What PREMIUM GAS Does To Your Motorcycle! (NOT GOOD!)
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- čas přidán 22. 09. 2020
- What does premium gas with ethanol do to your motorcycle engine? In this video, you can see the results on the pistons and cylinders after ~5800 miles of running 93 octane premium level gasoline with ethanol. Is ethanol free better?
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The title is misleading. Should be Ethanal vs. non-Ethanal gas.
Eth- anal ?
@@denyspoyner4150 In the old days, there was Eth-yl (leaded) and now we have her brother, Eth-anal
@@boomerguy9935 LMAO, I'm old enough to remember fully leaded gas.
@@denyspoyner4150 Do you remember the AMOCO/American Oil Co.'s "clear" premium (high octane) gas that did not have lead? I never knew what they used instead of tetra-ethyl lead. I think the purpose of this "clear" gas was to keep the engine clean and still soften the blow of the valves on their seats. I used to run it in my MG. It was 45 cents/gallon and it got 45 mpg. That's right, a penny a mile. Yes, I'm that old!
@@boomerguy9935 No I don't. I just turned 51 two weeks ago.
Using the word PREMIUM is misleading. I take that word to mean HIGH OCTANE in all gasoline, ethanol and non-ethanol.
I use PREMIUM octane, non-ethanol gas in my motorcycle and my mowers, weed eater and leaf blower. I use REGULAR octane, 10% ethanol in my car and truck.
Your title had me scared that I was doing something wrong first. Please clarify the definition of your terms at the beginning of your videos for slow learners like myself.
Ok boomer
10% ethanol in your vehicle's is killing your motors
Boomer Guy same here
definitely agree. the "Head of blocks" isn't quite up to speed on gasoline. If you got a carburetor and want it to last, better keep the ethanol OUT of it. Shit is like cancer for your engine. But hey, it gives the farmers a reason to grow a shit load of more corn for "eco friendly" fuel.
I feel like the title of the video is kind of misleading. I clicked on this to hear a discussion about why higher octane fuels aren’t good for motorcycles. This is strictly just a conversation about fuel with ethanol. Premium fuel doesn’t contain higher ethanol then regular, it’s strictly just octane rating.
I agree with you - didn’t learn anything about premium from this video - I did learn about emissions control so there is that - but not what I expected
I came here to make this exact statement. Usually around me, premium is the only grade guaranteed to not have ethanol, so the title is almost the exact opposite of what is said.
Grant Bierlmeier well, ethanol boosts octane and is used more in high octane fuel.
Using premium in an engine that doesn't have compression high enough to need it is just a waste, as lower octane fuel actually has more energy than high octane (high ethanol content) gas.
I need 89 in my bike and every once in a while put 93 for the higher additive content, but could just as well buy a well reviewed system cleaner, and would likely gain more from it. Matter of fact, I'll go order one right now.
I agree with everyone else. Consider changing the title. It is quite misleading and suggests a conclusion when the content of the video is more of an open discussion than a definitive instruction. The video itself is top quality and good content as always though. 👍
It’s all about the clicks
Thanks for sharing this Block! No big egos, just a super interesting conversation from people that know their stuff. Learned a few things! I appreciate it
great conversation. nice to hear the techs talk. oh one thing - i must commend you on putting out so many videos. i subscribe to just a few and they have pretty much stop putting them out or just a few a month. i know these are alot of work but just wanted to tell you i appreciate your time. hope you dont burn out as i think others have.
The only thing missing from this conversation was some cold ones. Nice video.
Pete Larrier right? The one thing I was thinking this whole video was goddamn I wish I could sit down and drink a beer with these guys.
100% agree!
Right, it’s rare no good drinks and food in the video lol
👍👌
Sounds like we all need to sit down and discuss some sh*t over a cold one ot three...who’s in?
Ethanol burns cooler than regular gasoline. It requires lower combustion temperatures. Also, it creates a thermodynamic cooling effect that regular gasoline doesn't offer. This is quite beneficial because E85 helps keep the engine cool.
Vent your breathers to a catch can and use ethanol free gas when possible. Alcohol corrodes and deteriorates aluminum, avoid when possible. The carbon on your pistons is most definitely from oil blow by. The white pitting and erosion is from the ethanol.😉
Agreed.
Yep, spot on.
Incorrect on the ethanol. Those are essentially myths. Lifetime mechanic, engineer now, former chem, family & friends also engineers, mechanics incl. ASE Master & GM World Class. Ethanol keeps the fuel clean and dry. These are not boats sitting on the water.
Kool, video man... Lot of knowledge.!!! Thanks for the upload 💯👍👍
This so cleared up some confusion for me about the oil breathing set up for engine's
Good to see this now, I just got a grom last week, and have to swap the frame at some point
Thankfully we have 91 up here in South Dakota ethanol free. Sometimes have to run the blend but try to avoid it 99% of the time. I'm running an S&S air cleaner like yours now Block and it routes blowby down instead of back into the intake so it should help greatly!
Great content and info. Thank you 🙏🏻⚡️🤙🏼🤘🏼
Ethanol free gas isn't an option in my area so I don't even worry about it.
I still want to see a piston with 5000 miles on it that burned nothing by pure gasoline. I suspect it will look very similar.
I suspect similar results. Remember, the build up builds more compression 😂
Also, remember, it's an air cooled motor, the tolerances are looser to account for more thermal expansion, they always have more blow by than a modern watercooled motor.
Great Vid BH . Would have been awesome if Mike and Chris could have shown some diff's on piston condition from
the two differing fuel types., etc. as for my cage and Bike .... Bike has never to my knowledge seen the Canuck ethanol gas. so no issues.... And yeaaa, I stopped using PetroCan gas two yrs ago ....went to Esso.... but the Esso stuff, seems to be wet, so I've added conditioner to the cage tank to hopefully alleviate acceleration issues, etc.
Thanks for the heads-up.
Nice info I started running non ethanol this past weekend with smsoil octane boost with it
Ayeeee Blockhead!! Much love man!
on the west coast, you can't find any gasoline that doesn't contain ethanol. The challenge out here is finding stations that carry fuel with no MORE than 10% ethanol
So I Did Yr 1, 2 & 3 of Marine Tech At Eau Gallie, if there's one thing I learned is to not run alcohol; unless you have an Evinrude (but those aren't commercial 😅)
In Ontario, CA some city gas stations sell 94 Ultra which contains zero Ethanol. Some other brands claim little or no ethanol, but I prefer to stick with a proven product. Your video makes it clear that avoiding ethanol-based fuels is a sound policy.
They said "alcohol" so much that I got some beer while watching this.
Here in Brazil there isn’t ethanol free option. All fuel has at least 25% of ethanol. We call it pissline (mijolina).
Even here in the US it gets harder and harder to find. In FL where I (and Block) live, it is everywhere for all the boats, but when I go on a trip, unless it is up the coast, everything has ethanol.
Brazilian gas kasdjkakdsjakjd
Uma grande merda lasjdkjakdj
In the US "most" gas has at least 10-15%....its stated on all the gas pumps. The ethanol free stations here in NC as least in my area, its only 87 octane that you can get ethanol free....so I would have to get a different tune for my bike, as with a performance tuner they usually advance your ignition, which means you need to run a higher octane fuel that will burn longer....
@@redrider0151 bummer. The place that I go to right by the river has 91ef
For corn fuel: it is undeniably better as race gas, but only as race gas. It sucks for every day use. Do yourself a favor and get a composite fuel tank for newer bikes.
For oil: always run a catch can. Instead of burning it off in the engine, you can dump the collected oil back into the oil tank. Just remember to tune the bike afterwards.
The comments about the "blow-by" should be in a separate video with details about how it used to be, why it got this way and how to modify it so that it is VENTED TO THE ATMOSPHERE in an EXTERNAL CRANKCASE VENTILATION SYSTEM. There is a ton of info out there on this. I vent mine to the atmosphere on my Sportster and it cost me less than $10. There are some expensive and fancy mods out there which I consider unnecessary, but they are there if you like extra bling.
In the old days, a lot of people vented this to drip on the drive chain -- a little messy, but it worked.
Before the days of the PCV valve, there was a catch can in cars which had to be emptied and cleaned periodically. Same thing as these mod's available.
Luckily our premium unleaded fuel here in Australia doesn’t contain ethanol. It’s labeled as E10. Our premium 98RON is equivalent to your US 93 dead dinosaurs but no Ethanol
Two Dogs I’ve got a Yamaha MT-01. I tried premium 98 and it stalls. Back to 91 and purrs like a kitten with no fuelling problems. Just pointing out higher octane is as bad as E10 for a big bore (1800cc) V twin.
TeensierPython - yeah but it’s not premium. Premium is as bad as E10 on account it burns hotter and doesn’t suit the tune of a big bore bike.
Standard ordinary 91octane is the right stuff... not E10, not 98.
@Ryan L 91 to 93 you should be fine. 89 in emergency aka no higher octane on your long ride. Just make sure to put in higher fuel at next fill up. Higher octane like 98 and up is bad for your bike.
Enjoy listening to people talk bike shop
Thanks for making the video
Ethanol is really popular in performance applications because of its octane content and knock resistance. The biggest contributer to carbon build up is oil burning. This is why oil catch cans are becoming so popular. Ethanol gets such a bad rep because it creates a jelly like substance when it sits for long periods and clogs up fuel systems.
👍 finally 🙌
Not an ethanol fan but around Houston it’s hard to find ethanol free gas. Used it one time on a trip in Arkansas and my fuel mileage jumped significantly on my Street Glide. Good convo and a good vid.
Hey I’m from Houston too! Buccees is the only place I know of that has it
Fast Lane 15 exactly! I go to the one on I-45 in Texas City every chance I get.
Nice conversation but it had no conclusion on what options to keep those pistons clean if you have no choice other than gas with ethanol.
I ran Sunoco 260 in my Pans and slab side Shovels. Those were the days.
It really depends. Most racers use E85 Bc less chance of detonation and you make more power and tq. Yes you use double but E85 is also cheaper so it equals out. I only use it in my sti
Here in Argentina our premium fuel is 98RON (without ethanol) equivalent to 93 of the U.S.A.
The new Harley manual says to use 93 or 98ron equivalent and I saw many times in your videos that you used 89.
What brand octane boost you using during your non ethanol test? How are you measuring it when you fill up?
I knew I had Mike as an instructor. I was thinking the whole time he looks and sounds so familiar. Wicked smart dude.
Here in Tampa the only ethanol-free gas we have is 89 octane. Do you think I'm better off running that or 91 octane with e10?
There is ethanol in all of the grades of gas around me except the diesel gas. So I always just run the premium and it doesn't cost much more on a motorcycle.
I would like to see you test the pingol push button shifting kit on your bike.
Don't forget that all of the rubber that comes in contact with the fuel is also designed for gasoline and not ethanol. Higher percentages of ethanol extract oils from gaskets and fuel hoses which add to the deposits. Good info by the way. Gotta see if that gas station that used to carry aviation fuel still sells it.
ever wonder why so many cars are catching fire these days, cause people are using ehtanol in cars that are not setup for it to save $ as its cheaper but the O-rings and seals are deteriorating, fuels leaks - bang !
I’m gonna have to agree with Erick @baggerbro on this one. The only pro literally to throwing the oil in to motor is for epa purposes and because it’s cheaper for manufacturing. I’m sure it’s cheaper to say “oh let’s just dump oil back into the engine and tune it according to that” it’s more expensive for Harley to actually manufacture bikes with an external breather system to avoid dump oil into an engine. Solution, have a tuner and an external breather system. Or leave it and forget it. In the end it’s not necessary but instead just lazy and cost saving really. But what do I know.🤷♂️
Thank you!
I run 94 octane non ethanol in my Harley and my Suzuki from Chevron here in Canada. That is all that goes into my bikes
i have the vstack and external breather that you installed on the 48 a while back from DK customs and have it mapped with the dynojet 2 into 1 and intake map. I've been running 93 for over 5k miles... should i stop and just run regular?
Learned long ago,NEVER trust an oil injection pump. Pre mix all your gas or bring oil with you.
Just my two cents, but I prefer non-ethanol and so does my old carbed bike. It just seems to run better. At an extra 50 cents a gallon it is more expensive and harder to find, but with a 3 gallon tank it ain’t bad!
I was running 76 gas for years, switched to Chevron and not only do I get way better mileage but the vehicles all run better and its actually cheaper overall due to the mileage difference.
I would be curious to see a comparison between say Honda/Yamaha/H.D./ and maybe Triumph same miles same gas.
I'm thinking it might be related to material used in piston manufacturing.
Bet big time there would be surprising differences .
At first I was filling non etahnol fuel, 89 octane. And I ran it without any octane booster. Manuals says 90 octane but the compression ratio on stock 107s isn't that high that it's a big deal. Then after the 93 dead dino's jingle, I started being more accepting of the 10% or so ethanol. I've done that on the last 3 fill ups or so. I now think about switching back to non ethanol. Thanks block, eric, and the techs. This debate never dies. Because we keep fueling it 🤣 Good luck everyone. I am no combustion expert but those pistons didn't look pretty. Quite the buildup for 6k miles. Maybe the factory banks on stage upgrades to keep the pistons fresh
Damn wonder what my pistons look like after 41000 miles on my 16 S I always use premium but not sure how much f it was ethenal free, keep up the good work block
Put a Camera down the Spark plug hole..
If I have been running standard 93 dead dinosaurs and switched to ethanol free with an octane boost additive on a carbureted engine, would I have better performance or am I asking for problems? Especially coming into colder months?
I run 93 “Clear” Gas (ethanol free) on both my 2019 ScramblerXE 1200 and 2017 Heritage Classic 103. The fuel station is two blocks from my house!
That's convenient
What octane does the stock HD require? If you use gas with too high octane than necessary it will carbon up, but gasohol does suck. If something produces less energy per unit volume it will not produce the same heat either. Heat is a form of energy. The biggest problem with ethanol is that it absorbs water and is corrosive to parts in the fuel system.
So did they suggest to run an additive to help with stopping the ethanol issues??? We have a LOT of guys who run additives or will mix a bit of 110 octane everytime they fill up...
VERY interesting information in this and should put alot of rumors to rest
Here in the UK our normal petrol octane is 95, I've never had much coking issues on my bikes. Every now and then I add the 98 octane but the difference is minimal.
European octane rating is different than here in the USA
The reason for it is resistance to knock. It burns slower than gasoline and reduces predetonation. It helps keep the cost at the pump down cuz it is expensive to make premium gas. It 10% does not make that much of an impact. Run a fuel system cleaner every so often and it will kepp.ant deposits to a minimum
And if it was that bad they wouldn't have desined E85 which is 85%ethanol. I know a guy running a performance subaru wrx on E85 getting over 500 to the wheels no problem
Redlight has an additive to put in E85 one guy said I can still read the logo on the pistons. Surely this product should also be available in the US?
BOSTON MIKE!!!!!! He knows more than we've forgotten
I was chocked when i so the 131 install on your bike the pistons was bad, anyway i se you in US use 93 octane and have E10 standar for the gasoline that is killing the bike ;(. I live in Norway and here we have E5 standar also less ethanol in the gas and we only have 95 octane and 98 octane and i alway fill 98 octane and it sems good i think but i have not had a look at the pistons for ages so i don't know but i think it is pretty okey.
We also have some called American Car Club of Norway that is amcar entusiasts for for older american cars and they fight every day so we can get ethanol free gasoline and it seem we maybe wil get that option in 2221 :)
Anyway i so "Her Two Weel's" filled gas and i so one pump had a choice to buy ethanol free gasoline or am i wrong it was marked with an blue color the pump?
I was told to run premium octane non oxy fuel in my sportster. Only few gas stations around here that are high octane non oxy and ethanol free
I put premium in now should I switch to non ethanol?
Nice video guys. Thanks for your contribution. I was told to always put premium (91 octane or above) in my bike. I have a stage 2 (torque) 2021 Ultra Limited that has spark knocking issues under load around 2700-2800 rpms, 6th gear. The dealership had my bike for over two months. They said the pistons were already covered in carbon. They had 3 different techs flown out from Milwaukee to try to diagnose. All parts are HD as well as labor. Harley is recommending an auto tuner ($730 for tuner/labor) and they can't guarentee that it'll fix the issue. I picked up my bike because it didn't sit right with me that I should pay that since everything is still under warrenty. Could you guys share some proffessional advice?
Did you ever figure anything out on that ultra?
@@daddydiesel5889 Sadly, no. I have a hearing next month with the motor company.
@@TheTim380ibew wow interesting, are you able to tell me the whole story?
What about Harleys internal breather system vs external breather system. The oil internal system blows sn oil mist onto the pistons causing carbon deposits.
Totally confused, new to motorcycle riding the manual said 93% premium and that is what I AM DOING, IS THIS WRONG?
My 998cc Yamaha makes 125hp at the wheel running 11.4:1 compression and runs on 87 octane E10 perfectly fine. I do run ‘top tier’ gas only as it has much better detergents added, there’s much more to it than ‘ethanol vs non-ethanol’.
What is the compression ratio of a new M8?? Do they need to run premium fuel??
So how much octane boost do I need if I run octane free and it is not 93?
M8 breather system sucking that oil mist. Mmmm. 🥴
Thanks EPA 😤
Glad we have non-ethanol premium here. I run it in everything except my Toyota pickup. Even all my small motors.
You guys should talk to engenering explaind, and his take on ethanol gas
Which brand fuel additive you guys use in your motorcycles? Chevron, Seafoam...?
Seafoam
Ethanol DOES NOT burn hotter than gasoline. Just because these guys have been turning wrenches does not mean they've taken the time to educate themselves about the properties of different fuels, especially "Harley People". Ethanol is well known by any decent tuner, and anyone inclined to research the subject with some reading, to reduce combustion temperatures in engines. That is one of the reasons you can run so much more boost on a FI engine with it, also it's octane rating is at least 105. One way to describe octane is that it's a fuel's resistance to pre-ignition, the higher the number the more compression it can take and not ignite itself. Deposits on the pistons can be cleaned, it's really not a big deal. I'd also suspect that you have most of those deposits from the breather recirculation system HD uses, and probably some blow-by considering the looser tolerances air cooled engines need to be built to. Fun to watch this circle of BS, but it's not good info for people trying to learn.
What, if any, Octane Booster should be used with "Non-Ethanol" Gasoline?
Not just premium fuel has ethanol. All grades have ethanol, unless it specifically says otherwise.
Ethanol usage today is a gimme to the corn farmers. However, ethanol (called Ethyl) USED to be sold as fuel directly as early as 1908, as the Ford Model T could run on either ethanol or gasoline.
So did HD themselves say that their tunes factor in the oil blow- by getting re introduced to the throttle body ? Where's the data from ?
In my area the non ethanol gas is 87 octane can I put that low octane in my bike?
I NEED THIS TO BE A PODCAST! lol
5,000 Miles did u have Map for your exhaust ?
So why does my Harley Sportsters (2019) owners manual say run 91 then? I am just gonna stick to what my owners manual says. I had a 2005 sportster (carbed) and it's owners manual said run 87 which I did. I run 93 on the 2019 (my local gas station near my house has 93 instead of 91). If I am not mistaken it's because of the higher compression than carbed bikes.
I was told run 93 or highest available, so that's what I've always done. I've also been taught higher octane is lower ethanol. I know my local Exxon the 93 octane is 10% ethanol.
So here is a dumb question living here in California and being a new rider (March 2020) what is the best fuel grade for me to run on my HD ?
Personally I would go with the highest octane - least amount of ethanol fuel you can find. But what do I know.... LOL. Reading the comments though, that is what most people are suggesting.
Appreciate that bro
Now here is a question. Where I live it’s incredibly difficult to get pure gas. What is the thinking of mixing the pure gas (when I can get it) with the ethanol gas that’s at every pump around me ??? Help or hurt ???
No such thing as “pure gas” unless you’re talking about Naptha.
Misleading for most of the world... Premium means high octane here in Australia.
same here in the usa, just a bad title for the video
The carbon is definitely more from the oil breather/ gasoline than it is the ethanol. Personally have witnessed many engines taken apart that have ran full e85 and the pistons have always had just a brown coloration to them. Ethanol is alcohol. Alcohol is a solvent and has cleaning properties. I can’t wait till you look at the pistons on the 131” rubbing that staight 89 octane with the octane booster additive you use.
All gas has cleaning additives.
This is not fully due to fuel. The M8 motors burn oil. All of them. Thats left over oil buring on top of piston. Watch the video from walking tall where Danny from Zippers explains it with a microscope.
Also, Doc is the best.
Exactly!!!
My Yamaha Pistons look exactly the same It's from ethanol It's not from any leaking oil.
Right, some of this that you are seeing is from oil being sucked into the engine from the egr/breather system as well. That dark junk on your pistons is not due to ethanol.... kind of misleading here. At 4:10, he starts talking about what I am talking about. Get an external breather or catch can system from someone like DK customs...
My brand new stock 2022 114ci. Had the breather bypass done at the first mile on it. My engine will Not be eating its own poop!. Even if I just put slip on's mufflers on her the harley stock ECM has a 10% variance mapped in so it won't ever run lean!.
Where did you get your sissy bar for your 2020 Lowrider?
So what should I be putting in my bike?? I have been letting her drink 93 when she's thirsty...
Premium fuel actually cleans up the engine and ove always used premium and I always check the pistons when I change spark plugs but I guess it's Honda's so they run better
Well there is ethanol premium and non ethanol premium.... It's the ethanol premium they are referring too that dirty's it up
Premium fuel doesn’t clean the engine. It’s strictly just octane rating, no added detergents or anything in premium
Erick: the conversatiom on the group chat was
Bike on the back: the conversation was EXHAUST EXHAUST!!!
*TheRock's bike shows up: IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE CONVERSATION OF THE GROUP CHAT WAS!!! *POTATO POTATO POTATO
In Australia our top fuel is 98 and the lowest is 91 with ethanol
My owners manual says to use 91 to 93 octane. Also Harley dealer themselves says use 91 to 93 octane. So premium gas does not ruin the motor.
I would ask why you let some cuss words go and others are edited but if you edited all cuss words, this conversation would sound like it's constantly buffering...lol.
Awesome conversation!!!!
So.....what's the end-of-conversation concesus? Ethanol more for race cars/bikes?
Have you looked at the new pistons for comparison yet? I searched but couldn’t find the video
Living in Nebraska we have a lot of ethanol but we are pretty lucky I guess cause it’s still pretty easy to find 91 ethanol free gas at the pump. We have been told for a long time to not use ethanol in our bikes.
Stevy!!! You better get back to making content!
Trey Lewis I’m on it!
Unfortunately around here it’s almost impossible to get gas that doesn’t have alcohol. Fortunately I’m in a situation where I can work around it with my bike but a lot of people can’t afford to order 50 gallons of fuel off the internet
Hmm, I wonder if it would be beneficial to just use non ethanol gasoline when storing vehicles
If ethanol free is not available, is there a recommended additive to help?
@ william - yup , it is called moonshine .
just make it happy .
The title should have been: What Ethanol Gas Does to your motorcycle engine.
I didn't even know non ethanol was an option. I'm in Chicago and the closest station that offers it is 40 miles away though. 😑
Sebastian Ziernicki worth it. Absolutely worth it.
E-85 is where it’s at. You just need a good tuner which I have 💪🏽
Yeah I'm under the assumption that all pumps around my way contain ethanol 7% regardless of octane (93, etc) I'm not even sure where to find straight gasoline
I am in Florida. Wawa usually has it
@@dzeledonzeledon5843 I'm in Mass and every pump around me has up to 7% ethanol
IMO the oil coming from the breather ports being burnt in the combustion exasperates the carbon build up and is the main cause of the carbon build up. Feuling now has an oil fill/dipstick breather for the Milwaukee 8 engines.
I looked into it. Is the fueling oil vent system recommend for blowby on built/modified engines? Or is it recommended on stock bikes as well? I also read somewhere that fueling recommended conventional oil over synthetic. I got Syn 3 on my first service but I am still not sure if that's a good oil for all 3 holes
@@chrisdawson8252 It's good for the engine. It's group IV and V synthetic, PAO and alkyld based synthetics. Run HD Heavy Synthetic 80w-140 in the Primary and gearbox. You can go 10k on the primary and 20k miles on the gearbox with the Heavy Syn in the other 2 boxes that don't have combustion residues in them from burning gas.