Mixing Brands In A Regulator System - Scuba Tech Tips: S05E13
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2017
- Viewers have asked if it's a problem to mix different manufacturer brands in a regulator system? Alec explains why mixing brands is OK then builds a mixed system to show how simple it is technically and cost wise.
**** Alec Peirce Scuba ****
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We are lucky to have someone like Alec providing such useful and reliable information
Thanks Alex.
Alec
I don’t remember life before finding Alec Pierce Scuba. Huge fan!
Funny - I don't remember life before Alec Peirce either!
Thanks. Alec
I just recently came across your videos as I'm looking to get certified and went through all your videos. All I have to say is this....you are THE Bob Ross of scuba tech tips, sir. Love ya!
I have been servicing regulators for about 6 years but your videos are so educational and informative. I really love how you make it simple. Keep them coming
Thanks Deep.
Nice to hear from a pro.
Alec
You are the best man I appreciate you so much, I hope all is well with you 🙏
I appreciate that, thank you.
A
First off, love the videos. I'm hooked. My wife laughs at me every time she catches me tuning into Scuba Tech Tips!
I've been diving off and on for the last 17 years and finally had enough of renting gear through local dive shops. I figured at this stage in my life (32), it would be wise to own up and purchase my own set up gear. Budget was obviously a concern, but I wanted to make sure I purchased recognizable brand names that would be serviceable through my local dive shops in the area.
After watching this particular video on mixing brands, I feel much safer with the decision I made by purchasing multiple brands to meet my budget (Cressi BCD, Tusa 1st stage, Cressi Octo, Mares computer, etc.). I was always worried that they would marry well together, for whatever reason. Thank you for setting the record straight. Keep up the great work. Can't wait to watch your next video!
-Sean
Good news Sean. Having your own gear makes diving so much more enjoyable - maybe safer too.
Tell your wife that my wife laughs at me too - first while we're making these videos and later when she watches them.
Wives that laugh are a good thing - the alternative not so good.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
I totally agree. Happy wife, happy life.
Hey, I think I might have a future video for you to ponder. Might sound strange, but how about some advice on combating seasickness while doing boat charter scuba. Alec, it never fails that when I enter a dive boat you can be sure to catch me feeding the fish at the stern in roughly 15 to 30 minutes into the trip. It never fails. I've tried basic remedies like ginger ale, Dramamine and sometimes they work. Sometimes they don't. I've heard of using an ear plug? Thoughts?
Maybe offering some tips that you've used over the years, or have witnessed others use to combat seasickness while heading out on a charter boat. Don't worry, if you do choose to make this a video I won't request any royalties :)
Thanks again. Oh almost forgot, my wife and I are in Maui mid-July. Shooting for Molokini back wall, Lanai Cathedrals and maybe a wreck dive. Any recommendations?
Thanks for sharing Alec! 🖒
these are fantastic, please keep them coming!
Alec, I love your channel. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Another great vid and good tips ! thanks
Thanks Alec. This was a very informative and stress reducing video. It's nice to actually know what one can and can't do with their equipment.
Thank you Alec!!!! I have watched every video you have posted. Please keep them coming.
Thanks for watching Jerry.
Alec
Perfect timing on this subject. I have been wanting to add an octo on my system, (Im currently running an Air2 system for my safe second) for things like lift bags and also for lower level/newer dive buddies. I wasnt really wanting to pay scubapro prices for their octo.
Greetings from Greece. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Very much appreciated.
So nice of you, thank you.
Hi Alex, thank you so so much ! I'm totally new to scuba and doing my first lessons now. You have taught me so so much and making this much more enjoyable for me
Thanks for watching Theo.
Alec
Greetings from Cebu, Philippines. Love how you share those years of experience for free. thank you
So nice of you.
That was extremely quick and good. Thank you for the video!
Thanks for watching.
Alec
Hi, Alec. I have the Scubapro regulator system and the Oceanic dive computer. My instructor was nice enough to put together for me and it works perfectly.
That's a system that's hard to beat.
Alec
Alec, first I want to say thank you for all the great information you share. As you say, you are not selling anything but sharing information. I have that exact set up that you are showing in the informational video. Mk25 evo first stage, A700 second with the Alt Air safe second. Works fantastic. Please keep sharing. It is up to the diver to take this information on how he or she applies it to their diving needs. Some people just don't get it.Thanks Pete
Thanks very much for watching Bryon and for your support.
You know, diving is a lot like motorcycles and guns.
A guy buys a new bike or a new gun on Monday. The following weekend when he meets his buddies, it looks nothing like it did when he bought it with all the extras and accessories that he has added - stuff he wants to make that item his own.
So it often is with regulators and BCDs. Everyone is a bit different and sees things from a different perspective.
As you say, I'm just hoping to open eyes, to educate. What divers do with that information is up to them.
I often say, "If it works for you, go with it."
Take care.
Alec
I watched many of your videos very interesting lots of good information.
Thanks for watching David.
Alec
Loving these OG tips
More to come from this smart OG!. Thanks for watching Drew.
A.
Man your info is so helpful
Took a looooooong time to get it!.
Hi Alec I was wondering if you could do a video on the different sizes of BCDs
Big fan, it would be very nice if you could do an anecdotal series, with so much experience and years diving you sure must have some great dive stories to tell. Keep up the excellent work.
Lots of stories for sure. I've shared a few of them on here already.
I'm not sure if it would be interesting or even appropriate to make a video on just my diving experiences.
Alec
fantastic video!
Thank you very much!
Thank you for your insights.
You are so welcome
Great stuff Alec.
Glad you enjoyed it
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter great info Alec. I have been Diving for years but there is always something I can learn from you. 👍👌
Sure do appreciate your time Brother Alec. Your no b.s. explanations are a true blessing. Many, many thanks!
Well thanks RR.
I hope you're getting some ideas to make your diving better.
That's all I ask.
Take care.
Alec
Well that was convienient, i was wondering if i could upgrade my 2nd stage while keeping the first stage the same because of the big price tag that comes with complete systems, good information! thanks
I have been diving on a "Frankenstein" regular setup for over a decade. Every piece from a different manufacturer and accumulated over quite some time. Never had an issue. As I am typing this I guess I am "living proof" a mix-n-match system works just fine!
It does when thought through and not for showing off. In my stores I sold many brands but someone would always come in saying what about brand X, will it fit? So I used the example of a car, you buy GM, maybe use GM parts IF available, a good price, and does the job. Otherwise it's off to Canadian Tire (in Canada), Princess Auto or the internet. You still drive a GM but you want it to be 100% functional and not 100% GM parts after many years. Thanks for sharing.
a very honest approach of diving equipment, I dive for more than 40 years now and except for the wetsuits ,masks and fins, I never bought a new equipment I always assembled and serviced myself my regulators and my BCD's and I never had a problem with that.
my approach is very simple, find the pertinent documentation then study it, think twice and act once and be very, very clean in the work execution, adjust then check twice.
With the years, I made most of the specialixed tools I use as the IP gauge and the differents jigs to install seats, O rings, filters and tis locking ring stress sleeves on the hoses and many others.
I think that I will fabricate the second stage adjusting tool as it speeds the second stage matching process.
That tool is easy to make. Put a gauge on it too so you can see the IP right there as you adjust it.
Take care.
Alec
I was going to mix and match my second stages. But then I decided that for servicing purposes it might be better to have the 1st and 2nd stages to all be a matched set. I'm sure most LDS are certified to service most brands, but it is a parameter I didn't want to gamble with. The other hoses (inflators, SPG) are different brands.
hi Alec, I have a question, if it is okay or safe to buy a second hand regulator set.
Great video. I've always debated on mix and matching. Like getting the oceanic air integrated computer, scuba pro reg, ocean bcd, and cheap but heavy duty emergency octopus. The problem is getting it serviced easily. All my local dive stores will only maintain equipment bought by them and only 1-2 brands max. Don't even think about buying anything online or they won't touch it. Wish we had a cool and flexible dive store like scuba 2000 where I live. I don't blame them since I am in Missouri and it's not like we have a booming scuba market smack dab in the middle of the country.
Even more reason for them to give good customer service! If I lived there and experienced that, I'd be opening a dive store that offered all the things they don't. Guess who would flourish?
It is because of such stores that the internet is so popular.
Won't service gear that wasn't bought from them!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And they probably thinks that's good business!
Good luck.
Alec
if you get your regulators serviced at your local dive shop, i would check with them if they service the specific brand you want to attach though. if you get a scubapro reg, but buy atomic 2nd stage, your dive shop may not be able to service the atomic 2nd stage. just something to keep in mind.
Very true to ask before mixing brands if your LDS services all the key parts. Most service tech's cover the major brands sold in a store but not always for outside models.
A
In the UK and I guess Europe our regs are EN250 certified but only certain combination even from the same manufacturer due to the high cost of the testing. The testing also is done with the manufacturer's s hoses.
Typically our dive centres will service miss matched systems but give them back not assembled with an advisory liable leaving you to put them back together.
No problems with consoles assuming the hose is EN250.
Ahh the old EN250! Some over-educated, non-diving pinhead deciding how scuba divers should behave.
Wait for it guys. You'll soon have to to have an EN250 license in your pocket before you go in the water.
While I equally hate frivolous liability lawsuits, it seems to be a better way to get manufacturers to make good products! You know, "Kill me with your shitty regulator and my family will sue your a** off!!".
Welcome to 2017 and Beyond .....!
Anyway, a store that won't properly assemble your reg system is just weird. Certainly not good business!
Ok, so you can buy a EN250 certified first stage and a matching EN250 certified second stage and then add an EN250 certified Safe Second from a different brand (very common set-up) and hook them up and go diving but, ..... you can't put a certified primary second stage on that's not the same brand?!! Hold on!! The Safe Second 2nd is not the same brand and it works fine! WTF!
My point is that a Safe Second is just a 2nd stage. What does it matter that your primary is a different brand?
Somebody upstairs hasn't had their coffee today - or tea in your case!
Am I missing something here?
And, to follow up on my initial rant about EN250, now they're telling you that you can't have a Safe Second on some regs because it may not give you enough air! I'd say not getting enough air is better than not getting any air!!!!!!!
You be careful there over 'ome.
Alec
I like all your Tech Tips . Would like to know is there’s something to do about a leaky mask because of smile lines . That causes a very small leak. My smile lines look like the ones on the side of your nose. What mask do you recommend??
A leaking mask due to smiles is better than one caused by frowns. No brand will fix that, you must try it on and do a mask test (the store will demonstrate it). If it sticks to your face while moving your jaw, eyes, lips, get it, maybe 2 as backup. I have deep lines and tries many masks to find a good fit, not perfect as I have to remember not to smile too big while diving or it drips in. Problem is with the Covid is stores may be hesitant to let customers try on mask as they have to clean them afterwards.
please make a video on hose replacement since different brands have different sizes on male and female UNF screws
Generally, that is on 99% of all regs made worldwide, the LP hose has a 3/8" thread and ports to match while the HP hose has a 7/16" thread.
That's about it. You can't mix them up 'cause they don't fit into the wrong port.
I think we just did a video on installing hoses.
I hope it helps.
Alec
Hi Alec, a great video as always, I have a quiestion related to it. I need a new second stage to assemble an old piston regulator (scubapro mk2...from 20 years ago, the first stage was fine, but the second one didn't survive such a long storage) and I found a very cheap deal for an Oceanic second stage but its label says it is a "hookah" version. Can I use this second stage with my regulator right away?, or need to adjust something before?. Thanks a lot
Hookah version is simply a 2nd stage that has been adjusted for lower IP. It will work fine. Hook it up, check the IP and then adjust the new 2nd to not freeflow.
I just made a new video on how to do all that.
Alec
Alec Peirce Scuba Great. Thanks a lot!
I have a Sherwood BCD from the 1990s
wish you talked a bit more about typical intermediate pressure and what brands might not be complete match - and how to adjust that small hiss. I happened to create a spare regulator to teach the kids in the pool and ran into that small hiss you mentioned...
Watch my upcoming vids Alain.
Alec
Hi Alec, hope all is well I’ve just purchased a din regulator what is your opinion on using the din to yoke adaptors are there any drawbacks that might not be clear to me and also are they suitable for like 50 dives plus? I did have a scan for a video for this but couldn’t find one for this. Thanks in advance!
You should have no issue diving with a DIN connected to a yoke adapter. Watch tech tip S04E14 DIN regulators and adapters, for more information. The one key reason for using a DIN is when connecting to high pressure tanks (generally above 3442 psi), otherwise both will work fine for a long time with care. Thanks for watching Lewis.
Hi, what about an overbalanced reg like the aqualung twilight with a alt airsource/bcd inflator like the atomic ss1?
Overbalanced is one of these words made up to help sell regs. It came from the Marketing Department, not Engineering.
Technically, there is no such thing as overbalanced.
If 'balanced' means there is no effort change to open or close the valve regardless of the pressure or depth conditions, 'overbalanced' would mean that there is!!!
Next time you hear that word used, ask the person to explain what it means. Compare what he says to my video. It could be interesting.
However, I have talked about combined BCD/Safe Seconds before. As with most attempts to combine separate functions in a single component, it usually doesn't come off well.
Take care.
Alec
Hi Alec, Could you do an serie on servicing equipment?
Keep watching Nick.
Alec
Hello! I recently purchased some used equipment. The first stage is an aqua lung. I bought an aqua lung safe 2nd and it fits but then I bought a brand new primary regulator. Oceanic alpha 10. But it doesn’t fit! The LP port on the upper part of the aqua lung (first stage) is a bit bigger at around 1/2” thread size. Is it ok to use adapters or a new hose? Or should I purchase a different regulator. Thanks for any info.
Using size adapters is not a problem with todays extremely safe parts, some even swivel. Maybe start cheap and use an adapter, test dive the setup in a pool or shallow dive (with buddy). If the reg is good, use it, otherwise a replacement may be Needed. Remember to get them serviced if not confident the previous owner took good care of it.
Hi Alec, I really like watching your videos, I think they're great.
Can you help please?...I have a technical question regarding mixing brands and it would be great if you could shine your pearls of wisdom on the matter please.
I have always rented scuba gear. I am a fairly new diver, I did my AOW a few months ago. Very recently I decided to take the plunge and buy my first regulator.
I like single side exhaust 2nd stages, so I decided to buy a new Hollis 500SE 2nd stage with a Hollis DC7 1st stage. The service manual of the Hollis regulator says that the intermediate pressure of the regulator is 9.5bar (+/-0.5 bar).
I required a safe second for my regulator setup, so I thought it would be a prudent to compare intermediate pressures of regulators. I found the Aqualung Kronos Supreme (single side exhaust new - old stock) which had the same intermediate pressure, so on that basis I thought pairing it to the Hollis 1st stage would be suitable.
However, the subsequent dilemma I have just realised is, the Hollis DC7 is an overbalanced 1st stage diaphragm and usually the Aqualung Kronos is paired to a balanced diaphragm 1st stage.
So I am left questioning and wondering:- How overbalanced is an overbalanced 1st stage? If I descend 10m do I get another 3psi per 10m for example, is this a linear increase? If my 1st stage is overbalanced and my safe 2nd stage is only balanced, will the increase in intermediate pressure when I go deeper cause the Aqualung Kronos to go into free flow? Or will the relative increase in external pressure from the water prevent/mitigate the relative increased intermediate pressure from the over balanced 1st stage? Can I just control any potential free flow with the combined dual function of the venturi/ease of breathing adjustment on the Kronos?
Is having an over balanced 1st stage with a balanced 2nd stage the same as having a balanced 1st stage with an unbalanced 2nd stage?
Any thoughts or insight you could offer please?
Thanks
James
Hi James. Good to hear from you.
I have many viewers in the UK and some have become on-line friends.
We visit England occasionally. My dad was from Bridge near Canterbury. Where do you live?
The Hollis DC7 is a fine regulator and a good choice for a newish diver or an expert.
I think your question is prompted more by the sales hype than actual concern. Realize that regulators are all very similar. Despite the manufacturers claims that his reg is "the best every made" or "guaranteed to revolutionize scuba diving", there is really no radically different regulator out there nor any one that would honestly be considered the "best". Note that Aqua-Lung had an 'Over Pressure' 2 hose reg in the 1950's!! To save your calculator, that's over 60 years ago!
I'm sure you know some of this but let me refresh. The Intermediate Pressure (IP) is the pressure coming from the first stage. It is set to specifications during service and is generally between 125psi and 160psi (8.5bar and 11bar). 135psi (9.3 bar) would be considered a normal and satisfactory IP. It's important to realize that the IP is the pressure ABOVE AMBIENT (surrounding) pressure. So at the surface the IP gauge would read 135psi and at every depth the IP would be 135psi ABOVE ambient. For example, if it were possible to read the IP while diving (it is easily possible BTW), you would see that it's 135psi at the surface, 150 at 30', 165 at 65', 180 at 100' and so on. These numbers are approximate but illustrate that the IP is always ABOVE AMBIENT. It's a simple, critical and basic function of a 1st stage to adjust the IP automatically as you descend.
So, you can add any LP accessory of any make or model, octo, BCD, dry suit, etc, to your Hollis 1st stage without concern. In the case of a 2nd stage, whether primary or safe second, that 2nd stage will need to be adjusted to match the IP of the 1st. That's an easy, 2 minute job for most regs. Of course Hollis would prefer you to use their 2nd, but it's not necessary.
The balanced, over balanced or non-balanced status of the 1st or 2nd stages has nothing to do with the foregoing. It only has an affect when air is flowing.
I often suggest to divers that they choose their regulator without regard to price but considering only reputation, availability, cost of service and suitability to their diving needs. Then I suggest they consider the most basic model safe second available. No venturi, breathing adjustment or other features are required. A safe second specifically designed to be an octo such as the XS Scuba Alt Air for example, would be my choice.
Hopefully you will never use your octo and if you do, it will only be for a few minutes and while ascending. Why spend extra money for features that you will never use AND that may increase the likelihood of a free flow, while in use or not?
If, in an emergency, my dive buddy secures my octo for his use and he then stops on the ascent to adjust the breathing, I'd be inclined to take it back and continue my dive. Clearly there's no emergency. Or if he complains about the breathing of my octo upon reaching the shore safely, I'd be looking for a new buddy!
Determining what the correct IP is for a 2nd stage in the hope of matching the IP from the 1st stage doesn't work James. While the IP has a suggested specification, it can and will vary and often by a great deal. Most manufacturers IP specifications allow for 15psi (1bar) above or below that pressure. So if the IP is suggested at 135psi, it could be anywhere from 120 to 150 and still be considered OK. Once the IP is set properly at the 1st, any attached 2nd must also be adjusted to match. All breathing characteristics, ease of breathing, effort, flow, etc, are determined at the 2nd stage, NOT the first. The 1st is only there to provide a steady source of air at 135psi. In fact, many service people will adjust a safe second so that it is not quite as sensitive as the primary second stage in an effort to reduce free flows from the safe second. So the two 2nd stages may have different settings!
I hope all of this is clear. Let me know.
Good talking.
Alec
Hi Alec, Enjoyed your video.
So one question just to make sure, can i use aqualung calypso classic for the safe second, if I use legend LX for reg?
From your video I think it can, just need to adjust it so it will not free flow. but the shop keep offer me aqualung core for the safe second. :(
You are right. I've no idea why they won't work with you unless they are overstocked on the CORE. Any second stage can be added as a Safe Second.
Alec
Alec Peirce Scuba Thank you...
Here is a topic for you - traveling setup (which I know you do a lot). You do mention packing light on one of your video (I already have flexi hoses which I love, a tiny Ion/AT600 setup, and Nova fins based on your glowing endorsement, and an older sub 5lbs soft bcd which I use for local dives too now) but one thing I've been toying with is Aeris Jetpack and shorter fins to fit. That would enable you to carry all your gear on-board all you gear instead of checking it in (might save a bunch depending on flight, and not risk of loosing/damage). More a pipe dream of me taking off solo for a tropical dive on a whim...
The Oceanic JetPack is a neat idea - combining the BCD and the Dive Bag. We have sold a few of them.
Unfortunately, like so many ideas that combine functions in one item, they don't work nearly so well as it seems.
Picture a combination hammer/screwdriver. Technically possible but you would have a hammer that doesn't do a great job and a screwdriver that's bulky to handle.
Sometimes it's better to have 2 really good items that do a great job as intended.
A travel BCD that works well laying on the bottom of a dive bag that works well sounds perfect to me.
Realize that with the Jet Pack when you're underwater you have your dive bag on your back!
Alec
but the point of the jetpack is to carry it onboard and not pay baggage fees. Some reviews I've read mention the tank lifting up when empty but I don't have direct experience. Apparently the waist band doesn't pull the tank.
Get a Scubapro Hydros Pro, that way you have the BCD and the bag seperate, and all your gear will fit.
why would I spend >$800 to get what looks like a not so light BCD (unless you remove all attachments) just because it comes with a backpack that looks too small to put much in ? I already have a sub 5lbs large BCD that folds flat (for next to nothing) and can get a $40 backpack to carry it and few items too...
Now you're thinking!
Alec
nahh. try the poseidon xtream :). ps: it is a pain to mix poseidon anx other brands :) overall a very good vid. more ps as i am watching: you should always use your safe second, during a dive I use to switch from my main to the second(i use a longhose config and the safe is for me). keep up Alec
Yes I had read that Poseidon liked to be different. everything else seems quite compatible.
I did say that you can mix almost 100% of regulator brands. I did not mention which ones posed a problem.
One is Poseidon. The threads and ends of their hoses are different from all others.
Alec
Yes you did. I also suspect people that use Poseidon probably know what they are dealing with. I think some brands used to have unusual port sizes but not lately. Apeks TX some years ago perhaps? I think those had the 1/2" port for the second stage and used 5mm hex driver on the plugs too just to be different.
Hi Alec I hope you fine
What is your preferred regulator
Thank you for your time!
I'm not into promoting products but to share their pros/cons and to educate divers. I have 3-4 regs depending on warm/cold water and double hoses. Just watch my videos and you will see what I have that day. Thanks Igor.
I have a scubapro Mk11 1st stage and a HOG zenith 2nd stage / Octo
IME
The HOG 2nd stages operate the same as the Scubapro mid range regs.
All good gear that works together well.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Senpai Noticed me!!!
What about mixing a 2nd and first stage are the pressures different or are they also standardized
You can mix 1st and 2nd of any brand, but the 2nd will likely need some tuning to get the IP and effort to match the 1st stage IP. IP can vary from 125 to 170 psi but once balance, will work fine.
A
Surely you can mix and match brands as you like and if you make the right adjustments it will work fine in most cases. However tests shows that you are changing the performance by making a hybrid between the 1st and 2nd stage. At the end of the day YOU become the manufacturer by making a Frankenstein regulator with all the consequences her off.
Safe diving to all
You are quite right!
Unlike the 50's and 60's where scuba gear companies came up with a good idea and just made it work, today's regulators are are very sophisticated. The first stage performance is matched carefully to the second stage and only with the original arrangement are you guaranteed to get the best and most consistent performance.
Long gone are the days when reg parts could be switched around at random.
Several years ago, I hired a service tech at my store. He came with many years of experience at a couple of previous stores. One day I asked him if he was familiar with a regulator that I knew to be rare and unusual.
He said, "No Problem. All regulators are the same and even use the same parts."
From that day on I watched him like a hawk and not long after let him go.
Sure, the theory is the same and there are often similarities but no, they are NOT the same and no, the parts cannot be substituted. Not in my store. We use original factory-supplied parts only. Partly for the diver's safety and partly for the integrity of my business.
Now I am talking about modern regs - say, from 1990 on. Realize that 1990 was 28 years ago.
Imagine trying to fit parts from a 30 year-old car into your 2012 F-150. Even the light bulbs are different!
For older regs or genuine vintage regs (pre-1975), it is different. I have often used different brand exhaust valves and even diaphragms or seats.
Not today.
Adding a different brand second stage or safe second can be done and with adjustment it will work safely but it will not necessarily match the performance of a factory regulator.
Thanks for your comment and for watching.
Alec
Great response!
I believe this is the main reason most LDS always recommend you to get the corresponding 2nd stages, because then they know the characteristics and performance are exactly what it says.
Thanks for replying and for an awesome blog - love these Tech Tips!
So great to know that, I know they must be a standard, but I thought It would just work, if you had a cressy or Aqualung bcd and a scubapro regulator, so you could start diving with a secound hand bcd or a cheaper one until you are a pro who wants something special.
Manufacturers want you to stick with all their products, of course, but mix and match works best to meet your budget, diving profiles and experience level. Of course if your Kevin, just buy everything in pink!!! Ha.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Well it makes more sense to mix, so you could start diving with a cheap cressi, if you dive more you would buy something better so you could still use the cressi as a secound regulator. 😉
Any Idea why the shops make such a fuzz about it?
I bought a second 1st Stage for cold water diving to my Mares Instinct 12S and they asked liked 3 times exactly what type of 2nd stage / Octopus I use, so they can make sure to pick the right first stage, as if not even any Mares first stage would fit.
Any idea on that?
Really appreciate all your videos, many thanks for sharing your extensive knowhow and experience, best regards from Europe (Switzerland)
Any 1st will work with any 2nd - Mares or not.
However, assuming they're not just trying to sell you something, maybe they want to be sure everything works fine.
Don't be so cynical. Not all dive stores are crooks!
You do have to adjust the 2nd(s) to suit the IP of the 1sts as you switch around. but if you only do so once in a while, the Ip won't change much and you won't have any problems.
Your solution is a bit different but if it works for you go crazy.
Most divers would choose a cold water reg for all their diving. No reason why not. Or maybe have 2 complete separate set-ups.
I imagine diving in Switzerland is like Canada - water temp of 40 to 70 degrees ( that's 5 to 16 Celsius).
Take care. Thanks for watching.
Alec
Yeah, temps are about right, in the summer at the surface we get up to 25C, but then we like to go deep to cool off in about 7-8°C Water.
This solution is what almost all divers use herearound. Primary 1st with Primary 2nd plus BCD or Drysuit inflator attached, plus in my case Suunto Pressure sensor (wireless). Secondary 1st with Octopus plus "the other inflator ;)" plus classical pressure gauge.
I'm not cynical about my LDS, I'm pretty sure she's competent. And it sounded more like Mares or the Distributor was making a fuzz about it than herself.
Keep up the good work!
Hey Alec, I always enjoy your videos. I just purchased the Scubapro MK25 EVO/S620Ti and I am wondering, does the titanium really add that much of an improvement with ease of breathing compared to the standard S600?
According to Scubapro's website " work of breathing has been reduced by 37% over the S600, providing effortless airflow under all dive conditions". Wondering how much is marketing hype under the most perfect conditions?
Tony Wood I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with the material.
I've no idea how they can claim that. The regs are almost identical, other than material and, in the second stage, that only applies to the barrel which is titanium instead of brass. Should have no effect!
37% decrease?! They don't explain why. I'll find out later today if there's any merit to it. Otherwise it's marketing hype or alternate facts as they say!
Titanium contributes nothing - zero - ziltch - to breathing. It is lighter, and maybe more corrosion resistant although that's overblown. Brass lasts forever. How much better than forever can it get?!
The only reason to buy titanium scuba gear is to reduce the weight.
You do need to be careful to watch for words like "titanium coated" or "titanium skin" or "titanium appearance" all of which tell you that the item is not titanium but only has a titanium outside or maybe only a flat, gray coating that LOOKS like titanium. The best way, although not foolproof, to know whether an item actually is titanium is to compare the price of the same item that is not titanium. The titanium item will cost about twice as much.
Alec
The ease of breathing might be from the reworked inlet shape.
" The full titanium inlet tube is ultra-light, the large purge button improves water circulation, and the new exhaust tee increases performance while directing bubbles out of the field of view. "
I kind of figured it was marketing but oh well, looking forward to using it in a few weeks.
Thanks!
It's a great regulator Tony, no doubt. It's just in their enthusiasm to sell they tend to get a bit evasive and hyperbolic. That is, they tout performance increases without data or justification and their description really doesn't say much. It's insulting to anyone with technical knowledge.
The inlet tube being light is nice - no effect on performance; the large purge button makes it easier to find - no effect on performance; the new exhaust tee looks good and may get the bubbles back a bit: no effect on performance. I'm still looking for that 37%.
Alec
personal i realy refence to buy scubapro wail i never seen real negativ off them , as you can let fix it almost anywhere .also i find it not to expensiv . thanks for info
Scubapro has been around a long time with a great reputation. A good pick for an experienced diver.
Thanks so much Alec. I purchased an Atomic Reg with an Combo BCD inflator and safe second. I paid $300 for that combo safe second. After reading this, I took the Oceanic safe second off of my old Reg and attached it to the new Reg. I am still in the return period and will be returning the Atomic combo second/inflator for full refund. I did this for both my wife's and my setups....Total savings of $600. Thanks!
Well I didn't make the video to save you money but, what the heck.
My philosophy of safe seconds is pretty well know - they're fantastic (I kick myself regularly for not think it) but, assuming you're never going to use and, if you do, it's only for a couple of minutes, why spend $300 on it? Get the least expensive, reliable safe second you can.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
Poseidon xstream in SM would be nice, can't mix it with other brand though.
You're right Tom. It's possible to mix Poseidon parts. It just takes a bit more care and time.
It's always best to NOT change the factory determined IP. The entire first stage is designed to give appropriate air flow at a fixed IP. It's preferable where possible to tune the second stage to the IP. It's at the second stage the breathing effort is determined. The IP actually has little to do with breathing effort. Some regulator first stages run IP at 120 psi while other are designed for 160 psi. A second stage can be adjusted for either.
I have seen lots of divers come in for service and complaining that the reg breaths hard. They say that they have turned up the IP as high as possible and it still is hard. Bad!! Increasing the IP on a standard reg can actually make it harder to breath!!
The procedure to adjust the IP and then set the second stage for easy breathing is not complicated. But, the science and technology behind the design of the first stage which involves the materials used, the spring size and rebound, the orifice sizes, the O-rings, the surface area of seats, even the size and material of the filter, all contribute to proper, consistent, flow at varying pressures. No dive store technician can begin to understand much less modify a first stage easily without getting into problems. Realize that a first stage delivers a smooth, consistent flow of air at a fixed pressure regardless of the depth which greatly affects the density of the air flowing through it or the tank pressure which can be anywhere from 3500 psi to 150 psi. Pretty incredible device and development.
Alec
Jajajaja.... never heard about the "Safe Second" !! Is it a West Coast Term ??
I actually am just getting used to the term. We called it an octopus for many years.
However, octopus actually refers to the entire regulator system with all of it's hoses hanging off - like an octopus.
Octopus was a derogatory term at first. Like "darn regulator starting to look like an octopus!" Many divers rejected the idea of a Safe Second for a long time saying that they'd rely on Buddy breathing. I'd like to think that's changed. Buddy Breathing is not taught anymore and, having done it for a long, long time, I'm glad to see it gone.
So the regulator with all of it's hoses hanging around is an octopus and the piece that your buddy puts into his mouth if he runs out of air is a Safe Second - as opposed to the Primary Second.
Take care.
Alec
Only thing about mixing brands is that your dive shop may not be able to service your set.
Aqualung has an ABS octo which is what XS Scuba copied, essentially. I have an Aqualung primary, so I just got an Apeks Egress for ~$70 more than the XS.
Not a huge amount of money in an equipment intensive sport like Scuba.
Mixing brands is not bad and doesn't create a performance issue. I'm not advocating it but in certain cases, it may be the only option. Hopefully, your LDS can service whatever 1st or 2nd you have installed.
The XS Scuba AltAir, their safe second or octopus, is unique. It may look similar but it is NOT the same as any other such device on the market.
The design and performance are as good or better than most but certain features place it on the top of the list. It comes with a Quik-Detach, Fastex-style clip. You don't have to buy a separate octo holder. That clip fits directly into most brand name BCDs or, by attaching the included snap clip, it will clip onto any BCD made.
Also, it is the only (that I know of) octo that has the mouthpiece directly in line with the hose, a great design feature. With this simple innovation, the AltAir is the easiest octopus to deploy. There is no fumbling to orient the mouthpiece to your mouth. It's as simple as eating a banana - grab the hose and stick it straight into your mouth. There's no up, no down, no right or left - grab it, jam it, suck!!
Try it and you'll agree.
Take care.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter It's a great octopus I'm sure, it's just that my local dive store doesn't work on XS Scuba regs.
The Apeks Egress is essentially the same thing as the AltAir, with a 45* angle mouth piece and the same inline design. Even the same Miflex hose! Works great, and it can be serviced alongside my Aqualung primary.
Love your videos Alec!
How you feel about a zeagle50d reg
It is not my practice to rate scuba gear as there are always pros/cons to gear. Best to try the reg and others, to feel how it breaths and if you're comfortable with its features.
I would not recommend other brand second stages with Poseidon first stages !!! Poseidons usually have a much higher intermediary pressure than most 1st stages, leading to free-flowing secondary stages !!!
Quite right. Generally, the Poseidon regs have an IP of 160psi rather than 135-150. There is a reason for that which is beyond the space limitations of this format but regardless, it is not easy nor the best idea to mix and match with Poseidon.
Alec
Robbie McGill
Good call there, that is what I have is and a PTA to find a shop in USA to service it I have found.
Hi Alec, I've been diving for a while now my girlfriend just started diving, but we found a "small problem", after every dive, her BCD has quite a bit of water inside, about 3-4 times as much as mine. What advice should I give her to help about it? I think the BCD should be fine, its almoast new, scubapro brand. I know it's probably not something to worry about but still I am a bit puzzled about why it hapens.
regards from Slovenia, Blaž
New divers use their power inflator a lot - way too much.
But it's normal for a new diver. As she gains confidence and maybe with some positive encouragement from you, she'll use it less and less and I think you'll find she has less water in it.
Water enters the BC when you dump air. You dump air when you've used the power inflator. Ergo, regular use of the power inflator equals water in the BC.
See if I'm not right. But don't give her a hard time about it. It's normal. I don't want her thinking she's not a good diver.
Take care. Alec
Ok, so we'll just keep diving and gain experience :) Thank you for your reply and great videos!
Yes they Cary air in the pipes thought it may be possible. But all stores don't recommend it.
It's like light bulbs, they all fit the same socket so why is one good/bad?
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter
Thank you for that Alec.
On a similar theme,.
Computer transmitters is it possible to phaise say a suunto transmitter, with say scubapro dive computer. Or is this not possible. And with other manufactures also.
Or is there something in the software to stop this happening. Your thoughts on this would be interesting ☺️
@@kurtsteiner8384 The internal hardware and software will be encoded to transmit/receive specifically to work only with the same brand. Similar to how different radio stations can transmit at the same time without interfering with each other, the receiver and transmitter have to be tuned to be on the same frequency. In theory it could be possible to adapt a transmitter/computer or build one from scratch, but you would have to know how the software interpreted the signals at each end.
Hi Alex, thank you for your video. It is very useful to me. However, i have a question that no one can help me with and I don't know if you will see this comment.
I am using Atomic B2 (great regulator by the way) and i notice that i can blow air into my low pressure hose when i am not purging it.. not sure if it's leaking or it is because of the regulator is "balanced" does it mean that it need to be service ? or it's just normal.
Will appreciate it if you can help me out. nobody seems to know why this happens
Shamus Tung its working fine. its called the seat saving orifice. can only rinse pressurized because lf that
a feature on atomic regs. can be gkkd for saving seats but a pain in the behind for rinsing
Ah i see, thank you very much for the information!
The Atomic second stage (note I said stage singular - they only have 1 first stage and 1 second stage and simply add or remove "features" on the second to give it a different name. The basic reg is the same.) has a feature that, contrary to their sales hype is NOT exclusive, that they call "Seat Saving". With this design, when the regulator is off the tank (no pressure), the second stage seat is not sealed. You can therefore suck on the second stage and get air or blow and air will go out - a bit - not enough to breath but you can notice it.
Not a bad idea at all but it does cause that odd effect and it's also is the reason why they tell you to NOT rinse the second stage when it's not under pressure - the same as not pressing the purge on a regulator while rinsing.
I think I've debunked the theory that lots of water will rush up the reg hose and flood the first stage in either case in one of my videos, but there's no reason to not follow the manufacturer's advice.
Alec
Thank you sir, your explanation is very clear. it will definitely be a pain in the back not rinsing while it is not pressurized.
Shamus.
isnt scubapro made in italy like cressi? or used to be idk
Like most manufacturers today, not just scuba, many if not most products are made in a dozen places. Scubapro was originally an Italian company and headquarters is still there. However, their products come from all over the world. Softwear (masks, snorkels, fins) can be from anywhere in Europe or even the Far East, wetsuits again are not likely made in Italy, computers come from Sweden (or is it Finland?) and so on. That's not necessarily bad since Scubapro personally guarantees every item. And they are perhaps the most careful to research, develop and test products.
Alec
There are great dive leaders, then 100 ft above there is Alec.
Appreciate the feedback Mauricio. Just sharing my decades of experience to help others (notice no ads or like/subscribe requests?).
Alec
You must be a mind reader Alec as this is a question I've had on and off for a long time. I recall the dive store when I was buying my first set (Apeks XTX200) many years ago saying it wasn't safe to mix them. Though, they knew I was new to diving (2 days into my open water) and that I wanted a good regulator.
What's funny is I passed my open water in all of my own equipment with the exception of weight belt and air cylinder and was the only student to do so!
As always another great video, this could lead into another idea for you.
Could the actual regulator differences between Air, Nitrox and Trimix make enough of a video? Companies will sell you a different 1st and 2nd stages set just for the said purpose.
All the best for now.
Alec mentioned that before in one of his video (maybe the 300 vs 800 regulator). Exactly the same regulator between air (21% oxygen) and Nitrox (typically 32, or 36%). Only tanks - and therefore the valves o-rings which can be swapped, and inside cleaned - will need to be Oxygen clean IFF your shop pre-filled with pure oxygen (which is highly flammable) then ad normal air afterward, instead of pre-mixed 32% nitrox going into any regular tanks. Most of my boat dives I do nitrox (easier to do 6 dives a day, repeatedly) and everyone uses a regular tank as it's pre-mixed - only reason to have the green Nitrox band is to mark it as special so someone else doesn't just grab it and thinks it's normal air (nitrox has depth limits that can starts around 110ft so not very deep).
Alain Dumesny
Hi Alain, I was more thinking when purchasing new, what would be the differences, there seems to be quite a premium for the green coloured logos for example.
Thanks for the response, I do recall the original once you refresh my memory 😊
Right Alain.
Within reason (up to 40% oxygen) any regulator will do the same job regardless of the gas mix. None of the gases we use are corrosive or flammable. I know you said that oxygen is flammable but I know that you know it's only an accellerant. That is, it will hasten or increase the likelihood of a fire. It doesn't actually burn itself.
When you decide to try nitrox or any mixed gas, you MAY need to prepare your regulator for that gas. You have 2 choices - properly clean your current regulator or buy a reg that's already cleaned and ready to go. That's one of those green ones. Your choice.
My suggestion? Unless you need or want to buy a new reg, get your current regulator properly cleaned for Nitrox use and add a green mouthpiece and/or hoses.
Bingo! Just saved some money and you're all set.
Alec
so what does properly clean for Nitrox means ? remove any oil and such ? I bought a brand new regulator (so no need to 'green' it) but an old octo, bcd/drysuit connector, and old sunnto computer and occasionally dive 32% nitrox (boat trips, no need of expense on local 2 dives a day). Nobody seems to have 'green' gear on the boats - makes you wonder if it isn't shops trying to sell you serivce you don't really need for typical 32% nitrox ?
New regulators are typically ready to go for Nitrox to 40%. How long they stay that clean is another topic entirely.
If you've taken an Enriched Air (Nitrox) Course, they should have explained and demonstrated proper cleaning. Essentially it means an entire overhaul, cleaning and rebuild using oxygen compatible parts.
If your regulator been serviced (for Nitrox or not) and you're using only pre-mix less than 40%, your regulator is OK to go.
Alec
Only thing i could think of is if your divestore only service some brands it could be problematic with different brands..
Generally a dive store sells and services a limited number of brands. Years ago you could buy almost any brand at any store. But today a store will usually try to find 2 or 3 brands that they feel will work well in their sales area and that they have training, parts and tools for. Also manufacturers usually qualify stores before just allowing them to sell their brands.
It's a good idea. The store that carries everything seldom has all the items offered by all of the manufacturers. They probably do NOT have trained service people for eveny brand (just Bob in the back who can fix anything!!! Right now he's fixing the toilet!) and even the sales people are not knowledgeable about the products. They will sell you whatever you want (if you know what you want) or what they want to get rid of (if you don't ).
At our store we will service the 3 main brands that we stock and sell and maybe another 1 or 2 that we represent. Any other we will take to an authorized dealer for service. This is partly for convenience (ours AND the customer), partly for business reasons (we have to order in odd parts) and partly for liability reasons.
Alec
What about mixing different model first and second stages. Ive got an old scubapro mk 5. I know the second stage is in good workable condition but im not sure about the first stage. Im thinking about buying a more modern first stage to go with it
It's usually no problem to mix and match. Most hoses and ports are compatible.
You simply have to be sure the IP from the 1st stage is set properly and then adjust the breathing effort at the second to match that IP.
I have shown you both of those procedures in my videos.
Good luck.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thank you for the speedy reply, absolutely love your videos! Because of you i am now addicted to sea hunt!
Yes, Scubapro is an American Brand but it is manufactured in Italy. How a 50 year pro does not know this is beyond me. Nothing XS or Oceanic makes is manufactured in America, it all comes from overseas, and mostly Taiwan or China.
The manufacturing standards including materials, construction and perfomance for all scuba gear sold in North America is the same regardless of the country of manufacture.
I'm not sure what you're trying to suggest here. Is it Made in America that you want to see because that's a non-starter. Not even Scubapro is made in the US, as you've pointed out.
Heck. US Divers gear is not made in the US!!
Alec
While his comments about fitting universal size items to most any regulator is factually true, why would you place a $50 "safe second" on a top performing $800 regulator. The logic does not fly. Gorgeous flex hose... is a cheap poorly made Chinese hose and a crappy 2nd. Think twice before doing this.
There's nothing wrong with using a Scubapro octopus on their system. It'll work just fine.
As I indicated, however, the logic of spending extra money for something that you will probably never use escapes me.
And the XS octopus (others too) have features that are really nice to have on your Safe Second - features that Scubapro has not adopted on their octopus models yet.
So for 1/2 the cost you can have a Safe Second that is easier to use, lighter, better-looking and just as reliable. Where's the beef??
You are quite right about the source of most scuba goods. The vast majority come from the far east. None are made in the US, a couple in France and England and a few in Italy.
If that concerns you, I suggest you stay off the highways since the vast majority of the vehicles we all drive also come from the same sources!!
When I became a diver, almost everything was made in the US. For economic reasons that's no longer the case and the scuba equipment made today is more reliable and longer-lasting.
That "crappy 2nd" is virtually identical to Scubapro's own R195. They ever share parts!
I'm not completely convinced that Made in Italy is a confidence builder!
You've contributed to this channel before Joel and with insightful comments. Cheap shots are not your style. This 'old pro' not only knows that Scubapro gear is largely made in Italy (except for some of their accessories that come from Japan) but he also knows the names and background history of the guys who started it including the companies they all came from (and that are now out of business).
Did you know that the first Scubapro regulator was a re-branded Healthways? Even Scubapro executives don't know that or refuse to admit it. It's great gear and your loyalty is admirable but it surely isn't the only great scuba gear out there.
So, if you think its best to have an expensive, same-brand Safe Second, go crazy. Store Owners love divers like you.
My suggestion is still quite valid for most divers.
Take care.
Alec
He is only showing us that it is possible, he is not suggesting anything, only showing possibilities. Will YOU please make some CZcams videos so you can show the diving world how everything is supposed to be done. Then we can be overly critical of your videos and pick them apart for silly reason?