I'm not a metal guy, in fact I don't even LIKE metal, but I find these videos incredibly informative and important when considering the reproduction of sound and the recording of it. They always leave me thinking. Keep up the great work!
Same, The only kind of metal I like are the ones heard on the Dynasty Warriors games! Now if anyone can steer me that metal tone, I would definitely be interested!
I love how before using the Grindstein the difference was already huge, but after putting the Grindstein (and the new mix) in the difference is just laughable. It is literally ridiculous hearing them side by side. The entire mix just falls apart, even though in the beginning the Behringer cab almost sounded acceptable-ish...
It sounded like the amp had an eq in the loop with everything dropped except the high mids. Like playing through a treble booster direct into interface! HM2 circuits also add a fuck ton of high mids and bass
Hot damn even off my phone speaker you can hear a clear difference. Usually hear the mixes on phone, headphones and then in the car while commuting. Original speakers made that rhythm sound hollow and muted, definitely hear it roar alive with the speaker upgrade! Excellent demo of how speakers can make a world of difference.
Those Neo Creambacks sound amazing. I always hear people say they replaced their speakers with v30s, but these blew me away. I’m thinking about a pair in my 2x12.
Changing speakers improve significantly the tone of the cabinet, yes. But i've always been reluctant to do that because, in my mind, the cab itself matters just as much as the speakers. I'd be curious to hear the same speakers in a mesa cab. Not just because of the wood, but mainly because of how the cab is built. I'd love to hear that comparison.
Honestly a great change is also just converting a cab to open back. I know some you can do it and some you have to put the inputs somewhere else. Honestly tho if you have the know how and don't wanna spend 1000$ on a cab. Make your own. That way you can get your best specs
cabinet inner volume is related to the driver's resonant low frequency. with guitars, thats around 78 hz. open backs have better resonance with a plywood baffle, while close backs can benefit from more rigid wood
After hearing Orange's lightweight 2x12 in person, I swapped one of the two v-types in my own cabinet out for a neo-creamback and got exactly what I was looking for. Who would have thought my ears were the best way to judge tone? lol. Great vid.
There's some sort of "tonewood" for guitar cabs in my experience: Plywood good, particle board bad. Also I once found some old weed in filthy used Hiwatt cabinet I bought a while back.
Wow! That's awesome. I'm blown away by those results. I was thinking about dropping big bucks on a cab shell recently, and seeing this makes me reconsider that idea.
The Jensen speakers remind me of an old Morgoth album. Didn't sound very good but the album's great anyway! Crazy difference you wound up getting, awesome vid and can't wait for a cab wood shootout
I have two old Line 6 412's that I bought cheap, re-tolexed, re-screened, and loaded them with UK V30's in one and UK Greenbacks in the other. Love em and they rock solid. Now here's an extra bonus fun fact, the UK Line6/Celestions that came with them, I re-coned them with V30 UK cones and they rock! The magnet on them are the same H Ceramics that are on the V-30's. So re-coned them into 30's are perfect.
I don't think there are standing waves if the soundboard is not parallel to the backboard, but a standing wave is not the only way to get a frequency buildup. Also, this cab is technically "full slant", since all 4 speakers are angled up; they're just tilted less than the top speakers of a "half slant" (marketing guys, take notes).
That final mix was killer! Drums could be heard with more clarity, and the solo lead cut through the mix much better. The sound was crisp and not dull like with the Jenson speakers. Great work, Glen! I guess it doesn’t hurt to take off the grill of the cab. I thought the sound would be harsh with a lot of highs, but turns out it’s actually for the better. Thanks Glen.
I found an old cab for free in a barn, it was a mess. I grinded the rust off and painted the cab corners. I had to redo the tolex as well since it was ripped and rotted with mold. I cleaned the inside and the Celestion Vintage 30 speakers. I also bought new casters since one was broken and the rest were in terrible rusty condition. After all the work the cab sounds fantastic!
Nice! I remember doing something similar about 20 years back with an abandoned Marshall 1960 cab that was left behind at a multi room rehearsal studio. I had it completely restored with 2x V30s and 2x Greenbacks. Ive regretted selling that cab to this very day.
@@bigmike2149 I sadly think that most of us have that one item that we regret getting rid of. On the bright side you now get to have the excitement of finding another cab that can be a staple in your studio!
On my Marshall stacks, I always put the mic on the angled cabinet. The cabinets came with Vintage 30’s. These cabinets are from the late nineties and maybe early 2,000’s at the very latest. I was finally able to get the sound I was hearing on recordings after my Sweetwater Salesdude sent me some of those Royer R-10 ribbon mics. I also added an Austrian Audio mic to my locker after listening to your demonstration, Glen.
"Overall this wound up being quite the 2db louder adventure." The cab sounds a lot better, for sure! I'm really impressed with it and with your mix. You don't need my validation but it's really killer. Good work! ...but also that extra 2db of level is brain cocain. Anyone will prefer that over the original even if it's identical. That said, I think I have a mid-90s Carvin 4x12 that needs some new speakers...
Just came back to this video because I scored on used Peavey 6505 4X12 speaker cab with Celestion Vintage 30 speakers! It's amazing what you can find in a pawn shop!
I can confirm that the speaker cabinet does make a difference. I had a cheap-ish 2x12 that I put a V30 and a Lynchback in. It didn't sound bad but it was difficult to mix as getting the bass under control was difficult. I then got a Zilla Fatboy 2x12 and stuck the same speakers, used the same amp, guitar and mics and the sound was a lot more controlled imo. It was a lot easier for me to get the guitar into a mix as the bass was tighter.
@The Tired Horizon All you need to do to test that, is knock on the cabinet. I prefer small single cabs made from something resonant, like ½" birch plywood and large cabs made from ¾" particle board or something similarly 'dead'. Of course cabinet design is most important. I dare say more important than the speakers. Getting the volume just right is a major challenge. Out of two different speakers, one may sound better in one cab and then the other will sound better in a different cab. Learned that in the 80s, with car boxes.
@@SpectreSoundStudios The Zilla is a slightly bigger cab, it's also one hell of a lot sturdier. I think construction and density / weight will play a bigger roll that the wood.
Yeah, Glenn should have kept the patina and the result would have been even better; the cabinet had been so nicely broken in... (akin to scrubbing a well-seasoned cast iron pan with steel wool and detergents, ugh)
I think this video illustrates how constraints/limitations can actually breed creativity. My own immediate thoughts (upon hearing the different sound of the cream backs) were to either redo the bass mix (or even rearrange the part to make it a distinct entity from the guitar) or to add an additional guitar part that was also very distinct (e.g. effects-laden arpeggio). The interesting thing is that ONE change (the speakers) has now led to 3 very different ideas on what to do next (Glenn's and my 2 above). What's even better is that none of these are necessarily mutually exclusive, so they can mixed and matched in a huge variety of ways. In other words, it's opened the door for a greater range of artistic expression and the possibility for more diverse sounding songs etc. Thanks for this Glenn & co - really educational 👍🤘
Have you heard the Eddie Van Halen 5150 cab story as told by Hartley Peavey? Eddie demanded that the 5150 be made of Baltic birch and Hartley was glad to oblige. When the development team delivered the test model to Eddie he took it apart. Because that's apparently what he did with everything. If it was a guitar they were building him and he didn't like the placement of something he would rip it apart and rout out the body cavity himself or whatever it took to get it the way he wanted it. In the same story we heard about how he has all kinds of inventions in his house ranging from musical stuff to vacuum cleaner innovations. So he takes the test cabinet apart and says, "Hartley, I thought we agreed this cab was going to be made of Baltic birch? What's with these little blocks of plywood down here?" Now, he's talking about some block inside the joints of the sides that was just there to give more space to join them or glue them or whatever. Hartley says, "well we decided that would raise the price by ___ dollars and it wasn't worth it because those little pieces aren't going to change the tone at all." Eddie's not having it. He says it will change the tone and they get into an argument about it. "Alright Eddie, tell you what. I'm so convinced that not even you can tell the difference of the woods on those little blocks, let's do a listening test. I'm going to build sixteen of these things, and in one of them I'll use your Baltic birch on those little blocks. If you can play through them and tell me which one it is then we'll go with it." The cabinets are built and Eddie comes back down to the factory, plugs in and let's just one blistering high sustain note rip and vibrate everything until it dies out. Then he unplugs and goes to the next one, all down the line like that until he gets to one and let's the note rip... "That one."
I bought a pre-loved set of big recto 4x12 cabs; straight and slant. The straight cab had this low booming frequency that I couldn't dial out. Sold the straight cab. 20+ years later I still have the slant.
Holly shit! The GrindStein mix sounds AWESOME! The drums sound literally off the chain. In the Creamback mix they were restrained, not anymore! WOW! And for once I like the chainsaw sound - it still is the chainsaw, just not as fizzy. WELL DONE, GLENN!
Been on a real journey thanks to this video, replaced the stock speaker in my Orange Rocker 15 with a Celestion G10 Vintage, fantastic speaker, nothing like a V30, now I've modified my micro terror 1x8 cab to a semi open back and installed a Celestion Eight 15 at 16ohms to bring the volume down, it's amazing how simple these mods are and how dramatic the difference is afterwards.
Phenomenal video. I’m not even a metal guy really but those guitars sounded huge by the end! I’ve managed to get a ‘70s Celestion G12H which I’m going to try chucking into Marshall’s cheapest 1x12” cab. No Baltic birch in sight. This video shows me it might turn out great!
You're a public music resource for so many! Thank you for these glimpses into what actually has an effect on the (essentially EQ curve) of the gear we all use. We all sometimes need less "hear-say" and more "hear-LISTEN" (see what i did there? ohh....nobody found me funny?) Well my point still stands. You all are in one of the best guitar communities on the interwebz.
Man I love your channel. After watching your video of the Driftwood Purple Nightmare killing it in the mix I bought a Mini Nightmare IR . Your video about noisy power supply for pedals was very helpful too.
4:09 I tell you what that is. It is the aftermath of the day when the shit hit the fan. The previous owner thought selling it will be easier than the clean up.
I had a friend who couldn't leave things alone either. Every time I'd put a new stereo, amp, or speakers in his car, he'd end up getting bored and start messing with them. Not long after, I'd be putting in another piece of gear because he'd short the wires, or poke a hole in the speaker cone trying to put a different one in the box, etc. Good times.
Pickup change does change your guitar sound, but only if you play clean. Heavy distortion makes all pickups sound the same. I know, I know, I need evidence, I'm working on it :)
dating myself, but back in the days where 100 or even 200@ cabs were common, i swapped many a 12 out for something else.. either due to availability or budget.. lots of fenders that got new JBL speakers.. .. i swapped solid state and tube peaveys.. and yes, even a marshall or two.. and they always seemed to sound better to me. glad you found a driver you like.
I have one of those and swap out the Top Speakers. 1 Of the Jensens lives in a 1x12 open Back Combo and 1 is in a 1x12 Iso Cab... and guess what: They sound really good in those! I think those where designed for that and Behringer just bought them cheap in masses. The Interview of that Jensen Guy on Kristian Kohle's Channel brought that up. they tried to recreate the old fender Jensens in the 1 and 2x12 Combos. If you still have one of these try it. They sound really clear and not that "far away" like in the 4x12 in a small Cab.
I think you're going to be surprised by the tone wood experiment. I did an A/B between 2 cabs with the exact same speakers and there was a MASSIVE difference in the low mid and bottom end.
I have a G75 Celestion in a combo cab and I love it! It is a transparent speaker that throws back what you give it. Great choice Glenn and a great price!
The thing I like most about these videos: if you're completely new to playing guitar you can get a DAMN great sound by investing very little. Get new strings, buy a cheap second hand cab and swap the speakers, guitar wood doesn't matter, pickups hardly matter and the most important factor for a great guitar sound: a great performer. So practice! Don't be a bad bass player like your band buddy is. What a time to be alive for beginners. I wish I had known all this when I started.
I picked up an old Crate 4x12 Cab at Guitar Center for $100 USD. I've had the thought of upgrading the speakers, just not sure where I'd even start on picking out speakers. I know you seem to swear by Celestion, but I've heard good things about Eminence as well. Good video!
When you consider only 1 of those 3 main things that affect guitar tone (pickups) cannot really by simulated when recording at home. It would explain why so few basement CZcams artists end up never playing live because that "perfect" sound they created in their studio cannot be repeated live and we end up having bands that just sound bad live even with talent or a couple of people collaborating in their basements. They do themselves a disservice by not taking time to find a live tone then do your best to clone that digitally to record. There is so much talent out there that we should be seeing live locally everywhere but their either are afraid to play live or are not willing to come up with a tone that can be played live. It is why the older bands still tour and still sound amazing because their tone was created playing live.
HAHAHA, I about died when you mentioned the 'final mix 1, 2, 7'! OMG, I do the same damn thing. It's like you always hear something new and just continue to tweak. That saying you are never done with a mix is so true... you just put it away for a while!
Nice test with some interesting results. It goes to show that if you throw a few bucks at an old cab and infuse it with decent speakers, you can get good tone much more cheaply than having to fork out a small fortune for a vintage cab of some repute. That said, I'm hanging onto my - by now also vintage - Marshall 30th Anniversary (non gold logo) 4 x12" 6960B cab. Its 75W Celestions always did the job for me.
I own and use that Behringer cab (with the oe tolex though lol). I've always thought it sounded fine (having no direct comparison in the room save for the smaller combo amps). Hell, the first mix on the Jensens I thought sounded good...then the the mix with the Neo's started playing. Holy shit. You are really onto something here Glen
I really like the Celestion Rocket 50's. They mix well with other speakers. I'm really eyeing a low to mid range Hesu for a Peavey cab that I picked up for free.
I had a cheap ($80 pawn shop special) crate cab with no name speakers that sounded awful. I finally decided to upgrade. I found peavey 6505 Sheffield speakers (set of 4 for $100) on ebay, and swapped them in and siliconed all the wood joints and added foam behind the support beam. Made a huge difference. Sounds pretty good to me now! Of course I've never played through a really nice cab. The Sheffields can be cheap to find, and apparently some sound better than others. I do like the 6505 (1200) models I got.
Gleeeennn! because of you I swapped out the Celestion Vtype speaker in my Marshall DSL40 for a Neo Creamback and it sounds awesome! also saved a good bit of weight as well :)
I actually did a very similar build to this i bought an unloaded behringer 412 and put 2 8 ohm vintage 30s and 2 8 ohm greenbacks and it actually sounds amazing. Got pretty good deals on the greenbacks so im really happy with the sound vs price
I got a line 6 4x12 for 50 bucks Got some used wgs speakers like my revv 2x12 Its amazing Thank you glen I would have been wasting money on tubes. The knowledge you give out is amazing.
There is something off here. Amp eq or post processing... I replaced creambacks with ch12/70 because celestions were muddy and honky and jensen had more open and balanced sound. Quite opposite than here..
I’m actually quite surprised with the difference. I’m curious though how it would sound in the room in a live setting. I have an old peavey butcher 4x12 cab and an orange 4x12. The peavey had k-85s in it and the orange v30s. I decided to combine the 2 by mixing 2 of each speaker in an x pattern. Both cabs still sound quite different in the room. I’m sure if I close mic’d them they’d sound pretty similar though. Not knocking the test, just pointing out this certainly works out to record with close micing but I’d be skeptical or curious for a live setting.
Thought the same thing. Wish he woulda tried leaving 2 Jensen's in with the cream backs and close mic'd the c backs and tossed a couple room mics in for the ultimate time wasting a/b/c/d comparison vid. I already figured hearing a huge difference as soon as I seen the title considering how much change you get from swapping good speakers for a different flavor of good speakers in an already good cab. I think, in the room, it might've sounded pretty mean with the 2 trash Jensen's in given how completely different the tones are. But it might've just sounded like a polished bbq turd lol. We'll never know because Glenn got lazy on us 🤣 fuck you Glenn if you're reading this! Do all the things so we don't have to!!
I'm more into Blues Rock stuff with the whole driven Marshall and all... I own an Orange PPC112 with Vintage 30s in them and I really love the cabinet but I wanted a cabinet with a Greenback. Bought a Blackstar HTV112 for dirt cheap (about 60USD) and ripped the Seventy/80 in them for Greenbacks. I did play with the Seventy/80 for a while and it sound like ass to me. The Greenback made a huge difference and it saved me a good amount of money considering I couldn't find any 1x12 loaded stock with Celestion Greenbacks. Though another thing I'd like to hear a shootout of is the speaker break-in test. How a brand new speaker will sound like after it had been driven hard over couple of hours, days or even weeks.
Holy Crom, the differences were amazing. Being able to hear things back to back like that was eye/ear opening. Basic Behringer sounded OK until the Jensens kicked in and it sounded like the original was under a blanket - dull and flat sonding. Then the new mix with Grindstein and the re-done drums - WOW. Thanks for all the hard work on this stuff - the ultimate metal sound mythbuster.
Thanks for having me on the show Glenn ! Can't wait to see the video about cab materials next :p
Thanks for the killer track, Chuck!
I loved your guitar playing
Thanks bud !
I'm not a metal guy, in fact I don't even LIKE metal, but I find these videos incredibly informative and important when considering the reproduction of sound and the recording of it. They always leave me thinking. Keep up the great work!
You have to appreciate the energy metal guys put into the sound. I’ve learned so much from this guy.
Same, The only kind of metal I like are the ones heard on the Dynasty Warriors games! Now if anyone can steer me that metal tone, I would definitely be interested!
I love how before using the Grindstein the difference was already huge, but after putting the Grindstein (and the new mix) in the difference is just laughable. It is literally ridiculous hearing them side by side. The entire mix just falls apart, even though in the beginning the Behringer cab almost sounded acceptable-ish...
It sounded like the amp had an eq in the loop with everything dropped except the high mids. Like playing through a treble booster direct into interface! HM2 circuits also add a fuck ton of high mids and bass
Hot damn even off my phone speaker you can hear a clear difference. Usually hear the mixes on phone, headphones and then in the car while commuting. Original speakers made that rhythm sound hollow and muted, definitely hear it roar alive with the speaker upgrade! Excellent demo of how speakers can make a world of difference.
Glad you enjoyed it, Mathew!
Those Neo Creambacks sound amazing. I always hear people say they replaced their speakers with v30s, but these blew me away. I’m thinking about a pair in my 2x12.
Changing speakers improve significantly the tone of the cabinet, yes. But i've always been reluctant to do that because, in my mind, the cab itself matters just as much as the speakers. I'd be curious to hear the same speakers in a mesa cab. Not just because of the wood, but mainly because of how the cab is built. I'd love to hear that comparison.
It is going to happen and I will spoil it for you: almost makes no difference. But wait for the video to see it.
@@SyntheticFuture I dunno man. Engl cabs sound different
I know cabinet volume makes a pretty significant difference. Evidence: czcams.com/video/qpq7tsK-kZk/video.html. As for physical makeup? Not sure.
Honestly a great change is also just converting a cab to open back. I know some you can do it and some you have to put the inputs somewhere else. Honestly tho if you have the know how and don't wanna spend 1000$ on a cab. Make your own. That way you can get your best specs
cabinet inner volume is related to the driver's resonant low frequency. with guitars, thats around 78 hz. open backs have better resonance with a plywood baffle, while close backs can benefit from more rigid wood
After hearing Orange's lightweight 2x12 in person, I swapped one of the two v-types in my own cabinet out for a neo-creamback and got exactly what I was looking for. Who would have thought my ears were the best way to judge tone? lol. Great vid.
Always love the effort you put in your videos, in every aspect. Massive respect.
Thanks man!
There's some sort of "tonewood" for guitar cabs in my experience: Plywood good, particle board bad.
Also I once found some old weed in filthy used Hiwatt cabinet I bought a while back.
You may be correct! We'll see in a week or two.
Of all the cabs that's stashing old, forgotten weed, of course it's a Hi-Watt.
Anyone else would have remembered the weed.
You could probably smell it after playing on it. Not that I would know or anything.😂
Wow! That's awesome. I'm blown away by those results. I was thinking about dropping big bucks on a cab shell recently, and seeing this makes me reconsider that idea.
I'm blown away, too! Totally shocked by what we got!
The Jensen speakers remind me of an old Morgoth album. Didn't sound very good but the album's great anyway!
Crazy difference you wound up getting, awesome vid and can't wait for a cab wood shootout
Even through my terrible laptop speakers the difference is night and day. Holy cow. That's incredible.
Even on my cell phone the difference is freaking startling! I used to to have that exact cab....damn
I have two old Line 6 412's that I bought cheap, re-tolexed, re-screened, and loaded them with UK V30's in one and UK Greenbacks in the other. Love em and they rock solid. Now here's an extra bonus fun fact, the UK Line6/Celestions that came with them, I re-coned them with V30 UK cones and they rock! The magnet on them are the same H Ceramics that are on the V-30's. So re-coned them into 30's are perfect.
I don't think there are standing waves if the soundboard is not parallel to the backboard, but a standing wave is not the only way to get a frequency buildup. Also, this cab is technically "full slant", since all 4 speakers are angled up; they're just tilted less than the top speakers of a "half slant" (marketing guys, take notes).
Not only did the new speakers upgrade the sound of the guitar, but it allowed the drums to come through way better too
That final mix was killer! Drums could be heard with more clarity, and the solo lead cut through the mix much better. The sound was crisp and not dull like with the Jenson speakers. Great work, Glen!
I guess it doesn’t hurt to take off the grill of the cab. I thought the sound would be harsh with a lot of highs, but turns out it’s actually for the better. Thanks Glen.
I found an old cab for free in a barn, it was a mess. I grinded the rust off and painted the cab corners. I had to redo the tolex as well since it was ripped and rotted with mold. I cleaned the inside and the Celestion Vintage 30 speakers. I also bought new casters since one was broken and the rest were in terrible rusty condition. After all the work the cab sounds fantastic!
Nice! I remember doing something similar about 20 years back with an abandoned Marshall 1960 cab that was left behind at a multi room rehearsal studio. I had it completely restored with 2x V30s and 2x Greenbacks. Ive regretted selling that cab to this very day.
@@bigmike2149 I sadly think that most of us have that one item that we regret getting rid of. On the bright side you now get to have the excitement of finding another cab that can be a staple in your studio!
On my Marshall stacks, I always put the mic on the angled cabinet. The cabinets came with Vintage 30’s. These cabinets are from the late nineties and maybe early 2,000’s at the very latest.
I was finally able to get the sound I was hearing on recordings after my Sweetwater Salesdude sent me some of those Royer R-10 ribbon mics. I also added an Austrian Audio mic to my locker after listening to your demonstration, Glen.
"Overall this wound up being quite the 2db louder adventure."
The cab sounds a lot better, for sure! I'm really impressed with it and with your mix. You don't need my validation but it's really killer. Good work!
...but also that extra 2db of level is brain cocain. Anyone will prefer that over the original even if it's identical.
That said, I think I have a mid-90s Carvin 4x12 that needs some new speakers...
Just came back to this video because I scored on used Peavey 6505 4X12 speaker cab with Celestion Vintage 30 speakers! It's amazing what you can find in a pawn shop!
Can confirm when the Creambacks kicked on i also went "DAAAAAAAMN"
Even listening to that change through ear buds buds is huge wow.
I can confirm that the speaker cabinet does make a difference. I had a cheap-ish 2x12 that I put a V30 and a Lynchback in. It didn't sound bad but it was difficult to mix as getting the bass under control was difficult. I then got a Zilla Fatboy 2x12 and stuck the same speakers, used the same amp, guitar and mics and the sound was a lot more controlled imo. It was a lot easier for me to get the guitar into a mix as the bass was tighter.
@The Tired Horizon
All you need to do to test that, is knock on the cabinet. I prefer small single cabs made from something resonant, like ½" birch plywood and large cabs made from ¾" particle board or something similarly 'dead'. Of course cabinet design is most important. I dare say more important than the speakers. Getting the volume just right is a major challenge. Out of two different speakers, one may sound better in one cab and then the other will sound better in a different cab. Learned that in the 80s, with car boxes.
Different sized cabinets, yes. Cabinet material? We'll see.
@@SpectreSoundStudios The Zilla is a slightly bigger cab, it's also one hell of a lot sturdier. I think construction and density / weight will play a bigger roll that the wood.
Awesome video Glenn. I’m very tempted to grab a cream back and swap out one of the V30s in my Mesa 2x12” cab.
It’s worth a shot!
@@SpectreSoundStudios I’m on Sweetwater’s website as we speak! LMAO!
Try WGS speakers they make some pretty nice clones of Celestion's at about 25% less of the cost.
@@TheDaveDodsonProject thank you! 🤘🔥🔥
my first cab was a Marshall 1922 2x12 and i still go back to it for crunch sounds... those G12 75t's actually kick ass
3:52 that is pure distilled TONE FILTH.
Yeah, Glenn should have kept the patina and the result would have been even better; the cabinet had been so nicely broken in...
(akin to scrubbing a well-seasoned cast iron pan with steel wool and detergents, ugh)
10:10 That snare sounds so freaking tasty!!!!
Damn that final mix was awsome. Don't think I've ever heard drums come out in a mix that clear. Great video Glen!
Thanks man! It took some work, and about 9 revisions, but I got it there...
Great job with this video, Glenn.
Man - sounds like you lifted a heavy wet blanket off of the speakers at about 10:30. Everything is crystal clear in the mix with the new speakers/mix.
I think this video illustrates how constraints/limitations can actually breed creativity. My own immediate thoughts (upon hearing the different sound of the cream backs) were to either redo the bass mix (or even rearrange the part to make it a distinct entity from the guitar) or to add an additional guitar part that was also very distinct (e.g. effects-laden arpeggio). The interesting thing is that ONE change (the speakers) has now led to 3 very different ideas on what to do next (Glenn's and my 2 above).
What's even better is that none of these are necessarily mutually exclusive, so they can mixed and matched in a huge variety of ways. In other words, it's opened the door for a greater range of artistic expression and the possibility for more diverse sounding songs etc.
Thanks for this Glenn & co - really educational 👍🤘
That final mix truly sounds epic!
That neo cream back grindstein mix is probably one of the best metal mixes Ive ever heard
Have you heard the Eddie Van Halen 5150 cab story as told by Hartley Peavey?
Eddie demanded that the 5150 be made of Baltic birch and Hartley was glad to oblige. When the development team delivered the test model to Eddie he took it apart. Because that's apparently what he did with everything. If it was a guitar they were building him and he didn't like the placement of something he would rip it apart and rout out the body cavity himself or whatever it took to get it the way he wanted it. In the same story we heard about how he has all kinds of inventions in his house ranging from musical stuff to vacuum cleaner innovations.
So he takes the test cabinet apart and says, "Hartley, I thought we agreed this cab was going to be made of Baltic birch? What's with these little blocks of plywood down here?" Now, he's talking about some block inside the joints of the sides that was just there to give more space to join them or glue them or whatever. Hartley says, "well we decided that would raise the price by ___ dollars and it wasn't worth it because those little pieces aren't going to change the tone at all."
Eddie's not having it. He says it will change the tone and they get into an argument about it.
"Alright Eddie, tell you what. I'm so convinced that not even you can tell the difference of the woods on those little blocks, let's do a listening test. I'm going to build sixteen of these things, and in one of them I'll use your Baltic birch on those little blocks. If you can play through them and tell me which one it is then we'll go with it."
The cabinets are built and Eddie comes back down to the factory, plugs in and let's just one blistering high sustain note rip and vibrate everything until it dies out. Then he unplugs and goes to the next one, all down the line like that until he gets to one and let's the note rip... "That one."
VERY interesting stuff. We're going to try that cab wood shootout soon!
@@SpectreSoundStudios Looking forward to it!
I bought a pre-loved set of big recto 4x12 cabs; straight and slant. The straight cab had this low booming frequency that I couldn't dial out. Sold the straight cab. 20+ years later I still have the slant.
Holly shit!
The GrindStein mix sounds AWESOME! The drums sound literally off the chain. In the Creamback mix they were restrained, not anymore! WOW! And for once I like the chainsaw sound - it still is the chainsaw, just not as fizzy.
WELL DONE, GLENN!
Thanks, Marko!
DUDE!!!!!! This might be the most important video you've done so far. Congrats
Real Talk. I love the v30 and neo creamback combo... freaking killer
Been on a real journey thanks to this video, replaced the stock speaker in my Orange Rocker 15 with a Celestion G10 Vintage, fantastic speaker, nothing like a V30, now I've modified my micro terror 1x8 cab to a semi open back and installed a Celestion Eight 15 at 16ohms to bring the volume down, it's amazing how simple these mods are and how dramatic the difference is afterwards.
Phenomenal video. I’m not even a metal guy really but those guitars sounded huge by the end!
I’ve managed to get a ‘70s Celestion G12H which I’m going to try chucking into Marshall’s cheapest 1x12” cab. No Baltic birch in sight. This video shows me it might turn out great!
You're a public music resource for so many! Thank you for these glimpses into what actually has an effect on the (essentially EQ curve) of the gear we all use. We all sometimes need less "hear-say" and more "hear-LISTEN" (see what i did there? ohh....nobody found me funny?) Well my point still stands. You all are in one of the best guitar communities on the interwebz.
Thanks, man!
Man I love your channel. After watching your video of the Driftwood Purple Nightmare killing it in the mix I bought a Mini Nightmare IR . Your video about noisy power supply for pedals was very helpful too.
Getting me stoked to get more busy on my cabinet build with Eminence Legend 12s and 15s.
Didnt know that about standing waves in straight cabs! I need to get a slant. Thanks !
Wow, that final mix came to life!
Holy AM Radio, Batman! Excellent improvement, Glenn
Night and day difference! Those creambacks ARE FIRE!!! Sounds beast
I have 4 1998 celestion gt65s i took out of a red bear cab that sounded thin. Put them in a 73 marshall b cab. Perfection.
4:09 I tell you what that is. It is the aftermath of the day when the shit hit the fan. The previous owner thought selling it will be easier than the clean up.
Wow I would listen to an entire album with that upgraded sound. I definitely expected a difference but that blew me away!
Glen single-handedly saves the used cab market 🎉
basically turning the frown into the smiley curve lmao.
Swapped the stock speakers in an old carpet covered Crate cab a couple weeks ago to 2 Celestion V types and 2 A types. Sounds amazing now.
I had a friend who couldn't leave things alone either. Every time I'd put a new stereo, amp, or speakers in his car, he'd end up getting bored and start messing with them. Not long after, I'd be putting in another piece of gear because he'd short the wires, or poke a hole in the speaker cone trying to put a different one in the box, etc. Good times.
Yeah our guitarist put V30's in the Behringer Ultrastack and uses that with his live rig and it's great. You just need good speakers.
Pickup change does change your guitar sound, but only if you play clean. Heavy distortion makes all pickups sound the same. I know, I know, I need evidence, I'm working on it :)
“Not quite fried assholes, more like barbecued turds” is my new favorite sentence
Wow! What a difference! Great comparison!
Mind blowing result Glenn!
Kick drum and snare really pop out of the mix with the neo-creambacks
dating myself, but back in the days where 100 or even 200@ cabs were common, i swapped many a 12 out for something else.. either due to availability or budget.. lots of fenders that got new JBL speakers.. .. i swapped solid state and tube peaveys.. and yes, even a marshall or two.. and they always seemed to sound better to me. glad you found a driver you like.
I remember Buzz Feiten doing some interesting cabinets in the late 90's... tone wood & stuff...
I have one of those and swap out the Top Speakers. 1 Of the Jensens lives in a 1x12 open Back Combo and 1 is in a 1x12 Iso Cab... and guess what: They sound really good in those!
I think those where designed for that and Behringer just bought them cheap in masses. The Interview of that Jensen Guy on Kristian Kohle's Channel brought that up. they tried to recreate the old fender Jensens in the 1 and 2x12 Combos.
If you still have one of these try it. They sound really clear and not that "far away" like in the 4x12 in a small Cab.
Absolutely KILLER tone, Crom’s balls that’s nasty and fresh!
Dude...the musicians you have do the demos are fucking fantastic. Every goddamn time, those players always blow my fucking socks off.
Been thinking about doing this for a while! I have a 1x12 cab with a V30 and a 1x12 with a Jensen Tornado. I'd love to put a pair of each in a 4x12.
I think you're going to be surprised by the tone wood experiment. I did an A/B between 2 cabs with the exact same speakers and there was a MASSIVE difference in the low mid and bottom end.
I’m an inconvenience fact! I’m also loaded with g12t-75’s 🤘🏽
I have a G75 Celestion in a combo cab and I love it! It is a transparent speaker that throws back what you give it. Great choice Glenn and a great price!
The Jensens made the Rhythm section sound like it was recorded over a (very) old phone line.
Final mix sounds really great!
Wow. You're completely right about the drums popping on the final mix. Great video chap 🙌
More scooped mix with the grindstein. Love it.
Hey what's up, mate? Great seeing you here. Love your videos!
@@mrcoatsworth429 hey man cheers, never miss a video like this!
I picked up my Peavey MS412 for this same price. The sheffields are in a similar boat to the Jensens in this video. I opted for greenbacks
The thing I like most about these videos: if you're completely new to playing guitar you can get a DAMN great sound by investing very little. Get new strings, buy a cheap second hand cab and swap the speakers, guitar wood doesn't matter, pickups hardly matter and the most important factor for a great guitar sound: a great performer. So practice! Don't be a bad bass player like your band buddy is.
What a time to be alive for beginners. I wish I had known all this when I started.
Don’t forget a real set up
I picked up an old Crate 4x12 Cab at Guitar Center for $100 USD. I've had the thought of upgrading the speakers, just not sure where I'd even start on picking out speakers. I know you seem to swear by Celestion, but I've heard good things about Eminence as well. Good video!
When you consider only 1 of those 3 main things that affect guitar tone (pickups) cannot really by simulated when recording at home. It would explain why so few basement CZcams artists end up never playing live because that "perfect" sound they created in their studio cannot be repeated live and we end up having bands that just sound bad live even with talent or a couple of people collaborating in their basements. They do themselves a disservice by not taking time to find a live tone then do your best to clone that digitally to record. There is so much talent out there that we should be seeing live locally everywhere but their either are afraid to play live or are not willing to come up with a tone that can be played live. It is why the older bands still tour and still sound amazing because their tone was created playing live.
HAHAHA, I about died when you mentioned the 'final mix 1, 2, 7'! OMG, I do the same damn thing. It's like you always hear something new and just continue to tweak. That saying you are never done with a mix is so true... you just put it away for a while!
Oh yeah seriously that second mix was leaps and bounds better than the first two!
I did this to a line 6 4x12. Changed 2 speakers and took out the other 2. This thing is a chugzilla now. I used a swamp Thang and a veteren 30
Gleeeeeennnnn! Holy fuck! This video definitely showcases your passion! Definitely can't wait for your tone woods experiment!
Nice test with some interesting results. It goes to show that if you throw a few bucks at an old cab and infuse it with decent speakers, you can get good tone much more cheaply than having to fork out a small fortune for a vintage cab of some repute. That said, I'm hanging onto my - by now also vintage - Marshall 30th Anniversary (non gold logo) 4 x12" 6960B cab. Its 75W Celestions always did the job for me.
I own and use that Behringer cab (with the oe tolex though lol). I've always thought it sounded fine (having no direct comparison in the room save for the smaller combo amps). Hell, the first mix on the Jensens I thought sounded good...then the the mix with the Neo's started playing. Holy shit.
You are really onto something here Glen
I really like the Celestion Rocket 50's. They mix well with other speakers. I'm really eyeing a low to mid range Hesu for a Peavey cab that I picked up for free.
Thank you for your excellence! Yer body of work rules the world.
I had a cheap ($80 pawn shop special) crate cab with no name speakers that sounded awful. I finally decided to upgrade. I found peavey 6505 Sheffield speakers (set of 4 for $100) on ebay, and swapped them in and siliconed all the wood joints and added foam behind the support beam. Made a huge difference. Sounds pretty good to me now! Of course I've never played through a really nice cab. The Sheffields can be cheap to find, and apparently some sound better than others. I do like the 6505 (1200) models I got.
Dude!!!!! That was day and night difference!
Gleeeennn!
because of you I swapped out the Celestion Vtype speaker in my Marshall DSL40 for a Neo Creamback and it sounds awesome!
also saved a good bit of weight as well :)
Oh man.... The endless "Final Mix" 🤣 have a more than a few of those.
I actually did a very similar build to this i bought an unloaded behringer 412 and put 2 8 ohm vintage 30s and 2 8 ohm greenbacks and it actually sounds amazing. Got pretty good deals on the greenbacks so im really happy with the sound vs price
whoa! unbelievable difference
I got a line 6 4x12 for 50 bucks
Got some used wgs speakers like my revv 2x12
Its amazing
Thank you glen
I would have been wasting money on tubes.
The knowledge you give out is amazing.
There is something off here.
Amp eq or post processing...
I replaced creambacks with ch12/70 because celestions were muddy and honky and jensen had more open and balanced sound. Quite opposite than here..
Great video !! And yes that new mix is awesome sounding !!
I’m actually quite surprised with the difference.
I’m curious though how it would sound in the room in a live setting.
I have an old peavey butcher 4x12 cab and an orange 4x12. The peavey had k-85s in it and the orange v30s. I decided to combine the 2 by mixing 2 of each speaker in an x pattern. Both cabs still sound quite different in the room. I’m sure if I close mic’d them they’d sound pretty similar though.
Not knocking the test, just pointing out this certainly works out to record with close micing but I’d be skeptical or curious for a live setting.
Thought the same thing. Wish he woulda tried leaving 2 Jensen's in with the cream backs and close mic'd the c backs and tossed a couple room mics in for the ultimate time wasting a/b/c/d comparison vid. I already figured hearing a huge difference as soon as I seen the title considering how much change you get from swapping good speakers for a different flavor of good speakers in an already good cab. I think, in the room, it might've sounded pretty mean with the 2 trash Jensen's in given how completely different the tones are. But it might've just sounded like a polished bbq turd lol. We'll never know because Glenn got lazy on us 🤣 fuck you Glenn if you're reading this! Do all the things so we don't have to!!
Great video, Glenn. You cover a Lot Of topics in here. Fun stuff.
I'm more into Blues Rock stuff with the whole driven Marshall and all... I own an Orange PPC112 with Vintage 30s in them and I really love the cabinet but I wanted a cabinet with a Greenback. Bought a Blackstar HTV112 for dirt cheap (about 60USD) and ripped the Seventy/80 in them for Greenbacks. I did play with the Seventy/80 for a while and it sound like ass to me. The Greenback made a huge difference and it saved me a good amount of money considering I couldn't find any 1x12 loaded stock with Celestion Greenbacks.
Though another thing I'd like to hear a shootout of is the speaker break-in test. How a brand new speaker will sound like after it had been driven hard over couple of hours, days or even weeks.
Holy Crom, the differences were amazing. Being able to hear things back to back like that was eye/ear opening.
Basic Behringer sounded OK until the Jensens kicked in and it sounded like the original was under a blanket - dull and flat sonding.
Then the new mix with Grindstein and the re-done drums - WOW.
Thanks for all the hard work on this stuff - the ultimate metal sound mythbuster.
Can't believe how much that Jensen was masking the drum tones.