Why Trucks with Stick Shifts Are Going Extinct
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
- Why Trucks with Stick Shifts Are Going Extinct
In this video, we'll explore the fascinating history of truck transmissions, the reasons behind the shift to automatic, and the advantages and disadvantages of both transmission types. 📚
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▬▬▬ The video ▬▬▬
00:00 Start
00:40
Why Do Trucks Need Gears?
02:02 The Shift to
Automatic Transmissions
03:10
The History of Truck Transmissions
04:58 Advantages of automatic:
05:55 Disadvantages Of automatic:
06:30 The Future of Truck Transmissions
▬▬▬ Credit ▬▬▬
Peterbilt
/ peterbiltclasspays
Kenworth
/ @kenworthtruckco
▬▬▬ End ▬▬▬
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As a heavy haul specialist I will take the manual transmission over an automatic transmission any day
ABSOLUTELY !!!!
Whatever you say, big rigger.
i nearly read that wrong..@@foxtrot684
Automatics cause most jackknife accidents
I am not an everyday trucker but I was wondering about this fatigue he is talking about. How hard is it to change gears?
What I know is manual transmission keeps you alert and won’t upshift unexpectedly.
Most old school drivers used the clutch for initial take off only, all other changes were made without touching the clutch pedal. I would also suggest that constant gear changes helped the driver stay alert on long hauls.
That method worked twice as well for double clutch (unsynchronized) transmissions
Yeah, the automated transmission needs to get a new clutch every 400 to 500k miles. They cost about $4000 to $7000 to replace. You can get a reman trans for about that much.
The newest automated transmission can not even be serviced. It's a throw a way pos.
That's how I was taught to drive a standard transmission. The clutch is to start and stop only.
@cliffterrell4876 yep or if you're moving slow enough that you can't float gears i.e. on a construction site
How much gear shifting are you really doing on the interstate? Once I shifted into top gear and set my cruise control I never touched my gear shifter unless I needed to stop for a traffic jam. Not much staying alert there. That's why we have Coffee and a radio. I am not referencing a CB either I am talking about the real radio. Besides if you need to shift gears to stay alert you don't really need to be driving an 18 wheeler you should be parked in a truck stop. I am a professional driver I am always alert and aware of my surroundings. I have plenty to keep me alert, vehicles around me, gauges to watch, mirrors to watch. I constantly watch everything because if I see tire smoke I pull over. plus I look ahead 15 seconds and at night as far as I can see with my low beams on. Reason is if there is something that requires me to stop I need to react so I don't get into an accident.
There has also been a decline in professional drivers and a rise in steering wheel holders...let's not forget that.
I think that’s what many large companies want. Don’t have to pay them as much. Can bring in Visa drivers with little to no experience that they can control.
You nailed it!!
Steering wheel in one hand phone in the other hand no hands to shift with besides it is confusing to the new guys
@@ellsworthwhitehead2703 That's when they "shift" to automatic transmission so they can multi-task what is important to them 🙄😖
Well said.
I was a driver for 25 years and will always prefer a manual transmission. They don't cause fatigue as this vid suggests, it's more an exercise that helps keep drivers alert.
Amen to this statement 💯👍💯👍💯👍
I recently started driving an automated (they are not automatic lol). You are far more in tune with what the truck is doing with a manual. An automatic will send you into lala land because the truck is doing whatever it wants.
For these newer generation pansy drivers, it stresses them out because they have to critically think which they are totally unable to do. Therefore, more "fatigue" on these drivers.
me to, the autoshifter you tend to het the kingpin harder than you do with standard shifter.
@@Perich29 Docks as well.
Worked as truck+roadtrain driver for 12years in Scandinavia so I'd say I have 'some' experience (!)in driving hilly terrain and under icy conditions, oftentimes on farmland dirt roads or fields, and driven both transmissions of several brands. IMO autos cannot possibly beat a competent driver in shift points or engine braking, and those times I drove autos (drove manual regularly) I ended up being MORE EXHAUSTED from irritation caused by erratic shifts and behaviour caused by the auto transmissions. On slippery surfaces autos are downright helpless IMHO
On highway driving yes manual have more control but Try Chicago Los Angeles New York traffic in manual in rush hour.More than over automatic can be used in manual mode. With increasing number of vehicles on the road I don’t want to return to manual.
Drove heavies for over 40 years, lately been in automatics; I hate them. Give me a roadranger
Volvo and Mack have that E/P (P for performance) button which will help for higher RPM range.
same here, and I'm logging in the Alps offroad. Erratic shifts gettin' me nuts here. Even the "manual mode" is insuffcient often times tbh :S
Driven both and still prefer manual, especially off-road,I drove in the Canadian oil field where there is a lot of what I call off road in mud and snow and chains on for miles!
Automatic transmissions allow for faster training by mega carriers so they can flood the market and keep wages down.
And put more un skilled dangerous drivers behind the wheel
Steering wheel holders.
Yeah...ummm that's not a good thing !!!
Hit the nail on the head
You’re very close, but it does go a little deeper than that. They were tearing out the manual transmissions at a staggering rate, and those things are awfully expensive to replace. It’s a lot harder for the savages to break automatics when all they have to do is press the skinny pedal.
For some applications, an automatic may be better , but for me the 18 speed will always be the king of OTR , heavy haul and mountain road driving on slippery roads in Canada . The selective control you get just can't be beat.
Every auto now has a manual node to select at gear you want to be in.
@@user-tr6fw8yo2tit really isn’t the same, autos can force you into or out of a gear even in manual mode, which can be very annoying in a heavy haul application. Besides it’s a lot more boring!
@@user-tr6fw8yo2tyou do realize that an automatic will never save you from snow/mud/ice. I'll just give you the most simple example: Audi A4/A6 Quattro Torsen with an automatic transmission and a manual transmission. If you are stopping in front of some mud, chances are the automatic Audi will get stuck most of the time. It doesn't matter if you are changing the automatic gearbox to manual, the result will literally be the same. The manual transmission gives you two important things: control over the gear (and RPM), and the ability to control the clutch manually. That ability to control the clutch makes all of the difference. And I know that you are going to say "well, we have adaptive control on the automatics these days", and it doesn't matter. :)
I concur 😂😂😂😂😂
Saves on your fuel bills also.
Between new drivers not being taught to drive a manual it’s also because it’s easier for trucking companies to control every aspect of how the truck performs
And no gear repairs
@@1wun1nope just electrical issues
@@TruckerdaddyAnd no "trucker's knee"
If you know how to "float" the gears, this won't be an issue.@@TheTallMan50
@@TheTallMan50 I've been driving manual transmissions for 50 years...What is truckers knee'?
Manual transmissions, never decreased in popularity. It was a forced obsolescence caused by the trucking industry that forced drivers to have to use this equipment. It also introduced the ability for a driver to leave 1 foot out of the driver door window, while watching an iPhone without the responsibility of controlling the vehicle.
Nailed it.
I dont think anyone forced anyone to choose one over the other. Its not like the big manufacturers are telling people they can't buy a manual because they wanted to sell more automatics. It's like the light duty pickups, single cab long bed pickups are still available, and are cheap as can be, just the automakers saw people wanted more crew cabs and decided that they would make more of them. The same goes with automatic transmissions, the market dictates what the manufacturers make, sure ya they do have power being the only makers in the north american market, but if people decided they wanted to spec pink frames as a standard they would eventually make it a default too if the deman was high and consisten enough.
@@sterlingodeaghaidh5086 I am not implicating that the manufacturer is forcing the market to buy automatics. The trucking companies are buying automatics. The maintenance required on them is minimal and by the time they put them on the lot for sale, there’s a higher risk of the new owner having to put money into a problematic transmission. it also stems to reason you can get a driver that you don’t have to train to drive an automatic the way you would have to train someone to drive a manual. The truck companies are the mainstay of the manufacturer because they will buy hundreds of units a year where is it single person would buy one truck. So in essence, you follow the market. My point is that a driver is forced to drive an automatic because that is the equipment being available to them without any regard to driver, comfort or safety. Same reason why most trucks do not have air ride on the steer axle or have longer wheel bases. Even worse, those who make more money by the amount of freight they can haul will jeopardize, a driver safety by putting stupid singles on to save some weight. In the end, blowouts, and the like cost a hell of a lot more than the money they take in by having them on. One more thing to add. They don’t have any consideration about driver, safety, functionality, or be able to keep cost down. In the end, automatics cannot be started except by callingp an expensive wrecker if your battery is weak or your starter is bad you can always pull start a manual transmission but you cannot and automatic. I had a brand new truck with only 8000 miles on his first run with an automatic and I was stuck at the dock because after I had shut down and got loaded, I went to start the truck and it had an AF fault Followed by a code 88. After turning the key off and on abruptly 20 times it finally was able to reset and realize that it was a neutral. You are a driver and have to sit on the road for two hours waiting for a road repair company or wrecker to get you going because you could have easily had a pull start from another rig. I consider that a waste of time and money, especially on my behalf because I’m not getting paid to sit out there and watch the wind blow.
@@aviatortrucker6285 ok i see your point then.
@@sterlingodeaghaidh5086 and just think they have automated transmissions, automatic lane, departure, avoidance, automatic braking, mirrors with cameras on them, driver facing cameras. All this technology they have GPS to track you. GPS to be able to navigate, but they still fall back on an antiquated bullshit payment method of some book you never see called HHG. Anything to cheat a driver! You’ll never see that book until you die. You will be at Saint peters gate, when he opens the book of life, the HHG book will be next to him so you can check and see if you were properly paid on that last load.
One simple answer. To make the test easier to pass and to make drivers out of people that otherwise wouldn't be. Gotta fill those seats with cheap unskilled labor.
welcome to wreck fest
Automatic transmissions is wrong terminology.
Class 8 transmissions that have been forced into service are Auto Shift transmissions.
Is this propaganda comrade?
As long as there is heavy haul and oversized loads, the demand for manual will be there. If you learn to float gears, you will never want an automatic.
Not in Sweden heck they dont even teach you how to drive a manual truck or bus at driving schools anymore due to the rarity.
Cars homever if you do your driving test in an automatic you are only allowed to drive an automatic. You do it in a manual car you are allowed to drive cars equipped with either
@@Groza_Dallocort Interestingly the US is the opposite of that. We have CDL schools that still teach and test on manuals, but if you test on an automatic your CDL is restricted to automatic only commercial vehicles(restriction only applies to commercial vehicles though). For cars though, it doesn't matter what you test on your license allows you to drive either automatic or manual cars.
Currently my CDL is restricted to automatic only, so I can legally drive commercial vehicles with an automatic transmission but for cars I can still drive either manual or automatic.
@@saruwatarikooji
I know for a fact some states in US do actually impose restrictions on the manual transmissions if you got your licence on automatic car.
I couldn't tell you which ones exactly though, but I can name at least Washington.
My drivers all prefer their Trucks just as they are. Being 38 1986 Peterbilt 359's with 3406B Cats and Spicer 6x4 Transmissions. No Computers to fail and leave them Stranded.
Personally i would prefer manual transmissions over automatic any day. The thrill of going thru the gear patterns and the satisfaction that im responsible for selecting the correct, proper and most efficient gear for the circumstances and not relying on a computer.
the auto skips gear based on your weight so if you're bobtail it never go under 5th and always skips gears.
@@user-tr6fw8yo2t we were doing that (skip shifting) long before computers in trucks. Skip shifting, "depending on weight, as you stated," involved starting out in a higher gear than when loaded, heavily loaded and continuing to skip 2-3 gears at a time until you top out. Different for every truck based on transmission, gear ratio, rear end ratio, weight, empty or b/t. And still didn't use a clutch for shifting, and before synchronized transmissions. You keep the auto, I drove for the love of the appreciation of the equipment, machinery, and damn near all that entails trucking from an old school perspective... 70's- 06.
The only good thing to me about auto transmission is if in standstill traffic...
@@Takingcareofbusiness669that’s it
I bet the " thrill" goes south about 1 week after starting driving that stick shift.
My Volvo FH500 has a dual clutch transmission (you know, that kind of trans that's build in sports cars) and I love it. It shifts so fast up and down and I can focus more on the road. Specially in the centre of tiny cities with a lot of traffic
I work for a heavy haul company. They just brought in an automatic for us to try. We have all threatened to quit if we're forced into that truck lmao!!! Manual all the way💯
🤣🤣🤣
You probably should have quit then as all they gotta do is wait for new drivers. Younger generation are more open to change.
My Manual transmission has never locked me out of gear when the wire harnesses got wet
Always prefer to shift my own gears. I'm smarter than a computer than can't see what's ahead
I quit a job because they took my 13spd Kenworth and sold it to put me in a automatic. Now that I own my own 13 spd KW, I dont have to worry about a damn automatic
Luddite! 😂😂
drove manual trucks 30 years got first automatic this year and love it now
Not in Africa many trucks and lorries are Manual trucks even modern ones
It's due to the cost, once auto transmissions become cheaper, it will change, i'm from an african country too
@AviSchwartzman Trucks in the United States 🇺🇸 and Canada are using automatics. I saw a Mack truck without a clutch pedal. I asked the driver, and he told me "they went to automatics." Also a lot of the trucks are being equipped with disc brakes. They do last longer than drum brakes and disc brakes can last up to 500,000 miles.
@@AviSchwartzmannah that’s def abt skill issue. Y’all Americans just can’t drive manuals in general 😂😂😂😂😂
Yes and no. In South Africa, most of the European and even some of the Chinese manufacturers sell AMT as standard. Most of the cheaper Chinese trucks still come in manual. The European trucks sold outside of SA that are manuals are generally either from a cost point of view, or because the trucks are destined for primarily offroad use where a manual offers a lot more control.
Not in South Africa mate
As the trucking industry continues to embrace less than able drivers, you must make the job as simple as possible.
Just as with motorcycles, if you cannot handle a manual transmission, you should have no business riding or driving the vehicle. Automation encourages incompetence in most fields, and driving is no exception.
The same argument could be made for regular cars and light trucks. Why are manual transmissions all but non existant today, even in sporty cars?
Only reason I like manuals is to show off a skill most don’t have, but if I was the only person in the world, I would choose automatic so I can think about what I want to think about. Always remembering what gear your in and is annoying especially if I’m really thinking about something else.
Main reason is that most of the newer drivers aren't smart enough or coordinated enough to operate a manual transmission, or drive a big truck period.
Well obviously a person who has never been taught a particular skill can't carry out that particular skill. As for newer drivers "can't drive a big truck". Well that's just wrong. They may not be as skilful as someone with 30 years experience but that has always been the case.
I will always choose the manual transmission over a automatic. was trained on a 13sp od, loved it.
I suspect that another big factor in the development of automatic transmissions and automated transmissions for trucks was the development of electronic microprocessor based control systems for the transmissions on trucks. With automobiles automatic transmissions were originally hydraulically controlled with hydraulic logic. This limited the number of speeds to 3 or 4 speeds forward, which works fine for a car, but is not suitable for a a large truck. However with cars when electronic controls were used for the automatic transmissions, the transmissions started to be built with 5 to 9 speeds forward. Thus electronic transmission controls made it more feasible and practical to build automatic and automated transmissions for large trucks so that the truck transmission could have 10 or more speeds forward.
The older automatics for trucks were also mechanically controlled. It comes down more to service life. The more maintenance cost a brand can charge they will chase it. Automatic trucks still have many issues. Now i believe eaton just released a “non-serviceable” transmission. Ill just say it wont work.
Two speed autos for cars were at one time very common.
The most well known 2 speed automatic that was common when I was young was the Chevrolet two speed Powerglide transmission. This two speed automatic was very common in the 1950s and 1960s.@@scrambler69-xk3kv
@@scrambler69-xk3kvtransit buses too
Major companies like SWIFT, CRST and WERNER hire drivers first who lack any driving experience, and it's easier to get them in a truck with automatic transmissions, so they can be distracted and wreck.
Automatic transmissions came about because of lawyers and insurance companies, then not teaching how to use a manual furthet buried it. I'll keep the 3 pedal vehicle, its a theft deterrent.
It's work on newbe or lazy theft for sure, but not work on vet theft and theft happen to love manual transmission, but yes, I supposed it's help with some theft deterrent, depend on who theft is.
In USA yes Europe nope
new drivers coming in to the trucking industry don't have a clue on how to shift gears , so now big mega carriers push for automatic transmissions....
It is not too hard to learn how to shift a manual transmission. Automatics are for lazy people who don't take pride in their work.
Keep the stick shift alive ppl who are great with business and knowing how to build things keep the stick shift going strong
It's great for mechanics to keep manual's. But not for truck owners with drivers.
To late in Sweden. Due to the rarity of stick shifts in trucks they don't even teach how to drive manual trucks and busses at driving schools
As a company yes it is normally less expensive overall to have automatic trannys. But the main reason is that most people nowadays don't know and understand how a manual transmission works, and aren't properly trained in operations of it.
At the end of the day. If you can't drive big rig without a manual transmission you shouldn't be in the truck in the first place. Remember you are a professional, ACT LIKE IT!!
I run off highway frequently doing heavy float work and oversize loads and would go broke with an automatic. Too many sensors, electronics, and wires that leave automatics dead on the side of the road when there's no pavement and the running surface is rough.
I drive by these trucks probably 4 or 5 times a week, and they're waiting for days sometimes(if i know the driver is OK and doesn't need anything... or a call made to his company when i get further up the road if cell service is non existent)
And im not saying my truck doesn't run into trouble at all.
But im on the original EF18 with about 250K off highway and 400K total... i've just never been jammed up by the transmission
Im not saying one is better than the other or putting down anyones perfered gearbox.
By thw way, a rebuilt auto is upwards of 18/20K and a rebuilt 18spd can be around 5K
True, and how often do you need to rebuild a manual transmission? It must be cheaper to maintain.
@BlaqRaq depends on the use/abuse... Local P&D, Construction, Oversized/Heavy Haul, and Off Highway work is harder on everything, as you could imagine. Normal Long haul Highway work would be easiest on the running gear.
I've seen original units over 1 million without requiring a rebuild, and I've seen absolutely destroyed units under 100K.... I'm currently at 420000 on my truck. Had oil samples taken during a recent service that came back clean with no metallic particulates present. I Haul 50-60t and over loads for the most part, and far from the blacktop as well. Truck and trailer setup sometimes scales at 35t or more on top of that. Normal Highway work is less than half that.
The most common manual trans work is a clutch replacement, and it's relatively cheap and quick. It doesn't require removing the entire transmission from the truck either.
For every sensor and electronic crap they add-that’s something else to break
@grazz7865 and when they do fail, it's never anywhere convenient. I gave a guy a ride back into town a while back because he was dead in the water and outside cell service. After a $1800 tow and a couple of days waiting to get in the shop, turned out to be chafed wires for the transmission module. Never said what the shop cost was, but the lost time and tow were hard enough on a guys wallet.
@@AndyEightSevenFive yeah! For a 50 cent piece of wire and a $5 sensor. Now, on most cars, if you lost battery power; you can’t even shift the car into neutral to tow it
Great video. 👍🏼 I prefer a stick-shift myself, but it really is a driver’s preference and what that driver is n most comfortable with to produce the best results. Keep up the good videos. Have A Safe Day! 🛻🚚🚛
Finally someone who knows. Say what you want about truckers with automatic transmissions, but you don't have to change gears a lot. Pretty good for long hauls on flat lands or driving on cities.
Then again, it comes back to trucker preference
Most don't even have the skill set to know where the differences are between the two while behind the wheel.
Someone with a sensible viewpoint on the internet? This will never do! 😉😉😊😊
Like he said, lack of skill being taught in today's driving schools, and that lack of skills shows up as more wrecks out here...prove me wrong....
I never wrecked 😂 just cause you’re in a manual still doesn’t mean youre accident proof
@@TJ-100you either have the aptitude to drive a truck or you don't. It's that simple.
automated Transmissions is also why you see so many more wrecks in the mountains and on snow and ice. Automatic transmissions on making it harder to weed out drivers that don't need to be on the road and there is a lot of them now
Roadranger transmissions are still pretty popular, especially in dump trucks and heavy haul tractors….At least 1 in 3 I see on the lot are still roadrangers , and of those they are about 50% 18 speeds and a 25% / 25% split of 13 and 10 speeds. They still make 9 speeds, 8LL’s and 15 speeds as well but you’ll rarely see one on a dealer lot, the few trucks that get them are usually customer ordered where they spec one of those for a reason.
Ive driven both automatic and manual transmission trucks. I prefer a manual transmission not just in semis but in cars and pickups as well. More control over vehicle and manual transmissions are more durable. I also think companies are going autotrans so when they can have self driving trucks they cabt use manual transmissions in self driving trucks.
All my vehicles are stick.
In pickups??? You'd have to buy a 1981 pickup to find one with a manual transmission. You almost can't find any cars now. I have one but the pickings are slim.
What model years are your vehicles? Where I live, you'd have trouble finding a dealer who sells new cars with manual transmissions anymore.
Of courses,buses as well.,
I been driving 10 speed since 96'. So many positive things are a manual transmissions and the complete understanding of it ALL. Now if I was going to buy a new truck that had too be auto it would definitely be a Volvo with I-shift automatic. Because 30 years experience says so.❤
Also, young drivers learning to drive large trucks may have never encountered manual transmissions at all as they are incresingly rare in regular vehicles. This makes learning to drive commercial trucks longer and more difficult.
That's what I was thinking too. About 90% of young American drivers have never used a clutch pedal in any vehicle before. And at least some of them may expect that ideally, driving a truck should be like driving the cars they're accustomed to: put the transmission in Drive and just go.
@@stevenlitvintchouk3131 and these inept drivers are causing most of the accidents involving big trucks. It took me 5 days to learn how to shift a two stick truck...NOT that hard.
@@swamprat69er The irony is that the newest cars are now coming with some capability to shift manually. The 2023 Camry is an automatic but its paddle shifter lets you take the transmission manually between 8 positions for engine braking on downgrades.
Manual is fun in general
The only problem I've had with these automatic trucks is backing them up. It can be a pain sometimes hitting the gas and the break and slamming into the dock
Damn u can’t drive
It gets easier after about 2 months
For the vast majority of my backs, that hasn't been much of an issue. However, there have been some places where I would have killed to have control of the clutch rather than let the AMT do it for me. I've seen some situations where a manual would have been preferred but I was able to get through it just fine on the AMT and I understand certain situations where the AMTs just don't react well enough to be truly safe. I don't think manual transmissions will ever disappear entirely as there are plenty of niche areas where the manuals are obviously superior. That being said, I still don't want to drive a manual full time...mostly because I have some serious knee problems in my left knee and even in a 5 speed manual car clutch use becomes extremely painful in a hurry.
This is still an issue , two pedal it like a clutch.
Some docks really are even at all...
i've driven 2 spd rears , triplex and quadriplex (534 gasburners) , 9 spd , 10 spd , 13 spd , 18 spd , and even a 9 spd turn around or "hook" pattern . almost all on backroads with underpowered trucks , so millions of shifts . i'm thankful i learned them all . never drove an auto trans truck , but my left knee would feel a lot better if that's all i ever drove .
Your left knee might be more sore, but it's a happy, sore knee. 😅
Not a lot of skill when the Air splitter was introduced. I got my CDL in 2016 and the 10 speed manual was pretty easy to master. I also have driven a truck with a 13 speed manual. Not too difficult because of Air splitter. In the early days of these transmissions they had multiple shifters which required drivers to actually take the hand off the wheel and move multiple levers for the gears and ranges they wanted. That was mastering the transmission. That was Driving the truck. Technology is changing and with all of the traffic on the road I would trade my Automatic in for anything. You old truckers can give me crap all you want for my automatic but you can kiss it. I don't walk with a limp, I am not fatigued at the end of my 10 hours drive shift and my knees thank me for it especially when I drive in the city.
This whole article is meant to create the push for all automatics in trucking
Yup
Hahaha they don't need that, its happening regardless. 80% out here now are third world imbeciles, it will be 100% soon.
Most of the long-time drivers who knew how to drive a manual transmission are retiring from trucking, and the new drivers don't have the necessary skills to learn anything other than an automatic. This is because the pay for truck driving is falling lower and lower each year so only the non-skilled drivers are even considering truck driving as a career. Skilled people are heading off into other careers like heavy equipment operator instead.
I was a mechanic at a car dealership and what I know for a fact is Automatic transmissions have a limited lifespan till they have to be rebuilt, which is expensive, 2000$ + at our dealership and elsewhere from what I have seen. I always have had manual transmissions in my trucks because replacing a clutch is drastically less expensive than having to rebuild an automatic transmission. Having to actually work on the gears or synchronizers in a manual trans mission is much mare rare than rebuilding an automatic. The worst it gets with a manual transmission is possibly having to get a flywheel resurfaced or replaced., besides the obvious clutch and pressure plate replacement.A lot less complication to work on a manual transmission. A manual transmission can take a lot more abuse than an automatic.........
Seemed like the auto trans in the Volvos at my old company would go out at 400k miles. The shifting actuator is what went out on one of my trucks outside Wenatchee WA. A week later after a 1 week rebuild, it went out again outside Bakersfield.
I enjoyed shifting manually except in the heavy LA traffic I often found myself in.
I'm not sure how well the auto trans in other brands of trucks held up..
the cars they make now that still have a manual option have started using really garbage gearboxes.
the manuals that are offered in current year jeeps do not offer the same towing capacity as the autos. the only reason is the model transmission they paired with it is only suited for 250ftlb of torque. and they will only offer it with the standard engine, so you cant even get the hemi or diesel with a manual.
Enjoyed the video chap..Exc ellent
Automatics aren't necessarily more fuel efficient. They're not designed with progressive shifting in mind; so they have to rev high to shift, even in the lower gears. Most automatics have a "manual" option for them, allowing the driver a little more control over when it shifts, but they're still limited to the parameters of the transmissions computer. I drove an automatic for over a year before getting back into a manual and found that my fuel efficiency was actually slightly better with the manual since I could progressively shift.
@@Andre-ez8qr exactly, Volvo and Scania say in Thier press releases exactly the opposite and have proven it
I started driving three on the tree,no power brakes or steering when I was 8. I’m 61 now,been driving 18 wheeler since 1979, starting with 5and 3-4s,twin sticks. Try to put me in an auto trans and I’ll hang up my 44 years of trucking. Automatics are for immigrants and idiots who can’t drive to begin with.
That depends on programming. You could press the Economy Button on many of them and get more economical shifting.
Using a manual means you are more in sync with vehicle and situations and respond
I've been driving for over 30 years. I've had an automatic and they were terrible. I got no where near the control I can with a manual. The only reason automatics are becoming more common is the number of new drivers that never learned how to drive a manual in the first place. If given the choice, I'll always take the manual.
My favorite was the 13 speed that I was trained on in the late 70s.
Whether it's cars or trucks, that feeling of power, control and purpose you get from manual transmission is inimitable by anything else.
I like the idea of having a automatic transmission save less time in training someone to learn to drive a truck and save company money in finding truck drivers straight out of school and save money for having someone to ride along with a new person
Except autoshift only operators dont have the knoledge of off road and or ice snow covered manuvers.
It helps to start off in upper range on an unpredictible surface.
This isnt allowed in an auto shift.
( todays class 8 trucks have air operated computer servos that shift the gears.
Automatic transmissions are hydraulically operated. These designs were dropped for class 8 decades ago, high failure rate.)
I have just around 3/4's of a million miles on 9, 10, and 13 speed Fullers. Believe me, after that, you NEVER want to see a manual transmission again. In your life. Even my motorcycle is an automatic. And hardly any of the posters on this Vlog ever drove a truck for a living. It was actually in the medium duty trucks where Allison and Eaton first started on truck automatics. I believe Ram still uses Allisons.
I love Allison's in my truck fleet, the driver can't get it wrong, sure they cost a bit to fix when they fail, but you're not doing Clutches every 200-300,000kms. And they get off the line well unlike an amt box.
💪👍
I think that all of the torque converter and planetary gear type heavy truck automatics in North America are Allisons, because they're the only company manufacturing them. In medium duty, the strongest variants of the Ford and GM automatics which are used throughout their truck lines are used all the way up to Class 6... and GM has their's branded "Allison" (although Allison doesn't make it). Yes, that leaves Ram using the lighter-duty Allison models.
Automatic heavy truck transmissions are usually not the torque converter and planetary gear type. Instead, they are internally designed like a manual but with automated shifting (often called an "automated manual transmission" or "AMT"); Allison doesn't build those.
I think snowplows is as big as Allison gets. And school busses of course. And I believe AMT's are called double clutch automatics in the car world. They're very quick shifting in cars, although ZF has developed even faster conventional units. ZF pretty much rules the performance car world. Mine can shift in 7ms. That's why you don't see manuals in cars anymore. No one can out-shift a ZF. @@brianb-p6586
I suppose if you had a manual you'd be busy shifting instead of digging in your purse!
I have used both, like manual because I control truck. Without automatic transmission companies would have no drivers.
I been a driver for 25 years, and I love the 13 speed Eaton/ fuller, for me stick shift is the best.
I grew up in a northern environment and I can say.. I’d rather have the Manual transmission when it gets slick… so many times I felt things start to slide.. hit the clutch and bang you are right back straight.. Also, in many certain environments.. I like to start in 2nd gear to prevent the wheels from spinning (burying me)… you just can’t do that stuff when a computer decides for you.. and by the time is does do the right thing.. you’ve dug a hole and your stuck… and also with a stick.. I’ve always gotten better mileage.. not to mention, can use the engine for braking in gasoline engines (big Diesels have the Jacob Brakes as well as downshifting).. so my brakes are saved some undo wear..
My Volvo starts from any gear from 1st to 5th and I can do it manually if I want. And also they can downshift with engine break on much better than the average driver. European trucks with auto transmission save 10-20% on fuel. There are trucks with auto trans in my company with over 1 million miles and don't have any problem. Everything you believe is a lie, or the trucks you drove have 10-20 years old technology. Keep your manual, if you like manuals drive them, It's not our problem but don't use false facts to convice others.
@@chrishar110 I think it's Americans who don't get to experience Scania and Volvo transmissions that are saying this stuff. And most American driving is on flat roads. I encounter people arguing similar things here in Australia and it's just they don't want to change Thier thinking.
it could also be that our american models just straight up suck. even just hooking up to a trailer with an automatic is a night and day experience.
it wont force itself under the trailer and connect to the kingpin unless you give a tap on the accelerator, and then it goes too hard and slams the kingpin.
then when you do the tug test, put it in drive and give the pedal a tap, simple as that is on paper, for some reason our trucks like to lock it in gear start spinning the wheels till i hit the brake to get it to stop, which then causes the whole cab to rock left and right.@@chrishar110
Flat roads in america? Tell me you've never driven west coast or the Midwest where the rockies are without telling me. Hell even the east coast has the Appalachian mountains albeit they're much smaller than the rockies.
Brief shot of mention of the Cummins 220. Great engine. Had one in my Guy Big J tractor unit.
I love driving my 18 speed assigned unit but I know the fleet is upgrading to trucks with automatic transmissions . It sucks because I prefer to shift gears but I understand that they run cheaper with the new transmissions and lower operating costs is more important then enjoying your job I suppose 🤷♂️ it is what it is
And no fuel bonus.
Automated transmissions. The tow truck operator's bread and butter.
As mentioned, it's the large truckload carriers that got behind the push for automatics. With their annual churn rate of drivers at ninety percent or even higher, they needed to shorten the learning curve for the new hires coming out of the trucking schools.
But I don[t mind. I prefer automatics for three reasons:
One, in combination with a cruise control I can run up and down hills at a set speed. I don'[t have to down-shift on the way up, or fiddle with the jake brake on the way down. All I have to do is focus on traffic.
Two, in combination with adaptive cruise, driving in fog or heavy rain becomes safer. The truck 'sees' what's ahead better than I can, and slows down quicker if needed.
Three, the selector sits on the steering column, so there is no shifter sticking out of the floor between the seats, which makes it much easier to move around the cab.
You can be nostalgic and bemoan the good ole days if you want, but I know progress when I see it.
Totally agree. Too many old boys (I'm an old boy myself), looking through rose-tinted spectacles.
I prefer stick shift coz even clutch is involved n that make it effective and enjoyable
And a Volvo i-shift will do the job better than you.
@@Low760 The I-Shift will break down before even getting to do a job.
@@Low760😂 wait till that i-shift is stuck between D-N and won't start the truck... While I pull away in my 18spd 😂😂😂
When i went from an eaton 10 speed to an ultrashift, I noticed that they froze up in the cold. I had to limp the auto into the wash bay and spray it off with warm water before it would work enough to go on my route. This killed my time drastically in the winter. The manuals just worked no questions asked. I also noticed a decrease in overall company quality when they went to autos. The shift from "driver" to "glorified mobile warehouser" was ever apparent. We got treated worse when unqualified idiots without the ability to clutch entered the workforce. So i completely changed gears and went into a different sect of the industry where autos are more trouble than they're worth and have been blessed with a pay raise almost twice my old average, and without the pain of mechanical disability. Lessons learned: haul fuel or haul heavy. Preferably both.
Retired and part time for a Farmer and fertilizer plant both having auto shifts,can still shift but love the autos.
My company switched to automatics in 2019. Boss told us no more manuals. He said the driver with the worse consistent fuel mileage in the fleet (there are 70 of us) got a 15% increase in his fuel milea by doing nothing differant. Automatics alway pick the best gear to start out,skip gears as nessasary, never over rev the engine and shift more smoothly. They constantly keep the truck in the sweet spot as long as possible. Added bonus if driven properly, much less wear on ujoints and drive shafts etc.
All that is needed now is an autopilot .. and everyone will be out of a job. :(
@@Deploraclenot quite yet. The truck still needs someone to check the load, refuel and change a tire
I was around trucking for 35 years and saw a lot. Most of my drivers were skeptical of the auto shift trans until they drove one for awhile. Then they never looked back.
Maybe your drivers are not skillful.
some of our best were first to get the auto shifts@@jdmjr1130
@@jdmjr1130 maybe you just like holding something long,hard, and black in your hand.
@@jdmjr1130it’s not the skill it’s the traffic part that most like about auto
Right , when they were first coming in they were all BS, sat on the yard for those that had choice. The only ones embracing them when they got better was the new breed imbeciles of the modern day. Outside of some local or LTL running heavy city traffic regularly, that spends half the day stop and go, then I might see the "never looking back"
Clutch is used for initial roll off, that's it. I'm in the Specialized / Heavy haul / heavy towing sector. No automatics over here. 18 speed is our preferred weapon of choice. Light hauling and box trucks doing city work is where the auto makes sense to me. Out here in the wide open where we operate the auto wouldn't cut it. And some trucks aren't true automatics (transmission with a torque converter) but UltraShifts which are manual transmissions with solenoid controlled shifters. We cant go a week without towing a truck for Automatic trans problems. You rarely ever tow a truck for a manual trans issue.
Great video!
Thanks 👍
I have been a trucker for over 50+ years and I currently drove for a major tricking company. We have both, auto and manuals transmissions in our trucks. They are Freightliners, Volvos, Internationals, Petes, and Macks. When the automatics go wrong, it's usually the "brains" in the tranny. Believe it or not, they will "FORGET' which gear to go in, and get stuck, usually in the lower gears. It will give a 1,2,3 or 4 shift, and go no further in the shifting SEQUENCE when the tranny is a 12 speed tranny. I drive any of them, but I prefer the manuals, 10, 13, or 15 speeds. I look @ shifting as a challenge between me and the truck tranny when it comes to the shifting. I look @ the tach and listen to the sound of the engine when shifting. This is fun for me. Thanks guys, and KEEP ON TRUCKIN"
I'm with you Johnny❤️ Learned to drive the hard way in a 3 stick dog when a cousin stopped dead in the middle of I-95 N between DE-PA when he passed completely out behind the d* wheel from being too drunk to drive! I struggled and threw that body on the floor, finally got in the jump seat and gassed on it doing 2 miles an hour (tops) to get off the highway onto a safe place. That's where I had a sex change without surgery...I had no idea this female (me) had immediately developed a set of balls!!! It's been 43 years and every time I turn the key in a truck the pit of my stomach goes through changes that alert me to NEVER get so comfortable that I take ANYTHING for granted. HAPPY TRAILS YOU...STAY SAFE 🥰
I started out on "crash gearboxes" and they are both very quick at changing gear and very easy to use. Then I got a Scania with a syncro box and at the end of the day it was bloody hard work being virtually impossible to go from 6 to 5. It was easier to go from 8 to 5 or 7 to 4 with the resultant swift loss of forward speed. Loved it when this went and I got my old crash boxes back. Towards the end I got an electronic shift / electronic clutch version of a manual syncro box. lovely on road but no bloody good off road unless locked into manual control.
Sounds like the smart car. It’s a automated manual transmission
@@grazz7865 Agreed everything is automated even the distance to the vehicle in-front. Nothing to do except steer and work the indicators. Total boredom on road and a total pain in the arse when off road.
@@PeterChapman-rg6gr oh yeah! I tried off roading, sporty driving. The computer did not like it at all😂😂😂. WAY too many safety features. Too much electronics. Something else to break. This is why the old cars lasted forever. They were a carburetor, manifold, transmission, drive line, rear end -PERIOD! The only break downs you had were flats and no starts.
@@PeterChapman-rg6gr and the rear distance sensors are WAY too sensitive. The alarms are blaring in my face in reverse and I’m thinking I have millimeters left before contact. Get out to look. Still have 15 feet of clearance!
@@grazz7865dont you have a camera as well?
I'm thinking, much of the information in this video, pertains to Europe. I've driven 2 auto mat transmissions. The first was in a 2001 Freightliner. It was an Eaton Fuller 10 speed. Being 2nd generation, it still had a clutch pedal. I loved the gearbox. I'm presently in a 2023 Freightliner with a 12 speed Allison auto mat. I hate everything about it. There is a hold to keep it from shifting. My employer has it disabled, so it wants to be in the highest gear. Not good for going down a mountain. This hold shouldn't even be available. But, I think I was able to shift faster (spending less time between gears) when I was a rookie than this thing. It is slow. The big companies, like the one I drive for, started buying them to attract people who can't shift.
Drove both. I take an Eaton 10 spd manual all the time.
I drove manual transmission in the 80s/90s, then gave up trucking for a few years. When I came back in the 2010s everything had switched to automatic. Took me a while to get used to it but I have to say, the new trucks are way better. It just makes life on the road that little bit easier. I'd hate to go back to the old split gearboxes now.
don't need clutch to down shift or up shift and it keeps you more focused on driving.
I don't see how having extra stuff to do keeps you more focused on driving.
I believe I'm a better authority to decide which gear I need to be in and when to shift than a mindless circuit board. Also, I pull tanker trailers which the auto transmission will never understand.
Yeah same, but double tankers in the oil field. An auto tranny would get me killed in the winter, the lack of feel needed, the bs jake system, hell I could go on and on, but you know.
I have my CDL for 18 years. Right now im driving a truck with 1,245,000 miles with 13 speed mabual transmission. Ive driven automatics and i still prefer the manual transmission. The reason big companies want automatic trannys because its easier to train students with automatic transmission. There are very few students who own personal cars with manual shifter. A Semi with manual transmission will out last a semi with automatic transmission.
Man my knees and my arm thank me for the automatic I’m driving now. More control with manuals but the automatic is so much easier and comfortable.
Seen for sale a 2021 scania S500 stick shift in the uk.
Rare as nearly 100% are opticruise
I think you mean automated manual transmissions, not automatic transmissions. It's even in your graph you share at 2:14. The large cyan bar on the graph is AMT - automated manual transmissions, and only the small yellow in the middle is automatic transmissions.
Jep amt as mentioned 👍
"Automatic" just means that it shifts (and clutches, if necessary) by itself. "Automated manual" transmissions are just one type of automatic transmission. All three common types of automatic (torque converter and clutched planetary gearsets ["automatic" in the chart], automatically clutched and shifted parallel-gear ["AMT" in the chart], and dual-clutch automatically shifted parallel gear ["DCT" in the chart]) are used in heavy trucks... and all are automatics.
@katokagome4670 most heavy trucks don't have a torque converter and planetary gear transmission available. Whatever is offered, a buyer should obviously choose a specific transmission from the choices offered, which are never simply generic "manual" and "automatic".
@@katokagome4670if you keep driving manual with a heavy twin plate clutch you're only wearing your body out as well as the clutch.
I love a manual transmission that’s how I learned how to drive a Semi truck
It was a nice challenge to run with a manual. I liked it. But now I'll take the AMT.
Manuals are better for multiple applications. More companies are using AT because it allows more to drive, but it doesn't involve safety. Manuals are safer in every aspect and this apparent by the increase of accidents after the mass introduction of Automatic Transmissions.
Drove my first auto transmission in 1991,then in 2000,and in North America in 2017,never had a problem with a automatic
@@dutchman2506 Who cares? Want a gold star? In North America, huh? You from Europe?
Once i learned how to drive a manual i couldn't go back to an automatic
Thanx!
It's lots of benefits and automatic tricks. One save on fuel.
Two No more clutch damage training new drivers. 3
You go focus on traffic more better
when i got in the indursty i learned on a manual truck i really dont like automatic trucks.
25 years of driving. Drove 3 trucks with autos, and hated all 3.
One tried to kill me on a mountain.
If you really enjoy driving, then operating a manual transmission in a smooth efficient manner is all part of that enjoyable competence.
Driving an auto adds to boredom!
For logging trucks or low bed tractors, manual hands down. For city work in start and stop traffic, an automatic.
Class 1 driver, 39 years experience.
I've driven both and I still consider myself a greenhorn with only 6 years of driving, but in city driving I prefer Autos; long stretches of roads, hills, back roads I prefer manuals. Just my opinion. I do know after being around Abrams tanks in my time in the military that they use massive Allison autos mated to a turbine 1500hp that puts out over 3k tq and the transmission handles it no problem, so strength isn't an issue.
As a P&D driver I agree with you when I would do linehual and hit the grapevine I would always grab the 10 speed but doing P&D the 10 speed can be a pain especially in traffic hours but 10 speed is always better especially when broken down in the low air pressure or similar issue auto mated cant move the truck but 10 speed hit it in first and drag it away from the way in a emergency.
The fact that you are comparing an Abrams tank to an 18 wheeler is comical.
@@YMagoulo Here we go..............actually 18 wheelers haul the M1 Abrams with both manual and automatic transmissions. Semi trucks are quite capable of hauling very heavy equipment ie Heavy haul truck driving jobs. bulldozers, excavators, bridge girders weighing more than an Abrams tank, etc. I was merely stating that automatic transmissions are quite strong and have their place. Some tanks utilize them bc they're reliable, strong and require very little if any driver input for a tank driver.
@@jims4877 As a former soldier and driver of 18 wheelers across the US and Canada, I agree.
@@YMagoulo He was comparing size and weight. Now go run along and find some other trolls to play with.
My trucking school refused to teach me manual even though I wanted to learn it. They refused because I never drove a stick shift car before. (Like that makes sense 🙄) Now that I’m trying to get a better job with better benefits with my experience, I’m locked out of some good positions because of my automatic restriction.
I've seen several comments that it's easier to learn a manual semi if you haven't driven a manual car before. Things you learn in a manual car don't translate exactly to semis, such as pushing the clutch fully in a car to shift isn't how you shift in a semi, double clutching isn't needed for cars, things like that.
Exactly right, felt weird going from manual semi to manual pickup truck.
Stalled more often and rev matching was horrendous.
@@Ronald.Golleherexcept if you get into a truck with a full synchro box in which case it shifts mostly like a car (although some have clutchless split)
@@Savagetechiewhich is, for whatever reason, not a thing in America. They dont have synchronized gearboxes in their trucks
@@tobiasmetzger4522because we are real men.
I'd much rather have a manual after being stuck half in and out of the fuel island because I blew a damn fuse in dash that controlled my automatic transmission. My 2019 Mack left me stuck for an hour. Called out roadside service and he had no clue because it was throwing unknown codes. My boss called the head transmission guy at the local Mack Shack and he knew exactly the issue. A 5amp and 15amp fuse both blew. It disabled the MDrive transmission.
So yeah I'm back in a manual with no issues at all. All of our automatics are having issues after 500k miles
I did LTL in a 12 speed and also an AMT. I had several stops and in-city driving, so I preferred the AMT.
Driver fatigue? Can’t speak for everyone else, but a manual is one thing that helps me be more awake and alert. Because you have to be ready and on it with hills, getting off or on a highway and in the city. Gives me that little boost of awareness when I see the situation approaching instead of knowing the trucks computer will take care of it for me. Less work and mundaness make me feel more fatigued.
I get why big companies invest more in autos. So many drivers are restricted now and the ones that aren’t a lot of times don’t care to shift correctly, causing constant maintenance and replacements of clutches, transmissions and even entire drive lines! From a lot of business standpoints it makes sense, but I would only hire trustful and skilled employees. If you make people happy they will generally return the favor with respecting your equipment (hopefully).
Fatigue is caused by needing to do more work, not less..
@@Low760 doesn’t work for me that way. Activity keeps me alive, not doing much I can start feeling tired. Everyone is different.
I absolutely find that you have far more control and precision with a manual transmission...in a car - you can do far more with a manual transmission there - probably a good automated transmission would be more suitable in a truck
I've driven both. For normal local and dry van work, I'll take the Auto. Company truck, ridiculous numbers of miles and relatively poor working conditions make the Auto a godsend. I only ever trained on a manual, but man I've been hankering to get back behind one. I hope they don't disappear. If you're doing specialized work, or even just have a preference, it would be pretty cruel to not have that option available anymore.
I've driven a grand total of two manual transmission vehicles in my life, Dad's Volkswagon beetle and later, his Ford Ranger.
I liked the bug, but I hate driving stick.
I torn on this subject. I got out of trucking 20 years ago. The company I drove for was using 9 and 10 speed Fullers. Automatic transmissions in heavy trucks was really just starting to get more popular. I never even road on a tractor with an 18 speed. Not really sure why 18 speeds are needed. A buddy was an owner/operator, he never had more than 10 speeds. He was a kind of a hard-core independent individual with his own ideas of how things should be done. When the Feds mandated Qualcomm in all commercial trucks he said "f***-em" and hung it up. He said the Government had no business knowing where he was at all times. I can tell you from experience that it was necessary to lie on your log books because companies used and dispatched on Rand McNally Book miles. One route my company use to like to drop on rookie drivers, Rand McNally book miles was over 200 miles short on the miles. The shipper only allowed 7 hrs for delivery when the trip took over 12. There was also a time-zone change involved. It wasn't possible to make the trip in the allotted time. You had to drive over 5 hrs for free and then sit for 24 hrs because you didn't make the appointment time. I finally refused to take that run after being screwed over 5 times. Don't know if they ever fixed that damned run, but it cost me more money to run than I received to drive it.
Well, that kind of got off track. Not sure if I would like an automatic in a big rig or not. Doesn't really matter, my knees are so bad that I doubt that I can even climb into a big rig anymore. And really, my Grand Marquis has a 4-speed automatic anyway.
Your tangent kind of perfectly illustrated why ELDs are a good thing. It would allow for that run you mentioned to be in a glaring report to the DOT and they could step in to get it sorted. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of downsides to ELDs but they have a lot of good too. I think with a bit of tweaking even the old diehards will come to love the ELDs but I don't see those kind of changes coming anytime soon.
As an aside, I drive an automatic big rig and with my knee problems(partial tear and severe arthritis in my left knee) I don't want anything to do with manuals. I know they have places where they are superior and I've even been in a couple situations where I would have much rather had control of the clutch myself but it hasn't happened often enough for me to be willing to exacerbate my knee problems.
As someone who owns b9th ishift Volvo's and Eaton 18 speeds in multiple trucks I can say without. A doubt a manual is the far superior box. Better control in all situations. Extra gears, stronger box.
The only place an auto is better is for inexperienced drivers. I put all my new drivers in the autos so they can focus on not flipping shit.
I remember working for an excavation company. Started working for them right after a guy I had previously worked for bought it. Previously he had nothing bigger than a skid steer and some f-350s and a dodge 3500. The excavation company came with a couple of dump trucks, excavators, articulated payloader, bulldozer, etc. So I got to witness my boss learning how to drive a proper dump truck on the job. Needless to say, I think he would have appreciated an automatic transmission.
I can still hear those gears grinding and grinding and grinding.
edit: It was over 15 years ago when I had that job and the dumps were in good condition but were old already back then. I think the most high tech feature either had was the heated dump body on one of them. (can't remember if both had that, but they really had no bells or whistles, just solid old school dump trucks) Technically my boss was able to drive them legally at the time due to having applied for a CDL, even though he had not actually gotten it at the time. He couldn't hook a trailer to them at the time, but could drive the truck, even when loaded, with what was basically a learners permit. There was some seriously lol fine print that let people get away with a lot of crap without actually getting a CDL in Ct. back then. Don't know about now though.
I'd pick manual transmissions if they were 13 speeds or better. Since most trucks in the US came with 10 speeds (10 speeds are trash), I'll be okay driving an automatic. The only bad thing about the automatics is that they taught me bad habits. I noticed I wasn't paying attention to my speeds on inclines much because the autos will engine brake and downshift on hills. Had to make sure you were in a safe gear before you started down in manuals.