I would like to leave a statement as a large petrol business employee in Queensland Australia, that the time of day you get your fuel does impact the km/L. A little back story first. I sold my car a long time ago and solely use a Cbr954 as my commuter and weekend toy. In "winter" it gets down to around 14'c ambient temperature, the underground tanks at my work sit at about 19'c through this season. Come Summer and the ambient temperature goes as high as 42'c with 60% humidity, the tanks then jump up to about 39 to 42 centigrade depending on what time it is. During this Summer I have gotten an average of 30klm drop in distance in an 18 litre tank that normally sits at 12.8 klm/L. Sure this is nothing to a weekend warrior. But as someone who rides every day on long distance rides this equates to an extra Aus$80 a month compared to winter.
I knew it! Im a Queenslander aswell. I read awhile ago and have lived by it since that When its hot the tanks get hotter (just as you said) and therefor the liquid starts to turn to gas blah blah...But what i heard is that when it does get hot you should pull the trigger on the pump less so it doesnt force the gas and fumes out but only the liquid other wise you are getting less for your dollar. I read that the three dots on the handles are basically levels of pumping and i keep it on the lowest dot when its hot in order to do what i just said.....Mate can you tell me if thats true or not???
Fuel tanks are underground so should be a few degrees cooler, unless the fuel tanks in peat so when the tide is in should be even cooler. More concrete on top of tanks to stop tanks floating.Lol. Most petrol station fuel tanks have concrete deadman blocks to stop fuel tanks floating if the holes they are in fill up with water. Hey, you got a match? Lol.
He is right and it is simple. All the fuel has the same BTU or potential energy. 87 US octane just has a lower flash point. It is easier to start the flame, thus it can combust without the spark plug in a hot motor. 91 or 93 has a higher flash point and can therefore endure a higher temperature without a cookoff (knocking or untimed combustion). Gas Laws say temperature rises directly with pressure so a 10+ to 1 compression or higher is going to be a hotter cylinder Non Americans, RONoctane is a different formula. There is a conversion but typically 90US = 95RON. 87US = 91 or 92RON on resistance to flash burn. *The higher either scale goes, the harder it is to ignite the fuel* Many think it is the opposite.
What you described in the beginning of the vehicle is called detonation. It is described as the ignition of the air-fuel charge ahead of the flame front.
your videos are very informative and seem to be based solely on facts. Keep it up! glad you threw in that some stations have different "detergents" which I would call additives that do make some brands different than others. the additives are injected into the fuel as it is being pumped into the fuel truck that is to deliver the fuel to the station, depending on the pin entered when filling the truck which is based on which station or company its going to. Gas or fuel is different from station to station. or petrol...
Have started watching your videos recently, and enjoying them a lot. It is great to look at to motorcycling from an engineering perspective. Also, your videos have really high quality & extensive content. Most others would make 3 videos out of this single video only :)
Ok, I feel the need to argue your point about the gas wanting to combust based on the compression of the engine. Spontaneous compression is how a diesel engine runs, not a gasoline engine, and this process has at least two necessities before it can take place. One is the viscosity of the fuel, which diesel fuel has because it's thicker and gasoline doesn't because it's thinner. Also, you're partly right, compression does affect it, but spontaneous combustion happens above, like, 14 to 1 compression or higher. A typical gasoline engine doesn't get high enough due to the dynamics of gasoline combustion and the shorter stroke necessitated by the higher speed of most gasoline engines. The explanation I've heard in my research was that octane was basically the speed of the burn during combustion inside the engine. That's why you end up dumping more fuel into an engine that knocks, more fuel gives more time to complete the burn instead of a quick flash and the engine damage that occurs from the excessive knock that follows. You want a controlled, steady burn that develops sufficient pressure to go along with the heat, rather than just a small flash that builds heat but doesn't accomplish anything. That's also why you can't put high octane fuel into a low compression engine, because the fuel burns too quickly and the engine management and fuel injection can only prevent knock and engine damage by adjusting the engine timing and dumping extra fuel into the engine. Gas mileage consequently takes a dive in that situation. I may be misunderstanding the process a little, but it's widespread and not a private interpretation. I don't mean any of this to bash an otherwise good video, and I hope I have at least helped a little.
Mazda's Sky engines have compression ratio 14.1:1, Prius has 13.7:1 engine. It takes some effort to develop such engines and put them in a mass produced car.
Very Good Report! Very informative! 2 quick comments... 1) something related to the temperature/expansion issue... do NOT 'top off' your tank unless you are going to ride a while right after fueling -- especially in Summer and warm weather, of course -- because once in your tank it CAN Expand as it gets warmer than the underground temperature! 2) Probably the Biggest "Problem" with Ethanol content is that the 'alcohol' CAN dissolve some of the rubber gaskets and o-rings and even diaphragms, and such that were used in older engines and fuel systems...even in tractors, lawn mowers, boats and much more... BTW -- ethanol actually has a higher "energy' level than gasoline -- just as diesel does -- but the engine has to be 'configured' a bit differently to 'access' that energy... so you are correct that it is 'lower' when used in the gasoline. But in an engine designed for fuels like "E85" the energy output is higher... Also VERY GLAD you mentioned the Impact that Ethanol is having on Food Costs! Both in the less corn available for human consumption as well as to feed the chickens and livestock for meat products! Most of the general public are not 'aware' of that, and to politicians certainly aren't going to tell us!
Exactly right! This seems to be a very heated topic. I typically get the 92 just to be safe. But I looked up the specs for my bike (thanks to this video) and i could get away with 87. Right on the borderline. So i will be saving a few bucks and getting the mid grade. thanks
I appreciate so much that your videos are based on scientific knowledge, on chemistry or physics. As a chemical engineer myself, I've gotten nothing but pissed off that so many bikers have a iron clad belief in something, such as all bikes need the highest octane for "better quality" and then when I ask them why, they give an awful reason such as, higher number is better or 98 means 98% quality. Please continue doing videos. The format and facts are fantastic.
Excellent video ! I'd mention that some older bikes can't really handle any percentage of ethanol in the long run because of the carb inlets materials.
Yes this is a good video. Some more advice is to buy your fuel from higher volume gas stations as you don't know how long the fuel has been in the tanks of the smaller ones. Even more important is to avoid any station if it has a tanker filling the under ground tanks as they stir up the tanks. I've always found that the best way of getting the best from your bike is using a couple of tanks in a day on a longer run. This cleans out the engine so that it'll purr.
My CBR600RR was tuned from the factory for 91 RON. I put 87 AKI in it which is slightly higher than 91 RON. That's "regular" here in the US. No, you don't need to run 95 AKI in most sportbikes because they were tuned on a lower octane. If you start increasing compression ratio or changing the way your head flows, you may need to tune to a higher octane. If your engine internals are stock, go with what the owners manual says. Most are listed in RON which is 4-6 octane numbers higher than what we see at the pump in the US. Tell me I'm wrong.
You're right about the octane, however the higher octane fuels also have better cleaning agents in the fuel than what the lower octane fuels. So you don't gain any performance by adding the higher octane fuels but you get the better cleanings agents in the fuel.
The crappy part is that if you go to a station that doesn't have individual pumps for each octane you will usually allways have whatever fuel the last guy bought which is usually the lowest grade
This was a great video that explains it quite well in laymans terms. But i have two things to say. 1. I hear this confused everywhere. higher octane fuel actually produces slightly less power because it has slightly less BTU. But this only applies in engines that are unable to adjust value timing and spark ignition. Still in this kind of engine you would never know the difference because it is so small. 2. You said something about how ethanol and that absorbs water. And its ability to absorb water can be a bad thing. That is not an issue. And I'm not talking about levels of ethanol. Just its ability to absorb water.
Modern ignitions can adjust timing on the fly. Older analog ignition can but limited. 4 degrees advance signal rotor advances 4 throughout the powerband. Which u will give and take on the powerband. See on newer vehicle premium uunleaded for best performance. But otherwise if regular RON is used the computer will acknowledge it and adjudt adjust timing accordingly
I accidentally put in almost a full tank of regular gas in my k7 gixxer 600, remembered and added extra .8 gallon 93 octane and drive it home about 4 miles, should i remove thos gas and put in my car or is it fine ?
Suzuki SV650S fuel type recommended for countries outside of US & Canada is 91 Octane. I'm in Australia so think I'll change over to the higher grade and see if I notice a difference.
Your videos are well put together and informative, well done. I saw in one vid that you are new to the States and VA. Welcome to America. Ride recommendations- West of the interstate has some decent roads if you only want to ride for an hour or so. Looks like you may have found one of them(619?). :) Also west of the base has a few decent roads. The road you must ride though is 211. It's THE road to hit if you live east of it. You would pick it up in Warrenton, not much to it until you get to Sperryville then it goes up and over the mountain, which is Skyline Dr, SNP National Park. Skyline Dr is also very twisty and scenic but it is a park with tourist and a 35mph speed limit.
mica H I got to ride skyline drive during the summer and it was the single greatest road I've gotten to ride. But thank you very much for the recommendations, I have done some group rides but couldn't tell you where I ended up so ill start investigating the roads you mentioned
If you were on a group ride, especially with sport bikers, I can't imagine you didn't do 211. That road will bite you if you aren't on your game. Someone wrecks there every weekend in the summer.
I wish you would have covered non ethanol fuels. on my carburetor honda shadow, if I burn anything with ethanol, I get backfiring and a loss of power. same is true for my lawnmower. plus over time they can damage the rubber inside reducing the life of the components and increasing maintenance. boats are the same as well. ethanol attracts moisture. if the vehicle sits for periods inactive, there is a cumulative effect with attracting moisture. while a tank of the ethanol on long trips is OK, you don't want to store the bike with a tank full of ethanol.
Andrew Alford yah I know what you mean, I manage a convenience store and it's actually illegal for me to sell Ethanol free Premium gasoline in my county which sucks
Ethanal also shortens the lifespan of petroleum. This is very important for motorized vehicles like motorcycles because they may not get used often or go in storage depending on your climate. Fuel stabilizers are a good option but modern petrol is mixed with much stronger concentrations or amounts of ethanal that it doesn't always work.
I manage a convenience store and I'll tell yah, whenever I see Ethanol free premium (90-93 octane depending on the state) I always get so excited on the inside
RON octane rating is used everywhere but the US and Canada, what are you talking here Ron or AKI? I use 97 RON recommended by my tuner who flashed my ECU on my MT07.
So can someone explain to me that since the late 80s all of my motorcycles ran way better on higher octane than 87? Makes my pressure washer,leaf blower and Harley run better? Nothing I’ve ever owned ran better on 87 91 seems more responsive n smoother even in my cars they idle better too
Most manufactures of gasoline have to follow guidelines. When pump from coast in pipe or by tanker to service station, they have to take samples.Those samples go to labs were they measure octane and water H2/0. Then they add toluene to make 83-89 or 93%. So, your better off using toluene or alcohol additive.I use 90% alcohol in tank every 3 months since 2003.Keeps injectors clean burns better.
The easiest is to just run the octane rating as in your owners manual.... Many bikes today will run just fine on 87 octane here in the states, my older goldwing suggests 91. and then there are the high compression bikes that need that "premium" grade gas to run right.... if your owners manual lists 87 and your buying 'premium" you're wasting your money, you're not getting any boost in performance from using higher octane fuel...
Hey what's up, like the video by the way. I have a question. If you know bout mopeds. Can i use 87 right after using 93 octane for a 50cc solana moped? Will damage anything?
We don't even gét anything lower than 95 where I live, that is the lowest rating on offer. Almost every big brand will also offer 98, which aside from the higher Octane number will also have certain additives added to the fuel, and while the higher octane rating may not be needed in your bike/car, the additives might definitely have an impact. My diesel car is rated to run on standard diesel (because European law demands it to be able to) but the dealer advises me to use the additive-enriched ones (V-Power, Ultimate and such) because the lower carbon level and cleaning additives will make my DPF last longer. The car also feels less sluggish when spinning up the turbo. I use 98 Ultimate (sometimes) in my 1989 Honda motorcycle just to have the additives keep my engine clean(er). I don't have the exact science behind it (because I CBA to pull open the engine and do some real world testing) but there is ample research to back up this theory.
Easy answer, use what your owners manual says to use. On most bikes that will be a minimum of 91 (R+M)/2 (in North America) or 94RON (Europe) which is the normal "premium" grade. Some entry level bikes and cruisers will run just fine on regular unleaded which is 87 (R+M)/2 or 90RON.
Question. Would putting premium unleaded petrol in my 2-stroke 50cc scooter help with engine longevity? Or would it just be a waste of money and do more harm than good? I'm not trying to get better performance out of the bike i'm just thinking about the engine & looking after it as best as possible.
Please help I used pure gasoline and long story short fkd my bike up wouldn’t go above 8 and kept stalling in and out and then it shut off completely and ran out of power completely
If you have CV carbs on your bike, you want to avoid ethanol if at all possible because the ethanol will dry out the diaphragm, which can be an expensive or impossible repair if you have ancient CV carbs. Like my bike uses 35 year old Keihin CV34 carbs. They're the original model of carbs on the bike, but restored to like new condition. I have to be very careful where I get my fuel from if I want to preserve those diaphragms, which aren't being made anymore. Sure, I could convert to Mikuni BS34 carbs, which were used on the same model of bike from 2 years later and on, and their diaphragms are still being made. However, Mikuni would not be 100% stock anymore for my year of bike, and it would change the performance dramatically. Despite being the same size of the same type of carb, the BS34 is less tolerant to shenanigans than the CV34 is. The CV34 you could actually replace the airbox and filter with velocity stacks and it'd MOSTLY work just fine. However, the BS34 is very finicky and it'll stall out on a crosswind if you do that, where the CV34 carbs won't stall the engine with that setup, but you will lose some power. Anyway, yeah, CV carbs = avoid ethanol. If I have to use ethanol because I need to fuel up and none of the gas stations have it, I'll add some seafoam to the tank which is supposed to help prevent damage to ethanol sensitive rubber parts. All my hoses have been changed to ethanol safe, but I can't change the diaphragms to an ethanol safe rubber because they have to be a very soft rubber, which is not ethanol safe.
My 11.1 calls for 87. All modern bikes all have anti knock built into the ECU. The owners manual will always tell what octane to use. The spark actually happens BTDC befor top dead centre. Advance means it fires sooner. A higher octane fuel burns slower if a vehicle calls for 87 and one uses higher it is just thrown into the cat.
Fundamental flaw - petrol-air mix does *not* self-combust under compression - unless you have pre-ignition (the spark plug has become a glow-plug), and which is really bad news for your motor anyway. The highest octane fuels are better developed than the others and burn far more cleanly which may be of more importance than their octane rating, the poorer fuels can produce a lot of carbon deposit. This alone may be a good reason for feeding 99RON to an 8.5:1 engine that will run on 87. It takes time for the ignition to ignite the whole volume of the fuel mix in the combustion chamber. The spark ignition occurs well before TDC so that full combustion can produce maximum power on the down stroke.
You are right and not fully correct, you are forgetting temp. I am in Florida, this summer it has been at 95 most of the summer, 85 in the morning. We use mid-grade when temp starts to climb to the high 80's, and 93 when the temp climbs and stays above 90. Modern bikes do have knock sensors just like modern autos, when a knock is sensed power is reduced to prevent engine damage. If you do not know what knock sounds like, try to picture the sound of a can of marbles getting shook up. If you drive gently, ya may not need to go to the better grades, but if you are driving for your life in Miami summer traffic, ya may want to know that the power will be there when you really need to get on it. The difference is most apparent when accelerating, this is when the ECU advances the spark to give you that kick to get you into traffic. If the fuel is crap, and starts knocking, your bike will reduce power at the moment you need it the most. Ethanol fuel adds to the problem as it attracts water turns to sludge in less that a month. Either keep it full, or make sure you run it out at least every month, run it dry if you are not going to ride very often. Nothing worse than trying to start and run a bike that has been sitting with a tank of old gas all winter. Fuel problems are at the heart of many performance head aches. Also, "TOP TIER FUEL" look it up for yourself. NEVER NEVER use cheap gas. It is offered at a discount for a reason. Stay with the top tier brands, and your bike time will be trouble free.
So, on modern fuel injection engines, there's an electronic adjustment of timing. Timing can be advanced leading to better ignition for more power/efficiency of fuel. With higher octane fuel, modern engines can take advantage and you'll get more power and efficiency than using a lower octane if allowed by the manufacturer. Whether that's worth the premium of the higher octane fuel, I'll leave up to the individuals and people who do maths for fun. Personally, I go higher octane or diesel.
What are the negative effects of running a higher octane vs the negative effects of running an octane that is too low. Keep in mind, at a lot of gas stations in the US below a certain octane you are paying for alcohol which also damages your bike.
the negative effect of using higher than necessary octane is cost. The negative effect of using lower than necessary octane is knock in your engine caused by premature combustion. The alcohol content in fuel is regulated at 10 - 15%. I believe it's typically 10%. The octane rating and the alcohol content are not related. The more alcohol in the fuel the more fuel you will use as there is not as much energy (BTUs) in alcohol as there is in gasoline.
I put 93 in my car and it feels way better. But i was always told to use 93 in my motorcycle but its a 03 sv 650 vtwin dual carbs. Ive wondered wat would happen if i put in 85 or 89
I just have one doubt. I hope somebody would help me out. Please So, we all now know that most of the motorcycles have compression ratio in between 6:1 to 10:1 but my motorcycle which is a 200cc naked street bike with just 20bhp @ 9000rpm with freaking 3 spark plugs(unnecessarily) has a compression ratio of *11:1*. Now, first I dont know why the fuck the ratio is too high and second which petrol to use?
Hi david please help me. I have yamaha sr250 whats the gas should i use 95 or 91 whats better please answer coz i use 95 and there is something wrong its not work good.. Tell me whats better ❤️
Im in a debate with some industry peers...My belief is that a higher octane fuel should be used in an air cooled bike vs a water cooled bike, My reasoning is that the extra heat in an air cooled bike seems to pre ignite, robbing power and wearing the wristpin and crank surfaces and leaving more carbon deposits.. Anyone have some input?
At speed I don't think air cooled and water cooled makes much difference. In the city you have a point with all the start and stopping. Yes heat will cause preignition that's a fact, so I imagine city driving would be hard on any engine. I'd make sure quality coolant in liquid cooled engines and oil changes I change mine 500-1000 miles before recommended just cause the way I ride. Judging based on my owners manual which suggests shift points that are lower than I shift at. Everyone makes their own decision though, and if you can afford a new engine I don't guess it matters
@@ryanpark2049 Man.. A lot has changed since I asked this question.. We were focused on our small Air cooled 150cc scooters in comparison the comparable water cooled units of the same cc and tune. With a head temp differential of nearly 120-180F it matters a lot in a race situation. Trying to save water weight and parasitic losses from pump drag, with the air cooled units yet retain performance in the long runs was our goal. We determined heat soak preignition on an air cooled bike at speed could be mitigated with ethanol but that has unwanted effects on fuel systems over time, so to add an octane booster lowered air cooled head temps by 12 -60 degrees F. and removed the ping enough for us to compete with only 2 engines for the season.. We didn't do that great but we had fun for cheap.. I had forgotten all about this entire month of my life. LOL Comment section keeping me real. Cheers.
@@redneckhippiefreak most people on the street just go to the store and back. I wouldn't assume water vs air cooled makes much difference. If you keep oil changes within limits then really what more can you do? I personally change my fluids earlier cause I know I'm harder on my engines than the books recommended intervals
@@redneckhippiefreak he has a point with air cooled bikes running hotter. Clearly in situations where there wouldn't be sufficient air to cool a bike. I.e. prolonged riding within the city
higher is never bad, lower is allways bad. plain simple. and no, usually higher octane stuff /usually/ has better addictives too, so never hurts to NOT get the lowest the bike can handle, but get the next highest rating if you can. the "savings" you loose makes no difference to be honest. and even if you have a 4 stroke engine, a tiny bit of 2t oil is not going to hurt anything. yet, the extra lube can come handy.
Strictly speaking, the RON is not an octane rating - the ammount of Octane doesn't vary much in modern fuels. But the COMPRESSIBILITY of the fuel does. The RON is a measure of auto-ignition-compression-ratio. Not so much how much octane the fuel contains.
RON for those that don't know, is "Research Octane Number." Or essentially, it means how much Octane-equivalence your fuel has. 98 RON means it can be compressed as a fuel with 98-Octane/02-Heptaine.
That is definitely not an NZ accent. Hah. Can't say I blame you. We have it pretty good down here. Well, apart from astronomical shipping costs for overseas products due to how far away we are from everything.
the 10% ethanol in most pump gas won't hurt any modern bike, they are designed to use it. If you have some old 40+ year old bike that probably ran on leaded gas then it might be a problem, but simply replacing the fuel lines and seals with modern materials will fix that.
What he said about the ethanol is 100% true you get less mpg so you buy more that's why they are making these e85 vehicles that get less mpg so you spend more money I wish they would publicize that more on the radio all I here is ethanol commercials on the radio
that bike is fucking gorgeous. these were the last GSXR with the best design and pointy clean front end. the ones after 2011 were ugly as fuck with the humongous humpty dumpty front end. I have the pearl white 2009 gsxr600. anyways, using the minimum recommended gasoline in the owners manual will prevent carbon buildup on the intake and exhaust valves. perfect........but also using this minimum octane in hot weather and hauling ass can cause preignition issues trust me. I use 87 most of the time but if sitting at a light and bike reaches 220 degrees and I then full throttle haul ass, I definitely hear the pops. sounds good I guess but the engine doesn't like it.
I would like to leave a statement as a large petrol business employee in Queensland Australia, that the time of day you get your fuel does impact the km/L. A little back story first. I sold my car a long time ago and solely use a Cbr954 as my commuter and weekend toy. In "winter" it gets down to around 14'c ambient temperature, the underground tanks at my work sit at about 19'c through this season. Come Summer and the ambient temperature goes as high as 42'c with 60% humidity, the tanks then jump up to about 39 to 42 centigrade depending on what time it is. During this Summer I have gotten an average of 30klm drop in distance in an 18 litre tank that normally sits at 12.8 klm/L. Sure this is nothing to a weekend warrior. But as someone who rides every day on long distance rides this equates to an extra Aus$80 a month compared to winter.
I knew it! Im a Queenslander aswell. I read awhile ago and have lived by it since that When its hot the tanks get hotter (just as you said) and therefor the liquid starts to turn to gas blah blah...But what i heard is that when it does get hot you should pull the trigger on the pump less so it doesnt force the gas and fumes out but only the liquid other wise you are getting less for your dollar. I read that the three dots on the handles are basically levels of pumping and i keep it on the lowest dot when its hot in order to do what i just said.....Mate can you tell me if thats true or not???
Fuel tanks are underground so should be a few degrees cooler, unless the fuel tanks in peat so when the tide is in should be even cooler. More concrete on top of tanks to stop tanks floating.Lol. Most petrol station fuel tanks have concrete deadman blocks to stop fuel tanks floating if the holes they are in fill up with water. Hey, you got a match? Lol.
Petrol? More like peetrol
He is right and it is simple. All the fuel has the same BTU or potential energy. 87 US octane just has a lower flash point. It is easier to start the flame, thus it can combust without the spark plug in a hot motor. 91 or 93 has a higher flash point and can therefore endure a higher temperature without a cookoff (knocking or untimed combustion).
Gas Laws say temperature rises directly with pressure so a 10+ to 1 compression or higher is going to be a hotter cylinder
Non Americans, RONoctane is a different formula. There is a conversion but typically 90US = 95RON. 87US = 91 or 92RON on resistance to flash burn. *The higher either scale goes, the harder it is to ignite the fuel* Many think it is the opposite.
What you described in the beginning of the vehicle is called detonation. It is described as the ignition of the air-fuel charge ahead of the flame front.
your videos are very informative and seem to be based solely on facts. Keep it up!
glad you threw in that some stations have different "detergents" which I would call additives that do make some brands different than others. the additives are injected into the fuel as it is being pumped into the fuel truck that is to deliver the fuel to the station, depending on the pin entered when filling the truck which is based on which station or company its going to. Gas or fuel is different from station to station. or petrol...
Love your videos man, keep em up!
Good show my friend. Nice to see someone more geeky about bikes than I am. Always learn something.
Have started watching your videos recently, and enjoying them a lot. It is great to look at to motorcycling from an engineering perspective. Also, your videos have really high quality & extensive content. Most others would make 3 videos out of this single video only :)
Interesting info, thanks for sharing your knowledges with us
You went so in depth in this video. Good work!
Ok, I feel the need to argue your point about the gas wanting to combust based on the compression of the engine. Spontaneous compression is how a diesel engine runs, not a gasoline engine, and this process has at least two necessities before it can take place. One is the viscosity of the fuel, which diesel fuel has because it's thicker and gasoline doesn't because it's thinner. Also, you're partly right, compression does affect it, but spontaneous combustion happens above, like, 14 to 1 compression or higher. A typical gasoline engine doesn't get high enough due to the dynamics of gasoline combustion and the shorter stroke necessitated by the higher speed of most gasoline engines. The explanation I've heard in my research was that octane was basically the speed of the burn during combustion inside the engine. That's why you end up dumping more fuel into an engine that knocks, more fuel gives more time to complete the burn instead of a quick flash and the engine damage that occurs from the excessive knock that follows. You want a controlled, steady burn that develops sufficient pressure to go along with the heat, rather than just a small flash that builds heat but doesn't accomplish anything. That's also why you can't put high octane fuel into a low compression engine, because the fuel burns too quickly and the engine management and fuel injection can only prevent knock and engine damage by adjusting the engine timing and dumping extra fuel into the engine. Gas mileage consequently takes a dive in that situation. I may be misunderstanding the process a little, but it's widespread and not a private interpretation. I don't mean any of this to bash an otherwise good video, and I hope I have at least helped a little.
Mazda's Sky engines have compression ratio 14.1:1, Prius has 13.7:1 engine. It takes some effort to develop such engines and put them in a mass produced car.
Very Good Report! Very informative!
2 quick comments...
1) something related to the temperature/expansion issue... do NOT 'top off' your tank unless you are going to ride a while right after fueling -- especially in Summer and warm weather, of course -- because once in your tank it CAN Expand as it gets warmer than the underground temperature!
2) Probably the Biggest "Problem" with Ethanol content is that the 'alcohol' CAN dissolve some of the rubber gaskets and o-rings and even diaphragms, and such that were used in older engines and fuel systems...even in tractors, lawn mowers, boats and much more...
BTW -- ethanol actually has a higher "energy' level than gasoline -- just as diesel does -- but the engine has to be 'configured' a bit differently to 'access' that energy... so you are correct that it is 'lower' when used in the gasoline. But in an engine designed for fuels like "E85" the energy output is higher...
Also VERY GLAD you mentioned the Impact that Ethanol is having on Food Costs! Both in the less corn available for human consumption as well as to feed the chickens and livestock for meat products!
Most of the general public are not 'aware' of that, and to politicians certainly aren't going to tell us!
Exactly right! This seems to be a very heated topic. I typically get the 92 just to be safe. But I looked up the specs for my bike (thanks to this video) and i could get away with 87. Right on the borderline. So i will be saving a few bucks and getting the mid grade. thanks
I appreciate so much that your videos are based on scientific knowledge, on chemistry or physics. As a chemical engineer myself, I've gotten nothing but pissed off that so many bikers have a iron clad belief in something, such as all bikes need the highest octane for "better quality" and then when I ask them why, they give an awful reason such as, higher number is better or 98 means 98% quality. Please continue doing videos. The format and facts are fantastic.
Excellent video ! I'd mention that some older bikes can't really handle any percentage of ethanol in the long run because of the carb inlets materials.
Yes this is a good video. Some more advice is to buy your fuel from higher volume gas stations as you don't know how long the fuel has been in the tanks of the smaller ones. Even more important is to avoid any station if it has a tanker filling the under ground tanks as they stir up the tanks. I've always found that the best way of getting the best from your bike is using a couple of tanks in a day on a longer run. This cleans out the engine so that it'll purr.
My CBR600RR was tuned from the factory for 91 RON. I put 87 AKI in it which is slightly higher than 91 RON. That's "regular" here in the US. No, you don't need to run 95 AKI in most sportbikes because they were tuned on a lower octane. If you start increasing compression ratio or changing the way your head flows, you may need to tune to a higher octane. If your engine internals are stock, go with what the owners manual says. Most are listed in RON which is 4-6 octane numbers higher than what we see at the pump in the US. Tell me I'm wrong.
You're right about the octane, however the higher octane fuels also have better cleaning agents in the fuel than what the lower octane fuels. So you don't gain any performance by adding the higher octane fuels but you get the better cleanings agents in the fuel.
wrong..
This is so wrong
I enjoyed your video mate. Good information and we'll delivered. Thanks
I just discovered this channel. Really good info. Subscribed
What about after effects of fuel inside the engines, like ability to clean or its propensity to cause buildup, or keep deposits out?
The crappy part is that if you go to a station that doesn't have individual pumps for each octane you will usually allways have whatever fuel the last guy bought which is usually the lowest grade
This was a great video that explains it quite well in laymans terms. But i have two things to say. 1. I hear this confused everywhere. higher octane fuel actually produces slightly less power because it has slightly less BTU. But this only applies in engines that are unable to adjust value timing and spark ignition. Still in this kind of engine you would never know the difference because it is so small. 2. You said something about how ethanol and that absorbs water. And its ability to absorb water can be a bad thing. That is not an issue. And I'm not talking about levels of ethanol. Just its ability to absorb water.
ethanol also causes expansion in plastic parts like some tanks and other bits in the fuel delivery conduit.
Modern ignitions can adjust timing on the fly. Older analog ignition can but limited. 4 degrees advance signal rotor advances 4 throughout the powerband. Which u will give and take on the powerband. See on newer vehicle premium uunleaded for best performance. But otherwise if regular RON is used the computer will acknowledge it and adjudt adjust timing accordingly
is that wawa off 422 just south of reading pa?
I accidentally put in almost a full tank of regular gas in my k7 gixxer 600, remembered and added extra .8 gallon 93 octane and drive it home about 4 miles, should i remove thos gas and put in my car or is it fine ?
Suzuki SV650S fuel type recommended for countries outside of US & Canada is 91 Octane. I'm in Australia so think I'll change over to the higher grade and see if I notice a difference.
Read your bikes manual and see what it recommends. I trust the engineers that built it more than any random on the internet.
Your videos are well put together and informative, well done. I saw in one vid that you are new to the States and VA. Welcome to America. Ride recommendations- West of the interstate has some decent roads if you only want to ride for an hour or so. Looks like you may have found one of them(619?). :) Also west of the base has a few decent roads.
The road you must ride though is 211. It's THE road to hit if you live east of it. You would pick it up in Warrenton, not much to it until you get to Sperryville then it goes up and over the mountain, which is Skyline Dr, SNP National Park. Skyline Dr is also very twisty and scenic but it is a park with tourist and a 35mph speed limit.
mica H I got to ride skyline drive during the summer and it was the single greatest road I've gotten to ride. But thank you very much for the recommendations, I have done some group rides but couldn't tell you where I ended up so ill start investigating the roads you mentioned
If you were on a group ride, especially with sport bikers, I can't imagine you didn't do 211. That road will bite you if you aren't on your game. Someone wrecks there every weekend in the summer.
What if my compression ratio is 6.87/1 and 2-Stroke??? 1974 Suzuki TS 250 savage
can we mix premium and leaded gasoline???
In finland we have 98e5 (5%ethanol gas) and 95e10 (10%) and it is said that 98e is better than 95 but I Fuel 95
I wish you would have covered non ethanol fuels. on my carburetor honda shadow, if I burn anything with ethanol, I get backfiring and a loss of power. same is true for my lawnmower. plus over time they can damage the rubber inside reducing the life of the components and increasing maintenance. boats are the same as well. ethanol attracts moisture. if the vehicle sits for periods inactive, there is a cumulative effect with attracting moisture. while a tank of the ethanol on long trips is OK, you don't want to store the bike with a tank full of ethanol.
Andrew Alford I have 2 older Honda as more stations offer e free that's what im going with
Andrew Alford yah I know what you mean, I manage a convenience store and it's actually illegal for me to sell Ethanol free Premium gasoline in my county which sucks
What the manufacturer recommends
I have 150cc bike. What is the best octane?
Ethanal also shortens the lifespan of petroleum. This is very important for motorized vehicles like motorcycles because they may not get used often or go in storage depending on your climate. Fuel stabilizers are a good option but modern petrol is mixed with much stronger concentrations or amounts of ethanal that it doesn't always work.
I manage a convenience store and I'll tell yah, whenever I see Ethanol free premium (90-93 octane depending on the state) I always get so excited on the inside
RON octane rating is used everywhere but the US and Canada, what are you talking here Ron or AKI? I use 97 RON recommended by my tuner who flashed my ECU on my MT07.
Great vid brother🤘🏾😎
What's good for 2018 cb650f?
Awesome awesome video, love to see wawa . Just subbed
So can someone explain to me that since the late 80s all of my motorcycles ran way better on higher octane than 87? Makes my pressure washer,leaf blower and Harley run better? Nothing I’ve ever owned ran better on 87 91 seems more responsive n smoother even in my cars they idle better too
higher compression engines need higher octane simple as that
i Use it for my Tacoma Night an day Difrence !!!
Most manufactures of gasoline have to follow guidelines. When pump from coast in pipe or by tanker to service station, they have to take samples.Those samples go to labs were they measure octane and water H2/0. Then they add toluene to make 83-89 or 93%. So, your better off using toluene or alcohol additive.I use 90% alcohol in tank every 3 months since 2003.Keeps injectors clean burns better.
The background music is distracting and annoying.
Good video tho.
Could I please add another 10,0000 to that.
I actually like it
The easiest is to just run the octane rating as in your owners manual.... Many bikes today will run just fine on 87 octane here in the states, my older goldwing suggests 91. and then there are the high compression bikes that need that "premium" grade gas to run right.... if your owners manual lists 87 and your buying 'premium" you're wasting your money, you're not getting any boost in performance from using higher octane fuel...
Hey what's up, like the video by the way. I have a question. If you know bout mopeds. Can i use 87 right after using 93 octane for a 50cc solana moped? Will damage anything?
We don't even gét anything lower than 95 where I live, that is the lowest rating on offer. Almost every big brand will also offer 98, which aside from the higher Octane number will also have certain additives added to the fuel, and while the higher octane rating may not be needed in your bike/car, the additives might definitely have an impact.
My diesel car is rated to run on standard diesel (because European law demands it to be able to) but the dealer advises me to use the additive-enriched ones (V-Power, Ultimate and such) because the lower carbon level and cleaning additives will make my DPF last longer. The car also feels less sluggish when spinning up the turbo.
I use 98 Ultimate (sometimes) in my 1989 Honda motorcycle just to have the additives keep my engine clean(er). I don't have the exact science behind it (because I CBA to pull open the engine and do some real world testing) but there is ample research to back up this theory.
Easy answer, use what your owners manual says to use. On most bikes that will be a minimum of 91 (R+M)/2 (in North America) or 94RON (Europe) which is the normal "premium" grade. Some entry level bikes and cruisers will run just fine on regular unleaded which is 87 (R+M)/2 or 90RON.
Question.
Would putting premium unleaded petrol in my 2-stroke 50cc scooter help with engine longevity?
Or would it just be a waste of money and do more harm than good?
I'm not trying to get better performance out of the bike i'm just thinking about the engine & looking after it as best as possible.
AnthonyMc4749 my 2017 Peace Sport functions better with non ethanol but it will take 93 from Shell if necessary.
Please help I used pure gasoline and long story short fkd my bike up wouldn’t go above 8 and kept stalling in and out and then it shut off completely and ran out of power completely
If you have CV carbs on your bike, you want to avoid ethanol if at all possible because the ethanol will dry out the diaphragm, which can be an expensive or impossible repair if you have ancient CV carbs. Like my bike uses 35 year old Keihin CV34 carbs. They're the original model of carbs on the bike, but restored to like new condition. I have to be very careful where I get my fuel from if I want to preserve those diaphragms, which aren't being made anymore. Sure, I could convert to Mikuni BS34 carbs, which were used on the same model of bike from 2 years later and on, and their diaphragms are still being made. However, Mikuni would not be 100% stock anymore for my year of bike, and it would change the performance dramatically.
Despite being the same size of the same type of carb, the BS34 is less tolerant to shenanigans than the CV34 is. The CV34 you could actually replace the airbox and filter with velocity stacks and it'd MOSTLY work just fine. However, the BS34 is very finicky and it'll stall out on a crosswind if you do that, where the CV34 carbs won't stall the engine with that setup, but you will lose some power.
Anyway, yeah, CV carbs = avoid ethanol. If I have to use ethanol because I need to fuel up and none of the gas stations have it, I'll add some seafoam to the tank which is supposed to help prevent damage to ethanol sensitive rubber parts. All my hoses have been changed to ethanol safe, but I can't change the diaphragms to an ethanol safe rubber because they have to be a very soft rubber, which is not ethanol safe.
My 11.1 calls for 87. All modern bikes all have anti knock built into the ECU. The owners manual will always tell what octane to use. The spark actually happens BTDC befor top dead centre. Advance means it fires sooner. A higher octane fuel burns slower if a vehicle calls for 87 and one uses higher it is just thrown into the cat.
Says on most bikes from the manufacturer to not put anything below 91 octane on mine.
Fundamental flaw - petrol-air mix does *not* self-combust under compression - unless you have pre-ignition (the spark plug has become a glow-plug), and which is really bad news for your motor anyway.
The highest octane fuels are better developed than the others and burn far more cleanly which may be of more importance than their octane rating, the poorer fuels can produce a lot of carbon deposit. This alone may be a good reason for feeding 99RON to an 8.5:1 engine that will run on 87.
It takes time for the ignition to ignite the whole volume of the fuel mix in the combustion chamber. The spark ignition occurs well before TDC so that full combustion can produce maximum power on the down stroke.
nice informative video. thumbs up
Fellow NOVA rider, nice! Really close neighbor actually, it appears...
You are right and not fully correct, you are forgetting temp. I am in Florida, this summer it has been at 95 most of the summer, 85 in the morning. We use mid-grade when temp starts to climb to the high 80's, and 93 when the temp climbs and stays above 90. Modern bikes do have knock sensors just like modern autos, when a knock is sensed power is reduced to prevent engine damage. If you do not know what knock sounds like, try to picture the sound of a can of marbles getting shook up. If you drive gently, ya may not need to go to the better grades, but if you are driving for your life in Miami summer traffic, ya may want to know that the power will be there when you really need to get on it. The difference is most apparent when accelerating, this is when the ECU advances the spark to give you that kick to get you into traffic. If the fuel is crap, and starts knocking, your bike will reduce power at the moment you need it the most. Ethanol fuel adds to the problem as it attracts water turns to sludge in less that a month. Either keep it full, or make sure you run it out at least every month, run it dry if you are not going to ride very often. Nothing worse than trying to start and run a bike that has been sitting with a tank of old gas all winter. Fuel problems are at the heart of many performance head aches. Also, "TOP TIER FUEL" look it up for yourself. NEVER NEVER use cheap gas. It is offered at a discount for a reason. Stay with the top tier brands, and your bike time will be trouble free.
Good amount of info and nice editing buddy.
I just need to get as good as you at community involvement and I'm set :)
BikeBros thanks for that compliment bro :D
depends on the compression. Higher compression = higher octane. Honda VTX = 87 regular, HD Vrod = 95 supreme
But vtx 1300 or 1800 is fine on 87?
So maybe fill your tank with premium once or twice a year maybe? Depending on how much you ride
Variable timing motors do run better on 91 vs 87
So, on modern fuel injection engines, there's an electronic adjustment of timing. Timing can be advanced leading to better ignition for more power/efficiency of fuel. With higher octane fuel, modern engines can take advantage and you'll get more power and efficiency than using a lower octane if allowed by the manufacturer. Whether that's worth the premium of the higher octane fuel, I'll leave up to the individuals and people who do maths for fun. Personally, I go higher octane or diesel.
What are the negative effects of running a higher octane vs the negative effects of running an octane that is too low. Keep in mind, at a lot of gas stations in the US below a certain octane you are paying for alcohol which also damages your bike.
the negative effect of using higher than necessary octane is cost. The negative effect of using lower than necessary octane is knock in your engine caused by premature combustion. The alcohol content in fuel is regulated at 10 - 15%. I believe it's typically 10%. The octane rating and the alcohol content are not related. The more alcohol in the fuel the more fuel you will use as there is not as much energy (BTUs) in alcohol as there is in gasoline.
Ha, I know that Wawa. I grew up just down the street
I wonder if their is something other than pump gas that would work better
This was very educational, i saw a few missed points but this has encouraged me to make a similar video on my channel
RTM. What irks me, Harley runs on 91, only 93 in my area -_-. I'm not about to play chemist at the pump - mixing 87/93 to save a few cents.
91 non oxygenated all the rest of the gasoline contains alcohol how it sucks moisture out of the air so which adds water in your gas
Simply run the manufactured recommended grade of fuel, run a top end lube like Lucas and you will be just fine.
I put 93 in my car and it feels way better. But i was always told to use 93 in my motorcycle but its a 03 sv 650 vtwin dual carbs. Ive wondered wat would happen if i put in 85 or 89
But i always use a stabilizer
Nice looking gsxr
great video
Markus Lamarr useful video mate
I have heard premium fuels, the 91 octane and such, will not have the ethanol in them which is a plus enough if it's true..
Depends on the fuel station, it usual will tell you on the pump.
Lol I thought it was a movie trailer I was definitely waiting for the skip button
He actually knows what the fuck he's talking about. On the last note I think we all know what pre-detonation is.
I just have one doubt. I hope somebody would help me out. Please
So, we all now know that most of the motorcycles have compression ratio in between 6:1 to 10:1 but my motorcycle which is a 200cc naked street bike with just 20bhp @ 9000rpm with freaking 3 spark plugs(unnecessarily) has a compression ratio of *11:1*.
Now, first I dont know why the fuck the ratio is too high and second which petrol to use?
I'm surprised you dont have more subscribers
Unfortunately my country only have ron 95 and ron 97
👍
+Canadian MotoGal 🤘
the intro was awesome lol
great vid, u earned a sub with this 1
can i use regular 87 octane gas on my motorcycle though the manual says it requires 91?thanks
I tried 87 octane in my 2001 bike, so far so good. I don't notice any difference so far.
Hi david please help me. I have yamaha sr250 whats the gas should i use 95 or 91 whats better please answer coz i use 95 and there is something wrong its not work good.. Tell me whats better ❤️
I have gsxr 600 2006 i put a 100
Im in a debate with some industry peers...My belief is that a higher octane fuel should be used in an air cooled bike vs a water cooled bike, My reasoning is that the extra heat in an air cooled bike seems to pre ignite, robbing power and wearing the wristpin and crank surfaces and leaving more carbon deposits.. Anyone have some input?
At speed I don't think air cooled and water cooled makes much difference. In the city you have a point with all the start and stopping. Yes heat will cause preignition that's a fact, so I imagine city driving would be hard on any engine. I'd make sure quality coolant in liquid cooled engines and oil changes I change mine 500-1000 miles before recommended just cause the way I ride. Judging based on my owners manual which suggests shift points that are lower than I shift at. Everyone makes their own decision though, and if you can afford a new engine I don't guess it matters
@@ryanpark2049 Man.. A lot has changed since I asked this question.. We were focused on our small Air cooled 150cc scooters in comparison the comparable water cooled units of the same cc and tune. With a head temp differential of nearly 120-180F it matters a lot in a race situation. Trying to save water weight and parasitic losses from pump drag, with the air cooled units yet retain performance in the long runs was our goal. We determined heat soak preignition on an air cooled bike at speed could be mitigated with ethanol but that has unwanted effects on fuel systems over time, so to add an octane booster lowered air cooled head temps by 12 -60 degrees F. and removed the ping enough for us to compete with only 2 engines for the season.. We didn't do that great but we had fun for cheap.. I had forgotten all about this entire month of my life. LOL Comment section keeping me real. Cheers.
@@redneckhippiefreak most people on the street just go to the store and back. I wouldn't assume water vs air cooled makes much difference. If you keep oil changes within limits then really what more can you do? I personally change my fluids earlier cause I know I'm harder on my engines than the books recommended intervals
@@redneckhippiefreak he has a point with air cooled bikes running hotter. Clearly in situations where there wouldn't be sufficient air to cool a bike. I.e. prolonged riding within the city
89 octane! In the UK Even our crappy supermarket fuel is 95 octane!
Like your vids, ie no bulldust.Lol.
I read my manual I use what it says.
I've noticed your exhales hit your mic pretty often, have you tried moving it off to the side?
Played with it but my mic is too large so im either buying a new one soon or making a deadcat for it. Working on it for you though ;)
higher is never bad, lower is allways bad.
plain simple.
and no, usually higher octane stuff /usually/ has better addictives too, so never hurts to NOT get the lowest the bike can handle, but get the next highest rating if you can. the "savings" you loose makes no difference to be honest.
and even if you have a 4 stroke engine, a tiny bit of 2t oil is not going to hurt anything.
yet, the extra lube can come handy.
Strictly speaking, the RON is not an octane rating - the ammount of Octane doesn't vary much in modern fuels. But the COMPRESSIBILITY of the fuel does. The RON is a measure of auto-ignition-compression-ratio. Not so much how much octane the fuel contains.
RON for those that don't know, is "Research Octane Number." Or essentially, it means how much Octane-equivalence your fuel has. 98 RON means it can be compressed as a fuel with 98-Octane/02-Heptaine.
You can google or you can do it the old school way: RTFM :)
Fuel! a requirment in most combustion devices!
on another note, im getting a 2 stroke 125 for "townfun" soon :D
ThatWolffe thanks. I'm glad you saved me watching the video to find out the answer was fuel :P
BikeBros lmao! got any 2 stroke videos planned? maybe something about different oil ratios and benefits and disadvantages of 2 stroke engines. :D
Wanna loan me a 2 stroke bike so I can film? But I will look into something that I think would make a fun video
BikeBros I would but sadly I am in England.
+ThatWolffe I missed the note about you getting a bike. Have fun and be safe, but 100% wheelie and green Lane it day 1
Thats a stupid question if you now anything run atleast 89 the fuel today is crap
what country are you from? ireland? south africa? NZ?
Rage Quit87 Ireland. eyeing up a move to nz eventually though ;)
That is definitely not an NZ accent. Hah. Can't say I blame you. We have it pretty good down here. Well, apart from astronomical shipping costs for overseas products due to how far away we are from everything.
In Europe we have 95 or 98 octanes..
rafa cm its quite the same thing. Its just another "unit" of octane.
also 100 or even 102 if you find yourself in germany (;
America has a different fuel to europe or procces
In Finland our 95 has 10% ethanol and it could damage the engine or fuel lines :/ I use 98 or "99 V-power"
the 10% ethanol in most pump gas won't hurt any modern bike, they are designed to use it. If you have some old 40+ year old bike that probably ran on leaded gas then it might be a problem, but simply replacing the fuel lines and seals with modern materials will fix that.
What he said about the ethanol is 100% true you get less mpg so you buy more that's why they are making these e85 vehicles that get less mpg so you spend more money I wish they would publicize that more on the radio all I here is ethanol commercials on the radio
87 Octane? Damn, in Europe, our gaz may be expansive, but at least Regular is 93 to 95, and prenium at least 98...
Or read the manual for the bike and it will tell you what octane to run....
that bike is fucking gorgeous. these were the last GSXR with the best design and pointy clean front end. the ones after 2011 were ugly as fuck with the humongous humpty dumpty front end. I have the pearl white 2009 gsxr600.
anyways, using the minimum recommended gasoline in the owners manual will prevent carbon buildup on the intake and exhaust valves. perfect........but also using this minimum octane in hot weather and hauling ass can cause preignition issues trust me. I use 87 most of the time but if sitting at a light and bike reaches 220 degrees and I then full throttle haul ass, I definitely hear the pops. sounds good I guess but the engine doesn't like it.