Shadowplay: The Crow Documentary

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  • čas přidán 2. 10. 2022
  • My tribute to the legacy of the Crow: in particular Brandon Lee and James O'Barr. This fan made Documentary style compilation covers the background history on both Mr. Lee and Mr. O'Barr, also digging into the inception of their involvement with The Crow, before expanding into it's modern day legacy.
    This is a project made by a fan for fans as both salute and tribute to everyone involved in the project and also the legions of fans who continue to keep this classic relevant to this day.
    Be sure to like and subscribe if you want to see similar content in the future!
    ***************************************
    A great next level way to support the channel is to commission a video topic in order to support the creation of new content, visit the paypal or buy me a coffee tipjar link below to make your request.
    www.paypal.com/paypalme/launc...
    www.buymeacoffee.com/thelaunc...
    I almost exclusively use commissioned requests for new videos. Also, I personally thank them for their support & feedback and have begun including their name in a 'supporter shout out ' on the video .
    Video Timestamps
    ---------------------------------
    Brandon Lee Background: (START - 15:14)
    James O'Barr Background & Inspiration for Writing the Crow: (15:15 -43:17)
    Cast and Crew Commentary during the making of the film: (43:18)
    Media Coverage after the Death of Brandon Lee: (1:04:30)
    Siskel and Ebert Review of the Film; (1:25:33)
    Clips covering the impact and legacy of the film: (1:29:00)
    Michael Massee speaks for the only time ever about accidentally shooting Brandon: (1:36:02)
    Eliza speaks out for the only time about the death of Brandon: (1:41:16)
    A panel of Crow Cast members share memories of Brandon Lee: (1:42:53)
    James O' Barr talks about the legacy and future of the crow: (1:45:12)
    Final Send off to both legends (1:59:20)
    I don't own any copyrights of the videos, just a fan who spliced it all together for educational purposes.
    *Uploaded under fair use so don't be dicks and take it down! *
    #thecrow #brandonlee
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Komentáře • 132

  • @TheLaunchPadStudio
    @TheLaunchPadStudio  Před 6 měsíci +10

    A great next level way to support the channel is to commission a video topic in order to bolster the creation of new content. Or if you feel like donating a one off tip because you appreciate the content, visit the paypal or buy me a coffee tipjar link below.
    www.paypal.com/paypalme/launchpadpodcast
    www.buymeacoffee.com/thelaunchpad
    I almost exclusively use commissioned requests for new videos. Also, I have begun including their name in a 'supporter shout out ' on the corresponding video .
    & Be sure to LIKE and Subscribe if you want to see similar content in the future!!!

  • @frederiklikesgames6481
    @frederiklikesgames6481 Před rokem +88

    As much as i love KEANU, I really could see BRANDON as Neo in the MATRIX series, his martial art skills are way above those of most actors of the nineties

    • @mikeyfn-a6684
      @mikeyfn-a6684 Před 5 měsíci

      And even to this day. You can't forget what his dad's DNA, which he carried, is responsible for.
      "Bruce Lee developed a martial art technique called jeet kune do, a blend of ancient kung fu, fencing, boxing, and philosophy, which he began teaching"

    • @tacobellalugosi2527
      @tacobellalugosi2527 Před 4 měsíci +6

      He would have been a hell of a John wick . Plus a lot of these roles where just made for him

    • @deannamarie8389
      @deannamarie8389 Před měsícem +5

      Well, the role of Neo was written with Brandon Lee in mind to play the character.

  • @dcthief
    @dcthief Před 6 měsíci +20

    There are two types of people in the world; those that have been touched by the crow and those that haven’t seen it yet.

  • @lisac7199
    @lisac7199 Před rokem +47

    RIP Beautiful Brandon Lee 💔😢

  • @jesusrios9482
    @jesusrios9482 Před 4 měsíci +10

    This is the reason the Crow is such a iconic movie because the lost of love in the movie comes from an actual source that was just given an outlet... absolutely heartbreaking story❤❤❤

  • @markanderson3509
    @markanderson3509 Před rokem +50

    It's sad when you hear him talking in that last interview and how optimistic he was and how fortunate he felt for getting that part in The Crow and not knowing a week and half after that interview he was killed.

  • @5050TM
    @5050TM Před rokem +36

    Brandon had such a beautiful voice.

  • @SamoanObsidian
    @SamoanObsidian Před 24 dny +1

    The integrated Crow film/comic and the individuals associated in it, esp the essential ones like James O Barr and Brandon Lee, are my darlings. In 1998,' the comic novel to commence with, for me, is what swept me absently in an instant. I remembered the initial occasion I had seen the cover of the comic book, it was at a public library in West Valley Utah, and it was the ominous cover I had ever seen and it gripped my attention without question. The second I opened to the first page, I started reading, and my face was streaming with tears. Two months later, I subsequently found out there was a film based on the comic book called The Crow starring Brandon Lee. I finally had the chance to see it at a friend's house and had been instantly obsessed with it ever since then. No film made in any industry has ever won me over since the crow and probably no film in the future ever will.

  • @janna7777
    @janna7777 Před rokem +30

    The Crow is my favourite movie of all time❤️🌹and will always be❤️
    Reast in Peace❤️🌹

  • @JH-ks9oi
    @JH-ks9oi Před 7 měsíci +5

    As a "Chinese descendant" who's great grandfather was the very first Chinese born restaurant owner in Dallas TX, BEFORE CHINESE COULD LEGALLY OWN PROPERTY, Bruce Lee was our hero! As a young man I loved Brandon! I have everything Bruce n Brandon made, wrote, recorded, I love The Crow I saw it in theaters over n over n over n over, Pure joy and heartbreak

  • @firefury6053
    @firefury6053 Před 8 měsíci +11

    Brandon Lee will forever be Eric Draven. He was a beautiful legend. It's a shame that a reboot of "The Crow" has been made. Very disrespectful considering Brandon died for this movie. Rip Brandon and Bruce Lee. Thank you so much for this video.

    • @Moviefan2k4
      @Moviefan2k4 Před 4 měsíci

      I think that while Brandon loved making "The Crow", and sadly died while doing so, it would be wrong to say his passing was *for* the movie. The incident that killed him was a tragic accident born from irresponsible safety regulations, nothing more.

  • @Moviefan2k4
    @Moviefan2k4 Před 4 měsíci +8

    "The Crow" is one of my favorite movies, period. I first saw it on TV in 1995, and instantly fell in love with it. The story, characters, action, musical score - all of it is just fantastic. The tragedy of Brandon's death only gives the film an added layer of emotional depth, and the fact it was finished at all afterward is a true testament to how many people loved him.

  • @Kwistoweeish
    @Kwistoweeish Před 8 měsíci +22

    The more I learn about him, the more heartbroken I am that he was taken so early! What a remarkably talented, emotionally intelligent, gentle soul.

  • @kittypurry57
    @kittypurry57 Před 8 měsíci +11

    "Can't rain all the time" like his wonderful father, Brandon's legacy is everlasting. The Crow taught us: justice for victims, to have faith in what you believe and that love is even stronger than death.
    Forever missed Brandon we love you

    • @mig1017
      @mig1017 Před 23 dny

      Great comment. Thanks for posting that. It was beautiful

  • @JenJen-mw2zd
    @JenJen-mw2zd Před měsícem +3

    Just a sad fkn time that was and still is. It's hard to believe it's been 31 years. it feels like yesterday. Watching him in interviews is amazing and painful all at once because his beauty and magnificence was yet to be realised and immortalised at the same time. Fck. Heartbreaking, still.
    The Crow is the only film that means more than the original intent and more than anyone could have ever imagined.
    Only one Crow, R.I.P BL♡

  • @drewrosecrans9728
    @drewrosecrans9728 Před rokem +15

    And funboy passed away awhile back too rip!!! he was in supernatural

  • @Chilidolff44
    @Chilidolff44 Před rokem +23

    Took alot of time and effort with this mate, great tribute ❤ hopefully the scarkard version of the crow will be just how James o' Barr would want. Because you just won't ever capture the pure bliss of a film that is Brandon Lee's the crow 🦅

    • @TheLaunchPadStudio
      @TheLaunchPadStudio  Před rokem +2

      Yeah i hope it's like O ' Barr said. He seemed pretty adamant he wasn't going to allow them to just copy the 94' version. Personally, i hope it's in the realm of the comic instead of the B-lee film

  • @xx7secondsxx
    @xx7secondsxx Před rokem +16

    @1:25:00
    It's like the SAME EXACT thing that was said and happened with Heath and his amazing portrayal as the Joker

  • @butchersbucket
    @butchersbucket Před 10 měsíci +7

    In the UK we heard about brandons passing on april fools day.. i thought my friend was messing with me so i ignored him. Being a big bruce lee fan and finding his son was doing movies from show down in little tokyo i was excited for what was to come. We will never know what he would bring to those roles and that is the biggest tragedy as a fan of his films. Obviously thats a personal feeling and i respect the loss of his family

  • @yvettegomez-garza4613
    @yvettegomez-garza4613 Před měsícem +1

    This movie is so iconic, I had so much love for his father and him. He would have been an amazing talent if he had the chance. But in his short life, he made a difference and forever be loved and missed!

  • @catspawgardner3213
    @catspawgardner3213 Před rokem +14

    I cringe at the questions these talk show hosts ask Brandon or any celebrity in general.

  • @Cantona_81
    @Cantona_81 Před měsícem +2

    🖤Saw this movie at least 100 times on vhs!

  • @TheKingWhoWins
    @TheKingWhoWins Před rokem +15

    This was really great

    • @TheLaunchPadStudio
      @TheLaunchPadStudio  Před rokem +5

      Thanks for watching!

    • @DweeD1516
      @DweeD1516 Před rokem +1

      @@TheLaunchPadStudio Like what your channel is about and your consistency with that theme. Not sure how long you have been around but you have earned a new sub out of me! Much love!

    • @TheLaunchPadStudio
      @TheLaunchPadStudio  Před rokem

      @@DweeD1516 It's great to hear your support for the content! It goes a long way in terms of motivation to make additional videos of this style. Thanks!

  • @adrianexo21
    @adrianexo21 Před 8 měsíci +4

    he had a great laugh and a really special personality.

  • @prasg1186
    @prasg1186 Před měsícem +1

    1:03:50 Wise beyond his years.. RIP

  • @Neyo_Cast
    @Neyo_Cast Před 10 měsíci +3

    This guy is SOOO wise, direct no Bs....❤

  • @bradjbourgeois73
    @bradjbourgeois73 Před 6 měsíci +2

    Not to throw shade on anyone else involved with this movie, but Brandon was so cool! This movie is one of my favorites of all time!

  • @drewrosecrans9728
    @drewrosecrans9728 Před rokem +17

    Taken away too soon! Rip brother I remember when I first heard about his passing rip 💜💜💜💜💜

  • @gonesavage
    @gonesavage Před 10 měsíci +3

    1:03:54 messed me up! So glad he was so proud to do this film and it gave him a lot of joy.

  • @maryduarte3248
    @maryduarte3248 Před rokem +5

    We all will see them again. Later

  • @CallingALLmarks
    @CallingALLmarks Před 2 měsíci +1

    I took my name from the character. I've been obsessed with the Crow since the first time I saw the trailer on TV as a kid. I have most of the comics and novels. It resonated with me my whole life basically. I love the Crow. Such a powerful story

  • @SHAWNEESKYWALKER
    @SHAWNEESKYWALKER Před rokem +4

    It was his time. The guy who said such a stupid thing better have been investigated.

  • @ScotsGal
    @ScotsGal Před rokem +9

    I love the the crow comics...James o'barr is the definition of a tortured genius...I'm a true crow movie /comics fan and I haven't seen a better documentary than this one.... by the way who was the knob at 127:28 "Well I don't compare this film favourably to either blade runner or batman ..I dont think its as good as either one of those "what an utter bell end

  • @tracyomalley9470
    @tracyomalley9470 Před 7 měsíci +2

    Í love the way he looked at life, his values..so like his father ❤ and his laugh ❤❤ so beautiful RIP Bruce and Brandon you were taken away far too soon but heaven got two of the most beautiful, humble people the world was blessed with ❤❤❤❤❤

  • @anekamckenzie9504
    @anekamckenzie9504 Před 9 měsíci +5

    Thank you for sharing this. Very informative & beautiful. Still one of the most powerful stories i have heard both in terms of the fictional story of the crow & the real life story of the people who were a part of making it

  • @JakeLo1991
    @JakeLo1991 Před rokem +7

    Very outstanding work, but I am so disappointed that it didn't have the interviews where he did with Entertaining Weekley promoting Rapid Fire.

  • @haileyshannon7548
    @haileyshannon7548 Před rokem +5

    3:46 The Will Rogers Story from 1952 starred Will Rogers Jr. as his father. Guri Weinsburg played his father Moshe Weinsburg in Munich.

  • @wilder11
    @wilder11 Před rokem +29

    Man, I knew Brandon Lee was a pleasant interviewee, but James O'Barr was incredibly interesting to listen to.
    39:12 And Hollywood's only gotten WORSE on that front. XD
    But man, listen to these interviews. All of them. These actors are actually discussing their role and the screenplay with some care and intent, and quite a bit of insight. Now it seems like actor interviews are just tailored to be funny and disposable.

    • @jotun.616
      @jotun.616 Před 6 měsíci

      I love me some good times joking around press tours, but yea, ppl taking the source material, etc so seriously is rarely seen anymore. Cuz these types of ppl, the ones actually trying to make art, have all been pushed out by the insane cost of making movies these days. I understand studios needing to profit, but theyre the ones who built this system where everything has to make a billion dollars. Now that disney has botched that model hopefully the system will crawl back some and we can get considerate film making again. I used to check the dvd releases for what to pirate every couple weeks. I havent looked in like two years now. Just fucking nothing coming out thats even worth pirating.

  • @kathrynmcnerney6490
    @kathrynmcnerney6490 Před rokem +7

    Thank you! I appreciate this 🙏

  • @marx_dissent
    @marx_dissent Před rokem +5

    This is so beautiful. So tragic, I feel for everyone one this affected.

  • @randomguysays
    @randomguysays Před 9 měsíci +1

    🎶 So lay back down and close your eyes 🎶 sleep awhile you must be tired 🎶

  • @jesusrios9482
    @jesusrios9482 Před 4 měsíci +1

    You know everybody interviewed this young man like if they were his therapist. This guy as you could tell by the way he speaks with super intelligent but almost everybody that interview them interview them like he was a kid in Foster care

  • @pamalagregory156
    @pamalagregory156 Před 8 měsíci

    He was so handsome! The Crow is one of my favorite movies!! Sad he was so young when he passed!
    R.I.P Brandon Bruce Lee

  • @PACKYCSONE80
    @PACKYCSONE80 Před 4 měsíci +1

    Brandon died while I was taking Jeet kune do in high school and it broke my heart

  • @MrDravenLee
    @MrDravenLee Před 11 měsíci +1

    Bruce and Brandon Lee The best ever ❤❤

  • @almi5260
    @almi5260 Před 6 měsíci +1

    I can completely tell that the woman interviewing him is completely smitten by him lol I don't blame her one bit...

  • @CallingALLmarks
    @CallingALLmarks Před 2 měsíci +1

    Holy shit.. the Brandon interview where he says he didn't come up with a catch phrase for this movie a crew member did.. "Was to, loaded" wow 😢

  • @artsaganza8742
    @artsaganza8742 Před 2 měsíci +1

    very well done, i look forward to more of your work and it helped inspire my own projects.

  • @Artemisia6Crowfoot
    @Artemisia6Crowfoot Před 6 hodinami

    All of the people who interviewed Brandon were so bad. They all focused so much on his father instead of getting to know him. Sad because he seemed like such an interesting man.

  • @jasonleveck8546
    @jasonleveck8546 Před rokem +4

    Still haunting and beautiful.

  • @marcusiA-immortalistMarcus
    @marcusiA-immortalistMarcus Před 7 měsíci +1

    Ohhh damn! The story about the died lady is soo terrible. What a great video. It's a shame that great people die, that people die !

  • @KevinKrayden
    @KevinKrayden Před rokem +5

    Fantastic job with this compilation!
    A lot of the David Carradine segment had music from Big Trouble in Little China. They must have licensed it to that show.

  • @donovandelaney3171
    @donovandelaney3171 Před 2 měsíci +1

    And that's what Brandon did in a parallel universe.

  • @xtina6569
    @xtina6569 Před rokem +3

    Lol the scenes he picks out for his review before the heated debate didn't even have brandon in them. It was filmed after he died with a double

  • @maryduarte3248
    @maryduarte3248 Před rokem +4

    Cool thanks for sharing

  • @teensy13
    @teensy13 Před 7 měsíci +1

    This is so beautiful. I love the attention paid to James and his story. I wasn't expecting tragedy all the way down! 😅

    • @TheLaunchPadStudio
      @TheLaunchPadStudio  Před 7 měsíci +2

      Both the story of Brandon AND James deserved to be shown. One without the other would be weird to me haha

    • @teensy13
      @teensy13 Před 7 měsíci

      I don't know if you've already done this, but James' Wikipedia page could use development and you already found the sources....😁

    • @teensy13
      @teensy13 Před 7 měsíci

      I'm sorry I'm obsessed, I'd never seen the comic before this documentary you made and HOLY SHIT JAMES COMMISSIONED THE MUSIC

  • @user-os6nd9fi1k
    @user-os6nd9fi1k Před 4 měsíci

    Era hermoso Brandon Lee, lamentable q se haya ido tan joven y con un futuro esplendoroso por delante

  • @age_of_reason
    @age_of_reason Před rokem +4

    Jay Leno is so out of his league in that interview. Like a Jaywalking Episode character.

  • @StrayDogGhostBlues
    @StrayDogGhostBlues Před 10 měsíci +1

    People don't give Sting honorable mention and Scott Halls 2 cents. The crow is an archetype, ancient psychology that is such beauty in the darkness. The moon gaze of lunacy. Mix it with depression and drugs. Throw it all in an era of excess.

  • @FUCKINGENIOUS
    @FUCKINGENIOUS Před rokem +3

    Interesting. Ty

  • @retter2critical
    @retter2critical Před 6 měsíci

    Thank you for this. The bluray extras didnt really offer much, this was good.

  • @cathic
    @cathic Před měsícem

    amazing

  • @strettoasino9006
    @strettoasino9006 Před měsícem

    Douglas Fairbanks and jr,
    Lon Cheney and jr,
    Bruce and Brandon Lee...

  • @tanyalarose8907
    @tanyalarose8907 Před 2 měsíci

    This was really good!

  • @shawnw9301
    @shawnw9301 Před 8 měsíci +2

    🙏🏾💔🙏🏾

  • @retter2critical
    @retter2critical Před 6 měsíci +1

    EPIC

  • @jameshetfield007
    @jameshetfield007 Před rokem +1

    Please what's the song used when Shannon lee talks about Brandon and the strict diet he followed to prepare for the crow

  • @thousandstepsaniaaa
    @thousandstepsaniaaa Před 8 měsíci

    Brandon ❤❤❤❤❤

  • @Steveo3332
    @Steveo3332 Před 6 měsíci

    One of my favorite movies my son's name is Brandon Lee

  • @framedcargo_prints4337
    @framedcargo_prints4337 Před rokem +1

    I had idea of crow video game set in the 90s in the assassin's creed universe.

    • @TheLaunchPadStudio
      @TheLaunchPadStudio  Před rokem +1

      I'd play it! Sadly the actual crow video game for ps1 was awful

    • @framedcargo_prints4337
      @framedcargo_prints4337 Před rokem +1

      ​@@TheLaunchPadStudio yeah... I remember that game back in the day I play it on the psx, the controls on it was horrible and I believe it was based on the second crow movie.

  • @thousandstepsaniaaa
    @thousandstepsaniaaa Před 8 měsíci

    Brandon ❤❤❤❤

  • @MrDravenLee
    @MrDravenLee Před 11 měsíci +1

    ❤❤🙏🙏

  • @gonulcalkran6801
    @gonulcalkran6801 Před 8 měsíci

    Brandon lee he looks just like his father

  • @maryduarte3248
    @maryduarte3248 Před rokem +7

    Bruce and Brandon lee were a taken too soon still young

  • @jeffmatherly4105
    @jeffmatherly4105 Před 9 měsíci +2

    I can barely get through the media coverage. I hate the way they covered his death.

  • @DanielJordanofficial
    @DanielJordanofficial Před 7 měsíci

    He was about to carve out an entire lane of his own. It’s such a shame.

  • @handsomemarco29
    @handsomemarco29 Před 7 měsíci +1

    He said he was wearing a bullet proof vest..and shoot at 20 times! Something doesn't sound right about that..since he was killed by a bullet to the abdomen.

  • @Maria-co6nt
    @Maria-co6nt Před 11 měsíci

    Nem❤

  • @ShiroMiura-fy4lw
    @ShiroMiura-fy4lw Před 7 měsíci +2

    His hair is fantastic. Not gay.

  • @Neyo_Cast
    @Neyo_Cast Před 10 měsíci

    iiiiiii don't think there was tabaco in that cigarette Brandon 😜🤙

  • @xx7secondsxx
    @xx7secondsxx Před rokem +7

    @ 1:17:00
    All the conspiracy stuff n talk when we now kno EXACTLY what happened on the set n stuff.
    Simply just pure chaos that happened

    • @TheLaunchPadStudio
      @TheLaunchPadStudio  Před rokem +5

      A lot of weird coincidences for sure that are really mind boggling to think about, but I'm not convinced it was "true conspiracy" over unfortunate negligent movie production practices.

    • @xx7secondsxx
      @xx7secondsxx Před rokem +1

      It was the same a and overdose.... a purely unintentional accident

    • @FUCKINGENIOUS
      @FUCKINGENIOUS Před rokem +2

      Ahh a skeptic. I lean towards conspiracy.

  • @gonulcalkran6801
    @gonulcalkran6801 Před 8 měsíci

    Like daddy,s voice

  • @TNHFPRODUCTIONS987
    @TNHFPRODUCTIONS987 Před rokem +2

    I did the movie in the Black & White with the flashbacks in color also the skull Cowboy footage is restored

  • @Pierre-LucBeauregard
    @Pierre-LucBeauregard Před 14 dny

    Brandon Lee was so sexy that even 100% straight men like me aren't afraid to admit it haha

  • @gluckystrong3336
    @gluckystrong3336 Před rokem +3

    I like Bruce Lee. I love Brandon ❤but I’m straight tho😂

  • @jotun.616
    @jotun.616 Před 6 měsíci

    I mean, there is such a thing as a prop gun lol some of them are just a solid piece of rubber.

  • @StrayDogGhostBlues
    @StrayDogGhostBlues Před 10 měsíci

    I think Stephen King and j.o. barr are some of the greatest look at Clive Barker, Todd McFarland, billy Morgan, etc...ya know I mean kurdt lol etc..there's a gripping reality

  • @Neyo_Cast
    @Neyo_Cast Před 10 měsíci

    The musical would have prevented his death 😢😢😢😢 RIP B Lee❤

  • @TNHFPRODUCTIONS987
    @TNHFPRODUCTIONS987 Před rokem

    1:06:30 who is this guy
    He’s the one who murdered Brandon Lee

  • @pauliedibbs9028
    @pauliedibbs9028 Před 10 měsíci

    "I mean it's all a conspiracy"

    • @bergyni
      @bergyni Před 3 měsíci

      Why? is he alive?

  • @sweatyballsac
    @sweatyballsac Před měsícem

    The chick who asked him what he thought his dad would say if he were alive, what a dumb question but Brandon handled it very well.

  • @KissgirlKissgirl-tt9ci
    @KissgirlKissgirl-tt9ci Před 4 měsíci

    BRANDON AND BRUCE LEE FOREVER

  • @KissgirlKissgirl-tt9ci
    @KissgirlKissgirl-tt9ci Před 11 měsíci +2

    Brandon was extremely sexy

  • @d___c____5604
    @d___c____5604 Před 11 měsíci +3

    For the record, Bruce Lee HATED David Carradine.

  • @bitchinkitchen3084
    @bitchinkitchen3084 Před rokem +2

    at what point did they have him take the bullet proof vest off?

    • @R005TERILLUSION
      @R005TERILLUSION Před rokem +3

      It was the scene where Eric and Shelly got murdered in the beginning

    • @markanderson3509
      @markanderson3509 Před rokem +1

      You do have to wonder if he was wearing a bullet proof vest for a scene before that interview then why wouldn't he be wearing one in all the shooting scenes especially in close up shots like in the scene he was actually shot, it could have all turned out much different if he had been wearing one that night.

    • @ArganRyan
      @ArganRyan Před 8 měsíci

      I expect it was much less a 'bulletproof' vest, and more of a rigid vest to protect him from all the squib explosions going off at once on his torso. He only had a single squib for the apartment scene, and likely just a small plate behind it. Neither would be actually "bullet proof".

    • @bergyni
      @bergyni Před 3 měsíci +1

      @@markanderson3509 they said that he himself refused, it’s unclear why