BEST Victoria 3 Laws: Power Structure
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
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0:00 Intro
6:25 Governance Principles
9:29 Distribution of Power
15:44 Citizenship/ Church & State
21:05 Bureaucracy
22:16 Army Model
30:10 Internal Security
34:55 Summary
Tags:
Strategy Games, Victoria 3, Interest Groups, Economics, Production Methods, Colonization, Playing Tall, Landowners, Industrialists, Armed Forces, Intelligentsia, Carthage, Hannibal Barca, Suez Canal, Ottoman Empire, France, Russia, Universities, Canning, Arms Manufacturing, Quinine, Malaria, Rifling, Tooling Industry, Clippers, Small Arms, Cannons, Timber, Iron, Soft Wood, Hard Wood, Migration, Encouraging Migration, Customs Union, North Africa, Multiculturalism, Mercantilism, Oligopoly, Hannibal Barca, Colonization, Greener Pastures Edict, Maps, Resources, Japan, Nippon, Shogunate, Automation, Revolution, Civil War
Starting Steps, How to, Starting a Game, Beginning - Hry
One thing to note about National Guard: It is effectively capped at level 3 because the other two laws give inherent +2 max investment bonuses which National Guard lacks. So you can't get any higher than +1.5% conscription from it. Also worth noting that Secret Police gives twice the movement radicalism bonus as National Guard, and from experience it adds up. This is a deceptively strong bonus since a movement with radicalism under 50% won't become a revolution and a revolution with radicalism under about 80-90 (variable because of event RNG) won't become a civil war. For this reason I do find Secret Police to be competitive with Guaranteed Liberties even setting aside the suppression bonus.
Secret police also gives the best bonus options in events
One important thing to note is that you need a party that has gotten votes before you can use single party state. I tried messing around with the debug menu and found out that igs get 0 legitimacy if you move from say oligarchy to single party state, despite your ig having over 30% clout
Also worth noting that with secret police you actually get quite a few events or event options that you wouldn't be able to pick without secret police which often make managing revs easier
Yeah this was a surprise to me when I had to stay on it for a while - def made some seemingly nonsensical events make more sense in terms of options
@@generalistgaming if you're a low revenue country in the early game dodging that robbery event with secret police feels so amazing
You are like a great reporter. In print, the the most succinct and valuable information should be the first paragraph. You did that by 1:09. Huzzah, Big Nice.
Eh, it's good for communicating information, but it's probably bad for CZcams - "We are going to review EACH law, make sure you stay tuned for Church and State because the BEST law might SURPRISE you!" or teasing info w/o giving it is probably "better"
Life dictated by The Algorithm is hell. I'll be enjoying how you present and discuss information about the games we like until the heartless machine mediating this comes along to punish us for being humans instead of advert fodder.
Generalist laying down the laws.
"Human souls are the most important resource in victoria 3, and getting more souls is going to be more valuable" is going to be my favorite way to explain to my friends how the game works from now on.
It do be like that though
I'd say, an important thing to keep in mind when wanting to shift to Suffrage is to know your current clout of IGs.
Sometimes going to Census Suffrage before Universal is better. One man, one vote might seem awesome but if you go too trigger happy and shift from wealth voting to that directly, you might end up with a government full of farmers and the trade union :D
Yeah I think I say somewhere that Census might be better
My thoughts:
- Monarchy is not optimal but will probably require a revolution to get rid of which is somewhat unique as laws go.
- Technocracy has a hidden bonus with strong landowners. Going to landed voting and then finding an autocrat leader and switching to technocracy will allow you to go to anywhere from there once the autocrat is gone as it's -2! Landowners will even support census suffrage at that point.
- Ethnostate is quite strong for China/Japan if you are not expanding much as the bonuses are quite good. China is an exception to many laws of course.
- State religion can be useful in situations where it's hard to find a legitimate government without relying on the devout. The devout are usually ok with good economic laws so it might be a better option to keep them strong as they can use peasants for clout.
- The odd part of hereditary bureaucrats is that it can be useful early on if you have strong aristocrats but want a strong intelligentia. Despite the bonus from appointed bureaucrats it can't compare to actually getting more support from the aristocrats directly.
- National milita can also be used instead of 100 barracks in capital method for revolutions. Just declare an irrelevant war first and then raise up to 100 conscripts. You don't even have to pay for them normally! How useful national milita is also depends on how fast you can raise troops. I get the impression that it changed at some point since in some cases it seemed very slow, but right now it can be useful.
- Internal security seems like the most balanced law category of all. Conscripts can be useful and less radicalism and better suppression are both very helpful in some situations. More loyalists might be better when things are good, but less radicalism is better when things are bad!
Cultural Exclusion works for Western countries with “colonial” pops who share a cultural trait but not a heritage. Ie USA Afro-Americans, Spanish countries Afro-Carbieños, etc. It would also work in some Asian (continent) countries like China or Iran if I’m not mistaken.
Cultural Exclusion becomes valuable if your primary culture has any of the following traits:
Anglophone, Francophone, Hispanophone, Lusophone, Caucasian, Turkic, Arab-speaking, West African, Iranian-Turanian, Mongolian Language, Tai, Himalayan, or Sinosphere
Really appreciate giving us a quick run-down in the intro for reference
I had some luck with a technocracy strat in one of my games had a movement early on and it helped me empower the industrialists enough for no migration restrictions, and then the intellegentsias to get off of monarchy with some lucky breaks with Springtime Of The People JEs turning INT and Rural Folk to Radicals so i could breeze by on laws and legitimacy until it was time to empower the Trade Unions.
Yup! I need to experiment more w/ the law but I do think it's useful for transitioning
I often go Secret Police early, more as a means to an end. It's easier to get the other laws you want without a revolution if you have home affairs at level 4 and a 40% reduction to political movement radicalism. Once I have the other laws in place, then I switch to guaranteed liberties. Depends on the run - sometimes if it falls that I have an easy switch to guaranteed liberties I do that anyway - if you have enough loyalists then maybe no interest group goes to -10.
That's fair - I could look at it as being more a transitional law. Def had some struggles getting off it in the past
I second this, Secret Police is REALLY nice for preventing revolutions
paradox we need more laws!
Hi Generalist, at ~26min you talk about Peasant Levies dissalowing some PMs in Your armies but you are not sure what PMs tha
That's right, thank you. Yeah, that is a law that is super hard to test what's best I think
Have you seen the ‘Art of Bulling countries to back down’ video by Data Timelapse’s? Would be interesting to know your thoughts on the potential value per infamy you could get compared to your ‘best places to expand’ guide
Just saw this comment but had linked that video on my discord 10 hrs ago - I thought the thing about how certain strategies were much more likely to back down was very interesting! I don't dig through the code much so it's easy for me to miss this type of stuff. I do think it's not really comparable to my vid in that my vid is a strategic planning thing and his is tactical execution. I do think putting in wargoals for infamy and not inforcing in order to force back downs is a mistake tho
one thing i noticed recently is that a lot of your early game clout for the intelligentsia is from aristocrats. so weakning them early can be bad. u can check this buy changing from hert bureaucrats to appointed early game the severely cuts the intelligentsias power.
I don't know about the Technocracy transition strat as it is hated unless you have postivist, if you are going to get be hated anyway rather i go to universal
I think usually this ends up being better, but that it's important to note that it's easier (I believe) to demarginalize TU's under Technocracy because they aren't missing out on votes early on, which is an aspect of universal if you're marginalized. Going Techno, demarginalizing, and then going Universal/Census is more or less what I'm suggesting here.
My concern with the strat would be tech rather than ideology. Technocracy requires Central Archives, which is an Era 2 tech that only the "cutting edge" (as described in the script comments) nations start with. Census Suffrage and below requires only Democracy, which is an Era 1 tech that nearly every playable nation starts with (Universal requires Egalitarianism). So most of the countries which start with the ability to go Technocracy also start with some kind of voting law, meaning the maneuver is less of a "transitionary" step and more of a clear backwards movement (that, yes, will be opposed by pretty much every IG unless you do get some Positivists and maybe Authoritarians). It might be viable for countries like Prussia and Paraguay (yes, Paraguay starts with Central Archives, it needs it for the Secret Police) which do start on Autocracy, but I feel like the tech requirement prevents it from being more of a niche strat for specific countries like that.
I like how the industrialist party called Free trade party while their leader has protective Idolgy
Free Trade enthusiasts have kind of always been "Free Trade" enthusiasts, tbf
Hey, have you heard about the new upcoming game Gilded Destiny?
It looks like Victoria 3 and might interest you
It's closer to Victoria 2 in many ways , but I still think it's interesting project
I have! I haven't taken too close a look yet though
I wonder how big impact have National Guard on diplo plays, maybe is worth take if AI will give up or not join to enemy if you have bigger military str.
I don't understand, how do you prevent great powers from siding against you in early-mid game? They almost always side against me in diplo plays. Even though i have full relations with them, trade agreements etc
They'll side a lot if they have good attitudes towards the target or specific strategic aims which isn't very transparent to the player and is somewhat tedious to check. They defend unrecognized powers a lot less. I do a lot of cheese that just prevents them from siding entirely (waiting for them ot be involved in a big play, being on their side in another play, declaring on an ally of my real target, etc)
@@generalistgaming okay thanks
I wanna see you try the economic and financial mod(E&F) v3 and do a tutorial for it
i really like preserving the devout as a late-game interest group. they're not too hard to please. but if you go total sep, i find that you usually permanently delete them as there's no way to roll that law back once you marginalize them. often what i do is go free conscience, switch to the secular pms for a while, and later give the priests their jobs back.
I think the play pattern of using Punjab/Chinese states as pop batteries for your countries is more valuable than the devout bonus being good, or that's how I look at it
@@generalistgaming those pops are definitely a juicy treat, but many tags do still have access to them under free conscience! religions europeans have to settle for suckling on russia which is not nearly as nourishing
can you explain to me how the f do trade unions gain power ?
Every other intrest groop is easy to make them powerful
But Trade Unionist seems to be random .
Research socialism, start bolstering them, when they become unmarginalized enact universal suffrage, and try to have as much laborers as possible at industrial buildings' (laborers from agricultural buildings' joints rural folks or you can enact commercialized agriculture for better clout)
I have a video on this that will be slightly outdated (as stuff like homesteading I think is better for TUs and farmers can become TUs unlike before?) but still give a good idea
@@generalistgaming i would say commercialized agriculture is more better for TUs, once you enact it all low strata pops that employed in rural areas will be under TUs clout
Isnt monarchy best after you are done with changing laws?
No, because it's hard to have the people you want have high clout and approval, and you can't remove bad rulers very easily.
My top tier list laws for any run are:
Presidential Republic
Single-Party State
Ethnostate (you can't play anything below if you are making the truly fascist government, right?)
State Religion (church is always stonks with +5% birth rate, except you have some other modifier on devout)
Elected Bureaucrats
Professional Army
Secret Police (dissent must be suppressed)
Is it correct to say Trade Unionists or just Trade Unions? 🤔
No idea
I'm pretty sure both work
At what point does LF become poorer choice of law compared to Co-operative ownership?
If you run out of peasants then the marginal value of the extra construction from LF is much lower so that's one time where LF is less good. The other one is that there is a scaling modifier on investment pool efficiency which gradually reduces the rate of return from your investment pool once your economy is sufficiently large, once this modifier is significant then the extra investment pool contribution from LF becomes less useful (I rarely play lategame with large economies so I'm unsure where the inflection point is for this)
@@rabidfurify I have a bad pc so I roleplay nationalist, so that i dont get migration. You need much less construction that way. When you fully electrify the country, you want to go command economy asap. Not even co op as they still get investment pool. You need to spend the money in the investment pool or it will very bad for you if they keep amassing. One of the reasons ai economies suck. (and traditionalism blows as you don;t need farms in an economy filled with peasants). Anyway I seriously doubt the people designing the game have any idea what they are doing... As long you change nation and look at the enormous investment pools of the ai you would understand that investment pools need a limit like the treasury.
The "def worse" threshold is like high 800m GDP from a money standpoint (unless Qing, maybe), but there are other reasons you might want to go coop earlier.
I always go for and stand on wealth voting. I'm usually playing minor nations so I keep industrializing till late game and it's just the best for that. I have in my mind going for some sufferage, but 1936 comes faster than time for that xD
Wealth/Census feel better on smaller countries than bigger ones tbf
I would like to see a refute manifest of destiny mexico run some day. I always get steamroll by the usa
I think I did this in the Mexico run on stream? That's a while back though
Council Republic
What I don't like about elected bureaucrats is that it makes your bureaucrats join the petite burgeoisie more compared to inteligentsia.
It's kinda historically accurate tho
I am commenting so the algorithm bolsters your clout.
Based
Discrimination and migration needs work. Going the same laws every game is repetitive.
Agreed - the decision to tradeoff authority for radicalism (sans migration considerations) is interesting. It's why I liked 1.5.5 which allowed discriminatory migration
@@generalistgaming FYI the migration rework is slated for 1.6 currently, next week's DD is going to specifically be about the changes being made
I know presidential republic isn't great but I refuse to play USA any other way.
I also prefer monarchy for Britain as it ruins your amazing flag (which makes zero sense) and queen Victoria is a pretty good leader.
you are half wrong on how assimilation works. you cannot assimilate wrong culture pops (which i agree is dumb) but you can ONLY convert discriminated religions. which is why I don't like total separation. i like freedom of conscience as it allows all those Sunni Bulgarians to become orthodox Bulgarians in my great russia.. oh you got it rignt later.
Why in the world have the armed forces formes the agraian party? Issent that the rural folks thing?😂