pitch, somewhat reminiscent of total football. With centrebacks being forwards, midfielders being full backs or defenders, wingers being full backs. The level of understanding needed to reach this systematic dynamism between the players is huge, otherwise it'd just be chaos. Next time you watch Tottenham play and they're not adopting their traditional 4231 due to injuries, watch where the players move off the ball and how the shape changes. It is quite something.
The system has been used at Sampdoria and Napoli by Mazzarri even before Conte (he used it at Siena, Ju*e and Italy) and not even one mention, nonetheless i understand, it's an English centered football world today, no-nonsense like ''Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's''.
gasperini was one of the first to revitalize te 3 man defense back in 2009 with genoa but had no luck implementing it with inter. The 3-man defense is not new, serie a was using way before premiere league.
That's what i was saying, sir. Mazzarri used it at Sampdoria back in '07-'08.
Juve you Inter/Torino fan
The Institution if we're going down that route then we may as well talk about teams that used it decades ago, including most of the best sides in the 90's. This is a topical video, so only natural that it would focus on it's most recent success.
Also it's an English speaking video, so naturally... well you get the idea.
Mars D. I've no idea if that's true, but I do know that many English clubs, and indeed the the England national team, used it throughout the 90's.
Now, 4 year after this video, a lot of clubs plays in this system: UCL champion, Serie A chmapion(and a lot of italian sides) and many sides in Euro2021. I Wonder how and when will the next shift in the "football meta" to break the 3 at the back.
Is there a playlist for "Tactics Explained" series?
Would have been nice if you mentioned Herrera's marking job on Hazard last season. Was that a tactical mastermind or just luck?
These videos make me feel smart
Love his narrating voice
Pep guardiola's Barcelona - tactics explained....
or Arsenal's Invincible Tactics explained....
or Galactico tactcics explained
or Clas of 92 tactics explained ...
any of these 4 would be fantastic
City played 4-3-3 in 2017/18 and was very successful for them ending the season with 100 points. "With the right personnel" as you say is key but against pace and with more in midfield a 4-3-3 can be overrun as City found out when they played Liverpool.
Back three was born during Inter Catenaccio when the manager Helenio Herrera transformed a back four into a back three with the right back (Burgnich) staying in defence together with the stopper and the sweeper (who would play in the centre), while the left back(Facchetti), became a left midfielder. Then the right winger (Jair) moves to midfield to help the defence while the left winger (Corso) becomes a second striker together with the striker, forming a 3412 with Mazzola playing as an attacking midfielder.
Please do another video on Back 3 with more detail and this time focus only on Modern football Back 3. for example back 3 Arsenal play and the one Chelsea play are slightly different; in terms of where ozil and Sanchez play behind the striker? can Also mention what is the perfect formation to combat it 4-4-2 perhaps?
Just incase you had 4 hours of your time to burn on another back 3 video, haha.
Modern 3 at back how is it different from the back used by Argentina from 86 -98 or Germany in 86 or England in 96 '98 nothing in the use of modern back 3 is new
Maybe Klopp should use this system next season? Van Dijk can easily play as the sweeper with his comfortable distribution skills. Clyne/Trent-Arnold RWB with Robertson/Moreno LWB. 2 CB's would need to be signed though
Forgetting the 3rd form of 3 at the back where the 2 wide CBs push forward past the wing backs to create overloads in the wide areas. See Chris Wilder's Sheffield United since the end of 2016
So refreshing watching these older tifo videos. No Athletic paying for the content.
Say what you want it's effectiveness but you forgot to mention the most frustrating thing about it: listening to a section of our fans calling for a back three when we only have 2 senior CBs.
Keep up the good work. (Wednesday fan).
Please do a video on the 4-4-2 and it's history. My body needs it.
in a nutshell: sacchi takes over milan in 87, makes his team play in a 4-4-2 with high pressing, zonal marking and offside traps, resulting in milan playing both most effective and most attractive football, they win everything including back to back european cups, and dominate against great sides such as 5 time reigning spanish champions real madrid with a 5-0 result or against steaua in final with 4-0
by the start of 90s many coaches started to copy sacchi's way of playing hence all the 4-4-2s
Top manager. Whats the best formation i think its 424
Great video.......but what's the instrumental!
The song is from epidemicsound, not sure what song the producer used! - Danny
joka4eva101 Axel Ljung- Crates Your welcome
Can you do a video on Valverde? He gets so much criticism but I think he does a good job balancing Barca's interests
I think Real Madrid's thumping of Juventus, a team that had conceded just 3 up to that point, with their fluid 4-1-2-1-2/4-3-3 has already shown the best way to counter it. Occupying the two central midfielders, leaving a man free in the hole and leaving the 3 defenders unsure whether to mark the strikers or press the number 10. Doubt it will be used much in the bpl though as most of the top players are attacking midfielders
Dude is a bright color to contrast the other teams formation. Use like a yellow baby blue, anything but black and dark red
Please do the bayern munich 2012/13 treble winning tactics
Pep guardiola annihilated it by setting up in a 4-3-3 formation and attacking in a 3-3-1-3 formation absolutely outplaying Conte and his team
You forgot Pep Guardiola's version of the three men defense, one ball-playing centerback flanked by two fullbacks skilled in possession. Say, Jerome Boateng flanked by Rafinha and David Alaba.
Soccer is really fun to play. I enjoyed watching it. :D
i stopped reading at soccer
This is your best voice, please use it again...!!
Does Episoketren System really work? I see many people keep on talking about Episoketren System. But Im not sure if it's good enough to increase your soccer technique.
This formation has always been useful for Juventus. With Ronaldo playing Hazard’s role and Dybala playing Pedro’s in attack, Sandro and Cancelo playing the flanks.
The best formation is 3 2 3 2 ever! Pep and Luis Enrique headed Barca amazingly by this formation!
As roma capello 2001 wins serieA with 352 formation
Conte uses 3 at the back with Juventus. Nobody cares...
Conte uses 3 at the back with Italy. Noone gives a shit....
Conte uses 3 at the back with Chelsea... WELL THEN EVERYBODY JUST LOSES THEIR MINDS!!!!!
Cahill, David Luiz, and Azpilicueta is a very strong back three. It gives Conte a chance to get creative up top.
agree, I cannot find a single 'Juventus' word in this video
this is exactly my sentiment. 3 years of really starting the resurgence of 3 at the back with Juventus is what Conte has revisited here.
Anas Mohsen it was a bit of a shock for Chelsea to win the league tho
Why though? They've been in the upper echelons of the premier league for decades now.
I remember when a year ago everybody was speculating if Conte would convert Chelsea to playing 3 at the back and that no manager had yet found a sustainable way to implement 3 man defence in the Premier League. And one year later half of the teams all around the Europe are playing 3-5-2 or 3-4-3. Sure you had your Rodgers and Van Gaals, even Pep Guardiola at Bayern opted for 3-5-1. Conte didn't invent the 3 man defence, but he 100% deserves credit for revulutionizing it.
one of the best channels for football !!
can i take part ? !!!
Amazing how David Luiz is TERRIBLE in a 4-man line, but when it's 3 the man is one of the best defensive playmakers in the world.
Interesting to see how people think and what they understand... and an excellent example of "if your test is making a fish climb a tree, it will live its whole life thinking it is stupid"
Every italian coach knows 3 at the back like back of their hand but it's really tough for other coaches to execute.
Can you do a Mexico 2014 World Cup formation
This brings back some memories. WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE CHAMPIONS OF EUROPE WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE.
No mention of Italian teams who pretty much pioneered this or of Pep who brought it to the fore of beautiful football in the last 10 years
1evanc when did Italian clubs pioneer this? Holland and West Germany popularised in the 70's, and even England (and English clubs) used it throughout the 90's. England played 3 at the back at the 1990 and 98 world cups, and also Euro 96. In fact, most teams played 3 at the back in the 90s.
Who is Eric Dier in thumbnail??
Please do a tactic tested on this!!!!!!!!
Conte’s 3-5-2 with Juventus please 🔥🔥
Take a look at this season's Sheffield United side, playing a 3 man defence, but with overlapping centre-backs, and wing-backs or central midfielders dropping in to support.
The EFL may not be a glamorous league, but the Blades sit top of it, with a 67% win ratio over their last two league seasons (40 from 60) and a 17-game unbeaten run to end 2016-17.
yo where can the music used in this vid
player like mattaeus, beckenbauer or fachetti are useful for this formation
What is thought to be the current best counter to 3-4-3?