How good are Plumed Archers? (AoE2)
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- čas přidán 12. 02. 2024
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0:55 Crossbow vs Plumed archer
3:04 Upgrades
3:45 Castle age tests
8:40 Elite Plumed Archer
9:45 Imperial age tests
13:35 Final thoughts
13:55 Sponsor
___________________________________________________________
Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition - Hry
“You see, warrior. We fletch arrows with feathers to make them faster, so we wear hat made of feathers to make us faster.”
This is some ork logic if i ever heard it
@@tomassmith2088 Don't forget to only use read feathers. Never purple.
@@desercitus Read feathers? Where do you get those?
Why, from library trees of course.
@@tomassmith2088 Beat me to it
1:32 Pecs and Abs = +1 pierce armor is the SOTL math content I'm here for
Agreed 😂
Pecs give +1 pierce armor, abs give you 15+HP
Plummed archers.
Plumber archers
In the meaning of "feathered" the word is "plumed", and "plummed" means something else.
6 years old me always used to call them like that
How many plums did the eat?
It’s a pretty sweet unit, although some are still kind of sour on it
“Never discount them on account of their discount.” Lol
Always account for their discount
This video made me remember _Obsidian Arrows._
You guys recall how sick that tech was?
That was crazy. I remember a nations cup where MbL and Viper were up against somebody on Arena, and MbL just melted their bases with Mayan arbs. That was funny, but also one of the reasons we don't have the tech in the game anymore.
@@light_david7 Yeah, it was fun to use it, for sure. But it spoiled games, becaue all you needed to totally annihilate an opponent's base were those cheap archers.
@@light_david7 Yea one was Mayan, other one was Saracen to combine bonus building bonuses and against them was I think Drackon and someone? Not sure, but yea it was thing of beauty.
@@light_david7 minor difference, but it was MBL who was slinging, and Viper who was doing the bulldozing
the fact they run fast without riding a horse makes them really strong, they don't have to worry for units with bonus against cavalry archers and, they have good pierce armor, overall a strong unique unit, even if they hit less harder that Arbalesters
3:27 - small correction, it will be elite ratha instead of elite chakram thrower.
Thank goodness too. A unit that pieces enemies that doesn’t cost Gold? Dear lord.
@@Davtwanonly the upgrade vost no gold.
Never thought an SOTL video would inspire me to go the gym for pecs and abs. Gotta get that pierce armor!!
Age of empire 2 offers so much that watching your videos for almost 6 years and still coming new videos regularly.
Man, I remembere when I was really young and played The Conquerors (had just released, I had the CD, manual and all the good stuff). I used to make units based on how cool hey looked, and have all civ matchups somewhat historically based. So the Mayans could only fight the Aztecs or the Spanish. I would always play as Jaguar Warriors or Conquistadores because to me the Plummed Archers looked exactly the same as a extravagant Carnival parade costume lol
Ah, yes, the horseless Mangudai
Not even close.
Yeah, Mangudai are more expensive.
- 1 less damage than archer line equivalent
- No extra damage against siege
+ 2 extra damage against infantry
Maybe horseless cav archer.
Love the fast running 💨
They are very important in team games with hand cannoneers and bombards. Because you can run in and take out what you need to in order for your eagles to do the damage needed.
If abs make a unit tankier then Teutonic Knights have a 24pack abs under their capes.
The armor and cape isn't to protect them, it's to protect other people from the sight of them.
New Mayan civ overview inbound!
Keep the videos coming! It's a Spirit Of The Law feast this month!
So the Mayan video is coming?
That’s how it usually goes, yes
@@tominis4444 Imagine researching all those numbers and only getting one video out of it.
I got a Robin Hood ad in the middle of this vid which is funny given this is a vid about great archers
We need an Emperor's New Groove style of Robin Hood animated movie. Robbing from the rich Aztec lords and giving it to the poor.
15 min sotl videos on plumes, gets ready in anticipation
Appreciating the extra jokes thrown in. This seems a more recent SOTL addition with the odd joke thrown in with all the math and comparison. Works well :)
I'm at 0:54 and the puns and jokes are killing me, I love it.
Now I'm curious about the Vietnamese unique units.
There were so many surprises in this video!
Plumed Archers + 100HP EEW + Halb spam, was the nightmare of childhood me who mained the Mongols/Saracens.
Oangers with Mongol unique unit would own that tho
@@kalle1689 Not really EEW can snipe the onager and the Archers will tear the Mangudai apart.
Another awesome video! This one for one of my favourite teams / units. I think I might go down the crossbow line more often now instead of Plumes.
An interesting comparison would be Mayan crossbow line vs Ethiopians crossbow line. They're surely the best two versions of that unit in the game and wondering how they would compare, measured similar to this video. I hope you can make a video, thanks :)
Oh for...
They end with costing 39/39, do they? God, that number is determined to follow me.
YAY, new video just in time for my lunch
Bon apetit
I generally like mixing them a bit so they trip over each other less to shoot targets. Archers having different ranges tend to attack move really well together.
1:34 It could be argued that the reason why the plumed archer has higher armor than the crossbowman, despite the latter wearing a breastplate, is thanks to the Ichcahuipilli, a gambeson-like jacket made of interwoven layers of dense cotton over an inch thick. The fabric armor was capable of absorbing the impact energy of even bullets and some Conquistadors would even discard their own plate armor in favor of the Ichcahuipilli, as it was easier to maintain and wear in the hot, humid environment. That said, the armor is more associated with the Aztec.
Plumed role was always pop efficiency and mobility/ survivability. In a late game scenario, between having 40 plumes or 40 arbalests, being able to keep your mass healthier for longer and replace units less often is a big advantage when delaying trash wars, and that's easier with plumes - Xbow just help you get to that late game. Pair that with Mayans longer lasting resources and you really put opponents on a timer if you just keep your plumes alive.
And eldorado eagles
I would say that the cost nerfs made them significantly more situational especially vs a civ that might field heavy cav, let alone paladins.
@@zachariastsampasidis8880 definitely, stats wise they were always the same but the original price made it so it was worth it to FC into a castle and straight into Plumes, so it was a deserved nerf I'd say
First of I wanted to say, I love the videos man! Keep up the work! But I do have a note. And I would love to see it being explored a little. Maybe you already have, and I don't know. But I would love to see your point of view on this.
In the video you make a comparison between a Plumed Archer and a Paladin. And you check them up with equal resources. But isn't it a bit unfair? If you calculate the numbers you have to spend 890 more food and 3265 more gold (To get them fully upgraded). It is even higher if you take into account husbandry (1040 more food).
I don't know how much resources an avarage player spends in a game, but that seems quite a bit. You can make a lot of Plumed Archers with those resources. I think it is something to think about. I know it is just to see how well they fair against each other if you both spend the same on just the cost to make them (not included upgrades).
But I would love to know how much impact it actually makes on the total amount of resources spend in a game. Because it then does kinda matter I like to think. Idk maybe I am just rambling but I would love to hear your take on it!
Cheers!
You missed one extremely important part of plumed archer: best running animation in the game
Man i miss obsidian arrows!
Yeah, that technology was broken af, though insanely fun to use.
Hear me out, but what if you could get the same tech at a 3rd of it's strength for FREE?
Oh, and it's a team bonus. That's 10x better imo.
@@franciasii2435 i mean, its not bad. obsidian arrows was just different, production buildings getting deleted by groups of plummed was different
Obsidian (glass) arrows dealing more damage against sturdy, hard buildings never made sense. However, destroying buildings with arrows has a certain vibe that I can appreciate. Since Chemistry ignites all arrows and is a late game tech, it'd be cool if it gave Archers a damage bonus vs. non-Stone buildings.
If water is an option, watching massed Longboat volleys delete buildings is very satisfying.
I can't speak to their quality but the extra speed makes them feel easier to play. Unless they're not actually faster, and this is just a placebo effect because they look like they're running.
No, they are really fast. If i'm not mistaken plumed archers are as fast as woad raiders without squires. (1,2 tiles/sec) That's pretty crazy. 😅
I dont get it, why does the Infantry bonus dmg not work on Huskarls in Castle? Isnt bonus damage supposed to be added after armor calculations? so no matter how low the dmg the bonus dmg should always bump it +1 or not?
The 1 damage crossbows do to huskarls is due to the minimun damage mechanic, they would otherwise do 0 damage. Plumed archers on the other hand already do 1 damage thanks to their bonus against infantry, so the minimun damage doesnt apply.
@@TurboDiego37 ye but thats what I mean. Min Dmg is ALWAYS 1. So if a unit has +1 bonus dmg it should always do 2 dmg no?
The minimum damage rule is the very least step in damage calculation. Simply said if the result of the damage calculation is 0 it will change it to 1. But only then. If the result of the damage calculation is higher than 0, then the rule doesn't come into play. This means if the result of the damage calculation is 1, as with plumes against huskarl because of the attack bonus of 1 against infantry, the actual damage stays at 1.
They are tremendously satisfying to shoot and scoot around the map with on 4v4 Nomad
Dropped a like as soon as you said "swole physique". Legend.
3:25 that's a mistake. the other 2 are Kipchak and Ratha. If we count non-castle UU as well there's Genitour
He said "for years was unique"... for years meaning mayans were added to the game in 2000 and Kipchaks were added in 2019... so they were unique for 19 years...
@@GioTMIP you're missing the point
Keep 'em coming SotL
Have you ever thought about doing a video on which civ benefits the most from playing with the Full Tech Tree option turned on? My gut says the Byzantines but I'm curious who would have their weaknesses covered up the most from regaining armor upgrades or their strengths magnified from getting things like thumb ring
Good Video. I'm allways considerated Plumed Archers as a mesoamerican version of Cav. Archer, since they cant use mounted units and due to similar stats as both are faster and tankier, but more expensive and with less range and damage. And I believe they had a wood+food upgrade and archer discount as they already use much gold on producing eagle warriors so they dont get unbalanced on making their army.
Also their strategie of Archers+El Dorado Eagle Warriors are very similar to using light Cav+ ounted archers.
New video! Yay!
I had a dream… partian tactics tech would basically allow horse archers to attack while moving . 🙌🏻
Like at stronghold crusader
@@cano3391 yeah! They were dope in stronghold crusader🙌🏻
I swore it happened to me in the 2nd Attila mission cause of a glitch but people have said it was impossible
Isnt that the real history? Parthians had pro horseriders that could fire while riding on horsebqck?
The attack while moving is also a thing for AoE4's mangundai but sadly afaik despite of that it's a pretty weak unit the last time I checked
Plumes are my favourite unit by far. Love having a video just for them. I definitely go big into my plumes for gold and then back them up with all the halbs and skirms that I can afford so I keep my gold for unique times for eagles for onagers+ or trebs. The rest usually is an army that is good trash units for me
Love your videos
Love the channel bro. Just discovered this game on xbox recently and your channel is perfect for beginners
Welcome to the Fandom! 🎉
I would always go for the normal unit in earlier ages, but in later ages they are a good alternative if you can mass them just like with Vietnamese. They are much faster and a bit tankier for just some extra wood cost.
the pierce armor is they bob and weave with that bonus speed they have
Nice Mayan archer line video but what about their castle unit?
i think v-sauce used that kind of jazzy background music as well,to give his videos some more credebility....
btw , is that general midi open ttd music at the end ??
It occurred to me that since Plummed Archers are fast units, they would pair well with Eagle Warriors and allow your army to out-run or catch up with many other enemies. In addition, Eagle Warriors and Plummed Archers compliment each other very well. Eagle Warriors have bonuses against siege, monks, and knights. Meanwhile, Plumed Archers do well against most infantry.
After comparing Mayan PA vs. generic archers (xbow/arbs), you then compare PA vs Mayan discounted xbows/arbs (at 4:35 and 10:08 respectively), which gives you a relevant metric for a Mayan war match-up.
However, I think a more important test would to see how Mayan discounted archers do against generic archers with equal resources. This would allow you to compare whether the PA or the Mayan discounted archers qre better against generic archers with equal resources.
If they ever add the Purépecha/Tarascan empire, they'll need to switch the Plumed Archers and crossbow techs to them and give the Mayan skirmishers replacements.
Alright, alright, I'll use arbs more when I play Mayans.
Still like the plumes being able to keep up with my eagles, they cover a lot of each others weaknesses!
Hellhello spirit of the law, can you answer how fair all resources are? Which is the best resource to aim and how to calculate where you out your units early. How useful and efficient is food compared to food for example
Which in your opinion does better against hand cannons? Being the other big counter to eagles and halbs
Idea for next video - abs and pecs situation in AoE2 in 2024
0:41 Oh! So someone actually went and made the mod! As an old subscriber to the channel, I have a question to ask. Did you gift your cat (signed by you) to the modder?
Mayans overview coming up 100%
What are the most population efficient units, broken down into categories like archer, cavalry archer, infantry, etc? In a generalist sense, not against their best matchup
imp age skirms comparison, can you use plumed archers as the meatshield that lets arbalesters outperform them? It's sort of looking to me like you can- assuming you're up against pure skirms at least.
yes
Plumed Archers are probably more so designed to complement Mayan Eagles, hence the Infantry bonus.
Eagles tank for the archers against other ranged units and cavalry and the two units move fast, making them work well together
How are you able to see the line of sight and walking speed in the unit stats??
It's in the options or hotkey. Not a mod. Advanced stats or something.
Can you please make an updated which civ is for you quiz again?
I'm surprised you didn't do more comparison with Calvary archers as you said at the beginning it seems applicable. Amazing video as always
The best thing about Plumed Archers is the way they run.
Maybe this is why my Mayan win rate is so slow I still play them like the AOC days and I should just stuck with xbows. I just love Plumes so much
Everytime i go to shit i open youtube
And when i see your new video i know that i will have a nice time
This is the highlight of my day
They're pluming good
Archer: ....
Mayan Ruler: *Hmmm... not sure, it doesn't look that stro-*
Archer: ...(Lifts a plummed hat up his head)
Mayan Ruler: *!!!!!!!!! GASP!*
The plummed archer mod was requested by you in exchange for your cat. Where's the cat Spirit? Show us the cat pics!
11:45 where does the archer on the left shoot?
"Should never be discounted on account of their discount"
- Had to replay this three times to understand I need subtitles for this.
"should never be discounted on account of their discount" BARS!!!! 🔥
Plums and SotL? We eating this month boiis
I think spamming crossbows/arbs and have a small group of plums to raid or snipe is the best option here, the plums advantages are too specific and situational to justify the cost of making them the bulk of your army.
Yeah, and mangonels are not often a problem for Mayans with how strong their eagle warriors are.
@@drschwandi3687 Exactly, plums can counter mangonels but hte micro-management cost is insane, you shouldn't be fighting siege with archers in the first place
The feathered hat and cloth vest are signs of Loom, which, as we all know, makes human beings tankier. These Loom'd Archers should indeed be tougher than Crossbowmen.
Spirit, could you make a video on how to make pro players using the lesser played civs? Are they that bad?
I never noticed the model has some descent abs.
I've played a match 1v1 Aztecs (me) vs Mayans
I've made a good job of massing eagles at the feudal age and was able to overwhelm the mayan archer mass.
From this point I though the game was over, what the mayan player could do? Match my eagles? Try to remass crossbows against my 3+2 castle age eagle warriors?
However he did the right play, went for plumes and started kiting my eagles. I didn't understood at first how i was losing so many troops but then i realized that plumed archers had +1 against all infantry.
By this time I've lost almost half of my units and couldn't get the momentum back, so i GG'd.
Anyway love for plumes, played them a lot in the conquerors, when the frame delay and the cheap made them really op (one of the few counters to mangudai, btw).
RIP obsidian arrows :(
Walked into the gym.
Trainer: So, what are your fitness goals?
Me: Plumed Archer.
Trainer: I assuming you're ok with steroids?
Back in the Voobly days, the plumed archer's mobility combined with very bad melee pathing and made them incredibly strong versus knights. Microing the archers basically prevented the knights from engaging at all, even worse than today. Sure, the cost nerfs have made the unit less appealing, but the fact that melee pathing works so much better now is what I think really killed the plumed archer. Their mobility became a nice to have, rather than a tactically overwhelming advantage.
oh i missed the plumed archer with old obsidian arrow unique tech, they just DESTROY anything
So, how is the guy who made the Plummed Archer mod treating your cat?
Mayan overview coming in 3 days or so
I was about try out Mayans with their cool and fast archers but when I saw how poorly they do against those unit I was discouraged. I really don't play any Native American tribes, but the best thing is to know how to counter them... Sicilians kind of fun have even better pierce armor with their Imperial Tech. Thank you! Spirit! What's your background in mathematics?
Due to the characteristics of Mesos civilizations, their unique units are poorly located. The Aztec needs the kamayuk (he does not have halberdiers). The Mayan to the Jaguar (He does not have a champion, to counteract a huscarle or eagles). And the Inca take away the Arbalesta (he already has slingers vs infantry) and put the feathered archer on him to play imperial archers if he wants. in my opinion
whats the method of micro using with the plumes for kiting properly?
Run away, hit G (stop) when you clear the enemy troops and keep repeating.
@@jarkkovahamaa7272 Would clicking a specific unit to focus fire not be more effective? Instead of just stopping.
idk i see these archers hit mulptiple targets with this command looks fine to me xD@@drschwandi3687
I haven’t been this early to a video in a long time!
Watching this wife my wife while eating a double cheeseburger and having a coke. Life is good guys.
Should jave done the comparison against teuton palis as well. Teutons slowadins feel bad against them as it doesnt feel like they can catch them at all. Arbs still might be better, but, running after a unit that is almost the same speed as your paladins feels bad
I kind of disagree. When you mass enough PA and then mix whatever meat shield before them they are practically unkillable. And even when enemy gets close shredding the numbers are so slow because they have a lot of HP.
Speaking of space, I'm surprised you don't bring in the difference in collision box, which can help with micro, but also makes them often more vulnerable to mangonels and scorpions.
As far as I know their collision radius is the same. Are you saying the Plumed Archer clumps up more?
@@SpiritOfTheLaw Yes they do. At least from my experience.
@@SpiritOfTheLaw When I test it, through scenario editor, it indeed looks the same, but in practice they are generally "clumped up" (as you say) together... That might actually be the result of their high speed. Maybe their slow range as well.
Does it ring a bell to you? To me, this sounds like a topic. It's not indeed collision radius per se, it's a mixture of different factors. But idk if this makes sense to you. Maybe I just imagined sth in my head... Idk...
@@SpiritOfTheLaw But as an exaple, see how plum archers always get shred by siege in MikeEmpires videos.
Make a video about rattan archers pls
plumes best counter to camel units?
Plot twist: It's not feathers, it is their actual hair.
i don't get something at 7:50 . If the Plumed Archer has a bonus of +1 against infantry, and the Huskarl, although having 6 pierce armor, has 0 infantry armor, why doesn't he take +1 bonus damage? Shouldn't it be a total of 2 damage per shot? Am I missing something?
The minimum damage of 1 only applies when there's less than a combined 1 damage worth of all attack types added together at the very end of the calculation. In this case the Plumed Archer's bonus damage lets it do 1 damage, so the game leaves it at that. The rule is to avoid units doing zero damage per attack, not to make sure that each type of damage does at least 1.
Admittedly, it leads to weird situations like this where a bonus seemingly doesn't do anything.
@@SpiritOfTheLaw Incredible how I still learn things about this game after years of playing. Thank you for all your work!
Mayans weren’t the same for me after they lost obsidian arrows. 😢