#95 - Fluke 19x Li-ion battery mod
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- čas přidán 4. 08. 2020
- DIY Li-ion battery pack for Fluke 19x scopemeters. About twice the capacity of the original Ni-MH pack. Requires a small modification in the scopemeter: adding a 120K 1% resistor across R4113.
Repair video: • #93 - Fluke 199C scope...
Followup: • #94 - Fluke scopemeter...
Battery testing: • #68 - Using Agilent 66...
Forum: www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/...
Connector housing on Digikey: www.digikey.com/product-detai...
Crimp contacts on Digikey: www.digikey.com/product-detai... - Věda a technologie
That's a good update. I've been putting 18650 cells in all sorts of things lately.
Really like your logical thought process! Great video's! Thanks
Hello,
Thank you for the detailed tutorial. I have recently bought "LG INR18650-MJ1" Li-On cell for my scope I was able to replace the original Ni-MH cells based on this video. The Li-On cells as you said slightly bigger than the original ones, but I was able put the Load Balancing BMS into the "box". I just had to play little more with cover.
So thank you once again for the video!
Wanted to convert my 199C to Li-Ion for few years, had to change a battery every year. Now you did the hard work, thank you. I used 110 kohm resistor to charge to 8.2v, 4.1 per cell, and balanced bms.
What balancer did you use and how did you get it in?
@@je1966 Just a common 2S balance bms, flat type, installed approximately at bottom of pack
@@hacklordsniperdotcom I have been looking for BMS with balance and I have not found it smaller than the one shown in the video (47 * 20mm) and it does not fit either at the bottom, at the top or at the side, and I want not to put it away from the battery.
@@je1966 I have used standard 2S balanced BMS from eBay (rectangle shape). Tight fit but doable
Since the donor pack had a BMS, can that board be used in the 199C? Asking for a friend 😊 - Great Video!
Excellent, truly perfect. Thank you sir, my 199C is up and running again.
17:26 Thanks for your videos.
I have applied it to my two oscilloscopes.
Regarding your doubt about the behavior with the NTC resistor, I discovered it. I put the original NTC near the BMS and noticed that the oscilloscope charged very slow when connected for a long time. My NTC resistors are not like the one in your video, they are similar to a 1N4148 diode.
I discovered that when the NTC heated up very little (two or three degrees more, imperceptible with the finger), the resistance dropped from 9k to 8k and the current load dropped from 1000mA to 300mA.
I separated it from the BMS and it works fine now.
Thanks for giving me something to watch that finally make sense.
Excellent video as always.
Brilliant as usual, thanks a lot.
Good job! I'm also impressed your perfect English besides your very strong Russian accent. Regards from Australia!
Great mod , I have plan to do that soon for my 196B, and I will do the same procedure like you did for sure ;)
What is your run time now?
@@feedback-loop Zero :D my battery is totally flat :D I'm using only external adapter now. Problem is that I'm using this scope very rarely and therefore my new battery degrade so fast.
FeedbackLoop my 196B gives me about 4 seconds :)
Nicely done! !!
you are my savior 🥰 I wish you good luck and great victories
This is the perfect CZcams video.
Great work...cheers.
Thanks for your videos.
Hello everybody! Huge thanks to author! What do you think about the possibility of assembling of the battery pack without the bms? Just relying on inner charger. We see here that author himself rely more on inner charger, thats why he added 120 kohm resistor.
Very good video. Wanted to know how to solder the pads to the batteries without damaging them.
Those batteries have very good capacity considering their use and age. I have heaps of 18650s and none of mine are as good as those.
I was lucky I suppose. And those are very good Panasonic cells.
One thing I would consider is an external Li-ion pack to plug in the charge port, thus would not require inside mods.
Fantastic mod .great work .I have a fluke model 43 ,do you have a battery mod for that one ?
great job i love all your videos thank you
Awesome build. Think you'd sell this as an upgrade?
Is it true that you don't need to have a balance board for these 3 series 18650 cells (x2)?
Do you have one of the Agilent dynamic measurement power supplies such as the 66332A or 66309B/D, 66311B, 66319B/D, 66321B/D? I wonder if one of those would be useful for capturing the power on current spike, just out of curiosity. Maybe not too much more hassle to get set up if you already have a PC connected to the power supply for measuring charging capacity. Not really worth the bother if you just need to check that a 1.2A current limit is sufficient for power on.
Would you recommend the 199c 200mhz 2.5gs/s for $600?
Thanks for your amazing help.
Can you give me the diagram of Li ion battery pack and the information of new relacement of thermal sensor?
Hi what is the voltage /amps of power supply for this unit?
Thank you
I am able to answer my own question now. It is best to keep our LIthium batteries under the 4.2 volt top end. My personal Lipo/LiIo charger tops them off at 4.1 V, so that is the answer to my question.
I will add that I monitored the voltage during an NM-MH charge cycle of my fluke 199, and it did settle at 9.12 for the most part but maxed out at 9.3 volts on the initial recharge. I repeated this step 3 times while monitoring with a fluke 187 using the Max capture feature. It also appears the voltage is temperature-controlled. Holding an ice cube on the battery temp sensor resulted in the battery voltage dropping to 8.7 and ultimately setting to 8.75.
--Original Question--
Is it a requirement to modify the charge voltage if you use a BMS with an HY2213-BB3A (4.2v cutoff per cell) or CB3A (4.18 cuttoff) style BMS? Would this work well for this application and then you could keep the charge voltage at 9 volts?
I'm wondering how long (and that is IF) the cells remain balanced. I wish there was an easy way of at least trying to keep them the same voltage, for example with a resistive divider and a couple of diodes. I keep thinking about using 4,2 or 4,1V zener diodes across the cells, but 4,2V zeners don't exist, I think. It would be an easy way of providing a voltage cap across each cell. A well calculated resistor in series should prevent huge currents through the zener as they become conductive above the desired voltage level or is case of them failing in a short. Sadly it complicates the battery arrangement more and more the more I think about safety and what could go wrong.
How would they have remained balanced in the original laptop plastic pack? There were 3 cells in series when run inside the laptop pack, so if cell balance is an issue then surely they would have solved the problem in the laptop plastic pack?
Hi there
I did your mod on my 196B Fluke by adding the 120kohm resistor and obtained 8.34Volt
I made a battery pack with 6 LiIon batteries and used the old cable from the Nicad pack as I had a spare
The initial LiIon pack with a BMS 2 cell included was 7.27Volt
I monitored the LiIon pack voltage when I pluged the charger into the 196B, it was 7.27 Volt and rose to 7.28Volt after about 3 minutes and then a puff of smoke came out of R4101
I need some help here please, can you advise if your mod worked for charging your LiIon pack from 7 volt range?
R4101 has gone from 0.15 Ohm to open circuit ( in front of X4100), can you explain why? Is it possible that the use of the heatsensor or that my LiIon batteries is 2500Mah each ... to much current needed to charge from 7.27 volt? The IR of the Li-Ion batteries are 30Milli Ohm each
21 June 20121
OK I got it fixed........ M4105 ,R4103 (46 Ohm) was disconnected from R4101 and the Battery X4100 pin2
Step 7.3.5 on page 7-6 in the Fluke manual helped me find this fault
N4000:9 was 1.3 volt and M4105 was 0.849 Volt and they should be the same value
It charge at 1 amp now and final voltage is 8.35Volt DC with your mod
Thanks for all your help and moral support
Hello, please tell me where I can download the service manual on fluke434
Hello, thanks for the video and info.What should the value of R4113 be for a charge voltage of 8,4 volts?
@5:27
@@feedback-loop It's all my carelessness. Thanks
what BMS did you use?model? Thank you very much can you post an schematic of the pack?
I should have shown a close-up in the video. The module is marked WH-2S80A. On eBay it is easier to search for "2s 4a bms".
I posted a close-up on the EEVBlog forum.
Very good work! The battery bar of my 199C shows only full and after 2 hours the empty symbol nothing between. Do you know how to fix that?
try a refresh battery mode, in the right menu section. It will probably helps the scopemeter to analyse the slope discharge curve and make it correspond to the battery logo. I think it can work.
@@AIexanderHartdegen some feedback resistor needs modifying
Hi, may ask you about the charging current of the Fluke to the batteries, is there any chance of overloading and maybe damaging some parts due to current surge? These batteries change much faster and require a much higher current. any clarification, please.?
The batteries do not _require_ higher current. They _can_ take higher current. The scopemeter charges them at 1A. The charging circuit is current-limited.
@@feedback-loop Thank you so much, I'm sorry, I have to ask again, So the difference in the internal impedance between the different types of batteries ( Ni vs Li) is not a significant issue here? I'm sorry again, maybe I'm overthinking it?
Well, consider a resistor connected to a current-limited lab power supply. The current limit is set to 1A. You reduce the value of the resistor. What happens? The current is still limited to 1A.
That is absolutely true, thank you so much.
Приветствую.
Может Вы сможете подсказать - какой ток потребления в выключенном состоянии при питании от аккумулятора должен быть у исправного осциллографа? В моём случае - около 4,2мА. И мне кажется, это достаточно много. При использовании батареи, например, на 3200мАч, она сядет полностью где-то через месяц хранения прибора в выключенном состоянии. В Вашем видео я увидел ток 0,2мА. Я прав?
Я это не измерял специально. Да, в видео иточник питания показывает 0.0002A, но это на пределе его чувствительности, и, следовательно, очень не точно. Скорее всего в действительности меньше 0.2мА, но явно не больше 1мА.
1) Please tell me, did you use the original Fluke charger or your own?
2) is it possible to use a pulse charger 12v 2.5a for native batteries?
1. original 2. no idea what are you talking about
@@feedback-loop Thank you for the answer. I meant whether it is possible to use another non-native 12v charger, not a transformer charger.
@@saidgusainov6252 I believe that it can be any power supply about 15-17 V and capable of about 1 A of current. It is not really a charger, just a power supply. Charging circuitry is in the scope.
@@feedback-loop Thank you for your reply. Could you please check your mail.
Could you imagine the runtime with new 3500Mah 18650's... Although, lithium ion batteries come in a lot of different sizes! And then you have the lithium polymer batteries that have a nominal voltage of 3.2V which could be a better option depending on what you need. Lithium polymer is, I think a safer chemistry than lithium ion unless I'm mistaking it for LIFePO4... But yeah, there's options!
Now all that we need is a lithium upgrade to our normal multimeters and to get rid of that stupid auto turn off of the backlight and the unit itself!
How many times have I had to press and hold to get the backlight on, only to turn off just as I'm about to look at the screen! I know that I'm not the only person who has been frustrated by this and I would have thought that someone would have figured it out by now. Why can my cheap $6 eBay temperature probe keep measuring even if I had forgotten about it and came back to find the device under test still being measured and misbehaving! But my multimeter trying to do the same thing goes to sleep! I can imagine a world where we are constantly pushing buttons to keep everything awake! If the battery went flat because I forgot to turn it off, then it's my fault! But if a meter turned itself off because it was designed to, then it's their fault and that fault is more annoying than having to replace or recharge the batteries. Or at least have a setting to shut off the annoying turn off when you need it mode!
Yeah, 3.2V are LiFePo4. They are much safer and last longer (many thousands of cycles), but have lower energy density (watt hours per weight or per volume). And, yeah, with new 3500mAh cells we should expect about 10 hours of runtime. What would 6 such cells cost (preferably with tabs)?
@@feedback-loop they won't be cheap, but as a general rule, if you don't change then to their rated voltage of 4.2V and don't discharge them to their cut of voltage, technically you will never need to replace them in your lifetime! They like to hover around their nominal voltage of 3.6V so charge them to somewhere just above that and just below that (if possible) and you would forget what a battery is! The rated charging cycle by the manufacturer is usually for the full charge and discharge of the battery so by limiting of charge and discharge level will increase the life of the cells beyond comprehension! The basic idea is to parallel as may as you can and don't fully charge or discharge them! This principle works with all battery chemistries including lead acid, once this is understood, you can for example, build a battery storage setup for your solar system and never worry about replacing the Batteries, naturally you will have better results with lithium batteries than lead acid and the cost of such a system would be very expensive but it would be a once off cost over your lifetime. Imagine that! Pay once for your electricity and never see another bill again! Anything is possible, it just takes someone who has an interest in it and the money to make it happen, the first setup will be crude but functional but as time goes on, it would be perfected to a fine art and everyone will be doing it! But as I have said, it just takes one person!
В моём 196 со временем так же умер родной аккумулятор, но вместе с этим появилась и другая проблема, теперь от блока питания включается только после отсоединения аккумулятора... Видимо простой заменой блока с аккумом дело не обойдётся.
The same thing happened to me and just changing the battery was solved.
Wished you had taken a moment to illustrate the wafer circuit connection to the batteries. You show it attached to the pack, but not how you wired it. Otherwise, very useful.
Wafer?
@@feedback-loop The small wafer containing the circuit that controls charging of the cells. You showed three. The middle one did balancing. The other two did not. I was curious as to how you connected up the wafer that you did end up using.
By the way, I think I was in on one of the 199C auctions you won.... perhaps two auctions.
Your work on that vintage 7.5 digit DMM display was masterful. I tip my hat.
@@TheCondoInRedondo Oh, the BMS. It does not control the charging. It provides protections: overcharging, overdischarging, overcurrent, short circuit. And some of them also have balancing. Sometimes I forget to elaborate on some things because they seem too obvious to mention. Perhaps I could post a diagram on the EEVBlog forum. I have already posted a close-up of the BMS there.
By the way, I have other videos, in which I explained those protection modules in more detail. You may want to watch these: czcams.com/video/pM8xTWhUnNk/video.html and czcams.com/video/HqVPSuePv1c/video.html
@@feedback-loop Thanks so much. I will definitely check these out.
Боже, спасибо тебе за то, что я понимаю английский с "рязанским" акцентом на 146% лучше, чем любой другой )) Великолепный инженерный подход, к переделке устройства на литий, если по делу. Дай бог вам здоровья.)
Вероятно, ваш бог не наделил вас тактичностью
@@feedback-loop Простите великодушно, если моя шуточка вас задела, я сам обладатель такого же акцента
30 Celsius - Big Clive would melt!
over thinking are we ?
explain please
Здравствуйте уважаемы автор! "Requires a small modification in the scopemeter: adding a 120K 1% resistor across R4113" - имеется в виду паралельно резитору R4113? не силен в английском?
именно так
@@feedback-loop Спасибо огромное! А добавление этого резитора на что влияет? И как вы поступили с NTC датчиком? Отключили или оставили как есть?
@@user-ku7sz9iy7w резистор устанавливает максимальное напряжение зарядки около 8.4 вольта. датчик оставил как есть
I would hate to keep charging it every single day if it was on for all 8 hours of the day
Hi, did you recognize any problems with charging liion-pack in the scopemeter? On another YT-channel i heard that the charging circuit in the 196x can be damaged by li-ion mod due to different charging characteristic of li-ion against NiMH: czcams.com/video/zA_skz9O9dY/video.html
I don't think there is a problem with different charging characteristics. Charger is current-limited. The target voltage should be adjusted to 8.4 V, which is easy to do. I believe he is wrong about some "overload". It is quite hard to understand what he is saying.
@@feedback-loop Just what i was thinking. It is unclear, what he is talking about and whats the problem. He talks of 24h charging, which seems to have damaged his circuit - but i don't understand why...
@@rilosvideos877 If I understand correctly, _his_ circuit was damaged because the first version did not have proper current limiting or something like that. But why did he decide to have his own circuit instead of using the existing one - that is unclear. I believe he is wrong about that. The existing charger should work fine once the target voltage is adjusted to 8.4V
Chinese Nimh isn't that good either. I got some ebay ones for my drill and after 1 year they weren't that good anymore, ie, you had to charge it before every use.
Hello,
is it possible to turn on fluke 434 without battery