Bizarre rule has Verdugo safe even though he missed the bag, a breakdown
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- čas přidán 8. 08. 2021
- #bluejays #redsox
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Jays' fan here, I actually don't mind the call. I'd rather have Verdugo miss the base and be called safe than breaking Gurriel's ankle.
And winning the game doesn’t hurt either
I'm happy to see them in the Dome again.
Agreed, and at the end of the day, it was obstruction. The right call was made, even if an odd rule got to it.
That's what happened to Tim Hudson on the Braves. Complete accident by both people but a bad outcome.
right?
I know it’s not the rule, but in this case it SHOULD be called obstruction for safety reasons. In order to step on first, Verdugo would have had to step over the first baseman’s calf. if Verdugo misses, he could end up stepping on the first baseman, cleating him and surely injuring him
It seems ridiculous that, as the rule is written, the 1st baseman can obstruct as long as hes touching the base. That doesnt make any sense.
yes, this was Type 1 obstruction by rule, I wouldn't hesitate to call it. The wording in the obstruction rule for determining if the fielder is in the act of fielding is, in the judgment of the umpire, if the fielder "MUST occupy his position" [emphasis added] in order to field the thrown ball (OBR 6.01(h) Comment). It's tough to argue that the fielder MUST have his leg and foot completely blocking the front of 1B in order to field a ball thrown behind 1B.
Yeah, the ump just missed this one, even though it didn’t matter. A first basemen who is blocking the path to the base CAN be called for obstruction - up to umpires judgement sort of - but in this case it was really weird because they both missed the bag.
It would have been a lot simpler if the umpire just ruled obstruction on the 1B, since that’s the whole reason the runner missed the bag to begin with - but it’s a really weird play and the ump probably was still digesting whether he was safe/out since it was close
@@nathanpapp432 yeah. Normally the rule is that a fielder cannot obstruct the base unless they have the ball, but in this case it just creates way too many opportunities for dbags like machado to “accidentally” injure a first baseman
Machado would've stepped on his leg .. no problemo :D
Huge props to the ump for the immediate safe call - the runner missed the bag so badly, he had to be calling safe based on this rule, and he had it correct very quickly.
Great point. I get pissed at umpires at lot, but you have to give credit where credit is due.
I think the ump just didn't see that he missed the bag because there is no way he could have remembered this rule.
@@xaviernelson4298 Pretty easy to remember since a similar thing happened a few weeks at ago at home plate. They all probably brushed up on their appeal rule knowledge.
I cant give him too much credit though, that was as bad of an obstruction no call that I've seen in a long time. I think he got confused honestly and thats when there was the timid safe call. He didnt know what the hell he just saw...
@@jlcashen obstruction comes with the appeal about him missing the bag. The obstruction didn't imped the runner passing first, it kept him from stepping on first. So if the missed bag appeal happened, obstruction would cancel the outcome. Resulting in safe at first.
Been watching baseball for 30 years no idea how there is still rules I’ve never heard of or seen haha
Same. Came here the comment what you already said.
i swaer they make up rules throughout the yr or on the fly LOOL Jays v Rangers back in 2015 was also fd
Because you probably never actually played
@@MrMikeyboy4 not our fault that you have failed to actually read the rule book 🤷🏼♂️
okay mr crusty old creepy dude
baseball is full of so many strange, seemingly counterintuitive rules. you gotta love it
Not if you're a fan in the stands waiting half an hour for each call to get figured out and wait till you get home to know what for! Lol but yeah, its a beautifully strange passtime
That why is the best sport, every day happen something diferent
You gotta hate it
Baseball, the most exciting five hours in all of sports _- David Letterman._
That's why we need jomboy to help us through it if we aren't fans of the sport
It seems like a huge safety hazard to make the runner touch 1st when the 1st baseman is blocking it.
That's why he's safe from obstruction...
@@jeffnowak3144 but they didnt rule for him based on obstruction. They use an obscure rule instead.
@@jeffnowak3144 he was safe because there was no appeal. Had there been an appeal he would have been out. I think thats wrong. You're begging for an injury if he has to step on the base weird because its being blocked
@@AirtimeThrills , the runner does not have to touch first base if he is avoiding a collision! So an appeal is not going to change this call.
@@stevehamman4465 I'm just saying what Jomboy said on the video
might be the weirdest rule i ever heard to date
Freakin kuya wil.. 🤣🤣 been seing you watching jomboy videos lately… cant blame you this guy is funny as hell.. pa shout naman sa next na video kuya 😅.. stay safe kuya wil..
I still think that a dropped strike three allowing the batter to advance is the weirdest rule (that I know of) in all of sports.
@@pyrobryan I actually like that rule, but I'll go even further on your point. Dropped 3rd strike and 1st is occupied, batter runner is out, EXCEPT when there are two outs.... Why does it make a difference? Who the hell knows. That one always irks me.
It was obstruction.
@@alexdaniel3530 If the third strike is dropped, with a runner is on 1st and two outs, then the fielder can go to 1st or 2nd for a forced out to end the inning. If no outs or one out, then the fielder could potentially double-up on the play. Do you think the distinction between number of outs is to prevent intentionally dropping the third strike to get a double play?
You can tell Gurriel Jr. isn’t an every day first baseman😅
Ya. He is fine when Vladdy isn't playing or is DH but he should stick to left field in any other case
🍍
As a Jays fan I am sitting here wondering why the hell he was playing first
Fr why was his body to the left when the throw was to his right 😂the entire wasn’t even bad
Lmao for real...his foot placement, the way he keeps both feet anchored deep into the earth and his strange catch and pose worthy of the game of twister
Just waiting for you to get that call Angel did yesterday calling Cardinals out on balls and swings on no swings.
That's a really great one Jimmy needs to do a breakdown of Angel sucking that much
I was so frustrated yesterday
@@Jason-hb3gn I am a royals fan, the moment I saw Angel behind the plate in the first inning I knew something was going to happen in that game to get an jomboy
@@henrymorphew318 I'm a Royals fan too, and when they were talking after he called Nolan out saying "that's Angel Hernandez" I was like fuck Angel Hernandez
@@henrymorphew318 I was at the game and when they announced the umpires and I saw Angel walk out and heard he was at home plate I was joking with the folks with me that we are going to see some shitty calls. Like 4 pitches in and someone behind home was screaming "call a strike Angel!" It was great. I was chilling right behind the royals dugout. It was an excellent ball game from the players, but the strikes/ball calls were crazy.
The rain delay sucked, but hearing that thunder from inside the concourse was pretty awesome.
I was trying to read the ump's lips when I was watching it live and failed miserably. Jomboy does it like it's nothing.
I think he has an audio feed also
Being able to slow it down doesn’t hurt either
He does have the benefit of replaying it multiple times and slowing it down. But some people are definitely better at it than others.
Slo-Mo is a thing in 2021……
Slow mo Ilyan. Slow mo. Let's go mustard. Time to ketchup.
The real question here is how was Gurriel that far out of position on a double play ball hit to third? That is the play that a first baseman has more time to get into position than any other.
Gurriel isn’t a natural 1b, jays moving guys around but yup lol
I’m guessing you can count the number of games he has at 1st on one hand lol
@@ianzellick4980 Two hands, and it is one hand if you just count starts, so not far off.
Maybe his big brother should give him some lessons in the off-season.
He's lucky his career didnt end right there. Perfect position to turn his ankle into so many shards of bone he'd be using a crutch the rest of his life.
Without this rule, it's 100% obstruction. He's a first baseman, not a goalie.
Agreed on the obstruction. The hop from Verdugo is the behavior to encourage instead of risking either or both of them getting injured.
So if the 1st baseman had appealed, and the ump had rejected the appeal, then replay could have overturned the rejection of the appeal and Verdugo would've been called out. I think that's what you're saying.
But then could the Red Sox challenge the overturn and argue the obstruction at that point?
that is correct
@@davej3781 wait, his summation is correct or my question?
I think it would have been called out if he appealed. Then they would have replayed the situation and he would have been safe for interference
that's baseball! haha
I wonder how many actual MLB players watch a breakdown from Jomboy that includes them and or their team but just stays hush hush
I wonder how many MLB teams include Jomboy in their film study. Come here, guys, here's one I didn't know. Let's all learn.
Verdugo caught up with the Jomboy team to give them feedback of their previous breakdown on him getting hit in the back with the ball at Yankee stadium. The players are definitely watching
Yeah Verdugo definitely does, he’s a friend of the show and I believe JomBoy has had him around on the podcast before.
@@coramoor3 MLB teams actually hire rules analysts for just this sort of thing. Often, the analyst will have quite a few teams that he works for, and he'll send out a email with weird rules, rulings if plays that happened recently (and similar plays that have happened in the past), etc.
verdugo is in so many of these breakdowns 😂😂
Got to hand it to the umpires for handling this so well. Got the call right and explained it clearly and kept everyone cool even with a counter intuitive outcome.
being a Jays fan watching this live hop in the interwebs to see the "professional" breakdowns and immediately seen multiple "Gonna need a Jomboy breakdown on this" then next day wake up to see an upload from probably my fav YT channel Internet Today and RickyFTW was rocking the Jomboy shirt! Was loving seeing you blowup man! keep up the AWESOME work!!!
That "Appeal" thing is how cricket works. You basically have to ask the umpire every time if its out. That means hypothetically (and it has happened many times), the batter could have edged the ball and be caught behind out, but if only the umpire saw it, he won't give him out because someone has to appeal.
I don't know why this rule exists, I'm sure there's a particular reason. The easiest solution is that it's a simple obstruction. Verdugo was in the runners lane, and he was being obstructed by the 1st baseman. If the runner is on the infield side of the 1st base line, then there is no obstruction. But since he was in the lane on the outside of the line he as a right to that space and should be awarded 1st base on the obstruction.
My immediate thought was that the basic rule seems to be to prevent the first basemen from trying to get outs (or fake out) away from first base.
Which sorta reminds me of the infield fly rule which tries to prevent defensive “shenanigans”.
So I’m wondering if it’s either a safety issue (by preventing the first baseman from trying to tag a runner in front of the first base by blocking the path and setting up a football style tackle situation), or if there’s some sort of trick play ala an infielder letting an easy fly drop to try and catch two runners out, and this rule came out to prevent it.
completely incorrect, the runners lane has nothing to do with this play. yes, it is true that the first baseman obstructed the runner, which is a violation of 6.01(h)(1); this has zero to do with the running lane (5.09(a)(11)) which comes into play ONLY if the runner is out of the lane AND interferes with the fielder taking the throw at first base.
however obstruction was not actually called, and wasn't necessary for the runner to be safe. the runner missed the base, but returned immediately and touched it before the defense could appeal; the first baseman inadvertently touching 1B while getting up is not an appeal; appeals must be intentional and unmistakable, you can't accidentally appeal; you also can't later appeal a base the runner missed when he is now standing on it.
If I had to guess, it probably has to do with the allowance that runners to first are also allowed to overrun the base.
Running lane is NOT relevant to this play. It’s not obstruction because the fielder has to move to take the throw.
@Tejesh Patel why would or should this rule be any different because of TV or replay?
Verdugo would have easily been safe if his foot wasn’t blocking it
It was obstruction.
@@thebrazilianatlantis165 jump dude. You missed the point. He was safe regardless because he would have beat the throw anyway. The throw wasn't close.
Yeah, oddly once the rule is explained, I'm kinda into it. You just have to be heads up as a first baseman to immediately appeal to the ump to initiate the rule and have it go into effect. It's funky, but also a cool keep that one on your back pocket rule for when it happens to eeww and ahhh at. Life's a grind. This mixes it up. I don't get out much. I'll take it.
This feeds the belief that you can learn something new everyday… TIL
It was obstruction.
You can learn something new everyday...about obscure mlb rules.
love these break downs. youre the best.
The MLB should have Ump's explain to the fans what the ruling was similar to how the NFL does it with microphones. Would make these things a lot more clear!
Yes! I've been saying that for 2 decades!
They were gonna do that two years ago, then the pandemic happened, and for some reason that was disqualifying. Why it didn't happen this year? I have no idea.
They were going to do that but scrapped the plans last year
@@AAli220 Why did they scrap it? They seriously need to do that!
They do that in Japan (NPB). Seems like a good idea in MLB as well.
Even if he were called out, I feel like obstruction would have made him safe after review.
Actually impressed with the umping here. So many bad calls this year nice to see good calls actually supported by the rulebook
Thank you Jomboy, much love
Oh that's amazing. I learn so much new info from Jomboy
You know it's going to be a good day when jomboy post
It bad day
As a first baseman who sometimes has to catch the ball headed for the runners head, safety comes first. Thanks Jomboy for your expert memorable breakdowns!
Assuming that the batter runner isn't in the running lane, let it plink him. Runners lane interference is on the catch, not the throw, so if BR keeps you from catching it, it should be a free out.
@@JPINFV 👆he's right and second, HIPinvestor, that throw was in the dirt. What safety are you talking about? That's an inexperienced first baseman if I've ever saw one. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night 😂😂😂
Utterly fascinating. Thank you for clearing this up.
Ever time I think I'm getting the hang of this sport, something like this comes along.
I like to imagine the Ump told Montoyo as he was walking up “dude this is a weird ass rule don’t get mad at me”
I'm waiting for that breakdown.
Wondering if jomboy is going to breakdown the ball girl that laid out a fan
You never know what you're gonna see when you get out to see a ball game.
@@dansawyer4332 The ball girls never cease to impress!
Right here:
czcams.com/video/SEupVXfp5-k/video.html
I saw this live and was really hoping for a breakdown. This is great.
Was at the game. When I saw the big screen all the fans (including me) knew he was out. When they said the call standed everybody thought the call was wrong for missing the base. Now the call makes sense watching this 👍🏼
I wonder why the first baseman is in that spot in the first place. Usually with 1st and 2nd you're playing behind the runner, then covering first on a grounder. Should have had plenty of time and he would have caught the throw no problem.
He's not an everyday or even backup first basemen, still though you would think baseball players would all know how to play first
I was at this game, we got no explanation just the rogers centre announcer going "the call stands at first base, the runner is safe at first"
Yeah I was there too, it was pretty confusing
They should give umpires microphones to explain the ruling after video review like in the NFL
@@jackh8561 Yes! I've been saying this for over 2 decades!
I was watching the game (I live in Boston) and we basically got the same explanation as you did. The NESN announcers had no idea why and they said that MLB should be like the NFL and have microphones to explain something like this.
@@jimc7445 I live in the DC area and the Nats' announcers have said that multiple times too over the years.
This channel just made me love baseball again thank you
One of the primary reasons I watch your channel… Superb research
Kind of makes sense in the same line of thinking as overrunning first being a thing.
Craziest part aren't these obscure rules. It's that refs/umps and rule people on review remember them enough to enforce them.
Good call by the umpires. I like this rule
One of your better breakdowns on weird plays/rules. Bringing up the actual rule and sticking to explaining it was informative, but you still kept it entertaining without string the pot.
Thanx for all the video breakdowns, I am 65 years old and you have enlightenment me on many runs I never knew, Thank You much, 😉
Semien would end up walking off with a one pitch home run
The rule Jimmy referenced was in the case of catcher interference, so I'm not sure how that applies here.
This is simple baseball 101. The runner was called safe. Regardless of what rule is set in place here (first baseman wasn't touching the base) safe was the call. The runner is no longer a force out. He must be tagged. The same while/after a base is stolen. The same if there's a pickle. The same if it's a hit for a double/triple.
I'm shocked at how this has gone over so many people's heads.
I think "catcher" here refers to the person catching the ball. Catcher as an action, not catcher as a position.
The awesome thing about baseball is that you can always learn more about the game. So many things that happen maybe once or twice a season in the whole MLB.
Jomboy, I really enjoy your videos. Great commentary. You have a great on air voice as well. This is an interesting rule. Great video. Keep them coming.
is anyone else impressed by how well Jomboy reads lips? It gets me every time...
Verdugo- Am I safe?
Umpires- Well no, but actually yes
Bro he posted this video and I clicked on it instantly and when it was done you comment was already posted. You were quick 😂😂😂💯
Never saw that before. Thanks for making this vid. I learned something new.
I hate watching baseball but you made me love it! Been subbed for about 4 weeks! Great content!!!
The only time ever that the umps where right, and everyone else is wrong.
Umps are quite right on rule calls much more than any fan
@@bryanm255 I was being a bit facetious.
Go over the double play the Giants vs Brewers had on Sunday where escobar got called out for not touching 2nd or something? Don’t really understand what happened.
Great analysis. This is why i watch your channel.
I’m glad he makes videos about these things
Seems counterintuitive to force the first baseman to appeal the runner touching first when he's going to be looking away from the bag 99.99% of the time.
Yeah I agree. The first baseman is not looking at the bag when the ball is thrown at him. The umpire (who is actually looking at the bag) calls the running safe. How would any first baseman know if the runner did not touch the base? Maybe he should just appeal every time, so we can slow this game down even more.
If they made missing first an automatic out, I'm sure there would be freak plays where the rule makes no sense. Like the throw ends up in the third row and the guy is called out and everyone is like "Why can't he just go back and touch the base?"
I feel like MLB needs to go over the rules and re-do them, and Umps should get some kind of repercussion when they make some kind of stupid calls not that I'm saying this was a bad call or anything but I think the rules are outdated and need to be fixed up
They do just about every year, mostly making it safer for the players. And umpires can be sent down to the minors.
Thank You... fascinating
This rule is more often seen on a play where a player misses the base on their way to the next base. Imagine a gap shot where the batter runner attempts to stretch it into a double. On his way past first, he misses the bag. Once he has passed the bag, he is considered to have obtained it, unless the defense properly appeals the missed bag. This allows the defense (if they are paying attention) to get an out on the play, but it also allows the offense to correct their mistake (if they are paying attention), or to gamble and try to get the next bag at the risk of the defense having paid attention.
The rule isn't that bizarre. It happens fairly often, especially at home.
Not quite the same though. The ump shouldn't make a safe or out ruling at home when the plate is missed, vs the ump here calling safe even though he knew the bag was missed by at least the runner.
My thoughts exactly. This doesn't seem like news to me, although it is rare that the rule is relevant.
@@LucianDevine , The runner does NOT have to touch first base if he is avoiding a collision!! The runner missed the bag avoiding a collision and BEAT the throw. The umpire called him safe because he beat the throw. Obstruction is a delayed dead ball so no need to call it.
@@stevehamman4465 I know,. I was referring to the mention from the OP about it happening at home.
Right call made for the technically right reason that feels all sorts of wrong. If they had called interference I would be OK. But this is just weird man.
Robert B , obstruction is a delayed dead ball,, the runner beat the throw so basically it didn't happen. This was the correct call. It allows play to continue. Like if there was a runner on third and the ball got past the first baseman runner on third could score. If the umps don't get the rules right , the manager can play under protest.
Big props to Jomboy for the accurate insight. I'm usually a critic but I'll gladly insert foot in mouth if this continues.
I love when you break down these bizzar rules 👍
Didn't miss the bag, bag was blocked , Jays player lucky he didn't get stepped on like he was asking for. Can't block the bag
And this is why they have this rule !!!
You've made a bit of a mess of this one. 5.05(b) is
"The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when:"
Then clause (3) is
"The catcher or any fielder interferes with him."
So that IS interference. It literally says so in the rule.
Yeah he's referencing a clause of the catcher interference rule here. Rare miss from Jomboy.
Excellent work.
Help I cant stop watching these
I love being an umpire, I knew what happened after watching my Jays in live time. Weird play but does make sense once you think about it
Interesting ruling on that thanks for covering this
Jomboy NEEDS to become an ESPN rules commentator. Dead serious.
I learn more from Jomboy than I do from school.
Thanks to Jomboy for the continued education.
I was watching this at work and I was screaming when I saw the call
"I saw two sides on the internet and neither one was right".
Quote of the century man
You always teach us something, JOMBOY!!! 👍⚾🏜️
Nice to see umps handle it this well. they did a great job with the call and talking with the coaches
"well yeah it's obstruction how is this bizarre" "....oh"
As a former first basemen I would have assumed I interfered and he was safe if I accidentally blocked the bag. Weird rules, always something to learn about baseball lol.
Hehe I correctly predicted Jomboy doing a breakdown on this. :D This was totally Jomboy material.
Watching this live, I was so freakin confused. Even Buck and Pat were like.... they got that wrong. But wouldn't you know it, they didn't. Nice break down Jomboy. Really appreciate it.
Pat and Buck are clueless homer shills, who would not know their heads from their asses. Listen to the radio feed, where there is actually some semblance of understanding the rules and the game, and not being just a shill. It is so nice when the games are also on Local American TV so you can listen to professional broadcasters, who are not totally biased, like the Mets crew.
ADORE you, Jomboy. I am new to baseball ~ learn so much from you and am always entertained. Correct English is: neither IS the case. Sent with love, from Canada.
Truly bizarre and interesting rule, great breakdown. I was today years old when I learned this.
I literally never watch baseball, but I watch every Jomboy video. 🤣
That’s a dangerous move by the first baseman.
This had to happen before. There is no way someone came up with this rule in their head. It happened once before, decided the ruling, then added to the rulebook.
Good shit Alex!!!
I have watched a lot of baseball and I have never heard of the rule until now. Amazing!!!
Jomboy misinterpreted the rule.
Umpires are really good at plays like this. They have to know all the crazy rules like this and they usually they are spot on. They just need to automate the strike zone.
It does help that they can now consult with a video room, and a rule book off the field, which is why the league was able to get rid of protesting games (that’s a good thing). But I’m pretty sure the ump knew this already onfield, since he was probably already aware Verdugo missed the bag.
Great definition of what happened here, by the rule. Thanks
We used to appeal stuff all the time when I was playing. Almost never did anything but wild to think about it making a difference even with replay.
It’s nuance like this that makes baseball and fantasy baseball the best sports ball game ever.
I rarely actually watch baseball live but I did happen to see this one and I was wondering if Jomboy was gonna talk about this part
"I saw two sides on the internet and neither side was right" thats just pretty much how you explain the internet in general
jomboy blue jays breakdowns are my bread and butter
ive watched probably a billion hours of baseball in my life and i swear something new that i never knew could happen in baseball seems to happen every week
Finally a breakdown of a game I was actually at.
This is perplexing and leaves open a strategy where the first baseman blocks the bag on close plays then knowingly tags the base when the runner flies by without touching it.
That manager should be on the Rules committee.
Thank you for this breakdown! I find it stupid that we don't get a reasonable explanation during the broadcast like in every other sport. Even the broadcasters are left trying to figure it out for themselves. Gotta wait for Jomboy to tell it like it is.
with most other sports the announcers seem to have a much better understanding of the rules than baseball announcers; I don't know why that is.