Solving the ATR Hotel Mode and the Prop Brake release issue in Microsoft Flight Simulator
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- čas přidán 11. 10. 2023
- Ever since the last major update to the ATR family of aircraft in Microsoft Flight Simulator, people have been having problems with Hotel Mode, and Prop Brake release. People espoused all manner of checklists that purported to either fix or work-around the issue. The actual problem is rather more intractable - I narrowed it down to a root cause. POSTSCRIPT - the bug still exists if you do a full work-up of the aircraft - I'll investigate further when I have more time.
POSTSCRIPT - I've updated the hotel mode start-up procedure to avoid external power - it seems to be the culprit. ko-fi.com/s/ae35cd7f2d
You can find my "no-hotel-mode" startup procedure at:
- ko-fi.com/jonbeckett/shop
Enjoy :)
#msfs #flightsimulator #aviation #flying #flight #simulator #microsoft #asobo #tobii
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- virtualflight.online
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- www.flightsimulator.com/
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- navigraph.com
Copyright © 2023 Jeppesen. All rights reserved. The charts are available to the flight simulation community via Navigraph.
LittleNavMap (mapping software)
- albar965.github.io/littlenavm...
OBS (Screen and audio capture)
- obsproject.com/
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Volanta (flight tracking)
- volanta.app/
Simbrief (flight planning)
- simbrief.com
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Ive been using this plane in the new release of neofly career mode .thank you sir for your commitment and dedication to your content. As a pilot in real life and sim enthusiast i very much look forward to the videos and content you release.
Glad to see this video. Ive had the issue, but haven’t spent much time in the ATR, so honestly assumed it was something I likely was missing. Was frustrating though
Never had a problem with this, finding these videos crazy!!. 😮
Great video and explanation of such an annoying problem. I always look forward to your content. Cheers!
I don’t believe this. I have been on your discord complaining that I couldn’t get this to work. Tried doing some suggestions tonight and it still wouldn’t work. I am going to do this tomorrow evening, and if it works, I am going to cry tears of joy. Thank you so much for this video
There's another trick that makes it work reliably - DON'T use external power. I have updated the downloadable procedure to account for it - ko-fi.com/s/ae35cd7f2d
You're not flying it in this video, but I just wanted to drop by and say thank you for your uploads using the MD-88. I picked it up the other day and your videos helped me get a much better understanding of the plane, having a great time flying it. Cheers, subscribed
Cheers :)
Brilliant! That explains why it works for me sometimes and not others. I'll go and try it out. Thank you 👍
Unfortunately it's not a complete solution. I may follow other's lead and avoid using external power - I need to test first though.
TLDR - At 4:48 I show the problem, and the partial solution. I've updated the hotel mode start-up procedure to avoid external power - it seems to be the culprit.
aahahha amazing discovery! i was having this exact issue and you fixed it! this plane is so much fun
Well done GREAT INFO 🥳👏
...
1. Do not use AC ext. ( DC ext is not needed too )
2. Condition lever must be Low idle (FTR feather). Not Auto.
3. GUST must be Lock.
4. Aux hy.. pump button need only 1 click.
Did you completely miss the part where I said "I'm not going to do the full procedure today" :) I've tried the throttle in multiple configurations - it actually makes little or no difference - the simulation of the engines isn't THAT accurate. Interestingly, doing a "restart" in a flight, versus going to the main menu and re-loading makes a difference too.
Thank you very much for solving that annoyance 👊
And to clarify things for pushback, it is normal to have hydraulics pump offline during pushback because the ACWs are offline. You can turn on the ACW by putting the CL to AUTO once cleared by ground crew for propeller rotation. Once NP reach 66%, respective ACW should go online and the NP continue to spool up until 70.8%. Once ACW online, hydraulic pumps should become online. ACW 1 powering the Blue pump and ACW 2 powering the Green pump.
This!
Thanks for figuring that out !
Turns out there's even more to the bug than that.
I had this problem for so long without knowing what it was therefore taxiing on one engine 😆
Thank you for this trick !
It's not the only problem unfortunately - if you involve external power in the start-up sequence, that can kill the prop brake too. I've changed the procedure to not use it - ko-fi.com/s/ae35cd7f2d
STOP PRESS - the bug still exists under specific circumstances. It *appears* to be a sequencing bug within the cockpit programming. I'll carry on investigating when I have more time. POSTSCRIPT - I've updated the hotel mode start-up procedure to avoid external power - it seems to be the culprit. ko-fi.com/s/ae35cd7f2d
I thought was me who didnt the right procedure. I will try your for my next flight.
Thank you so much :)
There's a further problem seemingly caused by external power that makes the prop brake not release - I've therefore removed it from the procedure, which now works reliably. ko-fi.com/s/ae35cd7f2d
thanks so much, you solved my problem!!! 💯
I have a way of doing this but I thought it was just me. lol I'm writing this before seeing how you get around it. It may be the same. BTW it was your videos I watched to learn the ATR. Cheers for that!! Edit: After watching video it did help me. I was shutting down engine 2 after I got engine 1 running and start it back up with the brake off. Thanks for the fix!! Gonna test it now. lol
Haven’t flown my ATR for ages, must do something about that. Thx mate !
I worked that out by trial and error. I would click on the auxiliary hydraulic on the pedestal as per your video and then shuffle the throttles once or twice and try again and kaboom it would light up finally.
Strewth, they really landed us a brain-twister with that one!
I've updated the hotel mode start-up procedure to avoid external power - it seems to be the culprit.
Excellent Jon, thank you ! This can drive you nuts 🥜 🐿️ not anymore :)
I've updated the hotel mode start-up procedure to avoid external power - it seems to be the culprit.
Thanx a lot sir....
Hello Jonathan, I don't know if you use VATSIM, but flying an half Italian Airplane finally will be possible for me. And plus, also to enjoy regional routes! Just arrived here casually.....and you deserve an new follower from Italy NOW. I hope one day to see you in my radar as soon as possible on VATSIM. Usually I cover Milano CTR
I need to do some content on VATSIM - to encourage people to use it :) I don't usually use it in videos because I would end up having to edit (while waiting, etc).
@jonathan Beckett. I hear the ATR72 600 has been updated yesterday 18.01.2024. I hope they have fixed the start up problems 😬
Thanks for sharing the info to bypass this nonesense issue. I got the luck of having spent uncontable hours inside an ATR 42-300 and I can tell to all ASOBO engineers/programmers that this is nuts. Once you put Conditional Levers in AUTO position ACW and Main Hydraulic lines start working like a swiss clock... also and non less important: THERE IS NO understandable reason why one loose hydraulics once you put back to idle the throttle levers. Now I understand why I loose the control in the steering wheel and in the toe brakes once I throttle back to idle just reaching the holding point, also taxi lights go off. They also need to fix that. 1846 KWs on each wing and we need to play with the throttle like if it were a general aviation with a piston engine.... just to keep AC alive.... unearthly.
It's just an ordering issue. Once you get your head around what has to happen in what order (regardless of how the real world works), it works fine :)
didnt even realize it was broken, i didnt even realize you were supposed to hold it down
It's changed with each update, and now appears to be broken.
Thank you for this video. This is the exact problem I ran into.
I've updated the hotel mode start-up procedure to avoid external power - it seems to be the culprit.
@@jonbeckett Thanks! I will check your website and download it.
Love your videos. Your information is outstanding. Can I give a tip that will make look closer like a pilot and not a simmer? Always clear the caution light and identify why it was flashing. I know that, in this case, it was starting the aircraft, but you need to know if you have a new caution during starting, and that will happen with a new caution light. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Bottom line is to clear the caution light.
Good shout :)
Thanx mill
You legend!
Hydraulic issue appears for me only after SU13. As a result, brakes don't work sometimes. Hope H. Hartmann will fix that (surprisingly, no patch has been release yet). I had no issue with prop break, just click once on the button.
I have that same problem since the update, no pressure for the brakes and no electric for the lights. Love this plane but no idea what they've done
@@jasonbrackstone yeah, surprising they didn't already solve that since the beta testing of SU13 ! Weird !
@@kohheiva I hope they fix it soon
Hello,
For me I can only switch on the probbreak with the throttle in idle. After switching on you can give more gas for more pressure and power.
Similar to the taxi problem I get, on idle lose hydraulic/brakes and taxi lights go out? Add power and it's ok.
Great video, and checklists btw, thank you.
Yep - the lack of electrical power at idle is a bug, by the sounds of it.
A real teaser that aux pump!!🤔Have had my hard times with that too!
It's more complicated than this even. It may be that external power is the culprit.
@@jonbeckett British Avgeek has made a very good video on this subject, after the big update.
Thanks again for digging into this. I've had no issues once I stopped trying to connect to external power. I'm not saying that is causally responsible, but rather that it leads me down a good flow that works every time and makes sense. I hit the battery and then get right into the flow of enabling hotel mode including hitting the HYD AUX before enabling. Its the J flow that the Fly with Magnar channel advocates. Connecting to external power while enabling hotel mode never made much sense to me. The point generally is to be used in lieu of external power so I kept that out of my flow when I want to simulate use of hotel mode and, as I said, that flow has now worked on a dozen flights with no issue the past month. I'm pretty sure there is some confused logic creating a race condition or creating a confused situation it can't get out of. Happy hunting!
I think you're right. There is a hell of a bug deep in it somewhere - because if you do the full work-up, the bug is still there.
I've updated the hotel mode start-up procedure to avoid external power - it seems to be the culprit.
@@jonbeckett Yeah, I figure there is a state/variable getting flipped in the external power logic that is later inhibiting re-engagement of the prop. Thank goodness its at least a clean "use hotel mode or external power" without having to remember some trickery in the order.
Would explore engine shutdown as well. Can’t seem to pull cutoffs to cutoff.
I would just put the ATR to one side until they fix it :)
DO NOT move CL to AUTO when you're on hotel mode. I see when the hydraulic was fault, the ACW also offline. What you should check is the NP. ACW is connected to the prop and will only start generate electricity when the NP is above 66%. It probably doesn't reach 66% before you open the power a bit, hence the ACW remained offline and not powering the hydraulic system. That's what you should check and report to the dev because the NP should reach at least 70.8% when on ground idle with CL on AUTO.
Great feedback - thankyou. The odd thing - if you open the throttles to get the generators and hydraulic systems working, it still doesn't release the prop brake. On occasion I've also seen the animation break - where the propeller doesn't spin but it's actually working - all the guages respond, and you can fly the aeroplane :) I'll have another look later based on your tips though - and look through the start procedure again.
Bless you for doing this investigation. I have just been skipping the hotel mode when flying the ATR, and it is the plane I fly the most.
It turns out there's more to it. I'm going to carry on digging.
Hi Jonathan, thank you for doing this video. Unfortunately, I have the same problem. After starting engine 2, I then prepare to push back. When I disconnect the 2 GPU buttons on the overhead, then disconnect the GPU on the EFB and then remove the wheel chocks, I lose power? Engine 2 shuts down and 2 MFD turn black. No power? I then cannot reStart engine 1 or 2. 😡 How do I keep the plane running once I disconnect from the GPU and remove the wheel chocks ??. Thanks
Download the procedure again from ko-fi.com/jonbeckett - I updated both the hotel mode and non-hotel mode start procedures.
@@jonbeckett Thank you very much. I will download the updated procedures today 😉
Update! Good News...I found the problem. I originally duplicated my Honeycomb Yoke button settings from another aircraft. Those bindings were conflicting with the ATR aircraft. I had to delete the duplicated bindings and start a fresh and that fixed my loss of power issues.
ATR developers should send you a commission for doing their job documenting the start procedure correctly..... Great stuff JB, thank you
I've updated the hotel mode start-up procedure to avoid external power - it seems to be the culprit.
all the developers should....many thanks
@@jonbeckett This works with or without external. All you are doing is starting the right engine as an APU and then disconnecting. I still don't know why you are struggling with this.
@@PThomas22 there is a bug in it somewhere. I've spent hours going around in circles looking at the various systems - for whatever reason, sometimes the prop brake just won't release - even though it says ready. If you get the sequence "right" you can release the prop brake, the propeller doesn't spin, but you actually have a working engine and propeller (if that makes any sense) lol - I'm sure it will get fixed eventually.
@@jonbeckett Again you are incorrect, the right engine has a prop brake. If you want hotel mode you start it as such. then you start the left after the right is unlinked/brake off. There is NO bug.
Hello, thank you for your research.
There are various problems in MSFS.
I don't need a double click. Switching probbreak on or off is only possible when the throttle is idling.
A problem for me: All BlackSquare extensions always start with the GNT 750 not installed. After switching to the standard gns 530, the flight plan is gone. It doesn’t matter whether the flight plan was saved or comes from the world map.
According to Just Flight, that can't be the case.
Switching radio kit will always wipe the flight plan. Why you always get the GTN750 is the real mystery. How do you close the aircraft down? I'm aware that some choices only get saved if you follow the proper route - shut the aircraft down, and go back to the main menu.
Hey, it's a mystery to me, I've been trying all the options for a year, the GNT 750 keeps coming back, as I said, it's not installed.
I mean it's been since the addon WT GNS530 was replaced by the standard WT GNS530?
With Blacksqare you should reconsider switching the Nav devices if the flight plan is gone when you switch.
All of my other aircraft always take off with the correct navigation device configuration.
Only when Blacksquare fixes this problem will I buy their planes again.@@jonbeckett
Brilliant. Procedures so clearly explained and demonstrated.
how can i import my simbrief plan into navmap that i dont have to tip everything into little nav map
In the latest version of LittleNavMap there is an "Import from Simbrief" option in the file menu.
jonathan sir i facing a prob in little navmap the small yellow indicator of wind dis appeared i need help from u
That means you've lost the connection to the simulator. In the Tools menu, re-connect to the simulator.
followed word for word... still not working.. mine gives me a READY LIGHT AFTER ENGINE 1 START... and still when i turn PROP BRAKE OFF.. THAT ENGINE ISNT SPINNING!
Yeah - it has even more bugs that I discovered in the video - avoid external power, and it will work.
I don't have a problem with the propeller brake, only the electric one. When the engines are idling, the lights turn off. Once the wheel brakes didn't work
When the engines are at idle, the generators don't work. It's probably a bug.
ok..... do your brakes work after you do that ...???
Good question :)
Just to make this plane even more controversial. Thanks, Asobo/MS.
Great video 👍 I would also say to have a look at 'Fly with Magnar' and his CZcams channel. He is an actual ATR pilot and instructor who goes through everything with this aircraft for MSFS using his real world knowledge and skills and many real world flights.
Yep - I've seen his videos. The problem is the bugs have appeared SINCE his videos. His electrical systems video is of interest, because he points out some of the things that don't work too :)
You still have it all wrong and basically tried to reproduce my video from your previous post about it being "bugged" do not HOLD down the hydraulic button and just press it. Works every time. Here it is AGAIN this should be pinned as it is a simple no BUGGED procedure. There is a lot of ignorance when it comes to this, and your video demonstrates it again. Watch and learn. Works EVERY time. czcams.com/video/Kka0mH5J9ks/video.html
There's no need to start flinging accusations around! It's a game - it's supposed to be fun! :) I discovered the click versus hold-down issue while investigating the problem. I'll return to it again soon and take another look at it. All I had been doing (when I discovered the single click issue) was working through the various systems to see what interacts with what, and if it does so correctly. If you only start the engines, single clicking the they start every time - and hotel mode operates correctly. If however you start to introduce the rest of the start-up procedure, *something* interacts with the prop brake release. Several people have commented that it could be to do with the RPM of the engines at idle being wrong - I'm not entirely sure - you would think if that was the case then opening the engines up further (to get the generators and hydraulics working) would solve it - but it doesn't seem to. When I get more time I'll take another look :)