why is this so hard to sharpen?
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- čas přidán 9. 01. 2023
- Do you find it difficult to turn a hook on a card or cabinet scraper? A friend challenged me to learn how to turn a hook with his method and to do it under 2 min. Mike thinks I can. I don't think I can. What do you think?
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I wish they shipped to Australia.
Mike is right your thinking about it to hard!
stick it in a normal vice and run anything harder than the cabinet scraper along the edge three times - try it - if its not sharp - do it again ... thats it! OMG
@@robertfrost5020 Deep breath, I know, I know..
@@CDWCAULDRON Its a skill - takes time ... chill and yes!!!! take deep breath and try agin :)
Sir, thank you for sharing your video with us. I'm 72 and my father was a buffer so I learned a lot of this stuff when I was young. A trick my grand dad taught dad so I learned it is to take a damp tea towel and lay it on the wood then mist the wood with an iron. Dad tought me to use a steam iron not the old sad iron his dad tought him. What this will do is make all the little fibers stand up so your scrapper will cut them easyer. Your a cool teacher showing stuff as you learn. Impressive. Thanks and God bless.
amen
I struggled pretty hard with this so I watched JKM’s video and just did it until I got it. A couple of tips: 1. round over the sharp corners of your scrapers to make them more comfortable to hold, 2. it’s really easy to get your edge out of straight while filing so use that to your advantage by taking a stroke or two at each end leaving your middle slightly high. That way you’ll always get a good burr and you don’t have to bend it quite as much to get a good shaving. I know that this probably goes against traditional woodworking dogma, but I actually keep one edge of my scrapers polished with no hook. I use that edge as my final surface prep on spindles/tool handles, to break corners/arrises, and to clean up overhangs/epoxy squeeze-out on my marking knives. Point is, just because CZcams woodworkers say you need huge, fluffy curls from your scraper, it doesn’t necessarily mean that any other result is useless or unwanted. Sorry for the long comment, love your videos, keep doing what you’re doing, man!
Thanks!
I thought you should be looking for a sort of dust and small shavings together. Otherwise it’s not really different from planing so I think you’re right. Isn’t card scraping sort of shearing off the fine “hairs” left from sanding?
For beginners, starting with a plain 90° jointed scraper is a great place to start. A crisp 90° will get them going and they’ll learn a process for themselves as they use them. I love my accu-burr (have 2 of them), and still use the old trusty carbide rod too but believe my process will continue to develop throughout my woodworking life. Admittedly, I’m a 95% handtool woodworker, so I’m far more involved/intimate with handling, sharpening, knowing edges. I can definitely see why a power tool or heavily electric hybrid woodworker would struggle with a card scraper. In this video, just seeing you pick up, hold, and use the b@st@rd file; I and any other handtool only guy can recognize just how unfamiliar you are manipulating handtools. That’s not a bust, it’s too be expected, and would be know different than if you were to watch me setting up an offset bearing/bushing router job. One thing that jumps out to my eye immediately is that you like to go back and forth with files, stones, jigs, etc…. Sharpening can be effective doing so, but jointing and burnishing usually produce the best results using a single direction. Also don’t Willy nilly make your strokes, know how many you made, so that after this round, you know by way of feedback what to do differently the next until you dial in for best results. Finally, very little pressure is required when drawing/burnishing. I’m really think the #1 reason folks struggle with preparing scrapers is they are pressing far too hard. Thanks for the video and I’m not bashing, just giving my perspective. Prepare methodically and ease up on the pressure 👍 in the handtool world, repetition, practice, and just doing things organically is a HUGE part of how we improve. It’s hard to expect a power/hybrid woodworker to just pick this (or any) skill up right away. Sure there are those that will find one or two things that come quickly to them, but sharpening (et al) in the handtool world is a life long journey. So for a power tool guy to just wish to exploit the amazing uses of a card scraper without being immersed in that world continuously is asking a lot already. I think you’re doing great personally. Again, do this methodically so you can actually make super minut adjustments and ease up on the burnisher pressure.
Just my 2¢
Only one thumbs up available, but you've picked my brain 😀
you shared that excellently - no talking down, just very helpful facts.. and you have helped me, certainly.
Unless the wood has already been scraped it's normal to get dust at the start. The surface usually doesn't start out smooth enough to make thin curls.
You should be getting shavings on the first stroke.
I’ve found this to be true sometimes even with a smoothing plane set up for a very fine shaving and with an iron sharp enough to shave with, particularly if there’s some tearout to clean up.
I have also found that while I usually get dust on softwoods like pine, I can get shavings from oak
If the wood grain is standing up like on a hardwood cutting board it will only produce dust as well ! 😅
The process that works for me is to strike scraper edge flat with a burnisher. Then use the burnisher on an angle several times. This creates a tiny sharp hook on the scraper edge which results in shavings. There are holders keep the card flexed and at the correct arc
This is VERY common in woodworking, whether it’s scrapers, plane blades, knives, etc. Mostly it’s because people learn woodworking how’s, but not the whys. I recommend anyone getting into woodworking unplugged to check out Leonard Lees “The Complete Guide to Sharpening” which teaches you the science of sharpening, the differences in stones, and how to test sharpened. I am unaffiliated with the publisher, this is just a book I recommend to EVERYONE.
I need this. thank you. Kyle
I would never expect any beginner to get an edge on a scraper until shown how to. It's at the same level in apprentice training of sharpening any edged tool. First, we learn how to get the edge square and true, that might start with draw filing or even grinding to start with, then forming that perfectly square edge on stones to remove all burrs - also lightly round corners to avoid gouging work in the future, although you should be bending the scraper so it doesn't present the whole edge to the work all at once.... Then we learn to polish or hone the edges - all genuinely sharp blades get there by understanding a cutting edge is simply the meeting of surface planes so that is the key. Then you roll the edge using a ticketer (basically a triangular file but with no teeth and polished instead) at about 10 degrees or a special vice mount tool with a hardened rod or wheel in it at just the right angle. Kunz make a very good tool for this. I suggest having a small hook is better than forming a really big hook. You need to lean on that ticketer hard, you are deforming hardened steel and you need to put some grunt into it. Personally, I like the hand ticketer better as apart from the regular ones I make all sorts of shaped scrapers including swan neck etc. and often make special little ones out of old band saw blade bits to suit a particular detail job at the time. Five minutes with a scraper beats any amount of sanding - if you finish with a scraper after sanding you will get that next level finish, critical for french polish. You don't need to get plane shavings out of a scraper - the whole point is they are a very fine plane, able to cut fractions of wood cells. They are a fine finishing tool and the dust/shavings you get are not relevent as long as you are getting that surface scraped down just right. If you use the scraper in a shearing motion you will get more plane like shavings, that is you angle the scraper as well as bending it You can get all sorts of different blade thicknesses from very light to very heavy. You need to set your hook according to that thickness - very light flexible scrapers only need a very small hook, big chunky ones a lot more of a hook. When you are burning blisters on your thumbs because of the heating up of your scrapers you know you are getting into some serious work... I have at least a handful in a pile ready to go, so I can swap around and let them cool while doing a table top or panel. Some I sharpen all around - but that won't work unless you have the heavy callouses to cope with not getting cut yourself. Like chisels, planes etc. we used to do sharpening of everything at once in the morning, then hopefully you would get through the day with only touch ups. Apart from chisels, that's as needed and when carving can be 25% of your time... Once you have your scrapers set, you can generally re-form the hook several times before stoning or filing is required. How often that happens will depend on how abrasive the work is...
Couple of things
Take more deliberate consistent strokes with the file across the complete edge, not the back and forth motion. The file really only cuts in one direction. Buy stopping in the middle the edge isn't completely flat and even.
Second, you might be putting to much of a burr on the edge. You can actually start to fold it under. Try once or twice with the acuburr thing.
Last Lee Valley tool makes a very awesome card scraper holder that makes it easyer to use the scraper
this was my hunch! I'll try it. thank you.
You saw exactly what I saw with his file. I would expect the kit maker would have a video demonstrating the use of this kit. If so I am sure the proper techniques would have been in it like "the proper stroke for file use".
Correction regarding filing techniques:
Yes and no..
yes, files cut in one direction
no, it’s not a must to strike one way only
Some people find it easier to maintain the correct angle by striking both ways without lifting the file
Killing a myth:
Files get damaged striking both ways. No! They don’t!
Instead of arguing by presenting evidence, the quick version is to send you over to Jason at Fireball Tools and his YT-channel His approach on testing stuff is very close to water tight scientific. Watch his file testing!
Kind regards
Anders
Retired mechanical engineer
Sweden
Thank you!
Oh yeah, that hurt to see the file being used in the forward and back direction. Just cut forward, lift and return. Repeat.
Have been sharpening my dozens + scrapers for decades....a fine file, file card and hardened screwdriver shank is all you need. It is important to keep the file clean, some scrapers are softer than others and will load up the file over time. You can use your bench vise to hold either the scraper or file. I usually vise the file and draw the scraper across it lengthwise to flatten and then use a scrap block to support the scraper to remove the old hook. You can also remove the hook before flattening by drawing the burnisher up flat against the scraper. It's critical to keep both flat and square edges (all four) and not to round them. I used to use an oil stone to polish, but not really needed with a good clean file. By trapping the file in the vise I can quickly set the edge while using or reestablish a hook, literally takes only a couple of seconds to do this. Burnish the edge quickly flat, then skewed. I couldn't tell you the angle or pressure as it varies a depending on how thick your scraper is and how aggressive you want to cut. Each of my scrapers has a personality and it takes a little while to learn it and know how to get what I want from it. All in all, it literally takes less than a minute if you keep one in good shape, and that's for all four edges. Once you get it, you'll be able to adjust the hook on the same scraper so when you flip it, you have the same hook, but when you turn it, you get a less aggressive hook. You can set this however you want, I personally do diagonal edges the same-ish.
There is a comment down below too by a James Ervin about hardened edges left after the machining process. This makes a lot of sense. Scrapers are "soft" spring steel but they need to be able to curl a consistent edge. This is only possible if your burnisher and file is harder than your scraper and the scraper has consistent hardness along the edge. I guess I don't think about that much with some well used scrapers. But as I mentioned each one has a personality of its own. Note too that burnishing will harden the edge as well that is why it is desirable to set the burnish with one pass, and then set your hooks on opposing edges with one pass each as well. It takes practice. This is experiential, try different pressures, different angles. You'll get it, don't give up. Good luck..
Your candour is refreshing. I'm just starting and have watched dozens of CZcams videos. Sadly, many edit out their mistakes, don't admit to any, or they've been woodworking for decades.
One of the reasons to use the file is to assure the edge is completely straight, so for the last few passes, hold the file in complete contact (the length of the fie is along the edge of the scraper). This assures that when you go to the grit paper, the whole edge is in contact.
Yes!! Spot on!! The Rockler tool (And just about everybody's homemade versions) holds the file in the "long" direction in an attempt to get the edge straight/flat. But, in my opinion, the Rockler tool lacks the length/surface area needed and will rock too much on the starts/stops and remove just a bit more material there. Then, using the marker to show that side is polished, it might take a bit more sanding to remove all of the marker because there's now a slight curve. We're talking thousandths of an inch or less here, but the hook isn't much bigger. But this is a different process than the traditional way of drawing the hook then turning it, the method I use with varying degrees of success, but I've come to learn that all cabinet scraper stock is not created equal. Some is softer so the hook forms more easily, but it also wears quickly. Other stuff is really hard and tough, so it takes more pressure to form the hook. If people have trouble, they may consider tying another brand of card scraper stock.
I am just being as a woodworker, and I really appreciate you sharing your learning journey with us. You see all these beautiful projects and it feels insurmountable the techniques and tools that all have to come together to make a decent project, so seeing you learn with us really helps make the craft feel more approachable and communal, which I think most of us can really appreciate. So thanks for making this, and sharing. Looking forward to all of your future projects and videos.
At end: a student of mine just 2 days ago saw me using a card scraper to strip the bark off a tree (we were making a walking staff). I gave him one but after 10 minutes he asked for a different tool and said “I’m just not having the same amount of purchase as you with this tool.” I tried to help him but we got nowhere. Thank you for making this video. I have shared it with the student and eagerly await feedback.
Awesome!
stripping bark is best done with a draw knife. card scrapers are best for very fine material removal. larger material like tree bark is best suited for a draw knife
@@justinmclean5778 wrong. Draw knife does not remove all the bark and using a card scraper on green wood after initial debarking with a draw knife will leave you a buttery smooth and clear surface
I am glad you found a way to get a scrapper that works. One thing to add to your mix, you will want to file it now and then (perhaps every four or so reforming of the burr) as the metal work hardens and becomes hard to form a burr. That is also the reason most folks have a hard tome with a new card scrapper, the punch process creates a work hardened edge that is reluctant to roll over like softer metal. The initial work with the file removes that work hardened portion and the burr is easier to roll. Good luck. Once you are working with a card that has had this work hardened area removed, you will find you can get a burr by hand easily and perhaps much easier than your first attempts with a scrapper that was not ready to to hard metal.
Thank you for that. Makes sense. It’s getting easier.
Sometimes simply altering the angle of the scraper is the key to shavings you are looking to create.
Great content. I think we all start to fall down the rabbit hole though. Always looking for gadgets and devices to do a task better or faster. I’ve made scrapers from cheap $5 handsaws from the big box stores. Now that you know the basics, you could probably do away with the jigs and get away with just a file and using a screwdriver with a hardened shaft. I was taught that after filing the edges down to burnish the side of the scraper over the edge and then burnish the edge back over to the side. Hope this helps someone out there!
Kudos for not hiding your mistakes. No, seriously. I'm sure the temptation must be enormous but thanks for keeping them in. I learn much more from seeing where things fail rather than from where things to flawlessly.
Mike's right, just takes practice &patience your first go. Don't feel bad, been trying to get this right for months. Your not alone
Great video and don’t be hard on yourself. It’s something I didn’t really get to begin with when I was young and trying to help my dad in his cabinet making business. So with that, I think both results in the video are good enough. Speed and repeatability were the things I’ve learned in 30 years. Perfection is the killer of progress, don’t forget. 😊
Thank you Strawbyte! Big fan of your 3D printing stuff. Super inspiring. Also getting the hang of the scraper!
My shop teacher in trade school was in his late 70s and he taught a whole class of us dimwits a simple 4-step process in 5 minutes ... totally confident you can learn it too!
Addendum: I noticed a clear decline in quality in both, the steel (scraper) and the tools to create the burr over time. *The stuff from the 80s and 90s works great - with stuff you find in stores it has become much harder!*
I was in the same exact boat that you were in. I was able to get a good burr occasionally. At those time I was able to really understand the value of a good scraper. However I couldn't achieve the same burr consistency. Frustrating was my main achievement. I purchased the Veritas system and my consistency has improved dramatically. I do agree with everything you have said and done. I watched I don't know how many videos and every single time I was confident that I was going to achieve good results.
Love your videos and all the effort you put into the storyline and real-life outcomes and tips about products. One of the best in this content category, thank you and keep up the great work.
So glad you came out with this video! Just got my card scraper over the weekend and I’ve been watching videos on CZcams nonstop! I think I’m gonna try your method with a little bit of what J-Katz does (I really like his little jig he made for his bastard file).
Been a big fan of you for a while, keep up the great, honest videos!
I just subscribed today. You're honest videos and approach are refreshing and informative. You've come a long way in a quick amount of time. Keep it coming!
thank you Klay! welcome aboard!
Great job bud. You help a lot of other folks struggling w the same things!
The struggle is real, Drew! I can get the scraper sharp once, but as it dulls, I have to go through the process a couple times to achieve shavings again. It's very frustrating.
Oh and I am probably better than you.... 😁
Edge prep is a key, give a little more attention to getting the edge "perfect". less pressure down with the burnisher and a few more strokes. I struggled like you and then I had the eureka moment and had no problem since. Fo me it was not turning the hook so far over(hence the less pressure down on the burnisher) When you turn the hook too far over you get the "kinda shavings" you were seeing. Great channel keep it up!
thank you!
hahaha. I know that avatar, and the brilliant scene it's from~!
Great video - thanks for taking the time and effort to make it. I now (finally) can make a decent hook on my card scraper!
I was introduced to scrapers 35 years ago and was shown I could use a nail set or a screw driver to roll the edge. Then I bought a Veritas scraper burnisher and remember having success with it. Used again a short while ago with poor results. You’re right about the learning curve, like the rest of me my curve’s started to droop a bit.
Thanks for the video that was an awesome display and explanation of how to sharpen the card scraper. It even gives me hope.
I just ordered a set of scrapers yesterday, so you dropped this video at the perfect time. Thank you for sharing this because I would probably have trouble getting mine sharp also. I'll order this as well. Great job!
Wow!
thanks man...really well done...appreciate the humble and supportive attitude
Awesome video Drew! Enjoyed all 20 minutes man. Thank you for leaving all the parts in even if it exposes you aren't perfect. Also big respect points for throwing Paul Sellers in as one of "the best creators". He kept the wood working passion alive for me when I didn't have it in myself. Anyways. Enough rambling. Loved the video man. Keep it up! 100K here we come! Oh also. My card scraper ain't too sharp either. But I've learned a couple new things to try!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video, I picked up a cheap scraper, it's okay, not the best steel, so I made my own from a couple of old handsaws, different thicknesses, because I could. Prepping those pieces of saw blades, getting them straight, on all adjacent surfaces was a pain, mostly because it was all done by hand tools, but I got there. I've watched multiple "how to" videos and experimented with most techniques and even burr creation. This method you show varies slightly from many techniques, but it obviously works, it's a keeper. Side note: I played around with creating a perfect 90 degree edge, very crisp, no hook just to see if it would do the final finish glossy scrape, it does. Got the idea from James Hamilton (Stumpy Nubs) when he took an old chisel and removed the cutting edge to slightly square it off, makes an excellent glue removal tool and will scrape as well. I did the same with an old plane blade, easy and effective.
I'm siding with Mike. I don't expect anything from you, I simply believe in you. I'm a beginner myself and I know how hard it is and can be, however persistence is key. Good job on your videos, keep up the good work. Happy building 😁
I have no idea why but no matter how many times and how careful I am, I always get a good side and a bad side of my scraper. I've tried Rob Cosman and Paul Sellers tutorials and still to this day cannot seem to get a hook on each side of the edge. Kudos to you for sticking with it and not just using the "magic of CZcams" to pretend you had good results!
All you need is one side good. How many sides are you using at a time?
Might I suggest trying to placing the burnischer so to it will stroke the edge?
So start (looking from behind) right side, top of burnischer pointing slightly up and forward. And pulling back on the left side but now burnischer pointing down and forward.
It's more like stroking and "rolling" the edges to form a hook.
Start at a shallow angle i.e. lower than 5 degrees and make the third and forth stroke at 5 degrees.
Nice video mate and good of the guy to send you the box. I've been using and sharpening scraper for about 30 years and all I use is a very fine oil stone and the shank of a screwdriver. Cabinet scraper and American cabinet scraper are a little different and produce different shavings. Don't give up and keep them coming.
I had a hard time with this too. I had to rewatch the various videos a couple of times, and try many many times before it finally clicked. I think a part of it was actually in the using of it as well as getting it sharp. Angle of attack, the amount of bend you put in it and the downward pressure all play a part in getting the kind of shavings you're looking for. I actually bought an old Stanley #80 at one point figuring if that thing worked well, I could give up on the card scraper. Well, it does work VERY well but it also somehow gave me another clue as to making the card scraper work. So I revisited that and finally got it to where I can get good shavings and more importantly an excellent finish on the wood. I'm 66 and the card scraper can be hard on you hands (especially the thumbs) if you have a bunch of scraping to do so I'll reach for the #80 as a rule. There are times when the 80 is too big and doing it manually is the only option so I'm glad I can make it happen either way. It's a matter of having more options which is always a good thing.
Good video BTW. I wish I'd seen this one when I was still struggling with it. 😉
Fantastic! Another one of my favorite woodworking videos. A 20 minute infomercial for the latest Taylor Toolworks product!!
Loving this space more and more. Good pace, calming voice, nice editing... obviously good content as well! Great job! 🙂
Thanks so much! 😊
I am in the group with you in that I have never been able to get good sharpening results on a cabinet scraper. I recently received and Accu-Burr for xmas. I have to say that in early trials, it has been a miracle. On my first attempt, I got really good results in sharpening my scraper. I still have a lot to learn, but it seems the Accu-Bur is really helpful for a beginner with these scrapers.
That is awesome!
I also have been struggling. Thank you for your honest video. It helped a lot!
thank you
I really appreciate you taking the time and detail to make this video in particular. I like that little vise and especially I like the little magnetized handles, oh and the two ruler deal.
Glad it was helpful!
May have been commented on but. . . I also had a terrible time sharpening a card scraper. Three things really helped me 1) get a Good card scraper- LieNielsen - made a huge difference 2) use WD -40 it’s not as thick and the burnisher can completely remove the old burr and easily create a new one 3) ditch the file it takes way too long to remove the file marks. Put the scrape on edge, hold against a square block of wood and use a coarse and fine diamond stone. Hope this helps. Great video.
Exelent topic, I had no idea how to sharpen my card scraper but after watching you’re video I’ve gained the confidence to try and now have tools that will take the stress off
I have liked and subscribed. I've not been able to get a good hook on a card scraper to date. Maybe now? Thanks for the info and the honesty.
Thank you
Seriously, that vice block turned me on using a cabinet scraper more often than being frustrated by it. Jonathan Katz-Moses showed almost the same thing a few years ago (and had free plans and hardware list - although the plans were basically "cut two blocks of wood and drill some holes." But definitely worth the effort if you are having difficulties. Worth looking on his channel for his video about tuning up a cabinet scraper. Very informative as well.
i guess you skipped the part where I showed his video
@@wittworks dang. Must’ve had a stroke. Regardless, this technique ended my frustration.
Traditionally the scraper is just guided by a square block. You place the block on the hone then place the face of the scraper on the perpendicular face of the block. Then the block is held fixed and the scraper is slid back and forth. You should kind of shuffle the block around so you don't cut slots into your hone.
Great video, Drew! I do not have a card scraper yet, and did not even know they had to be sharpened or needed a hook. I thought it was just a flat surface that scrape glue away! This was extremely informative and helpful for when I do get a card scraper. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Card scraping is an obscure woodworking method. It is different than plain old scraping.
Cabinet maker all my working life and it took me years to master sharpening a cabinet scraper. You’ll get there! Love the little vice, I’ll be making one! Cheers from the UK
Thank you 🍻
You are right.
Thank you for making this video! I feel the exact same way. In fact, the last time I was in the shop, I ran into this issue and it kind of killed all my momentum in the shop altogether.😢
thank you
Nice video, I take medicine for what you have...LOL
For me, I use a one of my diamond sharpening plates to make my edge flat (and maybe touch it up every ten or so burnishing sessions) after that. I do all four side of the scraper.
After that, I toss the scraper in my Irwin 6.5" woodworking vice and a 6" SS ruler as a gauge to clamp it proud by that thickness. I use a burnishing rod or a round screwdriver blade to (about five or six strokes) to make the edge wider than the thickness of the scraper.
Then I raise the scraper up in my vice so it's about .25" proud of the top of the vice. I place the burnishing rod squarely on the edge of the scraper, then tilt the rod until it touches the edge of my vice (wooden insert actually) and roll the edge over with about five or six strokes, or until I am happy with the amount of hook, then do the other side of the scraper the same way. As mentioned before, I do all four sides of the scraper, so it lasts longer and helps me reach tight spaces.
For me, I am not that interested in shavings vs dust, because by the time I use the scraper, I am removing very little material, so dust is fine with me.
Interestingly I have noticed, almost everyone I see use a scraper, bends it into a curved shape when using it. Personally, I find that it makes cupped shape in the middle portion of my project. I tend to support the middle rear portion of the scrapper to minimize the bending and find that the end result is a much flatter surface. But that's just my experience and I am probably using it incorrectly.
The bottom line for me is, when I get to scraping (not - removing finish scrapping) but end product scrapping, I am removing very little material and am not particularly concerned with producing shavings or dust, I just want it very smooth and flat. For instance, Ilike the inside corner of a jewelry box, that I am not able to reach with sandpaper.
Anyway, I am glad you found a way that works well for you and again, great video sir.
Mark Nicholson (Retired)
Former, US Army - EFMB,
Combat Medical Specialist
I get the best results when I'm not manhandling the scraper while using it. At times I even use a scraper one handed (especially on rounded surfaces.) Light touch, barely bent, adjust the scraper angle to the wood and the push direction until it's most effective (each hook and piece of wood can be different). When it works it's really a slicing motion and takes very little effort/pressure. I burnish several times (8-10) between filing and usually use the shank of a drill bit to burnish (any smooth, round, HARD surface will do.)
I have faith in your friend's faith in you!
I believe in you Mike!
Those who say they can’t, and those who say they can are both right.
But I think you got this 💪🏼
When I get a cabinet scraper I will know how to get the hook. Thanks Drew and thanks to Mike as well. Yes I understand the band aide joke. I have one from you!
Thank you for sharing your experience with the card scraper as I too have had similar experience. I believe now I have completely solved my problem after viewing Mat Cremona's CZcams presentation ("Card Scraper Sharpening and Use - Ask Matt #16"). I suggest that you view segment (13:10) if you haven't seen Mat's presentation. I discovered that with the most highly polished edge and minimal hook angle, I am successful in creating the finest of shavings. After polishing, create the hook angle with the lightest of burnisher pressure while securing the scraper in a vise. I experimented with creating an optimum hook angle by counting the number of burnishing strokes followed with testing the scraper until I arrived at achieving satisfactory wisps. Many times I created a satisfactory hook with only 3 very light burnishing strokes. I don't know what the final hook angle is (less than the recommended 5 deg?) but it doesn't matter if the desired results are achieved. My No. 80 cabinet scraper has never performed better too since this discovery. Best wishes................
Siding with Mike. I also suck at sharpening scrapers, but I get them eventually. Straight scrapers are much easier for me, but I mostly used curved scrapers. Can't wait to see Mike's method!
Drew, honestly the only thing I'd say is each stroke you take, whether it's the file, the sand paper, or the burr tool, slow down, make single, smooth, slower strokes, end to end. That'll help keep the edge flat and straight. "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." Give it a try. Slow down, straight, full strokes end to end, lift completely, take it back to the beginning end, go again.
thank you! I was thinking that!
I felt the same way especialy with the bastard file. if you "pull" the file backwards you roll cut
Nicely done. Speed and accuracy will come with practice. Having the ability to sharpen chisels, irons, scrapers, etc. makes them "your tools." When they become your tools, your confidence will increase, and your work will get better. Nice nod to Paul Sellers.
Wow this will help me 👏finally i will be able to sharpen the dreaded scraper , i have watched so many vids on this card scraper never could get a hook, this will def help,Thanks Godbless
That was me! I think this method will help you.
That was very cool of Mike to send you that!
Agreed!
It works! 🤗. I’ve had cabinet scrapers for years and like you I couldn’t figure out the “proper” way to hone them. I purchased all the necessary pieces and made myself a jig. (Purple Heart) I tried it today and ended up with curled maple shavings. Wonderful feeling. Thank you so very much. 👍
Liar.
Thanks for the video, and really thanks for being honset. I really appreciate it. Especially with something so ''mystical'' and elusive like a scraper 😅.
I can tell from my experience, that I had a really hard time trying to sharpen it, and I was personally instructed by THE great Paul Sellers...
Anyway, some day I decided that I am going to figure this out.
I took my time with the file, with the stones, and with the burnisher. Did it really slow and accurate.
And in about non third attempt I started to get nice shavings. Just like those pros in youtube.
I am still honing my card scraper capabilities, but it became one of my goto tools, now that I cab sharpen it well
And then, entered the cabinet scraper 😂😂😂
But really, those are wonderful tools. You will find sand papers quite redundant when you master them, and frankly. M the finish is way better, and there's no dust and noise. Win- win- win situato really.
At this "pause" moment I am totally with you!
Much needed for me! I can sharpen scrapers but takes way to long! Ordering now. Keep up the good work!
I was a cabinet maker many years ago and would periodically go back to trying to sharpen a scraper; using, if I remember correctly, instructions from Fine Woodworking magazine. I failed every time. Going to try again, thanks for making me feel not so alone.
we can be in a club together!
10:35 - I am a welder and I know that you are making a "mushrooming" of the edge. I also know that if you don't have the same pressure all the way through, the effect will vary and be inconsistent. Pressing as hard as you think you can get away with at the start and moving slowly but confidently should give the best results. Don't treat it like wood or aluminium, this is a steel plate, it can take a beating. Max pressure is allowed.
I have been sharpening mine in the vice and running the side of a chisel down the edge a few times. Takes seconds 👍🏻😀
Mike is right.
I prefer using polished marble over glass. It is heavier and has less chance of sliding. You can get it cheap to free if you know anyone who does kitchen breakdowns or even contact companies that make counter tops. Most of the time, you can get off cuts for free or really cheap. I have a few different ones that I use for different grits of sandpaper. I have them in a locking rotary jig next to my work bench. I have them held in place with an integrated vice system so I can take them out if need be, though I normally only take them out when changing the sandpaper or if I need to do wet sanding with them.
I like that idea
@Wittworks Thanks. I can't say I came up with the marble idea as a teacher of mine back in high school 20+ years ago had shown it to me, but the rotational holder I came up with after a few months of getting tired of having them sitting in different drawers and always having to pull them out and put them back in. This way, I could leave them on the stand and use them there for the most part.
First, I think you are one of the best at creating wood working videos. I am a carpenter . I can understand you totally and you present it an interesting way. I have to admit I have NO IDEA what a cabinet s raper IS , or how it’s to be used.. ?? Teach me
A card scraper is a tool used for scraping the surface of wood smooth. It's kind of interchangeable with what you'd do with sandpaper. But sanding and scraping are different. Sanding is scratching and scraping is cutting. What's going on is you're making the edge of the scraper perfectly square. Then once it is you draw out the face edge corners. You pull the steel with the burnishing tool so it forms a microscopic U shape. Finally you turn those burrs you've pulled into hooks. Then you present the scraper to the wood at an angle where a hook cuts into the wood. You usually bend the card a bit in the process crosswise. It's all a bit of a parlor trick really but can be useful if you can manage to get it to work. If you have an old dull hand saw you are willing to sacrifice you can cut it up into scraper cards. That's traditionally where scraper cards come from. The real tricks are making an edge perfectly square then figuring out how to draw a burr and turn it. Some people use screwdriver shanks. But sometimes they're just not hard and smooth enough. I polished an old round file and it makes a good burnishing tool.
@@1pcfred kinda ironic.,my whole career I would file the burr off anything I sharpened . Now it’s what I need to cut with 😆
@@adgieem1 It all depends how you file what you end up with. The quality of burrs varies too. Others here are claiming the burrs they can create with files are good enough to scrape with. The problem with sharpening is results can be subjective in nature.
I struggled similarly with the sharpening but I think using one properly is 2nd dimension to effective shavings. Angle of approach and how much bend you put on it.
Normally I don't get baited to comment, but let's do this - I think Mike is right and you can do it in less than 2 minutes, because you already tried to do it using many other methods that failed and that should give you at lot of lessons that you may be even not aware of. Now with some instructions - and I think there will be his instructions, if he is confident that you will do it
I love scrapers. The colour of the Hickory reminds me of Parmesan cheese. I have to wonder how this would work on air hardened parmesan!! Great video.
thank you - nice inspirations
Thanks for the info!
For finish scraping I look to achieve the fine shavings you got from your first two sharpenings. If I’m trying to remove material like flush up some joints or epoxy then I try to get a more aggressive burr to take thicker shavings off. Well done and glad you found a system that works for you 👍🏻
At the break: I think Mike is right. With proper explanation of geometry you should be able to do it. I have faith in you (and Mike’s confidence)
I think there is also an optimum angle, scraper to wood, that might yield the shavings you're looking for.
I agree 100 percent with your frustration .I have been a woodworker for over 30 years and still cant properly sharpen card scraper
You're definitely not alone. I'd be happy to have gotten the results you did.
I've gotten better at it since! The accu burr is the real deal.
I'm pretty convinced that cabinet scrapers are the woodworking equivalent of a snipe hunt. Maybe they made sense when you were cutting wood with a saw made from beaver's teeth, joining it together with homemade hide glue, then rubbing some tallow into the surface as a finish? These days I've yet to find anything they do that couldn't be done faster and easier with either a sander, hand plane, or chisel. I managed to get one scraper sharpened very well using the Veritas Scraping Set from Lee Valley; their Veritas Variable Burnisher was the real key. In the 20 years since I did the first sharpening, I haven't used the scraper enough to need to resharpen it 😆
thanks for sharing
A scraper should be able to out perform sanding. But getting a scraper to perform well is a bit of a trick to do. So not everyone is going to be able to find the truth in the first statement I made.
I had this exact problem, owned a burnisher that was hard to master and moved to the accu-burr. Still had difficulty, until yesterday. The 3 cards I had were from a great, small tool company, I could get hooks on both sides, but it never translated to getting good curls.
So I went and did what any sensible person would do and threw money at the problem. Purchased a 2 pack from a high end tool maker. Got them 2 in yesterday, hit them with the accu-burr about 10-15 times and finally have great results. I can't tell you how many hours I spent trying to get the original 3 cards to work.
I've made many of these from old hand saws ,the keen edge I use a high quality file!
It would be great if someone could do a tutorial explaining how to sharpen and use those curved scrapers that come with many sets.
I agree
Paul Sellers? I would be surprised if the legend didn't have one up. He does have a sharpening scraper one.
I side with you--but only because I can't sharpen my card scraper either, despite many attempts. I have, only one or two times, succeeded in getting shavings off my card scraper, as opposed to sawdust. Good luck. Okay. I watched to the end and I see that you succeeded. Congratulations. I have been wondering whether there are card scrapers of differing hardness. I do everything right, or so it seems, but I have a lot of trouble getting the hook. Maybe because I'm using a screwdriver as a burnisher or, more likely, my technique needs improving.
I also gave up on my card scraper for the same reason. Maybe I will give it another shot now.
You should! The accuburr worked better for me than a burnishing rod
I use my Ryobi disc / belt sander's belt with fine grit to prepare the edge, and then use an old car engine valve as a rod, stick it in my drill press, and use an angle grinder with a thin disc to cut grooves into the valve stem whilst spinning. With the valve head cut off and file handles knocked into the valve stem ends I have a burnishing tool that works exceptionally well. Only have to re-burnish when it gets blunt, and do not have to go to the belt sander often. OK, I am not a purist, but it works for me, and is quick as a wink.
I think Mike is going to be right. Haven't used a scraper in a long time but then again I'm still a beginning woodworker trying to get into it more since I'm retired. I made a home made one back then and accidentally sharpened it twice. I'd love to see Mike's version so I can intentionally do it and add it to my tools.
Yep, cut my first one down from a 5 1/2" or whatever it was circsaw blade. works as well as the one I bought, but too stiff to bend much.
The smoother the wood the better the curls.
That being said, the curls you are getting in this video are very much correct
Thank you
For me the moment it clicked was when I finally sucked it up and bought a carbide burnisher. I had tried using a screwdriver but was never able to get a workable burr, but I guess the harder steel really just does the trick. Before trying carbide too I will say you can actually get a workable scraper just by honing the corners to 90 degrees and not rolling the burr over. It sounds like it shouldn't work but that's what I ended up doing before trying carbide. It doesn't work as good as a proper burr, but it sure beats the frustration of never getting the burr right.
I have watched all those videos in the past. Could put a decent edge on a scraper, but love the two ruler trick!!!
Oh man. I have always struggled. In fact I was about try for the 4th or 5th time today to get a better edge on my scraper but gave up before I even started. Couldn’t deal with the disappointment. But now I’m gonna give it another go.
For 2 weeks I have watched every video on cabinet scrapers and no bueno. Sawdust and sweat is all I get. Mike is wrong, you are right.
Yes man I'm no good at sharpening these either but I'm looking into the system you used seems easy and cheap. Thanks for all the work you do for this community.
I use two pieces of paper, any handy clamp with any two pieces of scrap. Do the same thing to prep the surface. I do it on my table saw table with a sheet of 600 grit . drop the scraper in a tail vice and use a screwdriver shaft (not chromed. has to be a smooth bare steel rod).
can do this with curved scrapers too. just use the dull scraper as a template to route a couple pieces of scrap. Sand them down so the scraper edge is proud. then do the process. for new scrapers, take a 1/64th or more off. The factory edge doesn't want to curl but if you sand that off, burnishing gets easier.
You made it look so easy
I think Mike is right, you can do it!
I sure hope Mike is right! If he is I might be able to sharpen mine after viewing this as well.
There's an old saying "If you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right" . Now, I'm here because I've just become quite frustrated working to sharpen my new cabinet scrapers, so I'll agree with you that it's not as easy to just pick up from watching people as some folks say. But - I'm pretty sure that once you find the feel for what it is supposed to be, it's not that hard to repeat. You can't get feel from video, and a large portion of sharpening is a matter of feel.