This NEW Wind Tunnel Killing Cycling Tech Could Make You A LOT Faster On The Bike!
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- Aero testing for the masses - Could aero sensors be the next cycling tech revolution? In 2024 pro cyclists have started using live-streaming aero sensors to try and make themselves faster on the bike without using a wind tunnel. We've got our hands on an Aerosensor to see whether this cycling tech could be on all the best road bikes in 10 years.
If you want to be faster on the bike then (other than doing some cycling training) it's best to look at cycling aero upgrades like aero wheels or an aero bike. But how do you actually know that these will make your cycling faster? This is where the Aerosensor comes in, it measures your drag as you cycle along.
The full review of the Aerosensor will be live on the road.cc website soon but in the meantime let us know your thoughts on this cycling tech and whether it's the future in the comments below...
⚫️ Other videos that might interest you
11 Bike Fit Tips To Make You FASTER & More Comfortable On The Bike
🎦 • 11 Bike Fit Tips To Ma...
10 Things To Copy Off Tour de France Pros To Make You FASTER & More Comfortable on The Bike
🎦 • 10 Things To Copy Off ...
Cheap Bike vs Superbike - How Much Faster Is An Expensive Road Bike and Equipment?
🎦 • Cheap Bike vs Superbik...
Thinking Of Buying A New Road Bike In 2024? Watch This First!
🎦 • Thinking Of Buying A N...
⚫️ In this video
0:00 Introduction
1:05 Why is aero important?
2:05 What is an aero sensor?
2:47 What's in the box?
3:30 How does it work?
4:40 Does it work?
8:10 Is it the future?
⚫️ Check out our other channels
On the Web
▶️ road.cc
Instagram
▶️ / road.cc
Twitter
▶️ / roadcc
Facebook
▶️ /
Podcast
▶️ road.cc/tags/podcast - Sport
Do you care how aero you are? Let us know below!
Gotta be honest, at that hefty price tag I'd say it's probably best just trying to hire some time in a wind tunnel, if it's that much of an interest. I'm a keen cyclist and adjust position based on drag when I cycle, but at 6ft 7 I'm basically a bloody wall. I do care how aero I am, but not £1k+ care.
Right? I'm fat and old. No sensors will change that.
I do, but not to that extent.
Nope, not at all
👍
Aero is total crap.. if 35mm tires are faster than 26mm.. Aero is total crap??
I don't need any sensors to tell me how useless I am.
Haha we can relate!
Welp...I do, I mean if I don't have the sensors how am I going to find anything that I'm doing right?
😂😂😂😂
Sure but it's nice to quantify it from time to time
@sand9577 nothing to worry, about. You're not!
I'm a retired Aeronautical Engineer. For all of you claiming BS - read on. For a part of my career, I was an aircraft performance engineer, and we used the same approach in evaluating our aircraft's performance. Simply put, you sum up all the drag forces to determine the power needed to overcome those forces. There are many variables, but there are many sources available for fairly accurate data for each of those variables (e.g.: tire rolling resistance, an approximation of CdA with your hands on your hoods or drops, you can even find barometric pressure if you know where to look, to name just a few). The principle is the same, but some of the drag forces differ (airplanes don't have rolling resistance while flying). I also had a PowerPod, and I found it to be helpful, but just like aircraft performance, there are limitations. The device was great in a steady-state condition, but during acceleration/deceleration, the power data became less accurate due to the change in an incremental time period. The PowerPod wasn't able to change the CdA during the ride like this system can, but you could change it afterward with the PowerPod if desired - each system will simply use estimates of CdA, neither can calculate CdA. My conclusion about the PowerPod was that it was very useful for riding in a steady-state condition (ie, for training), and it was much less accurate than a straingauge sensor during non-steady-state conditions. I currently use a left crank arm 4iiii power sensor, and I like the immediate "accurate enough" data (over time, accuracy will drift). Bottom-line: No sensor will make a rider faster, but the data from a power sensor (straingauge or aero sensor) can help with your training. Side note: A couple of pieces of data I liked from the PowerPod that I don't get now were that I could see after my ride how much the wind affected my power (head or tail), and it would tell me when I was drafting off someone.
The mismatching tyre colours are slowing you down 😉
Just you wait, a pro will do it and it’ll catch on!
Now that you have this device on hand, please make it a staple when reviewing aero race bikes. Every single aero race bike review must provide CdA numbers. 😊
Great idea because you can use the previous data and conditions (indoor cycling) to see average watts and speeds. Seems like something that would be repeatable
My CDA is very good. This has been confirmed by riders in my draft.
#science we like it!
Just completed a testing session with my coach, a certified Aero-geek (it‘s a compliment to him) using this exact sensor set up. Very good and consistent results and once we had laid down the base line we could tweak my TT position in order to find gains. Around 10 runs completed with 6 different set ups and an improvement of over 10% in just 2.5hrs work, that‘s a 60 seconds benefit on an average TT course 💪. Really amazing to see the dynamic data from the sensor and then the results of each run and finally what turned out to be the most optimised and yet sustainable position. I‘ll happily take a 1 min advantage any day, it‘s a bit like asking a TT rider or Triathlete if they prefer to use a rear disc wheel or not😉
Chapeau to Aerosensor for making this accessible to the serious amateur cyclist as most of us will only dream of even seeing a wind tunnel let alone being able to use one. We’ll done guys👋 and also my coach at Summit Cycle Coaching for taking the early plunge on this.
I shall wear a giant shark fin on my back
I can see a future where we can all buy a simpler $50 ANT+ wind sensor paired to newer head units that do all the complicated math/calcs. I'm expecting this is simply a pitot tube paired to a very accurate pressure transducer, components very common in the HVAC and aviation industries. The body position is a cool feature and probably most useful for post ride analysis, but in theory I doubt that it's required to calculate the instantaneous CdA number. This old fart will be waiting for the prices to come down quite a bit, but for
Shouldn’t it be possible to calculate the cda when you know how many Watts your bike mechanically needs?
Yeah, provided you also have good information on the rolling resistance. I’m sure it can be helpful for relative measurements without this info.
I can see how this will be helpful when doing the weekly shop, on my old Ridgeback, to find the most aero way to pack my 2 Ortlieb pannier bags.
We reckon a backpack on the front might be the way to go ;)
@@roadcc oh yes, the aero belly method! 😅
@@a1whiteTear shaped = aero 😂
This is where I will definitely draw my personal line in the sand. No more metrics for me...
Power and HR will suffice.
Well, I think the resistance of the bearings in the hub is also slowing you down.
I won’t be buying one but I’d be curious to know the CdA of a 60 year old on a Brompton. It’s going to be a little more that 0.27, that’s for sure!
Whoe needs it? 90% of aero efficiency is determined by rider position, easily measured by the speedometer.
If you are willing to invest the time one of these sensors is a way better investment than lots of other bike gadgets people spend money on.
lol
The worthiness of this piece of equipment purely depend on how much it costs. Because CdA is dependent on the frontal area of the rider, and there is no way to measure an individual's frontal area without imaging equipment shooting from the 3rd person frontal view. Consequently, the CdA reported by the device will actually be a product of CdA* unknown frontal area instead of the true CdA. But if this has the cost of a HR monitor, it wouldn't hurt to have one extra stats on display; otherwise, a speed sensor combined with power output will give a much more meaningful figure :)
Your actual CDA isn't important. Your ability to measure the differences between positions and equipment is. With my local wind tunnel closing, I'm definitely getting one of these if the bugs are tolerable in the first couple months
@@veganpotterthevegan Again, way too many factors can affect your reading. Since CdA of a cyclist is extremely difficult to quantify in non-lab enviroments as it depend on form drag, skin friction drag, wave drag and induced drag etc. Perhaps something simple like a live kmh/W will give you a better idea on how you're doing position-wise.
@yifanyao2107 all that stuff is taken into account for your personal improvements. Instant speed means little in itself due to the variations in wind. That would work in a velodrome with doing laps(holding a steady wattage) on the same day though. Of course, a magnetic speed sensor will already do that.
@@veganpotterthevegan CdA depend on the inverse of the square of freestream velocity, if you travel slow, CdA will increase. This alone will confuse a layman if they dont know the equation of CdA calculation...
@yifanyao2107 I'm quite certain that's why someone would buy this. It does that math for you while calculating every variable possible(with where the tech is now)
Like the talking and walking towards camera intro. My CDA is XL
Haha felt like a movie star but the cameraman enjoyed it a lot less 😂
I will never do this. That is, until everybody else around me starts using CdA sensors, lactate meters, breathing rate sensors, oxymeters, continuous glucose monitors and butt plug thermometers. Then I will do the same because I won't like feeling left out.
Velocomp’s aeropod has beed out for much longer. Though the body position sensor is a nice touch.
That bike color is badass. The SL7 was prettier than the SL8. Be cool to get the Rapide Cockpit on that bike and I think you're more aero than the SL8
Agreed, it’s on the list of upgrades!
@@roadcc I had to set an email alert to get the one I wanted. Hard to find a 38mm!
It definitely won't be more aero. The UCI rule changes for tube shapes gave engineers easy, free speed. The SL9 will likely barely be any better.
@@veganpotterthevegan Specialized already said that the SL7 and SL8 were the same amount of aero CDA and the Rapide one piece cockpit is the only thing pushing it ahead.
You're right that the top tube being deeper adds aero and that's where the speed sniffer comes into play, but the SL8 took a lot of carbon out of the seat post, chain stay and seat stay that reduced it. So net, net, the SL8 frame itself is the same aero, but lighter.
So if he takes is SL7 + the Rapide cockpit, it will be more aero.
@jwfriar they never said that. They said that the bar is a huge portion of the gains which is understandable. Throw the fork from the SL8 on(if things lined up well) and you're very likely within half a watt.
*I'm close friends with a Specialized engineer.
Not sure how _new_ this is given the Velocomp Aeropod is on its fifth revision (and a third of the price).
EDIT: Ahhh, the body position sensor :)
The body position sensor really does seem to set this one apart from the alternatives out there, it definitely helps isolate equipment but more testing required before our full review!
Velocomp's Aeropod was one of the first products out there so they definitely led the way. However they don't account for wind yaw angle which is important in any real-world conditions.
Took me some time to find that comment! So many Luddites commenting useless crap on videos saying they don't need one. Peak torque has been using that pointy thing for testing, you should absolutely send him a unit he would be all over that stuff. You can find his email on his website he sells various niche bike bits.
powermeters makes sense because you can attach it via pedals or cranks and would be inconspicuous and they would work regardless of the position.
as for the drafting, this would be great for amateur/pro cyclists for competition.
but for the general public/cyclists/enthusiasts who just have money and want to be better. not sure how it will catch on.
Help me understand why you can't just ride the same segment in different positions?
If it's a totally windless day then you can. This thing gives true airspeed to eliminate the effects of wind from the calculations.
@@colcob Exactly, you need a bit of time in position to get a good average as the drag itself moves around a good bit. In the wind tunnel you typically average over 30 seconds or so. On the road, with real wind etc we need a bit more than that. Generally 600m-1km out and back gives good repeatability!
It would be better to have the information displayed graphically, a bar or a dial. That only takes a glance to understand.
anything to go faster on the bike~!
I was one of the few who bought that power meter air thingy. Power Pod I think it was called. Didn’t work for me
How does it compare to the Velocomp AeroPod you’ve presented 2019?
I am just feeling weird when I see different colours of tire's wall on the bike 😅 and... I think having better fitness level is more important that how aero I am on the bike.
My 19 yo just informed me it's now cool to run a tanwall on the front, black on the back. Supple front for suspension, rigid rear for power transfer. You could just do it with air pressure, but how would others know how unique and special you are unless you do what all the other unique and special people are doing?
Hasn't Velocomp been selling the AeroPod that does this for years?
Thats right -they definitely led the way here. Aerosensor is a second generation sensor that makes more accurate measurements, accounting for wind yaw angle (crosswind). More accurate means you can find those smaller marginal gains. Every little counts!
Any follow-ups? Which wheels are fastest?
We are very close to installing vortex generators on bikes, just like some cars.
This thing can't tell if the drag is comming from your tires or your helmet. I don't get it. How does it know your frontal area? How does it know your rolling resistance?
Super cool, I'll probably get more speed by shedding a few pounds of weight off my love handles
I’m basically a very sexy hippopotamus on a kids Huffy, I don’t need to be reminded constantly.
You're sexy and you know it
To get comparable data you'd need to get similar weather conditions
It measures all of the relevant weather data (wind, temp, air pressure, humidity, etc) and uses that to calculate your cda - that’s what the sensor in the front is for.
Data for the impact of those weather dependent factors on cda has been available for many decades now. That is how aeronautical engineers are able to develop planes that are aerodynamic in a range of different conditions. If the sensor is able to accurately detect the variables I mentioned above then it is a relatively simple process of calculating the impact of weather on drag coefficient. That’s why the device doesn’t work when cars pass. If the device doesn’t detect the weather-related variables of drag coefficient as accurately as it claims, well then it is essentially useless.
You can learn more about the mathematical models of drag coefficient and weather by searching exactly that.
@@tgibb17 Exactly - this is what makes it difficult! Our sensor accurately measures all relevant factors though - the most critical and hard to measure is the wind!
@@aerosensor4796 Makes sense. Is that difficulty with wind/cars passing due to sensor limitations or model limitations? I can imagine if the sensor only has one axis of measurement for wind it wouldn’t be able to generate very meaningful data in that regard. If it can accurately measure pressure and wind from all axes then it’s a processing difficulty? I’m not familiar with models of turbulence but I do that turbulence is quite hard to calculate. Is a garmin/sensor (not sure if your unit processes the data) powerful enough to perform accurate and fast turbulence calculations with current models? I’d imagine not, but that is no fault of your own.
I have no doubt that your device is internally valid and can accurately estimate a drag coefficient for the same rider on the same road with the same tires/bike. In that regard it is an incredibly useful tool for tuning in position. Then, once the body sensor figures out the position with the best cda it can monitor and provide real time feedback in a variety of different conditions.
With that in mind, and I don’t mean this in a negative way as that use case is still incredibly important, is the comparison of riders cda (like we saw in the video) really a fair and accurate comparison? Ie is this method of computing cda externally valid? I would imagine that road surface, tires, tire pressure, even bearing friction, and all other sources of friction would skew your measurement of cda. In the video he even talked about swapping wheels to finally see which one was more aero - is that even possible?
I recognize that the complications I mentioned aren’t exactly a fault of yours but rather the consequence of dynamic field testing. I’m just curious to know the reasons that the limitations exist! Also, he said cars passing caused rapid cda changes - any reason why there isn’t a noise reduction algorithm trigged by the detected pressure oscillations when a car passes?
I suspect I'll get something like this some day. Would also be cool if they added pitot tubes pointing sideways to analyze relative wind direction. Too often I get back from a ride feeling like I had unfavorable wind the whole time; this would either validate that or force me to suck it up. 🤣
ah, the old "againsterly"
@@roadccIt's as regular as the rising sun in my parts.
That thing is basically a pitot tube, no? the only thing it does it measuring airspeed hitting it. I am not sure how that thing can KNOW your body position's impact on Aero/slipperiness.
waiting for big fat e-roadbikes with aerosensors...
The accuracy in this kind of measurement assume no front/tail winds such as indoor application.
You dont need to own one rather just rent once or twice
For sure. There are a number of coaches already using it so it is possible to do testing without buying. You will soon recoup your costs by buying one though. There are always more aero gains to be found!
can now test if cutting off my ears is worth it
Lol the air resistance power meter is back 😂
These were a scam like 8 years ago
It's not in any way claiming to be a power meter
Not being able to use it in the rain seems like a major flaw tbh.
Sadly, any aero device needs a hole to measure the pressure so will always be incompatible with the rain. We appreciate that's a limitation but likely always will be.
If it's raining, I'm not riding. You probably have a UK bias?
Hopefully it doesn't measure altitude like the talking head says, but rather air pressure. And that thing is so big, it screws up the air flow behind it. So I guess run it low to get drag of your kit, run it high to get drag of your bike. Still having to do multiple runs. :( Should be using a pitot tube instead.
One of the inventors of a Canadian version of this product has ridden with an aero sensor in our club's local time trials for 3 years. It is clear that improvements in a rider's TT position can be obtained. The power produced in a given position + air speed data can be used to calculate a CdA number for comparison purposes. The result: if your initial position is awful, this kind of device helps.
The overall accuracy of the device is less clear. As I observed testing, it appeared that elite riders got less benefit since their position was already good. They couldn't necessarily validate improvements from small changes in riding position. With more data, and some targeted AI, this technology should allow more people to see benefits. Right now, not so much.
In my case, I am building my own aero sensor using the a drone air speed sensor and an Arduino SoC processor. Cost for parts is less than $100. Getting related software to work is a far bigger challenge. If the market is big enough, these devices could be sold for around $500. After reading some of the comments on this video, I'm not certain there will be enough buyers.
Actually that would be a great story for April 1st
timed coasting down a hill will let you know most of what you need to know,
Thats exactly right, if there is no wind..
To cut down the drag get the rider off most drag
Fool proof!
Aircraft engineering is imitating shark skin because it has the same abilities, to reduce drag, just in water instead of air. I am waiting for bike clothing wich is also imitating the structure of shark skin😊
The results are repeatable. This is a game changer. I bet teams are using this on every rider now. Instead of doing intervals at x watts. Intervals will be ride at x CDA for 300 watts. They can see which position is the fastest with RPE included. Coaches will have to figure it out. This is where people like Dan Bingham can allow the masses to put this tool to good use to get faster.
very interesting to make aero drag measurement tech available to users that can't afford wind tunnel sessions, but anyhow, it's not for me, as well as the power meters
too much data, i already know i first need to get rid of some weight and train more constantly
Wahoo has been sitting on it for years.
£1600. Does the kit also come with a bike?
Seriously!😂
And my headlight, front cam, or go-pro goes where? Nah im good. 😂
sounds like with all the caveats, the best place to ride your bike with this tech is in, er, a wind tunnel?
It's at least 350 GBP/h. In 3h you've paid for that gizmo. Whoever tests anything will tell you how quickly time passes, and that they have to go several times because each test asks more questions than it answers. So...
So it's a pitot tube for bikes? It's one of those "it's so obvious, why didn't I think of this?!" things. 😂
horrible choice of tires.... why not both black?
Good Lord!!! Just tie a ribbon!!!! if it faffs around: turbulence. if it stays almost straight: good stream. simple
Now I understand Western Jackets. 😃
WTF… i was expeting it to be like$50-$80 bucks when you mocked the expesive power meter, its over $1.2k.. ill stick to power meter. Lol
Dude I am an aerodynamics engineer and this thing is “useless” the measurement on the dynamic and static pressure resulting the difference in speeds on the ground and moving air won’t get you any benefits. Only thing you need is to reduce the surface of attack. Proper Cw calculations are not possible that way, but please prove me wrong!
A coefficient of drug? The pros should be using it🗿🗿
Nah, man, the only way I'm getting faster is when I quit slacking and start working harder...
Aeropod 2.0
Exactly! We are calling it second generation aero device..
This tech will highlight something bike manufacturers would rather be kept quite:- that the body accounts for 80% of total aero drag.
Therefore someone can have a 10% more aero bike than their friend, however if their friend is positioned 10% more aero, then they are 6% more aero and faster than the guy on the cutting edge bike (0.8*0.1 minus 0.2*0.1).
You can be more aero on a 2016 bike than someone else on a 2024 bike.
Let me just say it out loud for you again...'Your body is 80% of your drag' ....keep spending £1000 on 0.2% improvements on making your bike more aero :))
if u wanna reduce drag: Ride a velomobile!
Steering gets sketchy when you rise from the hoods on an intersection.
Aeropod??? Hardly news tech
So many Luddites on there bothering to comment they don't need one. Nobody cares, people. I can see how every triathlon club, at least, would buy one. People who organise triathlon camps should absolutely get one, you can then spend the week optimizing everyone. It's a real life wind tunnel, it's awesome. Send one to peak torque, maybe speak to Tristan from inronhuman (french guy who does triathlon camps), and Alex Dowsett would surely love one given he's just spent a pretty penny on wind tunnel time and make twenty videos off that.
Thanks for saying this.
It’s a fancy Speedometer.
The racing position, junction and hoods graph could have done in kph.
That Aero sensor is not "Aero" at all.
We've measured it in a wind tunnel and its negligible. There is of course a little drag on the device itself but this then "shields" the bike a little so net net has no overall impact.
The more junk you put on you bike the more drag you create, having less gadgets makes my bike look sleek and clean which makes me feel like I'm flying down the road like SUPER MAN. Just ride baby, just ride!
That bike has mismatched tires and it is making me mad
Once it hits $500, every triathlete on the face of the planet will buy it.....cyclists will be a lot longer.
$1500
Isn’t April 1 a few days off?
You guys are not getting out much, right;
Jamie is an unapologetic data nerd, but don't worry we take the piss out of him for it in the office
but adds weight :))))))
Must have been some snake oil in the Corn Flakes this morning.
This just makes me happy my obsession stops at Watts and HR
I can see why people would want one of these sensors but it's less clear to me how governments and corporations will benefit from using it to spy on you. Is it by also forcing you to get a bike computer that tracks you location and movements?
i am fat. i have to ride in front anyway so eeryone else is relaxing in my draft
I don't think this could be useful, it's too much inacurrate, all calculation is prediction, and all this prediction have limitations quite big
Data toxicity
This is pure BS. I can say this after having the privilege of testing for a company an wind speed sensor for bicycles. And I believe the presenter in this video is very wrong/misleading by pointing out the pitot tubes on F1 car hinting that they measure aerodynamics. That sensor is on a F1 car to measure wind speed. To measure drag the sensor would have to be at the rear of the bicycle or car. This is looks like BS.
We pointed out the pitot tubes because Aerosensor make them for haas. This bike system works in a similar way to the F1 pitot tubes, it measures the free stream conditions and then uses an algorithm, power data and body position to calculate the live drag, we’ll go in to more depth in the full review
A sensor at the back isn't measuring anything other than turbulence. This device absolutely measures the airspeed. This is combined with road speed and power output to calculate how much air-resistance is being overcome by the power being provided. This gives you a calculated value for CdA.
@@colcob Thats exactly right. Our founder, Barnaby Garrood, used to work for Ferrari and Mercedes F1 at the track, and the drag measurement algorithm is exactly the same as he used there. The physics don't change, just the numbers are smaller (including the budget!)
😂
$1 dollar for that product and I still think it would be a lot to pay.
@@DiegoHorchata Ouch! Compared to what people pay for aero upgrades (without testing they are actually faster!) on their bike we still think this is good value for money, although expect to be able to reduce price over time.
The Aeropod which has been out for years now is under half the price, looks far more aero and isn't near as butt ugly as this thing is.
I have this device.
Not that I am a good cyclist or anything, I am just a geek who loves gadgets.
This product is an embarrassment. Like you have to admire the audacity of taking a half baked piece of garbage like this, calling it a "product" and charging people $1k for it.
Absolutely *nothing* works. The device doesn't work, their software doesn't work. And sorry, shipping a $1000 device with a crappy 3d printed holder that your intern designed over a weekend is just... Just no!
This is not the only device of this kind on the market and I can't imagine other ones being worse. The bar is just too low.
can you expand a bit on what exactly doesn't work?
what a joke.. this sits in FRONT OF THE BIKE.. IN CLEAN AIR... how can show your drag... folks this is snake oil.. that just will lighten your wallet, nothing more
You just misunderstand. In order to calculate drag, you need only need to know how much power is being outputted, and what the current airspeed and roadspeed are (airspeed is necessary to eliminate the effects of wind). This device provides an actual airspeed by measuring the clean air flow in front of the bike, and by combining this with the power output to calculate the drag. You can calculate your own CdA easily from power and speed if you can guarantee it's a windless day.
@@colcob Correct. The device works extremely well actually, repeating within around 1.5% on the road so you can really find those marginal gains 🤓
Don't buy. Much more accurate systems are launching imminently.
We look forward to the competition! These devices aren't new, and new sensors coming online all the time. Jamie is right to make the analogy with power meters. It took a while to become mainstream but they are now commonplace with plenty of variations in accuracy and price. The biggest impact on accuracy is actually the power meter which will be a limitation of all of these systems.
Why do cycling channels who target the masses keep promoting this bullshit? Who cares about aero, cyclists want to ride in comfort. Even pros only ride in aero for only a few minutes at a time, if pros find it uncomfortable, it's even more so for the rest of us. Videos like this are trash. Are you guys really having that much difficulty finding topics to talk about?
Jfc....
what a ridiculous way to collect dentist aero data
Sounds like a load of Bull s#%t to me