Why Many People Fail at Language Learning
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
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Most language learners fail. They may pass their exams but they fail to learn to speak the language they are learning, which is generally the goal. Maybe it's time to change the goal.
0:00 - Most high school graduates cannot speak the language they have been studying for years.
1:38 - Did these students fail at language learning?
3:30 - Schools should emphasize comprehension over speaking in a new language.
5:50 - If there is a solid base of comprehension, the speaking will come.
7:02 - We need realistic expectations for language learning in schools.
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Why do so many language learners fail to learn to speak. To a large extent it is because they have few opportunities to speak, and when they get those opportunities, they don't understand what is said. Maybe the goal of language instruction should be comprehension, rather than speaking.
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Steve, it isn't about speaking opportunities. It's all about "meaning" and activating the body for meaning. We need to listen to, want to, understand the sounds and body that begs us to do so. This is the ONLY way. Memory, it is a trap door. You will think you understand but you just remember. Language is not remembered. But let's have a discussion if you have some time, would like to elaborate. It is true, so many of MFL students don't every learn the language they've learned. Weird, as you say.
many language learners fail to learn to speak because they look for short cuts the past of least resistance and to just pass the test and have the diploma. They are not in love with the language with the intention to use it regularly. they cheat with the whole plan of language learning It is like having a romance with the language and those who speak it That is how I do it. I pick attractive ladies who teach various languages and fall in love with them, I am watching this now. czcams.com/video/px1lMnnn_-4/video.html
Greetings from a beautiful village of Iran near to the Caspian sea, I
Maybe you should look at it from the other end of the spectrum and ask yourself why so many teachers fail at language instruction ? As you have observed in many of your videos that studying a language is not the same as learning how to communicate in a language, maybe its also the quality of instruction and of instructors. Consider that children do not normally have the drive and self discipline to deliberately learn a language like an adult would. They absolutely need a different level of instruction than an adult would need, changing the approach would change the outcome, but we all know this is not going to happen!
Very well said Steve. Just hearing your enthusiasm is so inspirational it's kept me wanting to learn more and more and as you put not failing because you're enjoying it. Currently actively pursuing Spanish. All my life I've always wanted to speak it well now with all this encouragement and the tools through device I can actively learn it without as you said ever having to travel to Spanish speaking countries.
My native language is greek, when I'm listening to english I can understand a 100% without even trying. But because I'm not using it for my verbal communication my speaking ability is around 20% compare to my listening and reading level. I think this is perfectly fine and a total success for my use case. We need to be realistic. Now i'm learning japanese. I would be extremely happy if my japanese listening and reading levels will reach my english counterparts. And i would be pretty ok If i can't speak that well because I know I won't use it to communicate verbally as often.
Im trying to learn Greek myself 🇬🇷💙🤍
@@Emrys91 Oh that's nice! Good luck with your journey! May I ask you where are you from??
I don't know if it was Steve or someone else who said it was more important to understand than to speak because you can always learn things while listening and have a good time at a party or at the movies, even if you speak very little, because all you have to do is listen. That, and you can find ways to say what you want in a roundabout way. Like if you can't remember the word for "gym," you can say "the place I go to run" or you can just mime lifting weights and someone will provide the word for you. But if you don't understand what someone is asking or talking about, any words you know won't do you any good.
I've heard people say that once they had good reading and/or listening comprehension, their speaking took off like a rocket once they started to practice it regularly. As in they could speak fluently in just a few months.
It's totally okay. With our native language we do the same. You can understand everything in your native language but you always use just particular vocabulary that you get used to it.
@@SaiyanJin85 thanks 😊 and I'm from Leicester Englang
I totally agreed ! Just sharing my lifetime experience here:
1. ENGLISH - I was brought up in an English school hence my English was fairly good already. However, when I went to the UK to study, I realized I could only understand 70% of what my teachers were saying. When time passed and with everyday listening and speaking, I was able to understand 100%. My English fluency is now 95%.
2. Before I went to work in (hotels) in China, I could hardly converse in Mandarin. But with literally hundreds of interactions with people everyday, I managed to learn to listen and speak. After having worked in China in subsequent years, now I have no problem in understanding and conversing in Mandarin. I would say my fluency is now 95%.
3. FRENCH - I learned French in Alliance Francaise for 1.5 years many years back and have reached intermediate level. I quit because intermediate level was mostly grammar and I felt absolutely bored, despite the fact that all classes in Alliance Francaise were taught in French, and NO English. The teaching method was not great at all and now with so many channels in You Tube where one can learn to listen and practice, it is so much more useful. I was lucky to have worked with a few French colleagues in hotels so at least I had the chance to listen to their conversations. But the reality is, without the chance to speak and practice often, I found my French has not improved. Now I listen to many podcasts in You Tube and found my level has improved but of course, still has a long way to go. Having said that, I had been to France a few times and I found myself able to survive as a tourist.
CONCLUSION: Listen, listen, speak, speak, practice and practice. THANK YOU,
This. The thing I noticed, just for myself, it's much more effective to learn how to listen and recognize the language and somewhat speak it conversely. And then learn grammar afterwards to polish your speech and reading comprehension.
I believe the main reason we fail in language learning is the unrealistic goals we set on ourselves of being able to speak any language in a short span of time. This is magical thinking. Language learning takes time and motivation. I've managed to learn Spanish, Italian, German and currently working on learning Russian by enjoying the process and not setting rigid, unrealistic time constraints. If the language will take more than a year for me to hold an adequate conversation with a native of that language, then so be it.
Through language learning you unlock and open the door to that language's culture, history, people, food, music, poetry.
Take your time and most importantly enjoy the process. After Russian, I plan to include Romanian and Turkish to my portfolio.
My daughter studies Japanese at school here in Australia and has done it now for 5 years. She always gets an A or A-plus but would struggle to have more than a one minute conversation with a Japanese person. In all the time she has studied the language I think they have spoken to an actual Japanese people on three occasions with the rest of the time just regurgitating words and phrases over and over again to get a pass mark. Of course that is the same in each subject she studies from maths to science so I'm not sure it's a problem specific to language - more that it is specific to a very broken school system that is driven only by marks rather than results.
Kid brain are far better to acquire languages
There's an elephant in the room, though: regular schools have very little language instruction per week and, in general, the school system is grade-centric more than it is knowledge-focused. If she was following the very same curriculum, but in an intensive fashion (at least a couple of hours a day) and at her own volition (i.e., marks don't matter, the actual outcome does), she'd be speaking a lot better by now.
@@Limemill What you said is true, but it doesn't matter because government schools will never be able to implement the sort of system you described.
@@sleepsmartsmashstress740 That's a common misconception. (Full disclosure: I'm a full-time EFL teacher at a children's school in South Korea that implements English into a lot of its curriculum.) Children aren't magically better at learning foreign languages than adults are; in fact, the opposite is true. If you were somehow able to quit working, go to school full-time, and have no serious responsibilities in life other than school (as children do), any adult with even average intelligence would achieve language-learning results far better and much faster than even the brightest young child. Let me say it again: Children don't learn languages better; they simply don't have anything else in life they're responsible for, and this is why they appear to learn languages better than adults. Adults cannot spend anywhere near the amount of time studying foreign languages that children do. They have jobs to work, family members to take care of, food to cook, and the list goes on and on.
@@selohcin it would require a big shift in priorities, yeah. Some smaller nations kinda pulled it off though (think Finland and its school system, for example)
I was fortunate enough to have been raised in a quadrilingual environment. I have been studying 3 extra languages ( as foreign languages) by myself. Here are my conclusions
1) a language is something you have to study and keep working at til the end. Its a lifestyle. Its not like there is a set amount of information you learn and thats it. I always look up words or some sentences here and there. How do you say this? whats the worst for this? what are the conjugations for this.. How do you build this structure... It just keeps adding up over time.
2)If you want to improve your speaking, you have to speak more. If you want to improve your reading, you have to read more. There isn't a magic pill. The more you do something, the better you get at it. Schools tend to focus kids on their textbooks. Lots of writing and lots of reading, but barely any listening or speaking. I have found that listening and speaking make up 80% of your success. Reading/writing and grammar are things you do as a prep before speaking and listening.
3) Don't confuse "Hours spent" vs " actual work done". In high school i had Spanish but now looking back, my focus was a mere 30%. I was more interested in talking with my friends or drawing than actually learning. The fact that you went to school and had 4 years of German were you pretty much just focused on doing your homework right before class, spent hours looking outside the window waiting for class to be over and answered some textbook questions by cleverly copying the pattern of the example instead of actually trying to learn the concept.
Thats why people say
I had 5 years of German, but i don't know anything.. I suck at language.
I'm very agree with this
Well said
Yes, the "actual work done". But still, people are whining about the amount they spent
Very true. Its a lifestyle. You have to have a love of it.
I would love to see an education system adopt a 'comprehension-first approach' for languages over a period of a few years, so we can compare the results.
I'm studying my fourth language now, and I felt like Steve Kaufmann was speaking directly to me lol 頑張るわ〜！！！
How long did it take you ?
Steve Kaufmann is speaking directly to me not you haha
@@sleepsmartsmashstress740 nah he's speaking to me lol
From what I gather, it's not that Japanese don't have English speakers available to them, they can work in the tourist heavy areas and immerse in English, but most Japanese are culturally afraid of doing mistakes in front of other people or being open to failure in general- and THATS THE MAIN REASON, correct me if I'm wrong Ikemen (Osaka people might be the exclusion).
@@VividAMVs I'm not sure that really is the "MAIN REASON"... for most people, English skills are certainly not that big of a goal that you would choose your work place accordingly.
You're not wrong about the availability thing, though. In most cases, you CAN find people to talk to if you really want to (assuming a certain degree of self-confidence I myself struggled to reach, as well as an internet connection). Conversely, it's often surprisingly easy to not learn a language in spite of being surrounded by it...
Anyway, this isn't just a Japanese phenomenon.
At the same time, though, there definitely are differences from place to place. "Cultural factors" - as vague as they may be - can certainly play a role here. And school "culture" is definitely an important factor here.
I've tested this theory I started learning Portuguese in 2021 and I'm coming up to almost 965 hours of reading, watching, listening, writing, and speaking. I only have tutors for 30 minutes maybe 3 times a week and more recently since learning Russian and French as well I've only had 1 hr classes every 3 weeks more or less and each time I have those classes my tutor is amazed at my progress and pronunciation and expanding vocabulary. Well I've read two novels on LingQ, O Alquimista, and Harry Potter 1 and a bunch of news articles etc. I don't live in a country where Portuguese, French or Russian is spoken but through CZcams, Lingq, Disney + I get enough exposure that when I need to speak those few times I'm ready with the vocabulary. It also takes courage in the sense that I pretty much don't care if I say the wrong thing or what because I know I'd get corrected anyways and then I'd learn a new word.
I started learning Spanish when I was 11 at secondary school, and I more or less just gave it up after taking it at university. Many years later, I've now spent the last 6 months just listening to Spanish songs and audio-visual content in Spanish. If I had known this earlier ( I only discovered this approach after becoming an EFL teacher), I would have been near to fluent/native level in the language by now.
Pero ahora, sigo con la esperanza que, algún día, lo voy dominar ( el español) bien. Sin estresarme o compararme con otras personas.
Mucho ánimo y no dejes de aprender español
Language learning at school is almost always terrible. The situation is similar to what I've experienced in Germany.
We mostly learn English, of course, as well as French, Spanish and, in more traditional schools, Latin. Extremely little of what is being taught is actually retained. After 5 years of Latin, most of my understanding comes not from school, but my own input-based acquisition of Spanish, which of course helps with romance languages.
It also doesn't help that getting good grades means almost nothing, in fact, it gives you false confidence. I've met lots of Germans who had Spanish at school for years, but struggle terribly to watch an episode of Shark Tank Colombia, because they never came in contact with genuine language material.
I wish something would be done for students who want to acquire a language (or, in case of English, have to), but I don't see much coming from the responsible authorities.
Same in Israel, I studied Arabic for 5 years in school and next year is my last, and honestly we only work of Grammar and an unusual vocabulary especially in the Newspaper. That's chiefly it, we have a fundamental comprehension on spoken Arabic rather than speaking it fluently. I don't blame the teachers for that. It's just that the Ministry doesn't care whether we are fluent in the languages we learn or not. It's not like that, just like you said, most of the students focus on goals for high Grade and that's correct. I always get high Grades and gets excited than neglect Arabic for few weeks and come back again. I'm tired of this thing. What can I do? I studied Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, Persian, Korean and German, and just failed in each of them. My goals for languages is high but I waste my time on Anime or Chinese animation... Basically I don't know a thing. 無駄。
As a Western Canadian, I can confirm that my French instruction was ineffective for me. As soon as I could drop French I did, so I only did the mandatory 4 years.
I hated homework, since it invaded my reading time.
I think if I could have known then that I could learn to read in French in a relatively short time, it would have been my best subject, but I graduated in 1999 before the internet got good.
Those who are really keen on succeeding with the language should make a very serious commitment and NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE UP. It may take 4--5 years but you CAN succeed in at least 80% of the cases by making a pledge to allocate one hour each day to fiddle with the language and NEVER CHEAT by skipping. There are notes to the effect that some 96-995% fail with language learning but then the numbers are same with body building, athletics, swimming, quitting smoking, quitting drugs, becoming sober and weight loss etc. Humans are frail minded and the environment does not help. Too many distractions. Not being stressed about not progressing fast enough also helps a lot. Just have faith that some day in future may be 6 years from now there would be some mastery worth having fun with the language. Pursuit of perfection and being able to speak like the natives ever in the life time is sheer stupidity. You are not likely to succeed with that objective and there is no burden to do that either. A stressed brain simply shuts down making learning anything impossible so it is absolutely necessary to be very light minded about learning and not fret nor anticipate failure. Keeping a positive outlook and being hopeful helps. Never admit that you are NEVER Going to be able to learn Mandarin or Japanese. By saying that often enough you guarantee failure to yourself
I think the same happens with other subjects, for example IT or programming, lots of people spend a long time studying just to get a certification, after they get it, all that knowledge fades in less than a week, sometimes one person get several certifications, that may help him the get the job at first, but after that, they are completely unable to move to the next level, mostly due to the lack of a deeper or true comprehension of the basics, they are unable to produce something new or meaningful.
As you said, I do agree that the basics for a good communication in another language is first to have a good comprehension ... if you can read and listen quite well, speaking or writing will come a lot faster and easy once you start practicing it ...
studying just to get a certification does not last Very temporary. they are not in love with the subject and hold it with tongs like a hot piece of coal and transfer it from A to B and then it is all over. Most doctors forget entire medicine, lawyer have no clue of laws and so on
Hi Steve,
That's totally true! And I'd like to add that teacher’s role is not only to teach the language through drills, grammar rules, and vocabulary but to encourage students and create opportunities which help students to put what they have learned into practice, otherwise, they will forget all that they have learned. Language is basketball, it needs practice and if they did not link what they have learned to the real-world situations of course it fades away! We don't forget to mention that a good teacher is the one who gives the language to learners through both focused mode and diffuse mode. I agree with all that you have said and I attended many English classes and unfortunately noticed teachers don't expose student to English and still use L1 in class more than English.
We need to remember practice makes perfect and 80/20 rule explained this. 80% goes on practice and 20% on instructions.
Best,
Mohanad Khaleel
i studied french in school as well as on my own for 2 years, but a majority of my learning was in school. every test, every assignment, i got very high scores. its been almost 2 years since i stopped taking french classes and ive forgotten it all.
i am now studying korean (on my own) and have been for about a year; my korean is infinitely better than my french ever was. I honestly do think that it's because the main language that i hear is korean and i am interested in the korean content i consume.
my plan is to become an english (esl) teacher somewhere and i wanna teach like this. i want the kids i teach to be interested in the language and how they consume, and not worry about making mistakes when speaking, and be able to practice with native speakers because i wish i was taught like that in school.
tldr; just watch the video i fully agree with him
What I initially do is try to gain a good grounding in grammar. Yes I know many people don't like doing that but for me I like logic and to understand patterns. Then I start to consume reading materials, Spanish wikipedia, BBC mundo... I have made many good friends on Hellotalk where we also write and verbally talk.... the only difficult part is listening, since generally spanish is a quickly spoken language (compared to english) and unlike not understanding a word in a piece of text, its not always possible to look up lyrics or captions to hear what was being said........ all that being said however with perseverance, you can notice improvements even in your greatest weakness. In Spanish I can read very well but now im starting to listen better too, as a result of a lot different imput and help from my friends.
I too need to understand the grammar! Otherwise It doesn't make sense to me and I hate to memorise more than I need to.
I bought a Spanish book the third month of my Spanish journey.I had already learned the 1500 most frequently used words for Mexican Spanish and some slang. Now that I am going at French again. I am using the grammar book and I have been procrastinating with learning words on memrise haha. I think I will start using grammar books early on with my following languages as well. All the best to you and may God bless you.
I have been using two extensions which have helped me a lot with my comprehension. Language learning with youtube and language learning with Netflix. you should try them out.
you can click the words to heir their pronunciations and leave the cursor on top of them to see their meanings. You can have double subtitling or just one
Language is like walking vocabulary and grammer are the two legs. You wont get far hopping on one leg. Use both step by step. Build both vocab and grammar together.
My experience in Spain: here we begin studying English at 9 years old, and arrive to University at 18 years old, which means about 9 years studying English, and realize that the majority of those years are in our childhood, where we are supposed to have a "better brain" for languages. Well, reality is that competent authorities just certify for us an A2 level for our English, which is objectively true.
9 years of study to reach an A2 level in English!!!!!!!!!
And of course, we go to a bar and we don't know how to ask for a coffe (literal)
De que pais eres?
Where are u from?
@@user-cs9hd4sb3b España
No quiero ofender pero no hablas el idioma por qué no lo prácticas así como lo dijo Kaufmann?
I've just joined Italki as a teacher & I'd love to help with English conversation and pronunciation. On Italki teacher 8769273, I'm a native English speaker.
@@juanmarcos1145 any one who pretends that English and Spanish are similar enough to make learning easy, probably lives in the states and grows up with both languages.
I feel the same Steve . I grew up in Canada and can’t speak any French besides swear words. With mini stories though , I am now understanding more and more Spanish simply with listening .
Como estan las cosas por allá ? Can you understand it 😀?
@@gregorymaldonado7714 en su mayoría bien, pero estamos pasando por algunos problemas como país en este momento.
@@Cam-vg7lb me alegro de que todo vaya bien por allá. Ustedes tienen un gran país . Saludos
I major in second laguage acquisition. input is more important than output.
You should get opportunities to use target lauguage.
imgine how children acquire language, listning first.
I hope you gradually improve your French skill, Keet it up !
Most countries in Europe are not English speaking, but in my experience, people in my age group and younger, almost everyone speaks English fluently. I’m born in the 70s.
well, let’s admit it, also oftentimes the language teachers can’t speak the language well... happened to me in my French class. So since I’m a native German speaker about 90% was in German “about” French, with a few small written texts in French and vocabulary lists and no one who actually spoke to us in french. No one learns a language like this, it’s nearly impossible 🤷🏽♂️
I didn't have the same problem luckily but unfortunately our teacher just had an incredible German accent...
Yeah, I'm a native Spanish speaker and I've been learning English for more than 10 years at school and, to be honest, I've learned most of it by myself. I have French class as well, and it's weird because the teacher sometimes speaks French and then translates things to English and even to Spanish so it's a bit confusing. I had a French teacher when I first started learning and even though I was a total beginner, I learned a lot more with someone who can really speak the language.
In order to speak the language well, you have to practice, learn and relearn constantly. That's why many teachers tend to lose their language skills since they stop learning a language themselves. After some time, they're only slightly better than the students - they can explain grammar rules, they know the vocabulary students have to learn but nothing more. Unfortunately, it happens really often.
I had a horrible thing happen in my career and basically had to start from scratch in my 30s. Lost motivation for teaching and learning about teaching and for learning the language of the country I live in. Life is weird, after a few years of stagnation, I’ve been tiptoeing into animation, which strangely has given me my creativity back and I’m studying animation in Japanese. This video was encouraging. Cheers.
This is why I always had a tough relationship with English while learning it on school! I didn't necessarily hated it but I also didn't really cared about it, mostly because I didn't have anyone to talk to (even both my parents don't know english). It wasn't until I started enjoying reading novels in the language, watching lots of content on CZcams and even making online friends here and there, that I realised english is actually quite important in my life and started to put more effort into it. Great video!
Thank you for sharing your great experience and lesson in terms of learning language~!!
Thanks for your very good explanation. I totally agree with you. I enjoy many of your lessons, Steve.
There is no feedback system in Canadian schools (probably not just Canadian) where the parents may provide their feedback to the teacher. I was horrified when I heard the online French lessons my daughter is receiving from her school. The French teacher sounds completely depressed and unmotivating. No wonder kids do anything but to put this out of their mind as soon as the lesson is over. And the problem is that those teachers keep their places in the system regardless of their performance.
The lack of a feedback system in Canadian schools, the extent to which the teachers union is more motivated to defend their members then to ensure that their students learn, the protectionism of the teachers which prevents innovation, their ideological agenda which they foist on their unsuspecting learners, don't get me going.
@@Thelinguist Thanks, Steve, so true! I wonder if I can do something as a citizen to change the system. Wonder if speaking to my MP would help. It's painful to watch our kids waist their precious time and get dumbed down in this system.
Such a great video. Listened to it twice AND eager to work this into one of my future videos. People NEED this message. Comprehension first, exactly!
Hi Steve we havent seen an updates on your dual language challenge. All great stuff thankyou.
Thanks Mr. Steve for the vídeo. Could you make a next video talking us more about how to emphasize comprehension?
Hi Steve!
De tanto assistir a seus vídeos, fico achando que você é meu amigo de long time.
Big hug!
I enjoy reading French novels edited for intermediates readers. I certainly don't know french grammar backwards and forwards but I do understand what I read and i feel a great satisfaction from it. Steve, you have helped me so very much on my language'-acquisition journey. Again, thank you.
I’ve been studying French for a year and half now and yeah it’s a slower process because in Western Canada, you’re very limited in who you can speak French with.
If you are stuck in B. C. you are going to have hard time locating francophones but search for the tiny fancophone groups They are in every province.
Try ”italki” a app where you can book classes with professional teachers, or book clases with non-professional but engaged community teachers.
But you don't have to spend money-you can just ask in the community for a french language partner. You can publish texts and ask questions as well, and native speakers will correct you for free. Whatever language your native language is, you can correct other people's publications in that language.
Steve you’re inspiring, really. If it weren’t for you and Moses I would have never taken my language learning as seriously as I do today.
True indeed Sir Steve, stay healthy Sir!
Great tips, I 100% agree! It's so sad because it's an opportunity for schools to really get it right in this area.
Back when i was in secondary school we were forced to learn Spanish due to our proximity to South and Central America. Im autistic which is a whole can of worms but the difficulty in language processing combined with general disinterest in those classes lead to me failing all but one or two years of those classes. Now as an older person I've revisited language learning and have decided to pursue German not for any of its utility but out of sheer curiosity. I am at only the most basic level but the knowledge I have now has stuck with me better only because I actually care to learn it.
Where do you live? It's because i'm seeking people to talk in English ,and if you accept 😀
Great! Many thanks
Ce sont des constats pleins de bon sens, et de lucidité.
Merci à vous de nous les avoir fait partager !
These are observations full of common sense and lucidity. Thank you for sharing them with us!
Even I live in Canada but its the opposite i am french and i was learning english in school. I started learning it in grade 3. At first the classes were really bad i was passing but didnt know anything. Then i went to a private school in grade 7 where the level was extremely high and then i failed. I had summer private classes and i was able to learn most of english in 2 months. After that i was always passing english at about 80%. For english as a second language. I think what helped me was that i needed to learn english in order to not be expelled from my school. I was studying very hard for 2 months. I think what really made me succeed was the motivation. I was extremely motivated
Just started watching - didn't know you were Canadian. Cheers!
I’ve been reading a Chinese novel recently and really enjoying it. After seeing your video I’m considering trying to find some kind of Vietnamese content to read even thought that would be a lot harder for me than Chinese.
Succinct video as I have come to enjoy daily Steve. 1988 in Brampton ON I was placed into the first Enhanced Learning Class in Peel region. Our Teacher taught us to sing the Japanese National Anthem in Japanese as we studied feudal histories. Not one parent tried to have any of the educational elements removed. I can still sing most of it today, and never forgot her divergence from
curriculum in my own Language learning. Arigato Steve San.
I practice a little German after 50 years with US Army in Germany. Comprehension is the most important if you can't comprehend you will have a serious deficit in speaking.
Listen, understand and repeat.
I appreciate your comments Steve.
Schools are trying to force languages into kids that have no interest.
I had no interest in french or sport at school, I hated both then and still do . I speak spanish to about B2 and I'm learning Italian , Portuguese and Icelandic now in my own time ( I am 69 and retired ) . It may have something to do with the fact that I have more time , but you can't force stuff where it's not comfortable, schools should realise that. HORSES FOR COURSES !
I’m Canadian and always got 90s on my French work but I can’t speak French to save my life. I remember a lot of random vocabulary but I found they emphasized too much on verbs without giving me any context on how to use it. I can say “ swim” in French but I never learned how to use any of it in a casual conversation. They just kept shoving information that I don’t use in my English let alone in another language. After 6 years of French I’m not fluent at all. I agree we need more comprehension and more material on how to have a conversation versus how many verbs they can throw at us at once.
The surprising thing is that despite the emphasis on grammar in Canadian schools, kids graduate without any ability to speak correctly. They just end up with random words and poor comprehension.
For me the failure is another things when I was young. Now, for me the failure is when I don't try to do something and it does't mater if it is easy or hard or what kind of topic it represent. When I give up and I won't be curious to try something new. My English journal I have started so many time and I have so many ups and downs but still I really believe that I can learn this language. The failure is only when I assume that I can do it something and I give up for start, because I don't want to try. Great topic! The first is believe and the second is being a systematic.
Thankyou very much from Vietnam, my native language is Vietnamese and I've been struggling alots learning other languages, thankyou very much for the advices ❤
You're welcome and we hope to be able to offer Vietnamese at LingQ in the near future.
I couldn't agree more sir...in my country the situatuon is same..in our English learning system we try to teach English during 8 years but just gör pass the test and then the students can't answer any simple question unfortunately..thanks
Hello, I totally agree with you Teacher.
I agree with you if the learning process is enjoyable that makes us keep on doing it.
Great uncle....keep it up...
Very good, always!
amazing steve 👏.
Great Steve!
MasyaAllah Steve. It's crystal clear what I should do now for my children. They have done well in languages in school those languages we read and speak at home. For Arabic, it is something else. There are different goals in school. The school syllabus for Arabic is harder than the ones in the Middle East. Yet, I set the target for my daughter to speak proficiently in 5-10 years. As a result, we expose her to tutors who place great emphasis in speaking and listening. How about school? I have long decided that it is okay if she cannot keep up with the school syllabus. However, her grades do no reflect how well she speaks. She scores very well in her Oral component but that is only a small component of the total score. After listening to you, I must make it my goal for her to achieve comprehension in school. It is hard but achievable than the previous goal the school set up for her. Thank you again!
The same is true in Scandinavia, while we are mostly fluent or well versed in English that is because of our consumption of it since primary school. We can choose to learn another language in middle and high school, if you pick the French in both schools you would be learning it for a total of 5/6 years, even then most can not speak their chosen language.
The key is listening, which Scandinavian kids to a lot of in their childhood, from television and songs.
Obrigado pelas suas comentarios. Eu començe a estudar português no fevereiro deste ano e agora ja posso escrever e escutar algumas coisas sempre que não seja muito rápido. Parabéns!
I already speak english, i have been encouraging my family to go with portuguese and we all have got some of it! Next language will be Italian!
Hi Steve,
I remember when I was in highschool, i was very bad in English, like maybe the last in my class, always get 2/20, because I wasn't interested, didn't knew why is important to know an other language. After a few months, I knew I was going to Florida for my birthday and I was so excited and didn't want to miss a thing so I learned English by myself and in 3 months, 3 hours of training a day, I was able to understand anything, it was insane, my teacher was stunned, I ended up first in the class. All of that because of the interest. Thank you, now I'm learning Spanish because I'm going to move in Barcelona in 4 month, I need to be fluent, already have 10K words in Lingq, great app !
You are the modern Confusious in Sweden, thanks a lot for your teaching.
Here in Russia where I live (I am a USA citizen) all regular schools teach a foreign language. It is required to graduate. I have gone to some classes as a native speaker to engage with the kids. The biggest problem I saw was they were all very very shy. Especially the girls. They were so afraid of making a mistake, and so ashamed if they even thought they did. I have had older people walk up and start speaking fairly good English and sometimes French that they lernt in the Soviet school system. They were very confident. Could it be the age difference? Could it have been something to do with the Soviet education system methods? Could it be just a generational thing? It was very important in the Soviet system to speak publicly. It was drilled into them. That, and there was much more real face to face social interaction when there was no internet. Back then, TV only had lame and repetitive programing, so no one paid much attention to it.
Gosh if only I knew what you are saying maybe 15 yrs ago..I know a vast amount of french vocabulary, quite a good understanding of the grammar, went to night school and classes for so long, read books, yet was never given an opportunity to actually speak it or hear it..I’m now in my seventies and feel it was a waste of time, though I did enjoy learning..thanks Steve for your use words...
To support Steve's school comments: my school started French classes for everyone (grades 4-12) starting with the year after me, so I missed it. But it went so slowly that in my 12th year I joined the top level French class and caught up in weeks, not having studied French before.
As an individual learner (and someone slightly older than Steve), I'm more interested in his personal learning methods. In this video he says he has been studying Arabic 3 years and Persion 2, but he is still learning and not "failing". That is inspiring to me, after 4.5 years of Mandarin study.
Steve's ideas about setting goals and what "failure" means are also useful. Thanks for another great video!
I agree with what you have said, I think that most people who are in charge of schools where students are learning other languages, put a lot of emphasis on how to correct students and test them, and in the end they end up not learning anything. Unfortunately that happens not only in Canada but I think that in every country.
I have to say that it's exactly the same thing for french people about english at school in Québec.
We don't learn the good way... I really learned well my english when i was adult. And i especially improved english while learning chinese. Haha !
Learning a language is a hobby more than a skill for me
Steve, another good video. My question is this: if you consider the amount of known words that a learner knows in a target language to be the best indicator of learner's progress, then should vocabulary tests be used to evaluate the progress of all language learners?
Failure is mostly just a state of mind. I thought I failed at French because I wasn't actively learning it for a while, then I had to use it at work and realised I was able to understand and make myself understood with no issues. I was just a bit rusty for a week or so when using it again, which I associated with failure.
Indeed, focussing on comprehension is the quickest way to make a language enjoyable to engage with. To enjoy films, books, and other media in a language, you don't need to speak or write it! Whereas to have conversations you will need to speak or write in addition to reading or listening; and being able to speak or write well requires one to already have listened and read a whole ton more.
You guided me to the best road on language learning.
I started with spanish when corona started . Pushed myself on how much I could do everyday . It eventually killed my motivation ( grammar exercices and language apps) and I had to figure out a way to make it enjoyable . Now im doing it for a hobby and replaced spanish on my computer and mobile phone . Thought to myself what is the reason im learning spanish ? Well I want to understand it ( main goal is to read the language without effort ) and talk some basic sentences to the villagers on our vacation house near alicante . Now im taking with me spanish through almost all media sources ( video games , series, newspaper, apps ) . The thought of : ‘ It’s OK to not understand everything at the beginning ‘increased the enjoyment of learning . Through this process without even thinking about it I have increased my vocabulary dramatically.
Its all sorts of traps on the Internet how to learn language fast and be fluent for short periode of time . Maybe it works on someone but Don’t push yourself . Make it enjoyable and add it to your daily life .
Thank you Steve . My hunger for language learning has never been so good as it is now . Let the fun continue! 🥳
You just nailed it
Let's be honest, schools, and to a large extent, universities, aren't trying to help you learn a language, they're interested in how you perform at memorization.
I'd go as far as to say that _most_ subjects are that way, and what they're actually testing is your ability to handle large quantities of information in relatively short periods of time, and to have the capacity to acutally put in the work it takes to be _able_ to handle it.
Whether or not you think that's a good thing or not is another question. Maybe that ability/skill is helpful in the workplace, I don't know, it seems like it would be for a lot of jobs.
I agree with you. My gripe was being forced to do lessons in subjects I had no interest in , like sports. And I still can't stand it after 55 years ! Quite frankly I'd rather watch paint drying ! It's that old chestnut ...force it into them, they will do it. Well, I didn't and still won't !
Tests and exams prove nothing. It would be time better spent on just talking the language, encouraging the students to talk of topics that interest them. Memorization is of course necessary to learn languages or any subject, but if you are having a bad day you may well fail an exam. It doesn't mean you've forgotten everything and getting a fail after all that hard work is to be honest " a shit response " !
@Language lover thanks for your response Language lover, but at 69 years I'm not going to do tests. I learn for pleasure. Tests are school days, long behind me now. You don't know the agonies they caused me , but I take your point though I feel that a kind of " soft assessment " is a far better aproach.
You are so brilliant.
I'm one of the typical Japanese who can't speak english well.
Now i major in second lanaguage acquisition, I have been thinking why we don't speak english well.
It's true that we learn foreign laguguage in our school, but time is not enough to acquire language.
As he usually says, we need more input like listening while draving or cooking.
Then, we come to speak target language little bit, we should use that phrase or construction.
If you really wanna hone laguage skill, we can get opportunities to speak, for example, online lesson, talk to myself.
I'm still learner of English, Let's keep studying ;)
2 years in my Spanish class in highschool I didn't achieve much.. and it's not my teachers fault.. she was perfect.. I just had the idea that I needed to pass.. Andi I did.. but I forgot everything a year or two later. In the past year and a half I've taught myself more Portuguese than I've ever learned in Spanish in school BECAUSE I WANTED to learn Portuguese and I'm enjoying it.. I'm not being forced to memorize vocabulary to pass a test or worry about failing and not making it out of highschool.
Some great wisdom here.
As high school student in Turkey, I can tell you that we the Turkish take German lessons, at least "mostly".
I am at one of the most prestigious high schools of my country which is reputed to teach languages very well and when I asked my German teacher :
"What is your mission for the students in German at the end of all four years of high school education?"
Would you like the response?
A2
At least he's being _realistisch_
On a more serious note, expecting to get every single student to develop a deep interest in your subject seems rather far fetched.
Lerne weiter und suche dir das, was du gerne machst beim Sprachen lernen. :)
@@Chrisopsful Ich habe Französisch, Spanisch und Portugäsisch gelernt? Ist es nicht genug mit Englisch und meiner Mutterlich Sprache Türkisch?
4 years. How many hours per week? I'm guessing that, if you do the math, you'll see that the total class time in those 4 years is probably much smaller than you realise. Meaning that the only ones who would realistically get any good, really no matter what you do in class, will be the ones spending considerable time with the language outside of class. This is usually the indicator that all the school bashers leave out: time. Even if you replaced every single class with whatever method you think is the best one, you probably still wouldn't get very far if you don't spend time on it outside of the class.
Yeah I had the false impression my classes would take me oh so far after just a few semesters. No they don't because they meet for so little time each week, and they don't give you much material to learn outside class. Like "do the 20 exercises for pronouns before next class", which are just 20 sentences in which you try to plug the correct pronoun in the blank space. There's just not much investment in a weeks worth of classes.
Of course this is all true but I am trying some methods to speak better. I've started doing a daily journal about things that happen to me or fake conversations that could come up using DeepL and then download the content into lingQ where I can review and practice in French and Spanish. In Louisiana I can find a few people at a local bar that speak some degree of French and there are immigrants from Mexico and Honduras here.
In Hungary, in secondsry school one must learn two foreign languages. One the language, they learned primary school (nowdays english) the second is compulsory (usually german, cause the language teacher shortage). I never have meet someone, who could speak their second language after school. (Sadly many people can't speak any language exept hungaryan)
This makes me think of the common frustrations students have learning Math beyond just Arithmetic. They start getting into Algebra, but rarely see any practical application for what they're learning.
interesting
But algebra has loads of practical application. Engineering, for example.
@@Musicienne-DAB1995 not while they’re learning it. Most students learn the concepts for the tests and quizzes and then forget about them afterward.
I’ve been studying Portuguese for 7 years now and I’ve visited Brazil 18 times but I still can’t converse, read or understand people when they speak. I have to translate everything into English word for word, even the words that I know. I practice every day with my girlfriend who only speaks Portuguese and we’ve been doing it for over 4 years now but I still can’t understand her except for an occasional word. I have classes, read books, use apps, watch movies and videos and other things and spend a lot of time studying but it’s like my brain only works with English. Portuguese words don’t mean anything to me like English words do. I live near Vancouver Washington and can drive up to buy you a beer if you know what I can do to learn. Thanks
Hi Steve, Arab learning Japanese here..
Not sure if you need my moral support but keep at it, Arabic IMO is a bit more difficult than Japanese and Chinese, especially speaking it, there is a british embassy guy on twitter who has done it, you could check him for inspiration if you want.
I look forward for the day when i can speak Japanese and hear you speak Arabic.
I read that only 10% of French immersion students in Canada who stick it out to graduation achieve proficiency in French.
watch TV to build achieve proficiency in French That is what I did Never read a book just TV watching with subs in French
I agree. I am a polyglot. People forgot the basics. Gotta start like a baby in any languages. English speakers and Japanese speakers got problem mainly because of language ego centric mentality. Mostly subconscious and they don't let other languages also they expect other peoples to know their language. I love to learn languages. So I start off like a baby. then I grow up slowly and then watch movies without subtitles and try to understand while I enjoy the movie. I can understand over one dozen languages like this.
Language is fun, people shouldn't worry about grammar and things like that. First speak then after acquire the language well, can learn grammar, reading and writing. Most people fail, mainly because they focus on grammar, reading and writing.
First speak, then learn to read, then write, and then grammar if you truly like to master it. But the day you try to go deep into a language you will be stuck in that language and forget about learning other languages.
I loved it!
I think the best way to hate any language to study it at school. My sister studied French at school, now she can't speak French but she studies English and she speaks quite well. My friend studied English at school, now she hates English and she studies German, she can speak it very well. I didn't use to like English (I studied it at school and at the University) but I'm too stubborn to give up. I started studying it several years ago and now I can speak it pretty well.
I suppose we have too big classes at school for speaking. Our teachers don't have opportunities to give us what they really would like to give. You can't teach speaking if you have 15 - 19 students at class. And for students it's unbearable to study a language for many years and still can't speak it!
Really really it's true. Thanks meanwhile.
Why the spoken language is an indicator of the real level of language proficiency
Only spontaneous conversation can tell the truth about you, especially in foreign languages. While speaking you have no chance to look the word up in a dictionary, you have no chance to think or rethink your ideas. You have to express yourself immediately under time pressure.
Studying helps a lot, but definitely putting what you learn into practice is what makes things really click. As long as you keep on going and you're putting in the work to learn and understand, and you most importantly ENJOY what you're learning then you are most certainly not a failure :)
What would you suggest as activities to put what you know in practice? How to boost outputting?
An example that perhaps illustrates Steve's point about comprehension and speaking happened when I was a teenager. I had taken French (in Ontario) throughout high school. In the summer before grade 13, (I'm dating myself), I was in a 2 week exchange program between my city and a French speaking one in Quebec. I stayed in the home of a boy around my age as he did at my house in coming to Ontario. We could not understand each other, at all, when we spoke our native languages. So, all the time, I would speak French (although very slowly and with quick access to a dictionary) and he would speak English. Needless to say, our communication was not very complex.
A lot of people need to pass exams, for example, the HSK exams. They really do have to concentrate on a set school-like syllabus.
Here's my comment for you Steve Kauffman. You're my freaking hero.
Hi...nice video
As a Canadian, I completely agree. I have also never met a good french teacher, even when I moved to Quebec. So much focus on conjugation you never actually learn how to communicate. I do wish LingQ had Thai.
Thai is coming we have 20 mini-stories done but need more volunteers.
@@Thelinguist is that all? I can get you quite a few, is there a story guide to follow? I'll go check your website.
email me. steve@lingq.com. We will send you the script in English. Many thanks.
When a stated to study English, I thought I would be fluent in 2 years 🥴🤣🤣 I'm not even close to that but I learned the most important thing when you're learning a language: learn how to have fun while you're doing whatever you're doing to learn. It's crucial because you won't get bored or things like that when you're learning. I think my speaking is very basis. Definitely my listening and my reading are way better than my speaking. I know that's a long way to go and one day I hope be fluent in English.
I cannot hear your spoken English of course, but your written English is excellent!
@@user-om2bw1cj1r thanks, bro! I think it's because I practice a lot. I wish I have someone who I could practice my speaking regularly...
"as long as you're learning, you're not failing"
i m canadian raised and had absolutely no interest in learning french as a kid. just the school system didn't make it fun plus the grading system always made me feel terrible and that i was useless at languages. i was turned off at the concept of learning any other languages for another 20 years. . 20 years later, now im picking up chinese and finding it super fun. 4 years after that taking a stab at japanese and finding that also really fun. self studying the asian languages has been a lot of fun. french in school was anything BUT fun. it was a chore and a useless one that that. i also agree, there's really no need to use french anywhere in canada. i've been to quebec more than enough times and English was more than adequate to get by. if you go to japan or korea, or china.. english is rather useless there (unless maybe the major cities). i found out that the hard way :)
Steven I want to ask ,you have exit videos for some languages you left . Is it part of some long term memory method . Bored of it . No drive . Could you please shed light on this and enlighten us the benefits and harms of leaving a language for some time
Agree I learn Portuguese pretty well after two years living in Brazil. People in my country didn't learn after 6 years studying. I think is cheaper moving a season to another country than investing in an institute...lol
I was surprised to discover that quite a few universities on the mainland of Europe teach some of their courses in English. Which, obviously, implies that their students leave school fluent in English.