Attachment Theory Beyond Therapy: Seth Allison on Wisdom and Connection
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- Dr. John Vervaeke engages in an in-depth conversation with Seth Allison, a practicing psychotherapist, to discuss attachment theory, Internal Family Systems (IFS), and their implications for mental health and relationships. The two experts start off by exploring Seth's personal journey into psychotherapy and the influences that led him to attachment theory. As they unravel the nuances of secure and anxious attachments, the pair also discuss the impact of attachment styles on relationships, parenting, and mental health interventions. With Seth sharing personal struggles and professional insights, the episode becomes an enlightening blend of narrative and knowledge. The conversation ventures into the realms of dialogical practices and wisdom cultivation, touching upon the emotional and physiological aspects of human bonding.
Resources
Seth Allison
Grow Collective: www.growcollective.com/
LinkedIn: / seth-allison-13abb811b
John Vervaeke
Website: johnvervaeke.com/
Patreon: / johnvervaeke
Facebook: / vervaekejohn
X: / vervaeke_john
CZcams: / @johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation: vervaekefoundation.org/
Workshops
Wise Attachment - Sunday, November 12th, 2023 - 10:00am to 12:00pm EST - Event and Registration Link: awakentomeaning.com/event/wis...
IFS Workshop - Sunday, December 10th, 2023 - 10:00am to 12:00pm EST - Event and Registration Link: awakentomeaning.com/event/ifs...
Books
Assessing Adult Attachment: A Dynamic-Maturational Approach to Discourse Analysis - Patricia McKinsey Crittenden, Andrea Landini: www.amazon.com/Assessing-Adul...
Timecodes
00:00:00 - Dr. John Vervaeke introduces Seth Allison and sets the stage for the episode.
00:01:01 - Seth shares his journey into psychotherapy and its influences.
00:08:38 - Seth discusses the concept of an infant's experience of hunger.
00:10:00 - Introduction to the three steps of understanding attachment theory.
00:16:20 - A deep dive into the concept of information processing in attachment.
00:20:29 - Vervaeke highlights the cultural misconceptions surrounding attachment as dependence.
00:30:15 - Seth Allison describes the emotional regulation between a mother and her child.
00:35:40 - Discussion on disconnection from internal data in children.
00:40:30 - John Vervaeke shares his personal realization of having an anxious attachment style.
00:43:20 - Seth gives a practical example of attachment anxiety in relationships.
00:51:40 - Discussion on how culture can misreward attachment strategies.
00:54:58 - Seth opens up about his personal struggles with mental health.
00:57:40 - Seth talks about the change in his approach to therapy.
01:03:40 - The conversation ventures into Emotion-Focused Therapy (EFT).
01:09:18 - John introduces the concept of false normativity.
01:12:10 - Exploring the role of relationships in personal growth.
01:14:00 - Announcement of a Part 2 episode focusing on dialogical practices.
01:19:00 - Vervaeke hints at a future discussion about ally work and IFS.
This conversation is profoundly important right now. As a new therapist entering the field (I practice AEDP) it is very concerning how many other therapists outright reject the attachment prespective. I honestly see many are afraid of being vulnerable and are defending against their own attachment wounds. I'd be so bold as to say the future of psychotherapy (in my opinion) must be attachment oriented, and the evidence will continue to show that people heal and grow faster and with more generalizability when the therapist and client create a secure attachment.
No, this is complete nonsense, saying pain is the first thing people experience.
That is the original sin concept from religion repackaged.
Light entering the eyes, and wind on the skin is not painful.
They are just new senses that we have no understanding of.
Once we learn and understand the senses they are what they are, but if you are not experiencing pain from keeping your eyes open this is trash from the start.
@@noahabraham8701 You are misunderstanding completely. "Attachment wounds" are not pain experiences from physical birth, they are wounds of the lack of attunement of the caregiver towards their child. They are emotional wounds that develop over time, that affect the character of the individual and how they interact with the world. It is the pattern of a caregiver not being able to meet the needs of their child in subtle ways that cause the child to have to adapt their natural needs to protect themselves. It has been empirically demonstrated many times over the attachment styles that young children take on to survive in these environments.
I also practice AEDP! I just graduated with an MSW and have a job as a therapist, and I found an AEDP certified clinician to do my supervision. It’s cool to find others that use this model when I’m simply reading comments on the videos I enjoy in my free time.
I just did the workshop with Seth, which was just wonderful. Now I have come here to revisit the topic. Thank you both for your insightful and touching talk.
This stuf is absolutely golden. The part about how unexamined emotional attachment strategies leads moral evaluations that does not take into account the present relation, that you are engaged in, right now, with another person - that is so clearly articulated by these men and so important. thank you, an inspiration
Wow, as a long time follower of your channel, this was one of the most valuable conversations for me.
I would appreciate to have more conversations like this one. Conversations that go deep into philosophical and cognitive rabbit holes are definitely insightful and also a passion of mine. However, this conversation, while maybe not reaching platonic levels of abstraction and insight, had a much greater impact on a personal level.
Maybe it would be nice if there were different labels/titles/thumbnail styles for at the one hand videos which go deep into philosophical and cognitive matters but not very directly of practical use for mental health / counseling, and at the other hand videos more focused on psychology and helpful in daily mental health struggles that many suffer from in our time. Just an Idea.
Bless you for all your work, glad you reached the 100K subs!
I've seen a lot of Voices with Vervaeke, and they're all great, but this was the most productive and practically useful conversation I've seen so far. Honestly probably one of the most useful pieces of media I've seen/read since Notes from the Underground by Dostoevsky
Would love to see more about attachment theories and the differences between each and how they interact with perceptions and relevance realisations.
Holy fucking shit this conversation is wild. I'm two thirds in and I already feel that I'm not the same person as the one who pressed play on it.
This is the episode I've always wished for. IFS!
I’ve been learning lately about the physicist David Deutsch’s work on Taking Kids Seriously, TCS. You’ve just taken it down to the level of the newborn and my mind is boggled!
Thank you both. And thanks in particular for addressing the "attachment paradox."
Thank you so much. Very profround. Touched by the selfrevealing of the therapist, as an enhancement of the therapy. Looking forward to the next!
Truly educational. Looking forward to part two.
This video alone, and I love a lot of your videos John, will surely change the direction of my life. I am going to be Father soon and I can't thank you enough for having these conversations. What an amazing guest.
Absolutely powerful, the abundance of empathy between these two men.
Loved this so much. Keep it coming!!!!
I found this conversation affirming and interesting thank you both. I especially resonated with the parts about self-disclosure in therapy (I'm a coach) , and am intrigued by the notion of 'place' in attachment theory. When regardless of good/indaquate care giving - the arena is unsafe, threatening or insecure and would love to hear more about that in part 2.
I found myself crying a lot during this episode and I wasn't really sure why. My mother is schizophrenic/bipolar. Or maybe a mystic. Either way she spent much of mine and my siblings' childhood unmedicated. Upon reflection, the tears came from somewhere. Anyway thank you, gave me a lot to think about. Especially compulsive caretaking, I felt extremely connected to that idea. I've only recently been able to really sense how my body is feeling at any given time. Anyway. Seth really has the soothing voice thing down!
I’m very glad to hear that it connected for you in such a profound way. Thank you.
Listened to this on the podcast. What a wonderfully insightful discussion, looking forward to part 2
At 46min the strategy sounds like a 10th step spot check inventory. I'm loving the insights ❤️🙏 thank you!
Thank you! Excited for the next part of this series!
Beautiful conversation. The fact that home-base and/or attachment affords liberty was the highlight of this conversation for me. This maps very well to my personal therapeautic practice: I'm a manual therapist, and one of the things I try to build in my patients is a sort of ''dynamic stability'' in a body region, a stability they can lean on so whichever part is hurting gains the support it needs for optimal, freem movement, without the need for excessive fatigue, tension or pain. I sincerely believe the psychological and physical sense of support are intertwined and so these play into one another.
❤
Just discovered attachment theory this year and it's incredibly helpful... Very grateful it exists
… as a German Biochemist Ph D -
This is about Domestication and Conditioning
Of the Auto Pilot
In the Techno Sphere
That distorts what we once had as
Instincts, Intuition, Trust, Bonding with others
A clear sense of Antagonisms and Dissonance
The schizophrenia to be sure
We can do anything we want and think of
This leads to Human Self Extinction
Thank you so much for this amazing guest. I would very much like to see more material on relationships. The work you do is so cutting edge and it seems that there must be more people like Seth Allison with whom you could discuss these insights with. Your great strength is practical application. It's doubtless that we have to be healthy individuals in order to have healthy relationships as Seth is saying regarding his own personal experience, but you guys hit on something about relationships that I think the audience would find very relevant
This was great , so useful as a grief /bereavement counsellor and the integration with religion, religious experience and wisdom both personally and for my clients. Yes , self disclosure such a tricky area especially in some models but there is something about mutuality and not constantly playing authority of the therapist that can afford an opportunity for healing . I have experienced this but Perhaps some self knowledge from yr own therapy is the key. More please 😊
Great and lowly are RELATIVE. 😉
Incidentally, are you VEGAN? 🌱
❤
almost the tears, the therapist going human+ mode, and then everyone reflect on the feeling because we are actually all faking it, all lying somewhat, we don't know if we can just break the shit loose and really talk about it like it matters and like people can listen...
Lets be the very best people we would want to have in front of us to allow people to do the same, regardless of the pain you need to believe the world is a good place (from the Bible).
Let's go man ! why have I been leaving this discussion aside for so long
This was great!! ❤ What would be a great addition here is the style of processing data. Is it mainly visual, tonal, kinesthetic or digital (conceptual). This can cause a lot of misalignment in communication.
Thank you for this from the bottom of my heart ❤ This finally shed light on a lot of my problems and I think I know where to start from, now. Thank you to both of you from the bottom of my heart, this is really important for me ❤
Very insightful and helpful, thanks!
Another revelation that may save an individual from unnecessary suffering is to explore internal family systems therapy. Any time you are triggered or flooded with emotions it's attributed to an exiled part or a managerial part of your fragmented psyche
Can I ask what is meaning of "managerial part of your fragmented psyche"?
It’s IFS jargon. Google “IFS manager exile”.
Brilliantly articulated! Thank you both.
Dont miss this one, excellent
Thank you both. God bless your hearts ❤
❤
24:00 - Vervaeke makes his signature move towards the universal here. Instead of seeking a 'secure base' within a sense of rootedness, within the local, he wonders if we can instead find it within the universal and global. He points out that the ideal of axial/post-axial thinkers is to find a secure base "no matter where you are", an idea that has become the keynote of liberal modernity.
To these thinkers, as with Vervaeke, the local is ultimately to be transcended in search of a higher truth; much as within psychology optimal health is attained by overcoming what is given, in favour of what is chosen. A key marker of mental health is, as Allison says, 'flexibility' - the ability to survive in many different environments, to constantly upgrade.
Consider the humus of humans as humble “DIRT” - detecting, interpreting, responding in a timely manner to each other. When this occurs in an unconditional relational flow, attachment is enhanced in a reciprocal dialogical manner and meaning shows up
Thank you John I appreciate your work. - Doug Crawford.
Does anyone know where I can find the research they are discussing around 36:00 . About the monitoring during the strange experiment?
Happily, sharing this on Twitter (X). 🙏
Thank you!
@@Sethwallison i’m keenly interested in your work, thank you for your availability.
I have experienced many things in my life 41 years, having good "attitude" and could be friends of people are disrupted by systems, which can't allude its origin as respectful is sometimes "symbolic" to be more disrupted. "God" is also used to do it and walking long distance when some people abuse struggles-invocative things, people can't invoke its origin as atachment which is simple matter when seeing it. The conceptuality is "attached" to it and people who is conceptually "intimate" did arrogance to it, "officiality" or "open space of discussion" when I respect it, it is also inversed by origin of the "intimate" people and it is hidden and when it is hidden, "weakness condition making" took place, which were order of "intimate" people. If someone says "who is intimate?" it means struggles added to my experiences, but later, "it is just question" and brevity, which was abused to execute the disruption is misappreciated and things are complicated.
I "really" have been living life to walk long distance when hardships happened, it is also abused by "intimate" people and it took place eternally.
Thank you!
I also say thanksgiving to Dr.Vervaeke and his fellows. Same respect with you for Drs!
When Vervaeke mentions “G measurements” at 26:50 alongside big 5 personality and attachment theory, what is he referring to? What is G?
A measure of general intelligence.
Is it a misunderstanding, to say that if someone is excessively caught up in their internal data (excessive enteroception for example sensing one's own heartbeat most of the time) meditative practices like body scanning or focusing on the body is perhaps counterproductive? I have struggled with intense anxiety for probably most of my life and it boiled over in 2020 as it did for many others, even though I was doing daily meditation for a couple of years, I found myself regularly having panic attacks and being essentially completely stuck in fight or flight for weeks on end. Ironically, when I stopped having time to meditate (well, I basically became a bit lazy) the anxiety has gotten a lot more manageable.
In my experience, you are not misunderstanding. Interpersonal solutions would probably be much more helpful.
@@Sethwallison Thanks for the reply! I will add that I lived very isolated, single child and single mom in a foreign country without any other family, for almost the entire 20 first years of my life, things got way better as I started to explore the world, travel and meet people. Covid really brought out some extreme issues because of the indefinite isolation as well, which got much better after it blew over and I moved to a big city where a lot of good friends live. I used to have so much time to meditate, read scriptures, even take psychedelics, all on my own, but I don't think it was very helpful. Relationships with others, is really the most helpful thing.
Best book intro to attachment theory?
Wow is this crazy!
As someone with a disorganised attachment style, I find this helpful and sad.
The parent responds to the "signal" of the child, not his nervous system. This is the typical colapse of cognitive domains. The parent distress is realized through the nervous system. (Maturana et al.)
Infants are not experiencing pain with being born.
Original sin Jesus over here who just transferred religious views to psychology.
If a baby is experiencing something, it’s the light entering its brain.
You might be happy on a new chemical experiment, you might be scared, but you are not experiencing pain.
Light is creating an electro chemical reaction inside the eye/brain and the skin is experiencing dryness.
Tingly in the arm isn’t pain, nothing about what humans experience daily is pain.
It’s just the new sensation that we have not experienced before that our brains then have to experience to understand.
Once we understand that experience then it’s what it is, but that isn’t pain.
Original sin and you want to be Jesus saving humanity from being born.
To think, the people who are trying to gain a monopoly over thought are so religious on the manipulation of people from the start.
Here's the non academic explanation from an avoidantly attached American male. You are never able to co-regulate with another human being. The only time you feel safe is when you are alone. Period
Lol. Certain parts of me feel ya. However, 'never' is an absolutist kind of terminology. Couldn't it, at least hypothetically, be imagined with a human being who was perhaps aware, non-manipulative and as interested in it as you were? Granted, that kind of human being perhaps don't grow on trees, but humans themselves can grow and therefore don't always need tree to grow on :)
You are NEVER able? Now there’s a claim worth unpacking…
Those are some great responses to your comment. Take it from someone who feels similarly: you can absolutely find someone who you can relate to properly. To say otherwise is dooming yourself to a downward spiral, as being truly alone is undeniably harmful for anyone.
A more appropriate declaration would be that there are parts of me that express avoidance looked at through an ifs lens. Always a work in progress. Thanks for the reflection. Namaste
@@atypicaltexan3834 Thank YOU brother
The struggle to redefine the meaning of attachmen is obvious.