Buses! A day at Transport Museum Wythall for WMPTE 30
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- čas přidán 15. 07. 2024
- A break from cars as I spend a joyous day amongst the buses and locations of my childhood - and some older buses too.
Marvel at Walsall 56 - the V6 Cummins powered monster Daimler Fleetline, MCW Metrobus action and a pair of screaming Volvo Ailsas. These buses cover the days from WMPTE to West Midlands Travel (WMT) formed 30 years ago. The 'buzzes' of Birmingham have never looked so good.
Footage includes in-bus and outside-bus footage. Come for a ride! - Auta a dopravní prostředky
MCW Metrobus: I knew what it was before the caption appeared! I'd recognise that sound anytime despite not having heard it for around 20 years. My mate Daz and me were obsessed with them, they were streets ahead of anything else we'd experienced at the time. They gave the feeling that the suspension actually gave a damn about the occupants and the poor driver who of course was sat in the thing all day. However, having spoken to a few drivers at the time they didn't seem to be very keen on them which suprised me. They were relatively quiet, smooth and comfortable but that soft suspension (by bus standards) apparently made them a bit of a handful!
In an earlier comment I was waxing lyrical about the AEC Regent V's run by A.Mayne and sons of Clayton, Manchester and I also mentioned the Fleetlines they bought in 1976. These were the most bog-standard I've ever seen. Formica pine-effect interior panelling, crimson vinyl seats and no optional comforts whatsoever. It came as a suprise to find they had a heater! And that was exactly why I liked them. Even by public transport standards they were low-rent. I was to subsequently discover however, they had a surprising turn of speed. Maybe all the penny pinching led to significant weight saving, maybe they specced more power with the money saved by not having velour upholstery downstairs, I dunno.
By contrast, the Bristol VR's they bought in late '79 had velour high-back seats upstairs and down and were posher than anything run by GMPTE at the time. Now they were quick, ride comfort wasn't bad either although not on the same level as the Metrobus. The drivers loved them! They shared duty with the Fleetlines as our ride to high school while I was there from 1980-85.
Modern buses are incredible, the engineering is superb but I feel something has been lost: character and quirkyness. The garish upholstery hurts my eyes and their slightly muted audio signature fails to inspire interest. They're made to do a job which they do superbly, no complaints there but I can't see the preservation societies falling over themselves to save them when the grim reaper beckons...
I suppose we should be thankful for the buses preserved so far and hope we're allowed to enjoy them for some time to come before they are inevitably deemed by the powers that be as unsuitable for road use due to them belching nasty diesel fumes and public transport goes electric...
...I'm not completely averse to moderñ buses. One interesting development is the hybrid buses run by Stagecoach Manchester. For a start, the upholstery is a dark-ish green patterned in amber which is much easier on the eye than the blue white and orange upholstery that the rest of the fleet rocks. It is a vague match to the two-tone green and white exterior livery. Relatively tasteful although not as visually arresting as the orange with brown pattern of 1970's and 80's GMPTE buses.
What makes them different though is their power delivery. These are the first hybrid vehicles I've been in and they give the bizarre feeling of accelerating strongly while the engine speed remains constant or even falls during acceleration. I find it endlessly intriguing! Also, I reckon in years to come they may well become appealing to preservation societies because they're the first of their kind in revenue earning service.
They're only used on selected routes at the moment, I think as a long term test of the breed but if they're anything to go by, I can see their use increasing. I do hope so.
One thing about these old buses, was they had their own character, when it came to noise, buses now all sound the same to me, that's what I think anyway.
These kind of date from the last period I was a regular bus user. Excellent to look at and such nostalgia. Plus they have ash trays and NO BLOODY WIFI !!
I wish the buses that I commuted to work on when I was younger had wifi and smartphones.
do buses have WiFi...
I dint know
That National 2 sounds amazing.
The National 1s used to amuse me more...still recall seeing boardmen and drivers kicking the back ends to get them started (there was a switch or solenoid in there used to get stuck). God that takes me back...
The floral plastics so remind me of travelling into town on these busses in the 80s
That National 2 sounds great. So does the one with the Cummins V6. Love the noise of old lorry engines etc.
The noises are quite remarkable. Each bus had such a different character back then.
My dad was a Hockley Garage bus driver for 30+ years. Took him to Wythall year or two before he died, he loved it...
That screaming Volvo Alisa takes me right back. Great stuff.
A very reminiscent video Ian which I have just watched in October 2022. I visited Wythall for the first time for the "BCT" event a fortnight ago, and have to say I loved it. After moving from Coventry to Merioneth in 1971 I had a brief period of Crosville Bristols before N and P reg nattionals replaced them.
Moved to Walsall / Wednesbury area in Summer 1980 and discovered the delights of WMPTE. My faves were the Bristol VRs which were subtly different to the Fleetlines. I did have a few trips on the "mini Jumbos" as well as the pukka Jumbos of both types. Gradually the Metrobuses swept away all my old faves, then they were banished by newer stuff and I lost interest. A colleague at work mentioned the Wythall days so I vowed to take my mate who hails from Smerrick.
We had a fantastic time and I really enjoyed the "happy hour" in the afternoon when they chucked out a whole pile of BCT and WMPTE buses on the pretext of match day. They had Villa Park, Hawthornes and St Andrews in the blinds and thrashed up and down between Becketts Farm and the Maypole island, just as they did in you video. My top bus was VR 4413 but I really enjoyed the others.
Whilst at Wythall I got chatting to the owners / operators of Metrobus 2636 and they showed me a feature I never knew existed on some of them. There was a panel which normally locked to the rear of the staircase assembly but could be swung round and locked against the aperture of the staircase to stop the upstairs being used at nighttime. You learn summat everyday !!!
Thanks again Ian
i had the pleasure of travelling on many of these buses when Yorkshire traction ran Barnsley's transport until Stagecoach took over. Bristol VR's (my Favourite) Leyland nationals and Olympians were the staple of the fleet for years, then later the MCW Metro bus which took me to school everyday, im bloody envious!!
These old red vinyl seats remind me of the old red edinburgh buses when I was growing up in everything from Nationals, Atlanteans, Olympian's, up until about 2000 Lothian's fleet were running Olympian's both Leyland and Volvo. That's one thing I have missed this year is the annual open day and running day that Lothian usually do.
Thanks for this, but blimey, now I really feel like an old git. 366 was one of the Wumpty buses I took to school from Little Aston to Wylde Green. Had to change at the Parade Sutton Coldfield.
The best memory is that our school chartered à bus every week to take us to Kingstanding sports ground for football (which I bloody hated) it always seems to be foggy, wet and cold. We used to fart around so much on the top deck that after a while the driver's thick brummy accent would boom up the stairs:
"Stop messing about oopstairs or oim stopping this bus and yer can all walk home".
He'd been watching us through his periscope from the drivers cab haha...
Would love to visit. Super sounds and sight. Thanks for this nice video. Cheers 👍
Childhood memories; a local operator here in Manchester, A. Mayne and sons had 3 AEC Regent V's and some Fleetlines, later a couple of Bristol VR's. The Regent V was my favourite. These were from 1961 and tired by the time I was riding on them. They kept one and had it restored. A.Mayne and sons are no more but the restored Regent V is now in the Manchester Museum of Public Transport. And it's absolutely pristine.
When I was commuting into Aston University we always preferred the Fleetlines to Metro boxes. Much more fun.
WARNING: loads of bus-related waffle below. Please look away now if this stuff bores one to death lol
This was the first vid of yours I ever watched, Ian. And still one of my faves; my pick of this lot are undoubtedly the two Ailsas (TOE 527N (4527) & JOV 738P (4738), both beautifully preserved by the 4738 Group. The former is the oldest surviving Ailsa in preservation, the latter the first of the production batch of Ailsas WMPTE took), the B15 Titan (with it's 'sneezomatic' transmission/gearbox; Glasgow's last off-the-shelf Atlanteans delivered in 1981 had a similar set-up), the National 2 (the one featured being retrofitted with a DAF 1160 lump. Lovely proper growl from that), the Metrobus (with it's Gardener/Voith symphony in full evidence) and that monstrous Cummins V6-powered Fleetline; agricultural isn't the word!
Further to the Walsall Fleetline (long screed below, best brew a cuppa while reading this part!), the Cummins V6 that powers it was also used to power the Daimler Roadliner full-size single-decker, one of the most notorious failures in the history of the British bus industry, tied with the Guy Wulfrunian (front-engined and front-entrance double-deck design much like the Ailsa, but with a full-size Gardener 6LX lump as opposed to the Ailsa's relatively small turbocharged TD70 unit crammed up front. Think of the Leyland Victory Mk.2 and the Dennis Jubilant, but far more maintance-intensive) for that title. Most of the Roadliner's problems were in fact tied to that V6 engine, for it was originally designed with marine applications in mind and didn't take well to the intensive stop/start nature of bus work and catastrophic failures were commonplace (common faults were overheating, fouling of the bullet type fuel injectors, piston failure & cracked cylinder liners). In addition, the Daimatic semi-auto gearbox simply couldn't cope with the amount of power the V6 originally put out (190-195bhp) and the brake bands burning out and even full-on gearbox fires became common faults; so much so that Cummins derated the engines in service buses to 150bhp in an attempt to prolong the life of the transmission. What also didn't help was that the Roadliner suffered from serious body flexing issues when affixed with a bus body (coaches were also built atop Roadliners), due to the rear-end of the chassis frame being redesigned in haste to enable the Cummins lump to be mounted vertically & in-line; many Roadliners with bus bodies were withdrawn prematurely with terminal chassis cracks/fractures at the rear as a result. The Roadliner prototype saw a turbo-charged variant of Daimler's own CD diesel engine being utilized, mounted in line & horizontally. With the benefit of hindsight, Daimler then shot themselves in the foot by ending mass production of this engine, and with Gardener being unable/unwilling to supply engines without a hefty premium attached, Daimler eventually entered an agreement with Cummins in the US to supply engines at a reasonable cost, and the rest is history. Just as an example, Bournemouth Corporation suffered 17 engine failures inside the warranty period. So determined were Cummins to resolve the chronic reliabilty issues that they sent engineers from Indiana to the various major Roadliner operators (Bournemouth & Potteries Motor Traction to name two) to work alongside their engineers to try and find a permanent solution (staff at the main Cummins plant in Darlington also worked tirelessly to cure the engine's faults), but it was all for naught. They admitted that the V6 just wasn't suited to the stop/start nature of bus work. As a result of this sorry saga, both Cummins' and Daimler's reputation were dealt a severe blow, although the former would eventually return and gradually come to dominate the market with the Leyland/Volvo Olympian, MCW Metrobus & Metrorider, Dennis Dart, Dominator, Javelin & Trident all being Cummins-powered (or at least having the option to be in the case of the Olympian, Metrobus & Dominator).
With Cummins admitting defeat and with B.L. & Daimler eventually dropping the Cummins option outright as a result, the search was on to find a suitable alternative. Perkins & AEC were the only ones who could offer an engine that would fit, as the Leyland & Gardener offerings simply wouldn't fit. The Perkins' V8 510 (basically a derated truck unit), while reliable, was ferociously thirsty when fitted to a bus chassis and the AEC V8 800 series design, while a unit that showed promise, was rushed into production on B.L's orders before it was given a chance to be fully developed & proven (where have we heard that before?), reliabilty suffered as a result.
The bus version of the Roadliner ceased production first (being replaced by a single-deck version of the Fleetline), leaving the coach version as the only Roadliner option available, but this too ended in 1972 after the last Roadliners were built for export to South Africa. As far as is known, only two Roadliners survive in the UK, both in preservation thankfully. These are ex-Wolverhampton Corporation NJW 719E (719; new June 1967 and still with a Cummins V6) & ex-Bournemouth Corporation KRU 55F (55; new September 1967 and refitted with a Perkins V8 in a bid to improve reliabilty). For the benefit of yon ears, I've linked a brief clip of the latter below: this Roadliner truly has to be heard to be believed! czcams.com/video/p921NO1n538/video.html
As a Walsall lad born-n-bred, thats taken me straight back to my childhood. So lovely to hear lots of familiar sounds once again. Bliss!! :-)
So nostalgic those sounds, noises, rattles etc bring back so many memories from my childhood and school years.
Thanks Ian.
I can't believe some of the stuff that's preserved now. Oxford Bus museum has a B10 Verde that I remember in front line service when I was driving with COMS. It's currently still in school bus yellow, but I'm sorely tempted to volunteer to paint it back into its proper colours.
Yep. A lot of the stuff in Wythall museum is stuff I used to travel on regularly. Fleetlines, Metrobuses, and now 4001, the Spectra is in the museum! I'm getting old...
I seem to be a late in discovering this upload but what a awesome video. I must admit I do have a soft spot for the Leyland national.
I remember the National 1's being introduced by Plymouth Council. A big improvement over their fleet of Atlanteans since the Nationals had far better performance. They retained the Atlanteans on high-traffic routes, whilst the Nationals were popular on the more lightly - used routes. The National 2's were just being introduced as I finished my A-levels, so I had a meagre 3 month's travel on what were fantastic single-deckers (for the day). Definitely miss these.
That was beardy nerdy cool! Thanks :)
very elegant designs there, thanks for the video
Just spotted myself on the metrobus. I’m the one in grey coat the second in front of you. Me and my friends also had our bus there on that day too the Volvo b6. S669VOA.
Thank you so much for posting this video , it was very Emotional for my self to watch becuas my father drove every one of these buses as he was a BUS DRIVER for West Midlands Transport and also drove the school bus so i was lucky enough to stand by him at the cab , His fav was the VOLVO that noise was so distinctive and it was probably the fastest bus out of all these , He was Lucky enough to drive the Newer buses when they went all automatic ,unfortunately he passed away in 2009 he would have so loved to watch this video , SO THANK YOU AGAIN
Now then. As I spent around 30 years ferrying the Great British Public around most of these buses I have driven. My favourite by far was the National such a brilliant bus terrible overhang at the rear around 11 foot I believe. Not great for Cambridges narrow roads. The mk2s I drove had no rear pod on the roof. One of them on the fleet would hit 80mph scary stuff. I wonder if the old girl is still around 303 where are you. Surprised not to see a Bristol VR as they were so popular. In the 80s there was a fantastic range of vehicles in most companies either Manual Semi Auto and Fully Automatic. Semi Auto was my favourite easy in traffic but you still could thrash the life out of them. There is no finer noise than a Mk1 National at full chat in 3rd gear. Absolutely soul stirring. When I see a National it brings back the Nostalgia. Buses now are so boring.
Just found this gem. I don’t know how I missed it. The Leyland National 1 & 2. Soundtrack of my childhood going to work with my Mum in the school hols and later into town with my mates. There’s something very unique & cosy about the sound of a National. Think I’ve just become a bus nerd! Thanks for this. Now back to up to date Hubnut! 👍🏼
This takes me back to my school days 👍.
nice to see some historic vehicles, when i was on the buses the bristol vr was my favourite powerful enginealso the leyland olympian or limpalong as we called them, an ex london daimler fleetline wwith two doors that would only do about 40 ah the memories.
I do like a bit of bus action...
Bloody hell, that takes me back a bit!
Fantastic video. I do love old buses and coaches. Would like to visit here one day
Great video. I really enjoyed it.
Good compilation, very well put together :)
Very cool!!! Remember a few of these on the school runs, fab ❤️ Paul our parakeet loved the noises too 😂
I miss the Leyland Olymians and Atlantians that used to run around Bradford in the 80's.
Oh man, Haven't Been on an Mcw MetroBus Now for about best part of 18 years. Back then I used to be sick to death of the damned things. Only Recently messing around on you tube I suppose I have come across excellent videos like yours where after all this time I am starting to miss them. The miles I must of covered when I was younger on a metro Bus or a Leyland Lynx must be crazy. Modern Buses today are quite impressive however I Truely do feel nothing will ever beat a metro Bus for how long they lasted in service. Even if they did have a midlife rebuild.
One day I will ride a Metro bus once again. Great Video 👍🏻
lovely selection clearly a lot of buses running to ride on. Some fine engine sounds, here in Middlesbrough the Corporation ran Fleetlines with Northern Counties bodies so your early clip sounded familiar, though fewer squeaks as those bodies had lots of squeeze formica panels inside
Used to love going there when I lived in the UK. At the time I worked for Midland Fox. Once went on an excursion with Wheels of Nuneaton from Leicester on a BMMO D9, tracing the old Midland Red 658 route from my childhood. Which was supposed to be between Leicester & Coventry, but we stopped off at the Midland Red South garage in Nuneaton before continuing to Wythall. Was about 1993 or 94 I think.
Don't know Nuneaton very well... even if I was born there! LOL
Thanks for sharing those luvlee sound effects...!
Omg I loved getting the 144 midland red home. Can still smell the chips and Diesel 😂 the leyland Lynx was a game changer. They seemed quicker
One of those fleetliners has the osr valance damaged underneath due to turning left at the mill pub in West Bromwich all those years ago, it was onto a gradient and the right hand rear used to catch on the floor, we used to watch them do it when we were kids. Was around about 1978 to about 82. I went to the museum ages ago, recognised the registration number and checked, and sure enough it was damaged.
The Mcw Metrbus reminds me of Summer holidays in Stone Cross in the 80s and bussing it with Nan and Grandad all over the Midlands. They felt like a tough machine 😀
Lovely!!!!
Yes Leyland National 2 are nice, they used to use one near me for horse race course event staff transport.
Nice old busses, San Francisco is a collector of trolly cars 1800s to now. They fix up old ones from around the world as well as building copies of their cable cars.
You could make some wonderful videos there.
I enjoyed watching the famous double deck buses from the U.K.
Your fan from L.A.U.S.A.
Rich & kitty 🐱
They kept them Layland nationals going for years.. I remember riding on them things.. I miss the sound of the classic buses me :(. I Always thought the National 2s Looked so mean lol.
i liked the RE buses
the National was most like my memories of rainy days (and school summer holidays) spent riding a 68 (or the 109),
me an a mate would get a red bus rover for 60p and ride it across London,
jump off,
get more sweets (visit train station bogs) then get back on it again.
i like the sounds
I miss the old Leyland Nationals, but at the same time don't miss them, they're a love/hate bus, last time I was on one was a (now out-of-business) Pennine liveried bus, which I think was featured in a film (full monty?) before it went for scrap (but I think was saved eventually), before they were replaced with dodgy old dennis darts or whatever they were...
Pennine are no more
similar to the buses i used to get to and from school with the standard 4 speed, one driver used to let me stand next to him and change gears on thee way home :D
really good video
thanks
You're welcome.
Very nice channel :)
That was interesting.
Im vice versa ive always been into buses but i like my cars as well.
When buses were buses and were build to last can't beat a good old Leyland' best buses ever
Forty two years with my particular (bus) firm (and them that bought it) so far...could retire on full pension next year and am very tempted...
CMT here in Liverpool ran Nationals for years, they even towed with one! My mate was towed in a broken down Lynx by the National all the way back from St Helens till the bar snapped off the towing vehicle and carved a neat line down the east lancs Rd before the handbrake stopped it! I used to drive ex London Titans for MTL north, wonderful noise but cold on a 4.30am early in winter.
The Lynx was a terrible replacement for the National a truly God awful bus. The only thing I liked about the Lynx was the Acceleration
@@LancashireBob I only ever drove one Lynx, your right about the acceleration! Half a duty on the 19b, Gilmoss had 2 of them after Arriva took over, don't think they lasted long.
@@andicog The company I worked for at the time was Miller's of Foxton. They bought four brand new. F registered. Even so they rattled like crazy had a terrible gearbox that could not make its mind up what to do. The ride was terrible on country roads. And to top it off the build quality was laughable. The old Nationals were so much better to take out on shift
WOW
Ah buses. My real territory. Grew up with a mix of Guy Arab 3’s & 4’s, AEC Regent V’s, Leyland PD2/3 followed by Atlanteans, Fleetlines and the fantastic sounding Volvo B55 Ailsa followed by Dennis Dominators. It certainly whet my appetite for buses and I have subsequently driven all manner of PCV vehicles from 1940’s Leyland Tiger coaches to brand new £300K touring coaches and pretty much everything in between. My faves have to be RM’s, Regent V’s and the Ailsa. Do like a nice Gardner engined VR or Olympian too (essentially an updated VR but none the worse for that). Quite fancy a bus ride out this aft. Any passengers?
They should put these back in service
Hi, like others I came across this late bus just had to comment, I drove busses coaches for best part of 30years so see some changes but must say my favourite bus coach was a leyland tiger, it pulled like stink off the clock if you let it thanks mark
Hi I also have 30 odd years of driving experience in the industry both buses and coaches. One company I worked for had 3 brand new Tigers all Hi line for use on National Express. Semi automatic went like stink. Within 2 weeks the tiger badge from the steering wheel had been pinched by the drivers. And by 6 months all the rev counters had packed up. One thing about the tiger was the terrible drum brakes overheating in the summer. Scary stuff when you couldn't use the semi gearbox to slow them up. If you select a gear that was not suitable they just defaulted to neutral
The Volvo Ailsa. The fastest bus ever built.
I was a bus driver in the 80s and I hated the Leyland nationals, sharp braking, terrible gear change and don't get me started about them in the wet and the snow !!! I had many a near miss !!
The Titan has the fully auto box as it 'sneezes' when changing gear. You could hold the gears though if you wanted to. Most of the ones were featured were semi automatic.
Just approved this. For some reason, your posts keep getting picked up as Spam!
Neither do i.
The Alexander AV Ailsa body is sooo 70s
HubNut, what happened to all the Midland Red buses? I lived on a modern housing estate that replaced the factory up past Waterworks Road. Never seen any Midland Red heritage buses anywhere.
I do remember their coaches being Lotus Cortinas of the coach/bus world - I even saw footage of one blasting around a test track at high speed...lol
There are a few in preservation. I think there is a Midland Red National in this video.
Leyland National 1's and National 2's both had very distinctive sounds.
I wonder what gave them both their distinctive noises.
Not sure I miss Nat 1's exhaust fumes though... I too preferred the noise of the Nat 2's and the Range Rover style front grille...
Totally different engines in the mk1 and 2s. Also those mk1 engines were used in trains I think
Mk1's came as stock with Leyland's "Headless Wonder" the O.510 though many operators swapped in other engines DAF DK1160, Leyland O.680, Volvo TD100). The Mk 2 came with Leyland O.680.
@@taxus750 Mk1's always had that high pitched scream. The Mk2's were very baritone.
Did you ever see any of the Volvo buses with two rear axles? They were huge. Some may still be in service.
Sort of. czcams.com/video/8gjJ3RokqBc/video.html
Am I right to assume that the Volvo Ailsa had a 'Variomatic' belt system like you'd find in a DAF / Volvo 66/343 etc...? Oh, and Merry Christmas!
Alas it did not. Standard epicyclic semi-automatic I believe. The belt noise is the alternator belt I think. There's some odd jiggery-pokery involved with shafts in odd places.
CHECK OUT THE BRITISH AIRWAYS STICKER ON THAT BUS BIRMINGHAM TO PARIS £79 WOH!
Wow Ian i didn't know you liked buses.
I'm more into cars, but buses have always interested me.
HubNut If only you could road test one sometime.
That Wallsall 56 sounds great - sounds like it has real urge. Bit of a flyer?
Wasn't especially quick, but certainly sounded it. It's a lot of bus - 36ft and 86 seats. Pretty remarkable for the time.
sounds like my washing machine
TBH that Cummins V6 sounds really rough to me. Is it the original engine?
I thought the volvo noise was due to a one off gearbox?
It's driving me nuts. I am probably having false memories as I was a kid in the early 80s. But I have a memory of a bus like this model where there was a waste height partition in the middle of the isle to allow people to get on and off the bus via the same door. I can't find any footage of images of this setup. Did this ever exist?
I'm also looking for footage of the old caps from the 80s where they'd press a button for the change and it would slide down a slide.
Again, being young I'm not sure if any of these memories are real or just false ones.
I think London did experiment with buses that had partitions. As for change, I grew up in Birmingham, where the buses always were, and still remain, exact fare only. What a nonsense.
Definitely did exist. I have driven a few. Mostly ex London Transport
And regarding the change slide there are still a few old buses in service around here that have them. Usually spits it all over the floor
Ahhhh hubnut can you drive busses or vintage trucks cos that really lights my oil burning garage heater?
I would love to do a bus video. I have made several attempts, but not managed it yet.
Go to Ipswich Transport Museum
باصات لايلند البريطانيه
Does your government pay for hearing aids for the people who used to take these busses regularly?
Don Little
Sorry mate, whatger say? 😂😂
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