Internal Family Systems: Trauma, Wholeness, and Strengthening the Self | Dr. Richard Schwartz
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- Dr. Rick and I are joined by Dr. Richard Schwartz, creator of the Internal Family Systems (IFS) model of therapy, to explore how we can integrate all the aspects of who we are. We explain the IFS model, the nature of parts and their roles, and how we can use this knowledge to increase self-awareness and deal with common problems. Then Rick and Dr. Schwartz dive deep into the nature of the “Self,” where it comes from, and how we can tune into and strengthen it.
This was a wide-ranging conversation, and we were thrilled to have Dr. Schwartz on the podcast again. You won’t want to miss this one.
About our Guest: Dr. Richard “Dick” Schwartz is the creator of the Internal Family Systems (IFS) model of therapy, and has authored a number of books and over fifty articles focused on IFS. His newest book is No Bad Parts: Healing Trauma and Restoring Wholeness with the Internal Family Systems Model.
I am now writing on Substack, you can check out my work here.
Key Topics:
0:00 Introduction
2:10 A quick intro to the Internal Family Systems Model and our “parts”
6:55 Releasing the “Self”
11:25 The transpersonal vs. the scientific paradigms of the Self
16:25 How the practical side of IFS connects to the spiritual
23:55 The four goals of IFS, and fractals of parts
27:15 The practice of becoming your own attachment figure
32:35 Kindness and Richard’s own experience integrating his exiled parts
38:00 The value of the heavily personified framework of IFS
47:00 The counterintuitiveness of befriending our “bad” qualities
51:10 Relating the non-pathologizing nature of IFS to clinical psychological conditions
57:05 First and second darts
58:45 Identifying parts with curiosity, courage, and physical awareness
1:05:10 How asking yourself questions gets you in touch with your intuition
1:15:00 Recap
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Who Am I: I'm Forrest, the co-author of Resilient (amzn.to/3iXLerD) and host of the Being Well Podcast (apple.co/38ufGG0). I'm making videos focused on simplifying psychology, mental health, and personal growth.
I'm not a clinician, and anything I say on this channel should not be taken as medical advice.
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🌍 www.forresthanson.com
📸 / f.hanson
I liked the way Dr. Schwartz called a pause on the concept of personification of parts as if you are creating those parts. For me it's like hearing a mass of voices in a darkened room all striving to be heard, some arguing, some crying, some shouting, and it's total confusion. IFS flicks the lightswitch on and allows the parts to be seen and identified and appreciated for who they are so they can be worked with. My only regret is how late I've come to this party
"Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes." ~Walt Whitman 'Song of Myself'
Really liked Dr. Schwartz's point about the judgement involved with labelling behavior negatively (greedy, slothy) compared to recognizing the behavior as a part of yourself that's doing its best to help you survive. Very interesting man and great interview.
Thanks for pointing out this part of their talk. It's so valuable.
O, had this all been available 50 years ago! I started studying psychology informally as a teenager, after a trauma-filled childhood, and have been in therapy four times. What you gents have described is exactly what worked for me, not to be "cured", but to be whole. Two comments on content: first, kindness is the main thing. In Dutch and German, the word for child is 'kind'. Second, in recent work with traumatized refugees*, it really helped in addressing the parentification of a struggling eldest sister (whose mom was overwhelmed) to congratulate them that the girl had risen to the task. Then to point out that, if you build a boat as the water rises, and it takes you to a beautiful leafy shore, you need to decide what to do with the boat, unless you want to drag it through the forest.
* As an unpaid community mentor (retired human rights lawyer), not a shrink - I am not qualified for that!
What a beautiful metaphor
Not just buddhism all eastern thoughts specially the Hindu thought of God essence as Atman It is about also a secure attachment to God 1
@@drsandhyathumsikumar4479 Yes, that is how I understand it, too - a secure attachment to God. The Bhagavad Gita rocks!
10+ years ago I was diagnosed as mpd and everything was pathologized. My parts did their own written therapy…talking to each other, caring for each other. The therapy, with the therapist was more abusive than the original abuse. I had inner therapists who conducted our own healing.
Thank you so much for this. It mirrors my own process so well, including my being a bit Buddhisty.
As a recovering buddhist (I practiced it for two decades) and a recent discoverer of IFS, I enjoyed this interview so much. I've been a longtime fan of Rick Hanson. He's someone who seems to have made the most of his relationship with buddhism. It seems he didnt get caught up in the social drama and trauma of so many western buddhist societies. His questions and thoughts about this are all familiar to me.
But mainly, before coming on this interview, I'd been thinking that doing Schwartze's work has taken me to internal places that buddhism talks about, but never instructed ME how to actually get there. (I know others--like Rick Hanson here, have have had better experiences within buddhism). Schwartz is teaching non-duality and kindness more effectively and simply than most teachers of buddhism.
How come you left buddhism? I have an inkling but curious to hear it from the source.
Something I've noticed about people who focus a lot on non-duality (and I say this as someone who recognizes it's importance) is that they get to a point where they just deny that anything exists at all. They mistake the map for the territory and decide that because they _can_ strip away the world of forms and see the whole universe as one lump of meh, that cognitively thinking of it that way 24/7 is useful. They're insufferable to talk to because they refuse to acknowledge that categorizing and dividing things in our heads is a strategy that evolved because it's useful in our moment to moment lives.
It's something that I appreciate about Thelema- taking that concept and adding this to it: Know your real core identity before learning to think about the world this way. Instead of striving for nothing, know what you really, truly are striving for, so you don't just become a completely passive person. Now since your will is a natural part of the universe, what's stopping you? Act upon it.
I super appreciate Rick's clarification questions. As a practicing Buddhist for a decade, I can feel lots of confusion about integrating my spiritual practice with IFS. I wish I had found this even sooner!
This is the best interview with Richard Schwartz I’ve seen - your insightful perspectives and questions helped bring so much depth into the conversation! Would love a follow up with more discussion by this group!
This is the absolute best Dick Schwartz interview I've ever heard. Thanks so much! I love you guys❤!
This was so huge for me. I've been struggling and fighting with these parts for the better part of the year. And as Rick says, what you resist, persists. I believe this will be a huge game changer for me. And on so many levels as I struggle with RA. You guys are changing my life one episode at a time, and I'm so grateful. Over the course of the pandemic, I had essentially shut down and was literally on death's door. You guys helped save me and I have come so very far. Never think that what you're doing is pointless. You're a force for the greater, highest good in the world. Thank you!
I love this conversation because of the curiosity of the participants and their willingness to go wherever the unfolding truths led them. Delightful.
The genetic predispositions to ailments like asthma, arthritis, and other autoimmune issues represent to me the culmination of unresolved mental and emotional struggles, generationally.
While a dusty room or animal can trigger my asthma, it's more interesting to me to look at why the trigger is there to begin with.
As a kid I felt really bad about a lot of things but had no safe way to express that. Think espresso machine - that's often an image I use.
Eventually, my immune system became confused by having nothing to attack over the suffering, and "made up" a very real issue to release all that energy on.
The canvass was primed for the outcome, genetically and generationally, and as I got older, more ailments came and actually did end up on life support once.
To me, the worse autoimmune disfunction is, the louder the body is screaming to be heard in connection with the mental landscape but it comes out as a "foreign" language. Tough to decipher and easier to just hammer down the symptoms with drugs and surgeries.
And when one is dying why wouldn't you?
*As a new student in social work, episodes such as this one are of immense importance!*
Powerful and moving conversation! I have such respect for the IFS model. It is so intuitive and provable in its application. Game changing ❤️
This interaction between you three wonderful humans was beautiful to witness. There was so much space for your big S Self to shine that I also connected with my own Self. I learned so much about where I’m at in terms of my parts. So helpful. Thank you all so much.🙏😇
New viewer here. Slowly beginning my journey of getting help for my cptsd. This discussion was a gift. Being able to see myself as parts of a whole rather than a batched Jerkyll and Hyde science experiment 😅. Truly, thank you 🙏🏾
It is so heartwarming to hear the loving dialogue between son and father. Very touching to witness healthy authentic moments of expression like this.
Parts as characters vs defenses, etc. I have 2 thoughts to add. The first is that, in general, people have no problem thinking of ourselves as people. I think of myself as a self, a person, the kind that characters are based on. It’s something that we just know about ourselves, without really needing proof. Understanding that my sense of self is created physically with a brain and neurotransmitters does not change my personal sense of self. I am no less a person. So for me the question that is being asked is not about whether I am a character or not, but whether am I one character or many characters. IFS gave me the ability to see myself as many characters, rather than just the one. This was a huge relief! It enabled me to have a better relationship with myself. The parts of myself I don’t enjoy are just parts of me, and the part that doesn’t enjoy them is also just a part. So now when going through life, I have the ability to connect to more of my whole self, even contradictory parts, or parts that I would normally prefer to suppress or ignore. I don’t have to be afraid of them, or dislike them, the way I might if I had to create a single story of my identity. (How can I be both very intelligent, and an idiot? Different parts of me, and a loud inner critic…) So I’m freer to be real, and to have a better relationship with myself, making me wiser and more at peace. The second thing is that these parts can’t be reduced to a single feeling, a single defense, a single anything. Like people, they are complex, with different sets of significant memories, feelings, goals, needs, fears, defenses, different ways of being in the body.And like the unified me that I perceive myself as, they can grow and change. So in fact, each of these characters is like a simplified reflection of me - what I wish I were, and am sometimes, what I wish I weren’t, and am sometimes - and it doesn’t seem like a big leap to think that I could be made of more than one rather than just one. When all are put together, the complexity of a human makes more sense.
Listening to this great episode of Being Well- most are great incidently- I was struck by how Richard would stop Rick when Rick used negative terms such as Greed, Sloth etc. I loved how Richard said those terms were dehumanizing in a way. I always thought of the connection between IFS and Buddhism was with the Buddha not dismissing but acknowledging Mara. He invited her in for tea. Did not reject her or make her wrong. She came to him in many different forms, trying to pull him away from his endeavors for enlightenment. Yet he was steadfast in his commitment in Self and did not try to push her away.
Great conversation. I was first introduced to Dr. Schwartz at a talk with Dr. Gabor Maté in Victoria BC approx 13 years ago. I have now acquired a series of his books and find IFS compelling as a stepping stone on the pathway toward resolving global conflict which begins within each and every one of our selves (not sure if upper case S or lower case s is appropriate here!) The notion of exiles is so apropos. Once we accept, heal, and integrate these fragmented parts within our selves this can naturally and organically lead to healing relationships in our outer world and beyond. Think the "butterfly effect." Those ripples outward keep on going, impacting the entire grid. This may sound a little woo-woo but it really isn't! Thank you for sharing this conversation. Many blessings. 🙏🕊🦄
Those are great points!! I was going to ask if anyone is using IFS in organisations or globally! Tara Brach recently interviewed someone doing amazing work bringing Palestinians and Israelis together who hold hatred towards each other as a group. Both heard the other's experience and their joint humanity was brought together. Not IFS but similarities in terms of hearing both the angry,scared and caring, hopeful parts of themselves. From the outside it can appear that people in countries in conflict with each other can forget why they're in conflict. It just seems to breed a life of it's own! Must read some of Dr Schwartz's books!
@susiehooper2798 This is so powerful when people actually sit down face to face and see the humanity and the suffering in one another's eyes.
I needed a Hero, and it's ME.
I agree with the closing sentence of Dr Schwartz :D. Exactly! Beside the great and informative discussions in all episodes I listened to, it's a special delight to observe the kind relation between Dr Rick and you, Forrest. Thank you so much for your work.
Wonderful, informative . My best part was hearing words of compassion for all the parts. So when a part is reluctant to emerge l can offer this compassion . This allows me to explore without feeling criticized . I then can thank this part for protecting me and move on to letting go.
So grateful I ran across this episode today! IFS has helped me through a very difficult last 6 months; turned the last half of 2023 from the worst of times into the best of times as my parts are learning to trust Self. Thanks Rick, Dick and Forrest; you all rock!❤
I have learned to use curiosity where I used to just be in fear. Great big help. And I just want to add how surprised I was to learn that it was internal conflict that was stressing me out, not outer things. And parts is such a great way to think of these things rather than thinking it was me. I thought I was defective and now I see that I have parts that are out of balance.great talk. Thank You.❤
I wonder how Narcissistic Personality Disorder relates to how their internal family systems work?
No way! Haven't started the ep yet but so excited you got Dick back on the podcast to sit down with you and Rick. I'm halfway through No Bad Parts at the moment so I'm incredibly excited for this one 💪
As a soon-to-be therapist and long-time Zen practitioner, I found this episode especially enjoyable. It also reminds me of the "Big Mind" Zen practice of Dennis Merzel, as well as Hal and Sidra Stone's "Voice Dialog" method (Gestalt-ish). I am very interested in studying more about the IFS model of therapy. Thanks for another amazing episode!
It’s apposite that Richard Schwartz describes his own flowing into a spiritual view of the Self in this video; because I realised as I was listening to him for the nth time today that he’s the closest I have come to looking up to somebody for guidance. His presence is not simply of a therapist; it’s truly quite transcendental and calming in a way that true gurus might have. And of course the hosts are to be credited for eliciting this tone from Richard so effortlessly.
What a fascinating discussion, especially thanks to Rick for coming forward to debate. I really feel a want to join in, as a psychiatrist and with some knowledge of ancient Sanatan Dharma scriptures, which predate even Buddha considerably ☺️🌹🙏
Took me a while to understand that Self is Noself is beeingness the essence of all that is.
Thank you for this interview. I loved the respectful exchange of perspectives. Forrest you are so articulate and gentle at the same time.
Just found your podcast on Spotify a couple days ago and I’ve been listening to as many episodes as I can! It’s really helping me out in my personal life! Big fan!
Amazing interview! I love love love the integration of the two perspectives! Also Forrest, you nailed it with your incredible depth of perception! Much gratitude to all who were involved in producing this. ❤ 1:22:15
My favorite teachers and podcast host!! What a rich and insightful discussion
Hi, this is very interesting, thank you!
I was wondering, is this kind of what Jung was doing with active imagination?
I also read that in ancient polytheistic religions, for example in Greek mythology, the various gods were in a sense the personification of these inner parts. So for example Aphrodite represented sexuality, Ares our aggressive protective part, Hera family and stability, and so on. In this way, everyone could talk and pray to these gods and honor them all, and try to calm them when they got angry or out of balance. Were these ancient religions in a similar way, trying to achieve this kind of therapeutic results?
I am also very curious about other polytheistic religions, for example, Hinduism.
And then, monoteistic religions went a step further maybe, and grasped at the Self, which is what they call “God”, “Tao”, “Emptyness”, that cannot be described and personified, that doesn’t have any specific attribute.
I really enjoyed this conversation. It brought out different aspects of IFS. Thanks so much!
What a delightful and thought-provoking conversation! Thank you, Forrest, for the excellent work you do to facilitate and share these discussions. I have a special interest in hoarding disorder, and I'm inspired to do some digging to see whether anyone has published on the use of IFS in that context. If you're ever inspired to cover that topic, I would love to hear more!
Me too ❣️
What’s so great about Dr Swartz is that he explains things on a simple level because most of us don’t have a Buddhist degree or a counselor degree. Dr Swartz that you for helping me in a very deep kind way! ❤️❤️
As a non-civilian just starting IFS, this was hugely insightful. Thank you! I'll definitely have to mention this episode to the therapist.
maybe my fave episode so far! i really got a new understanding of how to work w parts that i think will be incredibly helpful. 🙏🙌✨
A very enjoyable conversation - the presence and calmness of the three speakers was just exquisite and helped my system calm down and get in touch with Self. Thank you! ❤
yeah ! thank you so much. so good to go to the Self right away. So we get used to recognize this inner benevolent state. Giving it ALL the Attention, or most of it. So we see more clearly about our moment.
I’ve been listening for years! I didn’t realize you guys had a CZcams channel. It’s so wonderful to be able to put faces to you and Dr. Rick💛
Thank you for this wonderful interview. The discussion about how the hinderances are treated in a lot of Buddhist practice is spot on. That is exactly why I quite doing vipassana meditation. I moved to the 6Rs practice described tranquil wisdom insight meditation practice (TWIM) and meditation got so much more enjoyable when I stopped pushing the hinderances away and got to know them. Since then I've also done a number of IFS sessions and found them to be very effective. This stuff works.
I really enjoyed this podcast and learned some timely knowledge on my road to healing.
Thanks so much!!
Wonderful interview. It fits in so well with my experience in voice dialogue and psychology of selves (using it with myself and working with clients). It is so natural to do parts work with people who know nothing about the frameworks we use, which really speaks to the realness of this structure/system of the psyche, and the results are another indicator of the usefulness and relevance of this work.
I liked the description about the Self being 'under' as I've always experienced the deep enduring place right at the centre of me, or 'underneath' everything else... and I've also experienced the Self as the wheel rim, 'out there' akin to zen buddhist views, the totality of the Self as all awareness, whether that be formed from my own awareness, as my reality is always formed by my personal awareness of it, or something inner and outer simultaneously,, that encompasses everything.
Wow. Favorite episode yet.
This interview confirms what I’ve been thinking since I heard about IFS; It’s psychoanalysis in a new narrative. Unfortunately this interview makes it apparent that Dr. Schwartz was never properly trained in psychodynamic therapy. His characterization of it around the mid point of the video makes that clear. If he had discussions with actual psychoanalysts about how communicating with defenses is done with empathy and care he wouldn’t think what he thinks. He even admitted he shied away from transference and countertransference. His theory is his way of dealing with his own uncomfortable feelings around countertransference.
Anyway, I still think IFS is great that it works for many but I find too often people denigrate or demonize psychodynamic therapies because they don’t understand it. That’s a reflection of institutions, the history of therapy and psychology and the people too stubborn to see that more than it is a reflection psychodynamics as a form of therapy.
What I think is great about IFS is that it has empathy and compassion built into the model. In contrast to psychoanalysis which, I think, has its bad rep from actual psychoanalysts, who have been working in a passive, slow way, and empathy being more up to the therapist, not built in to the model.
Great point very well made 👍
I agree & can’t help thinking it’s a push back on psychoanalysis as the originator of ALL modern modalities. The tabula rasa idea of the abstinent therapist caused many ruptures to the humanity of the analyst as perceived and/or received non-consciously by both clients in the room and observers or readers of psychoanalytic practice, which played out in the transference which wasn’t empathically “held” & “contained” by many analysts because of fear of collusion by not being abstinent. I think that was unfortunate & caused the misunderstanding of which you write…imho that is! Or am I being a silent assassin..? Or, how would that be expressed in psychoanalytical terms? And maybe that’s part of the problem that you allude to..? The expression of the analyst’s humanity as hampered by the silent thunder of psychoanalytical insistence or maybe Freud’s booming presence? In the words of Whitehead cited in Bateman & Holmes’ “Intro to Psychoanalysis” Routledge - 1995;
“a science that hesitates to forget its founders is doomed”p.17.
Great discussion
This interview answered questions I had. It clarified other concepts. I wish Dick would have elaborated on how arthritis is anger. I would ask an afantasia person: If you could imagine this in your body...
What would it look like, sound like, taste like, smell like or feel like? Imagine where would it be in your body. If it would live in your body, Where would it live. That way it would not paint a person into a corner. Left brain preference people, come to mind. They could bypass the part saying to them that this isn't factual (or ask the afantasia part to sit back). Left brain people understand imagination. This can humor the process. The C for creativity and the P for playfulness comes to mind. The playfulness may bring the protector forth. Unfortunately in Houston, none of the IFS Therapists will see a person with a particular diagnosis that was mentioned in this show. That is truly heart breaking. I think fear plays a roll in this which makes me wonder how well these therapists have worked with their own parts. Some are level 3 in the IFS model. For this reason I continue to learn everything I can which led me to Open Dialogue. Still I am too close to the person which makes it hard for the process plus I am not a therapist. I am eternally grateful for this interview. May you have love, may you be well, may you find peace...
Wish it could have kept going! I enjoyed this and if I could ask one thing it's about the mind part Dick mentioned at the end! I really could have used more information about that part. I've been doing parts work for a little over a year now.
Fantastic conversation - loved the comparisons of Buddhism and IFS especially in relationship to self.
Wow, this was so profound!
Thanks!
I love this topic. Currently going through weird guilt healing through stuff. ✌️ 🙏
Thank you this helped me to transcend my mind and the minutia of who I am not!❤
Wonderful!
It's too bad we struggle with language, though that's nothing new.
When I consider "getting rid" of a part, I really mean just stopping the suffering, like a three-year-old wanting their mother to "go away" when they're not getting what they want.
As a person may mature and develop more liminal space from thought to thought or action, language will shift even if it isn't expressed outwardly.
Do I really want to get rid of a hungry ghost? No, I just want them to stop driving my life into the ground, and the way to do that is to stop feeding them the nutrients that allow their behavior.
Any time an entity gets the right food they generate tremendous change.
Kindness is the most delicious and healthful food!
Negative actions are, indeed, negative, even if they're rooted in childhood trauma or not getting what we needed. Else they wouldn't be called that.
Calling them "bad", getting rid of them, is simply a way to draw attention to the fact that they are not to be left as they are.
A lot of people do that these days. "Accept" people's misbehaviors as unchangeable qualities and so don't give any negative feedback.
Phenomenal ❤
Jill Bolte Taylor's work on the 4 quadrants of the brain, which each have their own distinct character, is helpful here. Managers would inhabit the L frontal cortex (logical, analytical); exiles in the L rear, which stores memories of trauma etc; fire fighters in the R rear, which responds emotionally to presebt time events (triggers); and the Self in the R frontal cortex, which she discovered is the area that experiences no boundaries & deep connectedness with everything. Worth listening to her podcast, " Whole Brain Living".
Hello! Resourceful show. I think its also vital for you to go with the works of Jo Watson (drop the disorder) and Dr. Lucy Johnstone (Power Threat Meaning Framework) since you already tackled a non pathologizing model which is IFS
Also anyone who is in the critical psychiatry/psychology field
Humanism meets Buddhism - I love it! 💕🙏💕🙏💕🙏💕🙏💕🙏💕🙏💕🙏💕🙏💕🙏
I relate to the discussion of the insight of connectedness of all living things through use of magic mushrooms. So true. Prior to that experience, I might have called bs on this concept (as someone who has always had a personal aversion to religion broadly).
I love this - I just have one question - I’m afraid of losing my expression and making everything “calm” but I don’t know if I want that 😊
OMG I’ve just made up an imaginary family with Forrest as my brother and Rick and Dick as my two loving dads 😂 Already they’re doing a lot better than my actual family or my internal family lol.
I scoured the Internet at one point for how Buddhists deal with 'negative' emotions and it left me largely unsatisfied. I think there is a good Thit nhat hanh video where he does go into 'befriending anger'. I do believe other non-traditional buddhists have integrated IFS or have borrowed enough where the urge to 'purify' the soul is not as important as acceptance and integration and has similar conclusions. I have had trips where i met "parts" of myself or entities of the self and i think IFS plus meditation can enhance the therapeutic affect of newer medicine and is highly compatible
Wow, another amazing deep dive into IFS, thank you, this was so informative, rooted in curiosity, and I'm so interested in the intersection of self as.... soul? As a person in IFS now, this helps me see why I experience my Self more in a faith based service and how healing I find that in my therapy journey.
I think of Self in this way too.
IFS is pure non judgement
Dr Schwartz is 74??? Wow! Whatever he's doing, I want some 😀
Ppppp😅😅😅
❤❤❤❤❤
46.00 Like the orchestra that Thomas Hubl describes...
touchingly humanizing to hear the developer of this great system of thought impart a bit of his own story regarding his father.
also heartening to hear him recount his discovery of spirituality as the real core of the matter.
❤
From a Christian perspective, I will take away from this inspirational interview, the interpersonal way God interacts with us in a fallen world. It is through his grace, that we can learn to accept ourself and become a holistic human being. Our authentic self will/ can learn to survive the fragmentation encountered in trauma through therapeutic healing and realizing/processing that there is something greater than the self to rescue us.
❤️✌️
When you don’t acknowledge those parts of you exist you can’t heal them.
what you resist persists
I wonder how IFS relates to Carl Jung's archetypes and shadow archetypes: "I must also have a dark side if I want to be hole."
Parts of me get defensive hearing a kind of sensationlism on how many parts we can fragment to 😅
The Hansons are trying to understand IFS from an intellectual standpoint, but they don't get it bc it is not an intellectual construct. It would be great to see them invite Schwartz back for a session. It would be very brave of them to let their therapist intellectual parts to step back and be vulnerable.
This is the second interview we did with Dr. Schwartz, and in the first one Rich and I did a live session together. You can find it here: open.spotify.com/episode/7ytu8vtNR63Ttl62r9xa45?si=d5dc28f7efeb40ec
@@ForrestHanson Thanks. I listened to the first interview. Good job, it flows well and lets the listener understand what IFS is and why it is so powerful. If you do a follow-up to this one, perhaps your father could do a session with Richard Schwartz.
it’s a framework, not gospel. many books are sold with new frameworks every year. if it helps you, great
I found that Forrest kept trying to come back to getting more basic details from Dick to familiarise people with the different parts however Rick kept dragging the discussion back to ‘the self’ I didn’t enjoy this podcast which is unusual as I’m usually a great fan.
This seemed like it was going to be such a wonderful subject, but unfortunately it was WAY over my head! I was also disappointed it was so focused on religion. 😢