Shawn's moveset didn't make sense and he wouldn't put his opponent's over in the 90's so you couldn't tell a good story with him as a heel, but he was too big of a douche to work as a face. Great worker, couldn't build a profitable product around him. The company died off with him on top.
HBK is the greatest wrestler like Matt Damon is the best action star. You can't call anyone the best if you can't take him seriously. At no point in a Shawn match did I actually feel it was a realistic competition.
@@BarbaPamino See but I don’t know about that. As much as I don’t think Shawn could take on the entire world; whenever he had those street fights he looked like he had some crazy hick energy. Almost all matches where he’s bleeding (2nd run) he gets that crazed look in his eyes like it’s kill or be killed last stand sorta thing. I bought into that. I think it made his matches more believable and emotional, from the Survivor Series 2003 tag match, to his Bad Blood 2004 match, even to his match with Edge on RAW in 2005, or New Years Revolution 2006
@@carljohnson5301 maybe you weren't around then. HBK was the first instant where the world champion both looked like a guy that couldn't shoot, and actually couldn't shoot.
@@BarbaPamino Eh idk some people have the same criticisms of Bret Hart as well or Steve Austin. Theyre all at 6ft or a little over 6ft, but look like they’d get squashed by a giant such as Diesel. But they look like they could still beat any Joe Schmoe, regular guy. Maybe some people didn’t take Shawn seriously due to his gimmick but to me that never translated to his matches. Like I said though, post 98 run although his body type was not there I think he still had a factor of believability in certain matches. I’d still regard him as the Best Of All Time as far as wrestling is concerned but that depends on what your criteria is
@@carljohnson5301 it's not just about size. Shawn looked and sounded like a coward. It didn't help that he always got beat up in real life and it made the news. Van Damme and Bruce Lee were both much smaller than Ben Affleck but both are more believable action stars.
Eddie Guerrero, AJ Styles and HBK are 3 that I consider to be Goats. Kenny is really good and him and Okada are making it up there on my all time favorites.
All I will say is this. With Shawn, not only will Shawn come out looking good, so will whoever is in the ring with him. That's rare. Kenny's great. He is. But Shawn... I dunno... I will say this, I can see the debate.
@@russelljordan7688 Kenny is a good wrestler, but I’d say he’s far from the best or better than Flair or HBK. He’s wrestled in New Japan and is in AEW now.
@@BenisBroductions It is close, I just think at that point his persona was a bit too vanilla, there were more over-the-top emotions, facial expressions and selling (I'm not just referring to the Hogan match), a bit too much punching, and he had lost a lot of muscle mass so didn't look as convincing as a threat. I'm really nitpicking here as I love his second run as well. But 1997 HBK (not his backstage antics, his on-camera persona) was just untouchable in terms of look, swagger, confidence, and in-ring ability. He sold like a million bucks for his opponents, and every move he executed looked so extremely smooth.
@@ronnycrypto8986 I agree with a lot of those points. I just personally think with his better attitude he had better matches. Also a WIDE range of dance partners. But both runs are so good it’s honestly amazing how consistently great Shawn really was
Pre ankle injury Brian Pillman was a great athlete and saw him do a standing drop kick on a wrestler was on the top turn buckle. Macho Man, Ricky Steamboat are in that conversation too but Michaels and AJ are top of the heap
@@pihermoso11 bro Bret Is all hype joor I’m sorry but this coming from a ruthless aggression kid bred died off in the old days so a lot of people still feel wary about him unlike Shawn who had the opportunity to revient him self see see I even think Chris Jericho is better than Kenny rn , you don’t just teach that kinda experience
@@pihermoso11 Michaels isn't close to been in the conversation of TECHNICAL wrestling with Bret Hart, let alone guys like Angle, Benoit, Dynamite Kid, Malenko etc
Don't think jake would have that opinion if hadn't been paid well by aew the last few years lol. Michaels in ring psychology alone is well clear of omega!
@@jacemacfie1475 it's really not. The only time Kenny shows any real ring psychology is when he's serious, which is almost never. He's usually too busy doing jazz hands.
@@dustinwallace I think it's funny they let a shrimp like Shawn fight in the heavyweight category. He always looked like ic or tag tier to me. Like most guys who do moonsaults and sidekicks.
Kenny is a good athlete with 0 fundamentals. Flair is the master of fundamentals and HBK is what Omega and The Bucks wish they were. He was the complete package. He had it all. Jake is just being a company man. EDIT: This is coming from a Bret Hart mark btw
Shawn was never the complete package. He could never pull off looking like a heavyweight contender. He was a lightweight who used wussy moonsaults for nerds like you to mark out over. Shawn's ring psychology almost non existent.
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 yeah I'll take the word of some retarded, bitter mark on youtube over flair, stone cold & Bret 😂 your opinion has 0 value go cry some more. Everything you just said was erroneous & opinionated I got dumber reading what you wrote & have a hard time believing you've ever watched Rock n Roll Express Matches or Bret vs Shawn or Taker vs Shawn bc you sound ignorant AF rn. Nonexistent in-ring psychology? Only high spots? Did you watch the fucking Flair match? Just stop. You clearly have a vendetta against Michaels. It's sad to see bitter marks pathetically attempt to tear down the greats He could work, sell, cut a promo & look like a top-level star doing it. Most stars today can't even do two of those things. Never heard anyone speak on Shawn's Work as poorly as you, especially from those who actually worked with him and not some snarky social media know-it-all. But I'm sure you know more, so by all means continue your condescending superiority when you're a wrestling nerd and a mark yourself, dipshit. You're using insider terms just like the smark you are. Go suck off Hogan and the NWO some more. Your takes are ice cold. "Flair killed WCW" lmfao no one agrees with your horrible opinions 😂
1:22 it doesn’t matter how many times someone can bounce on a trampoline and do a backflip. Wrestling is about storytelling, making people believe the story, and being a good character. Flair is being nice! Omega is nadda c compared to Flair heel! Whooo
Although Kenny does a lot of "cool" moves, Michael's and many others could probably do a lot of that stuff too. It just makes no sense in terms of simulating a real fight.
Shawn Michaels did not go too far and if you watched his regular matches versus his main event matches he does not wrestle the same at all... similar to AJ Styles has more ability in the ring that Shawn Michaels, but I feel Shawn with his promo skills and so on attached too... Kenny Omega sadly does everything nearly all the time, outside of his One Winged Angel everything else he does seems bland to me, cause of how he over does it...
@@nadeemg1831 that’s what’s so hilarious about especially old head wrestling fans. They hate the Bucks & Omega especially as well as other wrestling for “exposing the business” and not making their matches look “real” when literally no match in the history of wrestling ever looked like a real fight. No real fight would have suplexes, piledrivers, clotheslines, elbow drops, etc. Real fights last a few minutes maximum. Ricky Morton even referenced how Bucks matches look similar to Midnight Express vs Rock N Roll Express matches.
@@playboy_x dude off course wrestling ain't gonna ever resemble a straight fight, but everything these Indy bros do today is so over the top lunacy, it's an insult to your intelligence as a viewer
Kenny is obviously very good don't get me wrong but it's pretty clear to me Jake only said that crap because he's currently employed by aew so he's trying to be a homer for them.
@@davidgraham8299 you should listen to his podcast. Guess he is lying then because that's what he says. I don't watch aew or keep up with it, but I have listened to every episode of jakes podcast
Kenny is excellent and he is certainly in the top 5 in regards to modern wrestlers but I'd say Samoa Joe is up there as well and Jacob Fatu on his own is better than The Bloodline combined.
THAT DSNT PROVE SHIT!!! Jake could’ve put over anybody in AEW. He didn’t put over Mox Jericho.. he didn’t say Lance archer is better than bruiser Brody. He didn’t say Adam. Page is better than Bob Orton. He he compared to Kenny to the greatest worker of all time. Don’t sit there and pretend that you know what motivates Jake Roberts. You could be right… but you can’t talk about it with any certainty.. and you are🤡
@@JaxTheGat sorry your feelings are hurt, but unfortunately logic doesn't work that way... everybody knows that the common narrative from aew fanboys is that Kenny Oliviay is the greatest wrestler of all time. Not bob Orton or the others you mentioned. Wow you just embarrassed yourself pretty badly... I'd delete that comment before anyone else can see it.
It isn't even close. Kenny may have put together better choreography, but he is not a better performer. Selling alone and HBK is in the conversation with like 4 other people and none of them are even wrestling anymore.
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 to a point yeah I do agree with that. But then at the same time, look at his street fights with Edge, or non sanctioned with HHH at summerslam. Yeah he’s style was kinda like a ballet, but that was his style? That’s one reason why he stood out, not a lot of guys now have their legit own style.
Lol all he and 90 percent of guys in AEW do is run around as fast and they possibly can and do flips that's the exact opposite of telling a story it's just a spotfest 24/7 that doesn't make a great wrestler Omega will never be better than Shawn Michaels
Kenny v prime 1996-2005 HBK would have been the greatest match of all time. As much as I love Omega, he's no HBK. HBK is on another level of greatness.
I think moveset wise, pace and athletic ability. You gotta give it to Kenny Omega. As far as selling, story telling, acting and the ability to get investment from the fans it’s Shawn Michaels.
Kenny is more athletic but Shawn was the better worker. His matches made sense, he did his "high spots" at the right time and he can have a match with anybody and adapt to their style. He can have a technical match with Bret and Kurt and shelton he brawl with mankind and stone cold or cena he can have a high flying match with The kid or Mysterio or y2j or have big man vs little man with diesel, sid or undertaker
I disagree. Shawn is not a better worker. I've watched many of his matches recently and they don't make sense. Way too many high spots for the sake of a high spot. All these pointless moonsaults into tables so he can lay around groggy for 5 minutes. It gets old fast. And he didn't always have great matches with guys. His Vader match was crap. His Sid matches were unwatchable. His Wrestlemania match with Diesel was putrid. I could go on.
Surely you’re not trying to say this while you’re some massive AJ Styles mark who can’t be taken seriously the second he speaks with the worst accent in wrestling
Being a great pro wrestler that's a hard thing to determine. I think there are so many factors. What makes a truly great professional wrestler? Is it drawing ability, of course you would have to factor in that. Is it the ability to work safely, to put on long matches and keep the fans interested? Is it a large moveset? How do you truly determine what a great pro wrestler is? Ric Flair just said Jake Roberts was a great wrestler and he was but Jake Roberts basically snapped jabs, wrenched his opponents arm, did a short clothesline and set up for the ddt, and he kept the fans interested in his matches. Then you have guys like Lance Storm or Dean Malenko who never had to do the same move twice in any of their matches but they never really became household names so what does that say about being a great wrestler?
You need to be relatable, hatable but above else some sort of personality or charisma. Malenko may have been the best actual wrestler but that only gets you so far.
Me personally I think Jake was smoking crack and drinking too much when he said that lol 🤣 it may be time to go back to rehab when you start having hallucinations.
i wanna see kenny do it in the big leagues in WWE headline WrestleMania then we can talk even if u only do wwe for 4 years ...then we can talk i dont think kenny can out draw what HBK did thats for sure but ratings and "draw" were different back in the 90s tho IDK if HBK ever did a stint in japan at the time that would of been cool
He's already at the ass end of his career and he isn't even 40 yet. And it's largely because of all the dumb and unnecessary spots he's done. But don't get me wrong. He's only worth a shit when he decides to be serious which is almost never.
All Kenny would have to do is main event in the Tokyo Dome once to outdraw 1990s Shawn. Shawn had trouble drawing 10,000 to the building. Because he was a lightweight being pushed as a serious heavyweight.
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 oh, I see. You're one of those mud show fans that whacks it to the trampoline cowboys. 🤣🤣🤣 Is this Brandon Cutlet's burner account? 🤔
Ok let’s put it this way Kenny is on there level but it is a different era now but I do agree with ric on Shawn Michaels if Shawn was in this era he’d be the best now but Kenny is the goat of this era hands down as well as danielson and AJ
In reality the wrestlers decided over all how is the best. Us fans have our opinions but them guys get in there a wrestle and see things and hear things we don't. No arguments if people say austin Shawn aj Kenny hhh flair undertaker... There's so many out there to be considered the best! We are lucky as fans
@@liquidgeorge you do realise we all can read all your comments complaining and crying non stop over and over again with absolutely nothing positive to say! 😂 😂 There's a word for people like you the wrestlers use... 🤔 Mark isn't it! Haha 💀 or a f@t cheeto finger mf who hates the world because he hates himself and pretends he knows it all and complains and wines like a little pu$$¥ because he has nothing better to do!! lol 😭🤣
Gotta love the Nature Boy keeping it classy, and not adding any unnecessary fuel. On the real tho.......Kenny isn't on his or HBK's level. Flair vs Steamboat..classic. HBK vs Taker and HBK vs Angle...... classics. Not to mention both Legends are great on the mat and the stick. This isn't shade at Kenny, but facts are facts.
If a 30 year old plus Shawn Michaels still wrestled at 2010s and working with NJPW, he would have a slew of 5, 6, 7, 8 hell 10 star matches. He could even beat Misawa for the most number of 5-star matches.
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 @The Gough and Borden Family stupid. you would think shawn will not pull it off? shawn will have been beaten omega in 5-star matches if he went to NJPW in 2010s on his 30s.
Flair is a legend he may not of jumped from one side of ring to the other but he had it were it counts. You could love or hate his character. He makes it feel real Always a Flair fan.
@@johnsorto6737 As Ric said, though, he didn't really have a great repertoire of moves. It was his toughness of being able to do hour long matches 5 or 6 nights a week, and his character work, promos, etc. that make Ric one of the greatest, more than his actual wrestling skill.
@@marcatkinson4149 That's the wrestling skill. Skill is not doing a bunch of overly choreographed spots. It's about telling a story in the ring to get you over and the guy over.
I’m talking strictly from an athletic performance, Kenny is more athletic than Flair ever was. Flair said so himself. I don’t think Kenny is better than Michaels. I don’t think Kenny is better than Steamboat or Savage or RVD honestly. I’ve seen Styles have amazing matches, can’t say the same for Kenny. But that’s just my taste
HBK is the GOAT for sure. Almost every big name wrestler has said HBK is the best including guys like The Undertaker, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Booker T, Jeff Jarrett, John Cena, Vince McMahon, the entire Kliq etc. Nobody is even close to him in his body of work of 5 star matches and Match of the Years either.
@@briangoodie3420 . I think Brett hart is the better wrestler, but Shawn is a better entertainer, I think they are fairly equal and they actually made each other better. Omega doesn’t even crack the top 20.
@@briangoodie3420 Bret mentioned HBK as one of the best. All those guys I mentioned are guys that have said HBK is THE best. That's why I said "Almost" every big name wrestler that said HBK was the best.
Every big name wrestler like Jeff Jarrett Booker T Papa Shango Steve Lombardi...Plus the Kliq, Shawn's parents and wife and children say it. Lol Shawn's an acrobat. Bret Hart is far superior.
Could Omega keep schedule like a prime Flair? Traveling every day to a different territory carrying and making the local hero look great. Doing 4 one hour broadways a week and a total of 9 -11 matches a week. Omega is the best high spot wrestler ever. Omega only wrestles at best once a week. When he goes to Japan he has days to rest from jet lag. Flair would wrestle in Kansas City for example and that night and early day fly to Japan get off the plane and drive straight to the arena and wrestle for an hour no rest like todays workers. If you need someone to put on 30 good matches in a month with 15-20 different guys who half were bad workers all over the country Flair is the best ever vs Omega having 4 great matches with rest vs great elite workers is the best ever. Flair used to double shots in the same day in different states he would work an afternoon show in the Carolinas and fly to Tampa to close the show. Nobody did this like Flair.
The way omega wrestles he wouldn’t be able to he’d change that style quick ,nobody got that weak Ass schedule back in the 80s shut the 70s he’s be cannon fodder
Shawn Michaels had an outstanding over 25 year career...we will see if Kenny would one day be better. What we know is that Shawn stood in the Ring with most of the greatest ever...Hogan, Flair, Bret, Undertaker, Austin, Triple H, Kurt Angle, Nash, Hall, Mick Foley, Jeff Jarrett, Rick Martel, Tatanka, Marty Jannetty, Hacksaw, Nasty Boys, Demolition, Jericho, Cena, Backlund, Owen Hart, British Bulldog, Vader and so on...that's something Kenny Omega will never do
You're not a great wrestler if you're awful at selling or don't sell at all. Shawn sure knew how to. When he wasn't being overly silly with it (several times in big matches no less). Omega? Now that's funny.
Goes to show the harm that years of drug abuse can do. Jake suggesting that little twat could even lace Shawn’s boots is insane. Loved Jake back in the day, but this take is hysterical.
This is a really tough comparison and it’s close. I honestly think that Kenny is more talented/can do more in different styles of wrestling but HBK’s in-ring awareness and psychology are GOAT’d. Kenny in all good reality is probably the greatest pro wrestler of his era contrary to what a certain man with a Wendy’s podcast and his onion ring minions whine about. Objectively I think it’s one of those opinionated things where there’s not a wrong answer here one way to another. Shawn and Kenny are obviously Rushmore level talents.
Like Ric said we have to respect Jake's opinion since he's one of the all time greats, but I'm sure Jake would see things differently if he would have had the chance to wrestle Ric and Shawn several times. Sadly, he never was booked in big 1 on 1 matches with them.
@@mariuswilliams1527 I mean, he and Dory started in Texas, but he’s worked everywhere. He spent a lot of time in Japan (stints in All Japan, the International Wrestling Association of Japan and Frontier Martial-Arts Wrestling) and Puerto Rico (he’s been stabbed there twice), he did some time in Memphis (his famous Empty Arena match vs. Lawler took place there) and Florida (where he worked with Dusty quite a bit), and of course during his ECW days, he spent a lot of time in Philly. As for your other question, I’ve heard Flair talk about Funk before. He called him the greatest. Funk, on the other hand, a little less flattering about Flair - in his autobiography, “More Than Just Hardcore,” Funk called Flair a kiss-ass and a snitch, so I believe the love goes just one way there, though the respect of ring skills I’m sure is mutual.
Before AEW came around Kenny was on his way to getting into that GOAT conversation. I'd say while he was doing his trilogy with Okada he was far and away the best wrestler on the planet and it wasn't close. From the time AJ Styles left Japan to the time Kenny left Japan he was undeniable. Then since AEW he hasn't really been the same.
A shame to see Jake the snake show how looney he is by thinking Omega is up there like that. Flair doesn’t have a problem with it, but plenty of people here to say it for him
I'm going to go with no but imagine how great Kenny would be if he was simply under one week of Shawn Michael's tutelage it would go leaps and bounds. Don't believe me? Triple H, Daniel Bryan, Johnny Gargano, even fucking Logan Paul are prime examples of what HBK can teach you.
I like how Ric randomly put over Ricky Steamboat in this segment. Classy move.
Jakes fucking lost it if he thinks Omega is better than HBK
@@xred_spider_9157 I had to cut the podcast off and haven't watched one again since. got to regroup before I give him another chance LOL
Ricky Morton and steamboat are who they are the top of the heap
@@xred_spider_9157 money talks and Jake talks out of his ass anyway
@@dantedlane2 Ricky Morton could come to the ring at 80 and in a wheelchair and the crowd would go berserk I've never seen anything like it
Ric knows better than anyone. Shawn really is the greatest.
.. behind King Kong Bundy.
Lmao
Shawn's moveset didn't make sense and he wouldn't put his opponent's over in the 90's so you couldn't tell a good story with him as a heel, but he was too big of a douche to work as a face. Great worker, couldn't build a profitable product around him. The company died off with him on top.
And it’s not even close
@@EGarrett01so?
I came here waiting for ric to give Jake the mother of all trashings but that answer was pretty cool and dignified.
Subtle shot at Omega when Ric said, "i've seen 2 or 3 of his matches.." Lol
@ace loco yeah a dignified one normally he would've torn him to shreds
Hbk is the 🐐 I remember seeing countless legends say the same thing.
HBK is the greatest wrestler like Matt Damon is the best action star. You can't call anyone the best if you can't take him seriously. At no point in a Shawn match did I actually feel it was a realistic competition.
@@BarbaPamino See but I don’t know about that. As much as I don’t think Shawn could take on the entire world; whenever he had those street fights he looked like he had some crazy hick energy. Almost all matches where he’s bleeding (2nd run) he gets that crazed look in his eyes like it’s kill or be killed last stand sorta thing. I bought into that. I think it made his matches more believable and emotional, from the Survivor Series 2003 tag match, to his Bad Blood 2004 match, even to his match with Edge on RAW in 2005, or New Years Revolution 2006
@@carljohnson5301 maybe you weren't around then. HBK was the first instant where the world champion both looked like a guy that couldn't shoot, and actually couldn't shoot.
@@BarbaPamino Eh idk some people have the same criticisms of Bret Hart as well or Steve Austin. Theyre all at 6ft or a little over 6ft, but look like they’d get squashed by a giant such as Diesel. But they look like they could still beat any Joe Schmoe, regular guy. Maybe some people didn’t take Shawn seriously due to his gimmick but to me that never translated to his matches. Like I said though, post 98 run although his body type was not there I think he still had a factor of believability in certain matches. I’d still regard him as the Best Of All Time as far as wrestling is concerned but that depends on what your criteria is
@@carljohnson5301 it's not just about size. Shawn looked and sounded like a coward. It didn't help that he always got beat up in real life and it made the news. Van Damme and Bruce Lee were both much smaller than Ben Affleck but both are more believable action stars.
Eddie Guerrero, AJ Styles and HBK are 3 that I consider to be Goats. Kenny is really good and him and Okada are making it up there on my all time favorites.
Kurt angle? Just asking
@@herecomesdatrain he’s in my top 5 but most I feel like don’t consider Kurt a top 5 just because he had some of his best matches in TNA
Hbk clears aj styles
Jake Roberts feels that way, or is rather saying this because he is or was getting paid by AEW.
I agree Kenny is good but Michels can go with anyone
Jake's burned a LOT of bridges, therefore he's got to do this nonsense to remain on the good side of the EVPs.
So
This is Classy of Ric, but possibly because he knows just how damn good he was in the ring.
He was good in the ring but Shawn was great and there’s no denying that
Bret is my in-ring GOAT & nobody comes close. Believability, technical prowess/crisp execution & top tier storytelling were his strengths.
Agree. But for all Shawn's bad which is a lot he is a great performer no doubt is better than Kenny omega. Omega won't even come close imo..
I love me some Bret but Angle is better.
@@ShaneTumminellokurt is great but lacks Bret’s selling and psychology.
Kurt Angle has entered the chat
@@estefanguerrero2371 lol what? Did you miss his entire career? Literally no one picked up the entire business as fast as Kurt
All I will say is this. With Shawn, not only will Shawn come out looking good, so will whoever is in the ring with him. That's rare. Kenny's great. He is. But Shawn... I dunno... I will say this, I can see the debate.
Both are excellent wrestlers in a league of their own honestly.
Ric giving Jake props was cool, but RIC HAD TIME TODAY for DON CALLIS !
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Jake Roberts:
"Kenny Omega is better than Ric & Shawn"
Also Jake:
"I did every drug there ever was"
'Noted piss drinker, Jake Roberts.'
There’s NO WAY Kenny is better than Flair or HBK!!!!
Idk who Kenny Omega is but based on flairs commentary he definitely didn't beat out hbk or atleast hasn't yet
@@russelljordan7688 Kenny is a good wrestler, but I’d say he’s far from the best or better than Flair or HBK. He’s wrestled in New Japan and is in AEW now.
Idk about that one chief
Omega is a far better wrestler than Flair and I love Flair. Flair had 1 match.
He is better then HBK but Flair no…. Just my opinion
Shawn Michaels 1997 is the in-ring GOAT.
I actually think his second run was even better. Shawn was just so good
@@BenisBroductions It is close, I just think at that point his persona was a bit too vanilla, there were more over-the-top emotions, facial expressions and selling (I'm not just referring to the Hogan match), a bit too much punching, and he had lost a lot of muscle mass so didn't look as convincing as a threat. I'm really nitpicking here as I love his second run as well.
But 1997 HBK (not his backstage antics, his on-camera persona) was just untouchable in terms of look, swagger, confidence, and in-ring ability. He sold like a million bucks for his opponents, and every move he executed looked so extremely smooth.
You guys are right into the sidekicks and moonsaults eh? Shawn's the best lightweight maybe. For nerds who like wimpy wrestling.
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 Ah yes, nerds and wimps. As opposed to the alpha-male tough guy persona that emanates from your home videos.
@@ronnycrypto8986 I agree with a lot of those points. I just personally think with his better attitude he had better matches. Also a WIDE range of dance partners. But both runs are so good it’s honestly amazing how consistently great Shawn really was
AJ Styles and Shawn Michaels were probably the best overall athletic wrestlers of all time.
Pre ankle injury Brian Pillman was a great athlete and saw him do a standing drop kick on a wrestler was on the top turn buckle. Macho Man, Ricky Steamboat are in that conversation too but Michaels and AJ are top of the heap
I'd say Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart were the best technical wrestlers of all time..
2 Cold Scorpio and RVD
@@pihermoso11 bro Bret Is all hype joor
I’m sorry but this coming from a ruthless aggression kid bred died off in the old days so a lot of people still feel wary about him unlike Shawn who had the opportunity to revient him self see see I even think Chris Jericho is better than Kenny rn , you don’t just teach that kinda experience
@@pihermoso11 Michaels isn't close to been in the conversation of TECHNICAL wrestling with Bret Hart, let alone guys like Angle, Benoit, Dynamite Kid, Malenko etc
Flair is Brando. Shawn and Bret - Pacino & De Niro. Hogan & Machoman - Arnold & Sly. Meanwhile, Kenny Omega - Nicholas Cage.
Nicholas Cage is the man. Kenny Omega is not on his level
@@socialistbatman1211 Hah true
😂😂😂
Come on, we all know Kenny Omega=Harpo Marx.
Olivier
Don't think jake would have that opinion if hadn't been paid well by aew the last few years lol. Michaels in ring psychology alone is well clear of omega!
Super debatable
@@jacemacfie1475 it's really not. The only time Kenny shows any real ring psychology is when he's serious, which is almost never. He's usually too busy doing jazz hands.
@@jacemacfie1475 Not even a debate. Very laughable actually.
Funny to me neither of them have ring psychology. Both clowns.
It’s hard to compare eras. Shawn Michaels is the goat.
Shawn Michaels is a lightweight and his matches are dull.
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234hahaha
@@dustinwallace I think it's funny they let a shrimp like Shawn fight in the heavyweight category. He always looked like ic or tag tier to me. Like most guys who do moonsaults and sidekicks.
Fuck no he ain't, but that was a solid fucken answer from Ric
Kenny is a good athlete with 0 fundamentals. Flair is the master of fundamentals and HBK is what Omega and The Bucks wish they were. He was the complete package. He had it all. Jake is just being a company man.
EDIT: This is coming from a Bret Hart mark btw
Shawn was never the complete package. He could never pull off looking like a heavyweight contender. He was a lightweight who used wussy moonsaults for nerds like you to mark out over. Shawn's ring psychology almost non existent.
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 yeah I'll take the word of some retarded, bitter mark on youtube over flair, stone cold & Bret 😂 your opinion has 0 value go cry some more. Everything you just said was erroneous & opinionated
I got dumber reading what you wrote & have a hard time believing you've ever watched Rock n Roll Express Matches or Bret vs Shawn or Taker vs Shawn bc you sound ignorant AF rn. Nonexistent in-ring psychology? Only high spots? Did you watch the fucking Flair match? Just stop. You clearly have a vendetta against Michaels. It's sad to see bitter marks pathetically attempt to tear down the greats
He could work, sell, cut a promo & look like a top-level star doing it. Most stars today can't even do two of those things. Never heard anyone speak on Shawn's Work as poorly as you, especially from those who actually worked with him and not some snarky social media know-it-all. But I'm sure you know more, so by all means continue your condescending superiority when you're a wrestling nerd and a mark yourself, dipshit. You're using insider terms just like the smark you are. Go suck off Hogan and the NWO some more. Your takes are ice cold. "Flair killed WCW" lmfao no one agrees with your horrible opinions 😂
Twinkletoes couldn't lace a clown shoe let alone HBKs boot
Found Cornette's ass buddy.
Can you say something without just spewing cornette
@@josiah1218 the guy who wrestled in a thong with the guy shoving fingers up his ass couldn't lace a clown shoe let alone HBKs boot.
Better?
Jim Phrase “Twinkletoes Mic Finger Bang”
Always loved Jake’s work from the past. But he just seems to be saying things just to get a reaction the last few years
1:22 it doesn’t matter how many times someone can bounce on a trampoline and do a backflip. Wrestling is about storytelling, making people believe the story, and being a good character. Flair is being nice! Omega is nadda c compared to Flair heel! Whooo
Omega doesn’t even do flips lol
@@jacemacfie1475 someone's never seen kenny omega in new Japan 😂plus all the silly jazz hands it's silly
That's what Omega is great at. Telling me he doesn't know how to tell a story makes me not what you're not want your recommendation.
I think Jake is saying that because he needs the money lol.
Funny when people equate doing moves as being the best.
Flair was a pro wrestler not a acrobat , omega is an acrobat,
Ballerina
I'd say now days and he's getting older is A.J Styles
Shawn's the ultimate acrobat. Kenny's just paying homage.
Although Kenny does a lot of "cool" moves, Michael's and many others could probably do a lot of that stuff too. It just makes no sense in terms of simulating a real fight.
Shawn Michaels did not go too far and if you watched his regular matches versus his main event matches he does not wrestle the same at all... similar to AJ Styles has more ability in the ring that Shawn Michaels, but I feel Shawn with his promo skills and so on attached too... Kenny Omega sadly does everything nearly all the time, outside of his One Winged Angel everything else he does seems bland to me, cause of how he over does it...
How is an elbow from the top rope "simulating a real fight?
@@aoisora1445 NOBODY HAS THE ABILITY THAT SHAWN HAS…. Stfu
@@nadeemg1831 that’s what’s so hilarious about especially old head wrestling fans. They hate the Bucks & Omega especially as well as other wrestling for “exposing the business” and not making their matches look “real” when literally no match in the history of wrestling ever looked like a real fight. No real fight would have suplexes, piledrivers, clotheslines, elbow drops, etc. Real fights last a few minutes maximum. Ricky Morton even referenced how Bucks matches look similar to Midnight Express vs Rock N Roll Express matches.
@@playboy_x dude off course wrestling ain't gonna ever resemble a straight fight, but everything these Indy bros do today is so over the top lunacy, it's an insult to your intelligence as a viewer
Goddamn Omega vs Shawn Michaels would’ve been an incredible match tho
Only if Shawn put it together. If beta did it’d be spot after spot with no rhyme or reason. Like all of his garbage.
Shawn Michaels in the 2000’s would of been something epic!
Ric you are the man dont you ever forget that
Kenny is a good acrobat and video game wrestler if that's what you're into
Sounds pretty cool to me.
Kenny is obviously very good don't get me wrong but it's pretty clear to me Jake only said that crap because he's currently employed by aew so he's trying to be a homer for them.
Jake isn't currently with AEW. (As far as I know)
@@davidgraham8299 you should listen to his podcast. Guess he is lying then because that's what he says. I don't watch aew or keep up with it, but I have listened to every episode of jakes podcast
Kenny is excellent and he is certainly in the top 5 in regards to modern wrestlers but I'd say Samoa Joe is up there as well and Jacob Fatu on his own is better than The Bloodline combined.
THAT DSNT PROVE SHIT!!! Jake could’ve put over anybody in AEW. He didn’t put over Mox Jericho.. he didn’t say Lance archer is better than bruiser Brody. He didn’t say Adam. Page is better than Bob Orton. He he compared to Kenny to the greatest worker of all time. Don’t sit there and pretend that you know what motivates Jake Roberts. You could be right… but you can’t talk about it with any certainty.. and you are🤡
@@JaxTheGat sorry your feelings are hurt, but unfortunately logic doesn't work that way... everybody knows that the common narrative from aew fanboys is that Kenny Oliviay is the greatest wrestler of all time. Not bob Orton or the others you mentioned. Wow you just embarrassed yourself pretty badly... I'd delete that comment before anyone else can see it.
It isn't even close. Kenny may have put together better choreography, but he is not a better performer. Selling alone and HBK is in the conversation with like 4 other people and none of them are even wrestling anymore.
Kenny could only wish to be as good as HBK was
Are you freaking kidding me
@@mikem.7921 No I genuinely mean that Kenny is ok at best but he's no where near the level of Shawn when he was in his physical prime
@@jordanfrost25 I completely disagree
@@mikem.7921 Are you freaking kidding me
@@mikem.7921 wrestling is about making sense not abt spammy video game moves
No way, Shawn was the best at athletic wrestling.
He could do technical, high flying, traditional.
Dude can do it all.
We ALL can agree that Texas has produced some of the all time greats!
You mean Shawn was the best at making wrestling look unbelievable like a ballet rather than an actual fight.
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 😂 damn...so than, what are you thoughts on Ziggler?
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 to a point yeah I do agree with that.
But then at the same time, look at his street fights with Edge, or non sanctioned with HHH at summerslam.
Yeah he’s style was kinda like a ballet, but that was his style?
That’s one reason why he stood out, not a lot of guys now have their legit own style.
Kenny is more of a story teller in his matches but only if you watched it from the begining
Lol all he and 90 percent of guys in AEW do is run around as fast and they possibly can and do flips that's the exact opposite of telling a story it's just a spotfest 24/7 that doesn't make a great wrestler Omega will never be better than Shawn Michaels
Why’d they cut it off when he was about to dig into Don a little more 😂😂
Kenny is genuinely amazing when he wants to be. He just does too much stupid and unnecessary shit.
This.
Who would even ask that question? HBK is one of the 5 best of all time and Omega doesn’t even sniff that.
Jake the Snake made the statement.
@@patrickswasey5301 'noted piss drinker Jake Roberts'
2003-05 Kurt Angle greatest of all time.
Finally someone making sense!
You can't be that stupid.
Stay off the drugs
Up there for sure miles ahead of omega
Perc Angle baby
Where’s Corny?
Kenny v prime 1996-2005 HBK would have been the greatest match of all time. As much as I love Omega, he's no HBK. HBK is on another level of greatness.
NOBODY is better than shawn michaels
At posing for playgirl
I can’t remember one good omega promo or moments ,he just had 5 star matches but I can’t say if he won or lost
I think moveset wise, pace and athletic ability. You gotta give it to Kenny Omega. As far as selling, story telling, acting and the ability to get investment from the fans it’s Shawn Michaels.
If I am correct Omega received a 7 star rating in one of his wrestling matches. I dont know if anyone else received 7 stars.
Kenny is more athletic but Shawn was the better worker. His matches made sense, he did his "high spots" at the right time and he can have a match with anybody and adapt to their style. He can have a technical match with Bret and Kurt and shelton he brawl with mankind and stone cold or cena he can have a high flying match with The kid or Mysterio or y2j or have big man vs little man with diesel, sid or undertaker
All those guys you said Shawn is the greatest in ring worker
I disagree. Shawn is not a better worker. I've watched many of his matches recently and they don't make sense. Way too many high spots for the sake of a high spot. All these pointless moonsaults into tables so he can lay around groggy for 5 minutes. It gets old fast. And he didn't always have great matches with guys. His Vader match was crap. His Sid matches were unwatchable. His Wrestlemania match with Diesel was putrid. I could go on.
Lol, Kenny can't even cut a promo.
Surely you’re not trying to say this while you’re some massive AJ Styles mark who can’t be taken seriously the second he speaks with the worst accent in wrestling
With his overly breathy phone sex voice. 🤣🤣🤣
And can't throw a believable punch
So correct, can't punch correctly, can't hit the ropes correctly, never been trained, kisses the bosses ass for an EVP job. No respect for him at all.
@VersaceVyper if you can't respect Omega you have no taste and no clue.
Being a great pro wrestler that's a hard thing to determine. I think there are so many factors. What makes a truly great professional wrestler? Is it drawing ability, of course you would have to factor in that. Is it the ability to work safely, to put on long matches and keep the fans interested? Is it a large moveset? How do you truly determine what a great pro wrestler is? Ric Flair just said Jake Roberts was a great wrestler and he was but Jake Roberts basically snapped jabs, wrenched his opponents arm, did a short clothesline and set up for the ddt, and he kept the fans interested in his matches. Then you have guys like Lance Storm or Dean Malenko who never had to do the same move twice in any of their matches but they never really became household names so what does that say about being a great wrestler?
You need to be relatable, hatable but above else some sort of personality or charisma. Malenko may have been the best actual wrestler but that only gets you so far.
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 yup I agree with you.
Omega vs ECW 1998 RVD would be a crazy match.
RVD probably would have told him to pick a hand.
Me personally I think Jake was smoking crack and drinking too much when he said that lol 🤣 it may be time to go back to rehab when you start having hallucinations.
i wanna see kenny do it in the big leagues in WWE headline WrestleMania then we can talk even if u only do wwe for 4 years ...then we can talk
i dont think kenny can out draw what HBK did thats for sure but ratings and "draw" were different back in the 90s
tho IDK if HBK ever did a stint in japan at the time that would of been cool
He's already at the ass end of his career and he isn't even 40 yet. And it's largely because of all the dumb and unnecessary spots he's done.
But don't get me wrong.
He's only worth a shit when he decides to be serious which is almost never.
All Kenny would have to do is main event in the Tokyo Dome once to outdraw 1990s Shawn. Shawn had trouble drawing 10,000 to the building. Because he was a lightweight being pushed as a serious heavyweight.
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 oh, I see. You're one of those mud show fans that whacks it to the trampoline cowboys. 🤣🤣🤣
Is this Brandon Cutlet's burner account? 🤔
Ok let’s put it this way Kenny is on there level but it is a different era now but I do agree with ric on Shawn Michaels if Shawn was in this era he’d be the best now but Kenny is the goat of this era hands down as well as danielson and AJ
Kenny is decent at best, and that's only when he wants to be serious.
In reality the wrestlers decided over all how is the best. Us fans have our opinions but them guys get in there a wrestle and see things and hear things we don't. No arguments if people say austin Shawn aj Kenny hhh flair undertaker... There's so many out there to be considered the best! We are lucky as fans
No. Don’t try to squeeze in Kenny Beta with those legends. NOBODY outside of wrestling knows who the Hell that is.
@@liquidgeorge you do realise we all can read all your comments complaining and crying non stop over and over again with absolutely nothing positive to say! 😂 😂 There's a word for people like you the wrestlers use... 🤔 Mark isn't it! Haha 💀 or a f@t cheeto finger mf who hates the world because he hates himself and pretends he knows it all and complains and wines like a little pu$$¥ because he has nothing better to do!! lol 😭🤣
Kenny mic finger bang ?not even close
Gotta love the Nature Boy keeping it classy, and not adding any unnecessary fuel. On the real tho.......Kenny isn't on his or HBK's level. Flair vs Steamboat..classic. HBK vs Taker and HBK vs Angle...... classics. Not to mention both Legends are great on the mat and the stick. This isn't shade at Kenny, but facts are facts.
Jake Roberts is definitely on the sauce again. All due respect to Omega, but he's got a long way to go before he reaches HBK and Flair level.
Omega in Japan is stuff of LEGENDS!
If a 30 year old plus Shawn Michaels still wrestled at 2010s and working with NJPW, he would have a slew of 5, 6, 7, 8 hell 10 star matches. He could even beat Misawa for the most number of 5-star matches.
In your wet dreams maybe
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 @The Gough and Borden Family stupid. you would think shawn will not pull it off? shawn will have been beaten omega in 5-star matches if he went to NJPW in 2010s on his 30s.
Ricky Steamboat, and flair are majic in the ring
Top 5 All Time: Ric Flair..HBK..Stone Cold..The Rock..Undertaker
Your list would be more accurate if it went Savage Hogan Flair Bret Austin
Jake wants to keep getting a AEW paycheck lol
Lol the comments 😂🍿
This can't be a serious question surely
Flair is a legend he may not of jumped from one side of ring to the other but he had it were it counts. You could love or hate his character. He makes it feel real Always a Flair fan.
I agree with Ric here. Kenny is a better in ring wrestler than Ric was, more athletic, etc. But he’s not better than Shawn Michaels.
That's the dumbest thing I've heard.. Kenny is a ballerina per Cornette
@@johnsorto6737 As Ric said, though, he didn't really have a great repertoire of moves. It was his toughness of being able to do hour long matches 5 or 6 nights a week, and his character work, promos, etc. that make Ric one of the greatest, more than his actual wrestling skill.
He's not better in the ring than flair. It's a different era.
@@marcatkinson4149 That's the wrestling skill. Skill is not doing a bunch of overly choreographed spots. It's about telling a story in the ring to get you over and the guy over.
I’m talking strictly from an athletic performance, Kenny is more athletic than Flair ever was. Flair said so himself. I don’t think Kenny is better than Michaels. I don’t think Kenny is better than Steamboat or Savage or RVD honestly. I’ve seen Styles have amazing matches, can’t say the same for Kenny. But that’s just my taste
Did jake roberts went back to his drinking ways?? Cuz theres no fn way
Jake wants that AEW pay check
Is Jake drinking again? Kenny Omega is a jobber compared to Shawn Michaels. Most people don’t even know who Kenny is.
Kenny is GOAT
Lol
Jake ain’t wrong. Doesn’t take anything away from either of the other two
Kenny will never be the draw Flair was. Everyone knows who Flair is. Only a very small group know who Kenny is.
HBK is the GOAT for sure. Almost every big name wrestler has said HBK is the best including guys like The Undertaker, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Booker T, Jeff Jarrett, John Cena, Vince McMahon, the entire Kliq etc. Nobody is even close to him in his body of work of 5 star matches and Match of the Years either.
Funny how you left out brett hart.
@@briangoodie3420 . I think Brett hart is the better wrestler, but Shawn is a better entertainer, I think they are fairly equal and they actually made each other better. Omega doesn’t even crack the top 20.
@@briangoodie3420 Bret mentioned HBK as one of the best. All those guys I mentioned are guys that have said HBK is THE best. That's why I said "Almost" every big name wrestler that said HBK was the best.
Vader put Shawn above of freaking Misawa.
Every big name wrestler like Jeff Jarrett Booker T Papa Shango Steve Lombardi...Plus the Kliq, Shawn's parents and wife and children say it. Lol
Shawn's an acrobat. Bret Hart is far superior.
Could Omega keep schedule like a prime Flair? Traveling every day to a different territory carrying and making the local hero look great. Doing 4 one hour broadways a week and a total of 9 -11 matches a week.
Omega is the best high spot wrestler ever. Omega only wrestles at best once a week. When he goes to Japan he has days to rest from jet lag. Flair would wrestle in Kansas City for example and that night and early day fly to Japan get off the plane and drive straight to the arena and wrestle for an hour no rest like todays workers. If you need someone to put on 30 good matches in a month with 15-20 different guys who half were bad workers all over the country Flair is the best ever vs Omega having 4 great matches with rest vs great elite workers is the best ever.
Flair used to double shots in the same day in different states he would work an afternoon show in the Carolinas and fly to Tampa to close the show. Nobody did this like Flair.
The way omega wrestles he wouldn’t be able to he’d change that style quick ,nobody got that weak Ass schedule back in the 80s shut the 70s he’s be cannon fodder
Were they Broadways though? Or just self indulgent time wasters? Tons of wrestlers back then worked hour long main events. It was commonplace.
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 they were not common place.
Woooooooooooooooo 2:16
Kenny The Goat Omega!!!!!!
Shawn Michaels had an outstanding over 25 year career...we will see if Kenny would one day be better. What we know is that Shawn stood in the Ring with most of the greatest ever...Hogan, Flair, Bret, Undertaker, Austin, Triple H, Kurt Angle, Nash, Hall, Mick Foley, Jeff Jarrett, Rick Martel, Tatanka, Marty Jannetty, Hacksaw, Nasty Boys, Demolition, Jericho, Cena, Backlund, Owen Hart, British Bulldog, Vader and so on...that's something Kenny Omega will never do
Don't forget Shawn stood in the ring with Dolph Ziggler and Akeem the African dream..
You're not a great wrestler if you're awful at selling or don't sell at all. Shawn sure knew how to. When he wasn't being overly silly with it (several times in big matches no less). Omega? Now that's funny.
Goes to show the harm that years of drug abuse can do. Jake suggesting that little twat could even lace Shawn’s boots is insane.
Loved Jake back in the day, but this take is hysterical.
Problem with Omega who has he made great like Ric did guys every night for 35 years. Flair made Sting and Luger superstars.
Exactly, he never made anyone or got anyone over.
Sting and Luger made themselves superstars by juicing up. And lookig like action heroes.
Kenny is the GREATEST Trampoline wrestler of ALL-TIME, next to The Young Bucks.
'Meltzer says I'm in the key demo...'
Shawn would tell him to slow down. And. Make it mean more
It's all subjective but Shawn Michaels never did it for me. Love Styles, Steamboat, Sting, and Macho but Michaels never entertained me.
Clearly something is wrong with you
@@4079907 Why? Because he's not into g ay ballerina moonsaults and wimpy side kicks?
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 it’s funny…. All those guys you named would tell you Michaels is the best 😂😂😂
This is a really tough comparison and it’s close. I honestly think that Kenny is more talented/can do more in different styles of wrestling but HBK’s in-ring awareness and psychology are GOAT’d. Kenny in all good reality is probably the greatest pro wrestler of his era contrary to what a certain man with a Wendy’s podcast and his onion ring minions whine about.
Objectively I think it’s one of those opinionated things where there’s not a wrong answer here one way to another. Shawn and Kenny are obviously Rushmore level talents.
Like Ric said we have to respect Jake's opinion since he's one of the all time greats, but I'm sure Jake would see things differently if he would have had the chance to wrestle Ric and Shawn several times. Sadly, he never was booked in big 1 on 1 matches with them.
Or the other way around as Jake could snap the two of them in half during his prime.
Jake wants a promotion
Comparing Kenny to Shawn is like comparing garbage water to evian water
Well the in ring psychology, the facial doesn't seem to count according to Jake.
I mean are you kidding me just beacause Kenny can do some good stuff that doesn't mean they compare him with Shawn Michaels
hbk would of had a great match with andre?
HBK is the in ring goat.
I wish I could ask Flair about Terry Funk. IMO Funk was one of the best bad guys
Funk is the GOAT, in my eyes.
@@adeltoral IMO he kind of intimidated Ric. I had the picture where he pile drives ric on that table
@@adeltoral what I can remember funk work out of the southern region mainly
@@mariuswilliams1527 I mean, he and Dory started in Texas, but he’s worked everywhere. He spent a lot of time in Japan (stints in All Japan, the International Wrestling Association of Japan and Frontier Martial-Arts Wrestling) and Puerto Rico (he’s been stabbed there twice), he did some time in Memphis (his famous Empty Arena match vs. Lawler took place there) and Florida (where he worked with Dusty quite a bit), and of course during his ECW days, he spent a lot of time in Philly.
As for your other question, I’ve heard Flair talk about Funk before. He called him the greatest. Funk, on the other hand, a little less flattering about Flair - in his autobiography, “More Than Just Hardcore,” Funk called Flair a kiss-ass and a snitch, so I believe the love goes just one way there, though the respect of ring skills I’m sure is mutual.
@@adeltoral appreciate the history lesson I will be sure to pass this info to my older bro who is a huge wrestling fan
Bret Hart is the greatest pro wrestler in history
Is Jake bucking for a raise or something?
No way Kenny is on level of HBK Kenny is better than Kenny dykstra maybe .
Twinkletoes!!!!!?????? In the same sentence as HBK?
Before AEW came around Kenny was on his way to getting into that GOAT conversation. I'd say while he was doing his trilogy with Okada he was far and away the best wrestler on the planet and it wasn't close. From the time AJ Styles left Japan to the time Kenny left Japan he was undeniable. Then since AEW he hasn't really been the same.
Cena vs styles > Pedo vs China
Nah, he's been over hyped for years. Now he's been exposed. Too funny. 🤣
@@joolsmacgrools1288 overhyped? Exposed? What the hell are you talking about? 🤣
A shame to see Jake the snake show how looney he is by thinking Omega is up there like that. Flair doesn’t have a problem with it, but plenty of people here to say it for him
Jake really hates a few guys and lets that cloud his opinion.
Kenny's a gymnast. Nothing else!!
Stop, just stop. Omega couldn't hold HBK'S jock. Jake Roberts must be back on the drugs if he thinks Omega is better than HBK.
He getting paid bye AEW maybe
Jake has to be back on drugs to say something like this.
I'm going to go with no but imagine how great Kenny would be if he was simply under one week of Shawn Michael's tutelage it would go leaps and bounds. Don't believe me? Triple H, Daniel Bryan, Johnny Gargano, even fucking Logan Paul are prime examples of what HBK can teach you.
Don't forget Dolph Ziggler and Sunny.