Use a VCR as an RF to Composite Converter
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- Are you looking to connect a classic video game console that only outputs #RFvideo to a scaler like a #RetroTINK? The first few minutes of this video shows you all you’ll need…and the rest of the video nerds out on a bunch of fun stuff; It should be a decent watch for both beginners and even seasoned retro gamers!
RetroTINK Products: www.retrorgb.com/retrotink.html
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3-RCA cable: amzn.to/3OFJgxe
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Audio Y-Cable (for 2-RCA): amzn.to/49bHCM5
Cheap Composite Switch: amzn.to/4bDfTFQ
Don’t Connect Your Consoles Directly To A Flat-Panel TV: • Why Retro Consoles Nee...
Choosing The Right Cable For Your Classic Consoles: • Choosing The Right Cab...
Lag Testing Retro Scalers: • Lag Testing Retro Scalers
Time Sleuth: www.retrorgb.com/timesleuth.html
Famicom Upgrades and Shell: www.retrorgb.com/famicom-boar...
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00:00 Intro
00:50 What’s Needed
05:19 Setup
07:50 Quality
12:38 Multiple RF
14:47 Lag Testing
17:21 VCR Playback
19:15 VCR Recording
21:37 Conclusion - Hry
It took me a long time to realize that all my childhood consoles weren't played over composite; sure, we used composite cables, but they went into a VCR, which was plugged into an RF-only TV; so even though I thought I was using composite, it turns out RF was still the limiting factor!
Unless you were in the late 70s , 80s it was standard to connect a Vcr over scart / peritel not RF , here in EU at least
@@cnfuzz This was North America in the 1990s, we never got SCART and RF-only TVs seem to have been much more common (though composite was also pretty common) on this side of the Atlantic for whatever reason
I've been streaming / speedrunning on twitch since 2012 using a Panasonic VCR to stream the RCA output jacks and shoot the RF out to a CRT with zero lag. It has RCA Stereo and RF in / out and they are all interchangeable. How fortunate i was to have this thing since the 90s! It's a beast. Still cranking after years of abuse 😂
There was a period of time post-VHS where my VCR's job was just this so I could play GameCube on my tiny RF-only bedroom TV.
I had a Gameshark-branded RF box for my Gamecube and RF-only television.
Resourceful!
Thank you for this. I know that RGB & fancy PVMs are big in these circles, but RF still feels like "home" for older systems like the NES for some of us.
I appreciate the look at how clean RF can look! There's so many videos featuring RGB mods and such that it can be hard to remember that composite and RF can look just fine at no additional cost or difficulty with mods
80s kid here, RF through a VHS in composite is how I played all of my consoles when I got them on their release dates. NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, Dreamcast, PS2, OG Xbox....I just plugged and played, no thought of using other video cables, so to me this is the most genuine and how it was actually done for most of us in that time period. This video is much appreciated to remind us that this way of playing is perfectly fine. PVMs and RGB is nice and all, but that it isn't the only way to play retro consoles, and this video inspires me to have an RF consumer CRT setup side by side with my 20M4U PVM.
Growing up i had the opposite problem, my parents always cheaped out on TVs so they never had AV ins (until the late 90s/early2000s) so i had to figure out how to get a vcr to switch to "composite in" without the context of the manual
*hint if you don't have an input/line in button you can set a tv or vcr to channel 1
& then hit channel down, that has switched to line in/input on all tvs & vcrs i tried it on
Back in 2011 or so we were at a hotel for a little while and there was a TV that only had RF input, so I brought along my VCR and my Wii so I could play Luigi's Mansion. Worked great.
With my new game room set up, I'm currently using RF on 3 consoles that don't have cables or an RGB/component mod yet (NES, Atari, and GameCube). Even though I won't be using a VCR, this video was a nice refresher down memory lane.
I think we all truly appreciate your experiments!
Great video, Bob. VCRs can still be easily found for cheap and in this age of the scaler, and this is a great way to deal with those RF-only devices.
What an awesome video I had no idea RF output could look like composite video in my 30s I love these kind of old school informational videos
Dude, this was a great one! Some of my earliest memories gaming with my brother were using a SMS2 rf only into a tiny CRT in our bedroom. Those switch boxes brought back memories! So much nostalgia for RF even though there are so many better ways these days it still represents how I remember games looking back in he day. The extra deep dive stuff was brilliant too! Legend. 👊😎
Thank you :)
Using a VCR to convert composite to RF is how I played my 32X, PS1, Sega Saturn, and N64 back in the day.
Also the RF only TV in my room was an old late 70s/early 80s Trinitron. Man, I did not know how good I had it then.
Same, for Saturn & Dreamcast until I bought my first HDTV
Literally was considering this last week trying to get an old RF only laserdisc player working. Wonderful video.
I feel like this is important but vastly overlooked! fantastic video Bob!
looking fly in that T-shirt my dude!
Bro I was JUST watching your video on connecting consoles to a CRT monitor via component and RGB, thinking "Huh, wonder how I can hook up my Atari too,"
Then you release this gem. Reading my fucking mind 😎
Didn't get the chance to watch this one right away but your comment on it via the podcast got me curious to check it out today. Fun stuff! As someone that used RF for everything through a VCR as a kid, this brought back some cool little memories. I know a few years ago when I was getting my current apartment decked out with my retro consoles again your channel and site were big helps from takin most of that RF stuff and getting better signals out of them. Thanks for all your help :)
Edit: "Okay now let's get weird" say no more bob lmfao, love when you do some goofy stuff like this, something I enjoy doing too.
Great video! I literally went down this rabbit hole two weeks ago getting a famicom to work on a pvm. Now I wish I had just waited and watched this.
Used to use my families VCR to play my n64 as a kid. Had a power outage kill the vcr so I had to switch to the official RF switch. Good to see using the VCR this way is still useful in some cases.
Thank you, thank you, for the demo on RF output consoles of my youth. Yes, I bought the Radio Shack RF modulator thinking it would be useful.
Speaking of RF modulators, there is one that supports stereo via MTS. Radio Shack model 2525 is the model number.
Thanks again for a great video, I did something similar for a PAL Colecovision and in preparation for some NTSC consoles that I never got in the end, I bought a professional Sony TV tuner (VTX-100M) which is multisystem (NTSC, PAL and SECAM) and is also a composite switch (just 2 inputs, but still a switch).
Much more expensive than a cheap VCR but still affordable (it was 65€ / $70 posted). I got lucky since the same guy sold me a Sony BVM 20F1U and several interface cards for it as well. My first steps to "authentic" Retro RGB perfection 10+ years ago now.
when I am thinking about myself using RF back in the day, from my (sort of...) s-video capable C64 ... I WANT TO CRY !
I had constant issues with RF but could not do anything about it... (yes when I touched the cable the image quality become better but that wasn't a long term solution obviously). Only years later I learnt that I could have had a perfect picture :( I can't get over it.... I STILL CAN'T! :D
this video just added insult to injury, but thanks :D
Life is unforgiving 😄 Same for me with Philips Videopac (Odissey 2)
Same here, but in addition the top part of my TV would warp the image and needed a frequent downward 'adjustment' with my fist to fix the display! These days I run my C64 with a c0pperdragon component video mod then through a RetroTINK COMP2RGB and on to a very nice Trinitron.
@@brianstuntman4368 do you use a modern 1541 alternative? or a real 1541? I do not have a 64 anymore... that disk spees..... :/
@@nattila7713 I use a 1541 Ultimate II (cartridge) with accurate disk drive emulation.
That's what I did when I found an old Admiral 19" CRT TV dirt cheap.
Unfortunately... It only had an RF input.
I went and dug out my Daewoo VCR and a system selector.
Hooked the VCR to the TV antenna jack and the system selector to the back VCR AV input.
Now, I have my PS2, OG Xbox, and GameCube hooked up to it.
Just like during the glory days of the sixth generation.
Been using vcrs for ages for simply having an excellent rf modulator to composite. Rarely you will find an vcr that outputs svideo. Excellent video on this.
Some games on the atari throw the sync out of wacky when cycling colors. Pretty sure the empire strikes back on the 2600 does that on my ossc upscaler with koryuu.
I find that the cable itself is vulnerable to outside interference. If you're going to use RF make sure you use a cable with thick rubber insulation and foil shielding, even the original cables that came with the consoles usually aren't able to block out all the modern wifi interference. Keep distance between the power cables and RF cables too.
RF was my main video output on all my consoles up until I got a PS3 in 2010. Jumped straight from there to HDMI, and am only going back and doing scart/component cables on my older consoles in the last few years.
If you're weird like me and want VHS output to a home theatre setup then S-Video out is very handy.
I used to always hook up my retro consoles through a vcr that was connected to a crt via RF or Coax
this is how i played my gamecube, a friend gave me the gamecube with the RF connector and for me to even use it I needed to plug it to my VCR so I could get composite out
The RCA Studio II also passed power through the RF cable and required its own RF switch.
Thanks for sharing. I'd honestly never heard of that one until you mentioned it.
Oh nice! I was just thinking yesterday that I could've sworn the Tink 5x had a TBC mode but I wasn't at home to actually check it. Nice to know I'm not going crazy. (Though I wonder if the 5x's TBC is suitable for things like video art.)
As for the upcoming video on VHS capture, I know you've discussed it in live stream interviews before, but I'd love to see something on VHS decode! I completely stumbled upon the process last night via youtube recommendations and was kicking myself for not having heard about it sooner.
Wow, I did not realize the 5X had a TBC mode! I am fortunate to have a VCR that has component out and TBC built in which is great for capture and for stubborn tapes. I might still need to grab a 5X as a TBC and for some of my consoles. Great video!
YPbPr out on a vcr? Is it a dvd combo unit?
@@BushidoBrownSama Yes, it is a JVC HR-XVC37U, it also has s-video and digital audio out!
I gotta try this !!! Was thinking about this lately, you read my mind. The RF male connector from the 2600 has a thicker centre pin, so it wouldn’t fit modern tv’s, but would poorly scale it anyways. Though some games were almost ok to play. Imagine, an RF to 4K upscaler !!! The mods i’m not a fan of, the ones out now oblige you to give op the RF modulator of the console. And Tim Worthington’s AtariRGB mod is long out of production. The website states there’s a new mod coming, but no time frame can be promised.
Still have the original RF switch which I use with my ColecoVision console. 👍
Great video, worth mentioning that a lot of VCRs support SCART, sadly not RGB, I do wonder if anyone has tried to modify VCRs to support RGB.
I've noticed RF quality changes with the weather too, usually a sunny clear day was fine but it was worse on a rainy day, and with poor reception from cable TV and a snowy picture my NES looked far worse.
I use a top loader NES through rf to a 9 inch crt and it looks great. I have a straight connection through a shielded cable and use a female to male converter piece to get rid of the pass through box that introduces the static everyone hates.
I was fine springing for a Mitsubishi S-VHS VCR on eBay for this a couple years ago, but also cause I wanted to watch "Ted Turner's travesty" aka colorized Casablanca. (It's only on VHS.) Plus I was always interested in having an S-VHS VCR anyways too. I'm not sure if s-video actually improves the video in these cases, but I did get a sealed blank S-VHS tape to record some stuff. lol
I've got a Mitsubishi SVHS VCR myself and I hooked up my N64, SNES, and GameCube with Nintendo's offical muitli-AV out external RF modualtor. With a good qauility cable, RF looks really clean over S-Video, almost native S-Video qaulity, it's beautiful.
Awesome video, in my channel I digitaze VHS's using a Panasonic NV-FS200 with TBC bulit-in and Hi-Fi, then as capture device I use Elgato Video Capture using S-Video (but i just bought the retroscaler from aliexpress that uses composite, s-video and component to HDMI like a retrotink 2x) and then i skip the Elgato Software and i'm using OBS offcourse to scale videos to 2k and 4k then as last option I can use Topaz Video AI to remove noise, and enhance the video quality.-
But yes the most important part is to have a VCR with TBC or at least a Retrotink 5x that has that functionality, if i only knew that i would never had to spend 200 usd to fix my Pro Panasonic VCR :(
I never knew this growing up. Amazing information Bob, thanks for sharing. Have you tried putting a metal box (lol or lead shield if you have that just lying around) on top the console to see how well it helps with interference?
Thanks! And yeah, you can try some tricks to help - Use extra shielded cables, ground them, etc. But for me personally, there's a line of "embrace them as they are" and "mod it for composite or RGB". So I don't obsess too much :)
Some of my VCRs default to outputting RF, and require using the input button on the remote to switch to outputting composite. If your VCR doesn't seem to be outputting any signal, try switching the input.
I've been smoking for years and I'm not dead .. but on a lighter note if you have interference put some caps on your coaxial lines that are not being used this is something the cable company will quite frequently do if they have a splitter and they have inputs that are not being used. They will just simply cap them off to prevent extra RF interference
I pioneered this method in 1992.
wait...couldn't you use this to pickup RF from a SEGA Genesis directly through a domesday duplicator? The file size would be enormous, but it might make for some fun projects if it really works.
I've kept mine all this time just to run the SNES and Atari 2600.
Only just saw the rf to composite adapters in 2024, lol.
This is very interesting bob. I have recently been feeling sad when I modding a famicom to composite and getting rid of the old rf. I know I'm weird. But these are great solutions. Thank you.
By the way where did you get the clear famicom controller shells 😮??
Thanks Scruffy! All links are in the description :)
Found it thanks Bob.
Netflix Seinfeld looked so horrible on my 4K tv. So i tried to output from my iPhone to an Apple lightning to HDMI adapter. Then fed the HDMI signal to my HDMI to AV Converter. And further from the AV (composite) output into my CRT tv. It didn’t work, no signal. And i’m sure the adapter and converter are not broken. Aaaa, one day i’ll figure it out :)
You forgit to show what RF looked through S-Video on a SVHS player. I've tried it with a SVHS VCR and RF looks insterting over an S-Video output to my Retrotink 5X
S-Video should look worse, as you're not utilizing the composite video comb filter. I most certainly didn't "forget" to show it.
@@RetroRGB my SVHS player does some kind of comb filtering when feeding it an RF signal over S-Video ouput to the Retrotink 5X.
I had to do this when I bought an Atari 5200 in like 2018.
anyone who didn't try using a VCR to do RF to Composite in the 80s and 90s, missed out.
Hey Bob, another great video.
In your opinion, is it worth buying a retrotink 2x to use on an RF only CRT connected to a VCR using all consoles through the VCR composite input? I’m always interested in trying things to see how much better I can make retro games look on different set ups. Thanks.
Thanks very much! I'm not sure I understand the question though. How would the RT2x be implemented in a CRT setup?
...but if you have a bunch of consoles with composite video cables, connecting them to a VCR's composite video input and the VCR's RF out to an RF-only TV is an excellent solution.
That connection is what I’m doing now. What I mean is, is using a retrotink 2x paired with an hdmi to a/v converter to tinker with the resolution quality worth trying? Or is it more worth trying with the tink 5x since it has more features?
Definitely no need for that. The RetroTINK products will only improve video quality going to flat-panels. Good thought though!
That’s very good to know. Thanks again Bob👍❤️
I always wondered about this, with the super cheap crappy vcrs that were made at the end of the vcr lifetime, do they have crappy rf convrters in them? or is the tech so stupid simple that any old one will be roughly as good as in a premium vcr or expensive dedicated converter.?
Good question. By that time, RF boxes were such a basic commodity that even a cheap VCR should have one that's decent quality.
It wasn't mentioned in the video, but does using a heavily shielded RCA cable a la the Monster Cables of yesteryear noticeably prevent interference?
Yup. Although it's not worth obsessing over - Any shielded cable should be fine. If you're still getting interference, you can use braided coax cable...basically the cable TV cables that we all used to use that have both shielding and foil. Then just use the opposite adapter on the console side - A coax to RCA.
...and if THAT still doesn't reduce the interference, I'd look into composite video mods.
I don't see any other option as an upgrade to RF. You can't upgrade perfection, daddy!
I did this as a kid, but backwards. I just blew my savings on a Playstation 1 and my old TV had no component input.
Are there any standalone RF demodulators you recommend?
There’s one from Sony that was used with PVM’s that’s pretty good. Steve from Retro Tech did a video on it.
I'm in the UK (Pal region) and have a VCR with scart output so I assume it'd work the same way with the 2600 connected to RF input and the VCR scart output to Retrotink 2x Scart?
Almost all PAL VCR’s output composite video over SCART, not RGB. So it won’t work with a TINK 2xSCART.
Got it thanks.@@RetroRGB
If I were to VCR Record, would I need a multisystem VCR to record both NTSC (pal60) and PAL?
Yes. Although it may be cheaper to get two VCR’s, one for each.
@@RetroRGB this might be a bit hard for space
Is it okay to use a Y cable for composite video as long as I don't power the 2 consoles at the same time? I mean, there is no need to have both turned on, and I am only doing this temporarily, as buying video switches is next to impossible in my country.
Nope. Even powered off, the termination is still there. Good question though.
@@RetroRGB Noted. I'll have to dig around for any kind of video switch whatsoever, this search has taken too many years for me. Thanks for the answer!
did that 30 years ago.
had a tv without inputs. VCR did the trick.
Or just plug the RF in the back. Surprised that isn't the answer. I see antenna's 4k single.
Plugging the RF directly into a CRT is fine - But plugging it directly into a flat panel’s RF is just as bad as connecting composite video directly to a flat-panel.
Most european have scart, but the VCR's scart-out only takes the signal from the VCR's scart-in connector. RF-in (aerial port) only goes to RF-out. So no splitting the signal. My guess european VCR's where equiped with Scart around early 90s. ANYONE knows european VCR's with composite-out exist? i can't find any.... Or has a list with brands and/or types?
Bob, can you please do a video comparing a VHS deck and a SVHS deck + TBC using a home video?
I don't know if I should spend $1000 on a SVHS VCR to improve quality for home videos.
Definitely do not spend $1000. I spent $125 on one with S-Video output and it's amazing. I'll follow-up soon, but my solutions will not be that expensive.
@@RetroRGB Thanks. I think spending over 250$ would not justify the video quality difference for the home videos. Some forums were advising get a SVHS deck with TBC. Most of those on ebay run up to 500$ or more. Then you have to worry about recapping it / maintenance. By the time you are done it is close to 1000$. No one has uploaded a comparison video showing SVHS svideo vs VHS composite just for home video recording/playback.
I don't mean to be weird, but have you been losing weight? Looking good dude.
That’s not weird, I appreciate the compliment. Yup, been on a mild diet since September. Very slow but steady results.
@@RetroRGBgood job Bob!
in the 90s i never even know the difference lol. RF was fine
Would it be possible to do the opposite and use a VCR to play something with VCA on a tv that only has an RF input
I've done it before. It works.
Yup. I show this in the video.
@@RetroRGBthank you
I was wondering what would happen if instead of putting the RF connection to the VCR, what would happen if you connect it directly to the back of a modern tv? Those ports are still there.
It's exactly like if you connect composite video directly - Very bad: czcams.com/video/TdfFnR-hOK8/video.html
@@RetroRGB I definitely missed a word or two. I meant on newer TVs, but I think you got what I meant. The signal would look terrible still I guess.
Not just look bad, be REALLY laggy. Definitely check out that other video for all the details.
Can someone help me connect an original Japanese Famicom (RF only) to a NTSC TV?
I have 4 CRTs, and 2 VCRs, and none of them tune to channel 95/96, which is what I gather would be equivalent to Japanese channel 2/3.
My question is, would connecting the Famicom to the RF input of the VCR, and running the composite out (from the VCR) to the TV work, or do I still need a device that can tune to channel 95/96?
If none of my CRT TVs/VCRs list a channel 95/96, would their "Auto-Tune" function maybe sync up with the Famicom regardless, or am I out of luck?
I show this exact scenario in the video
@@RetroRGB Hey Rob! Thanks for the response (and all of the lit content); I watched the entire video before asking the question, and was still unclear whether a Famicom in NA needs to be tuned to channel 95/96 when input to a VCR, (then output via the VCR's composite) which is why I asked (seems like the answer is yes).
Regardless, I discovered that my Sony Trinitron (WEGA) and Samsung CRT both have a channel search function, which after finishing, "added" higher channels (like 95/96), that weren't present before when manually scrolling through the channels. Quality of RF in Toronto on channel 95/96 is terrible unfortunately (but acceptable on 3 and 4 for NTSC consoles), so I'll begin going through all of the recommendations you laid out in the video to see if I can improve the video and keep it stock (RCA cable with coax adapter, recapping Famicom, etc).
In short, your content has been an amazing source for me personally in navigating the retrogaming audio visual realm - thank you for everything Rob!
I always wondered why standalone RF demodulators seem to be practically nonexistent. I’d probably rather have that in a permanent setup than an otherwise useless VCR
wow, so some VCRs does read the 240p signal as 240p and not 480i?!
All VCR’s just read it as 15KHz - They don’t care about 240p/480i. It’s only when the signal is converted from analog to digital does it matter.
@@RetroRGB TIL, thank you!
My 2600 RF signal was really bad so I wrapped the cable in aluminum foil and it cleaned up the signal. So that is another cheap hack for bad signal.
Love it :)
22:10 yeah that is annoying!
I used to connect my Famicom this way until I modded it.
My VCR takes in RGB scart from a wii and a mega drive, which plays everything standard def to wii perfectly. My atari 2600 has RF passthrough to it when you change the tv to the right channel too!
"I got this one by asking a few friends..."
What a SHAM
Bob doesn't have friends
An rca cable 1:51 ( with adaptor) is not braided like an RF cable so likely to pick up interference
You’re probably right, but all RF boxes just have basic shielded cables. And the Atari 2600 has a basic RCA cable built in. And that comparison I did with the “good” and “bad” 2600 all used the same RCA cable. So I’m sticking to my recommendation.
I had to do this with my 360 until like 2010. Looked like crap and cut sides of the screen off
Well, the Xbox 360 was really never designed to work through composite video. Very cool that you used this as a workaround, but I'd only recommend it for consoles that don't have native composite video, like the ones I showed in the video.
I want to add a couple things here to help anyone with the issue. I tried NES and Genesis auto switchers with my Atari 2600, and it was so bad, so blurry and interference, totally unusable. Someone online told me not to use auto switcher with Atari, something about wrong voltage or wrong resistance, wrong something or other. i got the straight adapter with a good shielded rca cable and crystal clear perfectiopn. My other experience was I used a cheap knock off Snes composite cable, i figured they all the same pretty much. It had some nasty scrolling interference. not too too bad, but noticeably not as good as I would want. So I tried the RF, and it wass actuallyt incredible, my RF looked BETTER BY FAR than my crappy composite cable. It felt dirty but hey it was better! long aog though and since I got HD retrovision cables they are truly the bomb yo. So yeah RF can look better, try both if you have both and see, people.
I always thought it was dumb that they did let you pass stereo thew rf back in the 90's you always had to run video to the tv or stereo
This probably has to do with the licensing and hardware needed to encode MTS sound (used in North America). Radio Shack did briefly make an RF modulator (model number 2525) that had this capability. Otherwise I think your only option is professional equipment.
I will never bother with RF for as long as I live to be quite honest. If I can’t get RGB, Component or S-Video from a console, I won’t bother with it or will alternatively play it with FPGA or emulation.
If you really want your rf consoles to shine, simply connect it to your CRT. Trust me it really works. This is also the solution to every video on the channel :)
rf is available on flat pannels
Remember the part of the video where I said never connect a classic console directly to a flat-panel? And remember I linked to a video that explains why? Did you watch the video, or just comment based on the thumbnail?
Where the hell am I supposed to find a VCR though?! 🤨
I played my systems like this when I was a kid...don't want to do that ever again! It works but it's such poor quality.
Did you actually watch the video, or just comment based on the thumbnail?
Watching video now...Mark from Classic Game Room used to record his Atari 2600 footage in a similar way in his early years.
Either never knew or didn't remember the Atari combined power and signal 🫨. If you find an Super VHS , they can be worth serious money. Great video!
I did that back in the 90’s to play my N64 🥹